Serato Software Feature Suggestions

What features would you like to see in Serato software?

Auto Beatmatch

Illuminatty 10:47 PM - 13 March, 2008
*Let the flames begin*

This actually wasn't my idea, as I'm against it personally.
But a friend of mine (who uses Traktor Scratch) says
"DJing isn't BEATMATCHING!"

So I'm beginning to wonder how much easier/fun our jobs would be if we had an auto beatmatch feature? We could be much more creative.

Now don't on me. And don't say anything about ITCH.

What are your thoughts? Pride aside, you know it would be sweet.
dj_penguin 1:07 AM - 14 March, 2008
SSL already has auto-beatmatch. Here's how it works:

1. Put your tack on, and slide the pitch slider until the BPM matches the BPM of the tune you're playing

2. Cue it up and fine-tune it, either with your ears or the waveforms

It's hard to get any easier than that, especially considering that any sort of auto-match would need fine-tuning anyway.
Illuminatty 2:45 PM - 14 March, 2008
That's not auto beat match though. That's just beat matching. And it doesn't stay matched like it would with auto beat match.
lumo 3:52 PM - 14 March, 2008
auto beat match sucks!
Jeca 4:52 PM - 14 March, 2008
NEVER.... THIS SHOULD BE A PRO SOFTWARE FOR PRO DJS!!! And real PRO DJs won´t need Auto-Beatmatch.

Michael Schmuacher also won´t use a Autopilot
dj_penguin 6:49 PM - 14 March, 2008
Quote:
That's not auto beat match though. That's just beat matching. And it doesn't stay matched like it would with auto beat match.


You're assuming that auto-beatmatch would be perfect. I don't think it would, based on the characterizations I have heard of the auto-beatmatch function in ITCH from Serato employees on this forum. I think it would put the mix in the ballpark for you, but it would still be up to the DJ to fine tune and keep it matched. I don't know about you, but the main reason I acquired SSL was to maintain the tactile control of vinyl while moving to a digital music format . After years of working with just plain old vinyl, I can match beats in SSL so fast it's disgusting, and honestly, I'm not the greatest DJ in the world. If I can do it in 30 seconds, I'm sure better DJs than I can do it in ten or fifteen seconds.

I'm wondering what new worlds of creativity you feel would open up if DJs had an extra ten or fifteen seconds per song?
Deo 7:51 PM - 14 March, 2008
Quote:
NEVER.... THIS SHOULD BE A PRO SOFTWARE FOR PRO DJS!!! And real PRO DJs won´t need Auto-Beatmatch.

Michael Schmuacher also won´t use a Autopilot


Yeah but boeing 747 pilots do :D...

anyway well said, auto BPM will just make SSL "yet another dj program for those who can't dj", ugrrr far from it.
Illuminatty 8:55 PM - 14 March, 2008
Serato already makes beatmatching easy as pie. I just think it would be alot easier if the tracks stayed in beat.

I was thinking along the lines of VDJ's auto beatmatch button. It's near perfect if you ask me.
dj_penguin 9:00 PM - 14 March, 2008
So use VDJ if it's near perfect. Why does SSL need to mimic the features of other platforms?
Illuminatty 10:44 PM - 14 March, 2008
I was just talking about auto beat match in response to another comment.
dj_penguin 12:35 AM - 15 March, 2008
And you did so knowing that the whole auto-beatmatch thing has been flogged to death on this forum. I just want to know why, i.e. what great new realms of creativity is auto-beatmatch going to open up?
lumo 11:29 AM - 15 March, 2008
Quote:
Serato already makes beatmatching easy as pie. I just think it would be alot easier if the tracks stayed in beat.

I was thinking along the lines of VDJ's auto beatmatch button. It's near perfect if you ask me.


the track does stay in beat if you match it properly!
nik39 11:21 PM - 16 March, 2008
*yawn*
Imhoff 6:27 PM - 20 March, 2008
plzzzzzzzzz do not implement auto bpmmatch in this great program...

it wil make it sooo les professional!! alot of people not knowing anything about dj'ing are sometimes already thinking: ooo he got a pc , so he is faking and using auto bpm match all the time!

So like Jeca says, leave this great program for professionals!! send them to virtual-dj with their 'hercules dj' console.... or any other crap...


grtz
djtoast 1:30 AM - 21 March, 2008
Yes! i wuold lvoe to see tihs becaues i dnot hvae sufficeintly good co-orndiatoin to atcually mix tow reocrsd togehter. As yuo cna see form my tpyign.
Dj.Mojo 6:00 PM - 21 March, 2008
Quote:
Quote:
Serato already makes beatmatching easy as pie. I just think it would be alot easier if the tracks stayed in beat.

I was thinking along the lines of VDJ's auto beatmatch button. It's near perfect if you ask me.


the track does stay in beat if you match it properly!

+ Make use of the Estimate button
Otherwise you got the "horserase" going :D
joeydj4u 8:06 AM - 23 March, 2008
Don't you people get tired of Bashing each other??????

8-track
real to real
tape deck
turntable
CDJ
Digital software

Hmmm, Pattern??????

Does'nt Matter!!! Embrace the future..Serato VDJ Traktor, whatever!!
You guys are funny, years ago you had to cut tape to make a track loop, echo etc.
Now you have a CDJ that can do this for you. So, just because you use auto sync so you could concentrate on whats most important (making people SHAKE there ass) ITS NOT A BAD THING.. its a TOOL. Does it make you less of a dj if you use a CDJ??

Playing a great set by reading a crowd and taking them where they think the want to go, is what being a TRUE professional is all about. Its not about YOU, its about the smilely faces in front of you, they don't give a rats ass whether you using autosync or not.
In conclusion, whatever helps us concentrate on the crowd, instead of fiddeling with a pitch control (witch still does'nt work properly on ssl)

Why not? If you dont want to use the beat match feature, i'm sure you will ignore it.
joeydj4u 8:21 AM - 23 March, 2008
Oh, another thing- For the so called pro's >

Whats so great about playing digital files that sound like "KA -KA" on a large sound system? You are NO longer Playing with a beautiful analog sound.
Does this make you any less of a Dj? Other than the fact that your cheating because your not carrying all you crates of records and playing real Vinyl??? What makes this any different from using a so called "cheating" auto sync??

Bla Bla Bla
djtoast 4:54 PM - 24 March, 2008
Thing is, learning to beatmatch two house records takes an afternoon. Learning to entertain a crowd has so far taken me twenty years and I'm not done yet. If you don't have the skill or (very minimal) dedication to learn to get to tracks syncronised, I find it hard to believe you have the dedication to learn the other aspects of the trade needed to be a good DJ.

I don't care if Serato add it, I wouldn't even promise never to use it if they did - I just don't feel like I need it.
threat 9:08 PM - 24 March, 2008
if you want auto beatmatching then use Ableton and warp each beat of the track into the program - even the most random tracks can then be auto beatmetched. But like dj_penguin said - surely the whole point of using a vinyl emulation program like serato is to maintain the tactile feel of vinyl and you can't really have it both ways "Illuminatty"
Deo 4:28 PM - 25 March, 2008
To hell with auto-beatmatch, this is what SSL should have: "Auto Crowd Reader". Imagine SSL detect the overall emotion and vibe on the dance floor, selects the track automatically, loads it into available deck, beatmatches it, and all DJ has to do is either agree or disagree with SSL's seleection... how is that???

seriously tho, I think its time Serato & Rane increased the price on SSL, so that way, those who want the "real feel" and "stability" will know where to look and can afford it, and those who want "toys with auto features" will not even bother with SSL.

If someone wants Auto this auto that, there are plenty of other stuff that does them, and last i checked nobody was forcing anybody into getting SSL. or were they???
djbriguy 8:16 PM - 25 March, 2008
use VDJ then
DJ Bossman 9:12 PM - 17 February, 2010
Let's get for real. Scratch Live SL1 has already made it possible for even the most novice "DJ" look "Not Too Bad." Perfect Beat Matching is one of the differences between DJs with talent and the thousands of goons with expensive DJ equipment that are starting to make our art a joke.

Next thing I expect from non-talented "DJs" is an auto scratch feature and an Artificial Intelligence add on so they don't have to have the intuition to play the right song next based on the reactions they get from dancers.

SL upped the game for REAL DJs. We no longer have to carry crates of records or Cd's. We're no longer limited to what we brought in milk crates. Any easier and my 10 y.o. son can chop it up in the clubs with Jazzy Jeff.
Henry GQ 9:30 PM - 17 February, 2010
go get fuckin traktor. and if ur friend tells u to blow him? why dont u do it ?!!!
Henry GQ 9:30 PM - 17 February, 2010
o and why dont u be dj friends with pauly d, i bet he wants auto beat match too! loser.
Henry GQ 9:32 PM - 17 February, 2010
hey lets add auto scratch too! im not a great scratcher, but i think it would SUCK if ssl had auto scratch, maybe if traktor put that in, i might buy it.NOT
Serato, Forum Moderator
Eru G 12:02 AM - 18 February, 2010
Can we keep the discussion in here civil please ? It's not hard to discuss something without getting your pitch forks and torches out.
Henry GQ 12:47 AM - 18 February, 2010
hahaha, alright fine. wheres my rope, lets hang this dood.
Laz219 6:39 AM - 18 February, 2010
Quote:
Can we keep the discussion in here of the forums for the rest of time please? It's hard to discuss something nobody wants
Laz219 6:39 AM - 18 February, 2010
of= off*
Evon 12:15 PM - 21 February, 2010
I hope Serato never implement autosync feature. It would take away the credibility of the djs using it. Keep serato Industry standard.
Evil_banana 1:14 PM - 22 February, 2010
Personally, auto beat match would take all the fun out of Serato. Also (since SSL is vinyl emulation), if you auto beatmatch... what is the point left in using SSL, since there' would be no vinyl emulation left?
You'd be better off using Ableton Live, which has a lot more possibilities than Traktor. You could stop caring about beatmatching, throw in tracks and breaks and just start working the effects instead.

no thanks, no beat match for me
Henry GQ 10:15 PM - 22 February, 2010
what he said^
welly 9:42 AM - 27 February, 2010
A big fat NO to auto beat match!!

For all the people getting hung up on a DJ's ability to beat match two records, that is just a skill required to perform a continuous smooth set.

DJ'ing is about music selection people! The best beat matchers in the world will still get booed off if they're serving up garbage music!
Dj Knockout101 4:05 PM - 27 February, 2010
-1
djvicny 9:39 PM - 8 March, 2010
LOL I am reading these threads and it's funny how sensitive some are...

A) Professiona Dj.. what is it... you think not having a autobeat match will make this application less professional. Come on guys.. i hear the crying from Dj's who are trying to market them self as (I can dj and the guy using VDJ is not a real DJ).. it's about how much you book and the money you make this business.... if Serato added an Ato-beat match, i promise half of your asses would use it and not cry about it when you need it. If you think you don't need it, DON'T USE IT.. Just like no one pushing you to buy Serato, no one is pushing you to USE IT... It is a functionality a SOFTWARE should have like any other SOFTWARE in the market... come on people your crying like girls over something so simply.

THE APPLICATION SHOULD BE COMPETITIVE WITH OTHER APPLICATION... IF YOU OPT TO USE IT THEN DO SO, IF NOT THEN DON'T AND USE YOUR TRADITIONAL BEAT MATCHING SKILLS.

STOP CRYING OVER PROFESSIONAL OR NOT. SERATO SHOULD IMPLEMENT THIS JUST TO BE PROFESSIONAL WITH THE OTHER PRODUCTS.. AND FOR USERS CURSING ON THIS FORUM.... GROW UP..
Henry GQ 9:39 PM - 8 March, 2010
go read the other threads moron...
Serato, Forum Moderator
Eru G 9:57 PM - 8 March, 2010
Quote:
Eru G wrote: Can we keep the discussion in here civil please ? It's not hard to discuss something without getting your pitch forks and torches out.


Quote:
Henry GQ wrote: hahaha, alright fine.


Quote:
Henry GQ wrote: go read the other threads moron...


You should know better by now Henry. Any more out of line personal attacks in here and I'll lock this thread.
Henry GQ 9:59 PM - 8 March, 2010
can u just lock the thread now ? how many different threads do we have to see about this subject???
Henry GQ 9:59 PM - 8 March, 2010
oh and sorry.
Evil_banana 10:14 AM - 9 March, 2010
Quote:
LOL I am reading these threads and it's funny how sensitive some are...

A) Professiona Dj.. what is it... you think not having a autobeat match will make this application less professional. Come on guys.. i hear the crying from Dj's who are trying to market them self as (I can dj and the guy using VDJ is not a real DJ).. it's about how much you book and the money you make this business.... if Serato added an Ato-beat match, i promise half of your asses would use it and not cry about it when you need it. If you think you don't need it, DON'T USE IT.. Just like no one pushing you to buy Serato, no one is pushing you to USE IT... It is a functionality a SOFTWARE should have like any other SOFTWARE in the market... come on people your crying like girls over something so simply.

THE APPLICATION SHOULD BE COMPETITIVE WITH OTHER APPLICATION... IF YOU OPT TO USE IT THEN DO SO, IF NOT THEN DON'T AND USE YOUR TRADITIONAL BEAT MATCHING SKILLS.

STOP CRYING OVER PROFESSIONAL OR NOT. SERATO SHOULD IMPLEMENT THIS JUST TO BE PROFESSIONAL WITH THE OTHER PRODUCTS.. AND FOR USERS CURSING ON THIS FORUM.... GROW UP..

I agree on the fact that the functionality does not determine whether you're professional or not. Your choice of tracks is the most inmportant thing that will make you a good or a bad DJ, the mix itself comes into second place.

But I do believe that it would be a mistake to implement autosync/beatmatch/... because it would go against the very nature of Scratchlive. Scratchlive is a DVS (Digital VINYL emulation System). If it can beatmatch by itself, then the very thing that makes Scratchlive so great compared to the rest (stable and quality Vinyl emulation) would be rendered useless and an obsolete feature. And we would need a lot more bells and whistles to keep thing interesting since beatmatching is no longer part of the work. And Scratchlive does not have all those bells and whistles, Traktor does. So basically you would end up with a software that tries to be similar to the rest, but just not as good.

I don't think Scratchlive NEEDS to implement this to "get with the times and compete with the rest", simply because it's a different category of product. Compare it to Scratchlive being a Ferrari and Traktor a luxurious SUV. I am NOT saying either is better than the other one... just different.
Implementing auto-beatmatch into scratchlive in order to compete with the rest, is like trying to build a ferrari that can compete with the all-in SUV. You would need to make it less fuel-consuming, comfortable suspension and seating, plenty of storage, in-car entertainment, video for the kids, etcetera... But then you would end up with a Ferrari that is not as good as the luxurious SUV (because in the end that's not what it was initially designed for), but it would be far less good as a sportscar as well because of all the sacrifices that have been made to accomodate all the new features. Same goes the other way around, you can never make an SUV as fast as a ferrari.
But the thing is... it doesn't need to be. The Ferrari doesn't need all the gadgets and extras of an SUV, and the SUV does not need to be as fast as the Ferrari because they are simply different categories. They don't need to compete, they can coexist.

Scratchlive is for the performant straight-up Vinyl-type of DJ, Traktor is more geared towards people who like the bells like many effects and auto-beatmatch.

So to me, I would not like to see this feature implemented because of "professionalism", but because I feel it is unnecessary since it is not the nature of this DJ-system... and it would take away lot's of resources for the engineering of features that would make the software better in it's own category.
LiamDNicoll 4:02 PM - 16 March, 2010
Please do not add this feature. Id imagine a lot of SSL box will go on ebay if it does. Id probably go CDJ if this is added
Dj Knockout101 2:34 AM - 17 March, 2010
Quote:
Please do not add this feature. Id imagine a lot of SSL box will go on ebay if it does. Id probably go CDJ if this is added


LOL... I wonder why people just don't go to the other DJ software out there that already does this instead of requesting it here?
Dj A2 Armando 6:26 AM - 17 March, 2010
That would be cheatin. Like drivin an automatic car. Then anyone wud be able to dj just like any1 can drive, even though yes we do have those other softwares with that feature. But if you wanna be pro, doin it manually is da way 2 go! Like drivin a manual stickshift, I definitly wouldnt want that or it wud be no challenge and borin! Please do not implement on our great professional software.
sixxx 4:50 PM - 17 March, 2010
To say that those who are against auto-sync will be using it if they install it, is just like saying that those who want auto-sync will get more creative because of it.

Face it. The vast majority of those who want auto-sync will just get more lazy because of it and no, they will not get creative. If you weren't creative enough with just two turntables (pre-DVS) or 2 CD players, there is no "tool" in the world that will help you get creative.
DjWoody 5:44 PM - 17 March, 2010
Quote:
Quote:
That's not auto beat match though. That's just beat matching. And it doesn't stay matched like it would with auto beat match.


You're assuming that auto-beatmatch would be perfect. I don't think it would, based on the characterizations I have heard of the auto-beatmatch function in ITCH from Serato employees on this forum. I think it would put the mix in the ballpark for you, but it would still be up to the DJ to fine tune and keep it matched. I don't know about you, but the main reason I acquired SSL was to maintain the tactile control of vinyl while moving to a digital music format . After years of working with just plain old vinyl, I can match beats in SSL so fast it's disgusting, and honestly, I'm not the greatest DJ in the world. If I can do it in 30 seconds, I'm sure better DJs than I can do it in ten or fifteen seconds.

I'm wondering what new worlds of creativity you feel would open up if DJs had an extra ten or fifteen seconds per song?


That's exactly how AutoSync works in Traktor. It matches the songs for a few seconds, than it's up to the DJ to keep them matched. IMO, it's harder to DJ using AutoSync in Traktor than it is by aligning the waveforms in Serato. I tried both, and Traktor's AutoSync goes off beat quick. Everytime you keep pressing the auto sync button the track jumps and it sounds horrible. Traktor doesn't have waveforms side by side so DJ's have to actually learn how to mix unless they use the horrible sounding AutoSync that actually throws them off beat. lol
DJ LTIZZZLE 6:41 PM - 17 March, 2010
I think it's fine the way it is.. Two thumbs down for auto-stink.
djdannyd 10:29 PM - 17 March, 2010
Serato should make and market auto sinc, people that want it would have to pay $300 for that upgrade.
IRONIC 10:58 PM - 17 March, 2010
the next dude who wants to write "auto sync" should be blocked after the "auto s"

why r u guys always come up with it again??

no AS ;-) ever
DjWoody 1:36 AM - 19 March, 2010
Quote:
why r u guys always come up with it again??


lol cuz it's becoming more obivious that more people want it. lol
Wazo 9:16 PM - 19 March, 2010
if you want auto sink, this is the real deal here!!!

www.blogcdn.com
bgardali 10:53 PM - 21 March, 2010
Quote:
That's exactly how AutoSync works in Traktor. It matches the songs for a few seconds, than it's up to the DJ to keep them matched. IMO, it's harder to DJ using AutoSync in Traktor than it is by aligning the waveforms in Serato. I tried both, and Traktor's AutoSync goes off beat quick. Everytime you keep pressing the auto sync button the track jumps and it sounds horrible. Traktor doesn't have waveforms side by side so DJ's have to actually learn how to mix unless they use the horrible sounding AutoSync that actually throws them off beat. lol


<----Ex-Traktor user.
This is incorrect. There is a bar above the waveforms that shows you how far off beat a track is and whether it is behind or ahead of the beat. IMO, It's an even easier visual system to read and beatmatch with than Serato. Also most loss of autosync problems come from incorrect beat grids. Learning how to beat grid properly (manually) will solve 99% of the difficulty you are describing.
DJ Koeul Benny 5:10 AM - 22 March, 2010
Quote:
To say that those who are against auto-sync will be using it if they install it, is just like saying that those who want auto-sync will get more creative because of it.

Face it. The vast majority of those who want auto-sync will just get more lazy because of it and no, they will not get creative. If you weren't creative enough with just two turntables (pre-DVS) or 2 CD players, there is no "tool" in the world that will help you get creative.


+1
Dj.Mojo 4:26 PM - 23 March, 2010
hard but true
P.M.G. 3:19 PM - 28 March, 2010
Any Tard that needs an "autobeatmatching" needs to turn off the "DJ HERO" and get some real skillz, otherwise, u'll just be a POSER thru the eyes of real DJ's, anyone can learn how to mix, hell, my kid brother picked it up in two weeks on matching beats, it's not that hard. Can you tell a story in your mix whether it a freestyle/set mix, is what makes you a real Dj. It's kinda sad really for a person to actually thinks he's actually dj'ing by using this feature in any event, house partys, clubs, ect,...
Playing "DJ Hero" doesn't make you a "DJ" and "Dance Revolution" won't make you a good dancer, it'll just make you look silly, it's all a lie man hahaha
credentia1 3:22 PM - 28 March, 2010
NOOOOOOOO serato is basically the last of the more true to DJ software available. I love the fact that version 2 has the chance to illiminate all beatmatching lines etc. You can still cheat easy as if thats what you desire. Learn to Dj. Go buy some turntables, it will make you a better dj in the long run trust me.
DJ Koeul Benny 1:41 AM - 29 March, 2010
Quote:
NOOOOOOOO serato is basically the last of the more true to DJ software available. I love the fact that version 2 has the chance to illiminate all beatmatching lines etc. You can still cheat easy as if thats what you desire. Learn to Dj. Go buy some turntables, it will make you a better dj in the long run trust me.



LOL That You Just mentioned that my friend always accuses me of being a screen watcher But the other day I put V2.0 on his laptop and put it in that Screen Mode
and he was train wrecking like Hell! I almost bust my Gut Laughing so hard
He tryed to play it off and be cool by saying he wasn't used to playing on Beta Ware
I was just like why dont you switch the screen mode back to screen watcher mode
so you can mix again

Lol had me a good laugh But 4 real the smart crates are the shit ! V2.0 is the best ever
can't wait for the Bridge that'll be awesome !
Henry GQ 1:47 AM - 29 March, 2010
i still dont see how u can use the smart crates to a huge advantage. i guess i will have to wait for a more in detail video. i seen the one with konix, but i dunno...
DJ Koeul Benny 1:50 AM - 29 March, 2010
I Personally just like the View better also it seems to cut my time in trying to find my next tune although trying to get the right album art has been tough to do but the bigger is definatly a Big Plus
DJ Koeul Benny 1:51 AM - 29 March, 2010
edit : the bigger type is definatly a Big Plus
krzysiek_1989 10:44 PM - 10 June, 2010
lol some of you guys and your friggen egos.

I bet 95% of you here drive automatic cars and have never touched or shifted a gear in a standard car in your life....if you wanna keep it real drive a stick shift if not then your not a real driver same thing with this beatmatching dilema.

Auto sync was introduced to make a djs job more easier, like a automatic transmission was introduced to make a drivers job more easier. technology changes people get with it.

I started out as a vdj user when i had no gear just my laptop and i used the autosync button when i did gigs and things it helped me out alot. then i got gear had some money got the audio 8 for relatively cheap didnt like traktor at all so i traded my audio 8 for a sl1 and now im a full time serato user. However the autosync really sped up my skills as a dj, i learned phrasing, different transition techniques faster than i would have had to learn beatmatching. Now with serato i have no problem beatmatching i can get it in sync within 10-15 seconds. I use serato at the club i dj at simply because i love beatmatching now i just get more into the grove and feel the music more however if i do private events like a shitty stag n doe or just an event where there is no vibe what soever... i use vdj auto sync n kick back i see nothing wrong in that
Evil_banana 9:52 AM - 11 June, 2010
erhm... The automatic gear is mostly a US thing I guess. Here almost nobody drives an automatic (thank god, cause I hate automatic) :oP
Dj Knockout101 9:59 PM - 11 June, 2010
Quote:
lol some of you guys and your friggen egos.

I bet 95% of you here drive automatic cars and have never touched or shifted a gear in a standard car in your life....if you wanna keep it real drive a stick shift if not then your not a real driver same thing with this beatmatching dilema.

Auto sync was introduced to make a djs job more easier, like a automatic transmission was introduced to make a drivers job more easier. technology changes people get with it.

I started out as a vdj user when i had no gear just my laptop and i used the autosync button when i did gigs and things it helped me out alot. then i got gear had some money got the audio 8 for relatively cheap didnt like traktor at all so i traded my audio 8 for a sl1 and now im a full time serato user. However the autosync really sped up my skills as a dj, i learned phrasing, different transition techniques faster than i would have had to learn beatmatching. Now with serato i have no problem beatmatching i can get it in sync within 10-15 seconds. I use serato at the club i dj at simply because i love beatmatching now i just get more into the grove and feel the music more however if i do private events like a shitty stag n doe or just an event where there is no vibe what soever... i use vdj auto sync n kick back i see nothing wrong in that


Totally understand where you are coming from. I want to use you analgy. When you purchase a car, mostly a sports car you have a option in a manual or automatic. Same with purchasing a DVS, you have a option of purchasing a DVS with the autobeat feature or purchasing one without. Clearly you purchased one with out so why complain. You can just make a car a manual when you want it to be then change it to an automatic. Serato is intended soley for not carrying crates around basically. They made to where DJ's still have the actual real felling of DJ'n and using there skills.
nik39 11:35 PM - 11 June, 2010
Quote:
I started out as a vdj user when i had no gear just my laptop and i used the autosync button

*cough* no offense, but... at that point you called yourself a DJ?

Quote:
I bet 95% of you here drive automatic cars and have never touched or shifted a gear in a standard car in your life....if you wanna keep it real drive a stick shift if not then your not a real driver same thing with this beatmatching dilema.

I don't care about being an auto-driver or not. But when it comes to DJing...I *do* care.

And for the record - no, I don't drice an automatic car.

Quote:
However the autosync really sped up my skills as a dj

Finally...Eh... too many contradicting words in one sentence.
AKIEM 8:11 PM - 12 June, 2010
I drive a manual car.
a. more control
b. no one can barrow it
WarpNote 8:13 AM - 14 June, 2010
Quote:
erhm... The automatic gear is mostly a US thing I guess. Here almost nobody drives an automatic (thank god, cause I hate automatic) :oP

Exactly, I got my drivers license in 1990, and I've driven automatics less than 5 times.
In European countries you normally need be able to shift gears to get a regular licence.
(Same year I got into vinyl collection, started DJ a few years later)

[rant mode]I know I'm gonna get flamed for this, but it seems to me a lot of Americans (not all) are so lazy and wants to have everything "done for them", they don't bother to walk, and when they get into a car, they cant even drive it, if its not automatic. Man, just looking at a general American TV series there's so much over weight people, how come ?... ;-) [/rant mode]
hersh20 1:33 PM - 16 June, 2010
- 10000
Voyager529 1:21 AM - 18 June, 2010
Quote:
Totally understand where you are coming from. I want to use you analgy. When you purchase a car, mostly a sports car you have a option in a manual or automatic. Same with purchasing a DVS, you have a option of purchasing a DVS with the autobeat feature or purchasing one without. Clearly you purchased one with out so why complain. You can just make a car a manual when you want it to be then change it to an automatic. Serato is intended soley for not carrying crates around basically. They made to where DJ's still have the actual real felling of DJ'n and using there skills.


The place where your analogy falls flat is that the decision as to whether a car has a transmission or a gear shift must be made at the time of purchase, and is rather pointless to retrofit later. Software can be altered much more readily than a car can. Case in point: the earlier versions of Serato didn't have pitch lock, didn't support 3 decks, and I'm sure a few more page logs of features that have been added later. When I'm not posting here, I'm posting on Slashdot, where car analogies are a bit of a meme and every one of them gets scrutinized like this.

To the guys worrying about unskilled jocks starting out with SSL and using the autopilot, realize that they sell Vestax controllers in the Apple store, and that most of the jocks you're talking about get their tracks from Limewire and run a cracked copy of Virtual DJ. They're not going to drop $700 on an SL3, plus CDJs/turntables. People who hire them probably won't be hiring you, and vice versa.

I love how inflammatory this whole topic is on these boards. I think it's time for a few people to get a grip on reality. Ready? Read the following line closely...

<b>95% of the people you will play for couldn't possibly care less whether you can beatmatch by ear, by looking at the waveform, or having it done by the computer.</b>

I'm a former Torq user. I'm a former Deckadance user. I'm a current Mixmeister user. I watch Disney Channel shows and have every Hannah Montana soundtrack in my music library that I take to every gig. Wanna know why I'm saying all this? If all of you anti-autobeatmatch jocks are "professional DJs" because you can beat mix with your eyes closed (and I presume you are because you're worried about the image of professional DJs if it becomes easier to do what you do) then pleas read the following line closely:

<i>I couldn't possibly care less about what you think of me, either.</i>

Do you want to know whose opinion I care about? I care about the opinion of the bride who I saw yesterday who insisted on meeting with me the day after she got back from her honeymoon to give me a $100 bill as a tip, told me to give anyone I wanted her cell number so that she could give me a glowing review to any prospective clients, and who offered to clean up a PR mess about a false accusation someone had spread about me.

Let me let you in on a little secret: I didn't beat match AT ALL at her party! *CAN* I beatmatch? yeah, I'm generally halfway decent at it. Can I beatmatch all that great with 50's and 60's music that ranges from Elvis and the Beatles to Beach Boys, Frank Sinatra, and some obscure Zydeco group I'd never heard of? Not a chance, nor do I think autopilot would help me there, either.

I may be coming from a bit different angle than many of you guys who do club gigs since I'm a mobile jock, but if all I was worried about was being able to beat match, and my biggest selling point to this bride was that I can beatmatch manually, I wouldn't have gotten the gig in the first place - I probably would have lost it out to the guy who offered to do it for $100 less than me.

That bride has NO idea what software I used, she doesn't CARE what software I used, and ultimately I wouldn't have been able to charge extra for using SSL over Torq or Deckadance. None of the people dancing in the clubs you're spinning at, or drinking at the bars you're rocking out at, would be able to tell you which of SSL. Traktor, Torq, and VDJ doesn't have autosync, which one you're using, or whether you lined up the beats by ear or by eye. They will, however, remember whether you played their favorite song and how they danced until they passed out from drinking too much.

The executive summary goes something like this: I don't care if Serato adds autosync to SSL, but if all you guys are worried about is the fact that it won't make you special for proving you can beat match without software help, the presence of autosync isn't your issue.

Joey
AKIEM 5:48 AM - 18 June, 2010
Joey, what you are missing - the argument is about the direction of the software. Is it "pro" equipment? Professional DJs simply do not need auto-sync especially in a DVS. The purpose of this software as stated is to simulate vinyl. Serato has software other software if you need auto-sync, its called ITCH. If you take all the functions from ITCH and put them in SSL why would we even have two softwares. If you want auto-sync from Serato, use ITCH.
Evil_banana 8:19 AM - 18 June, 2010
Quote:
Joey, what you are missing - the argument is about the direction of the software. Is it "pro" equipment? Professional DJs simply do not need auto-sync especially in a DVS. The purpose of this software as stated is to simulate vinyl. Serato has software other software if you need auto-sync, its called ITCH. If you take all the functions from ITCH and put them in SSL why would we even have two softwares. If you want auto-sync from Serato, use ITCH.

Exactly! It's not like autosync will bring Armageddon to the world. It's just, ... there's no point in adding it to SSL when you also have ITCH which is approx the same thing as SSL+autosync-vinylemulation.

It's not like SSL would suddenly suck. It's just that this would be a development intensive feature. I'd rather have them invest that development in other areas, especially since ITCH is already that answer to autosync
Voyager529 1:24 PM - 18 June, 2010
As a professional video editor (at my last job anyway), I had a copy of Adobe Premiere and didn't NEED the video editing functions of the Nero burning suite. So I didn't use them.

I have a mixer with ground screws. Since my TTX turntables use the ground from the electrical outlet, I don't NEED the ground screws. So I don't use them.

My phone at work has 12 speed dial buttons. Since I call virtually everyone in the building at one point or another and thus rely on the phone directory, I don't NEED those buttons. So I don't use them.

My Primecuts subscription includes a decent amount of country music. Here in New York, you'll be hard pressed to get a request for a country song beyond Taylor Swift or Shania Twain. I don't NEED the country songs, so I don't use them.

My cell phone can record video. I've never been in a place where I've wanted to record a video on my phone. I don't NEED the feature, so I don't use it.

Let's make this a bit more personal and list out some features in Scratch Live that I don't use:
-Third Deck
-Record flip loads next track
-iTunes integration
-Smart Crates (Really Serato, was it THAT hard to add "folder path" to the criteria?)

The general tone of this thread makes it sound like some jocks DO think it will be the end of the world (or at least their careers) if autosync is added (Shout out to Evil_Banana, btw). Your statement is a bit contradictory - you say that autosync is already in Itch, yet it'd be development intensive to add it to Scratch. I'm by no means a career programmer, but from what I can gather the two titles share much of the same code base, so at least half the work (and likely the heavy half of figuring out the math of autosync functionality) is already done and is likely pretty simple to integrate into Scratch.

AKEIM, please define a "professional DJ". If we base the definition on your statement and make it "A disc jockey who does not need any assistants matching beats", then I'm not a professional DJ...but my tax return showed that, despite the fact that I bought more gear last year than any other year prior to it, I still turned several thousand dollars in profit. You'll have a rough time trying to convince the bride I referenced in my last post that I'm not a professional; she used that word more frequently than any other when she described me. You'll have a rough time convincing the cheerleading camp that's hired me for nine years in a row. THAT list can go on and on as well. I'm no more professional now that I have an SL3 than I was last year with my Connectiv. I'm no more professional now because of my Denon HD-2500 than I was two years ago with my Cortex HDC-1000. What gear you have doesn't make you professional.

Also, consider that I can probably beat match several hours of music that doesn't fluctuate more than 5bpm from the last song I played...but it's not uncommon for me to need to jump from 90 to 110bpm, or 120 to 135, from rock to pop to rap to techno, all in half an hour, none of which "responds well" to being scratched in or backspun. I can't get away with dropping electro house all night, either.

Also AKEIM, consider the $700 price tag on an SL3. Even if you're using a cheap American Audio dual CD deck with an integrated crossfader that cost $300, you've spent $1,000 on your rig. A $200 craigslist hack won't have the funds to do even that well - he's much more likely to have a bunch of limewire tracks and a pirated copy of Virtual DJ, the latter because it works out of his headphone output with no special audio interface required. A $700 cost barrier to entry is a pretty solid way for Serato to make sure that Scratch Live is only used by people who take DJing seriously. Personally, I doubt that SSL will take that market just because it adds autosync. Like you said, there are Itch controllers for that segment.

Itch works with said controllers, but doesn't do vinyl emulation. I still don't care either way if autosync is added, but to make an argument in its favor, a jock who gets lazy just because it's available is probably lazy now. If it still works for him, great. If his shows start to suck, that's his fault, not autosync's. But like I said before, few people who aren't DJs themselves particularly care whether the transition was due to your 1337 sk!11z or because you were autosynced. If you don't believe me, grab one of the 30 minute piss break mixes from Crooklyn Clan and drop it, let it play for 10 minutes straight, and see if the crowd cares that you didn't have your hands on the turntables once.

Sorry the list is discoordinated. It's early, lol.

Joey
WarpNote 2:04 PM - 18 June, 2010
Joey, have you tried out ITCH?
If you do you will find that load on CPU & Memory is higher than using SSL.
And you will also find that quite a few have problems running it under Windows.
I've used itch myself, and I think its a great solution with the NS7.
But you can't argue that it still is less mature compared to SSL ?

Personally I don't really care if they add auto sync, if it sells more hardware, then good for Rane/Serato.. and us. Something that will not sell more hardware, is if SSL would become less stable. And that's always a concern when adding any type of new feature. If Serato were to add auto beatmatch to SSL, then they would need to make a good solution and not just a half a$$ed one. And this would increase the load on a system, it might still run smooth, who knows...?

What you're seeing in this thread is peoples concern about this issue and the fact that the developers would spend their time on this instead of another feature they want more...

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, personally I don't care about the stigma.
There is already a stigma when it comes to "laptop dj's" anyway. And most are silenced once they're told the price of the rane box/mixer anyway....

My my car rant post above was about cars... well, mainly... ;-)
Voyager529 3:01 PM - 18 June, 2010
I've not personally tried Itch for any appreciable amount of time, no. My thesis above was based on what the previous posters had said.

If you're correct in that Itch is more CPU intensive and less stable, then think of it this way: someone over at Serato is going to have to tighten up some code for Itch. You won't find a whole lot of NS7 users happy with unstable software, like you said. Whether that's directly related to the autosync subroutines or not is a matter of speculation since Serato hasn't opened up the source. If we presume that they are related, then odds are that the code will be tightened up, and the question is whether it'll be pasted into Scratch. If they're not related and the code is already stable, then adding autosync to Scratch should be a trivial task that won't destabilize the platform anyway.

Personally, I'm just pissing and moaning here because I really have nothing better to do right now. More to the point, I just can't stand it when people are like "ZoMg AdDiNg AuToSyNc WiLl dEsTr0Y sErAtO n i'LL b CoMpEtInG WiT tEh NoObZ!!!!1111one!111". I've come to the conclusion that Serato will pretty much do what it wants, regardless of what the users actually ask for. The FLAC thread is nearly six years old, and we haven't seen that. The auto import thread is a mile long and also several years old.

Quite bluntly, Rane and Serato have my money. After six years they won't (yes, WON'T) implement features so simplistic and so heavily requested, and all the support I *HAVE* gotten has been out of the generosity of the community here, then I have no threats to make. I anticipate nothing, and they've spent several years showing that what I want has no bearing on what I'll ultimately see in the software. That, my friends, foes, and fellow DVS users, is why I ultimately don't care about autosync. It doesn't really matter what I think.

Sorry about the rant and the thread hijack.

Joey
WarpNote 3:10 PM - 18 June, 2010
Haha, that made me laugh, but you're wrong on one account, Serato does absolutely care about what they're users want, and even more importantly what they need :D

And I have yet to see a trivial, yet good working, auto beatmatch.

Now, gotta get ready for my gig tonite, later...
djsince74 3:19 PM - 18 June, 2010
Don't need Beat Match, but could do with it making me a cup of coffee. My wife's out and I don't know how to turn on the kettle.
AKIEM 4:00 PM - 18 June, 2010
no need to take what I am saying personally
no offense

Quote:

AKEIM, please define a "professional DJ". If we base the definition on your statement and make it "A disc jockey who does not need any assistants matching beats", then I'm not a professional DJ...but my tax return showed that, despite the fact that I bought more gear last year than any other year prior to it, I still turned several thousand dollars in profit. You'll have a rough time trying to convince the bride I referenced in my last post that I'm not a professional; she used that word more frequently than any other when she described me. You'll have a rough time convincing the cheerleading camp that's hired me for nine years in a row. THAT list can go on and on as well. I'm no more professional now that I have an SL3 than I was last year with my Connectiv. I'm no more professional now because of my Denon HD-2500 than I was two years ago with my Cortex HDC-1000. What gear you have doesn't make you professional.


I was speaking more about the equipment being a 'pro solution' and who it is made for. No its not the equipment that makes you a professional, but there is professional class equipment. Scratch Live is was created to emulate vinyl. It was made for 'Scratch DJs'.
Pro- equipment is usually specialized instead of trying to perform every single function that can be thrown in.

Yes, there are plenty of types of 'profesional DJs' who might not need to beat match.

But beat matching (imo) is so fundamental that even wedding DJs should be able to pull it off. Club DJs should be able to set up a PA.

Quote:

Also, consider that I can probably beat match several hours of music that doesn't fluctuate more than 5bpm from the last song I played...but it's not uncommon for me to need to jump from 90 to 110bpm, or 120 to 135, from rock to pop to rap to techno, all in half an hour, none of which "responds well" to being scratched in or backspun. I can't get away with dropping electro house all night, either.


like I said - not talking about 'you' rather the equipment

Quote:

Also AKEIM, consider the $700 price tag on an SL3. Even if you're using a cheap American Audio dual CD deck with an integrated crossfader that cost $300, you've spent $1,000 on your rig. A $200 craigslist hack won't have the funds to do even that well - he's much more likely to have a bunch of limewire tracks and a pirated copy of Virtual DJ, the latter because it works out of his headphone output with no special audio interface required. A $700 cost barrier to entry is a pretty solid way for Serato to make sure that Scratch Live is only used by people who take DJing seriously. Personally, I doubt that SSL will take that market just because it adds autosync. Like you said, there are Itch controllers for that segment.


Right - Serato has a solution for people who want an auto sync solution. And I do not have a problem with people wanting or using auto-sync for certain reasons. If you are doing allot of other creative type stuff - live remixing production type stuff (even then might as well use ableton) But using auto-sync because you cant beat match is something else.

I do not care about creating some type of price barrier, or any kind of barrier to anyone just starting. I am strictly talking about keeping pro instead of gimik.

Quote:

Itch works with said controllers, but doesn't do vinyl emulation.


good

How about adding multi-tracking, and midi production, and cd authoring, and broadcasting, and karaoke, and mastering.... you have to draw lines someplace. I think auto-beat matching makes plenty of good sense as a place to draw a line.

Quote:

I still don't care either way if autosync is added, but to make an argument in its favor, a jock who gets lazy just because it's available is probably lazy now. If it still works for him, great. If his shows start to suck, that's his fault, not autosync's. But like I said before, few people who aren't DJs themselves particularly care whether the transition was due to your 1337 sk!11z or because you were autosynced. If you don't believe me, grab one of the 30 minute piss break mixes from Crooklyn Clan and drop it, let it play for 10 minutes straight, and see if the crowd cares that you didn't have your hands on the turntables once.


I dont think it is Seratos job to keep DJs from being lazy. I do think it is Seratos job to create at least one pro dvs solution. auto-sync is not pro
AKIEM 4:14 PM - 18 June, 2010
Quote:

Personally, I'm just pissing and moaning here because I really have nothing better to do right now. More to the point, I just can't stand it when people are like "ZoMg AdDiNg AuToSyNc WiLl dEsTr0Y sErAtO n i'LL b CoMpEtInG WiT tEh NoObZ!!!!1111one!111". I've come to the conclusion that Serato will pretty much do what it wants, regardless of what the users actually ask for. The FLAC thread is nearly six years old, and we haven't seen that. The auto import thread is a mile long and also several years old.


My experience has been that Serato and Rane both listen to and consider most if not all the request they get. And even if I would like more feedback and explanations they do give a reasonable amount. Far more and better then plenty of other companies out there.

Quote:

Quite bluntly, Rane and Serato have my money. After six years they won't (yes, WON'T) implement features so simplistic and so heavily requested, and all the support I *HAVE* gotten has been out of the generosity of the community here, then I have no threats to make. I anticipate nothing, and they've spent several years showing that what I want has no bearing on what I'll ultimately see in the software. That, my friends, foes, and fellow DVS users, is why I ultimately don't care about autosync. It doesn't really matter what I think.


I have had pretty much the oposite experience.

Yes I am often frustrated with various shortcomings, the time it takes to implement certain things, and some of the direction - but I do not think these things are to spite me personally and I am sure that they are trying to create the best software possible.
Voyager529 7:39 PM - 18 June, 2010
Quote:
Haha, that made me laugh, but you're wrong on one account, Serato does absolutely care about what they're users want, and even more importantly what they need :D


I started writing this from scratch three times already, and I'm not sure how to phrase it without sounding like I'm just an unreasonable troll that Serato would be perfectly justified in ignoring. I'm sorry if I come across that way anyway. Ultimately, the lack of a high contrast mode and the fixing convoluted process of importing tracks have both been on the feature request list for five years. During the course of that time, there have been other features that I have felt were nice-to-have but not nearly as mission critical. Granted it's my opinion, and I don't fault the devs for having a different one. I just can't share your positive feelings yet.

Joey
Dj Knockout101 2:52 AM - 21 June, 2010
Joey,

I am glad you took my analogy into consideration, but the point of the analogy was if you want the auto beatmatch feature, you are better off by going back to Torq or Traktor. I really don't see the feature coming anytime soon with Serato.
Quote:
Quote:
Totally understand where you are coming from. I want to use you analgy. When you purchase a car, mostly a sports car you have a option in a manual or automatic. Same with purchasing a DVS, you have a option of purchasing a DVS with the autobeat feature or purchasing one without. Clearly you purchased one with out so why complain. You can just make a car a manual when you want it to be then change it to an automatic. Serato is intended soley for not carrying crates around basically. They made to where DJ's still have the actual real felling of DJ'n and using there skills.


The place where your analogy falls flat is that the decision as to whether a car has a transmission or a gear shift must be made at the time of purchase, and is rather pointless to retrofit later. Software can be altered much more readily than a car can. Case in point: the earlier versions of Serato didn't have pitch lock, didn't support 3 decks, and I'm sure a few more page logs of features that have been added later. When I'm not posting here, I'm posting on Slashdot, where car analogies are a bit of a meme and every one of them gets scrutinized like this.

To the guys worrying about unskilled jocks starting out with SSL and using the autopilot, realize that they sell Vestax controllers in the Apple store, and that most of the jocks you're talking about get their tracks from Limewire and run a cracked copy of Virtual DJ. They're not going to drop $700 on an SL3, plus CDJs/turntables. People who hire them probably won't be hiring you, and vice versa.

I love how inflammatory this whole topic is on these boards. I think it's time for a few people to get a grip on reality. Ready? Read the following line closely...

95% of the people you will play for couldn't possibly care less whether you can beatmatch by ear, by looking at the waveform, or having it done by the computer.

I'm a former Torq user. I'm a former Deckadance user. I'm a current Mixmeister user. I watch Disney Channel shows and have every Hannah Montana soundtrack in my music library that I take to every gig. Wanna know why I'm saying all this? If all of you anti-autobeatmatch jocks are "professional DJs" because you can beat mix with your eyes closed (and I presume you are because you're worried about the image of professional DJs if it becomes easier to do what you do) then pleas read the following line closely:

I couldn't possibly care less about what you think of me, either.

Do you want to know whose opinion I care about? I care about the opinion of the bride who I saw yesterday who insisted on meeting with me the day after she got back from her honeymoon to give me a $100 bill as a tip, told me to give anyone I wanted her cell number so that she could give me a glowing review to any prospective clients, and who offered to clean up a PR mess about a false accusation someone had spread about me.

Let me let you in on a little secret: I didn't beat match AT ALL at her party! *CAN* I beatmatch? yeah, I'm generally halfway decent at it. Can I beatmatch all that great with 50's and 60's music that ranges from Elvis and the Beatles to Beach Boys, Frank Sinatra, and some obscure Zydeco group I'd never heard of? Not a chance, nor do I think autopilot would help me there, either.

I may be coming from a bit different angle than many of you guys who do club gigs since I'm a mobile jock, but if all I was worried about was being able to beat match, and my biggest selling point to this bride was that I can beatmatch manually, I wouldn't have gotten the gig in the first place - I probably would have lost it out to the guy who offered to do it for $100 less than me.

That bride has NO idea what software I used, she doesn't CARE what software I used, and ultimately I wouldn't have been able to charge extra for using SSL over Torq or Deckadance. None of the people dancing in the clubs you're spinning at, or drinking at the bars you're rocking out at, would be able to tell you which of SSL. Traktor, Torq, and VDJ doesn't have autosync, which one you're using, or whether you lined up the beats by ear or by eye. They will, however, remember whether you played their favorite song and how they danced until they passed out from drinking too much.

The executive summary goes something like this: I don't care if Serato adds autosync to SSL, but if all you guys are worried about is the fact that it won't make you special for proving you can beat match without software help, the presence of autosync isn't your issue.

Joey


Joey,

I am glad you took my analogy into consideration, but the point of the analogy was if you want the auto beatmatch feature, you are better off by going back to Torq or Traktor. Although you do have a good argument I really don't see the feature coming anytime soon with Serato. Reason being it's been requested so many times, so many people object which pretty much over rules the crowd who want it. But as you compared some of the features that you claimed you didn't use, I agree with some of them, like the record flip feature and the iTunes feature these features where created, because Serato thought those features where money makers. At some point they where, so why would they take those features out risking people who still use those features to switch. Now the three deck people use that is why they took so much time to make it possible and also that's why they invested so much money in designing the 68. Moral of my story I don't think Serato would get the autobeat feature unless Traktor have a major down fall and all the EDM spinners come to Serato. My thoughts!
touchphonics 9:46 AM - 29 January, 2011
Please do NOT add auto beat match!! It would take even more integrity out of this art form. I mean c'mon people!! You can bpm each track and organize your crates that way. If you can't beat match wax or cd's with out help from a computer you shouldn't be djing.
PMYSKO 2:22 AM - 1 February, 2011
The only difference between Serato and all the other software out there is ...... You really have to have talent to use it. Unless you're a " Milli Vanilli DJ" then drücken Sie die Taste Synchronisation (press the synchronization button) :p
Laz219 11:28 AM - 1 February, 2011
That really isn't true, as much as I find sync pointless, there are a million DJs around with no talent that just use the visuals in SSL to be able to mix.
PMYSKO 4:23 PM - 1 February, 2011
If they need visuals they are still learning how to play
Laz219 11:14 PM - 1 February, 2011
Exactly, but they don't need talent to be able to fake it just because the use SSL rather than something with sync.
PMYSKO 11:19 PM - 1 February, 2011
Good point
Evon 2:02 PM - 4 February, 2011
I was actually against autosync, but changed my view on it as my playstyle has changes a bit.
Many Serato djs are afraid that their credability will vanish if this feature is implemented. I understand that. I would say its a tad more Traktor djs around here in Europe than Serato djs and I don't think the Traktor djs have less credability than the Serato DJs, they are only able to do more.

I never see Serato DJs play more than 2 decks. And by more than 2 decks I'm not talking about beatmatch 2 tables and scratch on the 3rd deck. Or beatmatching 3 in its orginal BPM. I'm talking about continously layering loops and tunes Richie Hawtin style. It's just too risky for Serato djs to do. Even the best of the best would screw this up at some point.
Don't post youtube videos of djs mixing more than 3 decks for 2 minutes. I'm talking about entire live sets.
I like beatmatching 2 decks, mixing some funky housetunes. But I want to be able to express myself musically and create energy with more decks.
Then you could use the good old "stop being lazy lazy or buy another dvs" argument. Even the best of the best doesn't do 4 deck sets witout some form of a sync feature. And lets face it. Noone in their right mind would spend hours practicing something you can do with a push of a button.
Thats like going to school and study a occupation that doesn't exsist anymore becuase the machines has taken over, and that role and are no longer needed.
Being a dj is also about expressing yourself with your music and creat a vibe and I'm all for funktions that can help me achieve that.
americanboy 4:52 PM - 4 February, 2011
i see no reason to add this button. that's one big reason why i use serato.

if you need it beatmached, use the bridge. there you have also all this fancy controller options from ableton and a lot more effects than in serato. and you can save your live performances.
AKIEM 4:52 PM - 4 February, 2011
^ I agree

I am firmly anti-auto-anything, except when the software gets to the point where you have four decks + six samples = 10 tracks all unsynced.

Yes, I wish that the sp6 would all sync - that way I would not really have to use Ableton to do some of the same stuff.

BUT - why dont I just go ahead and use Ableton in the first place?

there is already a sync option in place - so I dont think it really needs to be added
Evon 11:42 AM - 5 February, 2011
Quote:
i see no reason to add this button. that's one big reason why i use serato.


Using a product because it doesn't have a feature doesn't make sense to me at all.
You think you get more cred as a dj for this? I think Serato loosing more customers because of the lack of this feature. EDM djs are tired of beatmatching 2 decks and traktor is the only logical choice if you want to be more creative.
I don't think Serato would loose one single customer if they implemented this feature to be honest.

I'm using the bridge for home use. But would never do it live. It crashed 3 times on a span of 2 hours. It's still unfinished and my computer specs are little too low to get it to run optimal.
AKIEM 4:18 PM - 5 February, 2011
use a better computer and wait for the bridge to be stable
"The Original" djGROOVE 9:17 AM - 6 February, 2011
I really could care less if Auto Beat Match is put in or not. It is very simple, at least i think so?? If that's what you want then buy what you need (Traktor, PCDJ, Mixvibes, etc...).

I just bought SSL1 in 2007 AND I love it...Tried Traktor in Sam Ash DJ Dept (Philly), it was nice & tight; tried Numark Cue download demo, it was ok took some gettin used to tho (Never tried the others??). Went to 4/5 clubs in Philly...the DJ's were using SSL, bought it!! Then practice w/both 1200s & CD Decks, which i prefer..they're lighter.

Seen other DJ's use some of the aforementioned programs...some rocked it & some sucked. So programs nor add-ons matter. Who uses SSL??? Those that like it or love it. I still use 1.9.2 until I get a better PC. But Last nite (Fri) the crowd of 100-120ppl who ol skool jammed, line danced, dougied, disco'd & dropped it low w/no hands while i made it rain w/peter piper gettin bodied black & yellow by whateva up in da club til the cops came knockin...didn't care IF i had SSL or IF I could beat match (Even tho I did + scratch-ins + drops + horns...you get it ) they were there to just have FUN & We did (It was the clubs 2yr Anniv Party + My Bday).

But what I really needed was for SSL to be compatible w/ALL DJ CD Decks (I use NDX800's -Love'm too bcuz they work for me) so I could have used my own Deck effects (SSL Effects aren't as good as NDX800s or the P-909's...IMO). To me compatibility w/ALL CD Decks via down loadable Zip updates for what YOU need to operate your decks effects & special features would be more worth the science behind it than Auto Beats... Madd Respect 4 All you DJ's...Keep On Rockin It. Peace
eladron 1:09 PM - 11 February, 2011
Quote:
I was actually against autosync, but changed my view on it as my playstyle has changes a bit.
Many Serato djs are afraid that their credability will vanish if this feature is implemented. I understand that. I would say its a tad more Traktor djs around here in Europe than Serato djs and I don't think the Traktor djs have less credability than the Serato DJs, they are only able to do more.

I never see Serato DJs play more than 2 decks. And by more than 2 decks I'm not talking about beatmatch 2 tables and scratch on the 3rd deck. Or beatmatching 3 in its orginal BPM. I'm talking about continously layering loops and tunes Richie Hawtin style. It's just too risky for Serato djs to do. Even the best of the best would screw this up at some point.
Don't post youtube videos of djs mixing more than 3 decks for 2 minutes. I'm talking about entire live sets.
I like beatmatching 2 decks, mixing some funky housetunes. But I want to be able to express myself musically and create energy with more decks.
Then you could use the good old "stop being lazy lazy or buy another dvs" argument. Even the best of the best doesn't do 4 deck sets witout some form of a sync feature. And lets face it. Noone in their right mind would spend hours practicing something you can do with a push of a button.
Thats like going to school and study a occupation that doesn't exsist anymore becuase the machines has taken over, and that role and are no longer needed.
Being a dj is also about expressing yourself with your music and creat a vibe and I'm all for funktions that can help me achieve that.


+1 on this
0boz0 2:24 PM - 12 February, 2011
Look at the clubs, cdj, controllers ect are taking the place of technics and now there discontinued it will only speed up the process of evolution.

Having skills on the deck via beatmatching, scratching, remixing are all vaid and to want to add features that allow a product to evolve is common sence.

Just becuase a feature is there dosent mean you have to use it or it suddenly makes all you turntablists or the product less crediable.

If you have skills no matter what you use or how you use it wont stop you getting noticed.
dj cool breeze 9:14 AM - 14 February, 2011
I agree with a lot of the suggestions that are giving; being able to play WMA files would be nice, as well as the AUTO BEAT match for those who desire it.

**Make these optional applications that persons can download and install if they desire.....giving those who brought and paid for SERATO the option of being heard and the functions created and utilized....as their own choice.
Evon 10:45 PM - 14 February, 2011
Quote:
Look at the clubs, cdj, controllers ect are taking the place of technics and now there discontinued it will only speed up the process of evolution.


I really do think technics are going to be around for a long long time. I actually think CDJs are going to vanish before the technics. Don't think the scratch djs are going to give up the Technics anytime soon. When everyone goes DVS and midicontrollers there will always be some djs that will make vinyl their thing. I think a combination of midicontroller and turntables will be the future. NS6 or S4 with turntables.
Gary Tracey 8:30 AM - 17 February, 2011
Just want to make 1 thing clear, being able to beat match is not talent, i have used my trusty 1210's and mixer for years and loved them, I can beat match in my sleep, however since I started laptop djing and using various software I have used auto sync and I don't think it takes away from the art form in fact it adds to it, if you have talent, it means that you can concentrate on more creative aspects of mixing, I use auto sync for creating live on the fly mashups that really entertain the crowd, which at the end of the day is what we are there for, not to be able to play 2 records at the same speed, I really don't think any dancefloor
really cares if you are beat matching or not, as long as you are entertaining them and making them want to dance.
Dj Dakota 8:39 AM - 24 February, 2011
Booooo to Auto Beat matching.
Mickey Delen 2:15 PM - 1 March, 2011
Quote:
Booooo to Auto Beat matching.


+1
Dj Kwami 1:43 AM - 7 April, 2011
All this talk about VDJ, Serato and a auto sync tool makes no sense at the end of the day people in a club or house party don't want to know if you using a auto sync tool or doing it manually weather with serato or VDJ what the want to know if that they come out to have a good time and that the dj can make the have the best time of there lives. It's not always about how much you know and what u can do but how u can survive in the entertainment industry.I'm no big time dj I use Vdj but I bought the ssl because i believe that there is a lot more to learn and explore as a dj weather i'm a pro now or later. A real dj isn't someone who could jus use one thing but can mix using anything at anytime and any place thing about that first before you start to talk about being a professional dj.
Voyager529 1:55 AM - 7 April, 2011
I recently fell back in love with the latest release of (competing product that may or may not rhyme with "Pork"), for one particular reason - while yes, you can autosync tracks themselves, I'd be perfectly content if there was a way to autosync the sampler. The Bridge would still be the gold standard for doing complicated sets and on-the-fly remixes and mashups, but even adding one or two drum loops to my sets have made lots of songs sound a whole lot better and my transitions more seamless. Without autosync on those, I'm either stuck letting the loop determine the tempo of the set or killing the loop during the transition. Don't want it between tracks? fine. But at least give it to the sampler.

Joey
Vicious Vibes 12:59 AM - 19 June, 2011
Quote:
Quote:
i see no reason to add this button. that's one big reason why i use serato.


Using a product because it doesn't have a feature doesn't make sense to me at all.
You think you get more cred as a dj for this? I think Serato loosing more customers because of the lack of this feature. EDM djs are tired of beatmatching 2 decks and traktor is the only logical choice if you want to be more creative.
I don't think Serato would loose one single customer if they implemented this feature to be honest.

I'm using the bridge for home use. But would never do it live. It crashed 3 times on a span of 2 hours. It's still unfinished and my computer specs are little too low to get it to run optimal.



EDM djs are tired of beatmatching songs.... come on mate did you reali just say that... theres djs out there that use 4 decks pure vinyl without a hic up... take andy c 3 decks every weeks 30 - 40 tunes in an hour set without goin out of time once... now to all the house and techno djs (the main traktor users) if they cant keep that simple beat or loop in time then they dont deserve to be where they are... these djs only like the auto sync so they can big up there ego chanting to the crowed insted of gettin down to the music... yes i understand from a creative point you could do abit more with auto sync but it only takes 10 - 15s to get a song in time anyways and is'nt that the fun of this art... geting the tracks in time being creative on the mixer effects etc and KEEPING the tracks in time....
Onekickmusic 12:20 AM - 20 June, 2011
Quote:
now to all the house and techno djs (the main traktor users) if they cant keep that simple beat or loop in time then they dont deserve to be where they are... these djs only like the auto sync so they can big up there ego chanting to the crowed insted of gettin down to the music... yes i understand from a creative point you could do abit more with auto sync but it only takes 10 - 15s to get a song in time anyways and is'nt that the fun of this art... geting the tracks in time being creative on the mixer effects etc and KEEPING the tracks in time....


If the DJ is the is the natural center of attention in a venue, the DJ needs a presence the same way a band do. Also IMO it is no less fun to use your extra time creatively than beatmatch by ear, so why would your sacrifice the quality of your mix to maintain your elitest preconceptions that you're a better DJ than a software DJ because you don't use sync, even if they sound better and the crowd prefers them?
kbscholar 6:48 PM - 20 June, 2011
Quote:
Just want to make 1 thing clear, being able to beat match is not talent, i have used my trusty 1210's and mixer for years and loved them, I can beat match in my sleep, however since I started laptop djing and using various software I have used auto sync and I don't think it takes away from the art form in fact it adds to it, if you have talent, it means that you can concentrate on more creative aspects of mixing, I use auto sync for creating live on the fly mashups that really entertain the crowd, which at the end of the day is what we are there for, not to be able to play 2 records at the same speed, I really don't think any dancefloor
really cares if you are beat matching or not, as long as you are entertaining them and making them want to dance.


The rapture is near. Beat matching does take talent. I'm sure you can beat match in your bedroom, but try staying on point in a club while layering EDM tracks over each other is another story. Frankly, I'm sick of these "Auto-sync" dj's. Why don't you just make a mix on Ableton, convert it to a CD, then pop it in, and act like you are hitting buttons & such.

Not only is beatmatching an essential part of deejaying, it is fun to do. I thinks its satisfying to be able to have 2 tracks locked in within seconds, layering both, while riding the pitch, staying on point.

If Auto-Sync was the only option available, I would quit deejaying. Damn microwave deejay's.
yopyop 8:13 PM - 23 June, 2011
Quote:
Beat matching does take talent.


It takes times and work, but certainly not talent.

Fill a dancefloor and keep it that way is talent.
kbscholar 8:25 PM - 23 June, 2011
Quote:
Quote:
Beat matching does take talent.


It takes times and work, but certainly not talent.

Fill a dancefloor and keep it that way is talent.



Try keeping 2 house tracks on point while you are layering over a slippery techno track over them, for a total of 3 tracks at the same time. Also, from your bio picture, it looks like you play on cdj's which is way easier to stay on point.
fresh317 3:11 PM - 19 November, 2011
auto-sync? auto match? really? seriously? If you are even concerned with such a function; you have absolutely no clue what you are doing....YOU"RE LOST!. DO the knowledge & get your science down. Learn to manually count bpms....learn needle drops on vinyl; learn what count the track starts on......know the key it's in.......know whether its a 4, 8, 16, or 32.

I laugh at the comment about professionalism is making people dance. NO IT IS NOT.
DJ'ing was and will always be about true skill.......can you mix; can you cut; can you juggle.?
If you can cut or beat juggle; tap juggle----sorry to break the news; but you're just a schmuck that THINKS he's a djay.

If you never learned how to really get nice on vinyl.......what makes you think you'll be some super djay on serato by using auto-match........At the end of the day; REAL dj's will know you're whack/fake/unskilled/clueless.

Do the science before you find an easy way to make your dreams of being a DJ come true. LOL

for real.
fresh317 3:37 PM - 19 November, 2011
correction:

If you CAN'T cut or beat juggle; tap juggle----sorry to break the news; but you're just a schmuck that THINKS he's a djay.
Better Living 10:28 PM - 19 November, 2011
christ... I can't believe I'm weighing in on this debate, but:

I think it's all in how you use the technology, and although I think comparing traktor to SSL is a little 'apples to oranges,' it's just blurring the line between DJ, Remixer, Producer, etc. (when used 'properly,' anyway)

For your basic mixing of deck a > deck B > deck A, etc, I think that using the auto sync feature is pretty lame. If you're not doing anything else with your time, you may as well beatmatch manually, and it's obviously a useful skill if you ever intend to play out on something that's not your native gear. I'm sure we've all seen X amount of youtube videos of lame djs banging out favorite song after favorite song, with no real flow, respect for phrase matching, timing, and jabbing away at the sync button. I do not defend this position.

For mixing on multiple decks at once, it guess I would say it's forgivable. Ideally, if you're going to mix 3 or 4 decks, you damn well better 'Jeff Mills' the situation, and rock it manually. At the very least, if you're manually beatmatching two tracks, and maybe auto-syncing the 3rd, then use a little finesse. Like the above scenario, there are way too many videos of people slamming together multideck mixes that are just god-awful. If you're totally killing it with a looong mix of 2 tracks and want to pepper in a 3rd, then yeah, whatever.

If you're totally cutting up the music with layers and layers of loops, effects, multiple tracks, a capellas, samples, etc (a la Richie Hawtin or Ean Golden), its definitely allowable, and can be a useful creative tool. These are all things that, unless you have multiple hands, or an EXCELLENT midi controller for everything that's not directly controlled by the turntables (sample banks pitch and volume, effects parameters, etc), you just can't do with a 'traditional' DVS like Serato. However, this totally blurs the line between a regular DJ mix, and live-set by a producer. At the end of the day, I think that if you're using Sync to help manage your time, but still WORKING HARD behind the decks, then you've totally used it the right way. Although he is literally the poster child for Traktor, go check out that vid from a few years ago of Richie Hawtin explaining his traktor set up...

Why would you use auto-sync with a DVS instead of using ableton? I think it's fair to say that it's a good option for remixing/mashingup/heavy-layering, without giving up actually being a DJ. You can mix like you normally would, but if you want to do a live remix/mashup/whatever, you have way more flexible options. (or, you could use something like the bridge if you use Ableton for other applications) Personally, I'm intrigued by the option to do all sorts of things on the fly once in a while with an auto-sync feature. However, if I had to do an entire set on Ableton, I think I'd gouge my eyes out.*

However, I think Serato is really a different beast than Traktor. SSL has primarily been about using a control source (timecode vinyl or cd), on a 'traditional' player (TT or CDJ), whereas Traktor has always had better options/integration of external controllers. I think that more 'controllerist' DJs are the ones that make best use of the sync feature, so it was a natural progression for Traktor to add a sync feature (or maybe, for controllerists to tend toward traktor. I forget which came first. Chicken or the egg, you know?) It doesn't make it any less professional... it's just different. Nor is it any less professional to DJ with traktor as a DVS and simply not use sync.

Do I think Serato needs an auto-sync feature? Not really. For serato users, it seems to be a non-issue, and traktor has that sector of the market already covered, anyway. Do I think that auto-sync is a horrible scourge upon DJs? Definitely not. There are always going to be bad DJs that use auto-sync, regardless of what company it comes from, and there are going to be good DJs that can really capitalize on technology, without sacrificing their technical skill.

*Disclaimer: I was a SSL-1 user for a long time, until I finally sold my DJ gear. (I had aging gear, it was time to upgrade anyway, and I needed cash for grad school applications.) I'm looking to get back into DJing again, and as much as I'd love to go with Serato again, I'm thinking I may go with the Kontrol S4. I'm looking for 4 deck options in an all-in-one controller/soundcard, that leaves me squarely with either the Xone XD, Kontrol S4, or Pioneer DDJ-T1 (I guess there's the NS6, but I've never been a fan of Numark gear. And how I wish the S1 had 4 decks, or the DX had better jog wheels). In terms of price/features/functionality, I'm totally leaning towards the S4. Hence, I'm intrigued by the possibility of layering loops, stems, a capellas, samples, etc, but I'm not looking to become one of those hacks on youtube anytime soon, either. AND, I can still keep a copy of SSL on my laptop, so I can still play out on 'standard' gear.
thebuttonfreak 3:30 AM - 22 November, 2011
DJ play music made by other people. If you are the center of the event than that means you're jumping up and down like a tool "I played this dawg....I played this". The biggest problem with the american dance culture is that for some reason the dj is now the center of the performance. People are expecting something, so idiots jump up and down like tools. Sure, you could call this "presence", but at the end of the day you're just up there playing music made by other people. If you're really good at it then nobody is looking at you.
thebuttonfreak 3:38 AM - 22 November, 2011
Point #1, a dj plays music, he doesn't play instruments. He will never take the place or provide the same experience as a band. He's not supposed to and trying to make the entire thing look cheap and cheezy.

Point #2 I know this will fall on deaf ears (pun!) but people who mix are engaged in "active" listening. They aren't standing up there wondering if they should pump their fist again (I just pumped my fist a minute ago, is it too soon to pump it again?", or fuck up a perfectly good tune with a shitty filter while you make the "I have to take a shit" face. You're up there mixing and listening and getting deep into the groove in a way that sync doesn't allow you to do. You are "inside" the groove and wen your job is to play grooves to make people dance the best place is inside, not on the outside worrying about stupid shit like what kind of pose you should be making or how minutes until your next shit pioneer effects breakdown.

Quote:
If the DJ is the is the natural center of attention in a venue, the DJ needs a presence the same way a band do. Also IMO it is no less fun to use your extra time creatively than beatmatch by ear, so why would your sacrifice the quality of your mix to maintain your elitest preconceptions that you're a better DJ than a software DJ because you don't use sync, even if they sound better and the crowd prefers them?
AKIEM 3:48 AM - 22 November, 2011
Point #1, you forgot about Turntablism eh?
thebuttonfreak 7:36 PM - 22 November, 2011
I know. That's really the only time I want to see a dj front and center. I'll watch Kid Koala, but if I go see Derrick Carter play I really don't even want to physically see him.
AKIEM 7:40 PM - 22 November, 2011
Just checking
PorkyG 3:52 PM - 5 January, 2012
It's not hard to beat match, I personally don't have a use for it as it removes a big part of the fun and accomplishment in mixing. With that said I am never against additional features & I'll elaborate that in the shortest way I can.

If some people use Traktor (biggest competitor for Serato) & one of their biggest reasons is because of beat matching then Serato improves their chance at more customers, those customers generate extra funds for Serato and shows them adding to an already great product works & perhaps we'll see more changes such as more effects tossed in the software. That I think we can all agree on is one thing we'd all like to see, more effects. So if adding beat matching gets customers (it would) then I'm all for it as it would more than likely lead to bigger and better things.
DJ Samples 7:54 PM - 6 January, 2012
Quote:
Oh, another thing- For the so called pro's >

Whats so great about playing digital files that sound like "KA -KA" on a large sound system? You are NO longer Playing with a beautiful analog sound.
Does this make you any less of a Dj? Other than the fact that your cheating because your not carrying all you crates of records and playing real Vinyl??? What makes this any different from using a so called "cheating" auto sync??

Bla Bla Bla
DJ Samples 8:16 PM - 6 January, 2012
Because that is the art mixing and the most fundamental part of not only mixing, but being a DJ and artist. My 10 year old daughter can auto sync- but I'm teaching her to learn the art of beat matching because that's what makes you an artist rather than some kid who bought a some CDJ's or VDJ, loaded them up, synced them and now thinks he's a sick DJ because he can move between two perfectly matched tracks. It's a soul thing I guess.
Besides I thought we were talking about beat matching and auto sync, not playing digital files. Digital files are played through records that you have to mix yourself in Serato in case you didn't know. Besides, what do you think cd's are- analog? Sorry brutha.
I will agree with you that analog, especially vinyl, is the best sound and warmest sound quality possible. A pristine record sounds better than anything.
R-A-C 12:38 PM - 11 January, 2012
could be merged with that one serato.com
DJMIYAGI 2:51 AM - 15 January, 2012
I can understand an auto sync for newbies...but SL is a PRO software. I learned on pcdj. No sync, tempo matching display, or waveforms. Then upgraded to SL. It made things easier I'll admit. But when I got my NS7, the sync button was never pushed. Not even once. Couldnt even say what color it glows. I prefer my technics anyway. If you cant cover the computer screen and still beatmatch without the aid of sync, pre-analyzed bpms, or tempo/beat match display, go with vdj or something else. The whole point of dvs systems is for djs who want that old school vinyl mixing that they had when you had to lug around wax crates. I never did. But in my opinion, if you really want to experience how the dj scene has led up to all the features, kick it old school. Before software came along the set up was 2 decks and a mixer. No fx, videos, midi controllers. Im not saying if you use any of the before mentioned features that youre not a real dj, but try a gig with only 2 decks and a mixer and nothing else. Then maybe some people out there will stop complaing about dumb sh**.

Sorry for the rants guys. But its not only on my mind Im sure.
Auto sync/beat match in SL.....hell no.
R-A-C 5:40 AM - 15 January, 2012
Quote:
Auto sync/beat match in SL.....hell no.

i'm afraid yes, serato confirmed that it will come. just no certain date yet
icb 9:32 AM - 15 January, 2012
Quote:
Quote:
Auto sync/beat match in SL.....hell no.

i'm afraid yes, serato confirmed that it will come. just no certain date yet


They confirmed it where and when ?

Sync for ITCH is quite understandable and needed but for DVS system like SSL , it's just not needed, what's the point when you use pitch to control speed.... So I'm interested where can I see they confirmed sunc in SSL ?
R-A-C 1:39 PM - 15 January, 2012
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Auto sync/beat match in SL.....hell no.

i'm afraid yes, serato confirmed that it will come. just no certain date yet


They confirmed it where and when ?

in the thread i linked above
nik39 1:55 PM - 15 January, 2012
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Auto sync/beat match in SL.....hell no.

i'm afraid yes, serato confirmed that it will come. just no certain date yet


They confirmed it where and when ?

in the thread i linked above

Uhm... no. The thread which you have linked to last doesn't have any posting from any Rane or Serato employee.
icb 2:38 PM - 15 January, 2012
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Auto sync/beat match in SL.....hell no.

i'm afraid yes, serato confirmed that it will come. just no certain date yet


They confirmed it where and when ?

in the thread i linked above


Can u pls link me the post where it says that ?
David Vicuña 4:44 PM - 15 January, 2012
Hi guys

It was me asking Shaun from technical support, and he said so.
I just mailed also support@serato.com to ask for an approximate date. I will post here when they answer.

I paste Shaun's answer here:
>>>>
Hello David,

Thank you for using Rane hardware and Serato's Scratch Live software.

I have been told that sync is coming, but Serato has not specified when it will be implemented.

Feel free to e-mail the guys at Serato directly for more information -->> Support@serato.com or call +64 9 304 0899 (Mon–Fri, 10am–6pm NZT)
R-A-C 11:02 PM - 15 January, 2012
Quote:
I just mailed also support@serato.com to ask for an approximate date. I will post here when they answer.

nice work again, thanks once more :-)
DJYourmoms 12:32 AM - 17 January, 2012
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

NO No nononononon

No

NO NO nO
dpetree 3:43 AM - 17 January, 2012
Looks like Apples Move with FinalCut pro X

forget about the pro software,,lets make it so beginners and use it and sell millions of copies, who cares who we piss off
gfunk 9:32 AM - 17 January, 2012
If the syncing comes, don't use it if you don't like it. Personally I think it would be useful in the sample player but wouldn't use it for the main decks. Whether newbies, dj-fakers experts, professionals or whoever chooses to use it or abuse it or not makes no difference to me; I just continue to DJ in my way. That's the most important thing.
R-A-C 2:06 PM - 17 January, 2012
Quote:
don't use it if you don't like it.

A M E N
Vicious Vibes 12:07 PM - 21 January, 2012
back to vinyl it is then, its a shame as the majority of the users of this program do not want sync... SL3 for sale open to offers :-D
R-A-C 1:03 PM - 21 January, 2012
Quote:
back to vinyl it is then, its a shame as the majority of the users of this program do not want sync... SL3 for sale open to offers :-D

lol
Laz219 9:30 AM - 24 January, 2012
I fail to see how having the option in the software to sync has any effect on the user whatsoever.
If you want to use it, use it. If not- don't and how does it possibly affect you if the option is there?
DjMistaCeee 6:30 AM - 20 February, 2012
i have been djing for approximately 6 years now......this past year has been more serious than any of the other because i have consistent venues every friday and saturday night, mixed in with parties throughout the month randomly.....i started out using atomic mp3 player, graduated to a vci-300, and last summer when my business took off, i got the NS6! for a while i was the guy that loved house music "guido" from ny that thought the best part about dj'ing was bumping the beats and my fist at the same time.....I am 27 now and a little more mature, a little......altho i will never change my guido roots, i have found it to be repetitive as far as performing at events with the mixer that i have all because of the AUTOSYNC.....its getting boring and its the same thing everynight......recently i started doing some research on the 62 and i ended up purchasing it the other day as well as 2 numark ttx-usb turntables, and an akai mpd26 with an ableton start up package.....i am excited more now than I have ever been before because I know I have a challenge ahead of me but at the same time, know that I will have the opportunity to learn the trade! with all of this being said, at the end of the day, if all you want to do is hit the sync button and play music, altho theres more to it than that, you should be allowed to do so! who cares.....but i got news for ya.....it gets REAL BORING! as long as you are happy, and if you are lucky enough to get hired as a professional and your clients are happy, you should'nt 2nd guess yourself....love of music is held by more than just the people that dedicate the time to learn to bpm match manually....this is just my opinion tho :-)
DJ Unique 6:40 AM - 20 February, 2012
Good for you DjMistaCeee.
Hard too read your post without paragraphs though.
DjMistaCeee 6:44 AM - 20 February, 2012
Quote:
Good for you DjMistaCeee.
Hard too read your post without paragraphs though.


sorry i am new here! learning more and more about the industry everyday has got to be one of the most fun things about dj'ing! ill clean up the grammar!
DJRyanPatrick 5:17 PM - 10 May, 2012
auto sync is the downfall of civilization. I can understand its use when using 4 decks or for live hardware remixes but for real stay away from sync!
DJ Pulsee 1:46 AM - 26 May, 2012
Quote:
i see no reason to add this button. that's one big reason why i use serato.

if you need it beatmached, use the bridge. there you have also all this fancy controller options from ableton and a lot more effects than in serato. and you can save your live performances.



+1
R-A-C 7:25 AM - 26 May, 2012
Quote:
I fail to see how having the option in the software to sync has any effect on the user whatsoever.
If you want to use it, use it. If not- don't and how does it possibly affect you if the option is there?

exactly
Sporadik Styles 5:10 PM - 27 May, 2012
Quote:
Quote:
i see no reason to add this button. that's one big reason why i use serato.



if you need it beatmached, use the bridge. there you have also all this fancy controller options from ableton and a lot more effects than in serato. and you can save your live performances.






+1


+1

Why don't people just stand there and let the software do all the work for them. Sad that people won't need any skill anymore. A feature like that is definatly a sad day for DJing. They should keep a feature like that in the entry level stuff.

Why even have DJs? just make software that u make a playlist and it matches everything for you. If DJs with vinyl and no features rocked parties for decades without, then how is this a needed feature?

Bad enough when dudes put their laptop in front of their mixer so you can't see whats going on and just stand there and stare at it all night with no emotion or charisma. Now they won't even have to do anything other than show up!
djmalachi1 11:14 PM - 27 May, 2012
It takes a seasoned DJ a slide and one maybe two tweaks of the pitch adjust to match a beat. 5-10 seconds top. If you don't understand why they don't put it in, then you really don't get DJing. It's about feeling the music. Not pushing buttons. There's other software for that. That's my 2 c.
R-A-C 1:23 PM - 2 June, 2012
i agree on the dummy effect and that way too many people think they're djs just because they can use vdj with mediocre results at best but i'm afraid this train has left the station long ago.
today auto tempo is a basic feature and those who want it just use any other software because all others have it except SSL
Sporadik Styles 10:32 PM - 4 June, 2012
Quote:
i agree on the dummy effect and that way too many people think they're djs just because they can use vdj with mediocre results at best but i'm afraid this train has left the station long ago.

today auto tempo is a basic feature and those who want it just use any other software because all others have it except SSL


I understand how business works, but it appears to me as if Serato isn't going anywherea and is quite a standard. I'd rather they stay strong and keep the same bare bones layout and basic features for real DJs and let other software use auto features etc.
DJPRIME 7:40 PM - 7 June, 2012
try to auto beat match some good classic rock songs...let me know how the sneakers sound in the dryer...
gcastro723 1:13 AM - 8 June, 2012
I'll be honest at first I didnt like how I lost all my functionality when switch from my mixdeck w/ VDJ to SSL+Mixdeck but now I love it. As soon as my tables come in, i'm gonna learn how to pitch match by ear. I've yet to learn how to count the bpm manually... and i'll be honest, I use sync on VDJ, but NEVER live. The only time I use sync is when i'm making a mix cd and even then its for like 30 seconds. It depends on what you use sync for but idk i think its a bad call for SSL to get sync
PorkyG 1:33 PM - 5 August, 2012
I use vinyl mainly and it's my main preference but of course I have CDJ's as well but outside of gigs they're seldom used when playing for my own enjoyment. With that said, I understand when some say that the auto beat match is not being a real DJ but to say there shouldn't be a beat match option because it is killing this or killing that is so damn idiotic it's ridiculous. Bottom line, skill trumps a sync button & if you're skilled no one with a sync button should even come remotely close to what you can do so why the hell are you so adamant about them not including the option.

I say add the beat match option, the more less skilled DJ's out there the more they make me look better. I welcome it, add more lazy DJ's it just makes me more money.
Temporal Attack 3:43 AM - 17 August, 2012
This is the first "dj forum" I have even posted in But here I go.. I would like to introduce my self here by saying I have been spinning for 16 years. I was a mere 14 years old and had an obsession with audio equipment,loud thumping bass and any type of electronically created music. I then saw my first live performance by a DJ and decided that is what I wanted to do. I then saw how much equipment cost and started mowing lawns, picking up dog turds, raking leaves and whatever I could do to save money. And at long last bought my first setup and still had to work for my growing vinyl habit.

I have never let a single vinyl I bought leave my possession and my vinyl collection over the years grew to outright HUGE. I no longer counted crates but the number of bookshelves I had. I learned to beat match and prided myself on how well I could do this. I started getting gigs mostly house and trance and playing around with scratching, juggling in my bedroom.

I remember going to some hip hop dj battles when I first started and hearing some of the DJ's complain about people using stickers and tape and pretty much call it cheating. This later became standard for any scratch DJ and is never complained about now. And since most of my gigs were demanded house or trance I remember thinking anyone who mixed and had to touch the spindal, platter or label didnt know how to properly use the pitch control to adjust the beats in sync and therefore wasnt a good DJ. I got so good at beat matching I Could set records to stay "in sync" for extremely long periods of time without touching the pitch control even. I still remember at a gig I had to take a leak so bad and I matched my tunes and asked another dy to mix them for me if I didnt get back in time. When I got back he was amazed at how the beats just synced up with no correcting at all.

Later in 2005 life happened to me, wife, kid, bills, late nights at the clubs it all didnt go together for me. And I sold my equipment but was stubborn about my vinyl and telling my wife that it could never be replaced since it was vinyl. I got a good paying job after this and got ahead in life. About a year ago a friend of mine had some decks for sale at an unbeatable price and i bought them and found an old PMC 07 mixer in mint condition for a low price and started playing around again.

After realizing that every dj now is using software to spin I decided to look into this computer mumbo jumbo and found i could do things that I never thought were possible as a DJ and how this has evolved so far since the vinyl days. And how a song costs around $1 instead of $10-$15 per song.

Now that I have established the fact that I have "done my work" I would like to say computer djing is fairly new to me. I bought the cheapest emulation software on the market just to try the computer thing, it doesnt have syncing in vinyl mode. However being on the market right now for good software instead of the cheapest out there I wonder why serato doesnt have the sync feature yet others do? Since I can beatmatch with my eyes closed and it has become a minor part of my sets why do I need to waste effort or time on this? I dont want to hear I can beatmatch in 10 seconds because I call any DJ out who says this to match beats in 10 seconds then let the two tracks play 60 seconds or more without touching anything and we will see how well you are really "matched" it takes longer than this to get a true match. Anyone can learn to ride the pitch control and make it match....

So now comes my delima. Rane makes the best mixers I have ever used so do I save the money and buy the Rane 62 with serato or do I buy the rane 56s and a competitors interface and vinyl package for half the cost and the software has more features than serato?

Anyone who has hated on this subject has usually responded with its still easy to beat match with serato just line up the arrows then fine tune it. That is still not "true vinyl" because I remember when your headphones were the only aid you had not visuals. Plus no programmed que points and loops and samples. If your really "true" to art then why are you even using software? Why not just use vinyl? If Serato is truly emulating vinyl why are there que points?

And my final point is if you are truly a skilled DJ why do people use "skip protection" or whatever your choice of software calls it? I remember when your needle fell out of the groove it skipped and with some of the great scratching I have heard recently I dont think that rough handling of the record would be possible while staying in the same groove...

My point is everyone is using the software to perform actions not possible with real vinyl even if its skip protection or beat syncing.... A rookie DJ should be easy to hear with or without beat syncing....................................
AKIEM 4:07 AM - 17 August, 2012
What you are looking for is called ITCH
Temporal Attack 4:36 AM - 17 August, 2012
Quote:
What you are looking for is called ITCH
The thing is now Im not giging Im doing this for the true enjoyment of it. And one of the things I regret not doing is getting better at scratching and juggling.. Plus the new rane mixers come with SSL not itch.. Even for spinning house I cant stand the little jog wheels of the controllers since I have used vinyl for so long.. I rarely spin house anymore and Im into breaks and hip hop.

Plz dont get me wrong just because I had gigs spinning house doesnt mean I thought it was the best.. Now that I spin for myself I spin what I like....
AKIEM 5:04 AM - 17 August, 2012
I just dont understand why anyone would use a turntable or cdj for that matter and then override it with a sync button.
gcastro723 5:07 AM - 17 August, 2012
Quote:
I just dont understand why anyone would use a turntable or cdj for that matter and then override it with a sync button.


Personally, i'd use it for emergency situations, like not having time to manually adjust it because the song is ending and whatnot. But thats about the only reason...
Temporal Attack 5:19 AM - 17 August, 2012
Quote:
I just dont understand why anyone would use a turntable or cdj for that matter and then override it with a sync button.


Think about it from the other aspect... Why would someone Overide vinyl with a computer and time coded vinyl unless you had more control over the tune? Why is there the best equipment and the highest price with less features?

Is lining up two sets of arrows that much different from hitting a beat sync button?
Temporal Attack 5:29 AM - 17 August, 2012
Personally, i'd use it for emergency situations, like not having time to manually adjust it because the song is ending and whatnot. But thats about the only reason...

And another good point it would be there if you really needed it for whatever situation if you choose not to use it regularly but needed it on the fly..

No matter how you look at it DJing has evolved we can all continue to sit here and say because you use a certain feature this makes you less of a DJ or we can look to the people that pay pays the bills "the crowd" and see what they think.. Thats what matters the most is the audience. And if you had an "emergency" and no way to fix it there would be some dissatisfied fans....
AKIEM 6:15 PM - 20 August, 2012
Quote:
Quote:
I just dont understand why anyone would use a turntable or cdj for that matter and then override it with a sync button.


Think about it from the other aspect... Why would someone Overide vinyl with a computer and time coded vinyl unless you had more control over the tune? Why is there the best equipment and the highest price with less features?

Is lining up two sets of arrows that much different from hitting a beat sync button?


Time code vinyl does not "override" the computer, it controls the computer - pretty much the oposite.

BEST does not mean the most gimmicks crammed in.
AKIEM 6:16 PM - 20 August, 2012
Quote:
Personally, i'd use it for emergency situations, like not having time to manually adjust it because the song is ending and whatnot. But thats about the only reason...

And another good point it would be there if you really needed it for whatever situation if you choose not to use it regularly but needed it on the fly..

No matter how you look at it DJing has evolved we can all continue to sit here and say because you use a certain feature this makes you less of a DJ or we can look to the people that pay pays the bills "the crowd" and see what they think.. Thats what matters the most is the audience. And if you had an "emergency" and no way to fix it there would be some dissatisfied fans....


This is professional equipment made for people who know how to handle "emergencies"
R-A-C 7:50 AM - 1 October, 2012
okay so auto tempo and sync is evil :-P

but what about the other features that are not possible with a default 1210 either? loops or cues for example. are they okay?
i mean shouldn't it be so that everything that the standard turntable doesn't have is evil? would be fair, right?

so why are loops okay but auto tempo isn't? are the digital features classified differently?
AKIEM 4:03 PM - 1 October, 2012
The point is not that it's beyond what you can do with a 1200 only. Because for the most part these other features add a tool for you to use.

People call Auto-Sync a "tool", but it's actually not (in the same sense) it's an automated process. It does something for, and instead of you.

Add enough "auto-features" and why even have a DJ?

So it's not that it does something more then a 1200, no one hase a problem with video for example. It's that it is doing the what you are supposed to as a DJ.

Now, maybe you don't believe DJing is an Art Form, or mixing is part of it. Maybe you can't wait for the entire process to be completely automated, that's fine everyone has their own opinion of what makes it art or just a job.

But every argument in favor of 'auto-sync' can be used in favor of any 'auto-feature'. And in that respect, it's not necessarily against auto-sync specifically it is against the entire notion of AUTOMATION.

If this were a factory, and automated robots do everything better, fine. But DJing is not a factory, it is an ART.

So speaking of 'loops' specifically. A loop is editing a song, in that respect it is doing something 'live' instead of pre-recorded. A loop is like an effect, it's like adding delay or echo. So in those regards it is adding a tool which you can artistically use.

And sure there are all kinds of counter arguments like, well you woul shave had to use two copies of vinyl and so on. And in a way that is absolutely true. Yet, when you use two sets of vinyl and go 'back to back' it's realy a different outcome, looks different sounds different... Looping is really not a replacement in that sense.


I'm pretty sure in the near future every system will offer 'auto-sync', and the real reason is to attract costumers who are too lazy to learn the ART of DJing. The same type people are going to have their 'auto-selection' as well. And full automation, and everyone will be happy because all you will ave to do is pretend to turn knobs and pose.
icb 4:13 PM - 1 October, 2012
Quote:
The point is not that it's beyond what you can do with a 1200 only. Because for the most part these other features add a tool for you to use.

People call Auto-Sync a "tool", but it's actually not (in the same sense) it's an automated process. It does something for, and instead of you.

Add enough "auto-features" and why even have a DJ?

So it's not that it does something more then a 1200, no one hase a problem with video for example. It's that it is doing the what you are supposed to as a DJ.

Now, maybe you don't believe DJing is an Art Form, or mixing is part of it. Maybe you can't wait for the entire process to be completely automated, that's fine everyone has their own opinion of what makes it art or just a job.

But every argument in favor of 'auto-sync' can be used in favor of any 'auto-feature'. And in that respect, it's not necessarily against auto-sync specifically it is against the entire notion of AUTOMATION.

If this were a factory, and automated robots do everything better, fine. But DJing is not a factory, it is an ART.

So speaking of 'loops' specifically. A loop is editing a song, in that respect it is doing something 'live' instead of pre-recorded. A loop is like an effect, it's like adding delay or echo. So in those regards it is adding a tool which you can artistically use.

And sure there are all kinds of counter arguments like, well you woul shave had to use two copies of vinyl and so on. And in a way that is absolutely true. Yet, when you use two sets of vinyl and go 'back to back' it's realy a different outcome, looks different sounds different... Looping is really not a replacement in that sense.


I'm pretty sure in the near future every system will offer 'auto-sync', and the real reason is to attract costumers who are too lazy to learn the ART of DJing. The same type people are going to have their 'auto-selection' as well. And full automation, and everyone will be happy because all you will ave to do is pretend to turn knobs and pose.


Beautifully said.
AKIEM 4:47 PM - 1 October, 2012
Quote:

Beautifully said.


Yeah, I should have got those typos.



One more thing - it seems to me some people who want sync are actually looking for an entirely different system - something more like Traktor, or better yet Ableton. Or even better yet so called sync for the SP6.

And yeah that's cool, there is an entirely different, yet related art form there. Some people call it button pushing or whatever - I call it "Live Production". And sync isn't even "sync" in that regard because it's foundation is the multitrack tape machine and the mixing board. "Unsynced" would have been a physical impossibility. So now because of computerization, the two turntables and the multitrack have become much closer together - but still NOT the same! Why use turntables when you want a multitrack? Why use a multitrack when you want turntables? And if you want both, use the bridge.

My assertion again, sync on a DVS has no artistic value, and is meant for people who are too lazy or otherwise do not want to learn the ART of DJing. OR people who do not know how to choose platforms and can't understand why two turntables do not behave like a tape machine.
DJ Unique 10:32 PM - 1 October, 2012
Quote:
The point is not that it's beyond what you can do with a 1200 only. Because for the most part these other features add a tool for you to use.

People call Auto-Sync a "tool", but it's actually not (in the same sense) it's an automated process. It does something for, and instead of you.

Add enough "auto-features" and why even have a DJ?

So it's not that it does something more then a 1200, no one hase a problem with video for example. It's that it is doing the what you are supposed to as a DJ.

Now, maybe you don't believe DJing is an Art Form, or mixing is part of it. Maybe you can't wait for the entire process to be completely automated, that's fine everyone has their own opinion of what makes it art or just a job.

But every argument in favor of 'auto-sync' can be used in favor of any 'auto-feature'. And in that respect, it's not necessarily against auto-sync specifically it is against the entire notion of AUTOMATION.

If this were a factory, and automated robots do everything better, fine. But DJing is not a factory, it is an ART.

So speaking of 'loops' specifically. A loop is editing a song, in that respect it is doing something 'live' instead of pre-recorded. A loop is like an effect, it's like adding delay or echo. So in those regards it is adding a tool which you can artistically use.

And sure there are all kinds of counter arguments like, well you woul shave had to use two copies of vinyl and so on. And in a way that is absolutely true. Yet, when you use two sets of vinyl and go 'back to back' it's realy a different outcome, looks different sounds different... Looping is really not a replacement in that sense.


I'm pretty sure in the near future every system will offer 'auto-sync', and the real reason is to attract costumers who are too lazy to learn the ART of DJing. The same type people are going to have their 'auto-selection' as well. And full automation, and everyone will be happy because all you will ave to do is pretend to turn knobs and pose.

Akiem For President!!!!
PMYSKO 12:41 AM - 2 October, 2012
Akiem For President? Yeah you got my vote
Sporadik Styles 1:05 AM - 2 October, 2012
Akiem did a great job of explaining this subject. IMO the same people that want auto-sync I bet are the same wack DJs who stare at their screen the whole night with no emotion on their face because they don't know what they're doing without DVS.

Sad
R-A-C 3:03 AM - 2 October, 2012
hehe well maybe i should have added a footnote that my post wasn't 100% serious :-P


reading through this thread makes me think beat matching would be the center of djing which is very far from reality. it's just one element in the process and one that's by far not that important as it sounds here. to be a good dj you need so much more than just getting the speed right. even for just a good transition you need to do much more than having the right tempo.
separating the 'honorable pros' from the rest that way is not even hypocritical but just plain silly.

i'm spinning for almost 20 years now and of course i can get the speed right by hand within maybe 15 seconds so can i go to the next club now and count on them booking me because of that? not so likely :-P
so what makes a dj good? the selection of songs? the order he plays them? the feel for what'd go well at a given time? something else?
simple answer: all of it.

sure the tempo should be right but that's only one piece of the whole system and not one of those that count big time.
most guests visit the disco because they wanna party and hear certain songs. most don't even know about beat matching let alone how it works and what different methods for doing it do exist. except a few die hard guys the audience couldn't care less as long as they get what they came for. if you rock the place you're da man. nobody cares about how you do it and you'll surely not get a few extra bucks from the owner because you're one of the glorious knights who defy the evils of modern technology :-D


i can't help it but to me it seems like all those fighting so hard for a sync-less world have to proove something. it's the same old song as in so many other cases ... drivers with parking assistants can't drive, chainsaw users (instead of an axe) are not real men ... and so on. i'm afraid that's the modern world and you gotta deal with it.
you don't like sync? fine, just don't use it. you don't respect those who use it? also fine, then don't but the choice is theirs and today it's a basic feature dj softwares just gotta have. especially those that are on the top as serato is without a doubt.

let's face it, it just comes down to using a software that has no sync and such makes one feel superior.

btw i don't like sync either. never use it and don't like the results. i do like and use auto tempo tho just as well as loops and cue points. and why shouldn't i? am i a worse dj then compared to 10 years ago when i had nothing but 2 technics? i don't think so. actually now thanks to those features i can give the audience a better show.
AKIEM 5:23 AM - 2 October, 2012
Quote:
reading through this thread makes me think beat matching would be the center of djing which is very far from reality. it's just one element in the process and one that's by far not that important as it sounds here. to be a good dj you need so much more than just getting the speed right. even for just a good transition you need to do much more than having the right tempo.


I disagree (depending on the type of DJing) but if you are expected to keep a dance floor going by beat by creating a seamless transition from song to song then it is probably the most important element. You might choose crap songs, or phrase wrong, or over use effects or whatever else - but there is not much else more distracting to people trying to dance then train wrecks all over the place.
AKIEM 6:04 AM - 2 October, 2012
Quote:
i'm spinning for almost 20 years now and of course i can get the speed right by hand within maybe 15 seconds so can i go to the next club now and count on them booking me because of that? not so likely :-P


Ok, if you CANT beat match (without sync) are you going to get the job?

Quote:
so what makes a dj good? the selection of songs? the order he plays them? the feel for what'd go well at a given time? something else?
simple answer: all of it.


Of course all those things matter, and plenty more, but none of it matters if all you do is train wreck all night. Beat matching is essential.

Quote:
sure the tempo should be right but that's only one piece of the whole system and not one of those that count big time.


I cant disagree more (depending on whats expected of course)

Quote:

most guests visit the disco because they wanna party and hear certain songs. most don't even know about beat matching let alone how it works and what different methods for doing it do exist. except a few die hard guys the audience couldn't care less as long as they get what they came for. if you rock the place you're da man. nobody cares about how you do it and you'll surely not get a few extra bucks from the owner because you're one of the glorious knights who defy the evils of modern technology :-D


Im not sure why that matters at all.

Sure some crowds could give a flying fuck about a transition - but thats not what we are talking about in the first place. If thats the type of crowd you are playing for you still dont need a sync button.

Different crowds a want different shit - some would be happy if you played shit off youtube all night - or stuck in someone else mixtape - or let them come up and plug in a their phones - BUT thats not what we are talking about.

Quote:

i can't help it but to me it seems like all those fighting so hard for a sync-less world have to proove something. it's the same old song as in so many other cases ... drivers with parking assistants can't drive, chainsaw users (instead of an axe) are not real men ... and so on. i'm afraid that's the modern world and you gotta deal with it.


I dont have anything to prove. I learned how to make 'pause mixes' when I was a kid, early '80s. I got my first tables in about '86 and was mixing in clubs by '89 or so. Its second nature to me, yes it takes seconds. I outshine younger DJs on a regular basis with ease or hardly trying... so I think you are missing the point of whats being said - and taking it personally (I guess because you choose to use it)

Quote:

you don't like sync? fine, just don't use it. you don't respect those who use it? also fine, then don't but the choice is theirs and today it's a basic feature dj softwares just gotta have. especially those that are on the top as serato is without a doubt.


I hardly see why its 'required' Scratch Live made it to the top without it - yet it predates SL by years. Serato could have added it from day one but chose not to. The pressure to add it must be coming from someplace else (new users / people wanting a different type of software)


Quote:

let's face it, it just comes down to using a software that has no sync and such makes one feel superior.


If you can beat match you are likely superior to the DJ who cant. That goes without saying and I dont see why its even an issue.

I think its more a matter of DJs needing sync feeling inferior because people regard it as an essential skill.
DjDamian529 2:34 AM - 22 December, 2012
I don't understand why so many so called "purists" keep complaining about new technology like beat sync!
I've had turntables since 1995 & I used to use them a lot for like 10 years, since then I rarely use them, mainly to sample an old record.
Well in those 1st ten years I was really good @ beat matching, it was proud that I had those skills, specially when DJ friends would ask me to teach them, well when I tried to teach them some of them had a really hard time and these r people who had a good knowledge of beats, 1 of them was even a drummer!
Beat Sync / tempo matching is a really tedious & technical physical act and it takes a lot of the time in between records that u can use to look for music, add some scratching, add efx, take some sips of your liquor drink, soke in the dance floor, etc, instead of racing to get those 2 records to match before 1 of them runs out!
I just got back into DJing in 2011 & after having used a friends Traktor program & my Ableton Program I don't want to do manual beat sync anymore!
Sure Beat sync is cheating but god damn is it fun to cheat & concentrate on other creative aspects like mixing, scratching, EFXs, digging for songs, etc!
Right now I'm using my friends serato SL! but when it comes time to buy my own if Serato hasn't added beat sync by then I'm getting Traktor instead!
Peace out.
DjDamian529 2:42 AM - 22 December, 2012
I forgot to mention 1 more thing...
I was never able to smoke weed when I DJed because I would loose some of my motor skills so I would go off beat when tempo matching & riding the pitch, that used to suck for me cause I would get creative musically when smoking & I would scratch really good but I couldn't beat match while high. :(
Well last year when I DJed using my friend's Traktor I was able to smoke weed with some peeps & still DJ really good thanks to "auto beat sync", something I wish I had all those times back in the day I had to turn down weed when I was DJing, lol, seriously though!
DjDamian529 2:59 AM - 22 December, 2012
Quote:
SSL already has auto-beatmatch. Here's how it works:

1. Put your tack on, and slide the pitch slider until the BPM matches the BPM of the tune you're playing

2. Cue it up and fine-tune it, either with your ears or the waveforms

It's hard to get any easier than that, especially considering that any sort of auto-match would need fine-tuning anyway.


That was lame and a waste of space in this thread which is about "AUTO BEAT SYNC"... what a dumbass!!!
AKIEM 1:23 PM - 22 December, 2012
Quote:
I forgot to mention 1 more thing...
I was never able to smoke weed when I DJed because I would loose some of my motor skills so I would go off beat when tempo matching & riding the pitch, that used to suck for me cause I would get creative musically when smoking & I would scratch really good but I couldn't beat match while high. :(
Well last year when I DJed using my friend's Traktor I was able to smoke weed with some peeps & still DJ really good thanks to "auto beat sync", something I wish I had all those times back in the day I had to turn down weed when I was DJing, lol, seriously though!


LOL
Firras 12:34 PM - 25 December, 2012
Quote:
Quote:
I forgot to mention 1 more thing...
I was never able to smoke weed when I DJed because I would loose some of my motor skills so I would go off beat when tempo matching & riding the pitch, that used to suck for me cause I would get creative musically when smoking & I would scratch really good but I couldn't beat match while high. :(
Well last year when I DJed using my friend's Traktor I was able to smoke weed with some peeps & still DJ really good thanks to "auto beat sync", something I wish I had all those times back in the day I had to turn down weed when I was DJing, lol, seriously though!


That's the point!!! LOL! Here we go.....Beat sync for all heheh!!!
ninjagaijin 9:43 AM - 26 December, 2012
Quote:
I forgot to mention 1 more thing...
I was never able to smoke weed when I DJed because I would loose some of my motor skills so I would go off beat when tempo matching & riding the pitch, that used to suck for me cause I would get creative musically when smoking & I would scratch really good but I couldn't beat match while high. :(
Well last year when I DJed using my friend's Traktor I was able to smoke weed with some peeps & still DJ really good thanks to "auto beat sync", something I wish I had all those times back in the day I had to turn down weed when I was DJing, lol, seriously though!


lol.

SWIM says they have problems on acid, but weed? not a chance.. it's so easy man.
hersh20 10:13 PM - 29 December, 2012
Quote:
try to auto beat match some good classic rock songs...let me know how the sneakers sound in the dryer...

PRIME hahaha so true, or some original breaks or classic R&B, oh wait....these new school dj's dont know anything about that shit anyway....LOL same ole saying goes... if ya dont know where ya from you aint never gonna get where your going....
WarpNote 12:44 PM - 31 December, 2012
Quote:
try to auto beat match some good classic rock songs...let me know how the sneakers sound in the dryer...

Sneakers in the dryer probably sound better than that autosync....

@Damian529, for real? are you trolling or what?
you want autosync so that you can get high and more "creative"?
LOL!!
DJMINGIA 11:26 PM - 1 January, 2013
I say this. I don't care how well Auto sync works, if the "DJ" using it doesn't pick the right song to play next, the right parts to mix in and out of both songs, and doesn't blend and adjust eq's and faders at the right points of the mix, it doesn't matter. OK, the songs are matched in beat, now what? If you're a novice, it still doesn't solve the issue of reading the crowd, picking the right songs, knowing about downbeats and 32 counts, waiting for the appropriate time to mix on both songs, blending the volumes and EQ, so on and so forth.

The only true "advantage" I see with auto beat is for the 4/4 old disco with the extended simple breaks that floats because of the live drummer, other than that, give an inexperienced DJ auto sync, and I guarantee he still sucks. Beat matching is only a small part of the overall equation.

So all you weekend warriors, just because you have a computer, auto beat software, and a hardrive off ebay, don't think for one second you are a "DJ". Just as if you go to Home Depot and buy a hammer, screw gun, and some sheet rock, doesn't make you a carpenter. Oh, you do friends parties and clubs for only $500 because you know the promoter? Great, still doesn't make you a DJ that knows what you are doing.
AKIEM 12:54 PM - 2 January, 2013
^^^ don't forget - those are also feature suggestions or found in other softwares.
Auto-Mix
Auto-Select
Auto-Etc.
browny 5:10 PM - 2 January, 2013
I personally find syncing rather boring. I only see the need for it if you are spinning 4 decks and doing more of a live production performance. For people with sl1's why would you need sync for 2 decks??
Sporadik Styles 1:13 AM - 3 January, 2013
Quote:
I personally find syncing rather boring. I only see the need for it if you are spinning 4 decks and doing more of a live production performance. For people with sl1's why would you need sync for 2 decks??



LOL because looking at the BPM and sliding the pitch to match them up is too much work for some people. They'd rather stand there and not have to do anything which seems to be the new trend
Daniel Hills 6:06 AM - 3 January, 2013
i dont want to own a software that has that option. It puts the serato DJ in the same class as virtual DJ users. It's the last software that doesn't have the option

What's the point using vinyls and Cdjs if all we are doing is pressing play?? It's nonsense.
Sporadik Styles 1:10 AM - 4 January, 2013
Quote:
i dont want to own a software that has that option. It puts the serato DJ in the same class as virtual DJ users. It's the last software that doesn't have the option



What's the point using vinyls and Cdjs if all we are doing is pressing play?? It's nonsense.


Exactly, I've sadly noticed a trend with all this controller nonsense and auto-sync stuff.
browny 12:50 PM - 4 January, 2013
I agree all the young Djs now just expect the software to do this for them. It's fine if your running multiple decks but what's the point in serato? Traktor can do that for people wanting to layer tracks. Virtual Dj can do that for kids. Can't serato just stay as it is please?
djmazz 6:54 PM - 18 February, 2013
after reading through the initial parts of this thread i was starting to think that serato was going to force the auto-sync! there's no problem if the option is there, but i remember at my friends wedding after all the regular wedding songs were played a few of us got up on the decks (cdj's) myself included, and all these people were telling me how good it sounded, and I couldn't help but say "this is way too easy" and not fun at all, but it seemed to be the norm for a lot of the other dj's who were there and use it in their own paid sets at gigs. not my cup of tea but who am I to judge..

I couldn't really care less how other people liked the sounds or flow i was making, just standing there . tap the sync button, have cue points pre-programmed, bop around to the music to make it look like I've got mad skills. I'm no career DJ for sure (bedroom and private parties for me) but have done a couple birthdays (21st birthdays etc) even then I would manually beat match trance to metal/rock or whatever, didn't always sound good but meh, it was just fun trying to make it work. but after copping a lot of abuse for playing what I thought was appropriate for the function, it would have been better off to just have a play list and auto-cue the whole damn thing. I've been asked plenty of times to bring my DJ gear over and mix it up but in the end all anyone really wanted was music to keep playing, so an auto playlist made a whole lot more sense.

I guess it really depends on what you want to accomplish at any given moment... I just love to mix and dj for my own enjoyment and when i do go to clubs I'm not one of the people on the dance floor caring only about how nice it sounds, as crazy as it might sound I enjoy standing near the DJ booth to see how they do it, watch their skills (or lack of)

i use SL1 with my 2 technics, I'd love to expand to 3 or 4 turntables but don't have the room. I've used midi contollers and friends more advanced cdj's with alpha track or whatever its called (probably too high tech for me)but it just doesnt feel right if there's nothing spinning under my finger tips! but I have seen some people who can work those extra things really well and its like an artform in itself... if done properly.
gomerezer 9:31 AM - 16 January, 2015
You guys do seem to be afraid of autosync because novice dj's getting attention without even being able to manual beatmatch. If you think that "beutmuching by eur maeks u bettr dj", then why the f are you afraid of those djs who are far more inferior than you? Is it because you spend your life mastering it that its the only thing you can do properly? it actually does matter but it does only matter if you can do it or not, if yes how fine? Being able to beatmatch manually greatly improves your perception of beats and tempo, which are the very esentials of djing, but it does not affect the sound coming out of speakers! You don't have to use it live, especially on a party when you are drunk, high, etc. and having fun together with people.

I'm not saying serato should have autosync, because it's a vinyl emulationsystem, but i'm talking to those who go all "GLBAHSKFLBHFHALBJBJSLSJFK and f you" on autosync.

Accept it, there are things that only people can do and machines can also do. Most famous guitarists use an auto tuner live at stage, because it's practical, but theyre also are able to perfectly tune their guitar by ear because they are f'ing musicians. I think it's like "yeaah, look at me, how cool i do dis tuning, yeah, lick me" a guitarist trying to manually tune his/?her guitar on stage. I think it's not much of a talent being able to do something that machines can do, workers also do it.

You want to keep this that way because doing manual beat matching live is somewhat measurable indicator of talent(falsely percepted) and you are afraid of losing that property. A few people may not be able to agree on a persons talent but they can agree if someone is able to beatmatch or not.

Please keep your mind busy with song selection, phrasing, eqing for a perfect output. And learn some proper scratch ffs. Machines cant do these.
ninjagaijin 12:56 PM - 16 January, 2015
Auto tuner for guitars is not the same as auto match beat match. Tuning is get the right note, just like you must do when you produce music. Nothing 'cheating' about tuning accurately, good luck if you can tune an F# and Gb easily.. and NO they are not the same... almost no one can tune perfectly by ear.

Your point is pretty mute man. Most 'famous guitarists' have guitar techs tune their guitars beforehand for them. You would only hear about 1/4 of the songs in a Sonic Youth set for instance, if they had to retune the same guitar/bass after EVERY tune...

Auto beatmatch is just for noobs, I don't aggro about it.. I started a little that way on Traktor Pro v2 internal early 00s, for digital systems, after vinyl and CD/vinyl mixing..

It's ok to have it there for the controller noobs but it's all just how old school you want to be/how not lazy. For instance, one of the first djs who STILL mixes on beltdrives, thinks that pitch adjustment slider on a turntable is for 'noobs' and 'real old school djs' mix with belt drives with constant manual platter adjustment to speed up or slow down. I personally learnt this way in mid 90s, mixing a technics belt drive with no pitch, alongside a 1200 mk2 and a CD walkman (for which I would stretch tracks before hand in Wavelab or similar software to correct beat). But good luck scratching and changing pitches and stuff with 'auto beat'.

I don't know the point you are making, we probably agree haha.
2greendollars 1:06 PM - 13 March, 2015
this topic has gone on for sometime, before we were gifted with the "SYNC" button!!

this gift was given to us - not to be lazy, but allow more complex mixing, remixing and the like, with more than 2 sources. so if I was playing around with a drum and lyrics, I could then "sync" some guitar riff and percussion. so im basically using 4 decks to do that. now with only 2 decks in front on me on a controller, a bit difficult to switch back and forth between to sync a few milliseconds, so in this case, the "SYNC" button is practical.

If you're using it to mix 2 sources together, you shouldn't have a job as a professional DJ. That's the core skillset you learn - mixing 2 sources together. It isn't hard. Most can do it with their eyes shut, and even, with your ears blocked and eyes on the program!!! no excuse to be using a button to automate the process!!

theres no prize for vinyl or beltdrives anymore. controllers are here to suit your requirements and come in all flavours to suit your mixing style. theres no "better" or "worse"...if it suits your level of talent then its a great controller for you!

I think this thread is done. feature is the "sync" button and if used in the right way, is a good tool in multi (more than 2) source mixing.
ninjagaijin 8:01 PM - 14 March, 2015
Quote:
this topic has gone on for sometime, before we were gifted with the "SYNC" button!!

this gift was given to us - not to be lazy, but allow more complex mixing, remixing and the like, with more than 2 sources. so if I was playing around with a drum and lyrics, I could then "sync" some guitar riff and percussion. so im basically using 4 decks to do that. now with only 2 decks in front on me on a controller, a bit difficult to switch back and forth between to sync a few milliseconds, so in this case, the "SYNC" button is practical.

If you're using it to mix 2 sources together, you shouldn't have a job as a professional DJ. That's the core skillset you learn - mixing 2 sources together. It isn't hard. Most can do it with their eyes shut, and even, with your ears blocked and eyes on the program!!! no excuse to be using a button to automate the process!!

theres no prize for vinyl or beltdrives anymore. controllers are here to suit your requirements and come in all flavours to suit your mixing style. theres no "better" or "worse"...if it suits your level of talent then its a great controller for you!

I think this thread is done. feature is the "sync" button and if used in the right way, is a good tool in multi (more than 2) source mixing.


I am still working at 3 & 4 deck mixing with TURNTABLE CONTROLLERS for DVS and with actual records.. I think this is a definite skill to have to mix, particularly real vinyl/no DVS. But I agree, sync is useful for 3+4 deck mixes. It is a real struggle to EQ and fader while keeping 3 or 4 tracks/instrumentals/accapellas in sync manually. But I want to do it manually :) I did start out on Traktor internal doing 3+4 deck mixes myself though also.

I agree also sync with 2 tracks is pitiful hehe.

There are prizes for vinyl in my area .. in that you freakin get shows haha. Without playing actual vinyl, here people look down upon pretty much everything else. In the jungle & drum n bass scene in my specific town anyway. I think it's kind of dumb personally, that I don't get many shows because people know me for playing Serato and new tracks (still in a 93-96 jungle old school style, but if it's not on vinyl, people care a lot less *sigh*).

Glad we can agree that 2 deck mixing doesn't/shouldn't need a sync button. I saw a guy use a controller and sync last week at a gig, he probably played worse than everyone else (CDJs, vinyl and DVS acts) - beat flip and bar flip syncs, off beat syncs, wrong beatmatching/off tempos.. I was horrified. If you are going to use a tool like Controller and sync.. it should sound damn near perfect haha.
2greendollars 5:29 AM - 15 March, 2015
GREAT job ninjagaijin!!! much respect! I LOVE to hear creativity in the use of serato - esp. using a blend of old school and new tech. That's pretty cool, and I bet you do get the work!

Keep on doing what you love buddy. I guess my comment was pretty general but you provide the exceptions that justify why using old tech in collaboration with new tech, can work a treat!

cheers
ant. 2G$
www.2greendollars.com
KNSA 6:28 PM - 7 August, 2015
Real djs make people dance ;-)
2greendollars 6:43 AM - 1 September, 2015
real dj's also have a profile on serato, including a pic, KNSA :)
KNSA 9:46 AM - 1 September, 2015
It's my opinion, no matter technic and materials. (although i love technic. Scratching and beat juggling for 15 years)
:-)
2greendollars 11:58 AM - 1 September, 2015
KNSA, this isnt an opinion forum or an ego forum, but a suggestion thread. Nice pizza. yum. :)
KNSA 1:10 PM - 1 September, 2015
Just want to say that autosync or not doesn't change anything. This summer i wen't to a party and the DJ never beat match any song but the crowd was satisfied and had a lot of fun.

When you said: "I LOVE to hear creativity in the use of serato", it's your opinion or a suggestion? :-)

Yes the pizza was nice, thanks. ;-)
2greendollars 9:35 AM - 25 October, 2015
Quote:
Just want to say that autosync or not doesn't change anything. This summer i wen't to a party and the DJ never beat match any song but the crowd was satisfied and had a lot of fun.

song selection is just as - probably even more - important than beat mixing/matching etc. however, thats also a talent in itself.



When you said: "I LOVE to hear creativity in the use of serato", it's your opinion or a suggestion? :-)


that comment was meant to read as it was typed. i dont write with ulterior motives.


Yes the pizza was nice, thanks. ;-)



:)
ninjagaijin 9:06 PM - 6 October, 2016
Quote:
GREAT job ninjagaijin!!! much respect! I LOVE to hear creativity in the use of serato - esp. using a blend of old school and new tech. That's pretty cool, and I bet you do get the work!

Keep on doing what you love buddy. I guess my comment was pretty general but you provide the exceptions that justify why using old tech in collaboration with new tech, can work a treat!

cheers
ant. 2G$
www.2greendollars.com


Thanks for the kind words man - I hear that sync with DVS doesn't really work very well (unless push it all the time) so I'm kind of happy about that hehe. I mean, it defeats the purpose of using a turntable for controller, somewhat..

Just had a look at how the sync works now in SDJ and it's not bad - simple sync especially as it just speeds up getting to the right decimal place in a beatmatching, especially on CDJ or controller with (most likely) pitch faders that are smaller than a 1200. Especially on +16 or higher, it can be really difficult to lock in two very different bpm tracks, one at say -15% and another at +12%. Even more so if you are talking on Vestax turntables, where the further away from 0% you get on the fader, the bigger the increments/notches of adjustment.. basically a hyperbola either side of 0%, making the ultra pitch +50% mixing on a vestax turnie super hard if you are not just using it as an effect and legitimately trying to beatmatch that way.