DJing Discussion

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The turntable....anachronous or here to stay?

capo di exmixah 12:28 AM - 25 September, 2005
Used my 1200's extensively for the first time in possibly 4 years for my 4 hour radio set (Yes i am ashamed of myself and vow to seek forgiveness via sack cloth and ashes). It was also my first real test of SSL. It passed with flying colours.

A few of my colleagues were commenting on how strange it was to see the TTS in action. It then occured to me that that i had not seen a Jamaican dj (selector),using turntables in a minute.

Granted I am perhaps the only person in the Island using SSL but I know cats who have that lame ass Final Scratch but use it with cd players only. (I'm crusading like an evangelist to have a few kneel at the altar of SSL)

It got me to wondering. "Is the Turntable dead...dying, or is this endemic of only lazy ass Jamaican djs?"

"How much longer will the tool on which the dj art was built, be relevant?"

"Do we need to start a save the turntable campaign, or am i needlessly panicking?"

"Will cd players become the weapon of choice for djs around the world?"
sixxx 1:28 AM - 25 September, 2005
SSL has given the turntable a fighting chance. :) lol - But on the real, for some of us the turntable WILL NEVER GO OUT OF STYLE.
Cashless 7:07 PM - 27 September, 2005
In Jamaica, the fast paced culture of dancehall makes CDJ's a necessity. I don't think many sounds/dj's are keen on Serato yet, BUT I think with time there will be many Serato fans on the island.

Like I said, I'm coming out there in late 2005 or early 2006, so there will be more than one Serato dj on the island. I don't I'll be hitting Kingston though.
skinnyguy 9:49 PM - 27 September, 2005
i think analog tt's are now on life support...sorry to say...
Peeti-V 10:34 PM - 27 September, 2005
if it wasn't for all the damn maintenance issues...cables, tonearms, wiring, etc.......i think they would still be used just as much as they were years ago
sixxx 1:16 AM - 28 September, 2005
Quote:
if it wasn't for all the damn maintenance issues...cables, tonearms, wiring, etc.......i think they would still be used just as much as they were years ago


They really don't need that much maintenance. Just make sure you have a nice tt case...

:)

My 1992 1200's are still in top shape!
hologram 1:33 AM - 28 September, 2005
Not worried about the demise of Turntables.

My neice has decided to become a DJ. Her father is an Old School DJ from LBC. He now uses CDs most of the time.
What makes me not worry is what she said.

"Dad, I want to rock vinyl!"( or something like that)

With that she earned herself my first set of 12s from the late 80s. She can't sell them but as long as she needs them she can use them.

Maybe CD players will become dominate (if they aren't already) but I think there will always be some Analog Turntablists out there. Even if no more vinyl is pressed with SSL we will still be able to rock Analog Turntables.
DJ Rumor 2:00 AM - 28 September, 2005
Turntables are still the foundation of DJ'ing and will stay that way. You can always rely on a 1200, but can you say the same for a CDJ? Turnatbles have proven to be the real deal due to its simplicity. Digital turntables have so much in them that if one thing goes wrong, there goes your night. The mere presence of a turntable brings to mind "DJ'ing" even to your everyday, non-informed individual. Whereas CD decks, for the near future at least, will never have that effect. Also, the best DJ's (in my estimation) use turntables (Jazzy Jeff, Q-Bert, AM, MMM, the list goes on and on). Turntables ain't going anywhere babY!!
mixologist45 1:17 PM - 28 September, 2005
staying hard. i use cd's for frisbees at the park with fido
s42000 6:02 PM - 28 September, 2005
I use CD's as coasters ...
Melissa 7:36 PM - 29 September, 2005
CD players make good laptop stands.
hologram 10:04 PM - 30 September, 2005
Quote:
CD players make good laptop stands.


lol tru dat!
Teknikscian 10:10 PM - 30 September, 2005
Turntables wont ever go away. there is a certain respect that is given to anyone that can handle them with finesse and skill. so i dont think they will ever go out of style. i just think that since there are a lot of other options now, that more people are getting into Djing so it may seem that turntables are going out of style but they really arent.
Peeti-V 1:28 AM - 1 October, 2005
i love turntables.......but they are a bitch......I have had mine for probably almost 10 years and I have had to replace the tonearms and rca cables so many damn times.....and now there is something wrong with the pitch affecting the volume or something (explained in another post.......they haven't even left my room in 2 years....
sixxx 5:12 PM - 1 October, 2005
Quote:
i love turntables.......but they are a bitch......I have had mine for probably almost 10 years and I have had to replace the tonearms and rca cables so many damn times.....and now there is something wrong with the pitch affecting the volume or something (explained in another post.......they haven't even left my room in 2 years....


Ever heard of TURNTABLE CASES? JK

I've had one of my sets since 1992 (the other one is only 3 years old) and nothing has been replaced except RCA's.....

Also, it's a turntable... NOT A BASKETBALL.

:)

But, seriously... what brand are they?
Peeti-V 6:46 PM - 1 October, 2005
what else....Technics sl-1200Mk2s......I do have cases....I am not rough with them or anything......I guess I just have bad luck or something
Flipsta 9:12 PM - 1 October, 2005
The turntable is definetly on its way out, at least in the touring dj scene. Clubs that have a permanent set installed may keep them around but most of the national/international acts I have talked to in the last year are playing on either Pioneer CD-DJ's or Scratch Live. For example, I played a show on Wednesday and I was the only dj that night that used turntables (and I was using them for Scratch Live, hehe). Both Carl Cox and Evil Nine were playing exclusively CD's and laptops, they moved the Technics off stage when I was done.

THe rational is simple....records are a bitch to transport, especially when flying around the world. The annoyance of carrying hundreds of records and the varying sound quality of vinyl is what led me to Serato, but there seems an endless list of reasons to ditch vinyl. I love my Technic's, but if there is a more effecient way to do things I'm all for it.
sixxx 4:50 AM - 2 October, 2005
No way Flipsta. The turntables are not on their way out and SSL actually has brought them back to use for many dj's who had switched over to CD's.
DJ_X_Trodinaire 5:30 AM - 2 October, 2005
^^ agree
Flipsta 1:37 AM - 3 October, 2005
Quote:
No way Flipsta. The turntables are not on their way out and SSL actually has brought them back to use for many dj's who had switched over to CD's.


Lots of people hate on SSL and FS right now for a variety of reasons. Those same people will be using it in five years. Vinyl purists are a certain breed and I dont consider myself one. You may use your turntables stubbornly until you die but I will gladly move on to a new and better way when it comes.
Peeti-V 1:52 AM - 3 October, 2005
this is the way i see it.....both have their advantages and disadvantages

-Turntable
pro-nothing comes close to a turntable....it feels so natural and is way better for scratching

con-maintenance....having correct adjustments such as weight...wear and tear on vinyl and needle....things prone for repair such as tonearm and rca cables

-CD Players
pro-size, less adjustments (calibrating) to be made, lighter in weight, less wear and tear on media, no needle, no skipping, has additional features like looping, not affected as much as turntables to vibration and all that stuff we hate

con-scratching does not feel as natural......some tricks cannot be done that can be done with a turntable

The choice is up to the individual.....
hologram 2:43 AM - 3 October, 2005
man seems people are hating on the turntables too.
capo di exmixah 4:21 AM - 3 October, 2005
You may use your turntables stubbornly until you die but I will gladly move on to a new and better way when it comes.

Huh!!!Flipsta, have you ever used a turntable??? (a 1200 that is)
Melissa 3:10 PM - 3 October, 2005
I've experienced some vinyl purists turn up their noses at SSL- like I've sold out by using it. But I think we all know they'll come around...

I always thought final scratch was weak because I was never impressed with the djs I saw running it... When I started to see kick ass djs running Serato- that changed my mind...

I notice that sometimes people look in the dj booth and nod with approval because they see I'm playing vinyl. I'm not hating on cd djs, but it just doesn't impress me like watching a hip hop dj juggle vinyl... There is just something about a TECHNIC 1200 turntable- its not going to die, just gave it a breath of new life...
Flipsta 11:57 PM - 3 October, 2005
Quote:

Huh!!!Flipsta, have you ever used a turntable??? (a 1200 that is)


Capo, did you even read my post? \ I've owned various 1200 models for 10 years, but what are we doing with SSL? We are playing digital files off of laptops, using the turntable merely as the controller. In other words, the turntable has become disposable. When a better controller comes along that is competitive with turntables in terms of pricing and control there will be no need for them if all our music is in digital form.
hologram 12:20 AM - 4 October, 2005
The key point is "When" that day has not arrived though I would say it is close.

Turntables are like a Wood knife. There are a lot of power tools out there today but no one has replaced the Wood Knife yet.
There are just some tings you can only do with a Wood knife and every Carpenter out there Respects anyone who has Mastered a Wood Knife.
sixxx 2:25 AM - 4 October, 2005
wood knife. lol

hahahaha. That's so true.


-----

I play on a wooden turntable. It sounds better. lol
KMXE 2:44 AM - 4 October, 2005
if anything, the only thing that may fade away into oblivion are new records being pressed. This, IMO, is only a remote chance. but with the advent of digital turntable solutions (e.g SSL & FS etc) turntables will still be in demand. But maybe, just maybe, records may be on the demise. but i doubt this very much
skinnyguy 10:16 AM - 4 October, 2005
oh, the irony of it all....ssl was developed to preserve vinyl/analog styles of dj-ing, yet at the same time, it also pushes forward the digital growth of dj-ing and a decline in actual vinyl usage.
tsalyards 4:31 PM - 4 October, 2005
I love my TTs but have to admit that they will soon be a thing of the past. In fact, I think that controllers for playing music will become a thing of the past in general. Unless you are scratching, why do you need a deck or TT at all?

The future of mixing is auto-bpm, auto-sync to queu points, mix.

We may pride ourselves on beatmatching skills, but this is monkey work that can be replaced by a simple algorythm. Laptop and a mixer. That's the future IMHO, whether I like it or not.
Melissa 4:56 PM - 4 October, 2005
Turntablists and vinyl junkies are a special breed. We ain't going nowhere.

I go digging in used music shops alongside grey-haired granddads, japanese tourists and business men in suits... Vinyl junkies are here to stay. Unfortunatly too many shops are closing left and right to make way for the monsters- HMV, Virgin, etc.

Maybe it is just nostalgia, but I won't ever stop buying vinyl and I think there are a lot of us out there who feel the same way (can I get an amen?) Of course its easier and lighter to play cds but where is the love?
DJUnknown 6:02 PM - 4 October, 2005
Monkey work, huh...okay...automatic cue points...huh..maybe this simple algorithm can also read the crowd by indvidually scanning each person's body temp and movements and heart rate to determine when their mood to let the DJ know when to change the music and/or what to select...point being no respected DJ will use an algorithm to mix, they might at best use cue points, but any DJ with skills won't do it, and as for the people without skills they probably won't know how to read the crowd anyway...so they will just be lame DJ's anyway.
tsalyards 6:16 PM - 4 October, 2005
DJUnknown,

Picking the tracks and when to bring the mix in will still remain the job of the dj, no doubt.

Beatmatching is quickly becoming an automated function. Again, I'm not predicting this because I find it desirable; It's just the writing on the wall.
DJUnknown 8:49 PM - 4 October, 2005
Question...would you honestly would push a button (if you could) marked "automatic mix" and have your music blended/mixed by the computer? I'm not talking when you go on breaks or when you just can't seem to mix in a track properly for some strange reason; I'm talking about throughout the entire night you select the songs and push the mix button.
Peeti-V 8:55 PM - 4 October, 2005
some people might.....i would get hella bored though
tsalyards 9:39 PM - 4 October, 2005
Quote:
Question...would you honestly would push a button (if you could) marked "automatic mix" and have your music blended/mixed by the computer?


If the feature was reliable, I would absolutely use it. And yes, this is coming from an experienced dj who knows how to beatmatch reliably. The way I look at it, technological inovations make once necessary skill outdated. Beatmatching will eventually be one of those skills. Any tool that allows me to spend more time on the mix itself and focusing on song selection is a plus. In most cases the crowd would really give a f*ck whether or not I am matching the beats automatically or manually.

Would I still match records the old way from time-to-time? Of course ;)
sixxx 10:02 PM - 4 October, 2005
Quote:
Quote:
Question...would you honestly would push a button (if you could) marked "automatic mix" and have your music blended/mixed by the computer?


If the feature was reliable, I would absolutely use it. And yes, this is coming from an experienced dj



Please don't call yourself a DJ ... or EXPERIENCED at that. :)
sixxx 10:08 PM - 4 October, 2005
Quote:
maybe this simple algorithm can also read the crowd by indvidually scanning each person's body temp and movements and heart rate to determine when their mood to let the DJ know when to change the music and/or what to select


Well said. :)
Rebelguy 10:12 PM - 4 October, 2005
"In most cases the crowd would really give a f*ck whether or not I am matching the beats automatically or manually."

The thing that is most interesting is that a lot of the time the crowd really doesn't care if you can mix or not. What it really comes down to is song selection. There are a lot of DJs that are very technical and precise while there are others that simply scratch and cut songs in. Both can do a incredible job of rocking a party with song selection but mixing is not always a necessity.
sixxx 10:16 PM - 4 October, 2005
Quote:
"In most cases the crowd would really give a f*ck whether or not I am matching the beats automatically or manually."

The thing that is most interesting is that a lot of the time the crowd really doesn't care if you can mix or not. What it really comes down to is song selection. There are a lot of DJs that are very technical and precise while there are others that simply scratch and cut songs in. Both can do a incredible job of rocking a party with song selection but mixing is not always a necessity.


In your state, country maybe. But, you'll get a beer bottle thrown at over in my area if you think you could get away with this. :)
KMXE 11:02 PM - 4 October, 2005
im sorry, but i cant imagine DJing and beat matching with a push of the button. i fell in love with the art of mixing music (with your hands and intuition). pushing a button to beat match is like saying a blow-up doll will do. its also like Vestax doing that bullsh*t feature where it adds scratch 'clicks' when u open & close the fader. its just not the same. mixing music with your hands adds the 'human' touch to a set.
Rebelguy 11:52 PM - 4 October, 2005
"In your state, country maybe. But, you'll get a beer bottle thrown at over in my area if you think you could get away with this. :)"

I used to think this myself but I have had a lot of Big name DJs (Kid Capri, Jazzy Jeff, etc.) and lesser known DJs whose style is more scratch oriented come through my area and rock a party with minimal mixing. It all came down to song selection and mic skills. I am not saying that mixing is not important, just that it is not necessary at all times if you know how to program music.

By the way my state is CA and I think we know a little bit about DJing out here. =)
capo di exmixah 12:28 AM - 5 October, 2005
Maybe it is just nostalgia, but I won't ever stop buying vinyl and I think there are a lot of us out there who feel the same way (can I get an amen?) Of course its easier and lighter to play cds but where is the love?

AMEN SISTA!!! IN FACT A...FUCKIN' A...AMEN!!!
Peeti-V 12:30 AM - 5 October, 2005
it really just depends on the crowd.....both arguments are right in my book
Peeti-V 12:34 AM - 5 October, 2005
you guys are crazy......i have bought 1 record in the past 2 years....but it didn't seem like anybody noticed or care for that matter......too much damn money if you ask me
Peeti-V 12:39 AM - 5 October, 2005
oh yeah....this one dj said to me that i wasn't a real dj cause i was using cdjs at the club...(i use both cdjs and technics-just depends on setup).....so the next time i hooked up the tts to serato and taught him to stfu....he never said anything else after that:)
hologram 2:13 AM - 5 October, 2005
First off Amen Sista.

Second.
Quote:
it really just depends on the crowd.....both arguments are right in my book


I agree but why does each side have to rag on the other. To each his own and make it the best you can.

Third..
Quote:
In my experience, DJ's who rag on other DJ's for using tools/methods different than their own have either (a) too much time on their hands and feel the need to chastise others for using what's available to them just because it's different, or (b) insecurity/concern about their own mixing abilities eventually being rendered obsolete by said tools/methods. Both are ridiculous reasons to care.

A turntable is an instrument, much like a guitar, keyboard, saxophone, etc. Just as there are MIDI controllers designed after each of the above so people can choose which "interface" they prefer to make music with, the turntable will always be an option for those who prefer its control scheme over the alternatives. The fact that there are millions of used records out there (many which may never see re-release in any other format) also guarantees the turntable's survival for a good while, if only for use as a tool to transfer the records to Serato ;).


Well Said.
hologram 2:15 AM - 5 October, 2005
And further more...
Why does everyone who has a new way of doing things always have to predict doom and gloom or the downfall of the former way of doing things?
Melissa 2:19 AM - 5 October, 2005
good point d:raf...
but... I see it like this- it's like surfing is to boogie boarding, like skateboarding is to rollerblades, like a friggin harley davidson is to a vespa, turntables just kick ass and they always will, most club-goers don't care as long as the music doesn't stop, but some of us do and do it for the delicious feeling of mixing vinyl under our fingers... Sure, you could ride a scooter/spin cds and get the job done but wouldn't you rather ride a harley/technic 1200?

Peeti-V- You haven't bought a record in 2 years? Are you buying cds? buying mp3s? WTF? Yes, music is expensive but it should be! Studios, production, etc cost MONEY- everyone has got to eat...
Peeti-V 2:30 AM - 5 October, 2005
i didn't say i haven't bought a record in 2 years....dang melissa....get it right......i have bought 1 single record in the past 2 years.........i get a lot of promos via servers and what not made for production companies, radio stations, and just producers and djs. i do purchase some music but mainly in the mp3 format.there are ways of getting around buying music that are legal....however, if i was spinning house as much as i used to do....i imagine i would spend a lot more money on music.....but then again there is always beatport.com
sixxx 2:34 AM - 5 October, 2005
Quote:


By the way my state is CA and I think we know a little bit about DJing out here. =)


Get out of your Rancho already then... cause I'm in Cali and we respect the art of mixing more than you do.
Rebelguy 3:47 AM - 5 October, 2005
Sixxx...

Why does this have to get into a discussion on the respect of mixing. I was merely stating that the most important thing is music programing. You can be the best mixer in the world but if your progamming sucks your party will suck.

By the way I am not in the boonies. I mix in San Francisco on the Number 1 radio station in the Bay Area and have been djing since 1987. Thanks for making this yet another forum where people can't have an opinion that doesn't coincide with your own.
diego vega 4:09 AM - 5 October, 2005
mmmm about the auto beatmatch thing, Ableton is already used by tons of DJs, just take Sasha for example, even if he can beatmatch obviously nowadays he doesn't, the program does it for him. Is he not mixing anymore? is he not a real DJ anymore? beatmatching is only one part of being a dj, it's not all there is to it.
Peeti-V 4:39 AM - 5 October, 2005
Rebel guy.......are you who i think you are......you from KMEL......if it is you.....thanks for those rubberbands back when we were doing the mods
sixxx 5:14 AM - 5 October, 2005
Quote:
I mix in San Francisco on the Number 1 radio station in the Bay Area and have been djing since 1987.


Talk about programming. I'm sure your PD tells you what to mix anyway. :)
sixxx 5:17 AM - 5 October, 2005
Oh yeah, Rebelguy... don't make me pullout my radio credentials. You think you're the only one around here that mixes or has mixed for a radio station? Try 7. :) All top rated radio stations.
Peeti-V 6:35 AM - 5 October, 2005
i am sure you guys are both hella good djs.......i am not sure where you are from in CA sixxx but if Rebelguy is who i think he is.....he is a very well known dj and he is very talented..... can't we just leave this to rest.... we can see the change that is happening and the resistance as well.......we will just see what will happen.......as i stated in a previous post......there are pros and cons to tunrtables and pros and cons to other types of controllers
sixxx 6:48 AM - 5 October, 2005
Quote:
SSL has given the turntable a fighting chance. :) lol - But on the real, for some of us the turntable WILL NEVER GO OUT OF STYLE.


I said it once and I quoted it again.
Rebelguy 2:02 PM - 5 October, 2005
You win Sixxx...you are the best mixer and are ultimately the final word on what it takes to be a top DJ. I really must not know what I am talking about. I guess I will creep back under my rock and continue mixing in my bedroom.

On another note, hey Peeti. Didn't your rubber bands get returned to me? I know I got someone's back around that time. How has everything been with you?
sixxx 2:38 PM - 5 October, 2005
Rebelguy, don't patronize me. :)
skinnyguy 9:28 PM - 5 October, 2005
hey...i think i know rebelguy too...sorta..cool..

but anyways, there's already dj software out there that already beatmix for you...and yes, there are people out there using them at gigs...
djjstylz 4:13 AM - 6 October, 2005
This is too funny, one of the most well known artists in SF Chris "The Rebel" is being questioned about programming. He has been around for a long time and has played everywhere so I would say he knows what he is talking about. He is totally right, everyone has heard a "train wreck" still rocking a packed party because of music selection. It happens.
DJLorrence 1:07 PM - 6 October, 2005
DUDE! If you are Chris The Rebel, You inspired me to start DJing, Im down in LA now, U still doing live radio sets?
Rebelguy 2:58 PM - 6 October, 2005
Jstylz. Not sure about how well known I am but I have been doing it a long time. I still get backaches from carrying my crates all those years. Why couln't they have come out with Serato 15 years ago...haha.

Hey Lorrence. I am still doing live sets three out of the five weekdays I am on the radio. The other two are prerecorded because of work. How has the LA area been? I haven't been down there in forever.
s42000 3:53 PM - 6 October, 2005
So we all agree the turntable aint going nowhere !!

I'd Imagine if the TT was doomed, Technics,Vestax,*Numark, *Stanton and all the rest would stop making new turntables. They must know something we don't.

*=(hate thir crap)
tsalyards 4:00 PM - 6 October, 2005
So it sounds like the pissing match is over with?

I find it funny that while I use turntables, apparently even if I entertain the thought that they won't be along forever, or if I consider using a different technology at some point, I am not a real dj.

This is the type of posturing that turns a lot of people off to this art. So many fragile egos.

Can't we all just get along?
capo di exmixah 5:00 PM - 6 October, 2005
Quote:
So it sounds like the pissing match is over with?

I find it funny that while I use turntables, apparently even if I entertain the thought that they won't be along forever, or if I consider using a different technology at some point, I am not a real dj.

This is the type of posturing that turns a lot of people off to this art. So many fragile egos.

Can't we all just get along?


Well like it or not (and i mean this in a good way) the turntable will, for a while,remain the standard by which a "real dj"is judged. After all it is the tool upon which the artform was esentially created. It will take a good minute before we move from this state of perception.

As long as kids are seeing djs behind rap acts, on music television etc, manning a pair of 1200's...a visual appeal that has not yet been matched by using those inanimate looking (almost toy like) Pioneer CDJ1000's... those who inherit this craft might be encouraged (thank God), to keep using turntables.

I will admit to this... the most constant thing in life is change, thus ,if a cd player is created that truly looks feels and behaves like a TT in every sense...vinyl, might then fade away. (Technics tried but failed with the sldz 1200.) Till then long live the turntable...long live the 12" Single

BTW. Ain't ego a bitch? It is that element that drives DJS towards the persuance of excellence in this craft...but also that which makes us difficult goons to deal with.

Its a beautiful thing.
sixxx 5:44 PM - 6 October, 2005
I don't think the CD player will ever replace the turntable in a sense that it will "feel" like it. I think it's the whole tonearm and being able to see the groove for needle placement. You can't see that on the CD player and that's why the Numark's CDX, even though they feel very nice, still don't pair up to the turntable.

:)

As far as djjstylz, you can clean your brown nose now. I believe we're all adults in here and can defend ourselves. :)

People, don't need to get e-motional or take things personal on boards. I find lots of things amusing and well, this is one of them. So have fun and keep on posting.

One more thing, if the 1200 isn't one of the best, why is it still mentioned on songs, shown on commercials and so forth? I don't see any other turntables being featured like the 1200 anywhere. Also, why did most turntables emulate the design of the 1200?
Peeti-V 5:45 PM - 6 October, 2005
"BTW. Ain't ego a bitch? It is that element that drives DJS towards the persuance of excellence in this craft...but also that which makes us difficult goons to deal with. "

Very true
Rebelguy 6:31 PM - 6 October, 2005
Will turntables ever be replaced...who knows but I do know that they are a dying breed. At the recent concert we had for our station, every DJ with the exception of Ying Yang's was using CDJ-1000s. Before anyone decides to tweak out and think that these were small time groups, they were the DJs for Kanye West, Common, Talib, and David Banner just to name a few. Serato was being implemented with one of the DJs but he was using it with CDJs and not turntables. I think on the recent MTV awards show a lot of the DJs were using CDJs also. The only person I remember on turntables was Grandmaster Flash.

On another note...props go out to all the DJs repping Serato at the MPS. It really pushed a lot of the other guys at my station to evaluate it again. The main concerns are still the lack of Master Tempo and the time consuming setup at events but they may come around. =)
djjstylz 7:52 PM - 6 October, 2005
HAHAHA, it wasn't about defending anyone or kissing up to anyone, it was about pointing out the fact that some people try to put down people they know absolutely nothing about.

Rebel, are you using serato at the station? I haven't been in the 106 studio but when I have spun at 94.9 I remember the mixer being screwed in and it would've been impossible to plug in without jazzy or leslie yelling at me.

On the TT tip, I have never liked the feel of CD players, everything felt too artificial. To me it's not about "keeping it real" and sticking to TT's because i'm a "real" dj, It's about using what works best for me. Serato gives me the real wax fealing under my fingers and got rid of the weight issue that cd's would get rid of. Great product by a great team.
s42000 7:55 PM - 6 October, 2005
Sellouts !!! :-)
skutch 9:47 PM - 6 October, 2005
check out these turntables and see if that changes yo mindz
www.flickr.com
Rebelguy 9:48 PM - 6 October, 2005
J Stylz...we got Serato in at KMEL but no is using it on air yet. I am probably going to start next week as I just got all my music inputed the way I want. The only problem is that they have it wired to the CDJs rather than the turntables so I might just bring in my own sysytem for my mix. Wild is supposedly getting it installed sometime soon but the only person using it there right now is Leslie.

I understand your stance on the feel of TTs over CD players. To me the CDJs were a matter of practicality rather than performance. Serato is finally going to bring me back to what I enjoy the most though...those damn vinyl records...haha.
hologram 9:59 PM - 6 October, 2005
Quote:

I understand your stance on the feel of TTs over CD players. To me the CDJs were a matter of practicality rather than performance. Serato is finally going to bring me back to what I enjoy the most though...those damn vinyl records...haha.


From a performance stance its like what happened when DAT came out. More acts had a Dat track and stood behind the 12s just scratching. Of course then there was Public Enemy who just took it in stride, if the record skipped it skipped, keep mixing and rhyming.
hologram 10:01 PM - 6 October, 2005
Quote:
check out these turntables and see if that changes yo mindz
www.flickr.com


Ah nooooo...
they took my idea,
After seeing that pimp my turntable I started toying with all the extra Lamenent I have. Oh well got to think of something else.

Really cool job though, I'm impressed.
bush 10:54 PM - 6 October, 2005
I think they are on the way out to be honest. Everyones buying cdjs these days.
djjstylz 1:23 AM - 7 October, 2005
Rebel-Well thats cool that they put it in, I wish clubs would start installing the box, it would help like hell. E-Roc got serato a few months ago and last time I talked to Romeo he was wanting to get it to. People that just heard of serato didn't know that you actually still spin on vinyl and not in the laptop like PC DJ. The more Dj's jump on it, the more clubs will install it. So far I ony know of DNA having it upstairs.

Anyone heard or know of what turntable sales are like? I remember hearing a few years back that they were outselling guitars but I am sure CDJ's have been selling like crazy lately.
hologram 2:14 AM - 7 October, 2005
You can buy a 1200 at best buy if that says anything about demand.
Rebelguy 3:58 AM - 7 October, 2005
Quote:
Rebel-Well thats cool that they put it in, I wish clubs would start installing the box, it would help like hell. E-Roc got serato a few months ago and last time I talked to Romeo he was wanting to get it to. People that just heard of serato didn't know that you actually still spin on vinyl and not in the laptop like PC DJ. The more Dj's jump on it, the more clubs will install it. So


Are you sure they have it at DNA? I was there a couple of weeks ago and I haven't seen any boxes there. Now that I think about it, they just told us that they recently got CDJs in. If they do have it then it will save me a major hassle the next time I am there.
Rebelguy 4:01 AM - 7 October, 2005
Quote:
You can buy a 1200 at best buy if that says anything about demand.


This could be a good sign but it should be noted that to become a technics dealer you need to purchase $500,000 of there product in a year. Not a big deal for Best Buy I'm sure but it really wouldn't hurt them to cover all bases of being a Technics dealer and carry some turntables. Do they still have them at Circuit City? I know they used to carry them at Good Guys but they are going out of business so ir really doesn't matter.
djjstylz 10:54 AM - 7 October, 2005
I meant upstairs in the back room, the main room never even had CDJ's from what I remember. Last time I was there Barry was talking about putting CDJ's in the main room, and we also talked Clint into taking a couple shots which is usually hard for me to do. I saw both serato and Stanton boxes plugged in the back room. I figured the club had them installed.
djjstylz 11:05 AM - 7 October, 2005
It was at least 3-4 weeks back last time I was there just hangin, actually it was a Element night and we went there after doing loft. Do you know if Mission rock is still open? I heard there was a party last Sat but I thought they shut down a while back.
AKIEM 10:26 AM - 8 October, 2005
theres been over 3 million Technics 1200s sold in a little over 30 years. Mine are both over 10 years old and work perfectly. theres gotta be million of them out there. I doubt theres that many cd tables out there.



1 Allot of rap crew DJs switched to CD for various reasons chief being instrumentals. I think theres a good chance many move to SSLwhen its clear how stable it is. I did (I do keep a cdj on hand tho)

2 I only know one club DJ that got himself a set Technics CD joints. He DID have an advantage, but even he is going to switch to SSL I know people do clubs with CDJs but I doubt any of them where migrants from vinyl. I think they tend to have started with CD and even have good reason to move to SSL now.

3 There arnt any turntablist that moved to cd.

out of those three types of DJs there is only one type who absolutely will not budge away from tts,and I doubt there will ever be a such thing as a cdjabalist.

and I think the turntablist by themselves are enough to keep the tt alive.

but I do think the Numark HDX class of cd/hd players will give SSL some good competition. Mostly because they will always be a more rugged durable system, the biggest advantage for the tour DJ. and the laptop system did not start too well with them other systems. but no mater how good they are they will have a hard time dislodging the CDJ from its position on the rider, maybe in the club.

But If a club were going to choose a next upgrade they would do better to save some chips and start with an SSL instillation and a tt tune-up before they cop some new cd decks, thet just bought some.


Any way I do think the turntable was some in danger of disappearing before SSL came along.

I speculate Panasonic was planning on there Technics cd decks taking the place of the 1200s. Reason is I wanted to replace the pc board where the output cables connect, come to find out they discontinued the part. ha, as if everyone was going to chuck there tts grab some cd decks. what they should have done is make a 1220MK with a usb port and a jog shuttle on it.

price
SSL $600 + powerbook $1500 = $2100
CDJ1000 $1000 x 2 = $2000

I believe SSL will be a new standard

turntables are here to stay
in fact I believe it possible they outlast cd, it might sound crazy but the industry is going to change formats eventually they always do. maybe straight to file transfer, whatever. no one is going to want a "cd emulator"

when I update my tech rider, Im going to include SSL
sixxx 4:51 PM - 8 October, 2005
Good points Akiem. I'm starting a new club in my area (brand new club) and guess what? SSL will be in full effect. They bought turntables and a CDX but as soon as they saw my live demo with SSL they decided to get their own as well. :)
Teknikscian 6:17 PM - 10 October, 2005
Quote:
Turntablists and vinyl junkies are a special breed. We ain't going nowhere.

I go digging in used music shops alongside grey-haired granddads, japanese tourists and business men in suits... Vinyl junkies are here to stay. Unfortunatly too many shops are closing left and right to make way for the monsters- HMV, Virgin, etc.

Maybe it is just nostalgia, but I won't ever stop buying vinyl and I think there are a lot of us out there who feel the same way (can I get an amen?) Of course its easier and lighter to play cds but where is the love?


AMEN!

and i have yet to hear a CD dj in a club that actually put on a dope set. i know they are out there, just havent heard one yet..
Rebelguy 10:30 PM - 10 October, 2005
Quote:

AMEN!

and i have yet to hear a CD dj in a club that actually put on a dope set. i know they are out there, just havent heard one yet..


I have seen many DJs put on a dope set on CDJs. DJ Apollo of scratch pickle fame comes to mind first and foremost. Before Jazzy Jeff switched to Serato he was doing some dope stuff on CDJs mixed with vinyl.
sixxx 10:56 PM - 10 October, 2005
Rebelguy, that may be so. But, HE STILL HASN'T heard one yet. :)
Dj KaGeN 9:42 PM - 11 October, 2005
When I first saw a DJ using CD's it was a wedding DJ.. Very little mixing required, just stop and start - and harldy any use of the pitch control..... needless to say I was jaded.

Then the improvements came to the technology, the platters were add'd to emulate vinyl. The technology is still getting better, but for those of use that essentially look/read vinyl and know where to drop a needle and nearly hit the spot every time, just the thought of not being able to cue like this seems devestating. You can hot cue or know where in minutes, but this seems cumbersome still today on CD's, and scratching is getting close, but all the tricks that decks do will most likey never be copied. Granted there are sampler tricks that CD's can do, and this is where I think DJ's can make and break it all up.. Hell - different strokes for different folks or it really depends what you feel comfortable on.


As for the TT die hards and vinyl diggers of the world- We all can sleep well under our hand-stiched Afghan's knowing those CD users sleep just as well tucked under the machine threaded blankets. Some things regardless of how dated they are still do a fantastic job and just aren't easily replaced.
DJBlisk 9:59 PM - 11 October, 2005
Whats the point of emulating a turntable when you can do anything (especially with an efx and SSL) that a cdj can do?
AKIEM 1:06 AM - 12 October, 2005
Quote:
Whats the point of emulating a turntable when you can do anything (especially with an efx and SSL) that a cdj can do?



Ive decided to tour with SSL. But I know it would be easier with two CDJS(better yet on the rider). Allot less to worry about setting up, breaking down. Less chance for problems, etc. I dont really like CDJs otherwise, but I would consider one or the other CD joints with the platter etc.

Ive dont three tours with CDJ as secondary and primary decks and have had to replace one of them twice on the road. There is no way to make it through a tour with out loosing/destroying a good amount of gear.

I wont take SSL on the road without taking a redundant back up system. Double of everything. and a cdj on the table... for now.

so theres still reason for the cd emulator
skutch 7:35 AM - 12 October, 2005
Quote:
Here's something you can't do with vinyl that you can do with a CD: set a cue point to a specific sound that you like, set the pitch at 25% or higher and tap the "cue" button while moving the pitch slider up & down the scale as you see fit; you can play melodies, effectively changing the CD player into a sampler (of course, to do this well takes practice). To do the same thing with vinyl you would have to needle-drop on the same spot for each "note" while changing the pitch... easy if you're playing half or quarter notes, but nearly impossible for 8ths or 16ths...

i'm sold, anybody want some free techs? LOL
sixxx 4:17 PM - 12 October, 2005
Quote:
Quote:
Here's something you can't do with vinyl that you can do with a CD: set a cue point to a specific sound that you like, set the pitch at 25% or higher and tap the "cue" button while moving the pitch slider up & down the scale as you see fit; you can play melodies, effectively changing the CD player into a sampler (of course, to do this well takes practice). To do the same thing with vinyl you would have to needle-drop on the same spot for each "note" while changing the pitch... easy if you're playing half or quarter notes, but nearly impossible for 8ths or 16ths...

i'm sold, anybody want some free techs? LOL


hahaha
hologram 8:57 PM - 12 October, 2005
Quote:
Here's something you can't do with vinyl that you can do with a CD: set a cue point to a specific sound that you like, set the pitch at 25% or higher and tap the "cue" button while moving the pitch slider up & down the scale as you see fit; you can play melodies, effectively changing the CD player into a sampler (of course, to do this well takes practice). To do the same thing with vinyl you would have to needle-drop on the same spot for each "note" while changing the pitch... easy if you're playing half or quarter notes, but nearly impossible for 8ths or 16ths...


Um I thought I saw some kid in Japan do this playing jingle bells with the tune during a dmc battle in the 80s. Maybe not as well but I would say Yes it can be done on TT.
I thought I saw some one do it to start there second set in the heads up final this year or last. Played the death march I think. Of course that may have been an ongoing tone.
Zion-Prayz 12:35 AM - 13 October, 2005
Quote:
Here's something you can't do with vinyl that you can do with a CD: set a cue point to a specific sound that you like, set the pitch at 25% or higher and tap the "cue" button while moving the pitch slider up & down the scale as you see fit; you can play melodies, effectively changing the CD player into a sampler (of course, to do this well takes practice). To do the same thing with vinyl you would have to needle-drop on the same spot for each "note" while changing the pitch... easy if you're playing half or quarter notes, but nearly impossible for 8ths or 16ths...


I don't know..Grand Wizard Theodore might be able to needle drop that precise :)
earwolf 11:13 PM - 13 October, 2005
Quote:
It can be done, just not as quickly... especially with transient sounds like cymbals that don't last for an entire rotation of the record for the simple fact that you have to wait for the platter to rotate before you can needle-drop in the same spot again.

now if you're using a simple, long tone on a 12" to do this then you can do it all day... but I'm talking about using -any- sound.


man sorry but who cares about that?

cd's are fragile garbage, a ludicrous format right from the start and i'm glad they are dying a death. the technics dz was the most idiotic release in the history of dj equipment, it was as damaging to technics as fs has been to stanton, good riddance to those shortsighted ripoff companies

ssl has just cleaned up in the dj market and set a trend like almost nothing else. i remember the initial buzz about 1200's in 1986, you basically had to have them or you were a joker. ssl is going through that right now, even the most uptight stubborn vinyl dickheads and gimmicky cdj goons have finally twigged what is important - the holy trinity of stability, feel and access (range of files, speed of selection, portability of unit)

the only fly in the ointment is the installs. club owners are tight fisted and have been stung for all sorts of flakey crap over recent years - only those with half a clue will know they need an ssl inhouse. until then the sticking point is turning up to play with ssl and getting no access to i/o. we need the next level of solution to overcome this.
AKIEM 1:00 AM - 14 October, 2005
^^^^^^^
word
AKIEM 4:24 AM - 14 October, 2005
in the end you will be able to do everything with SSL that you can do with CDJ. But can you do everthing on a CDJ that you can do with SSL?
AKIEM 9:08 PM - 14 October, 2005
maybe comparing keyboards to pianos.

SSL is like plugin your laptop into a piano.
Peeti-V 12:41 AM - 16 October, 2005
naw...how about the banjo
sixxx 5:06 AM - 16 October, 2005
Nah. How about the spoon!?
defjamblaster 5:25 AM - 16 October, 2005
i think one way to look at it is that nothing will take the place of a turntable, something may just evolve beyond it. for example, a painter's brush and paint will always be the standard by which an artist is judged, even though there is computer animation now. most would agree it takes much more TALENT and skill to paint with a brush and real paint that may drip, splatter, etc., than it does to animate on a computer. the computer has replaced traditional cel art animation, like the kind most of us grew up watching on Tom & Jerry, painstakingly done cel by cel by hand. It took them years to complete one six minute cartoon! even though computers do it faster and sleeker, the original format will never be REPLACED, just go through an EVOLUTION. same for DJing. Technics 1200 MKII's will probably always be the standard by which a DJ is judged, right or wrong, because that is the origin of the artform. the nostalgic ideal of a DJ will be that picture of Mixmaster Ice on the first UTFO album cover, sitting behind two technics in flight cases. THAT'S how the world does and should see a DJ, and may do so for some time to come. i love eliminating the transport of several hundred pounds of vinyl that serato has provided, AS WELL AS the ability to still pay homage to the art of DJing at the same time. I couldn't push a button or let a software do all the work for me, even if i was selecting the music. i'd rather get a desk job with benefits if i'm gonna be bored at work. The uncertainty of using a turntable is part of the excitement of being a true, acknowledged, and accepted DJ. i know the record may skip. hell, serato may freeze up! I hafta have the talent and quick wit to keep the party going while i fix whatever the problem may be...in closing (whew!), the perfection that some other medium may bring, to me, would be boring. Some of you may DJ as your jobs, but i am a true DJ, who just happens to make a living at it. I would DJ in my room by myself no matter what job i had. the moment i think of DJing as just a job, i'm done. it would be over. therefore, i would never want some technology to do most of the work for me...next we'll have robots playing basketball instead of people, remote controlled nascar, and cybersex suits!
hologram 5:47 PM - 16 October, 2005
Pianos, thats a better analogy.
Turntables will die when they do.
sixxx 8:30 PM - 16 October, 2005
Turntables for me will die when I die. After that, I really won't care what happens to them. lol
SpinThis! 10:27 PM - 16 October, 2005
i'd expect eventually clubs to put in a permanent computer install (an iMac is just about perfect) so all the DJ has to do is bring his portable hard drive.
AKIEM 10:38 PM - 16 October, 2005
if I had a club I would instal a mac mini. BYOHD


and I would do that before a cdj whatever instilation
SpinThis! 10:46 PM - 16 October, 2005
you still need a keyboard, mouse and monitor with a mac mini. have you ever seen the back of a mini? try plugging equipment in and out. the big plus to having an imac is having usb/firwire ports on the computer monitor itself. that's right out there in the open for DJs to plug in their gear whre it's more lit and the ports are easy to find. the last thing you want in a permanent installation is DJs messing around in the corner trying to find the computer tower to plug stuff in.
AKIEM 11:58 PM - 16 October, 2005
nah, I would have a complete SSL mac mini instilation. meaning all cables would be extended from the mini to a panel position. plug in you laptop or your bootable firewire hd and its all good. no need to touch tha back of tha mac in tha acc
sixxx 3:21 AM - 17 October, 2005
Quote:
no need to touch tha back of tha mac...


You molester. lol
hologram 1:16 AM - 19 October, 2005
Quote:
you still need a keyboard, mouse and monitor with a mac mini. have you ever seen the back of a mini? try plugging equipment in and out. the big plus to having an imac is having usb/firwire ports on the computer monitor itself. that's right out there in the open for DJs to plug in their gear whre it's more lit and the ports are easy to find. the last thing you want in a permanent installation is DJs messing around in the corner trying to find the computer tower to plug stuff in.


You should use a small extension cable or a cheap hub. That way when the wear and tear kills the usb ports form every DJ (and some weird people) plugging things into it everynight kills it. You just have to replace the cable or mini hub.
hologram 1:16 AM - 19 October, 2005
opps didn;t see AKIEM's post.
hiphopmixtapes 2:06 AM - 28 October, 2005
As far as turntables going away I am worried that with more and more people moving towards serato and Final Scratch that eventually Records will become a thing of the past. It's not the same getting an LP 12" cover signed by an artist vs a little crappy CD case. Also Vinyl has always been the most reliable medium for DJs I have had so many problems with CD players that I laugh when someone tells me if I can play their demo CD at the club- Even if it is hot- I always felt if they didn't put the effort to get DJs Vinyl then it probably isn't worthy. It is definitly easier for me to quickly switch and cue a song on vinyl allowing for quick remixes using acapellas and instrumentals and for quick mixing using say the intro of one song getting the crowd hype and then blasting em with an even harder song making em have a dance orgy. The only downfall of vinyl is it's lack of portability, well and to a lesser degree its skip potential but that can be minimized through proper care and handling. I have decided to switch to serato due to it's ability to organize my crates in more than just one way. But I am afraid that having more and more DJs switching to different formats may dry up the turntable industry as well. And to me Serato is still one more piece of equipment that can fail during a club night whereas Vinyl is trustworthy and reliable... It has never failed me.
s42000 4:30 PM - 28 October, 2005
Quote:

cd's are fragile garbage, a ludicrous format right from the start and i'm glad they are dying a death.

AMEN !!
Quote:

the technics dz was the most idiotic release in the history of dj equipment, it was as damaging to technics as fs has been to stanton, good riddance to those shortsighted ripoff companies

AMEN !!!
Quote:

ssl has just cleaned up in the dj market and set a trend like almost nothing else.

AMEN !!!!
Quote:

even the most uptight stubborn vinyl dickheads and gimmicky cdj goons have finally twigged what is important

U BETTA REKONIZE .... AMEN !!!!!
Quote:

until then the sticking point is turning up to play with ssl and getting no access to i/o. we need the next level of solution to overcome this.


Time will tell .... and I hope it tells a good story.
s42000 4:45 PM - 28 October, 2005
Quote:
And to me Serato is still one more piece of equipment that can fail during a club night whereas Vinyl is trustworthy and reliable... It has never failed me.


That is exactly what all club owners said when they were told that they no longer need a live band playing music in the club. Instead, a DJ playing back the bands records will do. At the time the turntable was 'that' inhuman contraption that would mess up .. and only one guy controlling all the night's music did not seem to provide that stable feeling either .. now we are here. We do not even give a thought about it.

SSL is IMHO is right up there, provide a good platform for it and you will reap the rewards.