DJing Discussion

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Undercutting in the DJ Game

mikenyce 10:28 PM - 23 August, 2011
I was on another DJ forum and there was a big discussion about how some DJ's are upset because the "new" DJ's of today are undercutting them by charging $100-$150 for gigs and therefor taking gigs from them because they want to charge @ least $300 just to come out of the house. Everyone agreed that the $300 DJ is better and will do a better job at the event, however, doesnt get the job just because of the price.

My questions are:

1- What are your thoughts on this?
2- Is the $100-$150 DJ doing something wrong? If so, what is your issue with it?
DJ Awyse 10:37 PM - 23 August, 2011
Never seen this discussion before.....

Who cares, it's called capitalism. Your local mom and pop shop gets pissed when you buy something they sell for a steep discount on amazon. Same thing with DJing. I think DJing has opened up making the barrier to entry easier. If you want to charge more/have people perceive you as a higher value, start producing your own stuff. Controllers make DJing easier, but production will always have a steep learning curve that prevents me toos from joining in.
Rebelguy 10:38 PM - 23 August, 2011
1. It's the name of the game and a lot of times the crowd doesn't really care. Realistically if you want to make decent money the club scene is not where you want to be.

2. I have no issue with it. It's just hard to raise your prices later on down the line if you are known as the $100 DJ.
Rebelguy 10:40 PM - 23 August, 2011
Quote:
Controllers make DJing easier, but production will always have a steep learning curve that prevents me toos from joining in.


It's not really that hard to produce. Anyone can youtube videos on how to do something in any program. It won't teach you how to make a good song though. You either got it or you don't.
Dj-M.Bezzle 10:42 PM - 23 August, 2011
wowo i hope this thread takes a better turn because so far there hasnt been an inteligent thought yet. no wander the dj game is fucked up. Sometimes i wander if i wouild have ever bothered with DJing if i knew i was going to be doing it durring the appocolapse of the art AND busniess of the act.
DJGeorgeT 11:04 PM - 23 August, 2011
there will always be low ballers. It is the job of the higher rate dj to market himself better and show that his services are worth the higher rate.
O.B.1 11:11 PM - 23 August, 2011
Quote:
there will always be low ballers. It is the job of the higher rate dj to market himself better and show that his services are worth the higher rate. DJ George here!


+1
sixxx 11:28 PM - 23 August, 2011
Any respectable DJ that is getting their music legally (paying for it), spends thousands on professional equipment, has the necessary skills to really rock a party and spent hundreds of hours to become a better DJ is going to value what he does a lot more. So, if Joe DJ who isn't very knowledgeable and is trying to rock a party with sub par equipment can keep doing so. Especially, if he can't see that the clubs or promoters he's working his ass off for are making bank and he isn't.
mikenyce 11:36 PM - 23 August, 2011
Quote:
wowo i hope this thread takes a better turn because so far there hasnt been an inteligent thought yet. no wander the dj game is fucked up. Sometimes i wander if i wouild have ever bothered with DJing if i knew i was going to be doing it durring the appocolapse of the art AND busniess of the act.






Did you have an answer to the questions??
R-Tistic 11:56 PM - 23 August, 2011
I honestly can't answer because I'm in L.A., and even though there may be undercutters for certain scenes (dive bars, house parties, etc) when it comes to major events, it's damn sure not about who's cheapest. No way possible that a random bedroom DJ is gonna step into Blvd 3, Colony, or Drais solely because he has a cheaper price. Promoters and owners here tend to go for bigger named DJ's because they bring crowds ($$$), and because they bring celebs and other folks who bring $$$....so it wouldn't make sense to just go for who's cheapest at these types of spots.

I notice that some DJ's complain about getting undercut and the fact that folks don't want to pay them as much, but SOME of them were almost lucky to be getting paid as much as they were at one time. Some of them aren't even at the top of their game anymore, and aren't killin it how they used to, which may not even be their fault.
reggae delgado 11:59 PM - 23 August, 2011
Quote:
wowo i hope this thread takes a better turn because so far there hasnt been an inteligent thought yet. no wander the dj game is fucked up. Sometimes i wander if i wouild have ever bothered with DJing if i knew i was going to be doing it durring the appocolapse of the art AND busniess of the act.


damn man that has a lot of typos even for you, bezzle!
DJGeorgeT 12:19 AM - 24 August, 2011
Quote:
I honestly can't answer because I'm in L.A., and even though there may be undercutters for certain scenes (dive bars, house parties, etc) when it comes to major events, it's damn sure not about who's cheapest. No way possible that a random bedroom DJ is gonna step into Blvd 3, Colony, or Drais solely because he has a cheaper price. Promoters and owners here tend to go for bigger named DJ's because they bring crowds ($$$), and because they bring celebs and other folks who bring $$$....so it wouldn't make sense to just go for who's cheapest at these types of spots.


Those guys are rock stars and they are on a different level. Having said that, most big names are fantastic business people.
mikenyce 12:20 AM - 24 August, 2011
I totally agree @DJ AWYSE it is capatalism and nobody owes anyone anything, however, I got blasted for saying the same thing on the other forum.

@ R-Tistic I agree with you too and its not the Jazzy Jeff's of the game AKA the "cash cow" to the club owner/promoter that I'm talking about, because they get what they want wherever they go. I'm talking about the more local DJ's who hold down the weeklies (I know someone said there is no money in the clubs...not true...it just depends on the deal u make with the owner and if you hold up your end of the deal!!) and kills it and then DJ microwave comes in with his ipad and says hey I'll charge you less than him to do this event. I right now hold down @ least 4 nights a week at different spots. I dont really worry about undercutters because I'm known enough that it doesnt/hasnt happened to me. I was just wondering if anyone else goes thru this.
DJGeorgeT 12:27 AM - 24 August, 2011
Quote:
Quote:
there will always be low ballers. It is the job of the higher rate dj to market himself better and show that his services are worth the higher rate. DJ George here!


+1


Is this The OB1? \o/ /o/ \o\ <o> \o/
shaukd 12:29 AM - 24 August, 2011
The guys/ girls doing all the undercutting, they DJ because they have a Job and DJn is 2nd in their career choice. They undercut because they just got a check from their day job and they only need enough money to pay for their bar tab or the hotel room. When DJn is your full time job and your family relies on you to bring home money to feed them, you look at how much you make much differently. I spend hours working on music, looking for the best tracks, practice, and marketing everyday. When a "DJ" walks in and does a gig on the cheap or for free it does get under my skin. I know all the managers and owners in the city where I live. I should I have been DJn in this town for the last 8 years. The only reason a bar or nightclub uses them is because they wanna save a few bucks. From experience I have seen the guys who undercut do the gigs for awhile then slowly but surely they get pushed out and they call you back to "DJ". I get undercut all the time, but I wait it out and it always comes back around... Capitalism... I don't know about that, I think its more about trying to get your foot in the door more than anything else. Again DJ full time and you see things way different than the part timer...
R-Tistic 1:17 AM - 24 August, 2011
But not even the Rock Stars. For Black clubs here...DJ Mark Da Spot, DJ Jam X, Tendaji, Orator, etc. etc...it's folks in L.A. who don't even know who some of them are. But they have their crowds and celeb connects n will always get the major club spots over the lesser knowns and iPod DJ's.

Those "Rock star" types are def great businessmen though.
echa1945mf 2:07 AM - 24 August, 2011
same here , in small bars maybe filled with newbies whos willing to be payed cheaply for a gig , but the major clubs ? not a chance they prefer to payed more establish DJ even if theyre more expensive , the problem here is even breaking out to the main dj circuit , even some DJ's who has played for years is having trouble getting gigs at major clubs coz here , if your not well known,got some celebrity conects and affiliated with the big name crew .... you can forget about makin it to the major clubs
reggae delgado 2:30 AM - 24 August, 2011
i think that there are different types of "undercutters"... there are the folks like shaukd mentioned who get a spot and then quickly lose it, but there are also the cats that are fresh & working hard & just want a spot.
It was long as hell ago, but I know I was called an "undercutter" by bands who were playing the places that I was trying to get into with my turntables, but the reality was also that I was rocking whatever bar/club/garage/house/tailgate that would have me since I was just 15 and super into it. Fuck undercut, I just wanted to play, and now with a "DJ" needing only a computer, the people in that position are 100x as many. Then again, I was smart/lucky enough to latch onto some pros to show me around so I actually got decent. Nowadays, I spend a lot of my time scoffing at newbies instead of helping them.
I was at a small bar recently and there were two DJs doing a serious hack job with their computer & I was calling them undercutters & clowning unmercifully. Then I get cornered by homeboy in the restroom and he was like "I have your mixes, I seen you at this & that club, I'm sorry I suck, it must be hella irritating, I would love it if you'd show me some things and teach me" and I felt like an ass. I'm sure if he had heard me, he would busted an attitude & kept on sucking, but talking more trash. Instead I realized that he was exactly where I was years ago, in love with music & making people dance, but didn't have/sharpen the technical fundamentals, and that if somebody showed him the craft, maybe he wouldn't suck. It's a little harder for these new cats, there aren't just crews to carry records & speakers for so much anymore, we're a lot more individual now. But that's for guys just getting started....
Then again there's the guy who talked to a bar manager I was dealing with... the manager said "hey I also hear there's a guy who's as good as you but he said he's $50 cheaper than you." I was like "how much would he charge?" and the manager said "just whatever 50$ less than you would be."
Rebelguy 3:25 AM - 24 August, 2011
Quote:
wowo i hope this thread takes a better turn because so far there hasnt been an inteligent thought yet. no wander the dj game is fucked up. Sometimes i wander if i wouild have ever bothered with DJing if i knew i was going to be doing it durring the appocolapse of the art AND busniess of the act.


At one time I would have been offended by this but honestly now don't have the time to give a shit.
Dj-M.Bezzle 1:43 PM - 24 August, 2011
Quote:
Quote:
wowo i hope this thread takes a better turn because so far there hasnt been an inteligent thought yet. no wander the dj game is fucked up. Sometimes i wander if i wouild have ever bothered with DJing if i knew i was going to be doing it durring the appocolapse of the art AND busniess of the act.






Did you have an answer to the questions??



sure

1- 1- What are your thoughts on this? People who undercharge are lowering the bar not only for themselves but for everyone else the money IS there to get and your just walking away from it, and most likley your the ONLY ONE in the food chain doing so


2- Is the $100-$150 DJ doing something wrong? If so, what is your issue with it? See above answer
Dj-M.Bezzle 1:45 PM - 24 August, 2011
Quote:
Quote:
wowo i hope this thread takes a better turn because so far there hasnt been an inteligent thought yet. no wander the dj game is fucked up. Sometimes i wander if i wouild have ever bothered with DJing if i knew i was going to be doing it durring the appocolapse of the art AND busniess of the act.


damn man that has a lot of typos even for you, bezzle!



lol reading those 1st few points people were trying to make cause my brain to go into shock for a moment (and i was on the way out of work lol)
Crickett 2:06 PM - 24 August, 2011
Promote the night/venue yourself... Then you can pay yourself whatever you want... Now that's capitalism.
DeeJay*CASPER 3:31 PM - 24 August, 2011
moral of the story…..make yourself valuable, then you'll be looking at this sitation and laughing instead of getting mad
Dixon Twamley 6:55 PM - 24 August, 2011
The best way to make money where I live? There are no clubs here, so easy. Go out into the country. That is the first step. Find a very nice farmer who has a BIG barn. Ask him to rent you this barn for a certain amount of dollars or other commodities and then set up a huge P.A. system and power it with a generator. Call your other DJ buddies (who know what they are doing) Ask them to come, ask them to bring equipment... Bring your own equipment too. Things go wrong so why not?

Have a clever friend who does graphic design (professionally) design flyers and print a couple hundred or thousand, depending on where you live. Collect your money and distribute tickets...

Party it up, pay yourself, pay your friends, and pray the cops don't come....

Its a joke but it has been proven to work.
Mr. Goodkat 7:08 PM - 24 August, 2011
i sold 7k worth of bottles last week(maybe my biggest week ever, i only dj/not a vip host). learn to make money for the club, and you get paid more.
Crickett 7:11 PM - 24 August, 2011
Quote:
i sold 7k worth of bottles last week(maybe my biggest week ever, i only dj/not a vip host). learn to make money for the club, and you get paid more.



+1
Dixon Twamley 7:14 PM - 24 August, 2011
Quote:
i sold 7k worth of bottles last week(maybe my biggest week ever, i only dj/not a vip host). learn to make money for the club, and you get paid more.


I envy you. I wish there were a club scene here. In the great Sick Lake Valley of Utah it was easy cheesy, squeezy! Tons of ways to make money. Especially when you know most of the event producers... And yes, many a friend of mine makes money off the club scene on the weekend.. NO DOUBT.

Here where I am, there is no scene. Its like being stuck in the 70's. I grew up here, its ok. I moved for a reason. (BORING)

I would love to pioneer the scene here. There are a few groups out of Fargo ND like Sovereign Sect that are a Dubstep group. They ROCK. Its a small scene but I think I could make a HUGE scene if I get the right people and the right money involved. The old folks and city council won't like me, but hey. Sometimes creating a new way creates a bit friction with the old schoolers... (I mean baby boomers)
Mr. Goodkat 7:30 PM - 24 August, 2011
don't, i had to drink a lot of that, and had a hang over for 2 days. it was fun at the time though:D
Dixon Twamley 7:42 PM - 24 August, 2011
Ok, so I see a lot of negative posts here so let me add that there are indeed different reasons people would "undercut". Number 1 reason I see in MY situation is, there are NO OTHER DJS HERE TO UNDERCUT. Because you have no one to raise the bar, the bar is not going to raise the bar on your pay check...

I recently went to a small bar just outside of my hometown in ND. I talked to the owner and said "Hey, my name is Dixon and I play music. I have my own equipment and keep it real. I have this and that, etc... Would you be interested in having me come out to play for a night?" He said, "Yeah, sure! How much do you charge?"

This is where I got screwed. No other DJs = No Competition but really, really crappy pay.

I told the guy I would do it for $500. It is a bar show. He said, "Well, if I didn't like you i'd just tell you to go to hell. What else can we agree on for a price? We'd love to have you come out."

I then asked for $300. This IS for 4-5 hours of my time, mind you. Plus the cost of hauling my TTs, mixer, speakers, and other random equipment to this crappy bar to play for practically nothing. He still wouldn't do it.

There is no market here for DJs. DJs are a dying breed in the first place. I will state that I got quite angry when I found a guy was making 2K dollars a wedding, DJing from his LAPTOP. It crashed three times during the night.... He didn't know a thing about mixing... He just played requests, had a few cheap lights and some speakers... I about crapped my pants.

This guy has the gull to offer me $175 for 4-5 hours of my time. I don't like it but there is nothing I can do about that. No industry = no demand. I'm one of the dying breeds of analog DJs to boot, even though I do use DVS. I agree.

Am I undercutting? Yes, MYSELF! Not someone else. No one else. This is one situation in which undercutting must be done in order to get my music out there. I don't think this guy understands what a turntable is none the less the fact that most of the music I play is remixed or produced by MYSELF...

Ehh. You do what you can do to have fun and love doing it.
DJGeorgeT 7:42 PM - 24 August, 2011
Quote:
i sold 7k worth of bottles last week(maybe my biggest week ever, i only dj/not a vip host). learn to make money for the club, and you get paid more.


+1

bring value to your employer, you'll always have a job.
Dj-M.Bezzle 7:59 PM - 24 August, 2011
Quote:

there are NO OTHER DJS HERE TO UNDERCUT. Because you have no one to raise the bar, the bar is not going to raise the bar on your pay check...

This is where I got screwed. No other DJs = No Competition but really, really crappy pay.


incorrect, you had the perfect oppritunity to set the bar high, if your the only game in town YOU hold the supply, it was up to you to prove your worth and get that bar started high

Quote:

Am I undercutting? Yes, MYSELF! Not someone else. No one else.


Incorrect because the next DJ who follows you is now walking up to a $175 bar instead of a $300 bar


Quote:

I told the guy I would do it for $500. It is a bar show. He said, "Well, if I didn't like you i'd just tell you to go to hell. What else can we agree on for a price? We'd love to have you come out."



this is called busniess negotiation, of course they are gonna try to lower what they have to pay.

Quote:

There is no market here for DJs. DJs are a dying breed in the first place

Quote:

will state that I got quite angry when I found a guy was making 2K dollars a wedding, DJing from his LAPTOP. It crashed three times during the night.... He didn't know a thing about mixing... He just played requests, had a few cheap lights and some speakers... I about crapped my pants.



obviously there IS a market, you just arent working it right
Dixon Twamley 8:06 PM - 24 August, 2011
Quote:
incorrect, you had the perfect oppritunity to set the bar high, if your the only game in town YOU hold the supply, it was up to you to prove your worth and get that bar started high


Believe me. I tried. He could honestly not care less if it was a person or a jukebox. His bar only gets maybe 20-40 people a night.. A NIGHT. $500 is probably all the guy makes during rush time. I know how to negotiate. Sometimes the room for negotiation is very thin... I did what I could, within my means.


Quote:
Incorrect because the next DJ who follows you is now walking up to a $175 bar instead of a $300 bar

Like I said. There is no one else who DJs in this town and due to a population of only 7,000 people, I doubt people will be jumping in line for turntablism workshops.




Quote:
I told the guy I would do it for $500. It is a bar show. He said, "Well, if I didn't like you i'd just tell you to go to hell. What else can we agree on for a price? We'd love to have you come out."



Quote:
this is called busniess negotiation, of course they are gonna try to lower what they have to pay.


Did I mention that I know the guy? His bar is small. His revenues are marginal, at that. I stated $500 because that is a completely ridiculous amount to expect in this region unless you are in Fargo, ND. I am used to getting 300-500 a gig, yes. Not here. I've tried. Small bars equals small numbers in every category.

obviously there IS a market, you just arent working it right

There is a market, yes. The demand is small and so I am thus forced to try different marketing approaches. Bars aren't where the money is anyways. Clubs, event production and other things of that nature produce much better returns. Am I working it right? Probably not... I know how to negotiate but if $100 is all you can do, I MIGHT put my mixer in the flight case and possibly one of the turntables.
Dj-M.Bezzle 8:14 PM - 24 August, 2011
Quote:

Believe me. I tried. He could honestly not care less if it was a person or a jukebox. His bar only gets maybe 20-40 people a night.. A NIGHT. $500 is probably all the guy makes during rush time.


Exactly, thats where you have to stick it to him, if he only gets 20-40 people anight and mabye makes $500 then you explain to him that hiring you will bring in 100 people and $500 will be an hours tip money
djgrits7 8:20 PM - 24 August, 2011
Quote:
wowo i hope this thread takes a better turn because so far there hasnt been an inteligent thought yet. no wander the dj game is fucked up. Sometimes i wander if i wouild have ever bothered with DJing if i knew i was going to be doing it durring the appocolapse of the art AND busniess of the act.


djin isn't about making money man, it's about the love of djing...sometimes i wonder why you started djing in the first place..
Dj-M.Bezzle 8:31 PM - 24 August, 2011
Quote:
Quote:
wowo i hope this thread takes a better turn because so far there hasnt been an inteligent thought yet. no wander the dj game is fucked up. Sometimes i wander if i wouild have ever bothered with DJing if i knew i was going to be doing it durring the appocolapse of the art AND busniess of the act.


djin isn't about making money man, it's about the love of djing...sometimes i wonder why you started djing in the first place..



its about getting paid what your worth and not being taken advantage of, if your spending money on professional equipment and spending money on your music and spending your time on your library and on practice why should you be the bottom of the totem pole when it comes to split up the pie? You should definatley do it for the love, i also believe to be happy in a CAREER you have to find something you love to do and get paid for it. It was mentioned earlier that most people DJ for dirt cheap do it because they have day jobs, wouldnt you love to DO WHAT YOU LOVE full time and make as much money as you do at your day job WITHOUT having to sit in a cubicle or at some other trdious job to make ends meet...YOU COULD if everyone would just realise that the secong you do a performance that PEOPLE ARE PAYING TO SEE that you are doing a JOB and you are AT WORK.

My girlfriends sister husband LOVES weather related stuff, he went to college for it and he just got a 80 grand a year job as a weather researcher person (whatever the hell you call it lol). He does what he does for the love but do you think he would have turned down that 80gs a year?? Do you think he said nah i paid for college and busted my tail for 4 years but ill do it for free because i enjoy it..NO. Just becaue you enjoy something dosent mean you have to do it for free

Its one thing if noones getting paid but your an idiot if your spending tons of money to "do it for the love" and at the end of the night you -$100 in the hole and the owners and bartenders and security are walking out with 3 times as much as you are because while you were there for the love they were there for busniess.

Like I said earlier if it was done right and people would stop lowering the bar you COULD get paid what your worth and MAKE A GREAT LIVING out of DOING ONLY WHAT YOU LOVE!!!!

Bezzle rule of life find something you would gladly do for free and find someone who will pay you to do it.
shaukd 9:55 PM - 24 August, 2011
Bezzle you nailed it. It really is about what your worth! I have learned you can't always get by on whats in your backyard, sometimes you have to venture to other towns, citys or types of gigs your willing to DJ! If you truly love to DJ you will, you just have to figure out how.
DJGeorgeT 9:58 PM - 24 August, 2011
Quote:
Quote:
Believe me. I tried. He could honestly not care less if it was a person or a jukebox. His bar only gets maybe 20-40 people a night.. A NIGHT. $500 is probably all the guy makes during rush time.
Exactly, thats where you have to stick it to him, if he only gets 20-40 people anight and mabye makes $500 then you explain to him that hiring you will bring in 100 people and $500 will be an hours tip money


yeah, but be ready to work hard. If you can't do what you said you were going to do, you will lose any credibility you had. If those 100 people do not come in, you are finished.
Dj-M.Bezzle 9:59 PM - 24 August, 2011
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Believe me. I tried. He could honestly not care less if it was a person or a jukebox. His bar only gets maybe 20-40 people a night.. A NIGHT. $500 is probably all the guy makes during rush time.
Exactly, thats where you have to stick it to him, if he only gets 20-40 people anight and mabye makes $500 then you explain to him that hiring you will bring in 100 people and $500 will be an hours tip money


yeah, but be ready to work hard. If you can't do what you said you were going to do, you will lose any credibility you had. If those 100 people do not come in, you are finished.



+1 hence the "worth" your bringing
Dj Wunder 11:21 PM - 24 August, 2011
Quote:
Its one thing if noones getting paid but your an idiot if your spending tons of money to "do it for the love" and at the end of the night you -$100 in the hole and the owners and bartenders and security are walking out with 3 times as much as you are because while you were there for the love they were there for busniess.


Ermm... by my math that means the owners and bartenders are walking out with negative $300...

J/K sorry I'm an a$$ you truly hit the nail on the head with that breakdown. Dj's need to stop feeling guilty and shortchanging themselves just because it's one of the best careers in the world
Dixon Twamley 1:00 AM - 25 August, 2011
I agree with what you said. The problem is where one places "value".

My worth is determined by several things.. From the music I play, to how I play it, to how I mix it, and to how I work the crowd... The crowd part here can be an issue. I am mostly an EDM DJ. I don't have very many tracks of rock and roll or country. This is primarily what people here like. If I were to break out Bassnectar at the bar, there is about an equal chance that the whole place would go crazy and love it, and there is an even greater or at least equal chance that a majority would look at me weird and walk out...

I agree with DJ Wunder. DJs do need to ask for what they are worth. The truth is in the pudding, and the pudding is convincing the bar owners and patrons that you are the @$(* !!!! :)

Try introducing dance music to rednecks.. You'll get my predicament. (I am in no way judging them, either)
djvtyme85 1:18 AM - 25 August, 2011
the great thing about most americans is they have short attention spans...so dj'ing for them is a fad. nothing more. i dont even like to tell ppl i dj bc their usual response is "oh i know a lot of dj's" not realizing i been doing this since grade school smh...btw fuck microwaves....anyway when they see damn "i'm carrying in all this shit, standing for all these hours, my back is aching and i only got $100! fuck that i quit" lol
but oh yea lol even then i never had a problem with under cutters. my price is my price! you dont like it i dont need to hear about your choice later... it is what it is. yea i have had those calls "we wish we had of..." fuck em. i'm going to make my money one way or another. for all of you doing this full time i fully understand, but those of you do also know you only get what you work for. i got much respect for yall but i couldnt do it...
DJ Remy USA 2:19 AM - 25 August, 2011
Quote:
1. It's the name of the game and a lot of times the crowd doesn't really care. Realistically if you want to make decent money the club scene is not where you want to be.

2. I have no issue with it. It's just hard to raise your prices later on down the line if you are known as the $100 DJ.


Get some management and only work on contract problem solved. You can still do those one off nights for 250 but if you looking to make some money get some management and learn some productions to set yourself apart. The 100-150 Djs they suck major balls and they lack basic music knowledge, but alot of them can bring 30-40 people. So you need to get on your hustle get some management get some promo and start collabing
djvtyme85 2:31 AM - 25 August, 2011
Quote:
Quote:
1. It's the name of the game and a lot of times the crowd doesn't really care. Realistically if you want to make decent money the club scene is not where you want to be.

2. I have no issue with it. It's just hard to raise your prices later on down the line if you are known as the $100 DJ.


Get some management and only work on contract problem solved. You can still do those one off nights for 250 but if you looking to make some money get some management and learn some productions to set yourself apart. The 100-150 Djs they suck major balls and they lack basic music knowledge, but alot of them can bring 30-40 people. So you need to get on your hustle get some management get some promo and start collabing


true shit. another thing you can do is just put them on your squad and pay them crumps, sit back and count ya stacks
mikenyce 9:28 PM - 21 September, 2011
I appreciate everyones input on my question...I feel like it's always a good thing to bounce ideas off of people who do what you do, no matter what level!! So thanks fellas. Keep doin your thing!!
DJBIGWIZ 10:16 PM - 21 September, 2011
Quote:
Any respectable DJ that is getting their music legally (paying for it), spends thousands on professional equipment, has the necessary skills to really rock a party and spent hundreds of hours to become a better DJ is going to value what he does a lot more. So, if Joe DJ who isn't very knowledgeable and is trying to rock a party with sub par equipment can keep doing so. Especially, if he can't see that the clubs or promoters he's working his ass off for are making bank and he isn't.

+100
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1- What are your thoughts on this?
2- Is the $100-$150 DJ doing something wrong? If so, what is your issue with it?


1 It sucks
2 yes, there is everything wrong with it. We were getting paid way more than that in the 80's.
so 25+ years later the pay you can expect has dropped by more than half while minimum wage and the cost of living has gone up... that's backwards economics. It makes no damn sense. These microwave wannabe under cutters are devaluing what it is to be a DJ. The money is there... just get your skills up. You would rather take a quick dollar than spend a few extra months learning to be a better DJ so you could get a job based on your skill and earn 3-4 times more in the long run and get better gigs. I'm tired of these lazy instant wannabes that don't want to put in an ounce of work but want all the reward. You are not just making it hard for everyone, you are making it hard on yourself as well stupid... you could make some real money if you'd quit being so damn lazy. Everybody in the club is making more money than the DJ now. Wouldn't you rather get $800 - $1000 a night or hell, even $500 rather than having to settle for $100? If people would stop the stupidity, DJ's could start making money again. And yes, there will always be certain cats that will make good money and big clubs that pay well etc... but as a whole, you can't get paid what you should be getting paid because of this and that's what's wrong with it. If you are happy doing it for free then stay home and play for free in your room or at your friends birthday parties. If you are going to go out in to the world and take a real job, get paid real money and stop selling yourselves short. If you don't value yourself or what you have to offer more than that then you shouldn't be out in public anyway. If a position will pay $800 and you"ll do it for $100 and drinks then you are worthless and have nothing productive to offer... stay home.
And before some weekend warrior who has a "real job" and has never or could never DJ for a living idiot chimes in with the whole I'm just bitter and I just need to step my game up and I need to promote more and if you're good you"ll get all the gigs types of BS. I DO make good money I'm not the one who has to settle for low pay or undercut to get a gig... I'm speaking out in defense of real DJ's who are getting shorted by these crab ass wannabe in the spotlight frauds who don't even care about what's putting them there in the first place. You are no better than some of these little rich kids that have no skill at all so you build your fame around your rich daddy and the fact that he has money. You are trying to be the man and be popular for working for cheap or free... you are a joke!
DJ Da Kid 11:40 PM - 21 September, 2011
I do gigs for anything over a 100
djbanno 1:50 AM - 22 September, 2011
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I do men for anything over a 100

Wrong forum...
Mr. Goodkat 2:03 AM - 22 September, 2011
if there is a lot of money made at a club you should get money. if your bar rings under 2k, i wouldnt expect much, unless you bring 80%+ of the crowd, then you should get 10-20% of bar sales. remember just because a bar makes 10k, doesnt mean they make 10k.
reggae delgado 2:04 AM - 22 September, 2011
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remember just because a bar makes 10k, doesnt mean they make 10k.


especially if I'm working!!!
DJBIGWIZ 2:14 AM - 22 September, 2011
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if there is a lot of money made at a club you should get money. if your bar rings under 2k, i wouldnt expect much, unless you bring 80%+ of the crowd, then you should get 10-20% of bar sales. remember just because a bar makes 10k, doesnt mean they make 10k.

so if a club/bar makes 10k on a night you are spinning, you'd be cool with making $100?
Really... who is cool with 1%
DJ Da Kid 4:00 AM - 22 September, 2011
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I do men for anything over a 100

Wrong forum...

Your not funny nigga
DJ Remy USA 11:44 AM - 22 September, 2011
i agree with WIZ I'm no full time DJ but I still don't like spinning for anything under 200$. Really 200$ is selling my self short but I regularly turn down gigs for promoters who are like I you pay 125$ to spin for 4 hours. I just nicely decline and everyone else should too. Raise the bar we are not breaking these guys pockets if they pay 500$ for a really good DJ. The biggest that will increase your value is your following. If you can pack the house without the promoter your basically doing there job. I feel we as DJs should cut them out of the equations.

I get pissed when I'm playing out, the club is packed and the line is around the corner and the promoter has the nerve to tell me oh I'm sorry we didn't make that much here is 75$ - 150$ makes me wanna smack the shit out him/her but humbly pack my gear and I never work for them again.
DJGeorgeT 12:29 PM - 22 September, 2011
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I get pissed when I'm playing out, the club is packed and the line is around the corner and the promoter has the nerve to tell me oh I'm sorry we didn't make that much here is 75$ - 150$ makes me wanna smack the shit out him/her but humbly pack my gear and I never work for them again.


I am confused. Did you not agree with the promoter on a fixed amount? If he promised $200 and he is giving you $75 or $150, then he is not paying you and is robbing you.

Ask to get paid before you start. No pay, no play. If they don't like it, they can call a different dj.
DJ Da Kid 2:41 PM - 22 September, 2011
Would you guys agree that a good way to get your name out there and start doing club gigs is to offer to do them for free or insanely cheap?

Thats how I started out.
djmarvel 4:35 PM - 22 September, 2011
You must appear valuable to a club owner, if you come across as just another dj who brings no extra income in to his club then you should expect to get undercut. Quite frankly this is a business just like any other and most djs don't look at themsevles as a product, which you should.

Ive never been one to promote, or sell vip tables or any of that, its just not my steez however I've never had a problem making money as a dj once I learned how to handle myself more as a business man.
djmarvel 4:40 PM - 22 September, 2011
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Would you guys agree that a good way to get your name out there and start doing club gigs is to offer to do them for free or insanely cheap?

Thats how I started out.



no that is fucked up! would you go to any other 9-5 job and work for free?

all you djs that do this fuck it up for those who make a career out of djing, its no different then me going to att or wherever and telling your boss I will do your job for free or 10k a yr less!
DJ Da Kid 6:56 PM - 22 September, 2011
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no that is fucked up! would you go to any other 9-5 job and work for free?

all you djs that do this fuck it up for those who make a career out of djing, its no different then me going to att or wherever and telling your boss I will do your job for free or 10k a yr less!


Djing is fun to me...so yeah...when I wanted to get my name out I offered to do gigs for cheap or even free at first.

There were usually large club events too, opening up and such...so It really helped me get my name out for paying events and such.
DJBIGWIZ 7:22 PM - 22 September, 2011
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no that is fucked up! would you go to any other 9-5 job and work for free?

all you djs that do this fuck it up for those who make a career out of djing, its no different then me going to att or wherever and telling your boss I will do your job for free or 10k a yr less!


Djing is fun to me...so yeah...when I wanted to get my name out I offered to do gigs for cheap or even free at first.

There were usually large club events too, opening up and such...so It really helped me get my name out for paying events and such.

It also helps bring the level of pay down over all. So now the pay gigs you are getting are not as much as you could be getting because of this lazy need to have everything instantly w/ o paying any dues at all attitude. If you have a "real" job that you rely on to make a living (that is if you are not in fact a "kid" as your DJ name and attitude towards getting paid suggests) how would you feel about if if someone went to your boss and said they liked doing your job and thought it would be fun and was willing to work for free and you no longer had a job? If fact, if you do have a job, go tell your boss that you are willing to work for free or for drinks and he no longer needs to pay you.... Otherwise you can't say you see nothing wrong with this practice.
Logisticalstyles 7:31 PM - 22 September, 2011
I work in IT and I love computers and anything technology related, but I would NEVER come up here to work for free or for less than what I make now. In fact I think I'm underpaid as it is, but I still love what I do. Ans like others have said I would be pissed if someone came in and offered to do my job for less or for free. In this economy that is probable cause for a beat down.
DJBIGWIZ 7:37 PM - 22 September, 2011
FOH w/ all that ass backwards economics. The cost of living steadily goes up and dudes like you steadily devalue what it is to be a DJ and drive our average pay down.
If it don't make dollars, it don't make sense.
If it's not worth anything to you and all it is is fun then stay home and have fun and let us do our job.
People with this attitude are just like parasites... slowly eating away at the culture and ability to make a living from this until it will no longer be an option for the ones who really care about it and respect it for more than just being fun. Then when the ones who are really good... the ones who make it look so cool and make everyone think its so cool and fun have to quit doing it... There will only be average and sub par dj's left and it will no longer be so cool then you will all quit because it won't be as "cool" to call yourself a dj and you'll need some other trick to try and be popular.
DJBIGWIZ 7:37 PM - 22 September, 2011
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I work in IT and I love computers and anything technology related, but I would NEVER come up here to work for free or for less than what I make now. In fact I think I'm underpaid as it is, but I still love what I do. Ans like others have said I would be pissed if someone came in and offered to do my job for less or for free. In this economy that is probable cause for a beat down.

There it is!
DJ Da Kid 7:38 PM - 22 September, 2011
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It also helps bring the level of pay down over all. So now the pay gigs you are getting are not as much as you could be getting because of this lazy need to have everything instantly w/ o paying any dues at all attitude. If you have a "real" job that you rely on to make a living (that is if you are not in fact a "kid" as your DJ name and attitude towards getting paid suggests) how would you feel about if if someone went to your boss and said they liked doing your job and thought it would be fun and was willing to work for free and you no longer had a job? If fact, if you do have a job, go tell your boss that you are willing to work for free or for drinks and he no longer needs to pay you.... Otherwise you can't say you see nothing wrong with this practice.


I am a college student....

And the whole job/boss thing I understand exactly what your saying but if someone really wanted to work for free and take my job, I couldn't get mad at them or the boss for taking that offer up.
DJ Da Kid 7:40 PM - 22 September, 2011
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it is is fun then stay home and have fun and let us do our job.
People with this attitude are just like parasites... slowly eating away at the culture and ability to make a living from this until it will no longer be an option for the ones who really care about it and respect it for more than just being fun. Then when the ones who are really good... the ones who


I'm not gonna stay home, I'm too good for that lol
ZESH! 7:50 PM - 22 September, 2011
Bunch of fukkin crybabies.
I say undercut all you want. Hell...DJ fo free if you like.
It's the way everybody else started!

Clubs/Bars don't pay much at all. UJnless you're a celebrity. (S)he doesn't care how great you're skills are. As long as the crowd stays and drinks.

The airplanes you fly in, cars you drive, food you buy in the supermarket are all manufactured/assembled by someone who won the contract
(psssst...in case you didn't know, the lowest bidder)
DJBIGWIZ 7:52 PM - 22 September, 2011
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I am a college student....

And the whole job/boss thing I understand exactly what your saying but if someone really wanted to work for free and take my job, I couldn't get mad at them or the boss for taking that offer up.

There it is... you've never had to really work for anything... Mom and/or Dad have been taking care of you so money and what you have to offer have no value to you. You view will change soon young man. When you get out there in the job force tell your employer you will work for free until you start to get better jobs. See how well that pays the bills and takes care of your family.

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I'm not gonna stay home, I'm too good for that lol

you obviously don't really feel that way since you place no value on yourself or what you bring to the table(s) ;) You must feel like as a dj that you are worthless. You are placing no worth on what you do... since you are not out in the real world yet, here's some advice. If you act worthless, people will look at and treat you as such. Respect yourself and what you have to offer or you will not be truly respected. If you let people know it's ok to take advantage of you, they will!
If you are really good and really love doing it then show some belief in yourself and stop acting like you are not worth anything. Even if you think it's just fun and you don't care about the money... that's just not a good mental, business or philosophical practice you should get used to.
DJBIGWIZ 8:01 PM - 22 September, 2011
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\

The airplanes you fly in, cars you drive, food you buy in the supermarket are all manufactured/assembled by someone who won the contract
(psssst...in case you didn't know, the lowest bidder)

True, but the lowest bid was still in the ballpark of what one should be paid in those jobs.
I guarantee it wasn't on the same percent as me being able to get 1k for a gig and you offering to do it for free or even $100 c'mon man think about what you are saying here... that is a weak argument.
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Bunch of fukkin crybabies.

I think the crybabies are those who don't want to put in the work so they undercut to get on.
Stop crying so much that you cant get work if you don't want to put in the work.
If you have to result to baby moves like that then this aint for you. Man up, practice up and get ya stock up.
DJBIGWIZ 8:04 PM - 22 September, 2011
if it's not worth doing right then it's not worth doing.
If you place no worth on it then it's worthless to you so don't worry that you can't get on the right way.
Go do something else that you feel is worth your time.
dj_soo 8:31 PM - 22 September, 2011
I think there's just as much onus on the clubs and bars and promoters as there is on the n00b undercutters.

taking that analogy, if someone cam to your business and offered to do skilled labour at 1/10th the going rate - most businesses would realize that someone charging such a low fee couldn't possibly provide a quality product or service.

Yet somehow bars and clubs are all too eager to accept an unskilled, unproven dj just so they can save a couple hundred dollars a week...
DJBIGWIZ 9:05 PM - 22 September, 2011
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I think there's just as much onus on the clubs and bars and promoters as there is on the n00b undercutters.

taking that analogy, if someone cam to your business and offered to do skilled labour at 1/10th the going rate - most businesses would realize that someone charging such a low fee couldn't possibly provide a quality product or service.

Yet somehow bars and clubs are all too eager to accept an unskilled, unproven dj just so they can save a couple hundred dollars a week...
DJ Da Kid 9:06 PM - 22 September, 2011
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There it is... you've never had to really work for anything... Mom and/or Dad have been taking care of you so money and what you have to offer have no value to you. You view will change soon young man. When you get out there in the job force tell your employer you will work for free until you start to get better jobs. See how well that pays the bills and takes care of your family.

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I'm not gonna stay home, I'm too good for that lol

you obviously don't really feel that way since you place no value on yourself or what you bring to the table(s) ;) You must feel like as a dj that you are worthless. You are placing no worth on what you do... since you are not out in the real world yet, here's some advice. If you act worthless, people will look at and treat you as such. Respect yourself and what you have to offer or you will not be truly respected. If you let people know it's ok to take advantage of you, they will!
If you are really good and really love doing it then show some belief in yourself and stop acting like you are not worth anything. Even if you think it's just fun and you don't care about the money... that's just not a good mental, business or philosophical practice you should get used to.


You must understand that I only did free gigs in the beginning to put my name out there.

No point in me charging money to DJ before I had ever djed publicly.

I basically made a bet saying if I did good in my first gig then I would begin to get paying gigs, and that's exactly what happened.
DJBIGWIZ 9:11 PM - 22 September, 2011
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I
taking that analogy, if someone cam to your business and offered to do skilled labour at 1/10th the going rate - most businesses would realize that someone charging such a low fee couldn't possibly provide a quality product or service.

ooops, sry for the blank quote.
If they were ok with not getting quality work then yes, they would. But again, do you think when someone says DJing is not that hard that they mean DJing on a level that's not quality?
ANYTHING IS EASY IF YOU DON"T CARE ABOUT QUALITY OR BEING GOOD!
DJBIGWIZ 9:13 PM - 22 September, 2011
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I
Yet somehow bars and clubs are all too eager to accept an unskilled, unproven dj just so they can save a couple hundred dollars a week...

and the only reason that is is because of dj's who treat themselves and what they have as worthless which steadily drives down the average of what a DJ can make. You really don't see the cause and effect here and how it is not good for the BUSINESS of djing? Again.... I'm gonna just go ahead and give you credit for being smarter than that.
djpuma_gemini 9:14 PM - 22 September, 2011
Yeah you don't go dj for free, you find local dj's who will let you open up for them and up to them if they'll pay you. That way you get used to it and you're not undercutting.

I've had friends let me spin with them back in the day and some paid some didn't, but it was experience for me and i didn't screw someone by going to the club owner and say, "hey, I'll dj for free."

It's just wrong.
DJBIGWIZ 9:50 PM - 22 September, 2011
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Yeah you don't go dj for free, you find local dj's who will let you open up for them and up to them if they'll pay you. That way you get used to it and you're not undercutting.

I've had friends let me spin with them back in the day and some paid some didn't, but it was experience for me and i didn't screw someone by going to the club owner and say, "hey, I'll dj for free."

It's just wrong.

+100
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if someone cam to your business and offered to do skilled labour at 1/10th the going rate - most businesses would realize that someone charging such a low fee couldn't possibly provide a quality product or service.

right... and if I were promoting a night where I knew people would accept low standards because that what they were used to since undercutting has taught them to expect low quality and made that the norm, I would let you work for free and I'd keep all the money you should have and could gotten. Then when I had a budget to do a big event where I cared about quality where all involved could get paid big bucks, I wouldn't call you because I
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would realize that someone charging such a low fee couldn't possibly provide a quality product or service.

Do you get it? You are not only hurting the game in general but you are hurting yourself as well.
People should hold themselves in higher regard and not dance around perpetuating their reputation to being a joke by doing anything for and being controlled by a dollar.

If you want to invest in something for free, try self respect. And before you start saying you do... remember talk is cheap... like the value you have been placing on yourself.
Actions speak louder than words.
You can't be taken seriously when you say you are worth something when in the same breath you put no value or worth on yourself.
dj_soo 10:26 PM - 22 September, 2011
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right... and if I were promoting a night where I knew people would accept low standards because that what they were used to since undercutting has taught them to expect low quality and made that the norm, I would let you work for free and I'd keep all the money you should have and could gotten


and this is exactly the problem with DJing right now - why i wish it were possible to start an actual union.
DJBIGWIZ 10:33 PM - 22 September, 2011
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right... and if I were promoting a night where I knew people would accept low standards because that what they were used to since undercutting has taught them to expect low quality and made that the norm, I would let you work for free and I'd keep all the money you should have and could gotten


and this is exactly the problem with DJing right now - why i wish it were possible to start an actual union.

Bro, the problem is not promoters being willing to accept this.... The problem is in wannabe DJs charging this. The promoter can't accept an offer that's not being offered which geos to my point all along.... The PROBLEM is in DJs undercutting. NOW, do you get it. If you are willing to let me get away with treating you bad, the problem is YOU. If you wouldn't accept it, I couldn't do it
dj_soo 10:34 PM - 22 September, 2011
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I
taking that analogy, if someone cam to your business and offered to do skilled labour at 1/10th the going rate - most businesses would realize that someone charging such a low fee couldn't possibly provide a quality product or service.

ooops, sry for the blank quote.
If they were ok with not getting quality work then yes, they would. But again, do you think when someone says DJing is not that hard that they mean DJing on a level that's not quality?
ANYTHING IS EASY IF YOU DON"T CARE ABOUT QUALITY OR BEING GOOD!


stop making assumptions here - just because I honestly believe that the TECHNICAL aspects of DJing isn't as difficult as other musical instruments, doesn't mean I don't work my ass off improving myself to get to the level I want to be at.
ZESH! 10:38 PM - 22 September, 2011
DJs are a dime a dozen because of this new tech. So much easier/cheaper to get music, etc.
Let's be real fellas...All a Club DJ has to do is show up with his tables. BIG WHOOP! In some cases, whatever they have in their back-pack. Doesn't cost much at all. OMG PLEASE leave your skills in one of the pockets since that's where this arguement is going.

You haven't invested much at all.

Now if you're a Mobile DJ, You've invested some serious cash into looking and sounding good. That's where your REAL business comes in. You should be able to get at least a gig every one or two parties you perform. If not, you need to improve. a $100 DJ is NOT GOING TO TAKE a gig from you if someone was impressed at an earlier function.

Unless you're a celeb DJ (radio personality for example), you're name means shit to the owners and the people attending the bar/club.

What you guys might be more upset at is the UNDERCUTTER is actually doing a good enough job to stay at the place you targetted.
dj_soo 10:40 PM - 22 September, 2011
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Bro, the problem is not promoters being willing to accept this.... The problem is in wannabe DJs charging this. The promoter can't accept an offer that's not being offered which geos to my point all along.... The PROBLEM is in DJs undercutting. NOW, do you get it. If you are willing to let me get away with treating you bad, the problem is YOU. If you wouldn't accept it, I couldn't do it


oh i agree with you - that's why I don't undercut.

That said, we're in a terrible time where people just don't care anymore which is a sad fact - technology has basically killed it via accessibility because just because you or I aren't willing to play for peanuts doesn't mean there isn't a lineup of kids willing to play like shit for $50 and a drink tab begging to take the gigs you don't want to do.

This is why I'm personally upping my production game these days and tour more than I did - it's the only for me to truly dj what I want the way I want it and command a respectable fee...
DJBIGWIZ 10:41 PM - 22 September, 2011
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right... and if I were promoting a night where I knew people would accept low standards because that what they were used to since undercutting has taught them to expect low quality and made that the norm, I would let you work for free and I'd keep all the money you should have and could gotten


and this is exactly the problem with DJing right now - why i wish it were possible to start an actual union.


Feeling like the promoter or club owners acceptance of your offer is what's wrong with this picture is a very backwards, take no responsibility for your own actions way of thinking.
dj_soo 10:45 PM - 22 September, 2011
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right... and if I were promoting a night where I knew people would accept low standards because that what they were used to since undercutting has taught them to expect low quality and made that the norm, I would let you work for free and I'd keep all the money you should have and could gotten


and this is exactly the problem with DJing right now - why i wish it were possible to start an actual union.


Feeling like the promoter or club owners acceptance of your offer is what's wrong with this picture is a very backwards, take no responsibility for your own actions way of thinking.


jesus man, I'm not saying that's the only problem - I'm saying that's it's all related - undercutters, promoters, clubs, etc. IT'S ALL PART OF THE PROBLEM.

And I don't understand why you're being so argumentative - I'm actually AGREEING with you - I just think the scene is just right fucked right now thanks to a COMBINATION of things INCLUDING undercutting djs, promoters, clubs, etc.
dj_soo 10:47 PM - 22 September, 2011
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I think there's just as much onus on the clubs and bars and promoters as there is on the n00b undercutters.


what part of this statement made you think I'm ONLY blaming promters
DJBIGWIZ 11:17 PM - 22 September, 2011
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I think there's just as much onus on the clubs and bars and promoters as there is on the n00b undercutters.


what part of this statement made you think I'm ONLY blaming promters

honestly I just read
"I think there's just as much onus on the clubs"
and didn't even stop to figure out that part of it. haha I just addressed the rest of it.
But I'll give you that (to a point.. which would have not given me as much need to go on as I did. My bad on that)

BUT to say there's just as much on us as there is the ones who are creating this problem is a bit much. With that said... the solution and trying to change it IS on us (and I'm pretty sure that's what you meant) and it would be good to have some kind of union and cats have said that for years and in some instances have tried to do it in their area or in radio etc... but it will never work because of the
F*** him, I'm getting paid so I'm not willing to take a stand a lose a little bit of money in the short term so we can all get paid more in the long term even if it means I can get more then as well. mentality. It COULD work but too many blind no spine having cats who's mentality towards it is almost as bad as the undercutters would never support it. There is too much of that crab in a barrel attitude for that to ever become a reality.
DJBIGWIZ 11:22 PM - 22 September, 2011
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DJs are a dime a dozen bla bla bla bla....


ok, so if djs are a dime a dozen then each dj is 1/12 of 10 cents which is:

0.00833333333 of 10 U.S. cents >which is

0.0833333333 of 1 U.S. dollar >which is

0.833333333 of 10 U.S. dollars >which is

8.33333333 of 100 U.S. dollars >which is

83.3333333 of 1000 U.S. dollars >which is

833.333333 of 10,000 U.S. dollars >which is

$833.33 per 10k >which means that


If using the scenario we were using earlier of a club/bar making 10k a night and the dj working for free or for $100-$200 would mean that your math is WAAAAYYYY off and by your own ridiculous statement is worth and should be charging and getting a hell of a lot more!

And if you think djs are worth more than a dime a dozen then they should really be getting over.
ZESH! 11:31 PM - 22 September, 2011
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DJs are a dime a dozen bla bla bla bla....
ok, so if djs are a dime a dozen then each dj is 1/12 of 10 cents which is:

0.00833333333 of 10 U.S. cents >which is

0.0833333333 of 1 U.S. dollar >which is

0.833333333 of 10 U.S. dollars >which is

8.33333333 of 100 U.S. dollars >which is

83.3333333 of 1000 U.S. dollars >which is

833.333333 of 10,000 U.S. dollars >which is

$833.33 per 10k >which means that


If using the scenario we were using earlier of a club/bar making 10k a night and the dj working for free or for $100-$200 would mean that your math is WAAAAYYYY off and by your own ridiculous statement is worth and should be charging and getting a hell of a lot more!

And if you think djs are worth more than a dime a dozen then they should really be getting over.

WoW...you have too much time on your hands...You should break down the rest of my post instead of taking something like "a dime a dozen" so literal.

There is NOTHING WRONG with charging less than the next guy to get a gig...simple.

Part of doing business.
dj_soo 11:36 PM - 22 September, 2011
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It COULD work but too many blind no spine having cats who's mentality towards it is almost as bad as the undercutters would never support it. There is too much of that crab in a barrel attitude for that to ever become a reality.


I think that people are too much of a me-first mentality right now which is probably why the world is going to such shit - everyone only cares for them and theirs that they don't realize that working together, everyone could potentially reap benefits...

The sad part is this sort of situation is happening in more industries than just DJing - I mean look at all the outsourced jobs to 3rd world countries these days - it's the exact thing where the ones with the money are all too willing to sacrifice quality of a cheaper bottom line - the result? everyone gets the shaft, other than the head honchoes reaping the benefits...
DJBIGWIZ 11:40 PM - 22 September, 2011
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WoW...you have too much time on your hands...

That's because I charge and get paid what I'm worth so can find some free time here and there.
You should try it. it's nice.

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There is NOTHING WRONG with charging less than the next guy to get a gig...simple.

Part of doing business.

There's EVERYTHING WRONG with that and I'm sorry buy getting paid much less than what you are worth and in a lot of cases... not getting paid at all and driving down the pay rate in your field is NOT a part of BUSINESS! Do you even understand the meaning of a BUSINESS?
*ha, that;'s a stupid question... it's obvious you don't
DJBIGWIZ 11:45 PM - 22 September, 2011
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It COULD work but too many blind no spine having cats who's mentality towards it is almost as bad as the undercutters would never support it. There is too much of that crab in a barrel attitude for that to ever become a reality.


I think that people are too much of a me-first mentality right now which is probably why the world is going to such shit - everyone only cares for them and theirs that they don't realize that working together, everyone could potentially reap benefits...

The sad part is this sort of situation is happening in more industries than just DJing - I mean look at all the outsourced jobs to 3rd world countries these days - it's the exact thing where the ones with the money are all too willing to sacrifice quality of a cheaper bottom line - the result? everyone gets the shaft, other than the head honchoes reaping the benefits...

Yup, it's not just DJing, it's the general global mentality and it's a damn shame.
But hey, I'm the only one who has no choice other than to deal with me. I have to be able to look at myself in the mirror so I gotta do what's right for me and part of that is having more respect for myself than to shuck and jive for a dollar being waved under my nose.
DJBIGWIZ 11:59 PM - 22 September, 2011
Quote:

WoW...you have too much time on your hands...


hahaha... perfect example of a undercutter mentality.

You posted your dime a dozen comment at 10:38
I responded to it at 11:22… (not even an hr later burring which time I have been doing other things besides posting..I have more than one computer and can multitask)

plus, I didn't even start to think about your comment until after I posted my comment preceding it at 11:17 which gave me all of 5 mins to reply to your comment and you feel like that's too much free time… hahaha just like a undercutter… will do anything to get on RIGHT NOW!!! now time to pay dues and go about it the right way. Waiting 5 mins is a LOOOONG TIME... not to mention the better part of only 1 hour.
INSTANT MICROWAVE CULTURE ACTIVATE!
ZESH! 12:07 AM - 23 September, 2011
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Quote:
WoW...you have too much time on your hands...
hahaha... perfect example of a undercutter mentality.

You posted your dime a dozen comment at 10:38
I responded to it at 11:22… (not even an hr later burring which time I have been doing other things besides posting..I have more than one computer and can multitask)

plus, I didn't even start to think about your comment until after I posted my comment preceding it at 11:17 which gave me all of 5 mins to reply to your comment and you feel like that's too much free time… hahaha just like a undercutter… will do anything to get on RIGHT NOW!!! now time to pay dues and go about it the right way. Waiting 5 mins is a LOOOONG TIME... not to mention the better part of only 1 hour.
INSTANT MICROWAVE CULTURE ACTIVATE!


Oh
















My



















GOD!
dj_JM 12:26 AM - 23 September, 2011
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right... and if I were promoting a night where I knew people would accept low standards because that what they were used to since undercutting has taught them to expect low quality and made that the norm, I would let you work for free and I'd keep all the money you should have and could gotten


and this is exactly the problem with DJing right now - why i wish it were possible to start an actual union.


What makes the union concept difficult to implement is that the union would have to protect djs from other djs. And not necessarily protect our interests from club owners and promoters.
dj_soo 12:31 AM - 23 September, 2011
collective bargaining!

$500/night minimum charge + $100/night per 100 capacity over 200.

5% wage increase over 5 years.

Health and dental benefits.

minimum 6-month contract per venue

quality control - djs must pass a test/written exam to prove they aren't wack or they get booted from unions and playing (sorry, pauly d)
DJBIGWIZ 1:10 AM - 23 September, 2011
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Quote:

and this is exactly the problem with DJing right now - why i wish it were possible to start an actual union.


What makes the union concept difficult to implement is that the union would have to protect djs from other djs. And not necessarily protect our interests from club owners and promoters.

Not really. The problem is getting the "haves" to take a stand for and unite with the "have nots".
The DJ's who ARE really good and great and have some kind of power be it through a big following, actual skills that a crowd responds to and will support, radio DJ's who are are responsible for breaking records to the public, big name DJ's who travel the world and get thousands for shows (which makes the promoter a lot of money) to take a stand with the lesser paid DJ and say they will not support clubs, venues, promoters, labels etc... that support undercutting.
If a promoter or big club that makes thousands of dollars booking big names gets told by all the big names that they will no longer support them if they book undercutters, they would stop. If you as a promoter are paying DJ's 20k and that's not including what else you have to spend money on for that event do you think they are walking with $100 bucks in their pocket.? They are making MONEY. The same crowd that generates enough dough to pay for that is not gonna spend that money on some no name around the corner dj who will work for free which means the promoter aint making shit. Now multiply that scenario to labels that have big money and connects that need their record played and publishing houses that need the income from clubs having to pay rights so those songs can be played and the "guest" artists that the club pays to come be seen in their club who want their songs played so they can get the money to do that etc..... we could make an impact.
But...it also takes the dj who is only making a few dollars to stand his ground as well. THAT is will never happen because like Soo and myself have stated, people have too much of a me-first mentality. The guy getting 10k is not gonna stand up for you and you are not gonna sit back when he steps away from that 10k gig to help you and not try to jump in there and do it for $500 and THAT'S why it will never happen. The control of a dollar and not enough ethics, morals and/or belief in your own hustle to create or find that dollar somewhere else on YOUR OWN terms. (providing your own terms don't mean selling yourself short and taking a loss)

With that, my "too much time on my hands" time is up... I have to go meet up with some other folks who demand and get paid what they are worth doing what they do on their own terms.
O.B.1 1:21 AM - 23 September, 2011
It all sounds good in theory, but the reality is we must go above and beyond the other guy to prove our worth and get paid what we command.
- A few of my regular spots that I play twice a month or so, they also have the laptop only VDJ guys who come play for 1/4 of what I charge. But when the owners and crowd notice the difference in the overall performance, and more importantly look at their numbers for the night, I still get asked to come back and even get bonuses on great nights... I've learned if you present yourself as a professional, you will be treated as such - as long as you can back it up - whether it be with skills, equipment, clout, or a combination thereof... that being said, it still pisses me off with these $100 guys who make a mockery of what some of us have worked so hard toward!
DJ Remy USA 12:40 AM - 24 September, 2011
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I get pissed when I'm playing out, the club is packed and the line is around the corner and the promoter has the nerve to tell me oh I'm sorry we didn't make that much here is 75$ - 150$ makes me wanna smack the shit out him/her but humbly pack my gear and I never work for them again.


I am confused. Did you not agree with the promoter on a fixed amount? If he promised $200 and he is giving you $75 or $150, then he is not paying you and is robbing you.

Ask to get paid before you start. No pay, no play. If they don't like it, they can call a different dj.


Im just speaking on past personal experience. You know people do some shady thing but it I will never business with that person again thats how I see
DouggyFresh 12:54 AM - 24 September, 2011
Soooo you mean to tell me in the years before digital DJing there weren't guys who would bring out a book of copied CDs and DJ for $50 / bartab? Or even worse, free?

I know its easier now, I see it here every day, DJs copying each others hard drives.

Seems to me this isn't a "new" problem.
djvtyme85 1:59 AM - 24 September, 2011
so im at a sports bar & they had a dj come in at the location...he came out with some 1200s & some mackie's nothing major. i send my girl out to do some research she finds out he got the gig because he used to work there. apparently he is doing all that work for peanuts. my brain behinds to work...i got to another location near me that is on my work route & i talk with the manager about doing the same thing at his location. he likes my idea, we end up having a meeting...he is ready to go...and i pull out my contract..he looks at me like im crazy he says "well i figured we'd comp u on drinks and meal. give you chance to promote yourself" bahahahaha

i explain to him i provide a service, been doing this for 14 yrs, etc blah blah blah...anyway my price was only $500 for 3 hours of me & my jbl eon 10s. in my opinion that was still peanuts when the average waiter is making no less than $300 in tips on the nights i wanted to play. I'm bringing my own gear, setting up and tearing down, basically its a mobile gig...and of course I let him know in due time if his sales increase we will have to re work everything.

exactly two weeks later he had the same guy from the other location in there. guess i made more business for him...lol long story short the manager is paying him in free drinks for him and his buddies...the guy is cool with that...whatever...but shit is wrong and fucked up because in all actuality he took a paying gig from a real dj
DJ SPAIR 2:00 AM - 24 September, 2011
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Soooo you mean to tell me in the years before digital DJing there weren't guys who would bring out a book of copied CDs and DJ for $50 / bartab? Or even worse, free?

I know its easier now, I see it here every day, DJs copying each others hard drives.

Seems to me this isn't a "new" problem.


Dude, CD is digital,and back then if you mixed on CD's late 80's to 2000. You weren't dj'n any big clubs because all of them had Turntables. CD Djs were wedding jocks NOT club djs.
djvtyme85 2:02 AM - 24 September, 2011
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Quote:
Soooo you mean to tell me in the years before digital DJing there weren't guys who would bring out a book of copied CDs and DJ for $50 / bartab? Or even worse, free?

I know its easier now, I see it here every day, DJs copying each others hard drives.

Seems to me this isn't a "new" problem.


Dude, CD is digital,and back then if you mixed on CD's late 80's to 2000. You weren't dj'n any big clubs because all of them had Turntables. CD Djs were wedding jocks NOT club djs.


true shit
Mr. Goodkat 2:48 AM - 24 September, 2011
if i was under 25 and could afford it, i would undercut everyone to get out there. that being said, i havent been under 25 in a number of years.
ZESH! 7:12 PM - 24 September, 2011
Quote:
so im at a sports bar & they had a dj come in at the location...he came out with some 1200s & some mackie's nothing major. i send my girl out to do some research she finds out he got the gig because he used to work there. apparently he is doing all that work for peanuts. my brain behinds to work...i got to another location near me that is on my work route & i talk with the manager about doing the same thing at his location. he likes my idea, we end up having a meeting...he is ready to go...and i pull out my contract..he looks at me like im crazy he says "well i figured we'd comp u on drinks and meal. give you chance to promote yourself" bahahahaha

i explain to him i provide a service, been doing this for 14 yrs, etc blah blah blah...anyway my price was only $500 for 3 hours of me & my jbl eon 10s. in my opinion that was still peanuts when the average waiter is making no less than $300 in tips on the nights i wanted to play. I'm bringing my own gear, setting up and tearing down, basically its a mobile gig...and of course I let him know in due time if his sales increase we will have to re work everything.

exactly two weeks later he had the same guy from the other location in there. guess i made more business for him...lol long story short the manager is paying him in free drinks for him and his buddies...the guy is cool with that...whatever...but shit is wrong and fucked up because in all actuality he took a paying gig from a real dj

I would've looked at you crooked too.
500 for 3 hours at a place that can be covered by 2 10" speakers. You gotta be kidding me!

I'm in no way saying you're not worth it, but c'mon!! A Sports Bar isn't going to pay that much.
Can't even blame the undercutter...You made it TOO EASY for him.
djpuma_gemini 9:27 PM - 24 September, 2011
yeah sports bar gigs you're lucky if you can pull $250 or $300 for 4 hours.

I wouldn't have paid $500 for 3 hours either.
djvtyme85 4:26 AM - 26 September, 2011
I feel yall but ive gotten for less work on my part.
DJ Da Kid 3:47 AM - 27 September, 2011
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if i was under 25 and could afford it, i would undercut everyone to get out there. that being said, i havent been under 25 in a number of years.


'Exactly what I did.
DJYoshi 2:01 PM - 27 September, 2011
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DJs are a dime a dozen because of this new tech. So much easier/cheaper to get music, etc.
Let's be real fellas...All a Club DJ has to do is show up with his tables. BIG WHOOP! In some cases, whatever they have in their back-pack. Doesn't cost much at all. OMG PLEASE leave your skills in one of the pockets since that's where this arguement is going.

You haven't invested much at all.


FALSE. If you haven't invested much..you're not trying to grow.. Let's break down my typical monthly cost that it takes for me to operate at the level that I do & it will only increase as we take on more projects

Monthly Expenses
1000 Promotional CD's: $450
Artwork: $275
Business Meetings & Dinner: $500
Gas & Tolls - $640
Office Phone - $35
Cell Phone - $130
Legal Retainer: $200
Internet Services: $180
PR Campaign: Fashion - $750
PR Campaign: Media - $750
Management & Agency Fees - 20% of my monthly

That's a total of $3460 that I have to spend on an avg month to keep my business running.
That doesn't include a month where I have to buy sh** or replace computers or recording equipment in the lab.... doesn't include months where there's huge events that require 2 - 3000 promo cd's...like fashion week... that doesn't include months when I get booked for something that requires equipment and I have to use a sound company.....
that doesn't include office expenses with water..electric etc...

So tell me how as DJ's we don't spend $.... don't just count the night that you're playing at the club as your only expense/work day...treat it as a damn business and it'll open your eyes to shit you've never seen before.


YES I had to get a start somehow..but it wasn't by undercutting... I negotiated deals with promoters... pay me x amount and I'll guarantee 50 people to come out... so they pay the $.
When we signed the deal with the Nets, my market value went up to x amount...and we stayed at that amount until after the Nets deal... BUT I did NOT lower it to a level that I didn't feel was right.
The game is fucked up and over-saturation with DJ's is evident...DJ's hate on each other... WHY? why even do it? the game has enough room (even with crowded undercutters) for us all to make $ and be happy.
And if you're not maintaining a level that the mgmt companies or venues think that you deserve Y amount....then show them why you deserve x + y....
reinvent how you present & promote yourself.

and no... getting paid $500 for 3 hours is NOT ridiculous.

what's ridiculous is a DJ asking for $50 for the night...that my friends is ridiculous.
DJBIGWIZ 8:14 PM - 27 September, 2011
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So tell me how as DJ's we don't spend $....

They can't because they are not REAL DJ's they are guys who just play music and don't realize there is a difference. It's like someone making a sandwich or a bowl of cereal and thinking there is no difference in that and being a chef. Both produce something to eat so they can't see any difference.


Quote:

...don't just count the night that you're playing at the club as your only expense/work day...

It is for them. Again, they are NOT real DJ's that's why they don't get it. These are the guys who either don't even own any equipment in some cases or have the bare minimum cheapest stuff possible or already have a laptop for other stuff and get some cracked software and grab a bunch of free music and think they are DJ's. Or daddy is rich so they can have all the fancy gear they want so they can look good while they play make believe.
Playing music does not make you a DJ... a jukebox is a jukebox, not a DJ.
Owning equipment does not make you a DJ... you can own a hammer and not be a carpenter.


Quote:

treat it as a damn business and it'll open your eyes to shit you've never seen before.


They have no idea about BUSINESS. Like when one of the guys said earlier that undercutting is good business... if someone thinks that drastically lowering the market value for certain good or service that your own company provides is even BUSINESS let alone GOOD business, they have NO F'n clue what business is. If there is a base rate of $500 for a certain product and you start a company to sell that product and you sell it for $50 or worse... give it away for free... that is kind of the complete opposite of a business.... businesses are in place to make a profit. If you do that, oit makes the other companies have to lower their price to under $50 to compete so now they get $30 and you have to drop to $20 then they drop to $15... you to $10.. them $5.... you ..... FREE.
So you took the value of a product from $500 to $50 overnight and to think that this is either good OR business is moronic. My niece and nephew have a better understanding of money and business than that (REAL TALK) and my nephew still has to ride in a car seat.... his sister is only a couple of yrs older. You don't even have the business savvy of a child.

Yoshi, it is pointless trying to tell the blind man to see.
They will never get it... if you were talking to rational people who have the capacity to understand this, it wouldn't even be a conversation.
We will continue to do what we do and be successful and profitable and the leaches and wannabes can stay at the bottom of the barrel thinking they are doing something and undercut each other 'till they find they next fads bandwagon to jump on.
Wannabe promoters and club owners will hire wannabe djs until they fail.
Promoters and Clubs that are serious about their business will keep hiring real DJ's and we will keep making real money.
Let 'em keep droppin' the soap for promoters if that's what they are in to.
They're not worth it man.... that's why I let it go.
Dj Wunder 8:23 AM - 28 September, 2011
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...It's like someone making a sandwich or a bowl of cereal and thinking there is no difference in that and being a chef. Both produce something to eat so they can't see any difference.


hee hee "Dj Boyardee".
ZESH! 10:50 AM - 28 September, 2011
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Quote:
DJs are a dime a dozen because of this new tech. So much easier/cheaper to get music, etc.
Let's be real fellas...All a Club DJ has to do is show up with his tables. BIG WHOOP! In some cases, whatever they have in their back-pack. Doesn't cost much at all. OMG PLEASE leave your skills in one of the pockets since that's where this arguement is going.

You haven't invested much at all.


FALSE. If you haven't invested much..you're not trying to grow.. Let's break down my typical monthly cost that it takes for me to operate at the level that I do & it will only increase as we take on more projects

Monthly Expenses
1000 Promotional CD's: $450
Artwork: $275
Business Meetings & Dinner: $500
Gas & Tolls - $640
Office Phone - $35
Cell Phone - $130
Legal Retainer: $200
Internet Services: $180
PR Campaign: Fashion - $750
PR Campaign: Media - $750
Management & Agency Fees - 20% of my monthly

That's a total of $3460 that I have to spend on an avg month to keep my business running.
That doesn't include a month where I have to buy sh** or replace computers or recording equipment in the lab.... doesn't include months where there's huge events that require 2 - 3000 promo cd's...like fashion week... that doesn't include months when I get booked for something that requires equipment and I have to use a sound company.....
that doesn't include office expenses with water..electric etc...

So tell me how as DJ's we don't spend $.... don't just count the night that you're playing at the club as your only expense/work day...treat it as a damn business and it'll open your eyes to shit you've never seen before.


YES I had to get a start somehow..but it wasn't by undercutting... I negotiated deals with promoters... pay me x amount and I'll guarantee 50 people to come out... so they pay the $.
When we signed the deal with the Nets, my market value went up to x amount...and we stayed at that amount until after the Nets deal... BUT I did NOT lower it to a level that I didn't feel was right.
The game is fucked up and over-saturation with DJ's is evident...DJ's hate on each other... WHY? why even do it? the game has enough room (even with crowded undercutters) for us all to make $ and be happy.
And if you're not maintaining a level that the mgmt companies or venues think that you deserve Y amount....then show them why you deserve x + y....
reinvent how you present & promote yourself.

and no... getting paid $500 for 3 hours is NOT ridiculous.

what's ridiculous is a DJ asking for $50 for the night...that my friends is ridiculous.

Yoshi...Your well thought out arguement, as accurate as it might be, is NOT the type of DJ who is doing the undercutting.
You're in it for ALOT more and for much bigger events than the kid with a controller in his backpack who wants to cut into a local bar and make a name for himself. If you're targetting the same type of business with all that overhead, then you're in the wrong business.
If I had the same expenses as you did, same services, guarantees, etc., and offered it for a considerable amount less than you, with equivalent skills and popularity, I would most likely get the contract...(simple isn't it)

Let the 100 dollar DJ do his thing, beat the guy that wants to do it for 500. BIG DEAL. For the most part they're young, up and coming DJs who want their shot. In the end The BUSINESS men/women are the ones who pull themselves out of this pool and go on to bigger and better things, leaving the rest behind.

A good business man doesn't make a real DJ
A real DJ doesn't make a good business man
But if you are BOTH then that equals success.

Can I get an AMEN!!?!

I'm sure SOMEBODYYY HERRRE will think of SOMETHING to say about my post.

Here's your walking stick.
Crickett 4:27 PM - 28 September, 2011
Quote:


I'm sure SOMEBODYYY HERRRE will think of SOMETHING to say about my post.

Here's your walking stick.



Hey now.... I use one of those fancy wheel chair thingies to get around..
K_Satoru 5:25 PM - 28 September, 2011
Interesting read here.

I would consider myself a young up and coming DJ in my town, I have connections with "popular" names in my town / UK.

On a skill level, I bought my first set of Turntables when I was 16 and been bedroom DJ'ing ever since, just because I loved to do it. Found Serato 3 years ago and since been trying to push myself into the city club game.

My opinion of this is: all you guys who have been in this game for 5-10+ years were in the game at it's peak. I mean people had money to spend, so crowds were going out, clubs/promoters were making money. But right now, it just isn't like that anymore.

I'm pushing myself to try to get resident spots. And I gotta tell you, that ain't easy. And, because I went into getting club gigs on my own, with no contacts or nothing, you dunno where to set your benchmark for pay. £50-$100 (about $100-150) seems like the right amount.
Dj K.Smith 5:50 PM - 28 September, 2011
The thing about undercutting is that those individuals whoa re thinking about saving $$$ on the front end don't usually think about the end of the event and where that extra $$$ could have helped in making the event that much better. I usually dj weddings and run into this all the time. I have my few clients I run into that think I charge too much. I hve clients that value my experience and feel assured that what they invision happening that day will betaken care of by a professional.

Example from a recent event: couple hires a dj for a SWEET 16.. Kids man, kids... Now I wasn't considered for this job but a friend of mine who owns the facility where the event was held told me that the dj was playing explicit music all night to KIDS... Very poor taste IMO. One incident required the parents to break up a group of kids "lap-dancing" because the dj had played a string of sexually motivating songs. Now, making along post short, an experienced dj would think twice about playing music like that versus a dj that saved you $300-$400... That's just one risk people run (in my business) when the undercutting dj is considered...
dj_soo 12:05 AM - 29 September, 2011
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a friend of mine who owns the facility where the event was held told me that the dj was playing explicit music all night to KIDS...


stuff like that bothers the shit out of me.

fucking amateurs...
Dj K.Smith 1:17 AM - 29 September, 2011
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Quote:
a friend of mine who owns the facility where the event was held told me that the dj was playing explicit music all night to KIDS...


stuff like that bothers the shit out of me.

fucking amateurs...


Exactly... People let price fool them into thinking that they'll get the same quality...
djvtyme85 1:48 AM - 29 September, 2011
Unless its a adult night club the number rule is only play clean verses for the public
Sureshot (PA) 2:09 AM - 29 September, 2011
there are alot of lazy DJs complaining about "undercutting". do your work. promote your gigs. build a fanbase. do that right and you won't be expendable.

"undercutting" is a bullshit term lazy DJs made up to reframe the reason that they were fired for underperformance.
djsyn 3:27 AM - 29 September, 2011
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Unless its a adult night club the number rule is only play clean verses for the public

do you mean strip club? cuz whenever i play an edited version of a song at the bar i play at i get that stink face look.
djvtyme85 11:24 PM - 1 October, 2011
yep i meant strip club
DJ'Que 3:07 AM - 2 October, 2011
Quote:
Yeah you don't go dj for free, you find local dj's who will let you open up for them and up to them if they'll pay you. That way you get used to it and you're not undercutting.

I've had friends let me spin with them back in the day and some paid some didn't, but it was experience for me and i didn't screw someone by going to the club owner and say, "hey, I'll dj for free."

It's just wrong.
this is how I got my break. never undercut no one. I played all the new stuff that the other dj didnt. and in turn that landed me so many gigs cuz most were like dam he never played that or was like dam that flow was banging. I remember djing @ shark club in downtown la for damu cuz he caught a flat and I was banging the A-V8's and crooklin clans and master P Make em Say Um and had the club going nuts. and when Damu got there he was like god dam Que. I cant get on after what your doing. so we came up with the 20 minute workout of all Booty music like luke , 69 boys, tag team etc and it was a wrap. but to me these new DJ's are just there to look important. I have see dj's jump from behind the dj booth and run into the crowd and start jerking (in la) Im like WTF. the record goes off and they are trying to get back to the tables. thy have no flow or blend's they just play the next song like a fucking ipod .