DJing Discussion

This area is for discussion about DJing in general. Please remember the community rules when posting and try to be polite and inclusive.

RANE doesnt like Serato

DJ Stoyvo 10:15 PM - 15 August, 2011
... and here is proof:

Watchwww.youtube.com

It works with every DVS except Serato SSL! Woot!
Rebelguy 10:19 PM - 15 August, 2011
I think it's mainly because Scratchlive needs a dedicated audio interface. This video is showing you how to set up the other programs with the internal sound card in those mixers.
DJ Stoyvo 10:26 PM - 15 August, 2011
Quote:
I think it's mainly because Scratchlive needs a dedicated audio interface. This video is showing you how to set up the other programs with the internal sound card in those mixers.


Would it not be sik to support SSL tho?

And if it's not, how come they dont mention FXs or MIDI for serato?
Rane, Support
Chad S. 10:46 PM - 15 August, 2011
LOL, don't get it twisted homie. There is plenty of love to go around.

The MP25 and MP26 works wonderfully with Scratch Live and Video Sl. The only difference is you would still need a Scratch Live interface. This is unlike the TTM57 or Sixty Eight but similar to the TTM56 in this regards.
The Return of Dj Sparky 10:54 PM - 15 August, 2011
if there is any love loss it seems to be on the serato side, why not make your midi controllers with rane instead of with pioneer ect...

If we don't see a new 2 channel mixer aka the 58 or what next one will be called at next namm or before, or they do a mixer collab with pioneer I think its safe to say the relationship will be over
DJ Stoyvo 10:54 PM - 15 August, 2011
I just find it funny that it wasnt mentioned at all :P
Anu 11:18 PM - 15 August, 2011
MP26 does multitrack recording post fader....!

Can the SixtyEight do that..?

This MP26 Would be awesome as a 12inch mixer....


nm...
dj_soo 12:35 AM - 16 August, 2011
Quote:
MP26 does multitrack recording post fader....!

Can the SixtyEight do that..?

This MP26 Would be awesome as a 12inch mixer....


nm...


you can do multitrack recording on the 57 with a utility so I'm assuming you could do it in the 68 as well...
Rebelguy 4:54 PM - 16 August, 2011
Quote:
if there is any love loss it seems to be on the serato side, why not make your midi controllers with rane instead of with pioneer ect...

If we don't see a new 2 channel mixer aka the 58 or what next one will be called at next namm or before, or they do a mixer collab with pioneer I think its safe to say the relationship will be over


Does Rane have the R&D money to put together a midi controller such as the one Pioneer put out? Would they sell enough to make that money back? Before 20 guys jump up saying I would buy one you need to think, you would need to sell thousands of units to recoup those expenses.

Pioneer did not really have to put much effort in the DDJ-S1. They have done most of the R&D for that unit by utilizing parts from other projects. Plus the Pioneer name is like Gold. Everyone is buying it. Add to the fact that the Pioneer DJ division is just a small part of the way bigger Pioneer machine that has tons of money to throw out on marketing and promotion. Does Pioneer give out tons of product to promote? Hell yes. Can Rane afford to do the same? Who knows.

We all want Rane to do this or that but it all comes down to dollars and cents. If it don't make dollars...it don't make sense.
Dj-M.Bezzle 5:02 PM - 16 August, 2011
Quote:
Does Rane have the R&D money to put together a midi controller such as the one Pioneer put out? Would they sell enough to make that money back? Before 20 guys jump up saying I would buy one you need to think, you would need to sell thousands of units to recoup those expenses.

We all want Rane to do this or that but it all comes down to dollars and cents. If it don't make dollars...it don't make sense.


Your forgetting one VERY IMPORTANT THING, itch was created because SL is liscensed to RANE so if RANE made a controller it would run SCRATCHLIVE and not itch, now how many people do you think would buy a RANE controller that ran scratchlive?
DJJorel 5:05 PM - 16 August, 2011
Quote:

Does Rane have the R&D money to put together a midi controller such as the one Pioneer put out? Would they sell enough to make that money back? Before 20 guys jump up saying I would buy one you need to think, you would need to sell thousands of units to recoup those expenses.

Pioneer did not really have to put much effort in the DDJ-S1. They have done most of the R&D for that unit by utilizing parts from other projects. Plus the Pioneer name is like Gold. Everyone is buying it. Add to the fact that the Pioneer DJ division is just a small part of the way bigger Pioneer machine that has tons of money to throw out on marketing and promotion. Does Pioneer give out tons of product to promote? Hell yes. Can Rane afford to do the same? Who knows.

We all want Rane to do this or that but it all comes down to dollars and cents. If it don't make dollars...it don't make sense.


Rane's R&D Department is quite robust...but the company is certainly not that big...well, compared to Pioneer at least.

But here's the advantage...not only will a person pick up the phone when you call, but direct lines to their engineers and support are listed on the website...

Call Pioneer support and I doubt that they will be anywhere near as accessible as Rane...

BTW...Serato is a essentially a software development company, and they are even smaller...
Dj-M.Bezzle 7:47 PM - 16 August, 2011
Quote:
Quote:
Does Rane have the R&D money to put together a midi controller such as the one Pioneer put out? Would they sell enough to make that money back? Before 20 guys jump up saying I would buy one you need to think, you would need to sell thousands of units to recoup those expenses.

Pioneer did not really have to put much effort in the DDJ-S1. They have done most of the R&D for that unit by utilizing parts from other projects. Plus the Pioneer name is like Gold. Everyone is buying it. Add to the fact that the Pioneer DJ division is just a small part of the way bigger Pioneer machine that has tons of money to throw out on marketing and promotion. Does Pioneer give out tons of product to promote? Hell yes. Can Rane afford to do the same? Who knows.

We all want Rane to do this or that but it all comes down to dollars and cents. If it don't make dollars...it don't make sense.


Rane's R&D Department is quite robust...but the company is certainly not that big...well, compared to Pioneer at least.
...


www.wtv-zone.com
Rebelguy 1:38 AM - 17 August, 2011
Quote:


Your forgetting one VERY IMPORTANT THING, itch was created because SL is liscensed to RANE so if RANE made a controller it would run SCRATCHLIVE and not itch, now how many people do you think would buy a RANE controller that ran scratchlive?


I am not sure. Given the amount of anti controller and anti sync statements made on the Scratchlive boards maybe not as many as you think. Realistically what would be the point for Rane to make a controller. The latest update to Itch shows that the two programs are basically becoming the same. I believe it Rane would have jumped on the controller thing two years ago then it would have been a huge success but since there is so much competition out now on the itch side it might be tougher.

I have said it before and I will say it again. Itch is the future of Serato. There is more money in it for them from licensing and more companies manufacturing products for it. The Rane/Scratchlive exclusivity is like Apple and AT&T. In the end it is just holding Serato back...hence the need for Itch.
Rebelguy 1:43 AM - 17 August, 2011
Quote:


Rane's R&D Department is quite robust...but the company is certainly not that big...well, compared to Pioneer at least.

But here's the advantage...not only will a person pick up the phone when you call, but direct lines to their engineers and support are listed on the website...

Call Pioneer support and I doubt that they will be anywhere near as accessible as Rane...

BTW...Serato is a essentially a software development company, and they are even smaller...


i am not sure what either of these statements have to do with my comment. Yes Rane has excellent support, so does Denon, but Pioneer still kicks their butts in sales of DJ equipment. Pioneer has a decent forum for problem solving...its just not as open to other topics.

And yes Serato is a smaller software company but that is something that may be harming them now as they have multiple software releases, OS platforms, and controllers to support.
pdidy 2:06 AM - 17 August, 2011
Quote:
Quote:
Does Rane have the R&D money to put together a midi controller such as the one Pioneer put out? Would they sell enough to make that money back? Before 20 guys jump up saying I would buy one you need to think, you would need to sell thousands of units to recoup those expenses.

We all want Rane to do this or that but it all comes down to dollars and cents. If it don't make dollars...it don't make sense.


Your forgetting one VERY IMPORTANT THING, itch was created because SL is liscensed to RANE so if RANE made a controller it would run SCRATCH LIVE and not itch, now how many people do you think would buy a RANE controller that ran scratchlive?

Me and many other SCRATCH LIVE users who see SCRATCH LIVE as the superior software and some who refuse to use itch.
DJJorel 3:49 AM - 17 August, 2011
Quote:
Quote:
Rane's R&D Department is quite robust...but the company is certainly not that big...well, compared to Pioneer at least.

But here's the advantage...not only will a person pick up the phone when you call, but direct lines to their engineers and support are listed on the website...

Call Pioneer support and I doubt that they will be anywhere near as accessible as Rane...

BTW...Serato is a essentially a software development company, and they are even smaller...


i am not sure what either of these statements have to do with my comment. Yes Rane has excellent support, so does Denon, but Pioneer still kicks their butts in sales of DJ equipment. Pioneer has a decent forum for problem solving...its just not as open to other topics.

And yes Serato is a smaller software company but that is something that may be harming them now as they have multiple software releases, OS platforms, and controllers to support.


They kick their ass in sales due to a bigger marketing budget and a bigger R&D budget, They know that DJs like lights and buttons...and they take advantage of it...

Rane is just a smaller company with not as much money to throw around...but I still like their company more than Pioneer, even though I own some Pioneer products as well...
Dj-M.Bezzle 1:27 PM - 17 August, 2011
Quote:
Quote:
Your forgetting one VERY IMPORTANT THING, itch was created because SL is liscensed to RANE so if RANE made a controller it would run SCRATCHLIVE and not itch, now how many people do you think would buy a RANE controller that ran scratchlive?


I am not sure. Given the amount of anti controller and anti sync statements made on the Scratchlive boards maybe not as many as you think. Realistically what would be the point for Rane to make a controller. The latest update to Itch shows that the two programs are basically becoming the same. I believe it Rane would have jumped on the controller thing two years ago then it would have been a huge success but since there is so much competition out now on the itch side it might be tougher.

I have said it before and I will say it again. Itch is the future of Serato. There is more money in it for them from licensing and more companies manufacturing products for it. The Rane/Scratchlive exclusivity is like Apple and AT&T. In the end it is just holding Serato back...hence the need for Itch.


Sure that all makes sence but theres other factors to look at, for example this


Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Does Rane have the R&D money to put together a midi controller such as the one Pioneer put out? Would they sell enough to make that money back? Before 20 guys jump up saying I would buy one you need to think, you would need to sell thousands of units to recoup those expenses.

We all want Rane to do this or that but it all comes down to dollars and cents. If it don't make dollars...it don't make sense.


Your forgetting one VERY IMPORTANT THING, itch was created because SL is liscensed to RANE so if RANE made a controller it would run SCRATCH LIVE and not itch, now how many people do you think would buy a RANE controller that ran scratchlive?

Me and many other SCRATCH LIVE users who see SCRATCH LIVE as the superior software and some who refuse to use itch.


The controller market is particularly focused on making VERY wasy to use (everyone get on the wagon) cheap as possible and portable. They have the rep as toys for club jocs who are used to big price bug feature functionality. That portion of the market, the portion that dosent mind paying big numbers for the perfect solid piece of gear; which rane has already proven they will be happy to cater to, is untapped in the controller world, so rane would have it on LOCK because they could make a SOLID piece of gear for excuse me here "real djs", not something aimed at the mobile and microwave demographincs and it would have the Scratch Live (not itch) seal of authenticity, basically they have the ability to invent teleportation while the other companys are focused on reinventing the bike wheel
nik39 2:23 PM - 17 August, 2011
Quote:
Does Rane have the R&D money to put together a midi controller such as the one Pioneer put out? Would they sell enough to make that money back? Before 20 guys jump up saying I would buy one you need to think, you would need to sell thousands of units to recoup those expenses.

Pioneer did not really have to put much effort in the DDJ-S1. They have done most of the R&D for that unit by utilizing parts from other projects. Plus the Pioneer name is like Gold. Everyone is buying it. Add to the fact that the Pioneer DJ division is just a small part of the way bigger Pioneer machine that has tons of money to throw out on marketing and promotion. Does Pioneer give out tons of product to promote? Hell yes. Can Rane afford to do the same? Who knows.

We all want Rane to do this or that but it all comes down to dollars and cents. If it don't make dollars...it don't make sense.

Word.

And I agree with everything else you said in this thread, Rebelguy.
Laz219 2:41 PM - 17 August, 2011
I don't really have much of an idea of the scale of Rane as a company (Australia is end of the earth effectively...Pioneer is far and beyond the most popular brand, I'm sure a lot of people would have never heard of Rane besides the badging on their SSL interfaces)
Main thing to me though, Rane still feels like the most accesible company to get support from. Through these forums or the usual support channels- I've never seen another company that feels so accessible to get help from. They've managed to skip all the usual bullshit that comes with getting assistance through a company.

(obviously this is an outsider opinion, sure it isn't anywhere near this simple)
Seems like there is a lot of potential of exclusivity for Rane to really do a top end MIDI controller with Serato because of the long term collaboration between the two.
Daktyl 5:07 PM - 17 August, 2011
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Does Rane have the R&D money to put together a midi controller such as the one Pioneer put out? Would they sell enough to make that money back? Before 20 guys jump up saying I would buy one you need to think, you would need to sell thousands of units to recoup those expenses.

We all want Rane to do this or that but it all comes down to dollars and cents. If it don't make dollars...it don't make sense.


Your forgetting one VERY IMPORTANT THING, itch was created because SL is liscensed to RANE so if RANE made a controller it would run SCRATCH LIVE and not itch, now how many people do you think would buy a RANE controller that ran scratchlive?

Me and many other SCRATCH LIVE users who see SCRATCH LIVE as the superior software and some who refuse to use itch.

I think if rane made a quality controller for scratch live, not itch, a LOT of people would buy it. look at how many ssl users have things like an x1 (NI product), dicers, and the denon hc1000s....
I have an x1 and it does the job, but none of those really fit perfectly. that's why some people use an x1 in combination with the dicers, because every midi controller that people currently use for ssl by itself is some kind of compromise on functionality. The hole in the market is definitely there for it. if Rane made a quality controller with 1 to 1 (button/knob to ssl software controls) functionality for scratch live, I would buy it. I have a 57, but it's dated. to use it for cue points, and looping, and effects, and.... is cumbersome. plus that deck focus switch button for cue point mode sucks. I don't know how many times I've restarted the playing song because that stupid button stuck. so many times that I went back to using my computer keyboard to hit cue points exclusively. (57 rant over...)
but a cdj style controller with built in mixer (a la ns6) for cdj users would sell, as would the 57sl concept updated... a mixer with a built in soundcard and software controls, but where you don't have one set of buttons and knobs controlling a bunch of different things. and maybe a removable soundcard section for those situations where bringing your own mixer isn't an option....
skratchworx 5:39 PM - 17 August, 2011
Perhaps because I don't use Scratch Live and ITCH as much as other people here, I just don't see this apparent wall between them. And now that ITCH 2 is out, the wall is pretty much broken down, leaving them visually very close, and functionally becoming very similar.

So given that their closeness now, and most likely will become indistinguishable in the future, why would you insist on Scratch Live over ITCH to drive a controller?
Daktyl 5:55 PM - 17 August, 2011
Quote:
Perhaps because I don't use Scratch Live and ITCH as much as other people here, I just don't see this apparent wall between them. And now that ITCH 2 is out, the wall is pretty much broken down, leaving them visually very close, and functionally becoming very similar.

So given that their closeness now, and most likely will become indistinguishable in the future, why would you insist on Scratch Live over ITCH to drive a controller?

strictly controller dj's probably already use itch anyway. there's no benefit really in using ssl in internal mode with a controller over itch... it's turntable dj's (and cdj's also) that use scratch live. You can't use turntables with itch, you can with scratch live (it's what the program was designed for). so it's not so much insisting on using scratch live to drive a controller, but more using a controller to complement your turntables...
Rane
TrevorW 7:27 PM - 17 August, 2011


Factory visits are supposed to be confidential...But next time you stop by bring some fresh bananas!
Rebelguy 7:34 PM - 17 August, 2011
Quote:
Quote:
You can't use turntables with itch, you can with scratch live (it's what the program was designed for). so it's not so much insisting on using scratch live to drive a controller, but more using a controller to complement your turntables...


I am a little lost here. Your other post stated they should release a controller like the NS6 which doesn't make any sense because there already is the NS6 which works with Itch which is basically now Scratchlive.

You are also asking for a controller to compliment your turntables. Realistically couldn't you just use a Denon MC6000 (with the platter control hack) or an NS6 (if someone comes out with a platter hack) with an SL-2/3/4 then? If you are asking for a mixer with 1 to 1 mapping for all Scratchlive functions then you are getting close to a Sixty Eight which they already have out.

We can all dream for Rane turntables, controllers and other fantasy products but they are probably never going to happen.

What will happen? An updated 57 and possibly a 3 channel version of the 57.
Rebelguy 7:35 PM - 17 August, 2011
quote fail on my part.
DJ Stoyvo 7:36 PM - 17 August, 2011
I apologize for this......
skinnyguy 7:55 PM - 17 August, 2011
So what if Rane made a universal midi controller....but designed for the ScratchLive user in mind? or even made it so that it included ScratchLive if the user wanted to use it for that? Would that sell more?
Rane, Support
Chad S. 7:57 PM - 17 August, 2011
How much would you guys be willing to pay for one? And be serious with your dollars :)
CMOS 8:11 PM - 17 August, 2011
Quote:
How much would you guys be willing to pay for one? And be serious with your dollars :)



Tree Fitty - Fii Hunned.
Rebelguy 8:12 PM - 17 August, 2011
Quote:
How much would you guys be willing to pay for one? And be serious with your dollars :)


For just a midi controller? $500-$700 if it was done right and made with the usual Rane build quality. I would also toss in an extra $50 if you DO NOT USE the cue buttons like on the Sixty Eight...haha.

Here is a controller with which should be able to handle all of Scratchlive's mappings.

www.skratchworx.com
Rebelguy 8:13 PM - 17 August, 2011
Too bad it's made for Traktor.
DJ Stoyvo 8:18 PM - 17 August, 2011
+1 on the midi controller. Easier for mobile gigs
The Return of Dj Sparky 8:24 PM - 17 August, 2011
well Chad depends if were gonna get a piece of junk or something decent,

give us the motorised platters from the denon 3700,
maganitic faders from the 57,
no built in sound card so we can use are current sl box's, (cuts cost for you and us)
cue's and loops could be handled by building the dicers into the unit,
nice little layout for the sp6 and effects on the mixer part,
and possibly have it in 3 parts, 2 decks and mixer, so if I want i can use my tt's with just the mixer,

and price it below the pioneer alternatives and you could be on to something,
I expect a free one of these if it is what you end up going with
Eric N 8:31 PM - 17 August, 2011
Yeah, price definitely depends on functionality!

In my dream world... (this would be worth $1000 or more to me, depending on what it had in it)

-it would be something like an NS6 or a Denon MC-6000 in layout
-it would either have a removable SL box or not have one included
-motorized platters (like NS7/3700) would be super bitchen
-modular setup where the decks can be removed if you want to use TTs or CDJs instead, or left in place for portability or to use 3/4 deck functionality
-dicer-style cue point triggers

but really, I think the *better* answer would be to open up timecode in ITCH. If we still had to use an SL box to "unlock" timecode functionality, it wouldn't be going against the Rane/Serato partnership - it wouldn't really be much different in that respect than anything else on the market. For example, if you had an NS6 AND an SL box, you should get 4 deck functionality in an ITCH platform, with 2 timecodes and 2 controller platters. If you had a VCI-300, you would still only have 2 decks, but you could bypass the jog wheels and use TTs instead.

PLUS, everyone could use video that way. WIN WIN.
The Return of Dj Sparky 8:37 PM - 17 August, 2011
not haveing the sl sound card included would cut out having much to do with serato, they didn't seem to care going to another manufacturer so beat them at there own game with a far superior product,

just make sure they support your HID from the platter, and posibbly a 10" platter, stand out from the smaller ones and more appealing to vinyl heads,


we seem to be on the same page Eric
dj pesh 8:48 PM - 17 August, 2011
Quote:
How much would you guys be willing to pay for one? And be serious with your dollars :)


£400-£700
Eric N 9:08 PM - 17 August, 2011
Quote:


we seem to be on the same page Eric


I want a solution that lets me still use my turntables and mix video... but that WILL work without the decks in a pinch or for practice situations. Something with more buttons than my 57 too lol.
The Return of Dj Sparky 9:12 PM - 17 August, 2011
to be honest I wouldnt be mad on some decks either,

a midi mixer without serato built in I what I really want myself, and they could make the midi decks optional with motorised platters
Rane, Support
Chad S. 9:50 PM - 17 August, 2011
Quote:
well Chad depends if were gonna get a piece of junk or something decent,


I would hope you guys know and trust that Rane wouldn't do anything half ass, toyish or something basic just to get into the already overcrowded controller market.

I'm totally out on a limb here, this is meerly my own personal curiosity but I'm curious what people would expect to pay.

There are many $500 units out there, others are even more expensive. My personal feeling (and I repeat "my personal" opinion) is that if Rane ever entered the game, the unit would be top notch but the price would also reflect that.

Just as a random number (a number that also sits around the other high end controllers) would you pay $1,000 or what about $1,500? Or is it you would like a basic unit that can be slapped together for under $700?
Rane, Support
Chad S. 9:52 PM - 17 August, 2011
Quote:

Just as a random number (a number that also sits around the other high end controllers) would you pay $1,000 or what about $1,500? Or is it you would like a basic unit that can be slapped together for under $700?



lol, I guess that wouldn't really make it a random number.....

+1 to quoting and dissing yourself ;p
DJ Dub Cowboy 10:03 PM - 17 August, 2011
how about a modular native controller.


I want a SP-6 controller that is complete for all the functions in the SP-6
I want a DJ-FX controller that is complete for all the functions in the FX section
Video controller...Etc

not everybody uses the same plug-ins so if we could have a modular system where the components attach together (with built in USB hub) then we could each customize but only a couple devices need to be designed.

think faderfox... how they group together. Get the ones you need.

I think the form factor of the HC1000 is a good place to start. That is a perfect deck controller, imagine attaching a sampler unit to that and an FX unit. Now you have something close to the size of a Trigger finger.

or attach side by side and have something the shape of an NS7FX unit that spans across your decks
DJ Dub Cowboy 10:04 PM - 17 August, 2011
on a manufacturing level. you can have the same chassis for all of them
The Return of Dj Sparky 10:08 PM - 17 August, 2011
if you open most midi only controllers you notice there isnt much to them, you can buy a unit called "the brain" or other cheaper alternatives (which is just a pcb with a midi chip and usb port in a nutshell) and connect a ridiculous amount of faders, buttons and potentiometers, to customise your unit,

so if rane did make a midi controller with no audio processing and was only midi how could you justify such a high price?

if you throw in some audio processing into it you can then justify such a high price.
dj_soo 10:13 PM - 17 August, 2011
it would have to have *some* sort of audio component in it since scratchlive does not have any sort of internal mixer in the program. Given that a Rane 56 starts at around $800 brand new, adding in all the midi functionality would easily put the device over $1000, audio card or otherwise...
Eric N 10:19 PM - 17 August, 2011
That's only if it does include a mixer section...

I'm kind of liking Dub Cowboy's idea though!
DJ Dub Cowboy 10:27 PM - 17 August, 2011
If Rane could lock down some more Midi Out functionality from Scratch Live they could have some exclusive feedback on their devices.

things like:

SP-6:
Sample Cell Name
Digital Pitch display
mode lights

DJ-FX:
effect name display
LEDs around the encoders for levels of each parameter

General:
RGB LEDs that respond to cue point color
The Return of Dj Sparky 10:28 PM - 17 August, 2011
what I really want, screw controllers, lets be honest I wouldn't buy one, I have tt's and i'm happy with them, and i'm sure you guys are happy with your current control method

a midi mixer like the pioneer djm t1 without ssl, I bought an sl3 and dont want it to be obsolete with a new mixer with one built in, (most users have a sl box so why screw them over by adding it to the mixer and raising the price), and use soft buttons like the dicers I heard the 68's buttons are a bitch

i don't want a 57 because if you spin at places with installed mixers and there is where my sl3 comes in,

rane you guys are due to release something, those rack mixers you just released in my opinion wouldn't appeal to the users of the serato product so give the people what they want, or just give me what I want, a new midi mixer
thebuttonfreak 10:29 PM - 17 August, 2011
Glad you finally came around to my way of thinking.

Quote:
The controller market is particularly focused on making VERY wasy to use (everyone get on the wagon) cheap as possible and portable. They have the rep as toys for club jocs who are used to big price bug feature functionality. That portion of the market, the portion that dosent mind paying big numbers for the perfect solid piece of gear; which rane has already proven they will be happy to cater to, is untapped in the controller world, so rane would have it on LOCK because they could make a SOLID piece of gear for excuse me here "real djs", not something aimed at the mobile and microwave demographincs and it would have the Scratch Live (not itch) seal of authenticity, basically they have the ability to invent teleportation while the other companys are focused on reinventing the bike wheel
thebuttonfreak 10:32 PM - 17 August, 2011
For an integrated rane mixer/controller using serato scratch? You could get me for as much a $2000 as long as it had a min of 3deck control with pitch sliders.

Quote:
I would hope you guys know and trust that Rane wouldn't do anything half ass, toyish or something basic just to get into the already overcrowded controller market.

I'm totally out on a limb here, this is meerly my own personal curiosity but I'm curious what people would expect to pay.

There are many $500 units out there, others are even more expensive. My personal feeling (and I repeat "my personal" opinion) is that if Rane ever entered the game, the unit would be top notch but the price would also reflect that.

Just as a random number (a number that also sits around the other high end controllers) would you pay $1,000 or what about $1,500? Or is it you would like a basic unit that can be slapped together for under $700?
Rebelguy 11:42 PM - 17 August, 2011
Quote:
Glad you finally came around to my way of thinking.

Quote:
The controller market is particularly focused on making VERY wasy to use (everyone get on the wagon) cheap as possible and portable. They have the rep as toys for club jocs who are used to big price bug feature functionality. That portion of the market, the portion that dosent mind paying big numbers for the perfect solid piece of gear; which rane has already proven they will be happy to cater to, is untapped in the controller world, so rane would have it on LOCK because they could make a SOLID piece of gear for excuse me here "real djs", not something aimed at the mobile and microwave demographincs and it would have the Scratch Live (not itch) seal of authenticity, basically they have the ability to invent teleportation while the other companys are focused on reinventing the bike wheel


There are already quite a few high end midi controllers out there. This is nothing new. Look at the ohm64 as an example. That thing is a beast and is made in the USA as well. Good stuff.
skinnyguy 1:03 AM - 18 August, 2011
i paid around 1200 - 1300 for my pioneer itch controller. closest thing i could get to scratchlive with a dedicated controller. so yeah, around that price range.

i really wish ssl could be mapped to the s1. itch sucks compared to ssl. but it gets me thru gigs and my back is happier.
DJ Dub Cowboy 2:08 AM - 18 August, 2011
looks like the Flex FX screen got an upgrade from the 68 version. I wonder if that improvement will make it's way back onto the 68

www.rane.com MP26 Screen

www.rane.com 68 Screen
AKIEM 2:30 AM - 18 August, 2011
This is what Rane should make:

i79.photobucket.com
serato.com

well beter tho
just saying
dj_soo 2:50 AM - 18 August, 2011
I think some people want different things - some want rane to make a midi controller to augment scratch live with decks - to that I say: why rane? They have little experience in midi controllers, and probably little interest in making their own version of the HC-1000 or dicers. There's plenty of established midi controller companies in the game that I'd rather see create a dedicated ScratchLive controller than have to sit through the growing pains of Rane learning the ropes of making midi.

For instance, I'd love to see Akai put together a dedicated Scratchlive controller, or I'd like to see Novation come up with something other than the dicers.

The other camp wants Rane to produce an actual stand-alone style controller in the vein of an Itch machine... that I would like to see myself but it will most definitely be pricey and will most definitely be a solid piece of kit - but that doesn't guarentee it'll be problem free - at least on the first iteration...
DJ Dub Cowboy 3:07 AM - 18 August, 2011
I want a Rane Turntable. let's not forget that one.

They could rule the high-end audiophile market with a deck.

Build Scratch Live into a deck and you could use it with any mixer you want.
djdannyd 3:08 AM - 18 August, 2011

are those bass buttons from an accordion?
AKIEM 3:08 AM - 18 August, 2011
Quote:
I want a Rane Turntable. let's not forget that one.

They could rule the high-end audiophile market with a deck.

Build Scratch Live into a deck and you could use it with any mixer you want.
AKIEM 3:09 AM - 18 August, 2011
Quote:

are those bass buttons from an accordion?


really, they dont look exactly like the bottons on my TTM57?
lol cmon man
aireyc 3:18 AM - 18 August, 2011
I want a new mixer, either a direct replacement of the 57 or an empath with sl built in. Obviously with better midi support. I haven't used the 68, but since I hear the cue buttons are atrocious, I would hope for dope cue pads.
dj_soo 3:24 AM - 18 August, 2011
Quote:
Quote:
I want a Rane Turntable. let's not forget that one.

They could rule the high-end audiophile market with a deck.

Build Scratch Live into a deck and you could use it with any mixer you want.


i personally just don't see too much money in a turntable for them. They would have to build up and create a department from scratch to enter what is essentially a dying market? Just doesn't make much business sense especially considering that it's still pretty easy to find used technics on the market. I mean, think about it - they would need r&d, then a production facility and everything that's needed for that... all this from a tiny company?

I would love to see it too, but again, Rane has no experience in designing or building turntables so it doesn't necessarily guarantee a good product and they've never made the slightest hint of being interested in making a turntable.

That said, a midi controller would be another story - they already have experience designing the 57 and 68 (which is essentially a proprietary midi mixer) and like it or not, it's pretty much the future of DJing...

I just think that a lot of you guys seem to think just because Rane makes amazing quality mixers that they are capable of or have any interest in making something like a turntable...
DJ Dub Cowboy 3:44 AM - 18 August, 2011
I totally see your point

however, if they want to ensure a long future for their extensive line of products for turntables then it isn't such a bad investment.

Almost every Rane DJ product is designed to be used with turntables currently. How many thousands of SL interfaces are all over the globe?

+

there are these guys too
www.digitalmusicnews.com

The record is again (and will always be) cherished by audiophiles. Therefore the record player will always be important. Notice no one is asking Rane to make a CDJ.
DJ Dub Cowboy 3:47 AM - 18 August, 2011
They can also thank Technics for doubling the market price for a new turntable in a year. They could put a base model out for around a grand, and supped up midi model for 1500-2000 and DJs will be lining up for them.
dj_soo 3:53 AM - 18 August, 2011
Quote:
however, if they want to ensure a long future for their extensive line of products for turntables then it isn't such a bad investment.


i guess that's where we disagree - pretty sure outside of North America, CDJs tend to rule and even here, the kiddies are flocking to midi controllers for the most part....

1500-2000 a turntable? I just don't see too many DJs that would flock to them let alone the new breed... old schoolers already have decks and would still prefer technics if needed. Clubs are going to be faced with spending 2-3 grand on turntables when most of the new djs will just be bringing controllers. Just doesn't seem like a smart investment...
DJ Dub Cowboy 3:57 AM - 18 August, 2011
if it worked like a CDJ2000 and played vinyl like a Technics, hell yeah clubs would jump on that.

CDJ2K is bad ass!!!!!!

except, it's a CDJ - not interested
Rebelguy 8:30 AM - 18 August, 2011
Quote:
if it worked like a CDJ2000 and played vinyl like a Technics, hell yeah clubs would jump on that.

CDJ2K is bad ass!!!!!!

except, it's a CDJ - not interested


I am going to say no on this one. The club I work at in my area installed one of the top sound systems in Northern CA and they sprung for new CDJ-2000s but the turntable budget was low. They actually ended up pulling a pair from one of their other venues because they thought the current price of Technics was insane.

The new turntable business is a no-win situation. Audiophiles would not flock to a Rane turntable...there are too many other established companies making them. This leaves the DJs and we all know how well they helped Technics stay in business.
DJDeluchi 9:32 AM - 18 August, 2011
Quote:
How much would you guys be willing to pay for one? And be serious with your dollars :)


i pay in pounds mate and i will pay between 800 - 900 which is $1485 via the current exchange rate
spirez 12:56 PM - 18 August, 2011
I like Dub Cowboy's modular idea.

Definitely a proper way to have solid control of the SP6 including pitch, volume, pitch bend, *cough* sync *cough*. And precise control over FX parameters.

But then also something that will be flexible enough to stay current with SSL updates. The Denon was made partially redundant as soon as 2.0 came out with FX.

But then maybe Novation are the people to step up to this challenge as they did a great job with the dicers and Twitch and it's more in keeping with their experience of midi.

I don't personally see the point in a big NS7 type unit. I mean, it doesn't seem as though that many people use them when compared with te traditional SL box route.

They're not that portable either, which sucks for mobile/club use and not many places would let you tear apart their booth for a few hours of spinning.

Basically Rane need to do something BIG that will appeal to the masses and firmly cement SSL as the industry standard across the board. Especially now that Pioneer has jumped on the Traktor bandwagon.
thebuttonfreak 11:20 PM - 18 August, 2011
I would basically want an sl3 integrated with an empath and an ohm64. That's my wet dream. sl3+empath+ohm64=something awesome by rane would be the tits.
DJ Dub Cowboy 11:25 PM - 18 August, 2011
I love the livid gear.

perfect example of high quality midi gear

I'm getting ready to pay 450 for a controller with 32 rotary press encoders (Code) simple because it feels and looks solid.

I bet Rane could make something nice in that price range that is actually meant for DJs.
dj_soo 11:37 PM - 18 August, 2011
Quote:
I bet Rane could make something nice in that price range that is actually meant for DJs.


could they though? They aren't a midi controller company and never have been - the closest thing to midi controllers they've made were the 57 and 68 and both were pretty flawed in their own ways (button misfires on the 57, poor UI design for the control groups, and button design on the 68, etc).

Instead of trying to shoehorn an audio and mixer company into making a midi controller, I'd rather be petitioning an actual midi controller company - preferably one that already has a working relationship with Serato like Novation or to a lesser degree, Denon. Would love to see a working relationship develop between Akai and Serato too as I love Akai controllers and think they could make a great proprietary Serato controller...
thebuttonfreak 11:39 PM - 18 August, 2011
Does the livid stuff light up when used with serato?
Free Man 11:58 PM - 18 August, 2011
Quote:
If Rane could lock down some more Midi Out functionality from Scratch Live they could have some exclusive feedback on their devices.

things like:

SP-6:
Sample Cell Name
Digital Pitch display
mode lights

DJ-FX:
effect name display
LEDs around the encoders for levels of each parameter

General:
RGB LEDs that respond to cue point color


i like the sound of that
DJ Dub Cowboy 12:06 AM - 19 August, 2011
Quote:
Quote:
I bet Rane could make something nice in that price range that is actually meant for DJs.


could they though? They aren't a midi controller company and never have been - the closest thing to midi controllers they've made were the 57 and 68 and both were pretty flawed in their own ways (button misfires on the 57, poor UI design for the control groups, and button design on the 68, etc).

Instead of trying to shoehorn an audio and mixer company into making a midi controller, I'd rather be petitioning an actual midi controller company - preferably one that already has a working relationship with Serato like Novation or to a lesser degree, Denon. Would love to see a working relationship develop between Akai and Serato too as I love Akai controllers and think they could make a great proprietary Serato controller...


yes, Rane could make the killer midi controller

they didn't use to make Scratch mixers either but now they rule that market with an iron fist.

All it takes is getting the right people on the team and they know how to do that.
www.skratchworx.com
Rebelguy 12:36 AM - 19 August, 2011
Quote:
Does the livid stuff light up when used with serato?


I am trying to get this info from Livid now.
DJ Dub Cowboy 1:03 AM - 19 August, 2011
yes, but it does not get feedback from the software. For instance the lights around the encoders on code don't get info from SSL, however they light up.

I have a buddy in my town who works with them on mapping.
Maskrider 1:35 AM - 19 August, 2011
Dub's Idea about an Sp6 and Efx controller is probably what we will see in the near future I hope they include the Video interface to.
DJ Dub Cowboy 1:38 AM - 19 August, 2011
I think now that the SP-6 and DJ-FX have settled a little bit, they are ripe for a specific native controller
DJ Dub Cowboy 1:49 AM - 19 August, 2011
I feel like what really holds me back on using a midi controller with the DJ-FX is a display on the actual controller. I want feedback on each dial, and I want the name of the effect displayed right on the controller.
djvtyme85 2:19 AM - 19 August, 2011
Quote:
how about a modular native controller.


I want a SP-6 controller that is complete for all the functions in the SP-6
I want a DJ-FX controller that is complete for all the functions in the FX section
Video controller...Etc

not everybody uses the same plug-ins so if we could have a modular system where the components attach together (with built in USB hub) then we could each customize but only a couple devices need to be designed.

They should do this and make a way for us to get custom faceplate covers by skinz or something by submitting our personal config diagram or something i dunno just idea forget it

think faderfox... how they group together. Get the ones you need.

I think the form factor of the HC1000 is a good place to start. That is a perfect deck controller, imagine attaching a sampler unit to that and an FX unit. Now you have something close to the size of a Trigger finger.

or attach side by side and have something the shape of an NS7FX unit that spans across your decks
djvtyme85 2:22 AM - 19 August, 2011
/\ THIS!

just make lil screens over top of the settings knobs or buttons so we can see our personal setting and have lit up buttons like a dicer
DJ Dub Cowboy 2:26 AM - 19 August, 2011
Novation ZeroSL, Ohn64RGB, Dicer, the HC1000 need to have a big orgy in Washington
dj_soo 3:00 AM - 19 August, 2011
Quote:
I feel like what really holds me back on using a midi controller with the DJ-FX is a display on the actual controller. I want feedback on each dial, and I want the name of the effect displayed right on the controller.


what about an ipad and touchosc - infinitely customizable...
DJ Dub Cowboy 3:39 AM - 19 August, 2011
no knobs

no faders

I'm all about the tactile experience, hence my persistence to turntables.
ta2423 4:09 AM - 19 August, 2011
I want my 57 toggles on my 68
djvtyme85 5:51 AM - 19 August, 2011
How they do redesign and put the buttons off a mpc but make em the same size as the 68 buttons
Dj Ace 6:26 AM - 19 August, 2011
I would pay 1200 to 1400 easy for a scratch live controller from Rane...or you kidding? 57/68 crossfader and 57 up faders...dedicate controls for video, fx, and sp-6...woooo weeeee....and sound quality and channels like the 68! Also a built in mixer like the ns6. It would sell like hotcakes especially with spinning platter... The problem could it be made for this price point? if so it would dominate the market! think about it?
Dj Ace 6:31 AM - 19 August, 2011
While we are at it...how about an update 57 that lights up similar to the 68 with built in effects...and flexible software routing for effects and with 2 usbs ports! It could also stay with only two channel faders but have maybe two aux in's that allow software routing for like the bridge and sp-6! that would be heaven ;)
Dj Ace 6:32 AM - 19 August, 2011
'Ace immediately runs to go call Mike May and Big Wiz'
DJ Dub Cowboy 9:45 AM - 19 August, 2011
Quote:
While we are at it...how about an update 57 that lights up similar to the 68 with built in effects...and flexible software routing for effects and with 2 usbs ports! It could also stay with only two channel faders but have maybe two aux in's that allow software routing for like the bridge and sp-6! that would be heaven ;)


yes, yeS YES YES!!!!
djvtyme85 12:09 PM - 19 August, 2011
How they do redesign and put the buttons off a mpc but make em the same size as the 68 buttons
Dj Shamann 9:24 PM - 19 August, 2011
Quote:
Just as a random number (a number that also sits around the other high end controllers) would you pay $1,000 or what about $1,500?



Before I read this I already had it in mind that I would expect to pay in the $1000-1500 range.

I understand where Soo is coming from with his questions on Rane actually being able to build one, but as Chad said there's no way Rane would do something half assed.

I've used Rane exclusively for almost 14 years now and just bought a controller, I went Vestax first, didn't like it. Traded in for an NS6, it's cool and all but I don't really like Itch and while the NS6 is fun to mix on, it hasn't really sold me on being "the future" as everyone likes to put it, more like a warm up or an "in case my other shit breaks down".
DJ Dub Cowboy 9:51 PM - 19 August, 2011
see, if controllers are the future......

then Rane WILL make one


it's just a matter of when they want to start collecting money
Dj Ace 2:19 AM - 20 August, 2011
Quote:
see, if controllers are the future......

then Rane WILL make one


it's just a matter of when they want to start collecting money

+100
thebuttonfreak 5:41 PM - 10 November, 2011
I hope rane really does this.
Dj.uno 6:38 AM - 6 December, 2011
i still think serato should just drop the whole dedicated soundcard thing! i mean imagine scratchlive being able to handle all of the controllers that itch and djintro use?? man it scratchlive would be unstoppable! imho. then they would be able to eat off of every platter! but to each their own i guess!
AKIEM 6:44 AM - 6 December, 2011
sounds good
DJ Quartz 6:51 AM - 6 December, 2011
There is one thing I can say about the dedicate 1 to 1 system. I came from a platform that is fairly 'open' in a sense. You still need a specific soundcard for timecode control however.

I got a new laptop and I had to do all kinds of tweaks and use third party apps to make it work properly.

After 8 yrs I switched to SSL and connected my 57SL and it worked out of the box. Same with Itch.

VSL I had a little trouble but video card drivers were to blame.

Even though an open platform is flexible, you will get experience more issues. Remember that.
Dj.uno 7:30 AM - 6 December, 2011
@quartz True! but at the same time u get more flexibility, like Windows and macosx thery're ppl that buy macs but yet bootcamp windows on it! why? cause osx is driven towards Audio and video proffesionals, there as windows can be derived pretty much from any stand point, Especially for GAMERS. im just saying i wouldnt mind having the stability of ssl in itch, and at the same time have the ability to just plug in the same amount of controllers that all other dvs systems can use thats all....im dying tobuy a controller! in particular a ddj-s1 or a ns6, or even the new vci400, but everytime i see a review of itch i always see more problems than success stories. and the vci400 isnt native with rane software! so i guess the hats off! just my .02
mr187 1:08 AM - 7 December, 2011
Quote:
Quote:
How much would you guys be willing to pay for one? And be serious with your dollars :)


For just a midi controller? $500-$700 if it was done right and made with the usual Rane build quality. I would also toss in an extra $50 if you DO NOT USE the cue buttons like on the Sixty Eight...haha.

Here is a controller with which should be able to handle all of Scratchlive's mappings.

www.skratchworx.com


lol we'll need a pilot license to operate that thing properly.
Dj-M.Bezzle 5:35 PM - 9 December, 2011
Quote:
@quartz True! but at the same time u get more flexibility, like Windows and macosx thery're ppl that buy macs but yet bootcamp windows on it! why? cause osx is driven towards Audio and video proffesionals, there as windows can be derived pretty much from any stand point, Especially for GAMERS. im just saying i wouldnt mind having the stability of ssl in itch, and at the same time have the ability to just plug in the same amount of controllers that all other dvs systems can use thats all....im dying tobuy a controller! in particular a ddj-s1 or a ns6, or even the new vci400, but everytime i see a review of itch i always see more problems than success stories. and the vci400 isnt native with rane software! so i guess the hats off! just my .02


You defeated your own point, you want sl stability with itch flexibility,.....its the lack of flexability that keeps sl stable, the more u add and more add ons you make avaliable the less stable it gets
djdannyd 7:10 PM - 9 December, 2011
Quote:
the more u add and more add ons you make avaliable the less stable it gets

i don't know if that would be a correct statement
Dj-M.Bezzle 7:23 PM - 9 December, 2011
Quote:
Quote:
the more u add and more add ons you make avaliable the less stable it gets

i don't know if that would be a correct statement


Then you obviously are not a programmer, hell even outside of software it remains true, the more things u add means more possibilities for error
DJ Stoyvo 8:41 PM - 9 December, 2011
Quote:

You defeated your own point, you want sl stability with itch flexibility,.....its the lack of flexability that keeps sl stable, the more u add and more add ons you make avaliable the less stable it gets


Not true... If this were the case, Ableton wouldn't be one of the top producing tools AND live performance tools.

The stability all comes down to optimization and structure. If the developers stopped half-assing everything, we'd be able to drag and drop decks live on the gui interface instead of hard-coded styles... Oh and simple actions wouldnt crash the program lol
Daktyl 10:49 PM - 9 December, 2011
i've had ableton crash on me more times than ssl... which was like 3 times, but still
serkan 10:51 PM - 9 December, 2011
Quote:

There is one thing I can say about the dedicate 1 to 1 system. I came from a platform that is fairly 'open' in a sense. You still need a specific soundcard for timecode control however.

I got a new laptop and I had to do all kinds of tweaks and use third party apps to make it work properly.

After 8 yrs I switched to SSL and connected my 57SL and it worked out of the box. Same with Itch.

+1

I started with Alcatech DigiScratch 2, then moved to djDecks and now am with Scratch Live & ITCH.
I also got the Traktor Scratch Pro 2 Certified Mixer Upgrade Kit for €159 (it was 50% off last month). It's in it's box again and now I'm waiting for the crappy NI support to respond. I want to send it back and get my money back but they haven't answered for almost 2 weeks new.
Believe me: You might be dissapointed with Serato at any time but if you tried other crap you see how good Serato actually is.