Disclaimer: DJ MBezzle does not claim ownership nor endorses the use or discussion of "The Bezzle Situation". All thoughts and opinions contained in this thread\post are those of forum member Dj Shamann and do not necessarily reflect the thoughts or opinions of DJ MBezzle. All characters appearing in this work are fictitious. Any resemblance to real persons, living or dead, is purely coincidental.

HAHAH Sorry, just keep seeing people say shit like that, somehow it always comes back to you when discussing this sort of thing. You're famous son.

LOL.

If only it were that easy. I bring a flip video to a lot of my gigs. People HATE being video taped.

Frankly from my experience the managers could care less who is making the requests. They just dont want a certain element in the place. Just like you heard in that thread it was all good until.. it started to get a little dark in here.. lol. This thread could go on and on about why owners, managers feel this way. You know why, its nothing new if youve been playing out for a long time.

Since i apparently am the forums upmost authority on the subject I can honestly say that you cant just blame managment, the crowds are kind of the bigger problem because they dont look at the big picture. A DJ friend of mine explained it to me best, he opened his own club so he could run i the way he wanted to and he wanted alot of upbeat, electro remixes, EDM ect and he said it best "The kind of customer you want in your establishment in this area is kind of a problem because you have these well off people who spend alot of money begging for ghetto hood drug dealer music, the problem is those SAME people will stop comming to your establishment all together when the ghetto hood drug dealers that music targets start really showing up ." So basically ya little 19 year old sorority suzy wants to be cool and hear lil wayne and jeezy and have fun, BUT when she comes back 2 weeks later and no one in the crowd looks like her anymore, theres a VERY high probibility that shell find another establishment to frequemt. So basically what you have is a situation where the clientele is sabotaging themselves, so giving them what they want isnt always a good thing, this is where it gets tricky because they will also go somewhere else where they WILL get what they want. As a DJ I find it dissappointing because i spend a good 25% of the night playing music that will purposly kill the crowd\vibe. So the managment does have valid concern because from my personal experience, if an african american gentleman comes to a club and its all white people its just another day at the office but if a white dude comes to the club with nothing but african amercians they wet themselves....unless they wanna score drugs lol. So by not paying attn you can very easliy lose a demographic. Now wether or not thats a bad thing is on them.

Now where the owner comes into fault is if they want their venue a certian way they CANT just rely on the DJ, ive been told as a DJ its my job to establish an enviroment condusive to the kind of crowd they place wants...thats BS, as a DJ its my job to read what walks in the door and make those people have a good time and spend money, I think its the ownerships duty to put forth effort into effectivly advertising and doing their part to make sure the kind of people they want come in the door, throw college nights, invite frats for events, throw theme events that draw in the "fun" crowds that hood bangers wont go near, enforce a stricter dress code ect. I also dont think its a race thing alot of the time as much as it is a class thing. Im sure most establishments would rather have a "dark" crowd thats on their grown and sexy rather than a bunch of redneck or bikers. I was talked to recently about playing a nights worth of music that was on the "rough" (read hood side) I started to plead my case but before i could finish they brought the bartenders out who explained to me that the customers who were there were being very rude and obnoxious and not tipping or spending any money at the bar and having general problems occur more than normal so in that instance they were kinda right the music wasnt attacting the right kinda crowd.

Depends on how you step to them, as MTV videos and Facebook profiles will show, chicks will do some pretty wild shit in front of a camera when there's alcohol involved.



I've seen managers take note when standing near me and hearing what chicks were actually requesting as opposed to what they thought was going on. We're talking about the older "no Reggae" type dudes too.

Another place I was at recently until my schedule could no longer accommodate, the staff and management loved it when I played 90's R&B, New Jack Swing, House/Club etc, loooved it (and of course I had no problem) but when shooting the shit with the manager I was talking about how I wished I could play it all night and he said "yeah, but you gotta give the crowd what they want, I get it". I'd even seen him shake his head at some requests but not say anything as long as these tarts were still on the floor. (even the hood stuff)

Some will get it, some won't. But I think it's worth more of a shot showing them directly vs. not saying shit, coming home and typing on a forum full of Dj's about it.

I dont think you get it yet. Every venue is different. Bezzle got it right on the money.

Bezzle I totally agree with you in it not always being the fault of the establishment, that's why i said this...



And referenced your Lil' Suzy. I forgot to mention the white boys in polo shirts listening to "thug" music.

This is not about sacrificing the state of the venue for the requests of a few self entitled control freaks in the crowd, but being aware that just because you play a few Hip Hop records, doesn't mean "shirtless black guys" are going to overrun your establishment.

LOL I don't get it "yet"? I've been doing this long enough in enough different locations to know that.

If i thought every place was the same, why would I say something like

"Some will get it, some won't. But I think it's worth more of a shot showing them directly vs. not saying shit, coming home and typing on a forum full of Dj's about it."


Just because i don't have a defeated attitude about it all, doesn't mean i don't "get it"

LOL

Sorry should say "LOL I don't get it "yet"? I've been doing this long enough in enough different locations to get quite a bit actually"

Lol, defeated attitude, about what?

See but thats the thing though, you have to know your limits, im not one of these "you have to educate your crowd" guys but you do gotta cut it off when its good for them. Because what happens is you have these crowds full cubicle gangstas who wanna prove their hard enough to be carryin that dime bag of dirt weed they have in their beamer, who JUST wanna hear that bang bang shit, so if you read that crowd and leave it to them you WILL be playing webbie, boosie, jeezy, gucci, and all kinda other artists whos name start with lil or end in ee\ie\y because as soon as you deviate from that into some flo rida your steppin on their swagger bubble.




I think the part hes saying you dont get though is that its not about proving to managment that your crowd wants that kinda music, its more so of knowing that the crowd wants that music but the crowd dosent realise they DONT want whats comming after they get their wish.

Your not changing any owners mind with all that extra stuff. They have a business to run and liscences to keep. I completely understand where they are coming from.

If you think you can't enlighten some management to the real deal than you're only seeing things in black and white (no pun intended) I came from a hardcore Dancehall sound, a sound that dates back to longer than most here were Djing, and some here were even alive. The kind of Dancehall that is not in the "but women love Reggae" playlist (No Murder She Wrote, Heads High, Gimme Di Light" every night). And despite the stigma that comes along with that I've played in some of the most commercial venues imaginable, and played genres other than what was specified in the least likely places.

Like i said, some people are just naive, some people are hard headed (closeted racists), there are different personalities and you have to figure out which ones you can work with.

About just accepting that owners want what they want and there's no flexibilty or reason.




Who said any different?

Look, you guys are the ones that are bitching that you can't play shit, and you wish owners could see. I'm just saying how about you actually discuss that with them rather than coming to a forum and talking about these villainous owners who will never get it.

Yup I kinda agree because I can speak from personal experience that I have played nights where it started out with alot of classy people who wanted hood ish but devolved into the "shirtless black guy" fest you previously mentioned and in the context of that night it was in fact bad for busniess. And I can personally say ive never been playing a night of black eye peas and kei$ha and had the same result. Its not saying that your garenteed a thug fest for playing lil wayne, but that IS what their playing where the thug fest IS going down so your increasing your chances exponentially when you create an enviroment their used to.

Bullshit, as a Dj you need to know how to balance. If you think that just by playing a few Hip Hop records in your set the floodgates will open you're being just as hard headed as these owners.

No one is bitching over here, where'd you get that from?????

That dude in that thread just encountered that "dark" situation for this first time. Were trying to help him understand what he is about to face more often. Your coming at it from some other angle about changing managers minds.

That right there seems defeated.




You're speaking as if ALL managers can be summed up, yet you're the one that's telling me that I don't "get" that every place is different?

You're experience tells you one thing, mine tells me different.

Im agreeing with you here, as a DJ you should know a balance and a few hiphop records wont kill you but that goes against yuor original post. 99.9% of the people in my area HATE anything over 85 BPM, that includes flo rida and pitbul, the crowds i play for want 100% gucci lil wayne jeezy, so basically showing the owner that the crowds wants this isnt gonna help because if they get what they want its not gonna turn out well in the long run. Ive seen it happen to almost every club in our city (2 this year) club opens, club gives the people what they want with all the gucci man lil pistal poppa BS, a few months go by and theres not a single white person in a 6 block radious, cue shooting, club becomes a memory.

Ok, good luck with that.

Sorry, "bitching" didn't mean to sound aggressive. But it's not just you, it's everyone i see on this forum time and time again complaining about their situation but never doing anything about it but waiting 'til they get home to complain, rather than focusing that energy in the situation itself.



Actually no I'm not, you're talking in the extreme sense that it's about "changing minds", you're clearly not comprehending what I'm saying and are on your own suject right now.

I've had great luck with that and just gave you examples of it. Are you not reading anything in here before jumping to your own conclusions?

Like I said, defeated attitude. I think it's you that doesn't get it yet or you've been playing too many similar gigs/venues that you can't believe that it could be any different.

Trust me Bezzle, I get the extreme in certain cases. I was long doing the hood gigs in my own neighourhood 10-15-20 years ago, long before any of that stuff was accepted. people talk about the "golden era" of hip hop but don't realize it wasn't so golden when you weren't allowed to play it anywhere. My home neighbourhood is also very Jamaican, Reggae HAD to play regardless if it was a full on bashment or just sprinkled in, or else you were getting nobody in the venue yet bar owners who weren't from the area moved in and din't understand that they couldn't just "take over" with such an extreme policy.

If we would've just sat there and accepted everything a naive establishment owner had "envisioned" without trying to show them a different side of things, we'd still be sitting around in shitty basement dances.

This is not about holding the venue hostage and saying "we're playing hardcore drug dealing drive by music all night and we're inviting all the shottas and there's not a damn thing you can do about it" but it's about really looking at your situation, trying to figure out a way to balance and get the owners on board at the same time. Some people have the uneducated notion about certain types of music or people and it's not always because they were raised in the KKK, but sometimes just because music is really no their strong point.

There is balance and i see every side of it. i started the one post "its getting dark in here" and quick, bezzles right in that little suzie white girl wants to hear gucci and lil wayne untill it gets over populated with what that music will in the long run attract than she stops going to the club.. the funny thing and most ironic thing of it all is as a white person the people i can not stand the most in the club is impatient little white boys who think they are hood when they grew up in the suberbs. because atleast in my area most african americans regardless of age still have an appreciation for good music regardless. so early on in my area if you play michael jackson or even some house with some r&b in it black folks dont care cuz they know they will hear there shit later.. little obnoxious white kids under 24 want their shit all the time no matter what.. to me its just a sign of the times cuz ten years ago when i was going to clubs i went to meet girls i didnt care what the dj played these dudes today would rather dougie with there dudes then grind on a girls ass. so my message to white kids under 24 goin to clubs to dougie with your boy is "get on an ass dont be scared of the booty " that is all

Definitely, that's why I said it's all about balance. I don't know how what I was saying earlier was being misread, but it is what it is I guess.


Personally I don't even play "hood music" anymore. But as noted earlier in the post about the manager who told me he "got it" as to why I would play certain things, the odd time a "hood" record (and I'm using the term loosely because I would consider them more hood by a stuffy conservative type's perspective, not it's actual standing in a social status thing) it was rare, but it was enough to keep at least someone happy enough that when I got back to the regular program there were no problems on any end.

LOL @ "Sorrority Suzie"

And without fuelling negative stereotypes myself, I have always said about the young white kid who can come in from the suburb, dressed in his "get up" (because usually when they try and dress and act like their black counterparts, it's more of a caricature of what they "think" a black person dresses and acts like, rather than how they actually do) and puts on a front, only wanting to hear hardcore shit, it's them that you gotta watch for because they're the ones that are trying to hard to "prove" and will start shit vs. some of the toughest cats I've ever known who keep to themselves in a corner, sipping a drink and watching the eye candy until they're ready to take one home.

thats why i said its not a race thing as much as a class thing, because do you really think a dude trying that hard to prove how down he is is gonna spend alot of time in a club blastin katy perry and dev

Where I'm from it's sort of a 5 boroughs situation like NY has but our borders aren't as defined geographically, you don't take bridges and trains into other sections you can walk across the street to your friend's and be in another municipality. It's more about class over here vs. white neighorhoods/black neighborhoods. We don't have any rich people in my section which holds about 600, 000, it's all working class and lower income with a pocket here and there of middle class and a majority immigration population. This has always been why I have no problems with race, but class to me can be a thing that divides much more, and unfortunately in the club business this can be a major obstacle, especially when you're dealing with someone from another "part of town".


This just reminded me of a situation I was in before, I used to play a spot that was run by a few Italians playing up the "connected" role, they were from a town north of the city that had lots of Italians, from upper middle class to straight up bankin'. This was nowhere near where the club was located. And they were cool about music in terms of they liked a lot of Jay-Z and the "baller" type sets (Jim Jones, Khaled) in between the fist pump music. So I show up one week wearing a nice enough Roc-A-Wear sweater, and the management says "Oh, didn't [name] tell you, we're all suits now with the reno" and I said okay, I'll do that up next time and he's like "seriously, we can't have that" and I'm laughing not only because I have no beef with suits, but because the owner loves Jay-Z and well, look at the shirt I'm wearing.

Anyway, without going into further detail (I would be getting too specific) it became clear that they really only wanted their own in there (which was funny because they started the most shit) but it's also funny because they were the opposite of what some of you are dealing with, they wanted all the hood shit they could handle to the point where I'd get in shit if i didn't play it, but there better not be anybody who looks like they actually listen to the music up in there or else.

Watchwww.youtube.com

If the manager is paying a straight fee, then you play what they say. If you are getting tips off the bar, you play what makes sells more drinks. If the manager is calling the shots, ask to switch to a straight fee-based payment.

oh wow some pretty classic stereotypes coming up here! I think both sides are right... many club owners look at it as a situation where image is paramount. Others think entertainment and crowd satisfaction are the keys. Both are extremely important, and the reality is that often times, people in the "nocturnal" industries make knee jerk emotional (sometimes drunken) decisions... especially if "their club" doesn't look like what they imagined, for whatever reason. Now, many of those reasons are ignorant or really counter to what we do as DJs, but a lot of times you can find good owners who are willing to work with you.
Dj Shamann has been doing this for years in a big city and has the advantage to bounce if the owner is too hands on/ignant. But he also knows that years ago we had to BEG places to let us play "black music", even in the big cities, and that often times owners were quite pleased with the result. I always think of the hippie guy in the LA area who took over his brother's bar and the first night said to me "this is reggae?!" as he stood there in his tye-die shirt and watched a demographic that was really not his come in the door. When he took the place over, he imagined "cheers" with all his friends. But when he realized that these folks were cool, had the same passion for music and fun that he did, and he was making money hand over fist, he really wasn't trippin.
Still, it is really quite often that I find my vision and the owner/manager of a club's will not align. It's very nice to be in a position where I can be selective about my gigs/venues and not give up my "career."

This is not how I work and haven't for 20 years and I'm not about to start now. With all due respect some of you are saying obvious things like "manager calls the shots" well no shit, but that doesn't mean he's always right. That doesn't mean you can argue with every single one of them, but it doesn't also mean you can't compromise with any of them.

A) I'm not going to work at a venue that hires me to play like a pre-programmed jukebox at some incompetent managers beck and call. I have options and I'm not going letting my career go down the shitter with the venue just because they pay me a few bucks every week and just because "the manager calls the shots"

B) I don't actually have a problem with most of the music most people around here act as if they are "forced to play", if I did, I wouldn't come to the forum every week complaining about my situation, I would change it or just move on. It's not worth it to me every week to hate what I'm doing and have a new negative story to tell the forum every Monday. Why are we Dj's if we hate everything involved? Believe me, I know it's not all peaches and cream but I also know that if you put your energy in the right place you can do something about it. It's this attitude that's allowed me to call a lot of my own shots over the years.

This thread was not intended to go the way it did, it was just meant to give some people some food for thought. Some of you may not think it's possible, well fine then, be on your way and do you and play the way that's been dictated to you from now until whenever you've gone mad with frustration. For those of you willing to put in an effort and try new things, think about what I said, you don't even have to do exactly what I suggested, you can even put your own twist on whatever it is you do, as long as you're doing something about it.

Yes!

But you won't know unless you try.





Egggzackly. been there done that, and in a time where it was way worse than now trying to play some of the stuff we take for granted. It's not that I don't understand the uphill battle it can be, it's that I don't understand why people won't do anything about their own situations other than talk about it on a forum 2 days after the day they didn't say boo when the manager was right there in front of their face.

Please note, none of this is directed at anyone in particular. Just tired of seeing a lot of Dj's here on Monday's completely frustrated about everything that has to do with our scene when it shouldn't be that way.

I get frustrated too (obviously by watching other Dj's so frustrated lol) but it's not something that I let get to me to the point that I use this place to be my revolving door of rants for everything that I don't like about my place in the game.

Supply and demand. If you're in demand, then you get to set up the deals and shop around for a place that wants to do things your way. On the other end, if you're not in demand, then you have to do what the bar/club/owner/manager wants.

DJ'ing for $$$ is like catering or any other service-based small business. Either the people paying want to tell you want to do, or they want you to tell them what to do because they trust your experience.

Of course those are the extremes of the scale. There's always a middle point where you get to work with the bar/club/owner/manager to try and let your experience meet up with their goals.

lol my major fustration is a complex issue because its not event he correct focus. What I mean is lets take last weekend for example, ownership pulls me aside and says hey the music you were playing got kinda rough (ie hood) I know your trying to build your rep up and get credibility with this crowd but they were being rude to our staff ect ect ect.

Now heres where my fustration kicks in, look at that last line about them thinking im trying to build cred with that crowd....I HATE THAT CROWD lol, I LOVE EDM MUSIC, if it was up to me they would have nothing but loud overproduced obnoxious 135 etard bangers playing..ALLLL.....NIIIGHT....LOOOOOOONNNNGGGGGG and that crowd will have none of it, if i play ONE song that isnt a radio banger that has a fast beat i get a line and a petition to stop playing techno (i mean seriously anyone who thinks the mike d remix of racks is the "techno" version needs to be put in a mental hospital and placed under serious observation). So since that crowd dosent exist in my area i have to cater to the peasants with their hood crack bird money music and then i get talked to at by managment because they think im doin it out of my own enjoyment.

This is why I said i don't work a certain way. To be honest I don't remember the last time I've ever really bumped heads with a manager. The only thing I can remember in maybe 10 years was last year when the chick comes up to me and says "you're getting a little too dancey" and it was just a passing remark not a reprimand (although I did quit the place because I thought the management had no interest in music whatsoever, and funnily enough the guy who works there now told me "all they want me to play is Dance music" LOL.)

I'm hired based on my experience with music. I keep an open line of communication with them for sure, and I love it when they get in the mood and understand where I'm going and ask for songs, and I let staff make requests if I'm in a good environment (I don't always do that because some of them will ask for some real crowd killing shit) but it has to be a situation where I'm trusted to do my thing and not be micromanaged.






You see as far as I'm concerned, if I knew that this music was going to cause problems and it became a thing where people were mistreating the staff etc, I would end it myself without management having to tell me anything.

I guess the problem here was calling this thread "The Bezzle Situation" because you're goes a little deeper than what I was saying with this thread, as I told you i just called it that for a joke since I've been seeing people refer to it.

As for you Bezzle, I think you really need to sit down and discuss everything the manager wants, add your two cents as far as what you need to make it work, and after that stick to the plan. You hate this crowd, don't do them any favors. If you think that the crowds way is going to turn it into a raging thug fest, and on the other hand the management way is just going to kill any crowd whatsoever, than maybe you need to call it a day and move on.

I understand that you've told us all what Mobile is like, but there's gotta be SOMEBODY out there that can dig the music you wanna play, even if it's not Breakbeats but something where you can see yourself progressing. Maybe you need to a drop a few gigs (I know you have a 9-5) and take some time to get your name out there through mixtapes, video mixes etc in your local area. Build a following.