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Reggae vs. Dancehall...

lopezj1290 9:46 PM - 26 March, 2011
What's the difference?
RogerRabbit 10:12 PM - 26 March, 2011
Dancehall is reggae - they are used interchangeably. When most people request reggae - they are asking for dancehall. But dancehall is more uptempo vibes or slackness (talking about having sex, bragging about guns, cars, money,dancing etc).

Pure reggae is more focused on social issues and hardships in the community, spreading love and living upright, the goodness of ganja and the love of Jah Rastafari - Emperior Haile Selassie - and and is usually in the slower bpm range than dancehall.

But there are artists that almost always does reggae tunes and dancehall artist who sing both reggae and dancehall... Also some of the themes in pure reggae are sometimes covered in dancehall tunes.
lopezj1290 10:16 PM - 26 March, 2011
Quote:
Dancehall is reggae - they are used interchangeably. When most people request reggae - they are asking for dancehall. But dancehall is more uptempo vibes or slackness (talking about having sex, bragging about guns, cars, money,dancing etc).

Pure reggae is more focused on social issues and hardships in the community, spreading love and living upright, the goodness of ganja and the love of Jah Rastafari - Emperior Haile Selassie - and and is usually in the slower bpm range than dancehall.

But there are artists that almost always does reggae tunes and dancehall artist who sing both reggae and dancehall... Also some of the themes in pure reggae are sometimes covered in dancehall tunes.

i appreciate the clarification...I'm just having a hard time organizing my music in Itch u know...
Dj Mike P. 10:49 PM - 26 March, 2011
Quote:
Dancehall is reggae - they are used interchangeably. When most people request reggae - they are asking for dancehall. But dancehall is more uptempo vibes or slackness (talking about having sex, bragging about guns, cars, money,dancing etc).

Pure reggae is more focused on social issues and hardships in the community, spreading love and living upright, the goodness of ganja and the love of Jah Rastafari - Emperior Haile Selassie - and and is usually in the slower bpm range than dancehall.

But there are artists that almost always does reggae tunes and dancehall artist who sing both reggae and dancehall... Also some of the themes in pure reggae are sometimes covered in dancehall tunes.

Actually the difference in the two is not subject matter, the difference is in the sound. Its like the difference between Calypso and Soca. Dancehall is just a more uptempo style of Reggae. True subject matter is most often the things you mentioned though.
dj_soo 11:18 PM - 26 March, 2011
always thought reggae is often more melodic and bassline-oriented whereas dancehall has that distinct syncopated drum pattern.
4mydawgz 11:31 PM - 26 March, 2011
Usually the bpm's will separate the two. 90's + is probably dancehall. - 90 is usually reggae. Not always. Also the instruments used in the songs.
lopezj1290 12:38 AM - 27 March, 2011
Damn u guys r confusing the shit outta me now....
CAPSLOCKED 1:30 AM - 27 March, 2011
I Dj in Hawaii.... not to sound racist but if a tourist ask me to play ray-gay i would think more dance hall music like Benie Man, Chaka Demus, Bom Bye Bye, Super Cat, Vybz Kartel

But if a Local or someone who look local ask me to play Ray-gay i would think more like Bob Marley, Dawn Penn, Sister Nancy, Alpha Blondy, Jr Gong, Gregory Isaacs and more

I guess if someone ask you to play Reggae maybe ask them what do you mean by Reggae so that way the don't give you the laser eye when playing Reggae.
RogerRabbit 2:25 AM - 27 March, 2011
Quote:
Quote:


Dancehall is reggae - they are used interchangeably. When most people request reggae - they are asking for dancehall. But dancehall is more uptempo vibes or slackness (talking about having sex, bragging about guns, cars, money,dancing etc).

Pure reggae is more focused on social issues and hardships in the community, spreading love and living upright, the goodness of ganja and the love of Jah Rastafari - Emperior Haile Selassie - and and is usually in the slower bpm range than dancehall.

But there are artists that almost always does reggae tunes and dancehall artist who sing both reggae and dancehall... Also some of the themes in pure reggae are sometimes covered in dancehall tunes.

Actually the difference in the two is not subject matter, the difference is in the sound. Its like the difference between Calypso and Soca. Dancehall is just a more uptempo style of Reggae. True subject matter is most often the things you mentioned though.


The line is very blurry because you can have an original tune on the original riddim from back in the early 80's by Marcia or Gregory and everyone understands it is reggae and the riddim is recycled again later down the road(without speeding it up or modification) and vbyz is on it talking about "fukcing pussy and shoting batty boy" and it become dancehall..

The difference is something you learn after you spend a bit of time with the genre - its like house music - I still don't know the difference between progressive house, deep house,commercial etc..
DJ GaFFle 2:33 PM - 27 March, 2011
Quote:
Dancehall is reggae - they are used interchangeably. When most people request reggae - they are asking for dancehall. But dancehall is more uptempo vibes or slackness (talking about having sex, bragging about guns, cars, money,dancing etc).

Pure reggae is more focused on social issues and hardships in the community, spreading love and living upright, the goodness of ganja and the love of Jah Rastafari - Emperior Haile Selassie - and and is usually in the slower bpm range than dancehall.

But there are artists that almost always does reggae tunes and dancehall artist who sing both reggae and dancehall... Also some of the themes in pure reggae are sometimes covered in dancehall tunes.

Good answer... I've been differentiating the genre in my collection since I started my Serato music collection.
AKIEM 3:09 PM - 27 March, 2011
Dancehall is a newer style of Reggae. The difference is a) Dancehall uses electronic production and sampling while Reggae began with live instruments. b) With Dancehall the DJ (vocalist) is mostly rhyming or 'chatting' instead of singing how Reggae began - and earlier before the electronic production a DJ chatting over Reggae dub versions was the beginning of Dancehall.

There is a strong analogy with Hip-Hop. In the beginning MCs rhymed over disco, funk, rnb, rock breaks before electronic production and sampling technics. The difference being Dancehalls roots are squarely in Reggae while Hip-Hop borrowed tunes from a wider range of music styles.

While there is not much slack or gun talk with Reggae proper and there is plenty of that in Dancehall - there is also plenty of positive Dancehall in the name of Jah Ras Tafari. So it is not only about subject matter.
skratchworx 4:37 PM - 27 March, 2011
I'm surprised that nobody has mentioned Lover's Rock - it should be in this thread somewhere.
Tunecrew 6:16 PM - 27 March, 2011
Quote:
The line is very blurry because you can have an original tune on the original riddim from back in the early 80's by Marcia or Gregory and everyone understands it is reggae and the riddim is recycled again later down the road(without speeding it up or modification) and vbyz is on it talking about "fukcing pussy and shoting batty boy" and it become dancehall..

The difference is something you learn after you spend a bit of time with the genre - its like house music - I still don't know the difference between progressive house, deep house,commercial etc..


This is the only correct answer
Dj Farhan 7:43 PM - 27 March, 2011
to me dancehall to reggae is what hip hop is to rap..
lopezj1290 1:29 AM - 28 March, 2011
Quote:
to me dancehall to reggae is what hip hop is to rap..

Good point and similar predicament...
AKIEM 1:57 AM - 28 March, 2011
cant really agree with that
Rap is a vocal style that is part of Hip Hop.

Hip-Hop's rapping is to Reggaes 'chatting' or 'toasting'

both rhyming
xplycyt 2:13 AM - 28 March, 2011
Quote:
I'm surprised that nobody has mentioned Lover's Rock - it should be in this thread somewhere.


i'd always file lover's rock (reggae tunes not talking about 'social issues and hardships in the community' but love and romance instead) under reggae and add lover's rock to the comments - can't tell you that i know any lover's rock dancehall tunes. yet again I don't claim to be a master reggae selecta! :-/
AKIEM 2:33 AM - 28 March, 2011
I really do not understand why anyone, especially DJs would classify music by subject matter.

slackness is not what makes Dancehall what it is - there is plenty of righteous Dancehall - its not all slack
RogerRabbit 2:39 AM - 28 March, 2011
Quote:
Quote:


I'm surprised that nobody has mentioned Lover's Rock - it should be in this thread somewhere.


i'd always file lover's rock (reggae tunes not talking about 'social issues and hardships in the community' but love and romance instead) under reggae and add lover's rock to the comments - can't tell you that i know any lover's rock dancehall tunes. yet again I don't claim to be a master reggae selecta! :-/

Ha - you can always classify love and romance under social issues..if we wanna be technical..
Ok -again I can post a riddim with Glen Washington, Singing melody or Sanchez all singing love tunes and it become lovers rock - post the same riddim with fanton mojah or jah cure - it becomes reggae - and again the same riddim with future fambo or bounty and become it dancehall...
DJ_X_Trodinaire 2:51 AM - 28 March, 2011
so what is Reggaeton?

<run n hide>
RogerRabbit 3:06 AM - 28 March, 2011
Quote:
I really do not understand why anyone, especially DJs would classify music by subject matter.

slackness is not what makes Dancehall what it is - there is plenty of righteous Dancehall - its not all slack


Take for instance and old riddim like the i need you riddim : you can take the
chuck turner or al cambpell on that riddim and classify it as lover rock and take the lt. stichie on the same riddim and classify it as dancehall.

OR
Shank I Sheck Riddim with Triston palmer, ranking joe - its reggae - alley cat and ward 21 get on riddim a few years later its now dancehall

OR
Rough yet riddim : yellow man and josey wales on the riddim = reggae. The jimmey riley and kashief lindo on the riddim = lover rock.. The terry ganzie on same riddim = dancehall...

I could keep going...but why argue with someone who doesn't what they are talking about..

Btw - my first response wasn't intended to be an all-encompassing answer to the difference between dancehall and reggae....
AKIEM 7:52 AM - 28 March, 2011
I can agree with you about it being blurred but

arguing over terms and semantics is meaningless
(aka you can name as many tracks as you want and call them what you will - wont make it so)

how about some reference?
en.wikipedia.org
maybe you have argument with this page - I dont mostly.
Dancehall is a subgenre of Reggae
"The style was characterized by a deejay singing and rapping or toasting over raw and fast rhythms"

just like I said - its about the rhyming, toasting and chatting not the slackness. Saying Dancehall means slackness is the same as Rap means cash/murder/bitches - it might sound that way but there are plenty of rappers with positive conscious lyrics just like there are plenty of DJs with positive conscious lyrics.


Shank I Sheck
Triston Palmer - Young Lovers = singing = Reggae - even tho its a 'version' its not rhyming. en.wikipedia.org

Ranking Joe - Tell The Nation = singing AND chatting = Dancehall - especially with all the cutting the track and effects like dub

Ally Cat - Protect Me = singing AND chatting = Dancehall

Yellow Man - Jamaica Nice = singing AND mostly chatting = Dancehall

Bounty Killer - Down in the Ghetto = singing AND mostly chatting = Dancehall

Sanchez - Brown Eye Girl = singing and NO chatting = Singjay (I still call Dancehall because its over the version)

Cocoa Tea - Evening Time = singing and NO chatting = Singjay (I still call Dancehall because its over the version) BUT pay special attention to the lyrics "Sweet Louis work is over now its dancehall time

Dancehall is rhyming (+singing) over a version - Its called Dancehall because thats where it was invented - chatting over instrumental versions - originated by Count Matchuki and U-Roy. Sound system talking over the instrumental version in the dancehall. Turned into chatting and toasting and rhyming.

Same as how Rap started - MCs talking over the breaks - eventually rhyming and rapping.
skratchworx 8:00 AM - 28 March, 2011
Sweeping generalisations:

Roots - conscious spiritual lyrics. Has something to say, and most of it it about social struggle.
Lovers Rock - laid back romantic style. It's the slow dance.
Dancehall - More upbeat and energetic. Originally toasting over dubplate versions, but the modern stereotypical version is something entirely different. For me, it's not even Reggae, more like the angry son who has rebelled against the family that wants to stay up all night and party hard with the ladies.
Dub - like dropping an E and waving your hands around, this is the music to get lost in. Close your eyes and let go.

Not really a fan of what dancehall has evolved into myself. My headspace is still in the 70s/80s Roots and dub.
RogerRabbit 8:39 AM - 28 March, 2011
Quote:
I can agree with you about it being blurred but

arguing over terms and semantics is meaningless
(aka you can name as many tracks as you want and call them what you will - wont make it so)


Yeah - I could post more examples what I am saying but I am sure lopezj1290 already got the point of the difference between the two... Plus if I pick out a few more examples - from my library - it make take you some time to research & wiki the tracks and come back with a rebuttal..

You forgot to comment on:
Quote:
Take for instance and old riddim like the i need you riddim : you can take the chuck turner or al cambpell on that riddim and classify it as lover rock and take the lt. stichie on the same riddim and classify it as dancehall.

Quote:
Rough yet riddim : yellow man and josey wales on the riddim = reggae. The jimmey riley and kashief lindo on the riddim = lover rock.. The terry ganzie on same riddim = dancehall...

^^What you can't find the info in wiki? :)
AKIEM 10:03 AM - 28 March, 2011
Quote:
Sweeping generalisations:

Roots - conscious spiritual lyrics. Has something to say, and most of it it about social struggle.
Lovers Rock - laid back romantic style. It's the slow dance.
Dancehall - More upbeat and energetic. Originally toasting over dubplate versions, but the modern stereotypical version is something entirely different. For me, it's not even Reggae, more like the angry son who has rebelled against the family that wants to stay up all night and party hard with the ladies.
Dub - like dropping an E and waving your hands around, this is the music to get lost in. Close your eyes and let go.

Not really a fan of what dancehall has evolved into myself. My headspace is still in the 70s/80s Roots and dub.



I agree - only I am stuck in the 90s Dancehall


Quote:
Quote:


I can agree with you about it being blurred but

arguing over terms and semantics is meaningless
(aka you can name as many tracks as you want and call them what you will - wont make it so)


Yeah - I could post more examples what I am saying but I am sure lopezj1290 already got the point of the difference between the two... Plus if I pick out a few more examples - from my library - it make take you some time to research & wiki the tracks and come back with a rebuttal..


Well I am actually speaking from my library - I searched "shank" to pull up all my versions. If you need an SSL screen shot, I can provide.

I was not researching on wiki - I pulled it up to SHOW the terms we are using - If you disagree with that page fine. You can keep calling the sky red, I am calling it blue and linking to a page that mathematically describes the color blue.

Quote:

You forgot to comment on:
Quote:


Take for instance and old riddim like the i need you riddim : you can take the chuck turner or al cambpell on that riddim and classify it as lover rock and take the lt. stichie on the same riddim and classify it as dancehall.

Quote:


Rough yet riddim : yellow man and josey wales on the riddim = reggae. The jimmey riley and kashief lindo on the riddim = lover rock.. The terry ganzie on same riddim = dancehall...

^^What you can't find the info in wiki? :)


No I dont have much of those riddims - Ive got the Chuck Turner, but not Al Cambpell or Stitchie. And on the Josey Wales riddim all I have is U-Roy - so I didnt have anything to say about those AkA - I am not "researching"

On the other hand, I answered all your points - you skipped over mine.



Dancehall is a subgenre (or spinoff) of Reggae - pretty much ether true or false. Which is what I have been saying - and what wiki also says as a reference (not my source as you would like to believe)

Dancehall is about DJs rapping, toasting, rhyming, chatting - whatever you want to call it - originally over instrumental Versions and later over original riddims and productions.

This came about in the Dancehall - thus the name Dancehall.

This is very simular and fathered the formation of the style (rhyming over breaks) what became Hip-Hop.

Much of it is slack, but not ALL of it - same as Hip-Hop. Still conscious artists in both genres.




Now - not only am I naming the different terms - but I am outlining the difference and showing a working explanation. But if you want to bring up more riddims and just name what you think they are, Reggae vs Dancehall bassed on what YOU call them without any other kind of explanation other then its what YOU call them - be my guest :)
RogerRabbit 4:30 AM - 29 March, 2011
:) You don't even have a stichie or al campbell in you library and you wanna debate with me on the difference between reggae and dancehall.


Quote:
Now - not only am I naming the different terms - but I am outlining the difference and showing a working explanation. But if you want to bring up more riddims and just name what you think they are, Reggae vs Dancehall bassed on what YOU call them without any other kind of explanation other then its what YOU call them - be my guest :)


It's not what I say is Reggae, but want the people determine is reggae, particularly the people of Jamaica. You are probably basing the difference on the Peter Tosh and Bob Marley reggae - but the music has evolved.. Yester-year it was tosh and marley - these days its more of morgan heritage, luciano, and jah cure - but based on your definition - you may call these guys dancehall artists...since they sometimes sing on riddims..
AKIEM 6:44 AM - 29 March, 2011
Quote:
:) You don't even have a stichie or al campbell in you library and you wanna debate with me on the difference between reggae and dancehall.


I never said my collection was larger then yours. Im sure its not.

I sprinkle 90s classic Dancehall into my Hip-Hop sets. I am comfortable with an hour or two Dancehall set - but thats all. And thats all thats necessary. I keep Dub and Reggae on other drives for my own listening pleasure and collection. And all the newest stuff I just ignore.

But who has the biggest library dont necessarily decide who can bring the best answer.

Quote:
Quote:


Now - not only am I naming the different terms - but I am outlining the difference and showing a working explanation. But if you want to bring up more riddims and just name what you think they are, Reggae vs Dancehall bassed on what YOU call them without any other kind of explanation other then its what YOU call them - be my guest :)


It's not what I say is Reggae, but want the people determine is reggae, particularly the people of Jamaica. You are probably basing the difference on the Peter Tosh and Bob Marley reggae - but the music has evolved.. Yester-year it was tosh and marley - these days its more of morgan heritage, luciano, and jah cure - but based on your definition - you may call these guys dancehall artists...since they sometimes sing on riddims..


I am basing it first on a technical artistic development - toasting over versions. And the development from there.

You are basing it on subject matter. The problem with doing that, although often getting it correct (imo) sets up situations where it is not correct. Because a DJ can chat about roots & culture, everything positive over any riddim but that wont make it other then Dancehall. Its still Dancehall because it is a style and a method - not a subject.

What I am saying (even though reasoned out years ago) is backed up by wiki as an example.

Yes - Dancehall is slack and gun talk, just like Hip-Hop is - especially now. But that is NOT the definition. It might be a characterization and true enough but it is NOT always correct. Same as there are positive Hip-Hop MCs there are positive Dancehall DJs.

As far as it being defined by Jamaicans fine - my understandings come from Jamaican people I have known over the years and reasoned with about the music and culture.

I have no problem with you seeing it different - but you are still NOT refuting what I am saying - you are not showing anything different - no explanations - just saying its different.

Again if all you are going to do is say 'your wrong' without any real example or explanation - I really dont have anything else to say - I can just copy and paste at this moment.

make a reference - show an argument - recite some history
reggae delgado 5:19 AM - 7 April, 2011
Wow, I can't believe I missed this thread the first time around! I have been hearing and reading this argument since the late 80s. If you go to Jamaica, you can have the same one with even more opinions.
In california, and the other places I've played on the west coast & beyond, in 2011 dancehall refers to the more spare, dance oriented digital riddims, and reggae refers to the more melodious and instrumental sounding tunes. Nowadays, both feature singers and rappers/toasters/DJs, but as AKIEM points out it began with "toasters" who mainly performed live at shows, usually only "toasting" (freestyling) between records featuring singers. The lines has been further blurred as producers more ably play slow, instrumental sounding riddims for multiple artists to play over.
As RogerRabbit points out, Yellowman would be considered reggae... today. Years ago he was literally "king of the dancehall," and hated for his "slack" (x-rated) lyrics. This points to the less quantifiable difference... dancehall is what the old folks don't get, and the kids can't get enough of.
But as a DJ, if you can play it and make people START to sweat, it's dancehall... if they are just settling into the groove, that's reggae. And of course, individual results may vary.
agentorange 4:59 PM - 7 April, 2011
Quote:
Sweeping generalisations:

Roots - conscious spiritual lyrics. Has something to say, and most of it it about social struggle.
Lovers Rock - laid back romantic style. It's the slow dance.
Dancehall - More upbeat and energetic. Originally toasting over dubplate versions, but the modern stereotypical version is something entirely different. For me, it's not even Reggae, more like the angry son who has rebelled against the family that wants to stay up all night and party hard with the ladies.
Dub - like dropping an E and waving your hands around, this is the music to get lost in. Close your eyes and let go.

Not really a fan of what dancehall has evolved into myself. My headspace is still in the 70s/80s Roots and dub.
rootsandculture86 10:19 AM - 26 June, 2012
what I think is most important is this (assuming REGGAE MUSIC is the all encompassing term):

"Dancehall" is whatever is popular in the dancehalls a yard an abroad whether its hardcore slackness, slower bpm roots riddims (which I call roots, not reggae for this very reason), and unfortunately, this hip-hop obsessed fuckry that dominates today (with very few exceptions). You look to the Kingston streets for the sound's definition, ever evolving.

In most cases though (in northern california/bay area), if someone asks me to play reggae, they want Peter and Sly and Damien. If they ask me for dancehall, THEY WANT IT ALL and JAH KNOW DATT!

Lest we not forget: ALL of this music, without exception, IS FOR DANCING. When you dance a roots and bashment music, the basic dancing movement and tempo is the same generally (slow wine, rub a dub skankin vibe seen?) even tho the bashment tempo different. Most round here like to hear the dancehall on a CD, in their car they play sum Capleton rude ting-- think it sound hot, but dont have a clue how to dance di ting (dem look like a straight erkle).

Slow pace rule di ting. Let we teach all likkle white gal fi cool the pace when bashment ting a play, the late gregory isaacs say dat.