I switched from TSP to SL about a month ago

I'd say traktor has a better auto gain for sure. And my Audio 8 sounded better than the SL1 that I have now obviously. So without an SL3 or above I can't offer a fair comparison

Sound Quality
Traktor 9/10
Serato 7/10

I use a NI audio 2 sound card for the bridge. Tested it by loading the same song in the bridge routing it to my audio 2 card and deck A to Serato soundcard. I couldn't tell the difference. Heard Audio 2 should be same sound quality as the rest of the NI soundcards but with less inn/out puts. I might be wrong though.

You're right the Audio 2 has the same sound as the audio 4 and 8 though I'm not sure if the same applies for the new ones (audio 6 and 10)

I have a Audio8 and a SL1, the A8 does sound a bit better, nothing that cannot be fixed with eq's on a good mixer. I would like to test with a SL-3, once I get one, Ill check back in,.

Having had both, I find scratches sound better on SSL /w 57SL due to the hi-fi resampler.

.

You should also include which interface you're referring to.
SL1, SL3.
Same tracks on the same system?

If your going for sound quality, use traktor. If your going for creativity and deliverance, serato. But serato the bridge. I have the Traktor audio 10 sound card, Native instrument Machine, Serato sl3 with a APC40 ableton live 8.2.1 for serato the bridge. Creativity goes to serato hands down. Its alot more work to setup up stuff for a show with serato the bridge, but it completely worth the time. As traktor has something similar like the Machine, the program Machine and Traktor scratch pro 2 doesn't work together like serato and ableton. If your just walk in the club and just have a pair of technics and a 2 channel mixer, definitely traktor. If your using a pair of techincs, a pair of pioneer cdjs, and a four channel mixer and you spin uptempo, traktor. If you want to be creative and perform you style of beats for on the fly remixes with simplicity and no problems, serato the bridge everytime. It depends on what kind of dj you are really. Not one has made it to wear you can live and die off of it, so until serato or traktor really blow us away with a change that will finally serperate them from one another, we will always have this debate.

Traktor A8 vs TTM-57 soundcard: Traktor easily
Traktor A8 vs SL3: Traktor

I think NI did a great job with the latest update. A few more tweaks and they will dominate.

Traktor audio 8: 7/10
Serato SL3: 9/10

rane 68: 10/10

Test performed using JBL SRX series speakers

BS!!! You can be creative with any dvs you choose..

A creative dj using final scratch can sound better a bland dj using the bridge..
A creative dj using ssl 1.4 can sound better than a bland dj sound using NI tsp 2 with the audio 10..

^^^^^^^^ +1000

i love serato/rane but my old audio 8 had better sound qual then my sl3, but ive moved on for stability reasons.

Are we playing in Carnegie Hall? After about the 4th drink who's paying attention as long as it's loud? If you are running sl, and someone complains tell them you're sorry but you are in fact using the #1 software used by more clubs and djs than anything else. Maybe they should look in to bringing in an engineer to tweak their sound system. If you are using traktor, adjust the previous statement to say #2 and only out done by one other option...

This may be true for the US but not the rest of the world.

Thank you. Serato should investigate upping their sound quality because I hear the same good things about Traktor's sound.

i have an Audio8 moved to SL after a mate comes in with SL3 and kick my Audio8 in da balls in sound Quality , now on to rane68 , nothing match that yet

Also, iTunes sounds better than Windows Media Player.

Sure the Allen & Heath DB4 will probably outdo the 68. Actually probably any of the higher end Xone's will hang if not sound better.

I am still disagreeing on the SL-3 sounding better then the Audio 8.

isn't the insides of a 68 the same as a SL-3?

Pretty much but I won't comment until I have listened myself. There might be some secret Rane magic added in.

I ordered mine with "extra magic" and it sounds really good.

SL3 vs. A8:

The specs on the units are almost identical. I'd be suspicious of anybody who claimed they could hear a difference, based on the measured difference between the S/N and THD specs alone. We're talking about a 0.00001% difference in fidelity, all other things being equal.

So, that leaves a few other possibilities as to why the A8 "sounds better":
* "Default" output is hotter on the A8 (the widely-observed "Louder is Better" principle)
* A8 is applying some kind of "sweetening" or "emphasis" to the signal. (Rane has a design history of "not doing anything to the signal" so I don't know for sure if they're doing nothing, but it seems likely).

rs

^yup

I have to say. I downlded Traktor the other day and used my SL3 as the soundcard and played the same track on both programs (SSL and Traktor) and I had the feeling that Traktor sounded better! Not totally sure about this though. I'll try another experiment this weekend and report back the data. Anyone have an idea on how to this is a more scientific manner? Like spectral analysis or something?

let me be clear about this. there is no possible way for that to be true. it's just playing your audio files. perception probably plays in a bit to convincing your conscious mind.

Rane should just add a 5db gain switch and screen 'better quality' next to it.

I find this very believable. I can play the same audio track in Cubase, Logic and Ableton and they will sound different. That is one reason a number of producers produce in ableton but mix down in another DAW.

lol - cmon you cant compare mixing down to just playing a track.


without any effects, key lock, or whatever - you guys think the files on the same sound card sound different? Its not impossible - but what type of coloration do you think ether software is doing - positive or negative?

Of course there is. I don't think both tracks are playing the tracks completely clean. SL used to have a vinyl bla bla model to reproduce vinyl like "style" (maybe not sound). So yes, they can sound different.

What you should try instead is..
1. Playback songs in Traktor using the A6/8/10
2. Playback the same songs in Traktor using the SL3.

Someone told me there is a hack type of thing out there which enables you to use Traktor Scratch with any ASIO soundcard, such as the SL3 for example. That would be in an interesting comparison.

anyway - there is a pretty simple (but not absolute) test:

send the output back into the computer, and record. If you can use a decent a/d that would be good. But you might be able to see something different in the wav forms. secondly, post the two results so we can all take a listen.

(from what Im seeing - confidence in you guys performing the test well = low)

thought that only kicked in when scratching?

but yes - you do have a point

here is the real question - If both signals are not essentially just 'pass through'.....

scrap that - yes they can/might sound different

the question is - which one is closer to the actual file. is there a degradation, or is there a sweetening? There will never be a definite answer for us, because it would be our subjective choice as to which sounds better if there is a real difference - BUT we might be able to detect wich is closer to the original.

here was a test - didnt include traktor

serato.com

True.

I think part of the problem with the "which sounds better argument" is that unless you run it through some sort of mastering program to physically test the signal and see the waveforms it produces a lot of peoples biases and feelings about the respective companies is deciding in their mind which one is better.

Being louder doesn't make something sound better on any planet and it isn't the reason I keep hearing people say traktor "sounds" better. I'm not picking sides clearly I'm a serato user but it seems to me like people make excuses for their product to win because they bought it this isn't a war. These two companies use two different chipsets for their soundcards it matters alot how the end result will sound, I'm not so sure about software playing a roll but that is a possibility. In the end it doesn't matter for basic production or mixing in a club both are very much up to the task.

Buy which ever one you think has the most value to you ignore all the internet nonsense, everybody is a sound expert all of a sudden.

^true^

but lets do a test for the fun of it.

I agree, if there is anyone who can suggest a more rigorous way to do that (other than just listening to it) I'm open to suggestions.

1 Use an AIF track from decent CD
2 Run it through the several components
3 in through a decent (same) a/d
4 record with DAW (same)
5 make sure you arnt changing anything including gains
6 number the files - and zip them
7 Let us download
8 we all listen, look, find any differences.
9 you reveal what each track is

Ok, I'll try it this weekend. Maybe I should adjust the gain to make them the same, in case one card is louder.

This will already color the audio depending on the Audio device you use for recording.

no - that could color AND change the test not letting us take into account the loudness differences



True - but they would all be colored the same. remember we are looking for the differences. Hopefully the DAW would be as transparent as possible - but if it does the same to each....

Should actually send it out through itunes and another daw or something as well...

so we would have the og file, and what it sounds like through several devices

double-blind experiment methodology. You need someone to record output as closely as possible from the two sources - same tune, exact same recording settings, etc. Make sure both are normalized at the same db peak too. Use at least 3 songs, probably in as many different genres as possible. The name the files randomly (i.e. make sure trackrec1 isn't always traktor and trackrec2 isn't always serato).

Then send to someone else who doesn't know which recording in which. That person determines the order of the tracks to be sent to the masses to listen and compare (that's us).

Record data.

Analyze said data. If p > 0.5 probability that people pick one over the other (dependent on sample size) then you can safely conclude that most people perceive an improvement in sound.

That being said, it's been well over 12 years since I've had anything to do with the scientific method so someone else should probably do it.

^right - except I dont fallow, what/why should anything be 'normalized'? Or are you just saying both softwares should be set to 0 output?

Literally "kicking science." Nice work.

normalized meaning they both peak at 0 db (or -1 db maybe) - if indeed traktor has a hotter output than serato, then the added volume will create a bias. if the recordings are identical in their volume then the track recordings will need to be gained to the point that they are both identical in volume.

er - "if the recordings are NOT identical in their volume"

hmm, The way I think it should be done is (lets assume TSP is louder) - record TSP first - set the recording level to peak at 0 ( or -2 whatever). Keep the same recording level - do not touch it - then record Serato. If you try to compensate for one being louder then the other that could introduce a coloration in one but not the other.


OR (more complicate then need be) do twice the number of recordings compensating in both directions - half the recordings would peak at near 0, the other half would peak at -3db or whatever the difference is.

well, if you have a high-enough quality audio editor, simply normalizing the track just brings the waveform in line with whatever upper limit you have in mind - it's not like you're adding any compression of limiting to the deal.

Just from my experience it's pretty hard to get identical recording peaks in realtime from two separate sources....

why normalize if loudness may be a factor - wouldnt/shouldnt the listeners want to see the difference we are dealing with?

what would normalizing do for us other then artificially take loudness out of the equation?

I for one would like to see if there is a level difference

cause of the loudness = better quality bias which shouldn't be a factor in judging overall quality. Just because the default output of one may be a decibel lower than the other doesn't mean it's "better sounding."

That's why mixers have gains right?

If you're trying to judge which "sounds better" then by all means you should be taking the loudness out the factor...

for the administrator to be changing the signal to one in any way seems not right.
even if trying to eliminate a loudness factor.

let the tester deal with any loudness difference how we see fit - I mean isnt each tester going to pay attention to their own results - or do you really think we can get some type of definitive answer by combining all results? I dont think so, unless there is an obviously clear "winner". I would much rather have a better understanding of what the real differences are including loudness. If the louder one wins - yet some of us know better - then so be it.

take a look at this "test" hardly anyone even reported
serato.com

Also notice how everyone dropped out of this thread once it got towards actual tests/facts/data! I think a lot of us may have energy for opinions but not energy to test them!

i have to say, most of us who are on here all day are sitting in a cube at work and don't have the ability/time to put to much effort into it, kinda like the blood bath that's going on right now

Oh, definitely. I also don't own these other interfaces, etc, and no matter what the results are I'm not going to throw my 68 out the window and go buy a new god knows what. At the same time, I am consistently amused by the people who are willing to state things as fact, but then get quiet as soon as words like "normalized" are used... seems like the idea of an actual test scares some of the opinions away. Not pointing any fingers and certainly not implying that any of us SHOULD be spending our time on this. That being said, I'd be super happy to listen to the different samples and see just how deaf I really am!

Personally I just don't care enough. It was fun trying to devise a test using shit I studied over a decade ago in college, but from what I've read, the new 24bit serato hardware and traktor by all accounts is "close enough" in audio quality that it's more or less moot. Kind of how some people prefer different brand dj mixers...

But you do care enough to actually know what you're talking about, which I suspect some people on the tread do not!

Why are there no responses from any official Serato representatives?
I want to know what the company view is. Thx :) Stackhouse

PS Last year DJ Qbert made a great comparison video scratching vinyl on both systems.
I'd like to see another test like this one with Serato SL3 vs the latest Traktor Hardware/Software.

Watchwww.youtube.com

this

I used both,for a longer period of time.
First,serato (sl1 and ttm57, later sl3) for 3 years,then Traktor for 1.5-2 years.

So im not talking about a 1 day comparasion.

At first it sounded like audio 8 has better sound than sl1,and ttm57,but is equal to sl3.
I switched and used audio8dj for year and a half,and when i say switch,i mean complete switch - no serato at all.
I loved traktor for 4 deck sync,still waiting for serato sl to bring in at least a sync for sp6.

The thing I hated the most was browsing in traktor,and i still hate it. Thats the only thing that brought me back to serato.

It influenses your set perparation. If i hate browsing songs in a program,i will hate preparing my sets,my cue points etc.. and after some time ( a year and a half in particular) i found myself getting bored while plaing (not because i used sync button - thats the fun part).

After some time,i've decided to compare these 2 soundcards.. long story short - serato sounds like it has more dynamics to it.. and audio 8 seemed to be too .. flat?
That all being compared with serato,traktor,ableton,logic pro,in a real studio environment. Serato card on all programs and audio 8 on all except serato sl.

Hope this helped someone.

So outside of sound quality, would anyone say there is benefit to having traktor?

Unlimited supply of white tractor cv's ? :)

I have both and the answer is

I cant tell the different between sound quality, I guess traktors sound can be a little bit more colored but thats not a bad thing

It seems like for us DJs that aren't crazy about effects and just want a plain old dvs Serato is the winner

In my experience, guys that think the DJM-800 sounds better than a Rane also think Traktor sounds better than Serato. Must be the half-deaf guys liking the extra brightness?

effects, complex midi mapping, 4 decks.

seems like traktor can open more doors for your building your sets with your own beats and geared more for full "performance" style djing.

Although with the bridge, you can do most of this as well - Ableton is just a little more intimidating to most i think...

Nothing else to say there...

Can't really say on straight playback, but to my ear the scratching is more "expressive" with serato. You can hear the pitch change more when slowing / speeding up, I think.

You can play with the threshold settings on both traktor and serato and get the same expressions. I really dont see a huge different there.