I am going to be using a Dell e1705, 1.73 dual core, 2 gig ram and i believe its a 120 gig 7200rpm hd (but it might be less,speed wise,how can i check?)!

Cheers again

DjDej

If you have to ask, don't buy it. There is a new standard in DJing... go with it.

And the new standard is what ?

SSL

NEW standard? Last I checked SSL has been out long enough to not even remotely be considered new.

DJ Dej....

Yes, I'm still using Torq and love it. I've used it with SL1200 MK II's, Technics SL-DZ1200's, TASCAM Mixwell CD-DJ1's in both external control, amputate (1 controller), and internal mode. I have an X-Session Pro and Trigger Finger that I use along with the decks when I DJ.

There were some early issues with clicking and popping in Ver. 1.0 but that was addressed in the 1.01 release. The database issues were addressed quite a bit in 1.02.

At this point there are still a few issues with regards to usability if you're coming from another program. As for stability I and a few other users on the 'other' forum are using Torq for extended sets in front of crowds and in the bedroom (when practicing). By extended, I mean 7-8 hours straight. I have a gig for a sorority formal in April and will be using Torq- for all 7+ hours of it.

I've also tried using Torq LE (no external control - requires you have an X-Session Pro) with excellent results. It's a slightly trimmed down version of Torq that works quite well with a Trigger Finger and XSP. If you just want something to goof off with while using midi controlers then the XSP and Torq LE is a quick way to give the software a go without breaking the bank (pick up an XSP for $99 and DL the software).

And yes, I still use Serato when I play a gig with Julls (unless I bring my equipment too). I like Serato but the midi controllers I've added recently and the long list of effects make for a more creative set for me.

If you have any more questions feel free to ask... even if the Torq haters on the board here give you grief for it....

BTW, when the mixer I want is released I'll have Torq, Torq LE, Mix Vibes, Tracktion, and Ableton all available to me. Even though I use Torq for nearly all my gigs I like using other software to give me ideas so I can keep stepping my DJ'ing to the next level (slower than I really want - but I have a day job).

I was confused by this seeing as Dj Qbert and his fellow scratch dj's are using Mixvibes DVS Pro !
(possibly the lowest latency going, not sure about stability but it's gotta be pretty good i would have thought!)

MusicMeister cheers for the input it has been very helpful.

Seeing as i'm in England its a bit of a nightmare to go and try these things out in a shop and it doesn't help with all the single minded people saying "get Serato" as its the best and so on.
I can't comment on what is the best as i have not used any of the programs yet, but as far as i can see Torque is definitely something that i will look into and maybe purchase in the next few weeks.

I like how Serato looks and all the reviews say that its the one to get and everyone seems to rave about it, but the fact that im gona be able to use Ableton live and midi controllers really appeals to what i want to do.

I've been doing a lot of research on this for the last few months and i just want to get the program that is going to suit me best and not be a waste of money.

For anyone thats gona Preach please don't bother because i have been looking into Serato, Mixvibes DVS Pro, FS2(no good),Torque & Tractor Scratch for a long time, as far as i can see Torque, Serato & DVS Pro come up at the top of them.
Couldn't find much out about Tractor Scratch.
But again its my own personal choice what i choose to use.

Cheers for the help MusicMeister its been much appreciated.

DjDej

Serato Scratch LIVE (SSL) will get MIDI support with an update in a near future. There is no date for when this will happen but I thought I should point that out anyway. Personally I think that SSL has the best GUI, the best support and it's very stable! They develop new features slowly to be able to maintain stability. There will also be plugins which you can buy separetley for video and pitch shifting (Pitch 'n' Time).

When it all comes down to it, go for what you feel. I'm not the bandwagon type, but I do understand the foundation a good product has for longevity. Sometimes it's not all about the amount of features or flashing lights. Sometimes its about reliability and support of your product. Make your decision based on your needs. Keep doing your research and go with your gut.

It's your money and I'm not DJing with your equipment, but I will tell you that if you can't find a community as strong (and as deep) as this one for the product you're willing to purchase... keep that in mind as something you may sacrifice right up there with MIDI or whatever other feature you're looking for which SSL doesn't have [at the moment].

Good luck.

Just get something that your comfortable with it's like buying a new pair of pants

All I need is Ableton live working with SSL....I guess everybody is leaning towards the thought of remixing on the fly and tons of Effects.

Dj's becoming Producers and Producers becoming a Dj.

Cheers for the feed back guys

DjDej

Excellent points...

I've used a lot of stuff and went with what I did because of my needs at the time. I've told people who had 'other' products (not just Torq) that they should have gotten something else (or steered them to something else) because the software/hardware didn't meet their needs. I'm glad I'm not the only one that feels that way.

And Maskrider is correct... a LOT of DJ's are producing more and more... and a lot of Producers are DJ'ing more and more...

Seems like every interview I see with a 'big time' DJ is about them really enjoying the production work and trying to find a way to blur the lines while DJ'ing....

I sold it about a month after buying it. It's a great product, but didn't represent a big change from the kit I was already using. I had some small problems with Torq, and it seems like M-Audio is addressing those with regular updates. But the only features Torq had that Traktor didn't were VST support (which I currently don't need) and ReWire (which is useless to me in slave mode only). Traktor's independant key and tempo is superior to Torq's implementation, and it's looping functions are better. Those are my 2 "must have" features, so I just stuck with what was working for me.

That's no knock at all against Torq or M-Audio. It's an amazing offering for the money, and I expect M-Audio to keep the pressure on this year.

Nice, cheers for the replies. Its always good to get feedback of any kind

Cheers

DjDej

nem0nic,

Didn't know you sold it (must have missed that post)... but I'll let you know what's going on with the updates once I find out. M-Audio also has a sequencer coming out shortly.... it's called 'kickaxxe':
matrixsynth.blogspot.com

Not so much for DJ'ing but I'm thinking of using it to lay down some new bass grooves...

Yeah, I posted about it in the Torq forums. I have nothing but love for Torq, but it didn't represent a major change from what I was already used to having. And I knew I would be testing Traktor Scratch soon.

The softsynth looks nice! I've been yearning for an arpeggiator lately... might be just the trick. Thanks for keeping me updated.

How did the tests go on Traktor Scratch ?

I bought Torq when it came out cause I had some extra bucks and wantd to play with it. I was somewhat impressed with the internal playback system and liked the internal effects. The music database and organization system sucks and completely needs rebuilt - from the ground up. Searching my 35,000 track library froze the GUI screen, and while it didn't disrupt the playback I don't need to worry about it potentially happening.

Then I moved on to using it with the TC vinyl and CDs. It was terrible... high latency, poor sound.

I still have Torq - and I'll keep it, but to quote Cassie, they've "Got A Long Way 2 Go."

DJ Lil Vito - download the latest version (1.02) and rebuild your library. 1.02 addressed some major issues in the library - and while it still needs some work, it's MUCH better. I did some pretty heavy testing with over 70,000 tracks and it still freezes the screen it's only briefly - instead of the 15+ seconds I was getting with about 65,000 tracks. Analyzing your tracks in advance helps....


Nem0nic - I'll have kickaxxe shortly and will let you know what I think.

The TC vinyl and Cd's are nearly comparable with Serato and much better than FS. Torq latency is pretty solid at 10-11ms. Serato is usually around 7ms.

I got Torq and sold it after a month to get SSL.

Honestly it's not a bad program (especially for the price) - there are just a few issues for me that were complete dealbreakers (that may not be for other people).

My biggest issue is that the Conectiv box doesn't have a dedicated pass-through like the SL1 and forces the user to bypass their mixer pre-amp to use the Conectiv pre-amp if they want to play vinyl. The caveat with this is that in optimizing the pre-amp for best-quality timecode playback, it results in having any regular vinyl being played on Torq be like 40% quieter than normal. Wasn't a big deal to some but it was a huge annoyance to me.

That and the database, searching, and organization really does suck. The fact that the database didn't even read all the id3 tags for BPM pissed me off as it required me to essentially bpm my stuff twice (i like using smart playlists to organize by bpm).

The effects were really cool except i already have an efx-500 so having on-board effects aren't a huge deal for me.

That being said, for the price - Torq is pretty good - I would say it's better suited for the electronic dj/producer type but for the hiphop style dj it's not bad either.

I'm betting they'll listen to the complaints and have the product running pretty smoothly in the next couple of updates...

what about "BozakSkratch" has anyone tried that one?

We're still in testing, so I can't say anything about it. BUT there's going to be a good representation of what Traktor Scratch is at Remix Hotel in Miami. It will be more or less a finished product (instead of the alpha that was at NAMM), so you can get a good idea of what it can do then.

When it gets released, I'll be publishing specs on the A8DJ and TS on my website (just like I did with Torq).

Can't wait for your review MM.

Does this mean that Serato will work with Traktor?

thing about serato is that it works, big time money djs use it, and small time djs use it. It works, the kinks have been worked out for the most part, so why fuck with others that are still in development. I have had 2 crashes since Oct 16, and both were due to faulty vbr files, that happened in one nite. I changed those files to normal, not VBR files and everythings been smooth since.

Serato is a no brainer. Musicmeister obviously has some interest in pushing Torq, cuz thats all he ever posts about. He uses serato occasionally but his 70000 files don't crash much anymore.

I have no interest in 'pushing' Torq. I only post about it because there is so much FUD with regards to the product - even now. And I start NO new threads with regards to the product and only respond when there is a question or FUD.
(FUD is a computer security term meaning Fear Uncertainty Doubt)

I'm generally happy with the product. There are some issues, but these are more like annoyances than real problems.

I post about Torq - but I also post about a lot of other things - largely with regards to dealing with specific types of events or business issues with being a DJ.

nem0nic - I'll drop you that review shortly.

Torq (1.02) felt like a beta. I'm almost certain it was the worst thing I've ever purchased.

^ you don't purchase much software do you? There's far worse than Torq as far as bugginess goes.

i own both TORQ and SSL and SSL is sitting on the shelf. although ido like SSL

For me its the opposite... but I dont like Torq really ;)

there probably is worse, but the real point is that there shouldn't be, when you buy a product, there's a certain level of expectation that the product you buy does not contain any major bugs.

No, I don't see that ever happening.


By that standard, Serato would have failed as well. It shipped with a stack of bugs. I remember the drift issues and database problems most. All software ships with bugs. The real test is how the company deals with them after release.

Which database problem?

actually, it's a marketing term: en.wikipedia.org

Funny how nobody mentions or asks about Final Scratch 1 or 2 any more - if Torq keeps ignoring its users and banning people from its forum they soon will be dead as Tracktor Final Scratch...

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA - didnt Nemonic also moderate the now DEAD TFS forum - still fighting the war against idiocy, eh Nemonic? (but you still on the wrong side)

Nemonic you are totally, hmmm, whats the word "IGNORANT" - Serato had problems when it camne out - BUT ALL YOU HAD TO DO, AS I DID IS CALL THEM - I had a major problem when it first came out - I called SAM (one of the Heads in Chrage of SSL) and they fixed my issue within a WEEK - FUCK TORQ and Companies who ignore their customers.

AND like you are really trustworthy or smart enough for us to believe your tests WHATERVER...

Weren't you one o0f theyt people that tried to convcince us that TFS had less lagg than SSL... but when Sam and AJ broke it down your lies were exposed.

TBH, the vinyl drift issue and the database issue are far enough back that I would be pressed to give details of either (I seem to remember the drift issue being a bad pressing?). I just remember people complaining about them when it was first released. I didn't get my hands on SSL until around the 1.4 patch. The point is of course that no software ships without bugs.

WL, nice to see I still have fans. Still living in the past I see. I'll make a deal with you. I'll keep doing what I do and you keep doing what it is that you do. I've gotten lots of feedback on my review of Torq, and my testing methods are both well illustrated and easily reproducable by anyone. The method I use to determine needle drop latency is actually the one AJ (from this forum) used to measure SSL's latency. I also used that method to benchmark Torq. I use easily available tools (like Rightmark and the Centrance latency checker) to give an overall view of the hardware. And I clearly illustrate the results so even mouth breathers like you can see them (although after reading your shotgun style A.D.D. threadcrap again I'm not sure - maybe I'll draw sum pikchurs 4 u).

Good response - I will take that into consideration. TFS is still for losers. The ball has been dropped and will never bounce again - And Torq isnt far behind. in the mean time Serato became the indutry standard, based on the countless nightclubs that have installed it, and DJs that use it. Once a standard is established, it is very difficult for another comapny to take over, but still possible. But not by the way Serato interacts with its customers. You would think that a company in biz would want to hear and talk to their customers, but I guess TFS and TORK just don't get it.

ROFLMAO @ A.D.D. threadcap. I guess my main point is that companies who ignore their customers and dont believe in fair competition (ie: banning people and phrases on the torq and TFS board) will never succeed. I remember when TFS board banned the word Serato Scartch Live, hahahahahahahahahahahahahah LOTS OF GOOD THAT DID. Suckers I HATE STANTON THE ARE THE SHITTIEST DJ COMPANY OUT THERE - AND I WILL NEVER EVER EVER BUY ANOTHER STANTON PRODUCT ever again in my life time. FUCK STANTON and that little byatch Henri whos daddy owns the company.

and LOL at "PIKCHURS"

respek (intended spelling) Nemonic,

Peace.

If we're talking about publicly-traded corporations, the interests of the shareholders often override those of the customers.

Since I don't think either Stanton or NI are publicly-traded companies, I have no clue what their excuse might be (other than just plain old-fashioned bad management).

Yes, about the time I joined - approx. a year ago - there were still a few postings about a vinyl drift problem that had been fixed previously. IIRC there was a fix through the software. They had also released a new version of vinyl to handle the problem.

www.scratchlive.net

I don't know what database problem you're referring to though.

But yes, nearly every piece of software that's released has bugs.


derby: When I was working in the Computer Security side of things it was a term we used quite often. It's entirely possible that marketing dweebs also use it in one way or another.

You mean like on the Pioneer boards? Or countless other official company forums? I see your point. Also, no one is talking about Stanton. Is Henri still even over there? Again, you're living in the past.

Your argument is the typical fanboy argument, and is better suited on a PS3 or Mac forum coming out of the mouth of a 15 year old. No one is saying anything negative about SSL - I think you'll find that the last review I did didn't have much judgement at all either way. I tested the product and posted the results. There is obviously enough interest in this kind of information on these forums that I've been addressed directly.

The DVS market is approaching mainstream now, and we're starting to see a diversity in the products available. This is a good thing. Just like in most other DJ equipment markets, products are made to target different groups of users. I'll use my own personal experience as an example. I was looking at DVS systems about a year and a half ago. After having independant key and tempo in Traktor, I wanted a DVS that also had that feature. I contacted Sam about the progress made regarding this functionality in SSL and was told that it wasn't ready for release. If it had been, I would probably be an SSL user right now. For other users, use of VSTs is something they want badly. Torq jumps in to fill that gap (it's not the first DVS to support VSTs, but it's certainly the most easily available). For others, they want a DVS program that integrate well with other applications (like Ableton Live). Torq touches on this, as does Traktor, but I think Deckadance will be the first one to be a hit in this regard. Each app will have strengths and weaknesses that the user will have to weigh when making a purchase. As more of our collective needs are filled, the digital DJ marketplace gains more credibility. We all benefit from that.

FLOL @ mouth breather!!

OMG! There's someone that actually 'get's it'!

Better is a subjective term. What's 'better' for you might not be 'better' for me. If you need to do video RIGHT NOW what would you do? What if you needed MIDI support RIGHT NOW? VST Support? AU support?

It's about what fits the needs of each user - not forcing 'your' opinion of what's 'best' based on your own needs.

Spoken like a true torq fanboy!!

lol

yo mang. this probably has some of those one sided "get serato" things in it but it might help anyway.


www.scratchlive.net

Fairly insane ranting there fanboy. Not only are you living in the past, but your seemingly too stupid to do anything but thread crap what was a perfectly civil thread (that asked specifically for my input). It's a free country, so you're entitled to your opinions, no matter how stupid I think they are.

As for me being a bedroom DJ, after making a living DJing in clubs and at one offs from 1987 to around 2002, I moved full time into audio engineering. I've been doing that ever since. I currently also work with 3 DJ hardware manufacturers in their beta programs, and have been developing a MIDI controller with a 4th for the last 6 months. I regularly commnicate with everyone from satellite radio Music Directors and online retailers to Product Managers. And when I'm not sitting in front of a SSL 9000 or a Digidesign ProControl, I'm testing new products that I get sent for free or listening to promotional music that isn't out yet. The day I sweat you and "tha danga zone mixed by Hyman Rabinowitz" is the day I get my head examined.

So, because I choose to use things that Serato can't provide I'm a 'fanboy'?

Interesting... seeing as how I'm using video and Torq doesn't do that either...

So I guess I'm a 'fanboy' for motion dive .tokyo as well?

And since I use MediaMonkey for tagging I'm a 'fanboy' of that as well?

When you 'grow up' and have a need that isn't met by your existing tools then you'll realize that what nem0nic said isn't that far from the truth. You use what you need to get the job done - even if it's not what everyone else says is 'the standard'.

I want to point out that I'm not a scratch DJ. I don't even pretend to be a scratch DJ. If I was I'd probably love Serato and it would likely do everything I need. I'm a mobile that does a LOT of different things and is working on moving into production work. For that Serato doesn't meet my needs. I use what gets the job done but I'm always open to look at alternatives. And that is where we part... I'll look at the new deckadance product and go 'sweet, I wonder what it will be like when it's released' while you just see someone that uses it as another 'fanboy'...

^^^man i am just having a laugh seeing how easy it is for you to bite!

I personnaly could not care less what products you or anyone else uses, in fact i would go as far as to say i agree with you! Use what ever suits you needs! For me at present it is SSL but if something hits that suits me needs better, well.....

Me and SSL ain't married, know what i mean!

Anyway no disrespect meant just bored at work:P