Serato DJ Pro General Discussion

Talk about Serato DJ Pro, expansion packs and supported hardware

Feature request: FLAC support in ITCH

pasik 12:12 PM - 20 June, 2010
It would be really nice to get FLAC support to ITCH. I have a lot of FLAC files that I'd like to use without converting them.

Any plans/timeframe for this?
Panotaker 4:44 AM - 21 June, 2010
Flac is the way to go. I would like that too.
pasik 5:54 AM - 21 June, 2010
Yeah.. Traktor, DjDecks, VirtualDJ support FLAC already..
Simon B. 5:15 PM - 21 June, 2010
ITCH supports Apple Lossless. Just convert FLAC > AAC lossless, problem solved. Not FLAC, but its better than converting to MP3.
pasik 6:06 PM - 21 June, 2010
I don't want to convert to any other format.. that was the whole point:) These are existing tracks and I'd like to use them as-is..
kraal 7:17 PM - 21 June, 2010
point is there should be no need to convert :)
i want this feature too
Simon B. 8:50 PM - 21 June, 2010
I understand it is not ideal, but it is a solution if you want to use lossless files in ITCH. Otherwise, you have to convert FLAC into MP3, which is even less ideal.
casket hands 9:00 PM - 21 June, 2010
yes please
pasik 8:10 AM - 28 June, 2010
Any comments from the Serato folks?
jshpro2 5:51 AM - 29 June, 2010
The software should be able to play any audio file I can play with the other programs on my computer. If I have the codecs installed ITCH should detect & use the codecs. I was a little let down to see it could not play an .m4a for instance.
djcerla 7:29 AM - 29 June, 2010
ITCH would surely play m4a's
jshpro2 7:36 AM - 29 June, 2010
No it will not. I am pressing "load" on my m4a file and it will not load. Virtual DJ plays it fine. All my mp3s load right away, but the m4a file will not.

Maybe its something other than the fact its an m4a thats causing it to not load, either way I have an m4a file and ITCH doesnt respond when I double click it or try to load it or play it, but any other program plays it fine.

I will take a video if you don't believe me.
pasik 7:51 AM - 29 June, 2010
Please open a separate thread about the m4a problem :) Let's keep this one just about FLAC support..
jshpro2 7:53 AM - 29 June, 2010
You don't understand what I'm saying then. I was commenting and saying that normally computer programs will play ANY audio file you have codecs for. Rather than starting 1,000 threads each time we need an audio format wouldn't it make more sense if their program detected & used the codecs already on the computer (just like VLC player would)
pasik 8:01 AM - 29 June, 2010
Actually afaik VLC doesn't use the codecs installed on the computer, it includes it's own versions of each codec (mainly from the ffmpeg/libavcodec project).. and that's why VLC has become so popular, no need to fight with windows codec problems/mess.
pasik 8:03 AM - 29 June, 2010
Also I wouldn't have problems if ITCH supported codecs installed on the system, but it's not the case today, and I bet that'd require bigger changes than what's needed to just add FLAC support..

And all I need atm is FLAC support :)
djcerla 10:59 AM - 29 June, 2010
and, again, ITCH definitely supports m4a's (compressed AACs, Apple Lossless, even audio portions of m4a videos).
djcerla 11:01 AM - 29 June, 2010
Maybe you're just trying to load a protected AAC which is not supported
jshpro2 12:42 PM - 29 June, 2010
Quote:
I bet that'd require bigger changes than what's needed to just add FLAC support..


No way for us to tell. Closed source. Lets not make assumptions, I was throwing the idea out there so the dev team can decide. If it takes 1hr to add FLAC support vs 2hrs to support all codecs, it would be stupid not to support codecs.
djcerla 1:26 PM - 29 June, 2010
1 hour + license fees
jshpro2 1:44 PM - 29 June, 2010
You're ignoring the 99% of codecs that are open source and would require no licensing fees.
jshpro2 1:45 PM - 29 June, 2010
All these codecs are open source according to wikipedia. There are likely more than didn't make the list:

* FLAC - Lossless compression.
* LAME - Lossy compression (MP3 format).
* TooLAME - Lossy compression (MP2 format).
* Musepack - Lossy compression; based on MP2 format, with many improvements.
* Speex - Low bitrate compression, primarily voice; developed by Xiph.org.
* CELT - Lossy compression for low-latency audio communication
* TTA - Lossless compression
* libvorbis - Lossy compression, implementation of the Vorbis format; developed by Xiph.org.
* WavPack - Hybrid lossy/lossless
* OpenAVS
* FFmpeg - Codecs in the libavcodec library from the FFmpeg project (e.g. AC-3, AAC, ADPCM, PCM, Apple Lossless, FLAC, WMA, Vorbis, MP2, etc.)
* FAAC and FAAD2 - open-source implementation of Advanced Audio Coding
* libgsm - Lossy compression (GSM 06.10)[5]
* opencore-amr - Lossy compression (AMR and AMR-WB)[6]
* liba52 - a free ATSC A/52 stream decoder (AC-3)[7]
* libdca - a free DTS Coherent Acoustics decoder[8]

I'd say that's a pretty good coup if it only took an hour extra (we should let them decide)
kraal 1:49 PM - 29 June, 2010
Quote:


I'd say that's a pretty good coup if it only took an hour extra (we should let them decide)

i love this as if time is the ONLY factor in programing :)
jshpro2 1:52 PM - 29 June, 2010
Are you a programmer for a living? I am. Again - the guy who coded notepad did so before your printer even existed. I've never had to "update" my notepad but it supports any printer I hook up to my computer. Just because programming is tricky doesn't mean we should settle for crap.
kraal 2:03 PM - 29 June, 2010
Quote:
. Just because programming is tricky doesn't mean we should settle for crap.

sorry but i don't think itch is crap so i can't follow your arguement
jshpro2 2:13 PM - 29 June, 2010
I think its crap I can't use my codecs with it.
Simon B. 2:32 PM - 29 June, 2010
Quote:
I think its crap I can't use my codecs with it.


And would you like more bugs with that? Adding codec support would introduce their bugs into ITCH. Its not a matter of just adding the feature, any software project is a complex system that is affected in ways that simply cannot be foreseen - which is why there is extensive testing.

When it comes to mission critical software, what matters most is not the features but whether it gets the job done. I would love FLAC support, but whats the point if its going to crash on me? I think we can all agree that stability is the absolute most important feature of any dj software.
jshpro2 3:40 PM - 29 June, 2010
You argument is that they cannot do it without introducing bugs. That's a pretty narcissistic outlook. They said the phonograph was impossible and here we are with our digital mixers 100yrs later. Stop being a negative nancy.
kraal 3:44 PM - 29 June, 2010
ok they can do it just purposely choose not to :) that sound more positive ?

just a joke
jshpro2 4:26 PM - 29 June, 2010
Who said they're not going to do it?
kraal 4:27 PM - 29 June, 2010
Quote:

just a joke
pasik 10:29 AM - 16 July, 2010
So.. any comments about FLAC support? That's something important that ITCH currently lacks.
Maskrider 4:19 PM - 16 July, 2010
They might do it in the Future Release of ITCH.
lunaros 10:32 AM - 19 July, 2010
Please please please FLAC. It is a deal breaker for me. I am holding off buying Itch for FLAC support.
kraal 1:48 PM - 19 July, 2010
Quote:
Please please please FLAC. It is a deal breaker for me. I am holding off buying Itch for FLAC support.

does ssl support flac?
pasik 1:59 PM - 19 July, 2010
Based on this thread: serato.com

It looks like SSL doesn't support FLAC either. wtf, why?
Maskrider 5:00 PM - 19 July, 2010
I'm just wondering what is the Difference between Wav file and FLAC?
pasik 5:09 PM - 19 July, 2010
Both have exactly the same sound quality, since FLAC is lossless compression. The difference is that FLAC files use less disk space than WAV files.
pasik 8:18 PM - 21 July, 2010
Everyone who's missing FLAC support in ITCH please add your comment here.. Serato guys want to know about you.
marcA 5:55 AM - 22 July, 2010
+1
zaguama 7:57 PM - 22 July, 2010
+1
diezdiaz 5:09 PM - 23 July, 2010
+1

flac also has tags so i dont have to bother with updating the information when i load it into my library. or the pain in the ass thats involved when you have to re-enter a whole library of wav's
WhiteBlue 10:02 AM - 25 July, 2010
+1
czar 10:08 AM - 25 July, 2010
It'd be nice to create a huge list of features and let us the users rate them on a survey so we can help out!
czar 10:08 AM - 25 July, 2010
FLAC seems doable no?
pasik 10:16 AM - 25 July, 2010
FLAC is not difficult to add.. FLAC libraries are released under opensource BSD license, so they can be used also in commercial applications like ITCH.

See:
flac.sourceforge.net

"In simple terms, these libraries may be used by any application, Open or proprietary, linked or incorporated in whole, so long as acknowledgement is made to Xiph.org Foundation when using the source code in whole or in derived works. The Xiph License is free enough that the libraries have been used in commercial products to implement FLAC".

So.. waiting for ITCH developers to add support for FLAC :)
swif 6:08 PM - 25 July, 2010
+1
pasik 4:38 PM - 12 August, 2010
I guess atm the only/best option is to fix the VCI-300 Traktor Pro mapping and use Traktor Pro instead.. Traktor supports FLAC files out-of-the-box.

I'd prefer to have FLAC support in ITCH though..
pasik 9:12 PM - 3 October, 2010
Any new info about this?

Now that ITCH v1.7 is released can we please get FLAC support to next version of ITCH ?
KLH 3:10 AM - 4 October, 2010
FLAC should be supported.

There should be optional "plug ins" for alternative codec support. Say $10 for a codec beyond those in iTunes (since there's such tight integration with it).

-KLH
diezdiaz 2:01 PM - 4 October, 2010
yes to flac. im starting to get a large collection of flac and i am not looking forward to converting. thats alot of hd space spent...
PapiC 11:17 AM - 6 October, 2010
YES to FLAC. I have my whole musiccollection stored as .flac
AT^ 2:59 AM - 8 October, 2010
+1

It would be a nice feature!
lunaros 3:56 AM - 9 October, 2010
+1

Serato will have signed a deal with Apple in order to use ALAC as the ALAC codec is owned by Apple. Apple wants to lock consumers into their world of closed platforms and closed codecs. Apple will have told Serato if they want to use ALAC they are not aloud to implement FLAC. They is why Serato have not said another word about FLAC since ALAC was implemented. (THEY ARE IN BED WITH APPLE)
zaguama 4:11 AM - 9 October, 2010
isnt everyone? lol.
djcerla 11:11 AM - 9 October, 2010
@ lunaros you're so amazingly wrong
I1Kirm 10:45 AM - 10 October, 2010
+1 on the FLAC support
pasik 6:34 AM - 27 October, 2010
FLAC support has been logged as a Feature Request. See www.serato.com for more information.
Serato, Support
ChrisD 9:35 AM - 27 October, 2010
In bed with Apple? Ha ha. Funny.

You should see the hoops we have to jump through just to update our ADC subscription...
jshpro2 7:34 PM - 27 November, 2010
Thanks Chris, for confirming this isn't true (Not like I believed it anyways when he didn't provide a source)
stefski 6:55 PM - 12 January, 2011
+ 1 on flaccetyflac
Tgunn The 1 11:26 PM - 12 January, 2011
+10000000000000000000000000000000 million on flac support,and im speaking for many when i say you are losing alot of dollars not supporting flac
VJ Justin Allen 11:33 PM - 12 January, 2011
They are not losing anything by not supporting FLAC. Those that want to use Serato products just losslessly convert their audio to another format.
sylvainvh 3:04 PM - 14 January, 2011
please, hear us! We want to able to play flac song files. WHAT'S THE PROBLEM?
@Vj Justin Allen:
Flac is free and open
Alac isn't free
Papa Midnight 6:57 PM - 14 January, 2011
+1 for the FREE Lossless Audio Codec.

Quote:
In bed with Apple? Ha ha. Funny.

You should see the hoops we have to jump through just to update our ADC subscription...


Boy, do I believe it....
blackavenger 7:35 AM - 16 January, 2011
Quote:
It would be really nice to get FLAC support to ITCH. I have a lot of FLAC files that I'd like to use without converting them.

Any plans/timeframe for this?

Quote:
I don't want to convert to any other format.. that was the whole point:) These are existing tracks and I'd like to use them as-is..

Quote:
point is there should be no need to convert :)
i want this feature too

Quote:
FLAC seems doable no?

Quote:
yes to flac. im starting to get a large collection of flac and i am not looking forward to converting. thats alot of hd space spent...

Quote:
please, hear us! We want to able to play flac song files. WHAT'S THE PROBLEM?
@Vj Justin Allen:
Flac is free and open
Alac isn't free

Quote:
Yeah.. Traktor, DjDecks, VirtualDJ support FLAC already..


IT'S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN, KIDS!!!

Move along....stop requesting it!! Trust me, you'll save yourselves many, many "YEARS" of frustration & disappointment!!!!

Serato doesn't give a DAMN what codecs you want.......

www.serato.com
deadokster 1:37 PM - 26 January, 2011
+ 1 optimistic vote
billynoah 2:22 AM - 16 April, 2011
+1 for FLAC.
zaguama 2:56 AM - 16 April, 2011
like a wise person once said, in good time!
RyanG 5:06 PM - 7 May, 2011
Please add flac support, my library is nearly half flac. I have to create TWO music folders, one flac one mp3 converts. this takes up way more space and I don't want to permanently have mp3's which are lossy.
Maskrider 10:04 PM - 7 May, 2011
Quote:
like a wise person once said, in good time!



My All time favorite quote.......lol
serkan 7:18 PM - 8 May, 2011
+1 on FLAC in ITCH
Andre Fu 10:49 AM - 10 May, 2011
Most kids are growing up thinking MP3 is as good as it gets, that can't be right surely?!

FLAC support would be a real bonus. It's the perfect balance between my geekoid desire for audio quality and my reluctance to lug a (few) terrabyte's worth of Wavs to gigs...

Oh go on Serato. You know it makes sense! I promise not to winge about The Bridge if you do!
djcerla 11:22 AM - 10 May, 2011
Apple Lossless? This is supported by ITCH and available right on your iTunes application for both PC&Mac.
VJ Justin Allen 11:39 AM - 10 May, 2011
djceria, you are posting in the wrong forum...This is the "We love FLAC and HOW DARE Serato not include it" forum.

No other options will be good enough for this crowd.
djcerla 11:41 AM - 10 May, 2011
Quote:
djceria, you are posting in the wrong forum...This is the "We love FLAC and HOW DARE Serato not include it" forum.

No other options will be good enough for this crowd.


ooh my bad, I missed that part ;)
serkan 10:18 PM - 10 May, 2011
Hey VJ. I already missed you.
Please keep hating on FLAC without having a clue what you're talking about.
By the way: How is your "Anti-FLAC-Campain" working out for you?

@djcerla:
You're right about ALAC. But FLAC is the mostly used lossless audio compression codec and works on many devices. And for people not using an iPod (Apple's products are the only hardware players that support ALAC) it doesn't make sense to maintain two lossless libraries.

Anyway...
I don't want to get deeper in this discussions because I already spend many many hours in the following two threads. And I'm sick of it :(

serato.com

www.serato.com

+1 ...nothing more
VJ Justin Allen 10:39 PM - 10 May, 2011
Quote:
Hey VJ. I already missed you.
Please keep hating on FLAC without having a clue what you're talking about.
By the way: How is your "Anti-FLAC-Campain" working out for you?


Well since Serato as a company has yet to support it, it's working out pretty good.

However to be honest I have had nothing to do with their decision.

However have a look at a difference between FLAC and ALAC (Apple Lossless). You will see that there is not much difference between the two of them....and really no reason to add FLAC since it really doesn't bring anything new. Except more issues to troubleshoot maybe.

wiki.hydrogenaudio.org
djcerla 10:44 PM - 10 May, 2011
@ Justin

I think the point here is huge existant FLAC music library not accessible without a transcoding
djcerla 10:44 PM - 10 May, 2011
*libraries
Simon B. 2:21 PM - 11 May, 2011
@Cerla - you are correct this is a "transcoding" - this does not involve a compression (e.g., converting FLAC to MP3). A lot of people don't understand this, the transcoding does not affect the audio in any way, shape, or form, which allows the transcoding to be extremely fast.

With that said, transcoding a FLAC into a M4A/ALAC takes 12-13 seconds on my 2007 MB and 6-7 seconds on my 2011 MBP. Using a batch processing app like "Max" (see sbooth.org), you can translate hundreds of FLAC files into M4A/ALAC in an hour.
serkan 5:57 PM - 11 May, 2011
Let me repeat myself for the very last time.

Let's list the devices supporting ALAC:

- iPod

And now FLAC:

- Western Digital WDTV HD*
- Sandisk Sansa digital audio players (DAP)*
- Trekstor DAP*
- Cowon DAP
- new Denon/Pioneer/Onkyo home cinema receivers
- all Android 3.1 devices
- Samsung Galaxy S mobile phones
- Seagat FreeAgent GoFlex
- etc, etc, etc...

* devices I own

And it's even worse when comes to download music stores.
There is no shop offering ALAC. FLAC is growing step by step with more shops recently.

- groovetownvinyl.com
- djshop.de
- universalmusic.co.uk
- junodownload.com (wav can be switched to flac during check-out)
- bleep.com
- allflac.com

Lately more than 50% of my purchased music is in FLAC format.
To sum up: FLAC is a no brainer for me so I'll keep requesting it.
serkan 5:58 PM - 11 May, 2011
Quote:

Well since Serato as a company has yet to support it, it's working out pretty good.

Good one, smart ass :)
pasik 5:53 PM - 19 July, 2011
bump! We want FLAC support in ITCH !
blackavenger 6:30 PM - 19 July, 2011
Quote:
Apple Lossless? This is supported by ITCH and available right on your iTunes application for both PC&Mac.


I have accepted that we will never get FLAC support in a Serato Product. It's been requested for over 6 years now in ScratchLIVE.......they are not going to oblige!

I've also accepted that I am going to have 3 file types for every track on my Hard Drives..... (1) FLAC - Original, (2) ALAC - for ScratchLIVE & ITCH, (3) MP3 - for my iPod

Like Cerla said, you can just convert your FLAC files to ALAC....problem solved, except you must keep & manage multiple copies of the same file strewn throughout your various drives. Yes, it's a ROYAL pain in the ass, but it's how Serato want it, so ultimately it's how it IS going to be!

I suggestion to the owners of Quadcore Machines is that Y'all get dBPowerAmp to convert your files. It takes advantage of the 8 threads of the Quadcore Processor.......resulting in 8 tracks being converted at one time. This saves a hell of a lot of time when converting your library of FLAC files.

www.dbpoweramp.com

I know it's a Windows Application, but for you Mac users out there, just use "Parallels", "VMWare: Fusion", or "Bootcamp".......there is NO Mac equivalent to the power of dBPowerAmp....period!
R_DAWG 9:57 AM - 10 August, 2011
Forgive me if I am incorrect, but as I understand it when I approach the forums some time to go regarding FLAC on SSL the good people of Serato seem not to really know what FLAC was even. So it would go some way to explaining why FLAC was not on the development table. Naive questions were asked by Serato regarding it's suitability to DJ with (Doh!). And given that it really is as simple as popping the binaries into a programming build (OK I know that's simplified but seriously it's not that hard). You wander what other reasons there could be.

My hypotheses for what it's worth is that for there it's greatness' both SSL and itch are built upon Apple's quicktime API. Therefore any codec not in the API falls to the wayside. From within the API you can turn on and off support for decoders that are part of the API but not introduce a new one without introducing a separate renderer, just for flac??

So what the hell is ogg there for?? Webstream?? Do many people really use ogg?? Thoughts please. Whilst I understand it being there with FLAC I cannot understand it being there instead of.

OH well going back to play my FLACs on other systems that support it. I have contemplated Serato's overpriced sound cards on a number of occasions but always stop on a reality check regarding FLAC.
serkan 7:12 PM - 10 August, 2011
Quote:

So what the hell is ogg there for?? Webstream?? Do many people really use ogg?? Thoughts please.

I use OGG Vorbis as it is the best lossy codec out there. It outperforms MP3 if used with similar bitrates.

The only reason I use MP3 over OGG Vorbis in SL is that support for album art was implemented (with a workaround) in OGG Vorbis after it was available for SL (ITCH?).
And since then Serato hasn't updated it so there is no album art when using OGG Vorbis.

If SL wasn't the best DVS and ITCH the best software for controllers I would've switched to a competitor loooong time ago.
threeek 11:52 AM - 24 August, 2011
Itch with the NS6 is the product I want to buy, it looks perfect to me and I would definitely choose it over Traktor. However the lack of support for FLAC will prevent me from becoming a Serato customer.

I have a 500GB (and growing) FLAC library. FLAC is the audiophile standard that has been adopted by companies like Linn and B&W, and is the standard lossless format from the online record shops that I buy from. It's completely open source and free to use. I use several other audio applications that have had FLAC support for years. I also encode all of my vinyl to higher bitrate FLAC recordings with a decent cartridge/phono stage/sound card for these reasons.

As FLAC support hasn't appeared in the Itch 2.0 release, clearly there must be a very strong reason for excluding it for this long that Serato's marketing and(/or) engineering department are not prepared to discuss in public.

When I've finished saving up to buy an NS6 in a few months I'll be checking in for FLAC support, but if it's not there I'll simply have to buy Traktor or one of the other alternative offerings instead - I'd rather not have to ;-)
blackavenger 3:30 PM - 24 August, 2011
Quote:
When I've finished saving up to buy an NS6 in a few months I'll be checking in for FLAC support, but if it's not there I'll simply have to buy Traktor or one of the other alternative offerings instead - I'd rather not have to ;-)


Damn shame, isn't it ?

At this point (7 Years) I think we deserve an explanation as to why they REFUSE to support it.
blackavenger 3:45 PM - 24 August, 2011
Though, threek, you could just buy "dBpoweramp Converter", and provided you have a rather powerful Quad Core machine, you would be able to convert 500GB of FLAC to ALAC in under 12 Hours. It has the ability to utilize the 8 threads of a Quad Core Processor, and has Batch Conversion as well.

But I feel you, it shouldn't be necessary!!

Also, I'm not sure if anyone has recognized this or not, but I have noticed that with my FLAC to ALAC conversions, the ALAC files are not only lower in Bitrate, but also Larger in Size (MB), than their FLAC counterparts. FLAC is better across the board, but you've left me no choice!!


Serato, I think Y'all should come clean was to why you continue to ignore our requests for FLAC.
threeek 4:41 PM - 24 August, 2011
It is a shame, definitely. I have dBpoweramp running on a Core i7 box, it's a great piece of software, what with its great FLAC support <cough><cough>

It is a very valid point that you make blackavenger, it's certainly food for thought. I could do a mass conversion on the i7. If I then spend some time writing shell scripts in Linux, I could automate detection of future updates to my flac library, then fire off dBpoweramp under Wine to do the conversion in order to maintain a secondary library in a format that's deemed acceptable to Serato. It would start to feel a lot like my day-job though <yawns> - time that could be better spent mixing :-)

The onus on the customer to plug a longstanding shortcoming in the application really rankles though, especially when it's such a widely supported standard in the audio industry.
blackavenger 4:55 PM - 24 August, 2011
Quote:
It would start to feel a lot like my day-job though <yawns> - time that could be better spent mixing :-)

Quote:
The onus on the customer to plug a longstanding shortcoming in the application really rankles though, especially when it's such a widely supported standard in the audio industry.


Can't agree more :/
billynoah 5:27 PM - 24 August, 2011
Quote:
I suggestion to the owners of Quadcore Machines is that Y'all get dBPowerAmp to convert your files. It takes advantage of the 8 threads of the Quadcore Processor.......resulting in 8 tracks being converted at one time. This saves a hell of a lot of time when converting your library of FLAC files.

www.dbpoweramp.com

I know it's a Windows Application, but for you Mac users out there, just use "Parallels", "VMWare: Fusion", or "Bootcamp".......there is NO Mac equivalent to the power of dBPowerAmp....period!


XLD uses all 8 threads on my machine, does it super fast and its free. So far as I can tell it does everything dBPowerAmp does. on what basis do you make this claim "there is NO Mac equivalent to ... dBPowerAmp'??

also, there's a simple command line utility called "sox" that takes advantage of multicore cpus. works great in os x.

Quote:
Also, I'm not sure if anyone has recognized this or not, but I have noticed that with my FLAC to ALAC conversions, the ALAC files are not only lower in Bitrate, but also Larger in Size (MB), than their FLAC counterparts. FLAC is better across the board, but you've left me no choice!!


maybe you don't understand what "lossless" means. Lossless is lossless regardless of bitrate. a 1411k wav or aiff, is identical to a FLAC or ALAC. you could convert between them infinitely and it would never degrade the bitrate. that's why it's "lossless".

+infinity for flac support. has serato officially responded to this..? why no FLAC in itch 2.0? i tried virtual dj today with the ns7 and it was useable though kinda sucky overall. BUT guess what? it plays FLAC! so does traktor. as well as my cat and dog. i've been transcoding to ALAC for the last year every time i get music and it's a perfectly fine format but why limit our choices? is it truly so difficult to add FLAC support?
billynoah 5:40 PM - 24 August, 2011
dear apple computer,

how comes i can't buy ALAC format music in the iTunes store? I've been writing you here on the serato forum and you never respond! oh well, guess i'll just use flac for dj-ing.. wait i can't! AHHHHH!!!!

it's 2011 going on 2012. hardrive space is cheap. can someone please explain why the heck i would EVER want to play a 128k AAC file?!???? LOL. industry fail. <bangs head against wall>

oh and did i mention i want to play my FLAC music in Itch?
blackavenger 7:24 PM - 24 August, 2011
Quote:
XLD uses all 8 threads on my machine, does it super fast and its free. So far as I can tell it does everything dBPowerAmp does. on what basis do you make this claim "there is NO Mac equivalent to ... dBPowerAmp'??


I wasn't aware of XLD, so my statement was made out of ignorance.

Quote:
maybe you don't understand what "lossless" means. Lossless is lossless regardless of bitrate. a 1411k wav or aiff, is identical to a FLAC or ALAC. you could convert between them infinitely and it would never degrade the bitrate. that's why it's "lossless".


I know what Lossless means, yet I stand by part of my comment.

I'll refer you to a previous post -

serato.com

With all of my FLAC to ALAC transcodes, the ALAC's file size is larger. Since saving Hard Drive space whilst at the same time allowing us more pristine audio is the objective, FLAC still wins out!
The Return of Dj Sparky 7:36 PM - 24 August, 2011
FLAC is never going to happen,

its been requested over 2 years ago for scratch live and nothing,

rumor has it that becuase its an open source format there could be too many problems, i say they just don't want to put the effort in
billynoah 8:02 PM - 24 August, 2011
Quote:

With all of my FLAC to ALAC transcodes, the ALAC's file size is larger. Since saving Hard Drive space whilst at the same time allowing us more pristine audio is the objective, FLAC still wins out!


yes, it's true. my ALAC encodes are on average 2% larger than the FLACs. i was only saying that the bitrate as it's shown is irrelevant since it still plays as a lossless file. but i'm with you on the smaller file size. I 100% support FLAC and I don't see why serato won't do the same.

XLD is great... i can transcode an entire disc from FLAC to ALAC in about 15 seconds.
billynoah 11:33 PM - 31 October, 2011
I made this survery... check it out

www.surveymonkey.com

If you have an opinion about lossless audio support in your DJ software, please take the time to participate. thanks!
djcerla 8:45 AM - 1 November, 2011
Quote:
dear apple computer,

how comes i can't buy ALAC format music in the iTunes store?


This is rumored to come (in 24 bit glory), however, record companies may be the culprit here, in an attempt to segment the market

Quote:
it's 2011 going on 2012. hardrive space is cheap. can someone please explain why the heck i would EVER want to play a 128k AAC file?!???? LOL. industry fail. [b]


ITMS music comes in 256 kbps AAC (roughly equivalent to 320kbps MP3)..
billynoah 8:53 AM - 1 November, 2011
guess it depends on what you buy. i purchased music recently and it was only available as 128k aac from itunes. i opted for the higher bitrate amazon VBRs (V1 encoding i believe). if those tunes were available in flac or alac or any other lossless format apple would have my $ instead. i hope the rumours you heard were true!
djcerla 2:09 PM - 1 November, 2011
Quote:
guess it depends on what you buy. i purchased music recently and it was only available as 128k aac from itunes


mmm... which track specifically?
billynoah 3:31 PM - 1 November, 2011
yeah it was "have a dream" by jah cure and it was approx 5 months ago. i just checked again and now it looks like it's available at 256k. not sure when they changed but that's good to know.
djdsk 7:50 AM - 15 November, 2011
I remember a few years ago someone said it would be here buy the end of the year , is their still no official statement if it will bbe implemented or not ,
Muad_dib77 4:18 PM - 23 December, 2011
I'm not looking forward to copying my entire collection that I've painstakingly ripped into FLAC...just so I can have a lossy copy to use in itch?

What's wrong? why can't we have FLAC in itch?

(expecting delivery of my Twitch controller on the 2nd - WOO!)
phatbob 4:50 PM - 23 December, 2011
Without getting into the debate about flac support, just transcode your flacs to Apple Lossless for use in Itch, Muad_dib77. No lossy encoding and they work beautifully.
Muad_dib77 5:04 PM - 23 December, 2011
Cool - ta. I'll have a look at it.. Hopefully Mediamonkey will be able to do it for me..
Papa Midnight 7:32 PM - 24 December, 2011
Quote:
Without getting into the debate about flac support, just transcode your flacs to Apple Lossless for use in Itch, Muad_dib77. No lossy encoding and they work beautifully.

While this is a legitimate band-aid solution, I'd personally rather not split my collection anymore than it already is (Between MP3's and FLAC's).
serkan 11:31 AM - 25 December, 2011
Quote:

While this is a legitimate band-aid solution, I'd personally rather not split my collection anymore than it already is (Between MP3's and FLAC's).

There is a general thinking in this forums that one lossless codec is the same as the other. Whatever codec you're using (most of the times FLAC because it's the most popular) they suggest to convert to ALAC.
This shows that those people are not using any lossless codec or at least they don't know there is more than one reason to choose a one.
phatbob 11:44 AM - 25 December, 2011
In terms of quality, FLAC and ALAC are the same. They are lossless.

There are many technical, practical and philosophical reasons to choose one lossless codec over another.

This, however is a Serato forum. Serato products support ALAC, not FLAC. That's the only reason I need. Not saying it's better. Saying it WORKS.
blackavenger 2:13 PM - 25 December, 2011
Quote:
In terms of quality, FLAC and ALAC are the same. They are lossless.


Perhaps, but ALAC is larger in size, and saving HDD space IS still a priority. That alone should be enough for Serato to implement it for their customers. But having been in here for as long as I have now, I realize that those idiots (whomever made this decision) over at Serato are NEVER going to give us FLAC support.
kraal 4:13 AM - 26 December, 2011
Quote:

This, however is a Serato forum. Serato products support ALAC, not FLAC. That's the only reason I need. Not saying it's better. Saying it WORKS.

right
serkan 12:07 AM - 27 December, 2011
Quote:

In terms of quality, FLAC and ALAC are the same. They are lossless.

Yes. But FLAC needs less space and has better tagging capabilities.
Quote:

There are many technical, practical and philosophical reasons to choose one lossless codec over another.

That's right.
Quote:

This, however is a Serato forum. Serato products support ALAC, not FLAC.

You think we should ask for FLAC support in ITCH in another forum?
Quote:

That's the only reason I need.

Now we get closer.
I use FLAC in different devices for years. So I have more than one reason to have this request. So I ask for. And sometimes it will come. Or not.
phatbob 12:14 AM - 27 December, 2011
My first post in this thread I said 'not getting into the debate about Flac support'.

My advice was to the poster who wanted a way to keep his files lossless and use them with Itch. That advice, to a Serato user, is to use Appe Lossless.

Flac support has been requested for years in Scratch Live, and it doesn't look like it's coming anytime soon.

By all means ask for the feature, but right now, as things stand, Apple Lossless is the solution to the problem of taggable lossless files in Itch.
phatbob 12:17 AM - 27 December, 2011
Quote:
Not saying it's better. Saying it WORKS.


I honestly don't know how I can make my position any clearer than I did with that statement.
serkan 12:28 AM - 27 December, 2011
OK, I got your point. I'm being honest if I say it wasn't as clear to me.
After all these years I'm getting too emotional with this subject ;)
phatbob 12:41 AM - 27 December, 2011
Cool ;-)

I've got friends with massive libraries of CD rips in Flac. I know what a hassle it is to have to convert yet another time. By all means keep on Serato's case!
kraal 5:01 PM - 29 December, 2011
actually what we need is an answer from serato ... if they are not going to do it . say they are not
serkan 2:05 AM - 30 December, 2011
There are a couple statements in the Feature Suggestions part of the Scratch Live forum by "Glenn M".
serato.com
serato.com
blackavenger 7:19 AM - 30 December, 2011
Quote:
There are a couple statements in the Feature Suggestions part of the Scratch Live forum by "Glenn M".
serato.com
serato.com

You could have at least linked to the actual statements. Not everyone has been following that thread for years like we have......that is a shitload of info to sift through looking for Glenn's comments :)

Here is where the discussion begins in the MASSIVE "codecs" Tread....LOL......

serato.com
kraal 7:32 PM - 30 December, 2011
Ha! No pressure. Well, I just got decoding working on SSL 2.4 for mac, but I still have to wire up...
* Database writing
* Tag reading and writing (overviews, cues, loops etc)
* Make it work on windows. I've done this before, so hopefully it won't take too long.
* Someone has to test the heck out of it.

There is no way this going to make it into SSL 2.4 of ITCH 2.1 --- from serato ... glen m
blackavenger 8:39 PM - 30 December, 2011
Quote:
There is no way this going to make it into SSL 2.4 of ITCH 2.1 --- from serato ... glen m

All I asked for was that it would be implemented for both platforms by 2013.

::crosses fingers, toes, arms::
444729 7:29 AM - 13 January, 2012
what I did is convert it first to mp3's I use this app . osxdaily.com.
Papa Midnight 7:35 AM - 13 January, 2012
The whole point is to not have to convert it. I've already got my library split as it is.
billynoah 7:12 PM - 15 January, 2012
i wonder sometimes if serato is secretly hoping that the digital music world will just give up on FLAC. since serato's products have such a vast user base of professional deejays, their decision to not support FLAC has & will continue to put pressure on users to find alternative codecs and eventually abandon what appears (imo) to be the superior choice simply because it can not be used with their apps.

my question has always been and continues to be, "why not"? i find it hard to believe a business as large & organized as this could make decisions based on "laziness" as some have suggested. neither do i think it likely that implementing FLAC support could be so much of a challenge for a development team with as much resources as they have.

what's really the deal? theories?
Panotaker 8:41 PM - 15 January, 2012
It probably has something to do with iTunes not supporting Flac, and Serato being iTunes friendly.
Papa Midnight 9:33 PM - 15 January, 2012
Quote:
It probably has something to do with iTunes not supporting Flac, and Serato being iTunes friendly.

What has that got to do with those on PC who don't have iTunes installed (like myself)? I'm not sure I get the point as to that statement.
serkan 1:25 AM - 17 January, 2012
Quote:
It probably has something to do with iTunes not supporting Flac, and Serato being iTunes friendly.

If that was the case they never would've put OGG Vorbis support into SL/ITCH.
Agent Orange 3:16 AM - 17 January, 2012
I've seen this discussed a lot on the SSL forums. It has to do with the way/speed some codecs are decoded, especially when dealing with needle dropping and scratching.

Here's an official word from Serato:
serato.com

Gives some excellent perspective into why this isn't simple from a developer's standpoint.
Muad_dib77 12:42 AM - 6 February, 2012
I wasn't able to find any way of converting straight from Flac to the apple format that didn't involve making further investments.

Feeling somewhat bummed out as I didn't expect it to be such an issue.
Having ripped approx 600cds and having about the same amount to go I'm not about to change format...As a """"solution"""" - I'm dedicating a 1tb disc to 320kbps mp3 versions of the same files..

It's nice to learn that there is a technical problem behind FLAC not being supported and it isn't down to politics.
phatbob 12:50 AM - 6 February, 2012
What OS are you on? XLD does a wonderful job on Mac, and it's free. There must be free converters on Windows, surely?
Muad_dib77 1:28 AM - 6 February, 2012
win7 :-\
fmolina 1:40 AM - 15 February, 2012
Please flac files,

traktor using flac, and the best (serato) no, it's a shame
serkan 10:15 PM - 15 February, 2012
Quote:
win7 :-\

I use foobar2000 (best player in the world) + all the plug-ins I need.
I switched to a MacBook Pro over a year ago so it's only on my desktop PC

I really needed some time to get used to iTunes but it doesn't even come close to fb2k which is one of my most missed apps on Mac OS X.
Quote:
Please flac files,

traktor using flac, and the best (serato) no, it's a shame

Do you really have to copy+paste the same statement into every FLAC related thread?
Papa Midnight 12:13 AM - 16 February, 2012
Quote:
I use foobar2000 (best player in the world) + all the plug-ins I need.

I was always a WinAmp person myself (which I personally believe to be the best audio player available to date).

I used to see people go back and forth on both sides back in the early 2000's over WinAmp vs foobar.

I remember one of the common arguments for foobar was that it has a smaller memory footprint. While this may be true, in my experience, foobar balloons quite exponentially once you start adding in plugins such as DSPs and Output Plugins.
fmolina 3:41 PM - 14 April, 2012
Gentlemen, tired of broken promises (flac support), I use Serato, but I got tired of waiting, so, traktor 2.5 is just around the corner ... it's a shame, serano not understand your customers.
Papa Midnight 8:56 PM - 14 April, 2012
Now you might have had a point if you'd mentioned The Bridge (which we were told was coming in 2011) but Serato never promised FLAC support. I'd like it and have requested it as have other users, but it was never promised. Where'd that come from?
redgabber 2:28 PM - 6 June, 2012
No FLAC support ?? i move to Tracktor Pro 2.5
redgabber 3:36 PM - 6 June, 2012
why that ? because AAC is poor quality (bit destruction) compared to FLAC... So it ITCH does not suport FLAC, that mean ITCH is not for professional use.
VJ Justin Allen 6:25 PM - 7 June, 2012
No one asked why...but...as has been stated many times before if FLAC support is the only thing that you think is important, then head on over to a software that supports it.

No sense in being frustrated here.
serkan 9:27 AM - 8 June, 2012
I can't believe I'm saying this but he's right :)

I still love FLAC but I'm happy with Apple Lossless now.
ALAC is compatible with SL, ITCH, iTunes, and Mixed in Key and for some time now free and open source, too. It's just a matter of time until it get's supported by an even wider range of software and hardware.
Just try it. It really get's the work done :)
fmolina 3:16 PM - 26 September, 2012
Happy flac in serato, Ya era hora...