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1.3 Denon Optimization?

DJ MDX 3:58 AM - 15 February, 2005
"We also optimized Scratch LIVE to work with the Denon DN-S3000 CD player."

Can you tell me exactly what this means? Does this mean that it now works flawlessly with the Denon 3K/5K.

If it does and has been proven tested...then this would be the best news I have heard all day.

I have a 17" Powerbook just waiting for the right application. I tested another and well it is just not delivering as advertised.

I am hoping that now SSL can deliver what was advertised as well with CD TT's.

Please say it's so.

Thanks in advance.
DJ MDX 12:59 PM - 15 February, 2005
Anyone?
Brandon Fisher (BLF DJ Supply) 4:43 PM - 15 February, 2005
MDX,
I am sure the fix is there but I will see if I can set up a test in Vegas.
Supagee 7:08 PM - 15 February, 2005
i will give a run for it's money on thursday
AGIPRO 8:14 PM - 15 February, 2005
Hey MDX,

I just ran a quick test with the 5K on my new 1.5 GHz G4 PowerBook and I was HIGHLY impressed. I can say with confidence that it worked almost flawlessly. Now, keep in mind that I am running a way faster computer than when I did my first series of tests on CD TT. As far as first impressions go I don't think 1.3 could have been better. I will be doing another full out series of bench test again with all major brand CD TT. I will keep you posted.

~ J.
Silence 8:30 PM - 15 February, 2005
Quote:
"We also optimized Scratch LIVE to work with the Denon DN-S3000 CD player."

Can you tell me exactly what this means? Does this mean that it now works flawlessly with the Denon 3K/5K.

If it does and has been proven tested...then this would be the best news I have heard all day.

I have a 17" Powerbook just waiting for the right application. I tested another and well it is just not delivering as advertised.

I am hoping that now SSL can deliver what was advertised as well with CD TT's.

Please say it's so.

Thanks in advance.


This is really good news.
Serato, Forum Moderator
Sam 11:18 PM - 15 February, 2005
Quote:
I will be doing another full out series of bench test again with all major brand CD TT. I will keep you posted.

J, we are very keen to see your results. We have been in contact with most of the CD player manufacturers (or their New Zealand representatives) and they are all willing to lend us gear to help us improve performance with the different models.
It will be much more efficient and effective for us to address specific issues, than spend precious development hours mixing on them (much as we'd like to do this ;) trying to find problems.
Keep us posted.
Supagee 11:44 PM - 15 February, 2005
word
DJ MDX 12:08 AM - 16 February, 2005
I see all my old friends have answered some of my questions..thanks guys.
DJ MDX 12:14 AM - 16 February, 2005
Rane/Mod/Support:

I am interested what you have to say about the above quote. What does that exactly mean and what did you guys find was the issue.

I have to be honest here. I dont want to buy something and then it not work as stated/advertised.

Are there still limitations or is it fully funtional to what SSL has advertised.

Thanks again guys just want to make an informed decision.
DJ MDX 12:16 AM - 16 February, 2005
Oh, and J. what can I say...we will both know the truth soon from both sides of the fence.....lol

Thanks for your help on a personal note.
AGIPRO 12:41 AM - 16 February, 2005
OK, I've cleared some time to run this test tomorrow for everybody. I will be testing the following units with 1.3 on a 2 day old 1.5 GHz G4 powerbook: CDJ1000, CDJ800, DN-S5000, DN-S3000, DN-S1000 and the CDX. I will post my finding as soon as I have tested all units thoroughly. I will also be running the same tests on the Sony Vaio that I used to conduct my last tests. This will determine what improvements are due to increased processor speed and what improvement are due to the new 1.3 optimizing.

For those of you who have not read my first review for comparison it can be found here:

www.scratchlive.net

Cheers,

J~
AGIPRO 12:42 AM - 16 February, 2005
Quote:
Oh, and J. what can I say...we will both know the truth soon from both sides of the fence.....lol

Thanks for your help on a personal note.


True, true ... lol
skinnyguy 1:45 AM - 16 February, 2005
agipro - hurry! i can't wait!
AGIPRO 12:08 AM - 17 February, 2005
Quote:
agipro - hurry! i can't wait!


Hey Skinny,

Good to see you! The Mac tests are done and I will be finishing up the PC's tomorrow morning. I should have them both up by tomorrow afternoon.
DJ MDX 6:16 PM - 17 February, 2005
Nice, cant wait to hear the scoop!
dj synystr 9:58 PM - 17 February, 2005
r u only concerd about the dennons? what issues did SSL have with the Dennons , sorry i dont have them nor use them so don;t know. i use CDJ 1000's and the only thing i find is the pause/stop button sounding like a brake on a TT
nik39 10:10 PM - 17 February, 2005
dj synsystr, is the brake thing on the CDJs not resolved yet? It should be with the latest 1.3.
dj synystr 10:13 PM - 17 February, 2005
nah its not they said they didnt get it on this one but it will be on the next. honestly it doesnt bother me much.
Supagee 10:19 PM - 17 February, 2005
with the denon's there was an issue with the moving platter and the machine buffering the track and the way it responded to ssl. quick scratching made the track jump as well some of the denon controls didn't react with ssl like it does with say 12"
nik39 10:22 PM - 17 February, 2005
Supagee, are these problems solved with 1.3?
dj synystr 11:10 PM - 17 February, 2005
thanks.
AGIPRO 11:19 PM - 17 February, 2005
Quote:
Supagee, are these problems solved with 1.3?


I bench tested a CDJ 1000 MKII on V 1.2 and V 1.3 on the same system, a P4 1.6 GHz PC w/ 256K Ram and a 40G hard drive. Hitting stop/pause created a brake(power down sound) on V 1.2 but was completely gone on 1.3

I am waiting for a CDX but my complete reveiw of 1.3 on every major CD TT should be up soon.

cheers~

J.
Supagee 12:16 AM - 18 February, 2005
the problems are supposed to be resolved with 1.3 i will know tonight when i work the crap out of it
nik39 12:41 AM - 18 February, 2005
I am a bit confused, AGIPRO is saying issues are resolved with 1.3, dj synystr says the opposite. Did I miss anything?
DJ MDX 12:53 AM - 18 February, 2005
And the suspense continues..........lol
dj synystr 12:53 AM - 18 February, 2005
my issue is with a CDJ 1000 sorry i didnt mean to confuse the thread i just didnt knwo the issues the dennons had and wanted to know in case i ever used them.
nik39 1:07 AM - 18 February, 2005
synystr, AGIPRO is also talking about the CDJ 1000 :) Now you really confused the thread ;)
Detroitbootybass 1:08 AM - 18 February, 2005
Quote:
synystr, AGIPRO is also talking about the CDJ 1000 :) Now you really confused the thread ;)


LOL
DJ MDX 3:32 AM - 18 February, 2005
AGIPRO has only posted his findings (on the above post) for the Pioneer CDJ-1000. He said that the powerdown sound problems that were found b4 on 1.2 are now gone on 1.3 per his bench test on the PC.

I think he wants to completely test all the CD TT's b4 he reveals his findings.

Should be very interesting.

Dont worry J.....I wont steal your fire......lol

But do stay tuned guys, he has some very interesting findings ;)

Thanks J. for taking all the time to run all the bench tests.
AGIPRO 6:42 PM - 18 February, 2005
Quote:
AGIPRO has only posted his findings (on the above post) for the Pioneer CDJ-1000. He said that the powerdown sound problems that were found b4 on 1.2 are now gone on 1.3 per his bench test on the PC.

I think he wants to completely test all the CD TT's b4 he reveals his findings.

Should be very interesting.

Dont worry J.....I wont steal your fire......lol

But do stay tuned guys, he has some very interesting findings ;)

Thanks J. for taking all the time to run all the bench tests.


lol ... take the fire and run baby! You'll save my a** a lot of typing. :D

No worries on the tests, it's my pleasure.
Supagee 7:07 PM - 18 February, 2005
i can tell you from last night that they have done some work to improving the relationship with the denon's and ssl.

the shifting and the braking problems i was having in 1.2 have been greatly improved.

However i have found that there is still a glitch or delay when hitting the play button to get the track rolling along.I also found that when you use the platter after hitting play to release the record was alot more accurate but still on the initial first scratch or two there was a small hiccup but reacted better after that.
Some fine tuning still needs to be done to get rid of that.
AGIPRO 10:52 PM - 18 February, 2005
Hey Everybody! Here's a cut and past of the review I just posted on the un-official board.

In an attemt to help our CD TT friends I have ran a series of bench test on the following units : Pioneer CDJ 1000 MKII, CDJ 800, Denon DN-S1000, 3000 & 5000 using the new version 1.3

As many of you may already know (or have read) I ran this test on the last version 1.2. You can read that test and it's findings here

The purpose of these bench tests is to determine weather or not CD functionalilty has been improved with 1.3 as indicated By the Serato press release - quote "We also optimized Scratch LIVE to work with the Denon DN-S3000 CD player. Please let us know if these changes had improved performance with this model."

To be thorough I used the exact same models (players) as in the 1.2 tests as well as the same PC with a 1.6 P4, 256 MB RAM & 40 G hard drive. However, to test how processor performance influences Serato performance I also conducted a comparison between the PC and a Powerbook G4 1.5 GHz w/ 512 MB RAM and a 60G HD; both using v. 1.3

Here is what I found:

Note: All units in a family performed the same, so I will be refering to manufacturer as opposed to specific units.

First, let's look at player performance. As seen in the first test (1.2) the Pioneers experienced a powerdown or slow brake sound when hitting pause or stop. Also, using the hot cues or the loop function created slight audio "pops/ clicks". Otherwise the Pioneers performed very well with Serato.
What has improved in 1.3? A lot! The powerdown/ brake sound is totally gone. It now stops on a dime! In addition, the hot cues as well as the loop function work perfectly. I put this to test on both the PC as well as the powerbook. Though the powerbook was a little more peppy with track loading and the like they performed pretty closely. I can say that with the Pioneers Serato truely did optimize and improve there product in 1.3

Now to the Denon's. As we saw in the first test the Denon's struggled with most of the bugs. Scratching fast or doing scribbles caused the wave to jump. Not only was it visible but very audible as well. In addition, doing quick pause/starts/pause movements or backspins would create the same result. Has this been improved with 1.3? A little. I tested 1.2 to 1.3 back to back on the PC and there was a little improvement, but not much. All the above glitches are still present. I again tested my PC findings to my Mac to quantify my results. Again, there was no difference in 1.3 performance in relation to the glitches.

So, has Serato 1.3 been optimized to perform better with the Denon 3000 as stated? From my experience Serato 1.3 has been more improved/ optimized with the Pioneer family. As a matter of fact, the Pioneers worked flawlessly with v. 1.3. Unfortunately I cannot say the same about the Denon family. I can say with confidence that once the Denon's work as well as the Pioneers w/ Serato there are going to be some very excited 3K/5K owners out there.

I hope this helps. Take from these tests what you can and feel free to IM me with any questions.

cheers~

j.
Supagee 11:35 PM - 18 February, 2005
looks like jason and i agree on the output of 1.3 with the denon's
DJ MDX 12:10 AM - 19 February, 2005
Thanks for that helpful insight J.

(To: Rane/SSL)
Again, I pose this question, as I did b4. What did you guys do to optimize and what were the problems you guys found with the Denon Family. I am talking to the Serato/Rane OEM Support. Is it the way they have different buffering methods that causes some of the issues.

I really hope these issues can be resolved. This is the only thing that keeps me from jumping aboard, Other wise it would be too large of an investment to change....maybe ;)

Well, I am going to be able to test SSL for my self in a week or so and hopefully these "bugs" will manageable until (I am confident) SSL will make the much anticipated corrections.

If so my buddy J.will hook me up with SSL....lol
skinnyguy 8:28 AM - 19 February, 2005
aw crap =(
DJ MDX 7:30 PM - 19 February, 2005
Huh? Still no answer?
Detroitbootybass 8:06 PM - 19 February, 2005
Quote:
Huh? Still no answer?


Dude... what day is it? Saturday here for us - Sunday in New Zealand (where Serato is). They are not in the office today. Most likely they are with their families and loved ones.

Chill...
Prime-X 8:28 PM - 19 February, 2005
I have a Denon DN-S5000 too and I did not notice any change too. As a matter of fact my crashes more than v1.2 before. SSL will crash/frooze but the music still goes on...I hate that. I'm using 2.8ghz pentium 4, 1gb memory, 60gb HD, 250gb HD Ext., everything should be fine right? My buffer setting use to be 5 but now I have to increase for it not to crash...THAT SUCKS! I'm not mad but more like dissapointed.
nik39 8:38 PM - 19 February, 2005
Prime-X, I doubt the crashes have anything to do with you DN player. Besides that this is the first I am reading you are having bad crashes, IIRC. It would be a pretty dope idea to either contact Serato's support or start a new thread here with DETAILED description what happens when with what, if you expect some help.
Supagee 9:02 PM - 19 February, 2005
ya no way does the denon player have to do with this problem.

there are just a slight (and i mean slight) delay in pressing the play button and when using scratch disk to scratch
DJ MDX 5:39 AM - 20 February, 2005
Quote:
Quote:
Huh? Still no answer?


Dude... what day is it? Saturday here for us - Sunday in New Zealand (where Serato is). They are not in the office today. Most likely they are with their families and loved ones.

Chill...



Dude.... I think you are the one that needs to chill and read this entire post. I was the one that started it and asked this question in the original thread starter back on the 14th of February and I think it now being the 19th that would have alloted enough time for a response from them. Dont you think so?

All I am asking is what SSL released in their 1.3 Public Preview (go back to the 1st post on this thread) I think that is a fair question.

Let me clear something up.

I dont use TT's anymore.
I am strictly CD's.
I use DN-S5000's.
I just bought a 17" PB.

So, with all that in mind I am looking for something to combine all of these together. I have been following SSL since its inception and since then it has not worked seemlessly with the Denon DN-S5000 or the DN-S3000. I am ready to make an investment but dont want to if it will not work with what I have. So this way I dont waste anyones time or my own on returns.

I am confident that with Rane/SSL's reputation they will get it worked out. But until then, I dont want to make a move toward dissappointment on a product that will not work for "me."

I hope you now understand my concern and why I ask again.

I just want to make an informed decision. I feel I have already made one mistake and I dont want to make another one.

Respectfully,
DJ MDX
DJ Dynamight 8:33 AM - 20 February, 2005
I just finished doing a gig with my S5000s and SSL. I experienced a lot of hiccups while the buffer was at 10 (e.g. there were pops while doing baby scratches, also some slippage), but once I dropped it down to 2, there was a huge improvement in response to fast movments of the scratch disc and overall performance. (this was on my IBM T23, 1.2GHz)
Slim B 3:19 PM - 21 February, 2005
The last few gigs I've had with my 5ks have been almost flawless..The 1 drop out I had was do to a bad mp3....But other than that nothing....System---2-5ks,Tascam X17mixer,gateway 1.6gig-512m-60gbhd-pentium M (R&B,Reggae,Rap,OS House)
AGIPRO 7:01 PM - 21 February, 2005
I have all the confidence in the world that the Serato team will ultimately find the right solution for the Denon units. There level of support and there presence on this and the un-official board are a testement to there commitment. As we all no that is not necessarily the case with all manufactureres.
Supagee 7:51 PM - 21 February, 2005
you are so right jason

i believe in them fully
AGIPRO 10:53 PM - 21 February, 2005
Quote:
you are so right jason

i believe in them fully


This is Justin, but thanks none the less.
Supagee 2:46 AM - 22 February, 2005
sorry bro that is what i meant
AGIPRO 11:39 PM - 22 February, 2005
Quote:
sorry bro that is what i meant


No worries, it happens all the time.
Supagee 11:53 PM - 22 February, 2005
suprized that serato has not really made any comments on this topic recently
DJ MDX 12:18 AM - 23 February, 2005
Quote:
suprized that serato has not really made any comments on this topic recently



You Too?

Me Too!

Nothing at all, and they were the ones I was asking.

However, I do appreciate everyone else's replies.
AGIPRO 7:35 PM - 23 February, 2005
Maybe they are working on a solution for you MDX.
DJ MDX 12:34 AM - 24 February, 2005
Quote:
Maybe they are working on a solution for you MDX.



Good one! And I hope so...... ;)

But it only take 5 seconds to respond......lol
Serato
Josh 12:42 AM - 24 February, 2005
5 seconds to post nothing maybe, alot longer to make a definitive response to a complex bunch of issues...

anyway, it's coming.
bartaug 7:20 AM - 24 February, 2005
Don't make the competition to wise though :-)
Supagee 11:06 AM - 24 February, 2005
josh should have just said "IT'S COMING"
DJ MDX 10:54 PM - 24 February, 2005
Quote:
5 seconds to post nothing maybe, alot longer to make a definitive response to a complex bunch of issues...

anyway, it's coming.


Thank you,

Something as simple as that would have sufficed.
Serato, Forum Moderator
Sam 5:05 AM - 25 February, 2005
Hi all, sorry for the delay.

Some time ago, people reported problems with some of the Denon CD players. We got hold of one, and did some tests of our own. We found that with the Denon unit we tested, the audio output was not correct in certain situations. For example, when you hit pause, it does not stop immediately, it ramps down to a stop. This means that when the audio stops, you are slightly later in the track than when you hit the pause button. However, when you hit play again, it resumes from the point where you actually hit the pause button (And not where it actually stopped).

Scratch LIVE works by interpreting the audio coming into the hardware interface. So when the Denon behaves in this odd way, the software tries to follow, and this causes a skip after the audio resumes when we figure out the new location. We were able to compensate for the inconsistent signal produced by the Denon which 'fixes' the double-start that some people were complaining about. From what AGIPRO (Justin) has reported, this has been improved, but not completely eliminated. Unfortunately, there is only so much we can do with the signal we are getting – you know the saying: "Garbage in, garbage out".

Justin also describes another problem where scratching could result in a jump. Again, this is caused by the poor approximation to scratching that has been implemented in their CD player, rather than anything that Scratch LIVE is doing. This should be fairly obvious from the simple fact that Scratch LIVE replicates scratching movements perfectly when using vinyl as the source. If you want a perfect vinyl emulation, your best option is to use real vinyl. Unfortunately, there wasn't much we could do about this behaviour, and from what Justin has reported, there hasn't been much improvement there.

DJ MDX, your question "Does this mean that it now works flawlessly with the Denon 3K/5K" has more than one answer. Scratch LIVE does exactly what the Denon 3K or 5K tells it to do. However, I think what you really want to know is "Will Scratch LIVE work in exactly the same way as an audio CD seems to work in the Denon?". From what users have told us, the answer is no.

This is not because of any failure on the part of Scratch LIVE. However, rather than leave it at that, we will study how this CD players output audio, and attempt to compensate for any inconsistencies we find. We make no guarantees, but we still think we can make some improvements. There is always the possibility, of course, that Denon fixes the problems with their CD turntables, however given that the problems are unnoticeable in normal use (ie without Scratch LIVE) I wouldn't hold my breath. It is possible that Denon are not even aware that their hardware produces incorrect results.

As for the Pioneers CD turntables, we have not done anything to compensate for any problems in its output, because we are unaware of any problems with these decks. However, a change we made which addresses the issue of scratch LIVE sounding like a turntable breaking when a CD player suddenly stops applies to all CD players including the Pioneers. We have also done a lot of work on the core of Scratch LIVE – making it faster, more robust and more responsive. These benefits apply equally to DJs who use vinyl, and DJs who use CD players. Justin's experience of optimization for the CDJs was a result of version 1.3 being much better 'under the hood' than previous versions ever were.
Revolutionary 10:32 AM - 25 February, 2005
Thanks for the in-depth information, Sam :)
DJ Dynamight 2:41 PM - 25 February, 2005
Word.
Supagee 5:08 PM - 25 February, 2005
ya thanks, i must say i do love the use of turntables over the denons with SSL. The improvements do let you get through things alot better.
nik39 6:41 PM - 25 February, 2005
Does anyone know how Denons work with FS1/2?
s42000 7:23 PM - 25 February, 2005
werd ...

Mama said stay off them CD things ... vinyl is the way to go.

Rane/Serato, in an attempt to fix DC problems. please do not break anything for us vinyl folk.

I would bet majority of the people here use vinyl. In one man's great words .... vinyl will never die.
AGIPRO 7:46 PM - 25 February, 2005
Wow - awesome post Sam!

So, let me reiterate what I am hearing from you. You are saying that Serato works perfectly and that there is a problem with the Denon players (thus the quotes: "fix their player" "their hardware produces incorrect results" and "Garbage in, garbage out"). Is this correct? If so, what exactly is it that the Denon's are doing? Why are the Pioneers better? I know there are users of both present on this board who would love this information. The more detail the better.

Thanks Sam!
AGIPRO 7:49 PM - 25 February, 2005
Quote:
Does anyone know how Denons work with FS1/2?


They don't. No CD TT work with FSII for that matter. The fix is "in it's final stages of Beta testing".
nik39 8:05 PM - 25 February, 2005
AGIPRO, AFAIK they work to some extent. Cueing doesnt work correctly, I was wondering, (besides that mentioned bug) if FS2 works fine with Denons.

BTW, I always thought Denon equipment is nice stuff.
AGIPRO 8:43 PM - 25 February, 2005
Quote:
AGIPRO, AFAIK they work to some extent. Cueing doesnt work correctly, I was wondering, (besides that mentioned bug) if FS2 works fine with Denons.

BTW, I always thought Denon equipment is nice stuff.


I guess it depends on your definition of "works". It I can't cue a track it doesn't work for me.
Revolutionary 9:01 PM - 25 February, 2005
Quote:
Mama said stay off them CD things ... vinyl is the way to go.

I thought regular moms would say "stop breaking my needles and get a CD player for that", but I guess your mom is a bit out of the ordinary ;)
skinnyguy 9:37 PM - 25 February, 2005
i think that it's in the skratch algorhythm of the denon players. i still feel that pioneer has a closer sound than denon, and because of that, is able to have less "glitching" as with using actual vinyl. i think that it's the threshholdpoint where the denon unit has to choose whether the unit is "skratching" or just playing is where it sounds "digital" and causes the jump. either that or because of some kinda "lag" between their response between their software and the hardware interface...
s42000 9:48 PM - 25 February, 2005
Quote:
Quote:
Mama said stay off them CD things ... vinyl is the way to go.

I thought regular moms would say "stop breaking my needles and get a CD player for that", but I guess your mom is a bit out of the ordinary ;)



"MAMA is Old School"
nik39 12:09 AM - 26 February, 2005
Quote:
They don't. No CD TT work with FSII for that matter. The fix is "in it's final stages of Beta testing".

They have just released the update. You got any info if the problem has really been fixed, plus ... (you surely sell FS2 as well) how do the Denons work with the "fixed" (haha ;) ) FS2?
DJ MDX 5:01 AM - 26 February, 2005
Quote:
....DJ MDX, your question "Does this mean that it now works flawlessly with the Denon 3K/5K" has more than one answer. Scratch LIVE does exactly what the Denon 3K or 5K tells it to do. However, I think what you really want to know is "Will Scratch LIVE work in exactly the same way as an audio CD seems to work in the Denon?". From what users have told us, the answer is no.

This is not because of any failure on the part of Scratch LIVE. However, rather than leave it at that, we will study how this CD players output audio, and attempt to compensate for any inconsistencies we find. We make no guarantees, but we still think we can make some improvements. There is always the possibility, of course, that Denon fixes the problems with their CD turntables, however given that the problems are unnoticeable in normal use (ie without Scratch LIVE) I wouldn't hold my breath. It is possible that Denon are not even aware that their hardware produces incorrect results..


Thank you very much for that indepth descrption of the problem at hand.

I now have SSL in hand and am going to try it myself to see if these problems are acceptable during playback.

Some of my concerns were exactly as you stated. "Will Scratch LIVE work in exactly the same way as an audio CD seems to work in the Denon?". Mainly in question for me are the Cue Stutters, Hot Starts,Loops & Back spin to play. If these are on point then the rest is acceptable.

Again I would like to thank you for your response...this was all I was asking.

These are all very interesting points you make. I bet someone will not be very happy with this conclusion....lol....but so is life!
DJ MDX 5:14 AM - 26 February, 2005
Quote:
Quote:
They don't. No CD TT work with FSII for that matter. The fix is "in it's final stages of Beta testing".

They have just released the update. You got any info if the problem has really been fixed, plus ... (you surely sell FS2 as well) how do the Denons work with the "fixed" (haha ;) ) FS2?


I also have FS2 in hand to test and Yes the CD issue has been corrected. I am putting it through all the phases as I type and next will be SSL.

I just want to clear something up before hand, I am not here to bash anyones products....but I will give constructive ctitisizm where IMO it is needed. This is the only way products will get better for "us" the DJ's.

I applaud SSL for all the responses they give and assistance on this board....that is one major thing your competition "still" has not learned.

I have always tried to be fare and as objective as possible. You would know this if you knew me and visit my site www.prodjforums.com We have always been "Pro DJ and not PRO-OEM" and I think that helps us to be as objective as possible.

Ok, so on to the testing.....lol

Respectfully,
DJ MDX
AGIPRO 9:46 PM - 28 February, 2005
Quote:
They have just released the update. You got any info if the problem has really been fixed, plus ... (you surely sell FS2 as well) how do the Denons work with the "fixed" (haha ;) ) FS2?


No, we do not currently carry Stanton products. We are waiting to see how there 2.6 fairs and what there support looks like. So far the jury is still out. Check it: www.native-instruments.com
Revolutionary 9:56 PM - 28 February, 2005
Quote:
Ohh goodie get ready everyone the next bug fix will be available Feb of 2007

LOL...
s42000 10:05 PM - 28 February, 2005
Quote:
Quote:
Ohh goodie get ready everyone the next bug fix will be available Feb of 2007

LOL...


And it will be called FS3 ....
Revolutionary 10:09 PM - 28 February, 2005
More like FS10000...
Revolutionary 10:09 PM - 28 February, 2005
And that is not going to happen in 2007...
s42000 10:09 PM - 28 February, 2005
Quote:
Quote:
Ohh goodie get ready everyone the next bug fix will be available Feb of 2007

LOL...


And it will be called FS3 ....
DJ MDX 3:34 AM - 1 March, 2005
I tell you what guys I have both SSL and FS2 in hand and I am not experiencing any problems with FS2 but I am experiencing many with SSL.

SSL problems are audio drops,crashes,freezes,usb drops,usb driver fall out after a reboot & had to reinstall, bad audio after a 1.5 minutes of play.

I am also using an external AC powersupply to help if is a usb power problem but same results....this happens on both CD's and vinyl with 1.3 on a PC.

Specs:
XP Pro w/SP2
P4 1.8
768 Ram

I am doing a lot of trouble shooting to make sure it is not "user error" since I am new to this.

Any suggestions anyone can give are welcomed.

I am upgrading my Power Book right now so I wont have it until a week from now to test on.

Thanks in advance for anyones suggestions.

DJ MDX
Peeti-V 4:03 AM - 1 March, 2005
did you do the xp tweaks? but you are having a lot of problems and some I have never heard about happening about b4 like the driver thing man-besides a bad mp3 all of my problems have been associated with my program and not ssl! you know me MDX and you know that I have no problem telling the truth about products I use even if it is bad experience man
skutch 6:56 AM - 1 March, 2005
did ssl work on your powerbook before you sent it in?

for the record--i leave on all kinds of apps/airport/ichat/safari etc and it works fine for me.
PB 1.33
skinnyguy 7:41 AM - 1 March, 2005
i use s5k's and i finally installed 1.3. it's working pretty good for me. the denon's hotstarts work pretty good...better if the hotstart point is nearby. when looping using the denon's hotstart keys, i've only done 4-count loops so far and they turn out pretty good. i don't always get a "pop". the cue point "glitch" is still there, but not as bad now. i also moved my usb setting down so maybe that helped a bit as well.
DJ MDX 1:43 PM - 1 March, 2005
Quote:
did you do the xp tweaks? but you are having a lot of problems and some I have never heard about happening about b4 like the driver thing man-besides a bad mp3 all of my problems have been associated with my program and not ssl! you know me MDX and you know that I have no problem telling the truth about products I use even if it is bad experience man


I have not tried those yet, I will give it a try this afternoon to see if that helps.

About the USB drop out, I dont know what happened I installed everything one night and then when I was ready to turn in I powered everything down and the next moring the new hardware wizard came up for the SSL SA...I ignored it but SSL said hardware not connected. So then I proceeded to install the driver again.

I knwow the mp3's are not corrupt so that is not the problem. It could be a setting problem but that is why I am trying a lot of different things out.

The biggest thing is when it starts to have problems all the problems up above happen all at the same time.

1st - the audio sounds like it is under water.
2nd - the red usb light comes on and off.
3rd - the wave display freezes
4th - the entire proggy is frozen

I have to do a hard reboot in order to do anything again.

I will probably blow out my PC this afternoon and start with a fresh install and see how that works out.

btw, Petti-V you also know me and you know that thier is no BS to me. I am a pretty patient and fare person and I also call it like it is.

Peace Brotha
DJ MDX 1:46 PM - 1 March, 2005
Quote:
did ssl work on your powerbook before you sent it in?

for the record--i leave on all kinds of apps/airport/ichat/safari etc and it works fine for me.
PB 1.33


Unfortunetly, I did not get a chance to install it b4 I did the upgrade but I will when I get it back and report my findings.

That is nice to hear about apps in the background...I really dont want to dedicate my Power Book to one app.
SpinThis! 2:45 PM - 1 March, 2005
Quote:
1st - the audio sounds like it is under water.

this is usually caused by dust on the needle or dirty records so make sure everything is clean.

what does the tracking indicator at this point indicate?
SpinThis! 2:48 PM - 1 March, 2005
ooops hit the post button early. since you're using cd's, that leaves either a dirty signal path (pitch compensation should be off) or a windows problem. i'd go with the latter...
nik39 2:52 PM - 1 March, 2005
Quote:
I powered everything down and the next moring the new hardware wizard came up for the SSL SA...I ignored it but SSL said hardware not connected. So then I proceeded to install the driver again.

Okay, there is a problem with Windows XP SP2, sometimes after a restart, the SSL amp is not detected correctly. Usually disconnecting and reconnecting the SSL device resolves it. That issue is being worked on.

Plus, if you attach your SSL amp to a different USB port it will ask for the drivers again, AFAIK thats a windows issue.

Quote:
The biggest thing is when it starts to have problems all the problems up above happen all at the same time.

1st - the audio sounds like it is under water.
2nd - the red usb light comes on and off.
3rd - the wave display freezes
4th - the entire proggy is frozen

I am a former FS user, and dont mind that question, the problems you mention, are you talking about FS or SSL? And having some more details would be nice:
* which SP?
* power saving options? all off in BIOS and windows esp. on the USB ports?
* SSL directly or via hub?
* any other devices on that USB device?
* how does the calibration look?
* why are you so sure your mp3s are not faulty? Just because they play fine in winamp or even FS doesnt mean they comply 100% to the mp3 standard.

Anything I forgot?
Computer DJ Summit 3:52 PM - 1 March, 2005
Quote:
Okay, there is a problem with Windows XP SP2


I have still avoided this SP
DJ MDX 4:10 PM - 1 March, 2005
Quote:
Quote:
1st - the audio sounds like it is under water.

this is usually caused by dust on the needle or dirty records so make sure everything is clean.

what does the tracking indicator at this point indicate?


Thanks I will try that when I get home but I am pretty sure everything was clean..but you never know...it does not hurt to make sure.
DJ MDX 4:34 PM - 1 March, 2005
Quote:
Quote:
I powered everything down and the next moring the new hardware wizard came up for the SSL SA...I ignored it but SSL said hardware not connected. So then I proceeded to install the driver again.

Okay, there is a problem with Windows XP SP2, sometimes after a restart, the SSL amp is not detected correctly. Usually disconnecting and reconnecting the SSL device resolves it. That issue is being worked on.

Plus, if you attach your SSL amp to a different USB port it will ask for the drivers again, AFAIK thats a windows issue.

Quote:
The biggest thing is when it starts to have problems all the problems up above happen all at the same time.

1st - the audio sounds like it is under water.
2nd - the red usb light comes on and off.
3rd - the wave display freezes
4th - the entire proggy is frozen

I am a former FS user, and dont mind that question, the problems you mention, are you talking about FS or SSL? And having some more details would be nice:
* which SP?
* power saving options? all off in BIOS and windows esp. on the USB ports?
* SSL directly or via hub?
* any other devices on that USB device?
* how does the calibration look?
* why are you so sure your mp3s are not faulty? Just because they play fine in winamp or even FS doesnt mean they comply 100% to the mp3 standard.

Anything I forgot?


1. You know now that you mention that about the usb port I think I did attach it to a different port

2. I am talking about SSL with the above problems. I am not having any problems at the moment with FS2 it is pretty solid.

3. SP 2.

4. I will have to check the power options when I get home.

5. SSL hooked up direct, no hub.

6. no other devices on that port.

7. dont remember but can let you know when I get home.

8. Well you could be right here...but I dont use P2P mp3's I rip all my mp3's straight from the source I purchased and all via iTunes. I would find it very hard to believe that my entire collection is corrupt. I did try many mp3's and they exibited the same response.

If you can recommend a program that I can scan an mp3 to make sure it is not corrupt, I'd be more than happy to apply it to the formula.

Thanks again for all you suggestions.

DJ MDX
dbandit 4:40 PM - 1 March, 2005
I must admit after reading this post I think I'm about to exchange my SSL for FS2. I actually posted a concern about this in the help forum. I would truly like to have the ability to use both Turntable and CD flawlessly. I'm glad the moderators have given a full description of the the problem. I doubt denon will fix this problem (if it truly is an issue with the players).

Maybe a solution would be to have an option to put the SSL in CD mode whereby it compensates for the CD player issues that the vinyl will not have basically because is the raw manual playing device (direct timecode to computer) ie. correct me if I'm wrong but I believe the way the denons work is that they load the song into the hard drive/cache so as to have fast response and non skipping issues. So knowing the way the CD players work have something on the interface to change the mode so the software compensates.

I'm mainly a CD DJ and need this to work properly. Note: It did not work well with FS 1-1.5 and I was frustrated. So far in this post it seems like it works better with FS 2.

Don't mean to stress out the moderators because I know the same issues keep popping up. However I would like to figure out which software I will use.

MDX...I believe used to be registered in your forum a while back and noticed I no longer am...was there a change made to cause that? Let me know

Bandit
s42000 5:55 PM - 1 March, 2005
DJ MDX ... just curious ..

How is
Quote:
XP XP Pro w/SP2
P4 1.8
running on a
Quote:
Power Book
?
DJ MDX 6:09 PM - 1 March, 2005
Quote:
MDX...I believe used to be registered in your forum a while back and noticed I no longer am...was there a change made to cause that? Let me know

Bandit


What name were you registered under I will check to see.

And was it under www.prodjforums.com or the older www.clubmegamix.com

I did a data base tranfer and that could have dropped you but if it did and I can not find you, all you have to do is register again.

Let me know and I will help as much as I can.
DJ MDX 6:12 PM - 1 March, 2005
Quote:
DJ MDX ... just curious ..

How is
Quote:
XP XP Pro w/SP2
P4 1.8
running on a
Quote:
Power Book
?


Sorry, I did not understand that question.

Could you please rephrase it?
s42000 7:10 PM - 1 March, 2005
You mention a Power Book with XP Pro .... Aren't powerbooks macs ?
nik39 11:03 PM - 1 March, 2005
Quote:
I must admit after reading this post I think I'm about to exchange my SSL for FS2. I actually posted a concern about this in the help forum. I would truly like to have the ability to use both Turntable and CD flawlessly. I'm glad the moderators have given a full description of the the problem. I doubt denon will fix this problem (if it truly is an issue with the players).

dbandit, you read that NI made the whole (ALL cd decks) only properly work with the latest fix, they left customers waiting since November which is like at least three months. Besidest that, it has been thoroughly explained why the Denons make problems, this is not an SSL flaw, therefore also other equipment will suffer from this problem (unless they are specially tweaked for Denon usage), which also applies to FS2. Have fun with FS2, but you know youve been warned. :-)
skinnyguy 11:05 PM - 1 March, 2005
i finally upgraded to 1.3 and i use denon s5k's.

the looping using the s5k works for me. i've only made 4-count loops, but yea, they usually work. other times i have a pop, but other times i don't.

when using a hotstart as a stutter, it tends to work better when not much time has elapsed betweeen the hotstart and the current point...sometimes it feels like it lags.

the cue glitch is still there, but it feels a bit better now. and i've only recently moved the usb buffer to 5.

my comp specs are under the laptop specs post here:
www.scratchlive.net
djkenace 11:11 PM - 1 March, 2005
Just wanted to put my 2 cents in that 1.3 works way better with the Pioneer DVD-J than 1.2. The hot starts no longer have a lag and the braking is way better.
DJ MDX 11:37 PM - 1 March, 2005
Quote:
You mention a Power Book with XP Pro .... Aren't powerbooks macs ?


No.....lol

It is two different systems.

One PC with PC specs and one 17" Power Book.

Sorry for the confusion ;)
dbandit 4:15 PM - 2 March, 2005
Quote:
dbandit, you read that NI made the whole (ALL cd decks) only properly work with the latest fix, they left customers waiting since November which is like at least three months. Besidest that, it has been thoroughly explained why the Denons make problems, this is not an SSL flaw, therefore also other equipment will suffer from this problem (unless they are specially tweaked for Denon usage), which also applies to FS2. Have fun with FS2, but you know youve been warned. :-)


Key word in my initial post is "think"...doesn't mean I will run out and exchange it immediately. So I will take your warning under consideration...

SSL handles vinyl very well and the support so far is great. Believe me I know about the NI lack of concern. I am very impressed so far with the response of the moderators of this forum they've dealt with the issues head on and have given objective solutions. They sound like they were on the other end of the spectrum at some point.

Before I comment on this any further I think I'm doing some injustice because I haven't done the 1.3 upgrade yet (because I was told to wait until it was a complete and finalized 1.3). Anyways it seems like it has better response with the CD players so I will try.

@MDX...my bad...I realized I got your site mixed up with www.prodj.com because their link before was start.prodj.com and it looked similar. I'll sign up anyways, thanks

Bandit
AGIPRO 6:23 PM - 2 March, 2005
Quote:
Besidest that, it has been thoroughly explained why the Denons make problems


Where?
nik39 6:26 PM - 2 March, 2005
AGIPRO, Sams post, you read it... I thought?
AGIPRO 8:57 PM - 2 March, 2005
Quote:
AGIPRO, Sams post, you read it... I thought?


I'm still waiting for the thorough explaination. No where in his first post does Sam explain WHY the Denon's create problems. Only that they do.
s42000 9:24 PM - 2 March, 2005
My understanding is that they give SSL a funky signal to work with.

Denon my explain better why they 'funk' up the signal ...

my 02
DJ Dynamight 9:25 PM - 2 March, 2005
If you listen to the control signal being scratched, you will hear pops now and then. That would explain why SSL gets confused.

I also notice this when scratching bass or drum kicks with regular audio CDs on my 5000s. I would say it's 'normal by design'...IMO the unit is feature packed, but the scratching emulation isn't the best of the bunch.
nik39 10:13 PM - 2 March, 2005
Dynamight, does it also "pop" with normal audio?

AGIPRO, sorry, then I was a bit unclear. To me it sounded like an acceptable explanation, SSL does not work, due to the chopped/screwed signal coming out of the Denons, which is no explanation why the denons behave like that. Sorry, you were right.
skinnyguy 10:43 PM - 2 March, 2005
nik - no, no pops with normal audio. i also believe it's because their skratch algorhythm that they send a "screwy" signal to ssl. i can understand why the slipcueing has the glitch, but i don't understand why the hotstarts have the pop since hotstarts are supposed to be instantaneous.
nik39 10:47 PM - 2 March, 2005
skinnyguy, why does it pop with the control signal and not with normal audio? I mean the control signal is indeed some normal audio. Are you really sure, I mean are you talking about the control signal or the audio from SSL which pops? I was asking about the control signal _before_ it gets to SSL.
AGIPRO 12:59 AM - 3 March, 2005
Quote:
Dynamight, does it also "pop" with normal audio?

AGIPRO, sorry, then I was a bit unclear. To me it sounded like an acceptable explanation, SSL does not work, due to the chopped/screwed signal coming out of the Denons, which is no explanation why the denons behave like that. Sorry, you were right.


No worries, mate. I'm just a nerd and I want it explained to me in detail. Sam knows his stuff, if he can add .02 as to why one product is truely better than the other - I'm all ears. I LOVE facts! If any one has block diagrams of both the Pio's and the Denon's and can show me WHY one produces an inferior signal over an other - bring it on! :)
DJ Dynamight 3:03 AM - 3 March, 2005
Don't forget the algorithms used in each are also a major factor...diagrams can only paint a part of the picture.

Quote:
Dynamight, does it also "pop" with normal audio?

from my experience, no it doesn't make popping noises with normal audio (vocals, snares, etc)...only occasionally when doing baby scratches on a bass kick or bassline.

e.g. think of the sound you get if editing a waveform, when you reverse a curse word at the point where there is bass frequencies. the ugly pop that is heard during playback after you have reversed a section of the wave--that's the closest analogy I can think of. although it is not as pronounced on the 5000, it is still there.
skinnyguy 1:26 PM - 3 March, 2005
nik - why with the control signal and not regular audio cd? that's what i want to know...when using the hot start with a regular audio cd, i can make loops or use the hot starts easily with no pops. when using the s5k hotstart with ssl to stutter or loop, there is a slight pop...kinda like what you would hear when loading a song onto one deck (which isn't playing).

i can sorta understand why the s5k is having the jumping cue point while slipcueing....but why the pops in the hotstart and not starting instantly from the correct point when you press play, i don't understand....i mean, instant play and stutters works for normal audio cd's, right?

i also noticed i can get rid of the pop when i trim the a/b points.

i'm gonna have to do more experimenting with my coffin decks. i think my solo s5k is performing a bit differently from my s5k's in a coffin (i have 3 units). the platter on my solo s5k is also a bit...um...warblier...my coffin decks feel MUCH smoother.
DJ MDX 1:29 PM - 3 March, 2005
Quote:
Don't forget the algorithms used in each are also a major factor...diagrams can only paint a part of the picture.



e.g. think of the sound you get if editing a waveform, when you reverse a curse word at the point where there is bass frequencies. the ugly pop that is heard during playback after you have reversed a section of the wave--that's the closest analogy I can think of. although it is not as pronounced on the 5000, it is still there.



So true about the algorithms. The Pio's have the tightest in the industry..that is the reason some things, not many can not be done on them that can on vinyl. NOt really missed by most.

I like your analogy..it is a good one.

I will also be doing the test's on some Pio's...just have not decided which one's yet...the CDJ-800's or the CDJ-1000MKII's ?

Anyway just waiting for the Power Book to return. I have to do some back ups on the PC b4 I blow it out.

I will keep everyone updated.
nik39 1:35 PM - 3 March, 2005
MDX, I have seen you on the FS board, do you also own FS2?
DJ Dynamight 2:58 PM - 3 March, 2005
skinnyguy, don't forget you have to factor in the time SSL takes to decode the control signal it gets from the 5000 and figure out what location you are triggering the hot start from before it can jump to that point. after it realizes you are jumping from point x to point y, it basically does a needle drop to the new location...and the abrupt interruption of the currently playing signal to the point you are jumping to causes a slight pop.

you can't really compare playing a regular audio CD where all the buffering etc. is done with the 5000's internal memory to an external system such as SSL where there is *latency* involved.

I hope that helps to clear things up...
DJ MDX 7:14 PM - 3 March, 2005
Quote:
MDX, I have seen you on the FS board, do you also own FS2?



Yes, I am testing them both for a review that will be posted on my site.
skinnyguy 10:18 PM - 3 March, 2005
dynamight - yes, i understand about the time to decode the signal, but from what i hear, the pioneer does not have this problem with hotstarts or pressing play.....
DJ MDX 5:35 AM - 4 March, 2005
Good news guys,

I got my Power Book back this afternoon and I have been playing all afternoon on SSL on my 5K's with no real problems at all.

There are some pops with the hot starts but I am studying how the routine goes so maybe I can find a work around until SSL releases some type of fix for it.

All of the above problems (in my prior post) have vanished on the Power Book. Now I can see what all the hype was about...lol

I have not tried the vinyl yet...but will tomorrow or this weekend when time allows...I was just offered a residency at a club downtown so I have some things to think over, my damn plate is already overflowing and now to add more...well you gotta love life!

BTW....There are still some problems on FS2 with CD's. I am trying to work these out as well but not sure how successful I will be. One thing on FS2 there are no pops at all with hot starts and they are instant..no noticable lag to me. And FS2 is pretty rock solid on the vinyl side.

So this shows that it can be achieved and hopefully it will be achieved soon with SSL...at least there are a lot more happy people here than there....just browse and you will see a lot of my posts go unanswered.....not cool.

Well gotta get some sleep now.....I just wanted to report the good news to everyone.

I will keep updating you guys on my progress.

BTW...I am running Mac OS 10.3.5 which seems to be pretty stable right now....Is there any issues with SSL on upgrading to 10.3.8?

Please let me know if anyone is using it or has issues with it.

Thanks again,
DJ MDX
nik39 11:52 AM - 4 March, 2005
DJ MDX check your private messages please.
DJ MDX 4:34 PM - 4 March, 2005
Quote:
DJ MDX check your private messages please.


Great Idea! I just responded.
Peeti-V 9:38 PM - 4 March, 2005
how is the testing going MDX?
DJ MDX 2:09 PM - 5 March, 2005
Quote:
BTW....There are still some problems on FS2 with CD's. I am trying to work these out as well but not sure how successful I will be. One thing on FS2 there are no pops at all with hot starts and they are instant..no noticable lag to me. And FS2 is pretty rock solid on the vinyl side.


Update.....I think I have this problem worked out, so far so good.... have not had an issue with it so far.
DJ MDX 2:11 PM - 5 March, 2005
Quote:
how is the testing going MDX?


Testing going good so far...time is my only enemy.....not enough of it to get things done as fast as I would like.....lol
nik39 2:16 PM - 5 March, 2005
MDX, please check your private messages again ;)
DJ MDX 2:20 PM - 5 March, 2005
Quote:
MDX, please check your private messages again ;)


lol.....done ;)
DJ MDX 2:18 AM - 7 March, 2005
Update:

FYI - I am now also testing with a Pioneer CDJ-1000MKII.

No info yet, just got it for the review. I will update with more when I get more time. I have been so busy lately.
Peeti-V 4:08 AM - 7 March, 2005
being busy is no excuse MDX-si se puede mijo (did i spell that right) lol
DJ MDX 5:14 PM - 7 March, 2005
Quote:
being busy is no excuse MDX-si se puede mijo (did i spell that right) lol


Tiempo, eso es una cosa que no tengo mucho. Pero quando completo todas mis pruevas, ustedes sabran todo lo que susedio. No mas la verdad saldra.

Suerte Hermano,

DJ MDX
AGIPRO 8:54 PM - 10 March, 2005
Quote:
Update:

FYI - I am now also testing with a Pioneer CDJ-1000MKII.

No info yet, just got it for the review. I will update with more when I get more time. I have been so busy lately.


So, what's the verdict?! :D
Werd Da Mouf 5:20 AM - 19 October, 2005
Can I Use pioneers cdj-1000mkII's
Robinson 6:15 AM - 19 October, 2005
I'm using them... Works Awesome
Werd Da Mouf 10:01 AM - 19 October, 2005
so theres no problem all systems is a go with them mast tempo and etc.
Robinson 5:31 PM - 19 October, 2005
The only thing you cant use is Master Tempo/Key Lock and the Hot Starts. Loop, Reverse, Breaks, Wind ups, etc work perfectly. What I've done is set my pitch speeds to only +/- %6 untill I get use to not working with Master Tempo. But because you can organize your tracks by BPM it makes it easy to quickly speed up or slow down your sets.
Werd Da Mouf 11:13 PM - 19 October, 2005
alright thats cool but which one is better like seriously final scratch2 or serato using the pioneers. im really thinking hard of which one to buy
Robinson 2:47 AM - 20 October, 2005
I've only used Serato... I've actually only had it for just over a week now but I used it in the club last thurs, fri, sat... I LOVE it... Havent had any real problems at all. Watch the scratch live and final scratch videos here www.skratchworx.com I know there using tables.. but you can see there are a few bugs with FS.
Serato, Forum Moderator
Sam 10:24 AM - 20 October, 2005
This thread has slipped by me, and there are some unanswered questions here. I don't have answers to some of them, but can try to get them.

But before getting into that, a few things have changed since February - I've heard good things about the Denon CD players with Scratch LIVE 1.4, does anyone have any specific complaints about using 1.4 with Denon CD players? (other than some effects like master tempo not working)

MDX, Dynamight, skinnyguy, anyone else - how is this combo working for you?
skinnyguy 11:55 AM - 20 October, 2005
works fine for me. 1.4 was a TREMENDOUS improvement with the lag from 1.3.

i do encounter one weird occurrence. when a track has just loaded and i hit play and i try to fast forward using the platter to, say, 10 seconds in...sometimes ssl doesn't catch on until a couple of rotations....i've recently used ssl with cdj800s and didn't notice this as badly. i'm wondering if it's due to the cdj being a touch-sensitive platter vs denon's optical sensor platter.....and possibly the fact that the denon s5k rotates at 45 rpm, which would make it have to spin more than the cdj which has a "rotating" display at 33 1/3.

loops and hotstarts with the s5k is fairly easy. there will always be that little glitch, especially noticealble on re-cueing, but that's the nature of the beast, on any cd deck...and vinyl deck too, from what i hear.

i'm curious to hear on mdx's full results with the new denon 3500..direct drive and at 33 1/3 rpm.... mdx, u get my pm on the denon forum?
DJ Dynamight 2:12 PM - 20 October, 2005
Quote:
MDX, Dynamight, skinnyguy, anyone else - how is this combo working for you?


Sam, no issues to report using SSL with the S5000.

If things go as expected, I will have a pair of S3500s by the end of next week...

Quote:
i do encounter one weird occurrence. when a track has just loaded and i hit play and i try to fast forward using the platter to, say, 10 seconds in...sometimes ssl doesn't catch on until a couple of rotations....


maybe it takes a few seconds for the buffer on the S5K to fill up before you spin the platter forward right after hitting play?
DJ SHY 4:10 PM - 20 October, 2005
Hey Sam...
S3500's play fine with SSL.... I actually like it better with my 3500's than my 5000's...but both players are stable..

older video of SSL & S35K...
rapidshare.de
should have a new one up soon..
Serato, Forum Moderator
Sam 6:49 PM - 20 October, 2005
Quote:
i do encounter one weird occurrence. when a track has just loaded and i hit play and i try to fast forward using the platter to, say, 10 seconds in...sometimes ssl doesn't catch on until a couple of rotations....i've recently used ssl with cdj800s and didn't notice this as badly. i'm wondering if it's due to the cdj being a touch-sensitive platter vs denon's optical sensor platter.....and possibly the fact that the denon s5k rotates at 45 rpm, which would make it have to spin more than the cdj which has a "rotating" display at 33 1/3.


Does it make a difference how fast you spin the platter?
Does this only happen if you press play and then fast forward straight away, or also when you are playing normally (i.e you haven't just pressed play) and then fast forward?

We had a 3000 here for a while, and noticed that if you press play, and then immediately wind the platter forward, it didn't start fast forwarding straight away. That was with a regular audio CD.

Quote:
loops and hotstarts with the s5k is fairly easy. there will always be that little glitch, especially noticealble on re-cueing, but that's the nature of the beast, on any cd deck...and vinyl deck too, from what i hear.


I'm confused, you can't loop or do hotstarts with regular vinyl.
skinnyguy 9:51 PM - 20 October, 2005
dynamight - you could be right about the buffer. i haven't used regular audio cds (and had to search forward to find my cue point) in a long time ever since i got ssl. i almost forget what it's like.

sam - it only happens after pressing play and immediately fast forward. never when playing normally. that's why i think it may be a buffer issue like dynamight said. i just couldn't remember if it was like that with regular audio cds. i guess we have the same results.

about the loops/glitching...the loops/hotstarts are with cd players. but when using vinyl, i read somewhere that when u needledrop back to the beginning or another point, there is also a quick little glitch too.
DJ_X_Trodinaire 9:58 PM - 20 October, 2005
sam denon 5k and 1k has hot start buttons and loop
not using the one on SSL

on 5k you can set it up to have 5 cue points per song
1 play button and 4 hot start
i havent tinkered with with saving memo but im sure it should work.

it seems the hot start works better than the play button ie triggering a starting points
Serato
Josh 11:14 PM - 20 October, 2005
Quote:
sam - it only happens after pressing play and immediately fast forward. never when playing normally. that's why i think it may be a buffer issue like dynamight said. i just couldn't remember if it was like that with regular audio cds. i guess we have the same results.


During the lag-time, does ssl just continue to play normally before it catches up? Does the setup scope change?
skinnyguy 10:22 AM - 21 October, 2005
josh - it plays normally. never bothered to look at the scope at this time.
DJ MDX 3:24 PM - 21 October, 2005
Quote:
Originaly posted by Sam
But before getting into that, a few things have changed since February - I've heard good things about the Denon CD players with Scratch LIVE 1.4, does anyone have any specific complaints about using 1.4 with Denon CD players? (other than some effects like master tempo not working)

MDX, Dynamight, skinnyguy, anyone else - how is this combo working for you?



Wow talk about breathing new life into an old thread....lol

I have not had any issues with 1.4 on the DN-S5000 at all. For me the hot starts are on point. I dont get any glitches like on 1.3. I dont cue the traditional way you would with CD players...I scratch my song in or let it go from that point with no audible scratch..hope that made sense..or I use the hot starts to cue and bring it in from there.

Quote:
Originaly posted by skinnyguy
i'm curious to hear on mdx's full results with the new denon 3500..direct drive and at 33 1/3 rpm.... mdx, u get my pm on the denon forum?


Sorry bro I did not get your pm...you know how many problems that site has had with notifications since it went down.

I would also tend to agree the issue you reported has to do with buffer memory....there is more memory in reverse than forward motions...I guess the logic behind it is..you tend to not need as much for scratching and more for backspins.

But..to answer some questions. So far I am very happy with it. I like them much better than the 5K's in terms of the platter for feel and stability. When I 1st put it together it reminded me of when I was putting my Techincs together. The platter has good weight to it and feels very durable and sturdy when set on the player...no more "wobble, wobble"

Quote:
Originaly posted by Sam
Does it make a difference how fast you spin the platter?
Does this only happen if you press play and then fast forward straight away, or also when you are playing normally (i.e you haven't just pressed play) and then fast forward?

I'm confused, you can't loop or do hotstarts with regular vinyl.[/quote

1) Yes it does..if you do a slow spin forward it will go longer...but not immedialy after play.

2) Yes only after play.

3) Denon CD TT's have their own loop and hotstarts. I like to use them and so far work fine for me on both the 5K and 3.5K., although I use the hot starts more than the loops.


Quote:
Originaly posted by Josh
During the lag-time, does ssl just continue to play normally before it catches up? Does the setup scope change?


1) Yes, it plays normally..no audio drops or changes b4 it catches up.

2) No, the setup scope does not change until it catches up.
skinnyguy 8:00 PM - 21 October, 2005
mdx - sent ya another pm in these forums.
DJ MDX 10:24 PM - 21 October, 2005
Quote:
mdx - sent ya another pm in these forums.



got it and answered ;-)