DJing Discussion

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Is anybody else going all midi and using serato scratch?

thebuttonfreak 3:22 AM - 25 February, 2010
I'm mapping to an apc40 and getting really nice results. I get serious detail in my mix without the distractions of other programs or the temptation of automix. I'm sure plenty of people are doing this but I haven't seen much of it.
djbanno 12:36 PM - 25 February, 2010
kind of takes the romance from the turntable element no?
thebuttonfreak 4:28 PM - 25 February, 2010
I just want full control over my mix. I'm over the need to have turntables. I can't remember the last time I used those things to play real records.
sixxx 4:55 PM - 25 February, 2010
It's not about playing real records. Button pushing will never = having full control. That's why the turntable is the best controller out there.

So, the answer is no.
thebuttonfreak 5:04 PM - 25 February, 2010
If you are a scratch dj maybe that's true. But if you are a mix oriented dj than the pitch fader is the most important aspect. Mapping the fine pitch to a fader gives you even more detailed control than a turntable does.
Dj-M.Bezzle 5:07 PM - 25 February, 2010
i feel i have more control being able to knudge the record with my hand rather than a button, thats why i changed from cds to vinyl
thebuttonfreak 5:11 PM - 25 February, 2010
just map the +- nudge to some buttons. Same thing, works just as well.
thebuttonfreak 5:12 PM - 25 February, 2010
I'm honestly surprised' other people aren't doing this. It's the best setup I've had in years.
Dj-M.Bezzle 5:19 PM - 25 February, 2010
Quote:
just map the +- nudge to some buttons. Same thing, works just as well.

im not saying thats not a great idea or that mine works better, im saying that when i had a nudge button on my CD decks, and tried vinyl, i like the control of vinyl more
thebuttonfreak 5:20 PM - 25 February, 2010
no douobt, I mean that's why I bought Live to begin with.
AMF 5:20 PM - 25 February, 2010
I'm a turntable guy myself. No midi anything over here.
sixxx 5:24 PM - 25 February, 2010
Again, a turntable is great for scratching but that's not all. It's no wonder CD players emulated the 'needle drop'. Again, you would have to be mapping cues like crazy to be able to needle drop on a song using buttons.

Also, finding a huge platter in a very dark club is much easier than finding a small button to 'nudge'.

Simply, a turntable is the best.
thebuttonfreak 5:25 PM - 25 February, 2010
I was for a very long time. I just can't rationalize it anymore. It seems indulgent. I'm playing files, not records. I fell like it's time to deal with the future.
Logisticalstyles 5:25 PM - 25 February, 2010
Quote:
just map the +- nudge to some buttons. Same thing, works just as well.


It's not the same thing. When you hit a button you get the same result every time. When you use your hands to nudge the turntable you can use varying degrees of pressure depending on how much you need. Sure you can hold down the + or - a little longer but it's not the same as a nudge.
Dj-M.Bezzle 5:28 PM - 25 February, 2010
i also like that i can control the nudge instantly, ive played files before that due to editing or a weird producer or a skip in the cd i ripped it jumps, if i had to use midi buttons i would be off beat holding down that button trainwrecking the whole time, or id have to slam the track and ruin the mix making people listen to the break,with a record i can pull the record forward really far really fast and have the issue corrected almost immediatley, also when you drop the tracki like to be able to phyysically manipulate the position instead of hoping i hit the button at the right time (very dj hero) and if i miss it i can correct instead of hiolding a button down waiting
RogerRabbit 5:28 PM - 25 February, 2010
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I'm mapping to an apc40 and getting really nice results. I get serious detail in my mix without the distractions of other programs or the temptation of automix. I'm sure plenty of people are doing this but I haven't seen much of it.

Ssl seems like a waste if you just using it with midi controller. There is nothing wrong with automix btw if you prefer the push button type of mixing. It seems like a natural progression. For me though, I mix easier by touching the platter rather than playing with the pitch, so full midi wouldn't be an option for me.
AMF 5:30 PM - 25 February, 2010
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I was for a very long time. I just can't rationalize it anymore. It seems indulgent. I'm playing files, not records. I fell like it's time to deal with the future.

True. Can you post a mix so I can hear "the future"? I'm being serious. I need to see what I'm missing without a midi controller. For the life of me can't figure out what a midi controller can do that I can't do with my 1200s.

Thanks I'm new (to midi).
sixxx 5:34 PM - 25 February, 2010
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I was for a very long time. I just can't rationalize it anymore. It seems indulgent. I'm playing files, not records. I fell like it's time to deal with the future.


No. You're playing music regardless. The control record is as close to a music record as you can get.

Not trying to convince you.... after all, look at your screen name. lol


But, there's really no arguing that the turntable is the best controller. If I wanted to map all the possible options u have with a turntable, I would need 1000 buttons if not more.
Dj-M.Bezzle 5:41 PM - 25 February, 2010
just because something is newer or has more bells and whistles dosent make it better, the fact that the turntable has lasted this long and as old as it is still casues heated arguments on which is better tels you that it has something going for it, if it really was obsolete it wouldnt be an issue, if someone brought out a commedore 64 and said it was better than a mac the convo would be killed quick
AMF 5:41 PM - 25 February, 2010
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But, there's really no arguing that the turntable is the best controller

This is mainly true because I SAY SO. =)
sixxx 5:42 PM - 25 February, 2010
lol @ commodore 64. Great point.
O.B.1 6:13 PM - 25 February, 2010
I believe there is a happy medium somewhere.
Sure, you can't beat the feel of real wax for cuttin' & skratchin,
but mapped cue points in relative mode come in handy too.
I can see the advantage of carrying less gear to a gig, but then you have less in your bag of tricks...
Dj-M.Bezzle 6:23 PM - 25 February, 2010
something else that comes into mind, and this will vary from person to person and this also goes into the autostink argument, is that at least for me DJing isnt a "job", not saying dont get paid you are doing work, but its FUN work for me. I have a day job where i sit at a desk and push buttons to accomplish borring tasks i dont want to make my fun job the same way, i enjoy interacting with the music and throwin records and manipulating vinyl instead of CTRL + TAB = Crowd Dance.....Press + or - to make crowd dance faster or slower
sixxx 6:28 PM - 25 February, 2010
Quote:
I believe there is a happy medium somewhere.
Sure, you can't beat the feel of real wax for cuttin' & skratchin,
but mapped cue points in relative mode come in handy too.
I can see the advantage of carrying less gear to a gig, but then you have less in your bag of tricks...


No doubt. I mean, the 57 is a great addition to being able to get to cue points fast, etc. I also used DaScratch for a hot minute..... then got tired of it because the 57 was basically accomplishing the same thing.
sixxx 6:29 PM - 25 February, 2010
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something else that comes into mind, and this will vary from person to person and this also goes into the autostink argument, is that at least for me DJing isnt a "job", not saying dont get paid you are doing work, but its FUN work for me. I have a day job where i sit at a desk and push buttons to accomplish borring tasks i dont want to make my fun job the same way, i enjoy interacting with the music and throwin records and manipulating vinyl instead of CTRL + TAB = Crowd Dance.....Press + or - to make crowd dance faster or slower


That is an excellent point. When I was using DaScratch and 1 turntable (lack of room at this spot), it became boring very quickly.
thebuttonfreak 6:32 PM - 25 February, 2010
I don't scratch, never have. I always stayed away from going midi because whenever I used a program to mix the mixes were robotic and lifeless. So I used turnatables and scratch. AND I hate automix, I just really hate it. I don't care what other people do or think, I want to mix without a flashing bpm or a button that tempts me with a easy mix, I want to use my ears as much as possible. I get all the control I need from a midi controller now, the change for me came when I realized how precise I could mix with a the fine pitch fader mapped to an apc40 fader. I can get really in there and ride any two tunes in better detail than I can with turntables. +- 1 percent on a 6 cm fader is way mor detailed than +- 1 percent on 1cm like it is on a turntable. For me that seals it. I completely disagree with he notion that a turntable is better. The way I have it mapped the controller gives you more control. I can loop (not autoloop) have cue points, control the pitch with faders, use the effects in live 2.0, use the sampler, all on one beautiful interface. The apc40 is almost perfectly suited to this. In face there were only a couple of features (ones I never use) that I couldn't map nicely. I want the control of turntables (minus the scratching) with just a midi controller and this does it for me.
DJS/R 6:33 PM - 25 February, 2010
Turtables are the best controllers, by far. But do I think you could rock pretty much just as well by just midi mapping? Yeah probably. Most crowds don't care how you are doing it, they just do or do not like what is coming out of the speakers.

However, the reason I went with turntables is that 1) they are the most realistic controllers out there and allow me to have the utmost control of the entire situation. And 2) I think a pair of 1200's automatically command respect from bar managers/promoters. They are the most "real thing" out there to being a DJ. I know for a fact that if I were using just a midi controller to control my music my current residency wouldn't have hired me.
Dj-M.Bezzle 6:34 PM - 25 February, 2010
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Quote:
something else that comes into mind, and this will vary from person to person and this also goes into the autostink argument, is that at least for me DJing isnt a "job", not saying dont get paid you are doing work, but its FUN work for me. I have a day job where i sit at a desk and push buttons to accomplish borring tasks i dont want to make my fun job the same way, i enjoy interacting with the music and throwin records and manipulating vinyl instead of CTRL + TAB = Crowd Dance.....Press + or - to make crowd dance faster or slower


That is an excellent point. When I was using DaScratch and 1 turntable (lack of room at this spot), it became boring very quickly.



seriosouly though when your in the booth your seperated from the crowd, its ok though cause our interacting with the music and beat matching and knudging and scratching ect ect, your doing something that SHOULD be bringing you just as much pleasure as the people dancing on the floor, drinking, smoking, flirting ect.......i would feel kinda pathetic if i chose a song, pushed a buttono and it dropped, pushed a button and it synced and im left with 3 minutes of looking out at the floor like damn...looks like their having fun.....oh look at that .....ya....is it time to push the next button yet....nope...hmmm.....nope no new myspace or facebook messages.....no email....thats right everyones at the club....oh here it is.....ANNNND .......PUSH BUTTON
thebuttonfreak 6:35 PM - 25 February, 2010
the fact that people are this passionate just indicates to me that people are stubborn when it comes to change. Not that turntables aren't endangered in the dj world. people don't use 64's anymore. Even though they had a passionate following for many years way past their time in the sun as upfront technology. Shit, you still read about people using them for the trackers.

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lol @ commodore 64. Great point.
Dj-M.Bezzle 6:37 PM - 25 February, 2010
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. I completely disagree with he notion that a turntable is better. The way I have it mapped the controller gives you more control. .


and you have every right to, its a personal preference there is NO right or wrong answer....BUT in the situation above ipresented where there is a large skip in the track im saying more that an beat 3 beats into the best part of the break.....how would you quickly remedey that with just buttons?
Dj-M.Bezzle 6:38 PM - 25 February, 2010
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the fact that people are this passionate just indicates to me that people are stubborn when it comes to change. ]



how would you explain peopel who started out on newer equipment and went to turntables from there and perfer them....if TTs are just for people resistant to change?
thebuttonfreak 6:39 PM - 25 February, 2010
@ m-bizzle. That's the whole point, I use scratch instead of Itch, so I can be the one doing the mixing, looping, without any auto features there to tempt me or distract me. Sitting around pressing a button every 6 minutes is lame, but rocking a controller with samples, loops effects, cue point all while still being the one doing the mixing is exciting. It mealts production and djing in a new way imo.
thebuttonfreak 6:40 PM - 25 February, 2010
I think those are rare. Most people are leaving turntables behind. I 'm sure you can find counter examples but in general the move is towards midi.

all of this is of course just my opinion. I'm just wondering if anyone else is using ssl in an all midi format.
Dj-M.Bezzle 6:41 PM - 25 February, 2010
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@ m-bizzle. That's the whole point, I use scratch instead of Itch, so I can be the one doing the mixing, looping, without any auto features there to tempt me or distract me. Sitting around pressing a button every 6 minutes is lame, but rocking a controller with samples, loops effects, cue point all while still being the one doing the mixing is exciting. It mealts production and djing in a new way imo.



not being deragotory or sacrcastic, but do you have any videos or mixes posted we can listen too.....not trying to bash you but you sound like you have a really good grasp on what your trying to do and i would like to hear it and form my opinion based on something i acutually hear and not just an image ive constructed in my head based on what i DO know.
Dj-M.Bezzle 6:41 PM - 25 February, 2010
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I think those are rare.



rare but happen....so what would you do int he situation
thebuttonfreak 6:42 PM - 25 February, 2010
I don't. But scratch 2.0 and an apc40 has been a revelation to me. I'll try to put something together for you though.
Polanka 6:46 PM - 25 February, 2010
I have almost everything MIDI mapped but as stated above nothing can replace the turntable. I still use the turntable because I love how much control i have and you know what its really fun using a turntable. I basically hate using the keyboard and that is why I love MIDI controllers but nothing can touch the control of a turntable.
thebuttonfreak 6:49 PM - 25 February, 2010
I love records. Real records, with songs on them. But using records to control mp3's (which I did for 5 years) seems a bit silly at this point. I'm not saying it doesn't take a bit of remapping in the brain but I find I have an equally satisfying experience with all the control I need.


When was the last time you played real records along with the digital files in a set?
Dj-M.Bezzle 6:51 PM - 25 February, 2010
im talking about having a bad ass MP3 that was ripped from vinyl, something classic that when it was being ripped has a skip in it....or came off an old cd and has a skip when it was being recorded....or even a file that was produced wrong...i have a few DJ edits where for whateve whacky reason theres a beat skip that throws the mix off.....in those situatons how do you quickly correct postiion with an all button setup?
thebuttonfreak 6:55 PM - 25 February, 2010
Well, you have the nudge mapped to buttons. And you can say that it's not the same thing, and you're right, it's not but it DOES the same thing. You just have to retrain yourself a bit. But I've bought all digital tunes for the last 6 years or so and I seriously can't remember the last time that happened. I did however have the control records skip on me like 100 times or so.
Dj-M.Bezzle 6:57 PM - 25 February, 2010
so instead of just pulling the record to fix the problem in like 2 seconds, you hold down a button until it catches up....not saying your way isnt good for you but that alone to me makes the TT give you more control than a midi device....if for some reason i wanted to FF 32 bars up to a non midi mapped point i can do it in seconds rather than holding down a button and watiing for who knows how long

qustion....what are your views on the NS7
thebuttonfreak 7:02 PM - 25 February, 2010
CUE POINTS!!!


As far as the NS7 goes, it seems like the wrong direction to me, people want portability, customizability. They want to control effects, looping, mixing, samples on one interface. This just seems like robbing peter to pay paul. I am simply not interested. I like having a midi controller and a laptop and getting to do 99 percent of what a I need out of a turntable along with a bunch of stuff a turntable doesn't do (trigger samples ect..)
thebuttonfreak 7:04 PM - 25 February, 2010
If you wan tto scratch all my arguments are bullshit. TT's are still the best thing around. But not for long, Ns7, VCI-300 and the likes are catching up.
decals4djs.net 7:08 PM - 25 February, 2010
@thebuttonfreak

Hey I respect your point of few and this interests me as I have the APC40 aswell. You should grab a top view of the controller and make a diagram of how you have things mapped.

Am I understanding correctly that you are just using "int" mode with no turntables and just the APC40? Because sounds like you could get pretty creative; the APC is a BA controller!
thebuttonfreak 7:12 PM - 25 February, 2010
Ya, I use int and map it all to my apc. When I have a minute today I'll make a diagram. And with 2.0 you have the added bonus of being able to map effects to the knobs on the side. It's perfect because there are 6 effects and you get two knobs per effect (endless knobs to boot!) SO you can control amount of effect and something else, I have timestep as the second control. That combined with the daisy chaing feature in 2.0 gives amazing results.
decals4djs.net 7:13 PM - 25 February, 2010
nice dude, yeah if you get a chance you should whip something together, doesnt have to be beautiful!

I am always down for trying new things
thebuttonfreak 7:14 PM - 25 February, 2010
I can always upload my midi mapping file too :) Save you the trouble. Though it's not very hard.
decals4djs.net 7:15 PM - 25 February, 2010
perfect!
sixxx 9:26 PM - 25 February, 2010
@thebuttonfreak

It has nothing to do with being stubborn. Seriously, there isn't anything out there (yet) that can do what the turntable can do in terms of control. Why do you think EVERYTHING out there emulates the turntable in one way or another?

Now, you say "records skip on me about 100 times" or something like that. Well, you must be doing something wrong. My shit NEVER skips. Ever. That's what relative mode is for. And, relative mode with needle drop was the best thing SSL came up with. Before then, I was all absolute mode.

.... and the last time I played a regular record along SSL was last week.

Pushing buttons all night long is just lame and boring.
sixxx 9:29 PM - 25 February, 2010
PS... I'm not saying that MIDI doesn't have its place in DJing. I think turntable, plus MIDI of some sort definitely ups your game if you know what you're doing.
O.B.1 9:34 PM - 25 February, 2010
exactly sixxx,
(happy medium)
also if a person spins video, MIDI is absolutely necessary.
But if they can also scratch/manipulate the video from their turntables, it really adds another element of showmanship to your live performance...
thebuttonfreak 9:35 PM - 25 February, 2010
Records skip, that's what they do. People run into the table, there's a scratch, the bass vibrates, feedback ect... I've been djing for 15 years and have played plenty of high profile gigs (like many others her I'm sure) and have rocked the house enough times to earn the "I know what I'm doing" badge.

Seems to me, and this is just an opinion. People want to hold on to turntables because they "look" more professional or "look" cooler. Anything you get out of it is not very important in terms of just mixing. Again, scratching is a different thing.

With my new setup there is nothing I can't do mixing wise with a turntable, in fact I can do much more. Nostalgia just keeps you from evolving imo.
Dj-M.Bezzle 9:37 PM - 25 February, 2010
whichever works for you is the best, BUT i do take issue with the statment that a midi controller is a superior controller than a turntable, with a TT you have physical access to any part of the song at any given moment, with a midi device you only have access to the immediate area surrounding the current track, your limited on the speed to advance and decline the speed of the playing track, and your limited to preplanned cue points
Dj-M.Bezzle 9:39 PM - 25 February, 2010
Quote:

With my new setup there is nothing I can't do mixing wise with a turntable, in fact I can do much more. Nostalgia just keeps you from evolving imo.


can you skip to the second verse of a song without going in and setting up cue points first??
sixxx 9:40 PM - 25 February, 2010
Post a video. I'd like to see what YOU can do with your set up. I will then post a video of my own using nothing but turntables and SSL.
thebuttonfreak 9:40 PM - 25 February, 2010
not really, you can use a mouse to go to any part of the track you want to. And I don't really see the cue points as limiting. When I practice I set up my cue points and they are good for the gig.

and me thinking Midi is superior control for people who just mix is an opinion.
I respect the TT I just think that in the context of dance mixing it's a nostalgic luxury not a necessity.
sixxx 9:40 PM - 25 February, 2010
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whichever works for you is the best, BUT i do take issue with the statment that a midi controller is a superior controller than a turntable, with a TT you have physical access to any part of the song at any given moment, with a midi device you only have access to the immediate area surrounding the current track, your limited on the speed to advance and decline the speed of the playing track, and your limited to preplanned cue points


exactly
Dj-M.Bezzle 9:41 PM - 25 February, 2010
without seeing a video and without hearing a mix i cant see there being any soul left in this form of mixing....question, what genre do you mix?
sixxx 9:41 PM - 25 February, 2010
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Quote:

With my new setup there is nothing I can't do mixing wise with a turntable, in fact I can do much more. Nostalgia just keeps you from evolving imo.


can you skip to the second verse of a song without going in and setting up cue points first??


exactly

It seems with MIDI and mapping (cue points) you have to do all this work ahead of time. I can load any song (or video) and do what I need to do with all this pre-planning.
thebuttonfreak 9:42 PM - 25 February, 2010
I play a few genres. Techno/house mixed with Nu disco and indie. DNB and I'm into the more garage side of dubstep/uk funky.
sixxx 9:43 PM - 25 February, 2010
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I play a few genres. Techno/house mixed with Nu disco and indie. DNB and I'm into the more garage side of dubstep/uk funky.



Well no wonder.

/discussion for me
Dj-M.Bezzle 9:43 PM - 25 February, 2010
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When I practice I set up my cue points and they are good for the gig.



ok another question, what if the situation requires you to play a track you havent practiced with, or had time to go in and set loops and cues in advance
thebuttonfreak 9:43 PM - 25 February, 2010
I'm not sure you guys appreciate how easy dropping a cue point is. It's easly done on your first listen or on the fly.
Dj-M.Bezzle 9:43 PM - 25 February, 2010
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Quote:
I play a few genres. Techno/house mixed with Nu disco and indie. DNB and I'm into the more garage side of dubstep/uk funky.



Well no wonder.

/discussion for me



lol...exactly...i kinda figured that question would be a thread killer
thebuttonfreak 9:44 PM - 25 February, 2010
Well then I just play it and mix it like I would with any other setup.

#sixxx why is that the end of the discussion? What genre do you play?
thebuttonfreak 9:45 PM - 25 February, 2010
Shit, I don't play them together. I just wear many hats.
O.B.1 9:47 PM - 25 February, 2010
Quote:
Post a video. I'd like to see what YOU can do with your set up. I will then post a video of my own using nothing but turntables and SSL.


sixxx vs. thebuttonfreak

(oranges vs. apples)

I'd like to see both sides of this debate...
thebuttonfreak 9:47 PM - 25 February, 2010
What, you guys play trance or something?
Dj-M.Bezzle 9:47 PM - 25 February, 2010
eye eye eye
thebuttonfreak 9:48 PM - 25 February, 2010
Seriously, what do you guys play?
Dj-M.Bezzle 9:52 PM - 25 February, 2010
even setting up loops and cue points seem likeit would be difficult, if im listening to a track for the 1st time and in the middle of a verse i hear something that would be a cool cue point and loop are i can just physically backspin to that point , line it up with my hand just right, drop a cue and rewind it further loop in and let it run thenn manually get it to the loop out point, your way you would listen, then click back on the wave forms, hopefully you drop the cue right on the first go thru, if not hit and hold the rewind button, stop the track drop the cue, click the wave form, get to the part you want to loop, stop the strack, rewind, place loop in, start track, get to loop out point try to hit it on the fly, if not stop the track hold rewind button, keep hitting rewind and fast forward and keep starting and stopping song till its right, drop loop out point, click waveform to go back before this area and play through clicking to go back each time to see if it all sounds right
O.B.1 9:54 PM - 25 February, 2010
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Seriously, what do you guys play?


I play it all!
if it sounds good...
I don't like to pigeon hole myself.
thebuttonfreak 9:55 PM - 25 February, 2010
it's much easier than all that, regardless you can just load the track in the other deck and any cue point you put in there will automatically show up on the other deck
Dj-M.Bezzle 9:55 PM - 25 February, 2010
where do you put the slipmats on your midi controller?
O.B.1 9:55 PM - 25 February, 2010
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I don't like to pigeon hole myself.


no misquote needed, that just sounds funny...
Dj-M.Bezzle 9:56 PM - 25 February, 2010
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it's much easier than all that, regardless you can just load the track in the other deck and any cue point you put in there will automatically show up on the other deck

i know that but getting to the precise point you want your cue seems much more difficult...im very picky and exact with my cues
O.B.1 9:56 PM - 25 February, 2010
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where do you put the slipmats on your midi controller?


I have one in my shower...
thebuttonfreak 9:58 PM - 25 February, 2010
I am too, I just don't see a problem. I can also think of things you can' do with turntables. None of the things you've brought up are things that have ever bothered me. I set up my cue points when I practice or I do it on the fly. I don't see the problem.
O.B.1 10:01 PM - 25 February, 2010
different strokes... (no Gary Coleman)

"whatchoo talkin' 'bout Willis!?"
jprime 10:07 PM - 25 February, 2010
Seems to be that if you don't scratch, or any other turntablist stuff, you could be very happy with a midi type setup.

Beatmatching is fun for some people, and they like to do it. Others not so much, they'd rather have it auto-synched or warped, etc so they can have fun in other areas.

IMO, the best possible route to take is, use it all. Bend it all to your will. I believe that's a great approach, and also why something like The Bridge has been developed. It spans the gap pretty eloquently.
Dj-M.Bezzle 10:10 PM - 25 February, 2010
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I can also think of things you can' do with turntables..


such as?
Dj-M.Bezzle 10:10 PM - 25 February, 2010
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etc so they can have fun in other .



such as?
thebuttonfreak 10:14 PM - 25 February, 2010
You can't time travel with turntables.
Dj-M.Bezzle 10:15 PM - 25 February, 2010
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You can't time travel with turntables.



do you have a midi controller that you can time travel with??
DJS/R 10:18 PM - 25 February, 2010
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Quote:
You can't time travel with turntables.



do you have a midi controller that you can time travel with??



Yes, the term "midi" is actually a new term. Back in the 1980's they called midi controllers, "Flux Capacitor's."
jprime 10:31 PM - 25 February, 2010
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etc so they can have fun in other .
such as?


Checking email and humping the mixer.
jprime 10:32 PM - 25 February, 2010
I leave that open to them to interpret, as I am a fan of the TT's and beatmatching. I assume there's something fun going on. ;)
Dj-M.Bezzle 10:36 PM - 25 February, 2010
lol its the same thing everytime....auto sync allows us to do amasing things and be dreative.....really how so......hows the weather in new orleans i hear its raining.......no really what are ou doing with that time.......ANYONE CAN BEATMATCH!!!!!
diego vega 10:44 PM - 25 February, 2010
What I don't understand is, if you own an APC40 and Ableton Live AND you want to play using a MIDI controller and no turntables/cdjs, then I don't understand why you are using SSL.... just use Live, you can do much more with it than with SSL!
Dj-M.Bezzle 10:46 PM - 25 February, 2010
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What I don't understand is, if you own an APC40 and Ableton Live AND you want to play using a MIDI controller and no turntables/cdjs, then I don't understand why you are using SSL.... just use Live, you can do much more with it than with SSL!



very true
Dj-M.Bezzle 10:47 PM - 25 February, 2010
using "scratch" live "vinyl emulation" software and not scratching or emulating vinyl seems kinda bass assward
Z0nkers 10:56 PM - 25 February, 2010
i read about 1/2 of this and there are good points on all views. ive been hearing more and more about controllerism now that it does make me wonder as time passes how many people will leave any type of platter aside for straight up buttons and faders.

will a platter style controller become nothing more than just a tool a scratch 'effect'?

will a scratch effect become so popular in the years to come that there will be several customizable option like any other effect controller....creating new types of digital scratching that just isnt possible on platter controllers?
thebuttonfreak 10:57 PM - 25 February, 2010
I'm free to use whatever program I want. I already own an sl1, I don't see the logic in purchasing new gear that I don't really like anyways (all the itch controllers) when I have a program that I like SSL. I can pick my fav controller and I'm off to the races. As for using Ableton, I want to be able to mix, with my ears, on the fly, to dj in live takes a bit of work as you have to set up all the tunes first and then you just trigger. It's not the experience I'm looking for.
thebuttonfreak 10:59 PM - 25 February, 2010
You guys seem stuck on having to use TT's ot Cdjs. Why? it's just another way to mix. I use fader on a midi controller instead of faders on a turntable. The point is of SSL is to have control without the gimmicks of a program like traktor.
Dj-M.Bezzle 11:05 PM - 25 February, 2010
Quote:
I'm free to use whatever program I want. I already own an sl1, I don't see the logic in purchasing new gear that I don't really like anyways (all the itch controllers) when I have a program that I like SSL. I can pick my fav controller and I'm off to the races. As for using Ableton, I want to be able to mix, with my ears, on the fly, to dj in live takes a bit of work as you have [LOOP IN] to set up all the tunes first and then you just trigger. It's not the experience I'm looking for. [ LOOP OUT ]


there we go...i was creative :)
Dj Shamann 11:06 PM - 25 February, 2010
Quote:
You guys seem stuck on having to use TT's ot Cdjs. Why?


And you seem stuck on your train of though, why?

You assume that you're the only one out of all of us that has explored other mediums and found a preference based on experiencing both ends of the spectrum.
Z0nkers 11:07 PM - 25 February, 2010
is the apc40 even capable of controlling itch? i thought u needed the ns7 or some other controller made specifically for itch?
Dj-M.Bezzle 11:07 PM - 25 February, 2010
Quote:
You guys seem stuck on having to use TT's ot Cdjs. Why? it's just another way to mix. I use fader on a midi controller instead of faders on a turntable. The point is of SSL is to have control without the gimmicks of a program like traktor.



and you seem stuck on converting people and convincing them that your way is somehow better .ok we get it that works for you and thats awsome, wether its because of nestalisha or just because its an easier and more effective way to work alot of people dont feel its right for them, stop being offended that they continue to make turntables even after you abandoned them
thebuttonfreak 11:09 PM - 25 February, 2010
I'm just living in 2010. Join me.

It's all in fun. I'm just passionate so I like to argue.
Dj-M.Bezzle 11:09 PM - 25 February, 2010
me personally i enjoy throwing and knudging the record alot more than simply pushing buttons and i like the bit of soul and warmth it gives my mixes to be able to baby scratch into songs sometimes....that said i have a Denon 1000 sl midi controller which includes pitch nudge cue points loops ect, and a korg kontrol for effects, i have best of both worlds and theres nothing i cant do with my setup.
Dj-M.Bezzle 11:10 PM - 25 February, 2010
Quote:
I'm just living in 2010. Join me.

It's all in fun. I'm just passionate so I like to argue.



if 2010 means sitting in a chair pushing buttons ill stay inwhatever year im stuck in cause its more fun here
Dj-M.Bezzle 11:11 PM - 25 February, 2010
Quote:
I'm just living in 2010.



also its 2010, buy a webcam record a mix post it on youtube or ustream or some of your wacky future sites and show us the superority of your technique
Dj-M.Bezzle 11:13 PM - 25 February, 2010
also just the thought of trying to line up the 1st fraction of the down beat using only pitch nudge buttons makes me physically ill.....that would be sooooo tedious
Dj-M.Bezzle 11:14 PM - 25 February, 2010
presh button...alllmost there...press button...allllmost...holds button...jusssssttt abouttt...there...click
thebuttonfreak 11:27 PM - 25 February, 2010
You obviously have no idea how it works. But that's ok. Enjoy the past, I'll hop into my flying car and see you in the future.
Dj Shamann 11:27 PM - 25 February, 2010
Quote:
I'm just living in 2010. Join me.




Good for you, when I tried the stuff you're only now just experiencing in 2010 it was 2006, join you? What and back peddle?

If I had that much trouble mixing that I needed fine tuned detail that think "only midi mapping" could give me I wouldn't run out and by an expensive controller. I'd F3/F8 and use ER-DF. I'd suggest that it's you that's trying to look cool with an APC which is a machine meant for way more than just controlling a basic vinyl emulation program than us poor old dinosaurs with our dusty old techs.

I can be condescending too.
thebuttonfreak 11:29 PM - 25 February, 2010
hey, I have techs too. They are for playing real records though.
thebuttonfreak 11:30 PM - 25 February, 2010
And Working off your keyboard is annoying. Plus as far as I can tell my laptop has no faders.
Dj Shamann 11:39 PM - 25 February, 2010
Quote:
You obviously have no idea how it works. But that's ok. Enjoy the past, I'll hop into my flying car and see you in the future.



You obviously don't either, you have a program and a corresponding machine that can do so many things yet you've ditched the program and swapped it out only to use the machine for the most basic shit imaginable.

Seriously, that flying car must've took you back to 1985 when MIDI was as brand new and exciting as your making it out to be Marty.

You're not doing anything groundbreaking, you're just driving your flying Delorian on a country road while doing 10 under on a Sunday.
Dj Shamann 11:45 PM - 25 February, 2010
Quote:
And Working off your keyboard is annoying. Plus as far as I can tell my laptop has no faders.


Now you know how others feel with your solution. You chalk it up to them not knowing what theyre doing and I can do the same to you. Because it doesn't matter if it's annoying or not, the point is it can be done. I don't need an APC or faders to do what you're suggesting. SSL is a very basic program and you think because you've got a flashy new toy with blinking lights you're doing something out of everyones league, when really its just a preference thing.
thebuttonfreak 11:47 PM - 25 February, 2010
Live 2.0 has a sampler, fx's, the bridge... Doesn't seem so basic anymore.
thebuttonfreak 11:49 PM - 25 February, 2010
look, I just wanted to know if other people are doing this and how. I'm not the one who turned it into a "why would you do that? That's dumb" type of conversation. Others did that and put me in the position of explaining why.
Dj Shamann 11:54 PM - 25 February, 2010
Have fun Marty.
thebuttonfreak 12:02 AM - 26 February, 2010
Specifically. IS ANYONE ELSE USING SL1 OR SL3 WITH AN ALL MIDI SETUP?


No yelling thing came up do I have to type more in order to....
Z0nkers 12:05 AM - 26 February, 2010
just wanted to mention that THIS used to be the club standard cd player before cdj's came out

www.virtualdj.com

so even though i understand what many people are saying about platters.... 'controlerism' is actually more oldschool than cdjs, lol
Z0nkers 12:05 AM - 26 February, 2010
^ ps, thats an image link to dennon 2000 ....NOT virtual dj software
Z0nkers 12:07 AM - 26 February, 2010
...so between that and the apc40...there really is no difference either way as far as djing goes & that used to be the standard aside from 12's
DjWoody 12:12 AM - 26 February, 2010
Everything you guys mentioned at the top about turntables, can be done with the Numark V7. The V7 is one bad ass controller. The platter feels just like the 1200's, it has a real vinyl, it has needle drop (you don't have to set any cue points to use it) plus more. It's nice and heavy just like the 1200 so it doesn't feel like a cheap toy, and it isn't cheap!

IMO, the V7 is the best of both worlds, without having to worry about needle skipping.
thebuttonfreak 12:13 AM - 26 February, 2010
Dj Shamann 12:30 AM - 26 February, 2010
Quote:
just wanted to mention that THIS used to be the club standard cd player before cdj's came out

www.virtualdj.com


I still have one laying about, but an even older model than that. When I moved over to CD's pre-Serato days and pre-3500's (didn't like the Pio's) I picked one up because that's what most clubs were using at the time and basically got it for free.

Quote:
so even though i understand what many people are saying about platters.... 'controlerism' is actually more oldschool than cdjs, lol


That's why I'm laughing at the welcome to 2010 stance. Been there, done that with many different machines... years ago. Trust me, I get very excited over new technology, but at the end of the day it's about purpose and functionality. Yet when I talk about Tech preference (once upon a time I even owned PDX's when everyone cried blasphemy) people assume dinosaur and condescend about the future.

At least Marty over there has been Djing for 15 years as he says, he's just a little late on his breakthroughs is all. So I won't bust his balls too much. But It's much funnier when it's someone who goes tooth and nail and all expert advanced technology guy and then I see them later on in the week with an "I just played my first gig!" post.
dj_soo 12:46 AM - 26 February, 2010
i've dj'd sets with just my 57 and my MPD32 and I've dj'd sets with 1 deck and my midi controller controlling the other side.

it's alright - I would still choose 2 decks over any of those setups any day but in a pinch, it's actually not that bad...

For gigs where I'm not the focus (restaurant gigs, store gigs, background music gigs) I don't mind using a midi controller or something, but for any real club gigs I'll always want 2 TTs and a mixer.
Phil Anthony 12:46 AM - 26 February, 2010
In buttonfreak's defense. I own techs, cdjs, an MPD 24 and a VCI 300. I use them all for different scenarios. Of course my first choice would be Techs from a feel standpoint however there is one thing you definitely can't do with any turntable or set of turntables - fit them in your back pack.

Both the MPD 24 and the VCI 300 easily fit in a carry on when I am traveling out of state or out of country. Shit if I have to walk 10 blocks, I'd rather be carrying a midi controller than a set of decks. I bet buttonfreak can back me up on this...I have a blast rocking parties with a midi controller.

Of course using anything new is going to take some getting used to but completely closing yourself off to the idea of midi controllers as turntable replacements might be a little short sighted. We all love to learn and we all love to master something new or we would still be mixing pure vinyl right? I really believe it's all about what your ultimate goal is.

My goal 99.9% of the time is to seamlessly rock a party while exposing them to new music. I like to stretch a crowd out without causing discomfort. (Your girl is a different story...jk). Seriously though, for me it's about flow, selection, phrasing and reading the crowd. I can do that on techs or midi or CDJs.

I will say, that If you are pure turntablist, or your style is scratch heavy, I agree, there is no way you are going to be happy with an APC and no platter but for all others - you might be missing out.
DJ Prashant 12:49 AM - 26 February, 2010
I am impressed by the quality discussion and no trash talking, curious to see the apc40 midi mapping diagram.
Phil Anthony 12:53 AM - 26 February, 2010
Quote:
I am impressed by the quality discussion and no trash talking, curious to see the apc40 midi mapping diagram.


Agreed, I still haven't found a super happy way for me to map the MPD24 - definitely some button limitations. Would love to see how guys are mapping the APC.
the_black_one 12:54 AM - 26 February, 2010
midi for cue points,loops,,sampler. Everything else is handled by the mixer and TT...in my humble opinion.

+1 on TT as the best control
+1 on a good balance between midi,analog,digital
thebuttonfreak 12:56 AM - 26 February, 2010
thebuttonfreak 12:57 AM - 26 February, 2010
tell me if the link works
thebuttonfreak 12:57 AM - 26 February, 2010
and this is for scratch 2.0 btw
sixxx 1:05 AM - 26 February, 2010
Quote:
The platter feels just like the 1200's, it has a real vinyl, it has needle drop (you don't have to set any cue points to use it) plus more


Like I said before, EVERYTHING out there has tried to emulate the turntable in one way or another. This needle drop that you speak of is NOT needle drop.
Z0nkers 1:09 AM - 26 February, 2010
....ok, si i guess im wondering if you're not going to bother with a platter controler of any sort, then why SSL? why not tracktor or another program that will do the same as SSL + a lot more?
sixxx 1:13 AM - 26 February, 2010



Look at how many buttons you'd have to push to achieve what you need to achieve via MIDI.... With a turntable, you have one big platter and a record.

Listen (or read buttonfreak). In the realm of the type of music you music, there isn't much you can do but mix. At least, most people who mix your type of music basically just mix it and that's it. This is why I said, end of discussion for me. You don't have to be a turntablist to incorporate stuff that adds flavor to your mix, but with a turntable, this opens a ton of possibilities - and I don't mean scratching.

Listen to a mix that has been recorded without turntables. Now, listen to a mix that has turntablist stuff incorporated into it and you will notice that there's life to it. The other one, can basically be achieved with any 2 track (or more) recording program that also fades or that it will allow you to fade between the end of a song and the beginning of another.... all this without the need to push buttons.

This is why you said you're so much against ableton... but in reality, you're basically doing the same thing BUT just pushing more buttons in the process.
thebuttonfreak 1:16 AM - 26 February, 2010
@ Zonker - Because traktor has crappy pitch fader control and it's for people who don't do their own beatmatching. I want to do all the work, so I'm fully engaged. I can't do that with traktor shitty pitch control. I hate seeing the bpm, I hate having a synch button. I know some would say dobn't use it or don't look at it but for me not only do I sometimes cave and use it but it's also distracting when I'm not. These complaints go for all other programs other than SSL. Plus I already own SL1 and like the program, why not just adapt for needs.
thebuttonfreak 1:25 AM - 26 February, 2010
Quote:


It does more than that, it loops,set cues, plays samples, controls effects...

Look at how many buttons you'd have to push to achieve what you need to achieve via MIDI.... With a turntable, you have one big platter and a record.




Quote:
Listen (or read buttonfreak). In the realm of the type of music you music, there isn't much you can do but mix. At least, most people who mix your type of music basically just mix it and that's it. This is why I said, end of discussion for me. You don't have to be a turntablist to incorporate stuff that adds flavor to your mix, but with a turntable, this opens a ton of possibilities - and I don't mean scratching.


Totally agree, for turntablism there is no better solution. I think I said that like 10 times.

Quote:
Listen to a mix that has been recorded without turntables. Now, listen to a mix that has turntablist stuff incorporated into it and you will notice that there's life to it. The other one, can basically be achieved with any 2 track (or more) recording program that also fades or that it will allow you to fade between the end of a song and the beginning of another.... all this without the need to push buttons.


I disagree about the life of a mix, I used to think this but now I realize that when I map the fine pitch fader to a 6 cm fader I can recapture the subtitle nuances of a clean vinyl to vinyl mix. For what I do it's all I really need.

Quote:
This is why you said you're so much against ableton... but in reality, you're basically doing the same thing BUT just pushing more buttons in the process.


I love Ableton. When did I say I was against it?
Z0nkers 1:33 AM - 26 February, 2010
i think personally i caved in and just decided to start using absolutely any and everythign available ont he market now. i used to be a 2 tt w/ originals kind of guy..... so at this point in the game, i dont care if its a denon 2000, SSL, cdj or whatever, in my eyes everyone is just as guilty as the next for 'cheating' as some put it...i don tknow anyone who uses original presses, mixers with no fluff and tt's anymore. even if you use tt's w/ original presses but have a mixer with effects...its no different in my eyes than if u use tracktor auto sync + midi controllers.

at what point do people have a right to argue over this or that, lmao.

so anyways, yeah...im totally supportive of you using an apc40, although looking at how you have it layed out it does leave a lot of unused real estate. i wonder if another controller would be a better suit for just SSL purposes.

looking at this thread just makes me think...yeah, maybe platters really no more than song manipulation tools now, and that can easily be replaced by digital effects in the next few years.

***press 'chirp' effect and manipulates bank of parameters to customize the scratch length, speed, attack, decay, and the super knob to affect all parameters to add a custom 'live' sound.
thebuttonfreak 1:38 AM - 26 February, 2010
haha, That's why I need Serato to give me more control so I can use more buttons!
AKIEM 1:46 AM - 26 February, 2010
The main thing about the turntable (moving plater) is that it gives you a dimension of control you simply can not get any other way - mechanical physical feedback. The larger the plater the more precision feedback. When you nudge or whatever you do not physically feel the result. And thats something that I am not willing to give up - scratch or mix.

I hope that there will be a standard large format rotating platter midi controller one day.
lost vegas 1:54 AM - 26 February, 2010
Turntables ftw!!!! End thread!! ;)
DjWoody 1:54 AM - 26 February, 2010
Quote:
The main thing about the turntable (moving plater) is that it gives you a dimension of control you simply can not get any other way - mechanical physical feedback. The larger the plater the more precision feedback. When you nudge or whatever you do not physically feel the result. And thats something that I am not willing to give up - scratch or mix.

I hope that there will be a standard large format rotating platter midi controller one day.


Wait til you try the V7. It does just that. The platter moves and feels just like a 1200 without having to worry about needles skipping.
Z0nkers 2:12 AM - 26 February, 2010
i love the feel of the v7, but i hate the buttons, the layout of the buttons and the platter is too small....BUT they did get the platter technology bang on spot
AKIEM 2:41 AM - 26 February, 2010
V7 - I do not like twiddling the small platter. (and my needles never skip)
sixxx 2:45 AM - 26 February, 2010
Yeah. Small platter sucks. The CDJ and HDX was a better platter.

Also, my needles never skip. lol
DJ Val-BKNY11203 3:21 AM - 26 February, 2010
I love the technology...but that takes all the fun out of playing music to me.
Dj-M.Bezzle 1:33 PM - 26 February, 2010
Quote:
I was for a very long time. I just can't rationalize it anymore. It seems indulgent. I'm playing files, not records. I fell like it's time to deal with the future.

Quote:
I'm just living in 2010. Join me.

It's all in fun. I'm just passionate so I like to argue.

Quote:
@ Zonker - Because traktor has crappy pitch fader control and it's for people who don't do their own beatmatching. I want to do all the work, so I'm fully engaged. I can't do that with traktor shitty pitch control. I hate seeing the bpm, I hate having a synch button. I know some would say dobn't use it or don't look at it but for me not only do I sometimes cave and use it but it's also distracting when I'm not. These complaints go for all other programs other than SSL. Plus I already own SL1 and like the program, why not just adapt for needs.
Quote:
You obviously have no idea how it works. But that's ok. Enjoy the past, I'll hop into my flying car and see you in the future.



ok well if we are using your rationality then i say its 2010 why are you lugging around a huge midi controller when there are programs like tracktor and itch that will sync the BPM for you, and you dont like to see BPM, its 2010 why are you not using the advanced info provided for you, you say you like to manually beatmatching, i think thats just fear of the unkown and stubborness holding you back get with the times and advance to the newer better stuff, you go ahead and hop in your flying car and ill just use my teleporter, see you when you catch up to me in a couple hours assuming your flying car dosent crash
C. William 3:21 PM - 26 February, 2010
Quote:
Everything you guys mentioned at the top about turntables, can be done with the Numark V7. The V7 is one bad ass controller. The platter feels just like the 1200's, it has a real vinyl, it has needle drop (you don't have to set any cue points to use it) plus more. It's nice and heavy just like the 1200 so it doesn't feel like a cheap toy, and it isn't cheap!

IMO, the V7 is the best of both worlds, without having to worry about needle skipping.


i agree
C. William 3:22 PM - 26 February, 2010
although it would be even better if rane or technics came out with one with a 10" platter
decals4djs.net 4:46 PM - 26 February, 2010
I actually got a chance to play around with the APC 40 with SSL yesterday, and I must say that I was quickly impressed, a short 30 minute jam session turned into a 4 hour session. It is definitely a different way of playing, jammin on midi pads is more fun than I thought, glad you opened my eyes to this as I was about to offload my APC40 because I didn't use it as much as I thought I would; keepin it now!

Turntables or not, just remember folks, theres more than one way around the barrel!
thebuttonfreak 8:02 PM - 26 February, 2010
Nice! Did you take my mapping suggestions or do something new?
djdragon 4:25 AM - 27 February, 2010
Quote:
Is anybody else going all midi and using serato scratch?


Go right ahead.
djchriscruz 4:05 PM - 27 February, 2010
i believe that midi is the future of DJing but turntable skills will always command respect for DJ's. Just like a rapper that can freestyle off the top or a singer that can sing accapella. Those talents dont bring success and recognition alone but it definitely adds to your credibility.

Also I'll wait to jump on midi when a real brand like Rane takes what Numark is doing and sets the standard. Numark is a good start but I think the ns7 and v7 will be obsolete in 4 years. Numark had a good little run with the CDX's before Serato and alot of DJ's were jumping on them proclaiming to leave turntables. Then Serato came out and a bunch of DJ's went back to 1200's
decals4djs.net 6:10 PM - 27 February, 2010
@thebuttonfreak

Hey question for you, I see that in your diagram you have to sliders mapped to the same deck, one for regular pitch and one for fine pitch, how do I do that? lol

thanks!
thebuttonfreak 6:23 PM - 27 February, 2010
when you hit Midi, you can pull down the midi tab. There will be a left and right deck, this is where you midi map cue, and load left, load right ect... you'll see two sliders one for left fine pitch and the other for right.
JRAlexander 6:28 PM - 27 February, 2010
i wanna hear a sample of what u can do with that crazy diagrammed 40
thebuttonfreak 6:37 PM - 27 February, 2010
You should see it now that I have all the autoloop feature mapped up.
thebuttonfreak 3:05 AM - 2 March, 2010
If anyone wants my midi file hit me up in pm.
thebuttonfreak 3:45 AM - 27 August, 2010
seems like the right time to raise this thread from the dead.
thebuttonfreak 4:38 AM - 27 August, 2010
current mapping
c2.ac-images.myspacecdn.com
DJSHARK 4:52 AM - 27 August, 2010
Quote:



Look at how many buttons you'd have to push to achieve what you need to achieve via MIDI.... With a turntable, you have one big platter and a record.

Listen (or read buttonfreak). In the realm of the type of music you music, there isn't much you can do but mix. At least, most people who mix your type of music basically just mix it and that's it. This is why I said, end of discussion for me. You don't have to be a turntablist to incorporate stuff that adds flavor to your mix, but with a turntable, this opens a ton of possibilities - and I don't mean scratching.

Listen to a mix that has been recorded without turntables. Now, listen to a mix that has turntablist stuff incorporated into it and you will notice that there's life to it. The other one, can basically be achieved with any 2 track (or more) recording program that also fades or that it will allow you to fade between the end of a song and the beginning of another.... all this without the need to push buttons.

This is why you said you're so much against ableton... but in reality, you're basically doing the same thing BUT just pushing more buttons in the process.



I got a headache looking at that haha.Why not just have a nice set of 1200's and a denon 1000's controller.That gets it done for me, I love it.
thebuttonfreak 4:57 AM - 27 August, 2010
It's really not that bad. I've been using it for months now and I can rock it as well as an instrument.
Dj-M.Bezzle 3:04 PM - 27 August, 2010
im still waiting on a video from thebuttonfreak