DJing Discussion

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Thoughts on the Ortofon S-120

lumas13 9:36 AM - 5 February, 2010
Finally they have a cartridge that promotes less vinyl burn, any thoughts? Think its worth it?
Sticky K 10:32 AM - 5 February, 2010
I'm also interested to see how much they going to sell for. It definitely looks promising.

I'm currently using M44-7s and I break needles like crazy and I try to be very careful. So something more durable would be great. Plus they say it has the best tracking.

The specs look very good...
El_MaUri 10:50 AM - 5 February, 2010
Yeah, I've been wondering how much those babies go for. I'm currently using the M447s as well, and they're doper than dope. So no real need for new ones... but the S120s certainly DO look nice...

Also, what are the major differences between the Concorde and OM models? Besides their looks and cartridge weight? I was looking at the DigiTracks and there seems to be a significant price difference between the two.

I've never used anything besides the M447s. Just curious to see what's the deal with that. Might jump ship on those S120s.
soul-doubt12 3:07 PM - 5 February, 2010
I use the digitracks, overpriced and but the MV output on them are acceptable, but way too overpriced
spirez 3:23 PM - 5 February, 2010
These wont be cheap. I wouldnt be surprised if you could pick up a pair of m44-7s for the price of a single one of these!

Sticky are the Shures really that fragile? I've heard nothing but good things about them.
lumas13 5:53 PM - 5 February, 2010
I was thinking about getting the tips and trying em on my Electro's and see what the hype is all about, I've been disappointed in the past from Ortofon's but they look so good though
Wazo 6:10 PM - 5 February, 2010
Quote:
These wont be cheap. I wouldnt be surprised if you could pick up a pair of m44-7s for the price of a single one of these!

Sticky are the Shures really that fragile? I've heard nothing but good things about them.


The Shure's are not that fragile. they are really solid. you cant throw them around as they are needles but the are really tough and last along time, you are correct, nothing but good things are said about them. they are really really good.

i have 4 sets of them cause i know they are just that good. gold tech headshells are teh next thing i need but those are $55 each.
Sticky K 6:52 PM - 5 February, 2010
Quote:
Sticky are the Shures really that fragile? I've heard nothing but good things about them.


They are good but 3 needles bent in 6 months. They just bend very easily. I don't even know how it happens.

Thinking of getting the ortofon pinks, the s120's will be too expensive for me.

www.turntablelab.com
fcprod1 8:38 PM - 5 February, 2010
hmm u guys know if u can just use the replacement S-120 stylus only and use it on a regular ortofone cartridge or do you have to buy the entire thing?
DJ Prinvale` 9:11 PM - 5 February, 2010
I'm curious to know why Serato team didn't work with Shure to begin with here. They (serato team) promoted the use of Shure's saying they track serato signal the best.

I hope a large sum of money from ortofon wasn't involved here. I've never been to big a fan of them.
Dj Grimey 12:26 AM - 6 February, 2010
Ok, been useing Ortofon club dj needles for about a year. Never had to replace a needle yet and it's great on tracking and scratch. Havent wear a vynil out yet, pretty mushc this needle Ortofon-Serato S-120 is what im useing now but, they incresed the tracking and weight. So it's going to be the best needle out there. PLUS ITS A DIAMOND TIP NEEDLE...DO U UNDERSTAND HOW MUHC MONEY YOU WILL SAVE. I CAN SEE THESE BEING AROUND 250 EACH... MINES WAS 180 EACH.
Dj Grimey 12:29 AM - 6 February, 2010
www.djcity.com

best way to go is those needles untill they release the new Serato edition .
DJ Awyse 12:48 AM - 6 February, 2010
I primary use Club DJs too, only switch to my M44-7s for scratching. Although if the reviews come out good for the S-120 I'm thinking of ebaying both sets to consolidate to these.
treeo730 3:44 PM - 6 February, 2010
I've used Ortofons for about 15 years and I've switched my original ones for newer ones about 2001... I replace my stylus about every 2 to 3 years. They do incur some vinyl wear, you can see the dust forming, and the handle is super fragile; I've had to superglue them a couple of times, which probably has altered the weight on these guys--it happened when I have the tone arm locked and I reach to lift the needle--..

I think these guys will go for about... I should say I hope these guys go for under the $180 mark... Honestly, anything else is just taking advantage of the loyalty people have for SSL.

Oh and no you are only suppose to use the needle with its corresponding cartridge
DJCheLu 6:18 PM - 6 February, 2010
I use digitrack and they work great but are too expensive. I used to use m447s but I was replacing a needle every month or so because of my bad habit of cleaning them at the club with my finger...... once bent it only takes another bend with the finger the wrong way and they break off. I haven't changed my digitraks since I bought them 2 years ago lol, and I still have that bad habit.

Can't wait to see how these perform.
DeezNotes 7:16 AM - 7 February, 2010
Quote:
Oh and no you are only suppose to use the needle with its corresponding cartridge

That's not entirely true.
lumas13 7:41 AM - 7 February, 2010
I been using make-shift nightclubs, broadcaste-e, and Q-berts using the same PRO cartridge for years using regular vinyl, you just get 5MV output, but no other differences
treeo730 4:47 PM - 7 February, 2010
They do fit with other stylus... I've done that, but each cartridge has its corresponding stylus.
Serato
Sean.C 3:11 AM - 8 February, 2010
Quote:
hmm u guys know if u can just use the replacement S-120 stylus only and use it on a regular ortofone cartridge or do you have to buy the entire thing?


Short answer to that one is no, the stylus is not interchangeable :)


Quote:
I'm curious to know why Serato team didn't work with Shure to begin with here. They (serato team) promoted the use of Shure's saying they track serato signal the best.


Until now...

Check the S-120 out, not only on CV but also on a regular cut. Keep an open mind and open ears :)

Cheers

S
DeezNotes 3:12 AM - 8 February, 2010
So I guess the Digitrack was targeted towards all DVS solutions and the 120 was designed for ScratchLIVE?
Dj.Mojo 8:16 AM - 8 February, 2010
There still is no real explanation why the Ortofon should be the best. Only a bunch of marketing blah blah.
Laz219 8:18 AM - 8 February, 2010
Now how many people do you think will buy them purely for the little Serato badge on it though?
Dj.Mojo 8:20 AM - 8 February, 2010
And since they are also recommended by serato.
DJ P Jay 8:51 AM - 8 February, 2010
Quote:
Now how many people do you think will buy them purely for the little Serato badge on it though?


I will for sure!
westell54 9:04 AM - 8 February, 2010
I think I might get them too. I'll wait for a decent review first though. The price will be my biggest deciding factor because they will be replacing my M44's and my Night Clubs.
skratchworx 10:15 AM - 8 February, 2010
I switched from Shure to Qbert Ortofons and haven't looked back. I dropped my 447s last week and it was like having a brick on the end of my tonearm.

Shures sound good, but visibility is poor and the needles are flimsy. I'm still not sure about this new S-120 technology - given the fact that my Qberts stick like glue, sound great and once broken in have no cue burn, I'm intrigued to see how these new ones can be better. But I'm working with Ortofon to break down carts from beginning to end to try and cut through some of the hi tech verbiage to get to the facts. The numbers quote in specs mean very little to a lot of people.
DJJOHNNYM_vSL3 10:27 AM - 8 February, 2010
Ortofons are the TRUTH. The Shures even LOOK ugly. Plus I need to see EXACTLY where the needle is when I work with regular Vinyl for needle dropping.

Ortofons + Technics Headshell = The best combination possible.

Ask Deez.
lumas13 8:06 PM - 8 February, 2010
I want to know the secret as far as breaking a "Q-BERT" or any other Ortofon in so there is absolutely no or very little cue burn at all. I've tried several methods that all result with cue burn. From fresh out the package to leaving them at the end of a record for a period of time, both with the same results "CUE BURN"
lumas13 4:43 AM - 9 February, 2010
I knew I wouldn't get a response as far as that one goes.
El_MaUri 4:55 AM - 9 February, 2010
Looks like they're gonna be retailing at 199.99 each. They're up on GC and PSSL already (pre-order of course).

Man that's pricey!! I'ma have to cut back on food and buying books next quarter to get these needles man! (not that I am anytime soon, but sure would like to)
skratchworx 9:30 AM - 9 February, 2010
Quote:
I knew I wouldn't get a response as far as that one goes.

On the contrary. On my TTXs, I put weight on full on 78rpm and leave it on an old record all night. After that, it's a simple matter of natural bedding in. Works every time for me with a normal running weight of 2.5-3g.

You'll always get cue burn even with broken in needles. Needles against vinyl will do that. But Using this method, I seem to have minimal burn these days.
DJJOHNNYM_vSL3 12:32 PM - 9 February, 2010
Quote:
I knew I wouldn't get a response as far as that one goes.


You're kidding right?

It could be that you have too much WEIGHT on the records from the door.

It could be something as simple as that....
DJ Prinvale` 4:06 PM - 9 February, 2010
Quote:
Quote:
I'm curious to know why Serato team didn't work with Shure to begin with here. They (serato team) promoted the use of Shure's saying they track serato signal the best.


Until now...

Check the S-120 out, not only on CV but also on a regular cut. Keep an open mind and open ears :)

Cheers

S


I have an open mind.

But I see this development like this...

It's like taking a car slower than a mustang and making it faster than the mustang.

Why not start w/ the mustang (shure in this case) since they were already superior?

*cough*
Dj-M.Bezzle 4:15 PM - 9 February, 2010
Because since shure already has the industry standard needle why would they want to make a product to compete with their current leader, it takes a company not in the lead trying to get that +1 position that would take the chance of making a new product or improving a existing product
DJ Prinvale` 4:43 PM - 9 February, 2010
Quote:
Because since shure already has the industry standard needle why would they want to make a product to compete with their current leader, it takes a company not in the lead trying to get that +1 position that would take the chance of making a new product or improving a existing product


That is not good business on Shure's part (or yours) if you think that once you are #1 then you don't have to do anything to innovate.

Thinking like that is why GM and Ford almost went down the drain.
skratchworx 5:02 PM - 9 February, 2010
Shure are like Technics - they have the market leader and do almost nothing to build on it. They don't need to do anything, and most certainly wouldn't be interested in pumping any cash into R&D to revive a long forgotten product line. They used to have needlz.com, but now that's dead and simply links to a dusty corner of the main Shure site.

Ortofon however make carts and only carts. It's their livelihood and want to be proactive with the company leading the way in what is left of the vinyl industry.

Like it or not, vinyl is dying. Shure simply refocus on other product lines. Ortofon however don't have any other product lines.

As for best? Well that's subjective, but I switched from Shure to Ortofon. I feel that they offer more to me that Shures do. I do however feel that its a classic this vs that scenario. Use whatever you like.
DJ Prinvale` 5:04 PM - 9 February, 2010
Quote:
Shure are like Technics - they have the market leader and do almost nothing to build on it.


MK6?
skratchworx 5:25 PM - 9 February, 2010
Oh come on - the MK6, like all the other updates has been minor at best. And the chances are that anyone outside of Japan will never see it anyway.
lumas13 6:19 PM - 9 February, 2010
As far as weight goes, I start out with 3 grams out the box bad cue burn, I make sure that the needle is balanced accordingly. I even put more weight on when I leave it at the end of a record. I still get the same results "CUE BURN' Never had this problem with Shure
DJJOHNNYM_vSL3 7:01 PM - 9 February, 2010
Quote:


Why not start w/ the mustang (shure in this case) since they were already superior?

*cough*


****rolls eyes*****

Shure = MAC = For "Entertainment" purposes Only

Ortofon = PC = For Professionals
DJJOHNNYM_vSL3 7:05 PM - 9 February, 2010
Quote:
Because since shure already has the industry standard needle why would they want to make a product to compete with their current leader, it takes a company not in the lead trying to get that +1 position that would take the chance of making a new product or improving a existing product


Who said Shure is the LEADER in anything (Except cordless MICS)....

It just so happened that SERATO endorsed them because they had the LOUDEST output.

That by no means makes you the best in the industry, just for that particular niche...maybe.

Now, Serato has seen the light and are down with the REAL DEAL.












***awaits Ortofon promotional cartridges in the mail for my services****
DJJOHNNYM_vSL3 7:13 PM - 9 February, 2010
Quote:
As far as weight goes, I start out with 3 grams out the box bad cue burn, I make sure that the needle is balanced accordingly. I even put more weight on when I leave it at the end of a record. I still get the same results "CUE BURN' Never had this problem with Shure


What brand of Ortofon?

I use OM scratch.
Dj-M.Bezzle 8:07 PM - 9 February, 2010
Quote:
Quote:
Because since shure already has the industry standard needle why would they want to make a product to compete with their current leader, it takes a company not in the lead trying to get that +1 position that would take the chance of making a new product or improving a existing product


Who said Shure is the LEADER in anything (Except cordless MICS)....

It just so happened that SERATO endorsed them because they had the LOUDEST output.

That by no means makes you the best in the industry, just for that particular niche...maybe.

Now, Serato has seen the light and are down with the REAL DEAL.












***awaits Ortofon promotional cartridges in the mail for my services****


i dont know sales figures but my guess came from the idea that since serato recomends them openly you not only have the hardcore Shure users but you have all the bedroom DJs who dont know anything about needles buying them too, plus their cheaper than most of the better performance compitition, from an overall sales perspective i couldnt really see another brand beating them but i could be wrong
Serato
Sean.C 8:37 PM - 9 February, 2010
Read this...it explains everything :)

s120ontrack.com

Basically - 2 companies, same vision, same passion, same commitment to the DJ scene. I can assure you all that S-120 is not just a branding exercise, in fact that could not be further from the truth.

And hopefully what you will find when you try them out on some regular cuts is that they sound really good....but thats up to you guys and gals to discuss :)

cheers!

S
Billy18bm 10:31 PM - 9 February, 2010
same steep ass price tag.. ill stick w/ my SHURES..
dj hes 10:46 PM - 9 February, 2010
Quote:
Quote:
Because since shure already has the industry standard needle why would they want to make a product to compete with their current leader, it takes a company not in the lead trying to get that +1 position that would take the chance of making a new product or improving a existing product


Who said Shure is the LEADER in anything (Except cordless MICS)....

It just so happened that SERATO endorsed them because they had the LOUDEST output.

That by no means makes you the best in the industry, just for that particular niche...maybe.

Now, Serato has seen the light and are down with the REAL DEAL.

Who said Shure is the leader in Wireless mics? :)

I firmly believe shure should be the industry standard in needles, at least until i hear these new ones. but i bought some ortifones before and the sucked, and if i remember correctly, they wouldnt even fit in my fancy blue undestructable shure needle case?

I have been using the 44-7s before serato, and they are the isht. who knows tho, vestax because nothing overnight as soon as rane took over...










***awaits Ortofon promotional cartridges in the mail for my services****
El_MaUri 11:18 PM - 9 February, 2010
Shure's M44-7s-- for the the price, and quality = best needles out there!

Now, Ortofon's = luxury
Culprit 1:01 AM - 10 February, 2010
Quote:
Shure's M44-7s-- for the the price, and quality = best needles out there!

Now, Ortofon's = luxury


Agreed, il give it a try tho
ninos 1:38 AM - 10 February, 2010
s120ontrack.com

any one see these pics? oh baby its sexy
DeezNotes 1:56 AM - 10 February, 2010
I agree with both skratchworx and johnny m (except that mac/pc comparison). I haven't tested cue burn on the Q-Bert carts, but the 44-7 does have less cue burn than the other Ortofons I've used - even the Scratch cart which is my preferred cart. The Scratch is a lot better at skip resistance and cue burn that the models before it, but everyone has their preference. Use what you feel is best. No one can say "this" cart is better than "that" cart if they haven't used those carts in question. If they have, then they have a good argument to support your own decisions for needles. I would suggest not just going off of a website saying "this" is the best without checking out your options - you could be missing out.
DeezNotes 2:00 AM - 10 February, 2010
Quote:
I'm working with Ortofon to break down carts from beginning to end to try and cut through some of the hi tech verbiage to get to the facts. The numbers quote in specs mean very little to a lot of people.

Looking forward to this...
wrosenbl12 2:10 AM - 10 February, 2010
i bet there is a lot of legitimacy to what they claim...but does it make that big of a difference to justify a $200 dollar needle...i highly doubt it.
Serato
Sean.C 2:26 AM - 10 February, 2010
www.guitarcenter.com

I think you will find that is for a pair :)

s
latinblood2k1 2:53 AM - 10 February, 2010
Wow if its a pair for $200 than it ant that bad
DJJOHNNYM_vSL3 3:04 AM - 10 February, 2010
Quote:

i dont know sales figures but my guess came from the idea that since serato recomends them openly you not only have the hardcore Shure users but you have all the bedroom DJs who dont know anything about needles buying them too, plus their cheaper than most of the better performance compitition, from an overall sales perspective i couldnt really see another brand beating them but i could be wrong


Yeah, I think you're wrong.

Even if you look at it from an **gasp*** EDM perspective. All those RAVE DJ's that want glow in the dark tips?

Shure's only RECENTLY started getting shine, because when Orofons originally came out, the leader was Stanton.

Then those Concords came out, and EVERYBODY went and got some.

You don't see all those flavors that came out? Blacks, Silvers, Blues, man, EVERYBODY had an Ortofon.

Then the fingerlifts started breaking off....

Then the connections started getting shaky....
lumas13 3:13 AM - 10 February, 2010
I'm pretty sure that price is for one cartridge, no way that they'll have 2 of what supposed to be the best out there for $200, especially when a set of PRO Concordes costs around $180
DJJOHNNYM_vSL3 3:13 AM - 10 February, 2010
Quote:
www.guitarcenter.com

I think you will find that is for a pair :)

s


I don't see anything there that eludes to there being 2 cartridges for 200.00.

As a matter of fact, I'm sure it CAN'T be that low, because that would essentially be 100.00 a cartridge.

The Ortofon Pro S (low end) goes for 189.99, so I'm sure there's more than a $10.00 difference in quality there.
DJJOHNNYM_vSL3 3:14 AM - 10 February, 2010
Quote:
I'm pretty sure that price is for one cartridge, no way that they'll have 2 of what supposed to be the best out there for $200, especially when a set of PRO Concordes costs around $180


You read my mind!
DJ Awyse 3:17 AM - 10 February, 2010
From what it says, the kit comes with a replacement stylus. Nothing in the description alludes to there being two of them.

Considering its the exact same case style as the Qberts (which cost $165):

www.guitarcenter.com
lumas13 3:34 AM - 10 February, 2010
If, and I say IF this were true, they can discontinue the other 14 or so models
DJJOHNNYM_vSL3 3:38 AM - 10 February, 2010
Quote:
If, and I say IF this were true, they can discontinue the other 14 or so models


I'd say they could eliminate about 6 or so models.

They still need to keep the low end, mid-range, upper, and specialty carts around.
DeezNotes 3:04 PM - 10 February, 2010
Quote:
Then those Concords came out, and EVERYBODY went and got some.

You don't see all those flavors that came out? Blacks, Silvers, Blues, man, EVERYBODY had an Ortofon.

Some of us were too broke to get them when they came out. I stuck it out with Stanton until I realized how bad my records were cue burned in comparison to friends that used Ortofons. The Stanton 500 was so CHEAP! And you could get replacement needles at Radio Shack!
DJJOHNNYM_vSL3 3:18 PM - 10 February, 2010
Quote:
Quote:
Then those Concords came out, and EVERYBODY went and got some.

You don't see all those flavors that came out? Blacks, Silvers, Blues, man, EVERYBODY had an Ortofon.

Some of us were too broke to get them when they came out. I stuck it out with Stanton until I realized how bad my records were cue burned in comparison to friends that used Ortofons. The Stanton 500 was so CHEAP! And you could get replacement needles at Radio Shack!


Stantons, then Pickerings, then (ADC/QLM MKII/III's myself), then Ortofons.

The ADC's were the absolute best.

10.99 for a replacement needle, 12.99 for the entire cartridge...

I have a million of those cartridges.
Dj-M.Bezzle 3:21 PM - 10 February, 2010
Quote:
Quote:

i dont know sales figures but my guess came from the idea that since serato recomends them openly you not only have the hardcore Shure users but you have all the bedroom DJs who dont know anything about needles buying them too, plus their cheaper than most of the better performance compitition, from an overall sales perspective i couldnt really see another brand beating them but i could be wrong


Yeah, I think you're wrong.

Even if you look at it from an **gasp*** EDM perspective. All those RAVE DJ's that want glow in the dark tips?

Shure's only RECENTLY started getting shine, because when Orofons originally came out, the leader was Stanton.

Then those Concords came out, and EVERYBODY went and got some.

You don't see all those flavors that came out? Blacks, Silvers, Blues, man, EVERYBODY had an Ortofon.

Then the fingerlifts started breaking off....

Then the connections started getting shaky....


not saying your wrong (cause as i said i have no clue what the right answer is) but im seeing alot of past tense when describing how many people had these products, if we're duscussing the current industry leader, the amonut of people who owned them in 1995 dosent really matter
DJJOHNNYM_vSL3 3:29 PM - 10 February, 2010
Duly noted. But I'm still saying a LOT more people have Ortofons than Shure's, simply because of their longevity.

Shure's may seem "Hot" now, but that also makes it seem that all DJ's have them, and that is farrr from the truth.

I could see Shure eating away at Ortofon's marketbase, and with Serato previously pushing it as the needle of CHOICE for their system, for any n00b, they would probably get the Shure's from the door.

Only more experienced DJ's would know better - but that number is static.

New DJ's = new numbers, more sales. Ortofon has to tap back into THAT market.

I mean, you have a suggestion of Shure needles in the Serato MANUAL. Nuff said.
Serato
Sean.C 7:36 PM - 10 February, 2010
my bad

www.guitarcenter.com

its for the kit...

I will go self flagellate myself now....

s
DJ Dub Cowboy 8:01 PM - 10 February, 2010
the OM kit with the Serato Headshell is pretty sexy. I was going to go Conchord S-120s but I think I just changed my mind about that.

s120ontrack.com
Lynn Sound Systems 8:19 PM - 10 February, 2010
My question is how will it compare to the Digitrack? I have the Digitrack concords , and they have been nothing but the best to me , good tracking verry stable , over 2 years use on them and never changed a stylus , (even though i have 2 brand new ones in the box still) , I also have the Pro-S concords on my home set up , that are also not bad , i do notice that they arent quite as stable as the Digiracks and the output is lower, when i go into the set up menu.
Either way im ready to grab a pair of the new s-120 concords and give em a run, Probabaly replace the Pro-S with them.
DJ Dub Cowboy 8:32 PM - 10 February, 2010
I believe I heard at the NAMM show that these are replacements to the Digitrack line.
Sticky K 8:49 PM - 10 February, 2010
All this hype about the M447s. They just too flimsy. I went through 3 replacement needles in the last 5 months - I could have bought a whole new cart+needle with that cash. And guys talk about using the same styli for over 1/2 years. So now I'm going with qberts.

P.S. I cant wait for the 120s plus they will be out of my budget...
El_MaUri 9:31 PM - 10 February, 2010
OK question... I scratch a lot, so what would be the best choice, OM or concorde?
DJJOHNNYM_vSL3 11:10 PM - 10 February, 2010
Quote:
the OM kit with the Serato Headshell is pretty sexy. I was going to go Conchord S-120s but I think I just changed my mind about that.

s120ontrack.com


Ok, that would be absolute sweetness if the headshell didn't have that old NUMARK look.

There was a turntable Numark released which was completely azz, and it had a Headshell with a LIGHT on it.

That shape reminds me of it.
DJ Dub Cowboy 11:12 PM - 10 February, 2010
ahh see that headshell reminds me of the old style technics or stanton headshells which I can't find anywhere. I'll post a pic in sec...

plus, you know I'm a sucker for anything that says Serato on it.

;-)
DJJOHNNYM_vSL3 11:15 PM - 10 February, 2010
Quote:
OK question... I scratch a lot, so what would be the best choice, OM or concorde?


OM will give you more CHOICES.

Personally, I use additional weights on my headshells, (not those screw on ones..yuck), but real weights, and I can adjust my tracking to precisely what I want.

The OM also allows you to switch up headshells if need be, and troubleshoot with more options, whereas if you had a concord, and something goes awry, you're stuck.
DJJOHNNYM_vSL3 11:18 PM - 10 February, 2010
This is a VINTAGE Technics headshell.

www.vintagetechnics.info
DJ P Jay 11:33 PM - 10 February, 2010
Prices are for one needle with a replacement stylus! In Europe the price of that kit will be around €159,-. There won't be twinset's available, I've heard from the national distributor.
DJ Dub Cowboy 11:36 PM - 10 February, 2010
these are the ones I'm talking about Johnny. Stantons I guess..

twitpic.com
DJJOHNNYM_vSL3 11:39 PM - 10 February, 2010
I see...

But me no likey...

Always down with Technics.

I did, however recently buy a single Headshell from Stanton, just for archiving purposes, with a 680EL on it.
Dj Grimey 10:52 AM - 11 February, 2010
Damn lots of responds. Here is the new Ortofon 2-120, www.djhardwares.com
lumas13 6:37 PM - 11 February, 2010
Hopefully I can get shure quality and ortofon toughness with this, I'll buy one first and see.
DJS/R 6:50 PM - 11 February, 2010
If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
terrible1fi 7:05 PM - 11 February, 2010
Quote:
If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

I think the problem here is that the m447 needle bends/breaks way too easily.
David Househead 4:29 PM - 12 February, 2010
I have been through a lot of needles in my 20+ years of Djing...
Started on Stanton 500's then moved to the 680's. Then I picked up Ortifon DJS carts.
I have Sure m447's as backups, and had Whitelabels for a while (hated them).
Also, I have used Stanton Trackmasters, and the Tonar Banana cart years ago.

The Ortifon has become my favourite cartridge by far. For me they have tracked the best, and in a/b test against the others I have tried, they have the best & loudest sound.
I just ordered replacement needles as one of mine has almost completely worn out. The other is still good, and it has been over 3 years since I bought them.

If the new S-120's are actually better than my current Ortifons, I might just have to pick up a pair!
skratchworx 4:40 PM - 12 February, 2010
Quote:
If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

You can't fix something that isn't broken. You can however make it work better. Everything can be improved.
The Return of Dj Sparky 6:10 PM - 12 February, 2010
The offical needles are just another way of generating some cash by slapping a serato lable on it, as your tracking a tone that no one hears it doesnt really make a differance what needses you use once there not jumping around
ninos 6:15 PM - 12 February, 2010
Quote:
I have been through a lot of needles in my 20+ years of Djing...
Started on Stanton 500's then moved to the 680's. Then I picked up Ortifon DJS carts.
I have Sure m447's as backups, and had Whitelabels for a while (hated them).
Also, I have used Stanton Trackmasters, and the Tonar Banana cart years ago.

The Ortifon has become my favourite cartridge by far. For me they have tracked the best, and in a/b test against the others I have tried, they have the best & loudest sound.
I just ordered replacement needles as one of mine has almost completely worn out. The other is still good, and it has been over 3 years since I bought them.

If the new S-120's are actually better than my current Ortifons, I might just have to pick up a pair!



why did you hate the whitelabels? i love mine.
Dj-M.Bezzle 7:29 PM - 12 February, 2010
Quote:
you use once there not jumping around


thats supposed to be the selling point of these needles, the tracking quality and reduced cue burn, both of which do affect serato end users in a big way
David Househead 7:30 PM - 12 February, 2010
They didn't hold while scratching nearly as well as the the ortifons, and the sound ouput was much lower. They also seemed fragile and overweight to me.
I have friends that love them though...
djchrischip 7:32 PM - 12 February, 2010
those ortofon serato om's look super sexy
Dj-M.Bezzle 7:33 PM - 12 February, 2010
Quote:
They didn't hold while scratching nearly as well as the the ortifons, and the sound ouput was much lower. They also seemed fragile and overweight to me.
I have friends that love them though...


which needles?
Dj-M.Bezzle 7:35 PM - 12 February, 2010
Quote:
those ortofon serato om's look super sexy

+1
El_MaUri 11:05 PM - 12 February, 2010
yup... guess i'ma be picking up the OM's
David Househead 1:56 AM - 13 February, 2010
Quote:
Quote:
They didn't hold while scratching nearly as well as the the ortifons, and the sound ouput was much lower. They also seemed fragile and overweight to me.
I have friends that love them though...


which needles?

sorry...I was answering ninos about the whitelabels
lumas13 8:05 AM - 14 February, 2010
Ordered 1 of em
djaction 9:24 PM - 16 February, 2010
so lemme get this straight.. two of these is $400?
Dj-M.Bezzle 9:29 PM - 16 February, 2010
more if you have to pay tax lol
djchrischip 11:46 PM - 16 February, 2010
Quote:
so lemme get this straight.. two of these is $400?

Quote:
more if you have to pay tax lol

EPIC FAIL!!
DJJOHNNYM_vSL3 1:27 AM - 17 February, 2010
Quote:
so lemme get this straight.. two of these is $400?


Basically.

However, i'm not buying cartridges that cost 4/5ths of what I paid for my 1200's when they were bought new.

Oh, and just imagine if somebody JACKED you for 1.

Whatchu gonna do?
papsworth 1:30 AM - 17 February, 2010
These are for the same people who spend 400 dollars for control vinyl on eBay.

Records that don't even have MUSIC on them!
djaction 1:37 AM - 17 February, 2010
^hahah very true.

i wouldnt trust myself with $400 needles.. clumsy + alcohol = its a wrap.

i think im gonna stick with the cheap shure m447s
Dj Farhan 1:37 AM - 17 February, 2010
Quote:
^hahah very true.

i wouldnt trust myself with $400 needles.. clumsy + alcohol = its a wrap.

i think im gonna stick with the cheap shure m447s


haha good call
the_black_one 1:39 AM - 17 February, 2010
dude..... the m447's are not cheap!!! i love them
DJJOHNNYM_vSL3 1:40 AM - 17 February, 2010
Quote:

i wouldnt trust myself with $400 needles.. clumsy + alcohol = its a wrap.


Bigger than that....

WHO would you let PLAY on those joints?

Everytime I finished my set, those headshells would come right off buddy.

I can't have noone else have an "accident" with 200.00 "apiece" needles...
the_black_one 1:44 AM - 17 February, 2010
in my humble opinion "FAIL"
Lynn Sound Systems 2:24 AM - 17 February, 2010
The digitrack kit runs $159 from PSSL so they look at it as lets add the name serato to it and some nice new style and Bang we can charge 40 bucks more each for them . there ya hve the 200 dollar price tag, they couldnt chrge less for them especialy if they r better. But i can say the digitracks are great , they last a long time.
El_MaUri 2:52 AM - 17 February, 2010
Is the cue burn really that bad on the Digitracks compared to shure? I'm thinking of getting the OM's... still debating... S120's OM or Digitrack OM
papsworth 3:12 AM - 17 February, 2010
I used Ortofon's forever before Serato. Then when I switched in 05 I bought Shure's.

Now I'm back to Ortofon's.

The Shure's are good but they are so soft, I always end up bending them and they collect dust bunnies a lot faster than the Ortofon's do. Ortofon's are way tougher needles.
DjDanimal 10:14 AM - 17 February, 2010
If you pay $400 for a pair of styli to play a control tone you are bat shit crazy. You can buy a pair of white serato vinyls on eBay and 4 m447 styli for that price, and even that is a stupid buy. No one is going to buy these! Guitar center just had M5Gs on sale by me for $599 a piece, only $200 more than a NEEDLE!?!?!?!? Get your heads out of your asses serato!!!!
the_black_one 4:43 PM - 17 February, 2010
Quote:
If you pay $400 for a pair of styli to play a control tone you are bat shit crazy. You can buy a pair of white serato vinyls on eBay and 4 m447 styli for that price, and even that is a stupid buy. No one is going to buy these! Guitar center just had M5Gs on sale by me for $599 a piece, only $200 more than a NEEDLE!?!?!?!? Get your heads out of your asses serato!!!!




what he said +100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
000000000
DeezNotes 4:59 PM - 17 February, 2010
Quote:
Is the cue burn really that bad on the Digitracks compared to shure? I'm thinking of getting the OM's... still debating... S120's OM or Digitrack OM

Shure has super low record wear. I hate using them, but its true. Especially when compared to the Digitracks.

And yeah... for $200 per cart... I'll stick with my Ortofon Pinks. Prices that high gives people the incentive to move towards CDJs or controller-based DJing. I mean... this thing doesn't even need needles: www.skratchworx.com
Dj Farhan 5:02 PM - 17 February, 2010
videos r up:

s120ontrack.com
Dj-M.Bezzle 5:15 PM - 17 February, 2010
im really eager to hear seratos defence on the price...any mods wanna chip in
the_black_one 5:21 PM - 17 February, 2010
serato is a company that needs to turn profit just like any other company out there.....needle sales are in the toilet for ortofon. Ortofon called Serato and said

"We need to work together, you will make money of everyone sold"

serao said- cool

end of story....It's all about the money!!!!
DJJOHNNYM_vSL3 5:27 PM - 17 February, 2010
Then they need to get rid of that Digitrak, drop the prince, on the 120's and call it a day.
Dj-M.Bezzle 5:34 PM - 17 February, 2010
Quote:
serato is a company that needs to turn profit just like any other company out there.....needle sales are in the toilet for ortofon. Ortofon called Serato and said

"We need to work together, you will make money of everyone sold"

serao said- cool

end of story....It's all about the money!!!!


making a product thats outta the price grasp of most users isnt the most efficent way to make money or increase sales, PS3 was a better machine at release but WII outsold it, then the 360 did too, you want to know why because they did the same thing the PS3 did (mostly) but they did it cheaper....the quality was lower but the prices on the competitiors did it cheaper making it more obtainable, i dont see how you can make a profit saying these needles will reduce record wear but sell for a greater cost of replacing the records, with these needles you will be able to keep 1 pair of records for a year...but it costs the amount of buying 27 pieces of vinyl, which is a little more than buying a new pair of vinyl once a month for 2 years.....oh ya and it tracks well.....on a system where relative mode is the norm and tracking is barley an issue
DJ Dub Cowboy 6:03 PM - 17 February, 2010
I'm looking at the Om kit for $100 and I'm good to go. I am actually pretty excited that a new needle was developed, rather than another rebadge with tweeked output. Stanton and Shure have been running the same technology for decades and yes, it works. But now something comes along that is trying to improve the technology used to play records.

I agree that $200 per concord kit is steep, however....

That is a pre-sale price, we'll have to see after they get shipped what it works out to be.
the_black_one 6:08 PM - 17 February, 2010
Quote:
I'm looking at the Om kit for $100 and I'm good to go. I am actually pretty excited that a new needle was developed, rather than another rebadge with tweeked output. Stanton and Shure have been running the same technology for decades and yes, it works. But now something comes along that is trying to improve the technology used to play records.

I agree that $200 per concord kit is steep, however....

That is a pre-sale price, we'll have to see after they get shipped what it works out to be.



dub..... i got respect for you and your love for serato branded items. You are the target customer, if you slap a serato label, a customer like you will probably pick it up. Nothing wrong with that if you have the money to do so.
DJ Dub Cowboy 6:21 PM - 17 February, 2010
no denying that...I'll be getting the white S-120s.

However, I have been looking at Ortofons for about a year and trying to figure out which ones to get. I finally decided on the Scratch Pinks, because of the low record burn and then this comes along and gives me everything I want.

Also I don't trip on the price. I have a business degree so I would like to think I have a good sense about when the price is jacked just for the sake of it or if the price is high because it's worth it. The TTM57 is the most expensive mixer I have purchased but it also is the best investment I have made in my DJ set-up. I always say, you got to spend money to make money.
Dj-M.Bezzle 6:28 PM - 17 February, 2010
Quote:
I have a business degree so I would like to think I have a good sense about when the price is jacked just for the sake of it or if the price is high because it's worth it.


i have a busniess degree too and im fuunctionally retarded
the_black_one 6:30 PM - 17 February, 2010
i really don't care about ortofons for 2 reasons.

1) they eat up my CV quickly( my turntables are well balanced)

2) when i pick up the needle and place it at the start of the CV, the ortofons dont give me the beginning of the track, it gives me like 3 to 4 sec into the track.I have to back track the record.

3)like you dub, I like diff CV and look after it and love to have them for a long time
DJUnknown 6:31 PM - 17 February, 2010
My contact quoted me a price of $140 each, but I still ain't getting them!
DJ Dub Cowboy 6:36 PM - 17 February, 2010
Quote:
Quote:
I have a business degree so I would like to think I have a good sense about when the price is jacked just for the sake of it or if the price is high because it's worth it.


i have a busniess degree too and im fuunctionally retarded


and that is OKAY.
Dj-M.Bezzle 6:41 PM - 17 February, 2010
lol
dj hes 6:44 PM - 17 February, 2010
Quote:
Quote:
I have a business degree so I would like to think I have a good sense about when the price is jacked just for the sake of it or if the price is high because it's worth it.


i have a busniess degree too and im fuunctionally retarded


Bezz, your not old enuf to have a degree yet are you? lol
Dj-M.Bezzle 6:57 PM - 17 February, 2010
lol im old enough to have a masters
DeezNotes 7:25 PM - 17 February, 2010
Quote:
i really don't care about ortofons for 2 reasons.

1) they eat up my CV quickly( my turntables are well balanced)

2) when i pick up the needle and place it at the start of the CV, the ortofons dont give me the beginning of the track, it gives me like 3 to 4 sec into the track.I have to back track the record.

3)like you dub, I like diff CV and look after it and love to have them for a long time

Something doesn't sound right about those first two.

Your turntables can be balanced as far as being on a balanced surface, but to balance your tonearm is something different. Balancing your tonearm is the first step to setting the correct weight. You also have to align your cartridge to 52mm which is different from balancing - but the 52mm rule goes out the window if you angle your cart outward to improve tracking, which is something most 44-7 users do. That's one way Concordes win - they are lined at exactly 52mm which can easily be a little off when using a headshell mounted cart. Weight and cartridge angle play a big role in record wear, so maybe you know all this already and just summed up all this in your above statement?

Also, if you're not able to place the needle at the beginning of a record.. I'm not sure you can say Ortofons can't do this? If anything, it is much easier to see an Ortofon needle in the groove than it is a 44-7, which in turn should make it easier to place the needle in the proper groove - no matter where it is on the record. If you have a crap record with a wacky play-in groove or a crazy vertical slope, then the needle is not to blame.
djchrischip 10:56 PM - 17 February, 2010
Quote:
im really eager to hear seratos defence on the price...any mods wanna chip in

+1
bnutz 11:57 PM - 17 February, 2010
SHURE 44GS are my thing. never fail.
cheap as fuck.
why would i change that?
you cant see where the needle is going down? you need to practice more.
and really? you need to see where the needle is going? we use serato. just drop it and go.
Culprit 6:08 AM - 18 February, 2010
stops tracking
lumas13 2:15 PM - 18 February, 2010
Hopefully its worth all the hype
DJJOHNNYM_vSL3 4:32 PM - 18 February, 2010
Quote:

and really? you need to see where the needle is going? we use serato. just drop it and go.




****sigh****

So, I take it you don't use regular vinyl....
Billy18bm 11:25 PM - 18 February, 2010
whats regular vinyl?
the_black_one 11:56 PM - 18 February, 2010
Quote:
whats regular vinyl?




******FACEPALM*******
Billy18bm 12:03 AM - 19 February, 2010
lmao im kidding.. but serato vinyl is real vinyl.. and if u can cue it you can cue "regular vinyl" becuase they are the same thing.
the_black_one 12:12 AM - 19 February, 2010
Quote:
lmao im kidding.. but serato vinyl is real vinyl.. and if u can cue it you can cue "regular vinyl" becuase they are the same thing.



MAN.... all records are diff.Some are thicker than others.Some records groove is not as good as other records...the variation back in the day was huge.Some were lighter than others.

With CV is a whole diff ball game.back in they day you had to adjust on the fly(adjusting your release because of the feel of each record).Now, the learning curve is very small.
Billy18bm 12:30 AM - 19 February, 2010
word, but i thought we were talking about the getttin the needle in the first grove of the record.
Nick Fury 12:50 AM - 19 February, 2010
Not to thread jack or anything but is there a big difference between the Qberts and Digitracks? I'm trying to decide on what pair to pick up
BERTO 1:00 AM - 19 February, 2010
way too expensive for my budget
djchrischip 1:06 AM - 19 February, 2010
digi's
DJJOHNNYM_vSL3 1:33 AM - 19 February, 2010
Quote:
word, but i thought we were talking about the getttin the needle in the first grove of the record.


Not the 1st GROOVE of the record, but the ability to Needle Drop exactly where you need it to be.
DeezNotes 2:43 PM - 19 February, 2010
Quote:
Not to thread jack or anything but is there a big difference between the Qberts and Digitracks? I'm trying to decide on what pair to pick up

I have them both and it's really hard for me to distinguish the differences. We need someone from Ortofon to clear up the differences between each cart. And no marketing BS - true facts about each cart that actually means something to a regular DJ.
Lynn Sound Systems 3:27 PM - 20 February, 2010
Is the issue of cue burn realy an issue at all ?? if your using realitive mode it shouldnt be, and to me CV is just an expendable record , when it wears flip it when thats done toss it and get another , simple concept , I have like 5 pairs i use always changin em up so they last 4 ever anyway. But who cares if you have to spend 30 bucks a year on cv , its cheap and expendable. And yeah if your not heavy handed and have the weigth all the way foward , another weight glued to the top of your cartridge and the tone arm raised to the higest setting you shouldnt be wearing out CV.
lumas13 4:44 PM - 20 February, 2010
Cue burn is always an issue, I still play regular vinyl sometimes, sure the CV is expendable, but why wear any vinyl faster if there's supposedly a cartridge to counter this.
Dj Farhan 9:20 PM - 21 February, 2010
since we r on the topic of m44-7s, quick question, i just got mine and i played with them for the first time last night. the signal is 100% perfect, but it looks like the whole needle is resting on the cv, take a look at these pics to see what i am trying to talk about:

photos-f.ak.fbcdn.net

hphotos-snc3.fbcdn.net

what i am trying to say is that there is barely any space between the control vinyl and the needle, so looks like the black part behind the white stylus part is touching my cv,

is this usual? is this going to wear my cv faster? how can i make it better? i tried to push the needle down a bit it looks super sensitive and might break easily. thanks for the help in advance
lumas13 9:41 PM - 21 February, 2010
Too much weight
Dj Farhan 9:43 PM - 21 February, 2010
ok, it is at 3, i guess i should lower it, i dont have any weight on the headshell as u can see
Dj-M.Bezzle 3:46 PM - 22 February, 2010
Quote:
Cue burn is always an issue, I still play regular vinyl sometimes, sure the CV is expendable, but why wear any vinyl faster if there's supposedly a cartridge to counter this.



when the cartridge that prevents this cost like tripple the cost of just replacing the vinyl mormally then its not a good solutuion...now real vinyl ok ya id pay more because you dont know how replaceable that vinyl is but for CVs, not a good solution
DeezNotes 4:12 PM - 22 February, 2010
Quote:
since we r on the topic of m44-7s, quick question, i just got mine and i played with them for the first time last night. the signal is 100% perfect, but it looks like the whole needle is resting on the cv, take a look at these pics to see what i am trying to talk about:

photos-f.ak.fbcdn.net

hphotos-snc3.fbcdn.net

what i am trying to say is that there is barely any space between the control vinyl and the needle, so looks like the black part behind the white stylus part is touching my cv,

is this usual? is this going to wear my cv faster? how can i make it better? i tried to push the needle down a bit it looks super sensitive and might break easily. thanks for the help in advance

That's another problem I have with 44-7s. Some people say the needle is "fragile" or "weak" but I guess it's the bearing in the needle that allows it to move the way it does. This can also let the cartridge body get VERY close to the vinyl and cause other issues. If you have a slightly warped record, it's game over when using these needles. Also, when DJing in certain places where things can be unstable (like on a boat), that can also cause issues.

You can lower the weight to get the body away from the vinyl, but you may compromise some skip resistance.
Dj Farhan 4:15 PM - 22 February, 2010
thanks man, appareciate it
Dj Farhan 4:15 PM - 22 February, 2010
appreciate*
VP 2:51 AM - 23 February, 2010
Quote:
appreciate*

i had the same problem what i did was raise the arm base.
u could also try bend them a lil bit. but thats a little risky..

s632.photobucket.com

those r m44-7 replacement that cost i think around $7. i got them a year ago.. and there's plenty of them on ebay new...
ppl here must be joking even considering buying something that small for $200.

i got 2 tt500s with shure carts and needles for $225. 2 brand new ttx's for $300 free shipping with shure white label carts and needles (that ive never used). no way in hell i'd spend $200 for these needles even if they cost $100 each..

serato keeps milking ppl for what they have...
Billy18bm 4:35 AM - 23 February, 2010
m447 replacements for 7$ hahaha now thats funny
VP 9:24 PM - 23 February, 2010
Quote:
m447 replacements for 7$ hahaha now thats funny

i showed u the picture right there.
i632.photobucket.com

$200 is ridiculous. i cant remember how much they were coz i bought them so long ago. but i know i got 2 for a total of less than $20.
i also have an ortofon om pro stylus i got some ridiculous cheap crack price on ebay new from one of those needle dealers, that has lasted me 2 years.
i've spent a total of less than $50 on needles and what i have right now is gonna last me at least 5 years.
when i dont wanna be cheap i use the shure whitelabels.
Dj-M.Bezzle 9:28 PM - 23 February, 2010
Quote:

$200 is ridiculous. i cant remember how much they were coz i bought them so long ago. but i know i got 2 for a total of less than $20..



ya but you gotta consider the 15 miles up hill through the snow you had to walk to get them and the nickel you had to splurge on to get a pepsi when you got thirsty from all that walkin
VP 12:16 AM - 24 February, 2010
Quote:
Quote:

$200 is ridiculous. i cant remember how much they were coz i bought them so long ago. but i know i got 2 for a total of less than $20..



ya but you gotta consider the 15 miles up hill through the snow you had to walk to get them and the nickel you had to splurge on to get a pepsi when you got thirsty from all that walkin

lol actually the only walking i did was on google. when i was first looking for the ortofon om pro that came with the 1200, which led me to some forum and a dude posted the link of some bootleg carts. then got the part numbers of the om pro's and searched for them on ebay.
there'r all sorts of knocks offs of all sorts of stylus that fit on oem carts.
Dj-M.Bezzle 12:38 AM - 24 February, 2010
Quote:

those r m44-7 replacement that cost i think around $7. i got them a year ago.. and there's plenty of them on ebay new...
ppl here must be joking even considering buying something that small for $200.
..

Quote:

there'r all sorts of knocks offs of all sorts of stylus that fit on oem carts.


ok this makes sense now
bnutz 5:17 PM - 6 March, 2010
Quote:
Quote:

and really? you need to see where the needle is going? we use serato. just drop it and go.




****sigh****

So, I take it you don't use regular vinyl....



oh i carried crates for years. now serato keeps my records at home and ailows us to do all sorts of fun stuff.

i miss the wax though. at least getting it every week.
BERTO 6:18 PM - 6 March, 2010
ok the ortofon U.S.A headquartrers is an hour away from me where going to put together a team and infiltrate the warehouse, then we will sell the ortofons for 30 a peice, with the price of 2 bills there is no way im ever going to buy them, whos with me?
BERTO 6:18 PM - 6 March, 2010
piece***
lumas13 12:15 PM - 8 March, 2010
Got 2 OM's on the way for 2 bills.
DJJOHNNYM_vSL3 12:53 PM - 8 March, 2010
Quote:
Got 2 OM's on the way for 2 bills.


2 Bills APIECE?
DJMark 1:56 PM - 8 March, 2010
I still like the Shure Whitelabels, if you need the occasional "real" record to sound good.

Ortofons always sound way too harsh.
ninos 9:45 PM - 8 March, 2010
^^ word. been using them for about a year now.
C. William 10:50 PM - 8 March, 2010
Quote:
If you pay $400 for a pair of styli to play a control tone you are bat shit crazy. You can buy a pair of white serato vinyls on eBay and 4 m447 styli for that price, and even that is a stupid buy. No one is going to buy these! Guitar center just had M5Gs on sale by me for $599 a piece, only $200 more than a NEEDLE!?!?!?!? Get your heads out of your asses serato!!!!


for real
Leo Mann 10:57 PM - 8 March, 2010
Quote:
Quote:
If you pay $400 for a pair of styli to play a control tone you are bat shit crazy. You can buy a pair of white serato vinyls on eBay and 4 m447 styli for that price, and even that is a stupid buy. No one is going to buy these! Guitar center just had M5Gs on sale by me for $599 a piece, only $200 more than a NEEDLE!?!?!?!? Get your heads out of your asses serato!!!!


for real


+1
Leo Mann 11:01 PM - 8 March, 2010
but i would still like some! just not for that much...
DJ'Que 1:02 AM - 9 March, 2010
just got off the phone with pro sound and their $200 each. What was funny was the guy goes stick a serato logo on them and raise the price. He was like ortofons make's cheaper digital Needles for the digital DJ. He tryed to sell me the m-447's in stead saying they have the best output and tracking.
El_MaUri 1:17 PM - 3 April, 2010
So what's the verdict????? Yay?....Nay?...
lumas13 6:45 AM - 4 April, 2010
Still waiting on em
Dj Farhan 7:36 PM - 4 April, 2010
u actually bought em?
lumas13 12:23 AM - 5 April, 2010
the OM's yep
Dj Farhan 12:44 AM - 5 April, 2010
oh i thought we were talkin bout the s-120s.
lumas13 2:36 AM - 5 April, 2010
S-120 OM's
Dj Farhan 4:40 AM - 5 April, 2010
ma b
DJ Doug Collins 12:23 AM - 18 April, 2010
Sure M447 on headshell + Extra stylus= app. $125.00

So you're paying $250 for a set with extra stylus'. I actually did go purchase the Concorde S-120's today. I got them for 350 for the pair. If they suck, I'll be sure to let you know and hang my head in shame lol.
DJJOHNNYM_vSL3 12:24 AM - 18 April, 2010
^^^ YOU are a baller....
DJ Doug Collins 12:25 AM - 18 April, 2010
**Shure
DJ Doug Collins 12:26 AM - 18 April, 2010
Quote:
^^^ YOU are a baller....

I'll do anything to write shit off on taxes for next year and not have to pay Uncle Sam 3 G's like I did this year. I'm not a baller lol
lumas13 4:48 PM - 18 April, 2010
The Om's still on backorder and I ordered them like a month ago
Henry GQ 5:02 PM - 18 April, 2010
i got the sl-120s. they are good. as good as my white lables. and i think they are gonna last alot longer. they dont pick up as much dust either. they track incredibly well. as far as sound goes. i have not heard anything different. even with my sl-3

i used them with my guitar cent collectors vinyl. yeah. bad idea... i burned 2 stylus in one night. dont ask me why.. it just happened.... i think it was the vinyl. so not worth the money...
lumas13 5:08 PM - 18 April, 2010
You try em on regular vinyl
Henry GQ 5:14 PM - 18 April, 2010
nope. i sold my collection years ago.
nik39 5:17 PM - 18 April, 2010
Quote:
nope. i sold my collection years ago.

Whut?
Henry GQ 5:20 PM - 18 April, 2010
dood. i crashed my buddies snow mobile. did alot of damage to it. i had no other choice but to sell my shit, i was broke. had no money in the bank. and nothin else to sell that was worth anything...
DJ Doug Collins 8:13 PM - 18 April, 2010
First impressions from last night: UNIMPRESSED. The tracking isn't nearly as good as the M44-7s, although this may be because I don't have the tone arm correctly calibrated. I'm not going to give up on them just yet. I need to experiment with the tone arm weight and height before I pass final judgement. I'm also going to play some regular records today to see what the sound is like compared to the Shure's. Obviously if all I was ever planning on playing was control vinyl, I think I'd have to say I wasted my money. But I'll run them through a few tests before I decide on taking them back to Guitar Center and throwing them at the "knowledgeable" sales people.
Serato
Sean.C 11:33 PM - 18 April, 2010
Hi DJ Doug Collins

thanks for your posts.

A couple of things jump out right away....setting up the tone arm correctly will definitely help (although in saying that a major part of our testing involved putting S-120 through its paces on a bent tone arm with the weight on backwards). It sounds like you have a good handle on this but if want some advice on setting things up just yell out and we can help.

And we would love to hear your thoughts on the sound of S-120 on regular vinyl when compared to other carts.

If you are a scratch DJ then the OM version may be better suited as this can be set up in a "straight" configuration on a bent tonearm (in the same way a 44-7 can be config'ed).

Please let me know how you get on.

Cheers!

S
DJJOHNNYM_vSL3 11:39 PM - 18 April, 2010
Quote:
nope. i sold my collection years ago.


You bought 400 worth of needles for CONTROL VINYL?
DJJOHNNYM_vSL3 11:40 PM - 18 April, 2010
Quote:
i burned 2 stylus in one night. dont ask me why.. it just happened.... i think it was the vinyl. so not worth the money...


AND you burned 2 slylus?

Dude...
djjoefresh 11:46 PM - 18 April, 2010
I got a pair of S-120's last week, used them for the first time at last night's gig. Until now I've been using the Shure 44-7's and have been very happy with them, I was more curious than anything else about the 120's and thought I'd give them a try. I use Technics SL-1200 MK2 with S-shaped tonearms.

On first using them, I was able to notice a significant improvement on tracking, I worked the vinyl pretty hard and it didn't skip or lose control position once. Scratching performance felt different for some reason, but I was able to get used to it fairly quickly.

Very little dust buildup, which was great to get a break from after years of brushing the dust off of my 44-7's every 15 minutes.

Overall, I'm impressed, I think I'll keep them. The price is a little steep, but you do get a replacement stylus with the cartridge, and a cool case to safely carry them in. They should last a good long time too.
Henry GQ 4:36 PM - 19 April, 2010
yeah johnny, when u got the money.. spend it. i make enough with my gigs. i was curious, so i bought them. the shure white lables IMO are a bit better but they burn up ur CV's and i go thru needles like crazy, its all an experiment.
DJJOHNNYM_vSL3 5:25 PM - 19 April, 2010
Sheettt...well YOU must be ballin' cuz I ain't "Experimenting" with 400 bucks.
Henry GQ 5:33 PM - 19 April, 2010
not balling. i do ok with my money. so i can try stuff out, plus if i dont like it. put it up on ebay.. and lose a little bit of money.. o well.
nik39 5:54 PM - 19 April, 2010
Quote:
yeah johnny, when u got the money.. spend it. i make enough with my gigs.

Then why do you sell your records if you run out of money if you make enough money with your gigs?`
Henry GQ 5:56 PM - 19 April, 2010
this was years ago that i sold my records. when i wasnt good with money. plus i wrecked my buddies snow mobile, and that was the only thing i had worth anything.
Dj-M.Bezzle 5:57 PM - 19 April, 2010
Quote:
Quote:
yeah johnny, when u got the money.. spend it. i make enough with my gigs.

Then why do you sell your records if you run out of money if you make enough money with your gigs?`



good point nik!!
Dj-M.Bezzle 5:57 PM - 19 April, 2010
Quote:
this was years ago that i sold my records. when i wasnt good with money. plus i wrecked my buddies snow mobile, and that was the only thing i had worth anything.



so logically speaking after selling them you were worthless?!?
Henry GQ 5:58 PM - 19 April, 2010
shut up bezzle.
nik39 5:59 PM - 19 April, 2010
Quote:
Quote:
this was years ago that i sold my records. when i wasnt good with money. plus i wrecked my buddies snow mobile, and that was the only thing i had worth anything.



so logically speaking after selling them you were worthless?!?

No. after selling his records he made money with DJing... automatch-beat-it-waveform-microwave.

Go figure ;)

Yes mixing real records is a bit more difficult :-D
Dj-M.Bezzle 6:01 PM - 19 April, 2010
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
this was years ago that i sold my records. when i wasnt good with money. plus i wrecked my buddies snow mobile, and that was the only thing i had worth anything.



so logically speaking after selling them you were worthless?!?

No. after selling his records he made money with DJing... automatch-beat-it-waveform-microwave.

Go figure ;)

Yes mixing real records is a bit more difficult :-D



LMFAO @ begining to make money after selling the records and goin digital
Henry GQ 6:03 PM - 19 April, 2010
hey, i had to pay alot of money fix his snow mobile. and i was already using cds at that time. i had the pioneer 800's and the numark cdx-01s. so i was using those to spin...
nik39 6:04 PM - 19 April, 2010
Oh, CDs. I thought you were talking about vinyls when you said you had records.

Didn't know people mean cds when they say records. CD-records?
Dj-M.Bezzle 6:07 PM - 19 April, 2010
you sold a cd collection....wow
Dj-M.Bezzle 6:07 PM - 19 April, 2010
.....you made enough money selling your cd collection to pay for a snow mobile....DOUBLE WOW
Henry GQ 6:21 PM - 19 April, 2010
bezzle why dont u go make more some more racial comments in another thread ur a bigger retard than i thought.

and why dont u guys go pick some noob. morons.

dont be hating cuz u cant afford shit. wtf?
Dj-M.Bezzle 6:24 PM - 19 April, 2010
Quote:

and why dont u guys go pick some noob. morons.


i thought thats what we were doing??
WarpNote 6:27 PM - 19 April, 2010
Quote:
Quote:

and why dont u guys go pick some noob. morons.


i thought thats what we were doing??

Yo Henry, lighten up, they're just having a laugh ;-)
Dj-M.Bezzle 6:27 PM - 19 April, 2010
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:

and why dont u guys go pick some noob. morons.


i thought thats what we were doing??

Yo Henry, lighten up, they're just having a laugh ;-)



+1, i kid i kid
nik39 6:31 PM - 19 April, 2010
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:

and why dont u guys go pick some noob. morons.


i thought thats what we were doing??

Yo Henry, lighten up, they're just having a laugh ;-)

+2 :)
Henry GQ 6:34 PM - 19 April, 2010
i cant laugh. its too hard. it hurts.
nik39 6:49 PM - 19 April, 2010
Quote:
i cant stop laughung. its too hard. it hurts.

Yeah, I heard laughing is good for your health, but you should not laugh that much that it hurts.

And BTW - it was not *that* funny ;)
DJJOHNNYM_vSL3 7:00 PM - 19 April, 2010
Quote:
Quote:
yeah johnny, when u got the money.. spend it. i make enough with my gigs.

Then why do you sell your records if you run out of money if you make enough money with your gigs?`


ZING.
DJJOHNNYM_vSL3 7:01 PM - 19 April, 2010
Quote:
bezzle why dont u go make more some more racial comments in another thread ur a bigger retard than i thought.


Never EVER underestimate how much of a retard Bezzle can be...

He will amaze you.
Dj-M.Bezzle 7:36 PM - 19 April, 2010
Quote:
Quote:
bezzle why dont u go make more some more racial comments in another thread ur a bigger retard than i thought.


Never EVER underestimate how much of a retard Bezzle can be...

He will amaze you.



hell i amaze myself sometimes
Henry GQ 7:58 PM - 19 April, 2010
way to ruin a thread.
Henry GQ 8:05 PM - 19 April, 2010
is there a phone number or video on how to correctly set ur needles ?
Serato
Sean.C 8:05 PM - 19 April, 2010
as my post to DJ Doug Collins was buried amongst the intelligent chitter chatter above, I thought I should post it again:

Hi DJ Doug Collins

thanks for your posts.

A couple of things jump out right away....setting up the tone arm correctly will definitely help (although in saying that a major part of our testing involved putting S-120 through its paces on a bent tone arm with the weight on backwards). It sounds like you have a good handle on this but if want some advice on setting things up just yell out and we can help.

And we would love to hear your thoughts on the sound of S-120 on regular vinyl when compared to other carts.

If you are a scratch DJ then the OM version may be better suited as this can be set up in a "straight" configuration on a bent tonearm (in the same way a 44-7 can be config'ed).

Please let me know how you get on.

Cheers!

S
skratchworx 8:10 PM - 19 April, 2010
Quote:
I got a pair of S-120's last week, used them for the first time at last night's gig. Until now I've been using the Shure 44-7's and have been very happy with them, I was more curious than anything else about the 120's and thought I'd give them a try. I use Technics SL-1200 MK2 with S-shaped tonearms.

On first using them, I was able to notice a significant improvement on tracking, I worked the vinyl pretty hard and it didn't skip or lose control position once. Scratching performance felt different for some reason, but I was able to get used to it fairly quickly.

Echoes my findings. I used Qberfons so the switch to s120s was easy. After breaking in, they act much the same albeit sticking to the vinyl just that little bit better when doing extreme scratch techniques.

I'm using TTX/STR8-150 with straight arms.
Henry GQ 8:11 PM - 19 April, 2010
scratch wheres ur website been >?
Henry GQ 8:12 PM - 19 April, 2010
nevermind. i must have been going to the wrong url
Dj-M.Bezzle 8:18 PM - 19 April, 2010
Quote:
Quote:
I got a pair of S-120's last week, used them for the first time at last night's gig. Until now I've been using the Shure 44-7's and have been very happy with them, I was more curious than anything else about the 120's and thought I'd give them a try. I use Technics SL-1200 MK2 with S-shaped tonearms.

On first using them, I was able to notice a significant improvement on tracking, I worked the vinyl pretty hard and it didn't skip or lose control position once. Scratching performance felt different for some reason, but I was able to get used to it fairly quickly.

Echoes my findings. I used Qberfons so the switch to s120s was easy. After breaking in, they act much the same albeit sticking to the vinyl just that little bit better when doing extreme scratch techniques.

I'm using TTX/STR8-150 with straight arms.


skratchworx, one word answer, are they worth the money
skratchworx 11:35 PM - 19 April, 2010
I don't do one word answers.

I've found nothing wrong with them - indeed they do stick marginally better than my Qberfons. Can't really comment in detail on sound, but again, there's nothing wrong with what I've heard so far.

I'll spend more time with them and give a better opinion.
DJJOHNNYM_vSL3 11:56 PM - 19 April, 2010
Quote:

skratchworx, one word answer, are they worth the money


Bezzle, WHO are you FOOLIN?

You know you ain't HARDLY about to spend 400 bucks on some needles in a 1 horse town...
Henry GQ 1:54 AM - 20 April, 2010
so true johnny. plus bezzle ur djin a bar thats dead. where u gettin money kid ? ur not.
u probally dont even have 1200s.

but.. are they worth the money. if u have it... sure. if u dont .. no. pretty simple.
Dj.Mojo 7:21 AM - 20 April, 2010
You guys keep bashing each other like little kids. Fun to read :-)
DJ_Phenom 7:59 AM - 20 April, 2010
Quote:
yeah johnny, when u got the money.. spend it. i make enough with my gigs. i was curious, so i bought them. the shure white lables IMO are a bit better but they burn up ur CV's and i go thru needles like crazy, its all an experiment.


That's weird i've never had a record wear issue with my whitelabels. I like them more than my 447s, and I don't have I have $400 to spend on more needles for CV. I will say one problem I have found on the whitelabels is that the styli are very easy to bend tho(could be my heavy handedness)
DJ_Phenom 8:00 AM - 20 April, 2010
- i have*
Dj-M.Bezzle 2:19 PM - 20 April, 2010
Quote:
so true johnny. plus bezzle ur djin a bar thats dead. where u gettin money kid ? ur not.
u probally dont even have 1200s.
.


your right.....i have 1210's ;)...its called a day job kid and im keepin it
Henry GQ 4:35 PM - 20 April, 2010
u should keep it =]
Dj-M.Bezzle 4:39 PM - 20 April, 2010
Quote:
u should keep it =]



you should get one ;)
Henry GQ 5:11 PM - 20 April, 2010
i have one..
Dj-M.Bezzle 6:27 PM - 20 April, 2010
Quote:
i have one..

u should keep it =]
Henry GQ 7:10 PM - 20 April, 2010
dont need it. just xtra money... and have done everythign i can in my own city..

what the hell am i trying to prove ? ur nobody
Dj-M.Bezzle 7:31 PM - 20 April, 2010
Quote:
dont need it. just xtra money... and have done everythign i can in my own city..

what the hell am i trying to prove ? ur nobody


you tell me you seem like your trying to prove something to me so i must be somebody lol
djjoefresh 7:40 PM - 20 April, 2010
I wish the S-120's came in a twin pack so I could carry them in one case. The Ortofon-Serato case they come in is great, but it only holds one cartridge. I had to take the insert out of a regular Ortofon twin pack case to make this happen.
Henry GQ 7:40 PM - 20 April, 2010
nah. ur just some homo that annoys the shit out of anyone. ur claim to fame
Henry GQ 7:40 PM - 20 April, 2010
kinda like perez hilton
Henry GQ 7:41 PM - 20 April, 2010
i agree fresh
Dj-M.Bezzle 7:50 PM - 20 April, 2010
Quote:
nah. ur just some homo that annoys the shit out of anyone. ur claim to fame



so you admit im famous?
Dj-M.Bezzle 7:50 PM - 20 April, 2010
awsome
Henry GQ 7:50 PM - 20 April, 2010
NOPE. NEVER SAID THAT
Dj-M.Bezzle 7:51 PM - 20 April, 2010
btw henry, i was inside information that someone will be making a $1500 offer on your SL3 on ebay, its totally legit, for real,seriosuly, that things sure to sell quick now ;)
Dj-M.Bezzle 7:52 PM - 20 April, 2010
Quote:
nah. ur just some homo that annoys the shit out of anyone. ur claim to fame

Quote:
NOPE. NEVER SAID THAT



really?
Henry GQ 7:53 PM - 20 April, 2010
blah!

seriously dont mess with my ebay auction LOL
Henry GQ 7:54 PM - 20 April, 2010
its up to 560 bucks
Serato
Sean.C 7:58 PM - 20 April, 2010
can you guys please refrain from using this thread for your bickering?

Quote:
I wish the S-120's came in a twin pack so I could carry them in one case. The Ortofon-Serato case they come in is great, but it only holds one cartridge. I had to take the insert out of a regular Ortofon twin pack case to make this happen.


check with your local Guitar Centre...It was announced at the Musik Messe that the S-120 CC is now available as a twin pack...not sure of the pricing but I think it may be MSRP $299.00 (ie the same price as the old Digitrak, dont quote me on it!)

thanks

S
Henry GQ 7:59 PM - 20 April, 2010
great.i paid 100 bucks too much. wack
Henry GQ 8:00 PM - 20 April, 2010
i wasnt even in a rush
djjoefresh 8:06 PM - 20 April, 2010
Aaah I knew I should've waited.

As of now Guitar Center's website doesn't show a twin pack, but it makes sense that Ortofon/Serato would make a twin pack available.

Thanks for the heads up Sean!
Dj.Mojo 8:19 AM - 21 April, 2010
Quote:
btw henry, i was inside information that someone will be making a $1500 offer on your SL3 on ebay, its totally legit, for real,seriosuly, that things sure to sell quick now ;)

Another wrecked snow mobile?
DJJOHNNYM_vSL3 11:38 AM - 21 April, 2010
Quote:
can you guys please refrain from using this thread for your bickering?


Quote:
I wish the S-120's came in a twin pack so I could carry them in one case. The Ortofon-Serato case they come in is great, but it only holds one cartridge. I had to take the insert out of a regular Ortofon twin pack case to make this happen.


check with your local Guitar Centre...It was announced at the Musik Messe that the S-120 CC is now available as a twin pack...not sure of the pricing but I think it may be MSRP $299.00 (ie the same price as the old Digitrak, dont quote me on it!)

thanks

S


300 for 2? NOW you will get sales....
El_MaUri 10:26 PM - 22 April, 2010
I just got a pair of the OM's, and can't seem to set them up right. They keep skipping when back cueing, scratching and attempting to juggle on real vinyl. Not good so far.

I've been messing with them all afternoon--changing the angle of the needle, trying diff. tonearm heights, adjusting tracking force, messing with the anti-skate... I'm out of ideas.

Any suggestions?

These are about to go back.....
Serato
Sean.C 10:58 PM - 22 April, 2010
Hi El_MaUri

Like any stylus they will need to be "broken" in a bit so i would stick at it for a while. Best way to break them in is to just let them play on some vinyls (or on the inner most groove of a Control Vinyl) for a few hours/ overnight....this will loosen up the suspension somewhat and they should come right!

Let us know how you get on.

Cheers

S
Joee 11:01 PM - 22 April, 2010
Quote:
I just got a pair of the OM's, and can't seem to set them up right. They keep skipping when back cueing, scratching and attempting to juggle on real vinyl. Not good so far.

I've been messing with them all afternoon--changing the angle of the needle, trying diff. tonearm heights, adjusting tracking force, messing with the anti-skate... I'm out of ideas.

Any suggestions?

These are about to go back.....

did you put a gram weight on it, something we always had to do before the m44-7
Joee 11:16 PM - 22 April, 2010
we need some real input on these carts, i'm waiting,& waiting &&&&&&&& waiting i wan't to get a pair but not if there no better than the m44 7,

i'm not spending $400 just to say look what i got.......
El_MaUri 11:17 PM - 22 April, 2010
Quote:
Quote:
I just got a pair of the OM's, and can't seem to set them up right. They keep skipping when back cueing, scratching and attempting to juggle on real vinyl. Not good so far.

I've been messing with them all afternoon--changing the angle of the needle, trying diff. tonearm heights, adjusting tracking force, messing with the anti-skate... I'm out of ideas.

Any suggestions?

These are about to go back.....


did you put a gram weight on it, something we always had to do before the m44-7



Yeah I installed the additional weight it comes with... I'ma try breaking them in some more to see how it goes.
Joee 11:36 PM - 22 April, 2010
try leaving it sitting on a record for a few nights, not playing, that always works for the shure

so how about sound quality, notice any change?
El_MaUri 12:27 AM - 23 April, 2010
I haven't noticed a significant difference in sound. But I haven't hooked it up to my sound system yet. I've been using my Klipsch home/computer speakers because I live in an apartment/condo.
DJ Doug Collins 1:31 AM - 24 April, 2010
Hey Sean, thanks for the post. I noticed the tracking get better as the night went on the other night. May be a breaking in issue as much as anything. I had the tone arm weight set at it's heaviest. Are you saying you guys tested the Concorde's with the tone arm turned around and it didn't burn up the vinyl something awful? I'm not too pressed about killing some control vinyl, I'm just curious. What height would you recommend setting the tone arm at and what about anti-skating? Thanks.
DJ Doug Collins 1:36 AM - 24 April, 2010
Quote:
Hey Sean, thanks for the post. I noticed the tracking get better as the night went on the other night. May be a breaking in issue as much as anything. I had the tone arm weight set at it's heaviest. Are you saying you guys tested the Concorde's with the tone arm turned around and it didn't burn up the vinyl something awful? I'm not too pressed about killing some control vinyl, I'm just curious. What height would you recommend setting the tone arm at and what about anti-skating? Thanks.

I meant the weight, not the tone arm turned around, obviously :-)
DJ Doug Collins 6:14 PM - 25 April, 2010
2nd full night at a club using the Concordes, and I think I can safely say they are now broken in, and they track every bit as well if not better then the Shures. I didn't even have to turn the weight around like Sean was talking about . I did throw a couple pieces of regular wax on the turntables to see what it sounded like, and the records sounded pretty damn good I have to say. Nice full range of sound, nothing too heavy or too soft. I'm pleased with my purchase now.
Serato
Sean.C 7:53 PM - 25 April, 2010
Kia Ora DJ Doug Collins

thanks for your replies...

personally I am not one for recommending that users simply put the counterweight on backwards and wind it all the way on as something will give at some point. BUT we know that a lot of people set their tables up that way so we tested the S-120 in that config...you should find that 3-4 grams is sufficient in most cases....

anyhows, I am glad you are liking them!

Cheers

S
Joee 8:49 PM - 25 April, 2010
ok maybe i can RUN out and buy them now, im thinking the om ones
El_MaUri 4:08 AM - 27 April, 2010
Anyone having luck with the OM's???

Still dissappointed....
Serato, Forum Moderator
Michael R 4:11 AM - 27 April, 2010
Hey El_MaUri,

Are you still having the same issues that you mentioned earlier:

Quote:
They keep skipping when back cueing, scratching and attempting to juggle on real vinyl.


Or do you have other concerns?
El_MaUri 4:15 AM - 27 April, 2010
yeah... same issues... i've had them sitting and playing on vinyl all weekend, trying to break them in... it improved slightly, but not significantly
El_MaUri 10:08 AM - 27 April, 2010
OK... so after messing with them for a while (re-adjusting height, weight, angle), it looks like the extra weight that comes with the S-120 OM's, which weighs approx. 2.2 grams, isn't sufficient.

With the tone arm weight flipped around and set to its maximum load and the cartridge angled at approx. 10 degrees, the S-120 OM still skipped significantly when performing heavy and normal scratching. So I tried adding more weight. I placed a dime on top of the headshell, which added approx. 2.2 grams, and the tracking improved greatly. BUT still not as good as the M44-7.

I tried both cartridges on the same turntable (also, the M44-7 required less weight/tracking force) and the M44-7 still performed better under heavy scratching and normal scratching. In order to minimize error, I kept switching the cartridges and performing the same scratches with each. With the additional weight (a dime) the S120 OM's almost kept up with the M44-7's, but still skipped more (the M44-7's stuck to the vinyl really well).

But as I kept adding more weight to S-120 OM's, they eventually ended up eating up my purple vinyls and scratch seal =\ ... =| ... =( (my angry to sad reaction)

While the extra weight on the S-120 OM's did improve the tracking, it sure ate up more vinyl...

Also, both cartridges were mounted on the same Technics M5G headshell.

Hopefully this makes sense...

Am I missing something?

Did anyone conduct a similar experiment?
DJJOHNNYM_vSL3 12:35 PM - 27 April, 2010
Quote:
Anyone having luck with the OM's???

Still dissappointed....


Sigh, can you post a picture fo how you have it mounted on the cartridge?

Both, top and side views if possible.

Also, are you using 1 set if vinyl?

The reason why I ask is because my BLACK vinyl is heavier than my clear vinyl, and I can't get any decent cuts off of that, so I use the clear religiously.
djjoefresh 2:21 PM - 27 April, 2010
It's kinda weird to me that some people are really having skipping problems with the S120's, because I've tested them on Technics 1200's MK2 with S-shaped tonearms with both black Serato vinyl and white Tittsworth (heavier) vinyl, and I haven't had any real tracking or skipping problems. I didn't even have to flip the tonearm weight or add any additional weight, they just worked for me. Even when scratching pretty darn hard, they stayed on track. Wish I could reveal some secret that would help you guys that are having problems with the 120's, but for me they really are working just as well if not better than my 44-7's.

Any tips from someone at Ortofon-Serato?
Joee 2:34 PM - 27 April, 2010
Quote:
It's kinda weird to me that some people are really having skipping problems with the S120's, because I've tested them on Technics 1200's MK2 with S-shaped tonearms with both black Serato vinyl and white Tittsworth (heavier) vinyl, and I haven't had any real tracking or skipping problems. I didn't even have to flip the tonearm weight or add any additional weight, they just worked for me. Even when scratching pretty darn hard, they stayed on track. Wish I could reveal some secret that would help you guys that are having problems with the 120's, but for me they really are working just as well if not better than my 44-7's.

Any tips from someone at Ortofon-Serato?


do you have the concord or the om, the issue seems to be with the om
concord>www.pssl.com
om>www.pssl.com
djjoefresh 2:37 PM - 27 April, 2010
Quote:
do you have the concord or the om, the issue seems to be with the om
concord>www.pssl.com
om>www.pssl.com


I have the concord.
Dj-M.Bezzle 2:43 PM - 27 April, 2010
could it be possible some of you are putting too much weight causing the skipping? By the time i had stopped reading that last post he had put the extra weight a dime a cinderblock and his PC desktop on it and it was still skipping
Henry GQ 6:02 PM - 27 April, 2010
mine work fine, i do think there is a break in period tho.
Joee 6:07 PM - 27 April, 2010
Quote:
mine work fine, i do think there is a break in period tho.

Quote:
Quote:
do you have the concord or the om, the issue seems to be with the om
concord>www.pssl.com
om>www.pssl.com
El_MaUri 9:44 PM - 27 April, 2010
Quote:


Sigh, can you post a picture fo how you have it mounted on the cartridge?

Both, top and side views if possible.

Also, are you using 1 set if vinyl?

The reason why I ask is because my BLACK vinyl is heavier than my clear vinyl, and I can't get any decent cuts off of that, so I use the clear religiously.



[URL=www.zshare.net]IMG_0288.jpg - 0.99MB[/URL]

[URL=www.zshare.net]IMG_0289.jpg - 1.00MB[/URL]

[URL=www.zshare.net]IMG_0290.jpg - 0.94MB[/URL]

[URL=www.zshare.net]IMG_0291.jpg - 1.12MB[/URL]

[URL=www.zshare.net]IMG_0292.jpg - 0.88MB[/URL]

And I did try it on multiple sets of vinyl... I used 2 diff. sets of black CV's (older pair and newer pair), Purple CV's, Scratch Roulette record, Super Duper Duck Break Records, and Super Seal.



Quote:
could it be possible some of you are putting too much weight causing the skipping? By the time i had stopped reading that last post he had put the extra weight a dime a cinderblock and his PC desktop on it and it was still skipping


Yeah I started with 1.5 grams of tracking force all the way up to the PC Desktop...


Quote:
mine work fine, i do think there is a break in period tho.


Yeah I broke them in over a 3-4 day period--had them riding/sitting on records since last week.
El_MaUri 9:54 PM - 27 April, 2010
Forget the zshare photos, it takes way to long to load.

Here's a direct URL to photobucket, they'll be the first 5 pics.

s124.photobucket.com
DJS/R 10:03 PM - 27 April, 2010
Why do the Concordes cost twice as much?
Joee 10:04 PM - 27 April, 2010
can't help you with s 120 as i don't have it, but i will say this when i first used the shure m44 7 more than 10 years ago i HATED it, i jumped like crazy than i learned how to set them up, & all was good

so maybe your have the same thing , shame man i wanted to get the om's but now don't know, the concords seem to be ok
El_MaUri 1:18 AM - 28 April, 2010
Yeah... but there's no way i'ma spend 200 on each... not now anyways.
Joee 1:37 AM - 28 April, 2010
good luck man let me know if you get them working right , than maybe i'll go get them
DJS/R 1:48 AM - 28 April, 2010
Quote:
Why do the Concordes cost twice as much?

?
Serato, Forum Moderator
Michael R 2:38 AM - 28 April, 2010
Hey El_MaUri,

It could be now that you have too much weight on the cartridges now, and the needle is sitting too deep in the groove. Try letting up on the weight again when breaking them in.

I see that you have the cartridge angled (as you say at approx 10 degrees), how have you calculated the angle? Did you receive the SH-4 headshell with your S-120 OMs? This has printed graphics on it for easy allignment. Have you tried using this?
Serato
Sean.C 3:09 AM - 28 April, 2010
for mounting a headshell in a straight config on a S-shaped tonearm the ideal angle should be around 22-23 degrees. 10 degrees is not really enough.

The markings on the SH-4 headshell make achieving this much easier.

However you can also do this by lining up the stylus (stick it on the record about halfway through) and adjust it so it is in line with the pivot point of the tonearm.

Cheers

S
El_MaUri 4:02 AM - 28 April, 2010
I used a protractor to get an idea of the angle. But you guys were right, the angle I had it set to was too small. I tried lining it up with the pivot point and it worked muchhhhhh better...

I'ma def test them out some more... but for now, gotta write a paper yo!

Thanks Michael and Sean.
Serato, Forum Moderator
Michael R 4:34 AM - 28 April, 2010
No worries, glad to hear they're working better :)

Please let us know how it goes after more testing.
lumas13 11:30 AM - 28 April, 2010
Well after starting this message, I finally got my om's and I been had once again... Didn't have the trouble that El had, they work pretty much like any of the other orto's, great sounds, but crazy record wear.
Joee 12:47 PM - 28 April, 2010
Quote:
Well after starting this message, I finally got my om's and I been had once again... Didn't have the trouble that El had, they work pretty much like any of the other orto's, great sounds, but crazy record wear.

record wear, i guess it doesn't mater since it's CV.........makes sense make a needle that wears the CV faster so we buy more, they make more money, maybe?
Dj-M.Bezzle 1:26 PM - 28 April, 2010
Quote:
for mounting a headshell in a straight config on a S-shaped tonearm the ideal angle should be around 22-23 degrees. 10 degrees is not really enough.



Are you sure thats enough...someone get tony little in here to confirm his calculations...i thought it was at least 49 degrees
Serato
Sean.C 8:49 PM - 28 April, 2010
s
Quote:
Quote:
for mounting a headshell in a straight config on a S-shaped tonearm the ideal angle should be around 22-23 degrees. 10 degrees is not really enough.



Are you sure thats enough...someone get tony little in here to confirm his calculations...i thought it was at least 49 degrees


check this out...

www.ortofon-shop.de


cheers

s
Dj-M.Bezzle 8:50 PM - 28 April, 2010
Quote:
s
Quote:
Quote:
for mounting a headshell in a straight config on a S-shaped tonearm the ideal angle should be around 22-23 degrees. 10 degrees is not really enough.



Are you sure thats enough...someone get tony little in here to confirm his calculations...i thought it was at least 49 degrees


check this out...

www.ortofon-shop.de


cheers

s


thats pretty awsome!
DJ Prinvale` 10:22 PM - 28 April, 2010
Was thinking about picking these up soon...but after reading the reviews it looks like

no major difference in sound
slightly better tracking/sticking

These seemed to be marketed as the next best thing to sliced bread...
Serato
Sean.C 10:52 PM - 28 April, 2010
Quote:
Well after starting this message, I finally got my om's and I been had once again... Didn't have the trouble that El had, they work pretty much like any of the other orto's, great sounds, but crazy record wear.


One of the main causes of record wear are the little bits of debris that clog up the groove: as the stylus passes through (and over these) they act like sandpaper and damage the record. If you upscale this and think about how glaciers work then you will not be too far off the mark.

Also dropping a stylus onto a record causes little microscopic bits of vinyl to break off and these contribute to that pile of nasties...

Part of the S-120 design is that it sits deeper in the groove. Therefore it will potentially encounter and pull more debris/ gunk up then most other styli.

Best advice and best practice is...

keep your records clean and give them a wipe over with a brush every now and then during performance to remove all that gunk! Your vinyl will thank you for it.

And of course if you don't need to add all that weight (ie if u are not a scratch DJ etc) then there is no real need to load it up...

Cheers,

S
DJS/R 10:55 PM - 28 April, 2010
Hey sean,

can you answer my question as to why there is a price difference between the OM's and Concordes?

Thanks!
Serato
Sean.C 11:23 PM - 28 April, 2010
S
Quote:
Hey sean,

can you answer my question as to why there is a price difference between the OM's and Concordes?

Thanks!


that is not really my area of expertise so I would only be guessing.

However the S-120 stylus is the same price for both the CC and the OM.

Your question may be better aimed at Ortofon.

Cheers,

s
dj_soo 7:38 PM - 29 April, 2010
Quote:
Hey sean,

can you answer my question as to why there is a price difference between the OM's and Concordes?

Thanks!


you're basically paying for the cost of the cartridge and a headshell with the concords (even though they're combined as an allinone)
boabmatic 10:47 AM - 10 May, 2010
finally gave in and picked up a set of s-120 concordes....

Still a little jumpy at the moment but my qbert OM's were like that to start with too.
(I find ortofon needles take a lot longer to break in compared to the shures)

more importantly they look great as all my gear is silver/black....(1200's,ttm57,unibody MBP) :-)
DeezNotes 1:02 PM - 10 May, 2010
I don't have the S-120s, but I do have/had plenty of other Ortofons. Although I use OM style carts, I've never needed to adjust the stylus overhang or angle with these carts like I did with older Stanton carts or the 44-7. Secondly, I'm no needle doctor but from my experience I've found that the "too much weight = more skipping" issue was targeted more towards the 44-7. Not to say that if you put 10g on an Ortofon it'll perform better... just saying that if you were to put a total of 5g, it should perform well vs. the 44-7 possibly performing worse.

To El... I would try the standard config with any Ortofon before attempting any overhang + angling tricks - this wears out your vinyl faster with any needle. Plus, you may be emulating a straight arm, but an S-shaped tonearm will have a total length much longer than a "real" straight arm. It's been a while since I've taken geometry, but just by looking at it you can tell that it's just not right. Plus, if you have people using concorde style needles that are set exactly right by default reporting good performance and bad performance using an unorthodox method... it's worth giving the standard config a shot.

Information everyone can use - what I mean by "standard config" is using the overhang gauge El used in his pic to put the needle at 52mm and a 0 degree angle. Set the weight to 4g (which is on the heavier/safer side), level the height of your tonearm and lock it into place - if you don't the gimble mechanism will wobble. Also, make sure your tonearm screws within the gimble itself are secure enough where it doesn't wobble itself. These screws can't be too tight, but they also can't be too loose to the point where if you hold the arm and twist back and forth that you don't feel any movement back there. Make sure the hole in the vinyl isn't too big or else it will bounce up against the spindle and can cause more skipping.

Now I have a question for Sean or someone else who is a needle engineer. I've heard for years that to break in a needle overnight, you can let it play in a run-out groove. Wouldn't this wear down the needle a bit? I mean, needles have a life span and playing a needle for 8-12 hours in the run-out groove can run this down. Why not just let the needle sit on the vinyl at the recommended weight? Either way, I believe the best break-in method is actual DJing because you get forward and back cueing (which is something you can't get with just playing it in the run-out groove). Most of the skipping issues come from back-cueing and I always figured that the needle has to break in it's bearings by "getting used to" back-cueing?
Serato
Sean.C 8:00 PM - 10 May, 2010
Quote:


Now I have a question for Sean or someone else who is a needle engineer. I've heard for years that to break in a needle overnight, you can let it play in a run-out groove. Wouldn't this wear down the needle a bit? I mean, needles have a life span and playing a needle for 8-12 hours in the run-out groove can run this down. Why not just let the needle sit on the vinyl at the recommended weight? Either way, I believe the best break-in method is actual DJing because you get forward and back cueing (which is something you can't get with just playing it in the run-out groove). Most of the skipping issues come from back-cueing and I always figured that the needle has to break in it's bearings by "getting used to" back-cueing?


Hi Deez

I must point out that I am not a Needle Engineer but I am the S-120 Project Manager the Serato end.

You are bang on the the money by saying that the best way to break a stylus in is to actually DJ with it in a non critical situation. In the case of the S-120 It may take a good 6-8 hours to really break in and soften up the suspension which is why the whole idea of letting the needle play in the run out groove overnight is not without some merit; just like a new engine in an old car, styli do need to be "run in".

Great post BTW :)

Cheers

S
DJ Doug Collins 12:11 AM - 11 May, 2010
I've got probably 20 hours of use on the Concordes now, and actually was able to lighten up the weight slightly with the same tracking ability as when I had the weight full on. I really am happy with my purchase now. Great tracking, MUCH LESS dust buildup and much fewer cleanings while playing than the Shures, and they sound very nice with regular vinyl. Maybe not worth 400 bucks, but at least 350 haha :-).
DJ Majestic 1:22 AM - 12 May, 2010
This question is for Sean. I might have missed this because the thread is so long, but is I have the Concord Pro-S can I just replace just the stylus with a Concord S-120 stylus?
Serato
Sean.C 1:28 AM - 12 May, 2010
Hi DJ Majestic

the short answer to that one is no :)

S-120 CC is available in a Twin Pack now though, I think the MSRP is $299.00...dunno what that would equate to street...

Cheers

S
DJ Majestic 1:33 AM - 12 May, 2010
I did a Google search I didn't see the twin pack for the 120's. I guess they'll hit NYC soon. I guess patience is a virtue.
Joee 1:50 AM - 12 May, 2010
Quote:
I did a Google search I didn't see the twin pack for the 120's. I guess they'll hit NYC soon. I guess patience is a virtue.

www.pssl.com
Joee 1:54 AM - 12 May, 2010
or>shop.ebay.com

one of the seller said they sell a pair om's for $160
DJ Majestic 3:57 AM - 12 May, 2010
Thanx a lot Joee. I'm gonna pick up a pair and see if I see a noticable difference.
El_MaUri 8:30 PM - 12 May, 2010
How are the concords performing when doing heavy scratching?
DJ Majestic 8:48 PM - 12 May, 2010
The only issue (not a problem) that I had with the Concorde Pro-S is that they are light in weight and will skip at the very edge of the CV. I tried to order just the 2g weight that comes with the S-120 but it's not a stand alone item. I solved it by using que points within Scratch Live in rel mode. That way I can set the needle deeper in the record and not at the very edge. I also thought of using the Technic's headshell that came with the 1210's (they come with a 4g weight in the box). Either wasy once I get the S-120's the weight will be included, that way I can use with either set that I have.
Dj Farhan 9:02 PM - 12 May, 2010
turntable lab has em for 175: www.turntablelab.com
The Return of Dj Sparky 10:44 PM - 12 May, 2010
Personally these needles make no sense when the majority of SSL users dont even use real vinyl, probably mentioned earlier but I couildnt be arsed reading all the previous posts
MarkOfOdessy 3:56 PM - 17 May, 2010
I own 4 shure m44-7s (new), 2 Ortofon Nightclub mk2s (New), 2 Ortofon Serato S-120s (New)....

idk why so many DJs are fans of the shure's over the Ortofon's? Crazy! Anyway, the S-120s are good and do feel a bit lighter on the record then the nightclubs, but for some reason they look and feel cheap in person.

Nightclub mk2s are the best needles I've ever had in inventory, but had to send one in after 5 mos (right ch wasn't sending a signal). Great service tho, had it back in 8 days (I=CA, Ortofon=NY)

I picked up the S-120s for 300 otd and the mk2s for 288 otd...

No matter what Ortofon is by far killing the m44-7s I just never wanted to drop the money on it but once I did I had to get other set as back up (S-120s) they were meant to be my mains, maybe it's just me. I'll try to review them side by side once I get the time.
lumas13 8:18 PM - 17 May, 2010
Killing the 44-7, if it was based on looks, Ortofon is the winner. I'd rather take an ugly cartridge thats easy on my vinyl rather than a sleek-looking cartridge that'll eat em up, just my two cents
MarkOfOdessy 9:30 PM - 17 May, 2010
S-120s looking/feeling cheap was not to the cartridge it self, but more to the stylus. I think all Ortofon cartridges are about the same. The lines on the stylus don't seamlessly match the lines on the cartridge. The stylus also came off the cartridge when I tried to remove the cover, I thought I was going to break it (felt cheap)

@ lumas 13, thanks for your input : )

I'm just voicing my opinion. I know a lot of DJs who think like you, but funny thing is it's all the cheap ones! Sry, just a fact.

I never wanted to buy Ortofon needles because of everyone talking so highly of the M44-7. Now that I know better I don't care what other DJs say about anything unless I know we're on the same page.
MarkOfOdessy 9:32 PM - 17 May, 2010
Btw I think the M44-7s look far nicer then the Ortofon.
Joee 9:55 PM - 17 May, 2010
Quote:
Btw I think the M44-7s look far nicer then the Ortofon.

we don't buy a cartridge cause it look's nice, we buy it based on performance.......i don't care how they look if it sound's good & it doesn't skip than it's the one for me

i bought a pair of om s 120's will report back once i have um for about a week
MarkOfOdessy 10:23 PM - 17 May, 2010
Quote:
Quote:
Btw I think the M44-7s look far nicer then the Ortofon.

we don't buy a cartridge cause it look's nice, we buy it based on performance.......i don't care how they look if it sound's good & it doesn't skip than it's the one for me

i bought a pair of om s 120's will report back once i have um for about a week


Read the last 4 post.... ; )
DJJOHNNYM_vSL3 11:19 PM - 17 May, 2010
Quote:
Quote:
Btw I think the M44-7s look far nicer then the Ortofon.

we don't buy a cartridge cause it look's nice, we buy it based on performance.......i don't care how they look if it sound's good & it doesn't skip than it's the one for me


Speak for yourself. That M44 is UGLY, and you can't see the needle clearly when you want to needledrop if using real vinyl.

The Pink Scratch OM is a sexy mo-fo.
Joee 12:47 AM - 18 May, 2010
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Btw I think the M44-7s look far nicer then the Ortofon.

we don't buy a cartridge cause it look's nice, we buy it based on performance.......i don't care how they look if it sound's good & it doesn't skip than it's the one for me


Speak for yourself. That M44 is UGLY, and you can't see the needle clearly when you want to needledrop if using real vinyl.

The Pink Scratch OM is a sexy mo-fo.

this one here does look sexy>cgi.ebay.com
DJJOHNNYM_vSL3 12:49 AM - 18 May, 2010
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Btw I think the M44-7s look far nicer then the Ortofon.

we don't buy a cartridge cause it look's nice, we buy it based on performance.......i don't care how they look if it sound's good & it doesn't skip than it's the one for me


Speak for yourself. That M44 is UGLY, and you can't see the needle clearly when you want to needledrop if using real vinyl.

The Pink Scratch OM is a sexy mo-fo.

this one here does look sexy>cgi.ebay.com


You sir know your sexy needles.
xplycyt 2:53 AM - 18 May, 2010
need a new set - can't decide between the q-berts or these S-120's...
DJJOHNNYM_vSL3 12:45 PM - 18 May, 2010
Quote:
need a new set - can't decide between the q-berts or these S-120's...


Pink OM Scratch.
Joee 1:32 PM - 18 May, 2010
Quote:
Quote:
need a new set - can't decide between the q-berts or these S-120's...


Pink OM Scratch.

you keep saying pink om, you don't want to give s 120 om a shoot?
Joee 1:33 PM - 18 May, 2010
shot
DJJOHNNYM_vSL3 2:17 PM - 18 May, 2010
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
need a new set - can't decide between the q-berts or these S-120's...


Pink OM Scratch.

you keep saying pink om, you don't want to give s 120 om a shoot?


Because they're way over priced in my Opinion.

Well, actually the Concorde S-120 is 200 bucks, but the OM version is 100, which is comparable to the Pink OM's.

The Q-Berts are like the Pinks but you pay for the Q-Bert name.

But the PInks come with an extra stylus, u feel me?
Sticky K 2:25 PM - 18 May, 2010
qbert OMs' also come with an extra stylus. Check out turntablelab.com
DJ Dub Cowboy 2:25 PM - 18 May, 2010
so do the S-120s

www.pssl.com
Joee 2:29 PM - 18 May, 2010
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
need a new set - can't decide between the q-berts or these S-120's...


Pink OM Scratch.

you keep saying pink om, you don't want to give s 120 om a shoot?


Because they're way over priced in my Opinion.

Well, actually the Concorde S-120 is 200 bucks, but the OM version is 100, which is comparable to the Pink OM's.

i got a pair for $160.....even shipping inculd.......

The Q-Berts are like the Pinks but you pay for the Q-Bert name.

But the PInks come with an extra stylus, u feel me?
Joee 2:32 PM - 18 May, 2010
cgi.ebay.com

this seller gave it to me for 160 2 carts 4 needles
nik39 2:43 PM - 18 May, 2010
It says 194, not 160...?
Joee 2:50 PM - 18 May, 2010
Quote:
It says 194, not 160...?


it also say's make an offer, i offered $150 they counter offered with $160
DJJOHNNYM_vSL3 3:05 PM - 18 May, 2010
Quote:
qbert OMs' also come with an extra stylus. Check out turntablelab.com


I wasn't referring to the Q-Berts not having an extra stylus, you're just paying for the name. I should have specificed that.

But I do stand corrected on the 120's.
DJJOHNNYM_vSL3 3:06 PM - 18 May, 2010
Quote:
cgi.ebay.com

this seller gave it to me for 160 2 carts 4 needles


I don't do ebay for needles, as I may need to return them for some reason. I always go by Guitar Center/Sam Ash prices.
Serato
Sean.C 10:29 PM - 19 May, 2010
check out the completely independent review on DJ Tech Tools:

www.djtechtools.com

S
Joee 11:08 PM - 19 May, 2010
look's to me like there still saying the shure m44 7 is best, i'll read it again but that's what it look's like at first glance, even the scope view was best on the m44 7
WestCoastAvenger 11:18 PM - 19 May, 2010
Quote:

Best advice and best practice is...

keep your records clean and give them a wipe over with a brush every now and then during performance to remove all that gunk! Your vinyl will thank you for it.


I use gruv glide for this!
WestCoastAvenger 11:20 PM - 19 May, 2010
i had a question regarding about buying the S-120 stylus tip and mounting it on a concorde nightclub cartridge.. will the s-120 still perform as advertise or buying the cartridge + stylus the way to go to get the most out of the technology?? anyone try this out yet??
Joee 11:23 PM - 19 May, 2010
Quote:
i had a question regarding about buying the S-120 stylus tip and mounting it on a concorde nightclub cartridge.. will the s-120 still perform as advertise or buying the cartridge + stylus the way to go to get the most out of the technology?? anyone try this out yet??


will not work is what was said
WestCoastAvenger 11:30 PM - 19 May, 2010
thanks for the answer noticed they answered my question already.. lol
WestCoastAvenger 11:31 PM - 19 May, 2010
but someone should try it anyway and let us know if it works...
MarkOfOdessy 1:44 AM - 20 May, 2010
Quote:
check out the completely independent review on DJ Tech Tools:

www.djtechtools.com

S



Damn, not NightClub Mk2...
nik39 11:34 AM - 20 May, 2010
Quote:
check out the completely independent review on DJ Tech Tools:

www.djtechtools.com

They are just comparing the size of the scopes (which should equal to the output level). But there is much more which is about a needle/cart. Tracking (of the groove) is still important.
Serato
Sean.C 8:37 PM - 20 May, 2010
Please add 1 x pinch of salt :)

Altho in saying that it's a good read, caught us all by surprise to be honest!

I would be interested to learn what one they tested first.

The S-120 sits deeper in the groove and therefore may be more likely to pick up debris (this is mentioned elsewhere in this thread), which will explain the slightly fuzzy scopes. Also note that all the tests have the scope screen shots taken at around the same point on the CV. I wonder if they cleaned the CV between tests (there is no mention of this)? They also only really tested for output level, the main point of S-120 is tracking under scratch conditions...and they didn't check out the sound of them on a regular cut (any S-120 owners got anything to say about the sound?)

Anyhow that sounds like me bitching, which I am not!

Cheers

S
Dj-M.Bezzle 8:40 PM - 20 May, 2010
Quote:

The S-120 sits deeper in the groove and therefore may be more likely to pick up debris


So its gonna catch alot of goop, more than the m44-7 does
WestCoastAvenger 8:42 PM - 20 May, 2010
just clean your vinyl with gruv glide it should reduce the dust and gunk that may have been caked up in the grooves... plus it get's rid of static!
Serato
Sean.C 8:43 PM - 20 May, 2010
Quote:


One of the main causes of record wear are the little bits of debris that clog up the groove: as the stylus passes through (and over these) they act like sandpaper and damage the record. If you upscale this and think about how glaciers work then you will not be too far off the mark.

Also dropping a stylus onto a record causes little microscopic bits of vinyl to break off and these contribute to that pile of nasties...

Part of the S-120 design is that it sits deeper in the groove. Therefore it will potentially encounter and pull more debris/ gunk up then most other styli.

Best advice and best practice is...

keep your records clean and give them a wipe over with a brush every now and then during performance to remove all that gunk! Your vinyl will thank you for it.

And of course if you don't need to add all that weight (ie if u are not a scratch DJ etc) then there is no real need to load it up...

Cheers,

S
Joee 8:51 PM - 20 May, 2010
Quote:
Quote:


One of the main causes of record wear are the little bits of debris that clog up the groove: as the stylus passes through (and over these) they act like sandpaper and damage the record. If you upscale this and think about how glaciers work then you will not be too far off the mark.

Also dropping a stylus onto a record causes little microscopic bits of vinyl to break off and these contribute to that pile of nasties...

Part of the S-120 design is that it sits deeper in the groove. Therefore it will potentially encounter and pull more debris/ gunk up then most other styli.

Best advice and best practice is...

keep your records clean and give them a wipe over with a brush every now and then during performance to remove all that gunk! Your vinyl will thank you for it.

And of course if you don't need to add all that weight (ie if u are not a scratch DJ etc) then there is no real need to load it up...

Cheers,

S


hey sean .

should i use the weight that came with my s 120 om?
Joee 5:58 PM - 22 May, 2010
ok.......i used my S 120 OM's last night for the first time

i balanced my tonearm,set the weight to 3 grams,used the headshell weight that came with the ortofon,set my tonearm height to 2

as far as skip resistance goes, i think it held the groove very well, i started doing some heavy handed cuts as soon as i put them on, they held good right out the box without any break in time even at the edge of the record

as far as tracking goes, it kept jumping between 96% to 100%, the shure always stayed at 100%

as far as sound quality goes, they sound good , i'm not 100% sure but i think the M44 7 have better bass

thats a quick review after i've had them for a while i'll post what i really think about them
j_dim 9:15 PM - 23 May, 2010
can someone explain to me why the s 120 has reduced vinyl wear compared to the 44-7's.

"Part of the S-120 design is that it sits deeper in the groove. Therefore it will potentially encounter and pull more debris/ gunk up then most other styli."

doesnt this wear it out even faster?

i guess only time will tell
Dj-M.Bezzle 1:19 PM - 24 May, 2010
Quote:
can someone explain to me why the s 120 has reduced vinyl wear compared to the 44-7's.


because its made from unicorn horn
ninos 5:43 PM - 24 May, 2010
Quote:
Quote:
can someone explain to me why the s 120 has reduced vinyl wear compared to the 44-7's.


because its made from unicorn horn



hahahaha omg bezzle
nik39 12:41 PM - 27 May, 2010
Quote:
can someone explain to me why the s 120 has reduced vinyl wear compared to the 44-7's.

+1
Serato
Sean.C 8:20 PM - 27 May, 2010
Quote:
Quote:
can someone explain to me why the s 120 has reduced vinyl wear compared to the 44-7's.

+1


That question is probably best aimed at Ortofon

Cheers

S
Dj.Mojo 4:23 PM - 28 May, 2010
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
can someone explain to me why the s 120 has reduced vinyl wear compared to the 44-7's.

+1


That question is probably best aimed at Ortofon´s marketing department.

Cheers

S

That´s what I thought.
nik39 4:24 PM - 28 May, 2010
Someone should ping them and forward them to this thread.
lumas13 4:54 PM - 28 May, 2010
I came to the conclusion that I been had once again...Thanks Ortofon.
j_dim 11:45 PM - 29 May, 2010
i've had the 120 OM's for about 3 weeks now, and have compared them side by side with the 44-7's. for some reason the 120' skip a lot more when i do chirps, so as far as skip resistance the 44-7 > 120's. I'm still skeptical when ortofon claims that it has minimal record wear. when you need 4 grams on the 120's compared to 3 grams for the 44-7's. The other thing is on my 44-7's it doesn't skip even if its on 3 grams of tracking force.

Unprecedented Specs........
asymmetrical suspension.......

is it normal to be this heated after you think you have been got by marketing.
sorry didn't mean to rant, but these are my honest thoughts
lumas13 11:58 PM - 29 May, 2010
I'm with you all the way. Welcome to the club. Nothing special about these, well one thing, they are louder, that's all. I would have been better off buying some whitelabel and 44-7 stylus.
j_dim 12:04 AM - 30 May, 2010
i think the only pros the 120 has over the 44-7's is that its less likely to be affected by dust buildup, since it sits in the groove deeper. (But i still keep on brushing the needles every 30 mins)
i am complaining because i had high expectations from the s120.
oh well i guess im just gonna keep using them.....
El_MaUri 12:51 AM - 30 May, 2010
Quote:
i've had the 120 OM's for about 3 weeks now, and have compared them side by side with the 44-7's. for some reason the 120' skip a lot more when i do chirps, so as far as skip resistance the 44-7 > 120's. I'm still skeptical when ortofon claims that it has minimal record wear. when you need 4 grams on the 120's compared to 3 grams for the 44-7's. The other thing is on my 44-7's it doesn't skip even if its on 3 grams of tracking force.

Unprecedented Specs........
asymmetrical suspension.......

is it normal to be this heated after you think you have been got by marketing.
sorry didn't mean to rant, but these are my honest thoughts

Quote:
i think the only pros the 120 has over the 44-7's is that its less likely to be affected by dust buildup, since it sits in the groove deeper. (But i still keep on brushing the needles every 30 mins)
i am complaining because i had high expectations from the s120.
oh well i guess im just gonna keep using them.....


Agree... but the longer you use them, the better they get. But still not as good as 44-7's. I can't hydroplane on the 120's, the needles are too rigid. But they are less flimsy than the 44-7's, that's def a plus. Overall, i'm starting to like them.
j_dim 1:32 AM - 30 May, 2010
i tend to chirp and it still skips on me, i'll give it a try and break it in some more.
im just worried if i go 4 grams on the weight that it eats up the control vinyl, cuz ortofons are notorious for this
DJ Awyse 3:49 AM - 31 May, 2010
Preliminary thoughts:

Just got a pair of concords, one of them was a bad cartridge... hopefully I will clear that issue up soon after labor day.

I compared the scope signal and output between the M44-7s and Orto DJ S. The scope signal is significantly bigger than both of them (better than the compared outputs of the Techtools Review imo, I may provide screen shots later this week), as is the output.

My one real complaint is that the tracking isn't as good as the DJ S, but I've only been letting them ride of records for about a day and a half. I have my settings at 3.5 grams, and height at 3 on Thudrumble Frost Plates. I will continue breaking them in and report back on Sunday after I've tested them more thoroughly and can give an accurate opinion.
j_dim 2:06 AM - 1 June, 2010
the S 120 aren't as bad now that I've broken them in. It just takes a while to figure the settings out and break them in.
DJ Doug Collins 2:22 AM - 1 June, 2010
They work flawlessly for me now. I'm very glad I bought them. Got some new Butter Rugs today, too, and now it's like there's not even a needle on the record. Good stuff.
j_dim 2:26 AM - 1 June, 2010
Quote:
They work flawlessly for me now. I'm very glad I bought them. Got some new Butter Rugs today, too, and now it's like there's not even a needle on the record. Good stuff.

do you have concorde or om? and what are your settings?
DJ Doug Collins 2:28 AM - 3 June, 2010
Concorde. Weight at about 4 grams, tone arm at a little more 1. I'm not a heavy scratcher by any means, but the tracking is just phenomenal.
DJ Awyse 4:11 AM - 3 June, 2010
Here is a output comparison I did of 120 vs 44-7.

www.djwyse.com
Serato, Forum Moderator
Michael R 4:21 AM - 3 June, 2010
Hi Awyse,

Which deck is the Ortofon S-120 and which is the 44-7?

I noticed that the senistivity threshold sliders for the two decks have different settings, which will give you different tracking. Try setting these the same for an accurate comparison :)
DJ Awyse 4:25 AM - 3 June, 2010
Yeah, realized that after I posted it.

www.djwyse.com

Left is 120, Right is 44-7. Same deck, same settings.
DJ Awyse 10:46 PM - 3 June, 2010
Well, I've been scratching on them 2-3 hours a day for a week now. The following is two 30 seconds clips of scratching done with a dirt styles battle record (it's not skipless, 100 MPH backsliding turkey cuts for those that want to know). I adjusted the settings on both tests for the most optimal each cartridge (see listed). I kept the scratching to a minimum of stabs/cuts/flares/chirps for the stress test. Test was conducted on thudrumble frosted plates/(flying carpets + butter rugs).

This first clip is with Ortofon DJs (Concorde). Since the performance of the DJs in my opinion is close to the M44-7s, I omitted them from the test but I can put in a comparison if requested.

Weight: 3 Grams
Height: 3.25

www.djwyse.com

Skips: 1 (0:22)


The following clip is with S120s (concordes)

Weight: 3.75
Height: 2

www.djwyse.com

Skips: 4 (0:06,0:16,0:22,0:25)

So the S120s have about close to 20 hours of wear on them, and they skip a lot. I've spent about 4 hours using nonskipless battle record to test the settings at various settings but it doesn't seem drastically affect the outcome of skipping. Just to reiterate this was a stress test and as I was not trying to piece together some melodic scratching.
lumas13 4:24 AM - 4 June, 2010
Seems like we all been had
j_dim 8:15 AM - 4 June, 2010
i think the problem with the ortofon's is that the needles are too hard, so your needle is going to skip regardless. but if your just playing control records and you want solid tracking signal then these needles will do the job.
skip wise its not even on the same level as the shure 44-7's this is because the 44-7's tend to be softer and more flexible.

so it has its pros and cons.
DJ Awyse 6:08 PM - 4 June, 2010
Quote:
i think the problem with the ortofon's is that the needles are too hard, so your needle is going to skip regardless. but if your just playing control records and you want solid tracking signal then these needles will do the job.
skip wise its not even on the same level as the shure 44-7's this is because the 44-7's tend to be softer and more flexible.

so it has its pros and cons.


That doesn't explain a Concorde needle that wasn't designed for scratching outperforming one that does.
Joee 6:49 PM - 4 June, 2010
i have the om guy's it holds real good for
lumas13 7:44 PM - 4 June, 2010
What's your settings on em?
DJ Awyse 8:54 PM - 4 June, 2010
Quote:
What's your settings on em?


If you read the original post you might see that I posted it.
DJ Bill Blast 9:16 PM - 4 June, 2010
Thanks for this info fellas. I'm very intrigued by the s120's. I've been a 447 user for over 10 years now. I came up as a Scratch Dj so skipping is a selling point for me. I think a better sound can be compramised rather than something skipping on me.

I also havent seen them advertised anywhere as a "pair" so in my head i'm adding up well over $350 with replacement stylus & cases.. for a pair.

I've been itching to try a new Needle/Cartridge set but my gut is telling me to just stick with the 447's. I wish I could demo them side by side before jumping the gun.
Dj-M.Bezzle 9:33 PM - 4 June, 2010
trust your gut
lumas13 9:36 PM - 4 June, 2010
don't do it.
j_dim 10:14 PM - 4 June, 2010
its a steep price to pay just to find out. but then again i dont think mine are broken in yet. it does take a while to break in.
Joee 10:42 PM - 4 June, 2010
Quote:
What's your settings on em?

Quote:
Preliminary thoughts:

Just got a pair of concords, one of them was a bad cartridge... hopefully I will clear that issue up soon after labor day.

I compared the scope signal and output between the M44-7s and Orto DJ S. The scope signal is significantly bigger than both of them (better than the compared outputs of the Techtools Review imo, I may provide screen shots later this week), as is the output.

My one real complaint is that the tracking isn't as good as the DJ S, but I've only been letting them ride of records for about a day and a half. I have my settings at 3.5 grams, and height at 3 on Thudrumble Frost Plates. I will continue breaking them in and report back on Sunday after I've tested them more thoroughly and can give an accurate opinion.
Joee 10:46 PM - 4 June, 2010
wrong on sorrt
Quote:
What's your settings on em?

Quote:
ok.......i used my S 120 OM's last night for the first time

i balanced my tonearm,set the weight to 3 grams,used the headshell weight that came with the ortofon,set my tonearm height to 2

as far as skip resistance goes, i think it held the groove very well, i started doing some heavy handed cuts as soon as i put them on, they held good right out the box without any break in time even at the edge of the record

as far as tracking goes, it kept jumping between 96% to 100%, the shure always stayed at 100%

as far as sound quality goes, they sound good , i'm not 100% sure but i think the M44 7 have better bass

thats a quick review after i've had them for a while i'll post what i really think about them
DJ Awyse 10:40 PM - 5 June, 2010
Spent the vast majority of today still trying to fine tune them, and still same result.

Great output, but not designed for scratching.
ninjagaijin 12:50 AM - 9 June, 2010
Hmm I don't scratch and was greatly considering the digitracks or S-120's for an upgrade.

Reading all this, i've decided to lose Ortofon altogether for the meantime, save over $100 and try some 447's for the first time.
Joee 1:38 AM - 9 June, 2010
Quote:
Hmm I don't scratch and was greatly considering the digitracks or S-120's for an upgrade.

Reading all this, i've decided to lose Ortofon altogether for the meantime, save over $100 and try some 447's for the first time.

you can't go wrong with the m44 7, i have the ortofon s 120 om, they work well for me
ninjagaijin 1:42 AM - 9 June, 2010
i have totally decided on a pair of m447h's :) I hate setting up carts myself!!

The S-120 look real nice - i've been using mismatched carts for a while now, one technics headshell with stanton 500 (cheap purchase to get by when got turnies) and a concorde pink .. my nightclub E got stolen by a 'friend' a couple of years back so I was originally going to get another concorde or a matching pair, but now the price difference seems to say M447's ftw.. plus better for scratching.. just perhaps quicker needle wear + breakage, but even still, replacements a LOT cheaper than ortofon INTIAL purchase..
Joee 5:25 PM - 9 June, 2010
i have totally decided on a pair of m447h's :) I hate setting up carts myself!!

you still have some setup to do, balance,weight,height...........if you don't set them up right, they will piss you off, skip like crazy, when not properly setup........read the little paper that comes with them.........don't use a headshell weight.
ninjagaijin 8:19 PM - 9 June, 2010
oh yah i have already set up turnies before, just had mismatched carts - so for me was just buy and pop on :) reset zero, voici!! :) 2 ez!

I mean thats turnie setup - CART setup is fiddling with the wires etc, screwing the right angle etc, hate it!
lumas13 6:43 AM - 10 June, 2010
Its simple with the 44-7's
El_MaUri 6:48 AM - 10 June, 2010
Dood! the needle came right off while cueing a track!!

s124.photobucket.com
lumas13 7:07 AM - 10 June, 2010
Wow, I'm not surprised one bit, too much hype from the beginning.
El_MaUri 8:06 AM - 10 June, 2010
I must have gotten the first bad batch... I'ma hit up ortofon and see if I could at least get a replacement...
ninjagaijin 8:09 AM - 10 June, 2010
oh sweet im glad i went 447s now hehe i knew needle replacement cost would win out in end :)
nik39 9:57 AM - 10 June, 2010
Quote:
Dood! the needle came right off while cueing a track!!

s124.photobucket.com

Ouch.
j_dim 2:26 PM - 10 June, 2010
damn what a rip off
El_MaUri 7:41 PM - 10 June, 2010
But I can't deny the customer service... they're replacing the whole kit for me... They responded super quick =)
spirez 9:50 AM - 14 June, 2010
I'm gonna pass on these and try the M447s, even if the needle fluff will annoy me.
lumas13 11:15 AM - 14 June, 2010
Smart Move
spirez 12:26 PM - 14 June, 2010
Is it worth getting them with the techs headshells for any other reason than ease of installation? I've got stanton headshells ATM that came with my STR8-150s. Are the techs headshells going to offer any improved performance with the timecode signal?
DJJOHNNYM_vSL3 12:51 PM - 14 June, 2010
Better Performance - No
Sexier Look - Yes
spirez 1:27 PM - 14 June, 2010
Well in that case i'll stick with that I have. I much prefer the sleeker look of the Stantons compared to the clunky old techs!
DJJOHNNYM_vSL3 3:56 PM - 14 June, 2010
Technics>Stanton.
DJJOHNNYM_vSL3 5:52 PM - 14 June, 2010
I see your work, but a PANK headshell just won't do it for me...

And unfortunately, Numark at one time made a sh*tty azz turntable with, a "light" on the actual headshell, and that Ortofon headshell design brings back bad memories of that turntable....
lumas13 12:19 PM - 24 June, 2010
Did anyone try the needle on another cartridge yet?
lumas13 1:08 PM - 24 June, 2010
Just curious, even though you can switch every dj model, skipping the GT model.
lumas13 1:41 PM - 24 June, 2010
I have em, just got rid of my old ortofon's that's why I asked
skratchworx 2:22 PM - 24 June, 2010
Quote:
can't be done, is what was said

I beg to differ. I just tried swapping S-120 needles with Qberts and they interchange just fine.
DJ Dub Cowboy 2:24 PM - 24 June, 2010
only problem is nobody made any money when you did that.
skratchworx 2:32 PM - 24 June, 2010
The difference is in the needle though. The S-120's dual cantilever makes it more stable so people will still need to buy the S-120 needles to benefit.
skratchworx 3:11 PM - 24 June, 2010
All I can say is that I've started writing my review, and as part of this usual thorough process, I did the test and showed that Qbert and S-120 needles can be interchanged.

With the proper needles, the Qberts have a tad more bottom end thump, but sound very similar indeed. When I swap them around, the Qbert cart with the S-120 needle sound much flatter, and the S-120 with the Qbert cart sounds very lively, but then you lose the benefits of the S-120 needle - both in terms of stability and aesthetics. It's false economy.

As I said before, I find the S-120s to be a little more stable than the Qberts, especially when doing heavyweight scratch techniques.
Henry GQ 6:50 PM - 24 June, 2010
i have the s-120s and love them.

i have used the mp44s and they are ok. the whitelables blew htem out the water.. and now s -120s are slightly better than the shure white lables
dj_soo 7:25 PM - 24 June, 2010
Quote:
Dood! the needle came right off while cueing a track!!

s124.photobucket.com


buddy of mine lost his tip at a show when it came off cleaning dust from it...
bill-e 7:42 PM - 24 June, 2010
concordes or oms? i really wanna justify buy these...especially after bending/breaking so many needles on the 447s...but it's not looking too good
Serato
Sean.C 9:08 PM - 28 June, 2010
Dj BuddyLove 9:52 AM - 7 July, 2010
nik39 10:35 AM - 7 July, 2010
I think the proper word for that video is: Inhuman. ;)
Dj BuddyLove 11:03 AM - 7 July, 2010
Quote:
I think the proper word for that video is: Inhuman. ;)

+1
or psych ward
Dj kommotion 3:43 PM - 22 July, 2010
I tried the mountable s-120s last night, and the waveforms for the needles werent circular at all. There was a point at the bottom of both circles that I couldnt get to disappear, so my needles were in the red most of the night. The cuts sounded better, but couldnt keep up with the signal for some reason. I use m5g's and flying carpets. It was almost like there wasnt enough weight on the needle. They appeared to be level with the tonearm adjusted all the way down.
djjoefresh 7:55 AM - 23 July, 2010
Used the concord S-120's again tonight, worked very well, close to perfect tracking and no jumping at all when using Serato control vinyl. I did have some intermittent weak control signal on one side, the signal dropped between 70%-80% but would then jump back to 100%, probably a worn/dirty spot on my record.
Serato
Sean.C 8:11 PM - 27 July, 2010
ninjagaijin 5:32 AM - 30 August, 2010
Very happy with my M447's purchase.. price and reliability for serato..

I accidentally dropped needle onto slipmat other week when playing a 10'' for first time in long time.. bent needle down a few mms, was terrifying, but bent back ok. Thing is, the replacement cost of the 447 needles are so much less than the s120, its a nobrainer for me. In a profession where we need to replace so much, cost is a real factor. I'd like to get a set of these 120's if the prices ever come down a bit.. the past few years it's just too high for me for ortofons, which is sad, cuz I started using them and loving them in the late 90s.
MarkOfOdessy 5:41 AM - 30 August, 2010
The S-120s aren't that good. I like my Nightclub mkIIs more. I'm trying to sell the S-120s now, but everyone is kinda hurting these days...
lumas13 3:46 PM - 30 August, 2010
Save your money, its not worth it
djchrischip 6:40 AM - 1 September, 2010
i want the black headshelled red ortofon cartridges
michaelp 7:47 PM - 7 October, 2010
I didn't like them at all. M447s are way better for scratching and juggling, IMO. As far as sound quality and stylus visibility goes, they may have a leg up on the Shures, though, if that's what you care about.
djchrischip 1:42 AM - 8 October, 2010
werd it is such a waste of money
blakaneez 1:30 PM - 23 February, 2011
I've had the OM S-120's for about 6 months now, and for the life of me I can't seem to get them to not skip when scratching. I've only had my 1200's for the same amount of time so I'm relatively new to the scene, but I've tried all combinations of weight (recommended 4 G's, turned the weight around) and tone arm height. nothing seems to work.

It hasn't been an issue so far as I've been mixing house, but trying to learn how to scratch on regular vinyl is near impossible. If anyone can provide some advice then it'll be much appreciated. Other wise I'll grab some M447's (I've scratched on my mate's setup with these and no skipping whatsoever, can't be my technique.)
Sureshot (PA) 7:31 PM - 23 February, 2011
Quote:
I've scratched on my mate's setup with these and no skipping whatsoever, can't be my technique.


Scratching was invented on needles alot less scratch-friendly than the S-120's. most of the scratches you're trying to learn were created and perfected on needles you wouldn't dream of using in this modern era. I can guarantee you without a shadow of a doubt that it is in fact, your technique (and the way you have them set up).
DJJOHNNYM_vSL3 12:38 AM - 24 February, 2011
Quote:
I can guarantee you without a shadow of a doubt that it is in fact, your technique (and the way you have them set up).


Man, I'm glad YOU told him, cuz I just don't have time to go into all that...

Dude, you said that on your MATE'S setup, you have no problems...

How about your MATE's setup is CORRECT, and your's isn't?

See, the way I see it

Shures = MAC of Needles - Set it up, no fuss, just works, but almost idiot proof.

Ortofons = PC of Needles - Once set up correctly, is the PROVEN CHOICE of professionals, but you have to know what you're doing.
Joee 12:56 AM - 24 February, 2011
Quote:
Quote:


I can guarantee you without a shadow of a doubt that it is in fact, your technique (and the way you have them set up).


Man, I'm glad YOU told him, cuz I just don't have time to go into all that...

Dude, you said that on your MATE'S setup, you have no problems...

How about your MATE's setup is CORRECT, and your's isn't?

See, the way I see it

Shures = MAC of Needles - Set it up, no fuss, just works, but almost idiot proof.

Ortofons = PC of Needles - Once set up correctly, is the PROVEN CHOICE of professionals, but you have to know what you're doing.

that om scratch IS THE BOMB!!!
DJJOHNNYM_vSL3 12:58 AM - 24 February, 2011
Quote:
that om scratch IS THE BOMB!!!


Souljaboy TELL'EM AGAIN!!!

They ain't hear you the 1st time....
Mr. Goodkat 12:58 AM - 24 February, 2011
Quote:
Quote:




See, the way I see it

Shures = MAC of Needles - Set it up, no fuss, just works, but almost idiot proof.

Ortofons = PC of Needles - Once set up correctly, is the PROVEN CHOICE of professionals, but you have to know what you're doing.


one of the dumbest dj statements ive ever heard.
Joee 1:00 AM - 24 February, 2011
Quote:
Quote:


that om scratch IS THE BOMB!!!


Souljaboy TELL'EM AGAIN!!!

They ain't hear you the 1st time....



IT'S THE BOMB BABY!!!!!!!!

just wondering how good the om q berts are
DJJOHNNYM_vSL3 1:02 AM - 24 February, 2011
Quote:

Quote:


See, the way I see it

Shures = MAC of Needles - Set it up, no fuss, just works, but almost idiot proof.

Ortofons = PC of Needles - Once set up correctly, is the PROVEN CHOICE of professionals, but you have to know what you're doing.


one of the dumbest dj statements ive ever heard.


You must own a MAC...

We understand...
michaelp 4:52 PM - 24 February, 2011
Theres no doubt that the S-120s skip more than the shures. Which doesn't mean they're unusable or bad needles. Personally I practice with them to help me get more light handed.
DeezNotes 5:18 PM - 24 February, 2011
Quote:
Quote:


that om scratch IS THE BOMB!!!


Souljaboy TELL'EM AGAIN!!!

They ain't hear you the 1st time....

They just don't listen.
michaelp 5:43 PM - 24 February, 2011
Quote:

Dude, you said that on your MATE'S setup, you have no problems...

How about your MATE's setup is CORRECT, and your's isn't?

See, the way I see it

Shures = MAC of Needles - Set it up, no fuss, just works, but almost idiot proof.

Ortofons = PC of Needles - Once set up correctly, is the PROVEN CHOICE of professionals, but you have to know what you're doing.


That's the opposite of how it's marketed though. One of Ortofon's main claims is that because it has such a high tracking range (1.5-10 grams, I believe), set up time is minimal.

Like I said before, I think its a decent needls, and I use it, but the marketing and hype is annoying and unrealistic.
Joee 5:48 PM - 24 February, 2011
i use them, i have no issues at all, but just made the switch to ortofon pink (scratch), i like them better
DeezNotes 8:22 PM - 24 February, 2011
Quote:
Quote:



Dude, you said that on your MATE'S setup, you have no problems...

How about your MATE's setup is CORRECT, and your's isn't?

See, the way I see it

Shures = MAC of Needles - Set it up, no fuss, just works, but almost idiot proof.

Ortofons = PC of Needles - Once set up correctly, is the PROVEN CHOICE of professionals, but you have to know what you're doing.


That's the opposite of how it's marketed though. One of Ortofon's main claims is that because it has such a high tracking range (1.5-10 grams, I believe), set up time is minimal.

Like I said before, I think its a decent needls, and I use it, but the marketing and hype is annoying and unrealistic.

Yeah, I can't really agree with Johnny's statement because I can't compare needles to computers.

What I do know is that Shure needles take a long time to break in, they need the right settings when you set them up and you better be on a sturdy table. If that and all the planets are aligned, they will NOT skip. Also, you better not have a warped record, because that flat bottom will screw you good.

Ortofons are more forgiving. Most versions may have slightly more record wear, but the break-in time isn't as bad and your settings don't have to be super correct to get them to work properly. There's no need to angle them and they kinda fall into the old school methodology where more weight = less skipping, which also relates to more record wear unfortunately. Once broken in, they perform very well at lower weights based on your technique.

Pink is still the best in my book. If these were endorsed by the Skratch Piklz or if they weren't pink in color, they would probably be more popular than they are. These are some really good needles.
nik39 9:39 PM - 24 February, 2011
pwned.
nik39 9:41 PM - 24 February, 2011
Quote:
There's no need to angle them

That's a big plus IMHO.
Joee 9:58 PM - 24 February, 2011
Quote:
Quote:


There's no need to angle them

That's a big plus IMHO.

i'm i little pissed, i was going to order another ortofon pink om kit with the extra stylus, i knew a store selling them out of nj for $64, they told me the one that brings the extra stylus is discontinued, sucks

them pinks or "PANKS" like johnny would say are the truth!
michaelp 10:48 PM - 24 February, 2011
Quote:
Ortofons are more forgiving. Most versions may have slightly more record wear, but the break-in time isn't as bad and your settings don't have to be super correct to get them to work properly. There's no need to angle them and they kinda fall into the old school methodology where more weight = less skipping, which also relates to more record wear unfortunately. Once broken in, they perform very well at lower weights based on your technique.


I don't know about other Ortofons since I haven't used any fo them extensively, but most people say the break in time on the S-120s is especially long, even longer than the M-447s. Personally I found that they were quite similar in terms of break in time.

Are you a heavy scratcher or more of a beat juggling guy? I've found that the S-120s are good for beat juggling and trick mixing. I like the stylus visibility, which makes needle dropping really easy if you're using absolute mode, and I like the stiffness of the stylus itself, which makes them really precise when you mark up records with stickers.

But when I get into heavier scratching the M-447s are better (unless you're using skipless records or Serato, in which case none of this really matters). And by heavier scratching I mean when you're doing shit like prisms or tip scratches and a lot of fast stabs or those transforms where you don't hear the pullback.

Honestly I think people make WAY too much out of these debates, because 90% of people use control vinyl on Relative mode and with cue points. To my mind the key differences in performance between needles are tracking, stylus visibility and record wear. None of those are relevant if you're using Relative mode and cue points. The debates are mostly just a style war and I really don't give a shit about that.
michaelp 10:54 PM - 24 February, 2011
The other thing is that if you're doing a ton of scratching, skipping WILL happen, no matter how good you are and no matter what needle you're using. I've seen plenty of videos of Q-bert's records skipping even when using skipless records. I saw D-styles' needle skip while doing a scratch routine too (he wasn't using a skipless record though).

Obviously the needles and technique are important, and everyone should strive to get as light handed as possible, but sometimes people have a tendency to have their needle skip and immediately think there must be something wrong with the needle or wrong with their technique. Sometimes shit just skips.
DeezNotes 11:26 PM - 24 February, 2011
Quote:
Are you a heavy scratcher or more of a beat juggling guy?

I don't know. I guess it depends on the time of day? Maybe a little of both?

I have 2 sets (4) M44-7s here. Every single time I use them I wind up taking them off in frustration because I know I have something that performs better (Pink OM). It doesn't matter if I'm scratching or juggling - to me, they're just better.

Also, you can make the relative mode argument a factor if you want, but there can still be issues in relative mode. I've heard DJs using SSL and the music completely cuts out or gets garbled to shit because they couldn't see all the dirt building up on their needle. I've also heard needle bounces in mixes or live performances where the floor or stage isn't solid. The 44-7 is a very "bouncy" needle. It will wobble and bounce based on the floor or surface. Relative mode helps, but there have been some cases where people get screwed one way or another because of those damn Shures.

I haven't used the 120s yet, so I can't comment on them. Ortofon hasn't truly convinced me of anything that came after the Scratch. I am a fan of that needle. I am not a fan of a needle where you have to Google, YouTube or ask on a forum how to break them in and get a barrage of responses that are just ridiculous.
michaelp 11:48 PM - 24 February, 2011
I could see that, the M-447s definitely build up dust much quicker than Ortofon's. It never was really a problem for me because I clean needles and records pretty constantly (even when I'm playing out), but I've definitely seen it become a problem for some people.

One thing I've been wondering about the S-120s: does the higher output allow you to set the threshold slider further to the left than would otherwise be the case? Or does it require you to set it further to the right? (I could imagine it either way and have never seen anyone test this...)
DJJOHNNYM_vSL3 11:55 PM - 24 February, 2011
Quote:
pwned.


Who?
nik39 12:16 AM - 25 February, 2011
Quote:
One thing I've been wondering about the S-120s: does the higher output allow you to set the threshold slider further to the left than would otherwise be the case? Or does it require you to set it further to the right? (I could imagine it either way and have never seen anyone test this...)

Just a theory: I think the limiting factor when playing in a club is the amount of feedback which gets back through the turntable, vinyl etc. to the needle. The "other noisefloor" is irrelevant cause the feedback is the dominating factor.

So a higher output level (amplification) will also mean that the "other noisefloor" will be raised - in the end this should mean that the achievable threshold does not differ (at least not in a very loud environment with feedback also being amplified by the higher output level).
DJJOHNNYM_vSL3 12:22 AM - 25 February, 2011
I can't even take the Shures' seriously...

It's like they don't even CARE if you have visibility of the needle or not...

That lacks a sense of precision in my book, idiot proof.
michaelp 12:27 AM - 25 February, 2011
I agree that the needle visibility is week, but I've seen people do really precise needle dropping with them. (Look up Rockin Rob on youtube, for example.)
DJJOHNNYM_vSL3 12:32 AM - 25 February, 2011
I'm sure that there are some who are precise with them, but I'm going by the majority, who probably don't give dizzam...but moreso use the turntable as a DVS controller...vs. a cat who'd be apt to switch up to normal vinyl every once in a while.

Also, as a DJ, it's like making love to the music/record...

You don't want a short stubby stylus head...

You want a long slender, impressive jawn...

Just sayin...
michaelp 12:43 AM - 25 February, 2011
HA. I had a girl who was weirded out by how phallic my Ortofons were. (She was used to seeing the Shures.)

But if you're using the turntable as a DVS controller, as you say, why does the stylus visibility matter? The only reason I care about it, personally, is because I always use absolute mode or or real vinyl.
Johbremat 12:48 AM - 25 February, 2011
Been using the OM S-120 for the last month or so. Spent about 3 days burning them in (sitting them on static wax; running them for a few hours every now and again) and running them at about 3.2g.

Beautiful. Perfect height (all the Shure 44-7 and 44G carts I've seen look like they're almost touching the vinyl), perfect lock and wicked sound (compared to the 680HP that were included with my ST-150).

Not a scratcher (though I try) and not once jumped. With the 680s I was finding on some of my older tunes that backcueing was resulting in bounce: not the case with these.
DJJOHNNYM_vSL3 12:51 AM - 25 February, 2011
Quote:
HA. I had a girl who was weirded out by how phallic my Ortofons were. (She was used to seeing the Shures.)


Let your stylus convey how you'd like to lay in her "groove".

This is deep on so many levels.
Johbremat 2:51 AM - 25 February, 2011
Quote:
This is deep on so many levels.


It might be deep, but does it touch the sides?
El_MaUri 7:57 PM - 26 February, 2011
How do the Pink Concords hold up?
Joee 8:22 PM - 26 February, 2011
Quote:
How do the Pink Concords hold up?

i'm wondering that same thing, but alot of people say stay away from concords?
Sureshot (PA) 8:31 PM - 26 February, 2011
Quote:

i'm wondering that same thing, but alot of people say stay away from concords?


Just as many people swear by them. Me included. Been using them for 10 years or so. Don't think i'l ever change. Now i'm using Qberts and they're great. Amazing sound, great tracking. I'm a happy camper.
Joee 8:38 PM - 26 February, 2011
Quote:
Quote:



i'm wondering that same thing, but alot of people say stay away from concords?


Just as many people swear by them. Me included. Been using them for 10 years or so. Don't think i'l ever change. Now i'm using Qberts and they're great. Amazing sound, great tracking. I'm a happy camper.

so next question, do you like the q berts better than the scratch, does it hold the grove better when doing heavy skrachin?
WarpNote 9:29 PM - 26 February, 2011
Quote:
Quote:



i'm wondering that same thing, but alot of people say stay away from concords?


Just as many people swear by them. Me included. Been using them for 10 years or so. Don't think i'l ever change. Now i'm using Qberts and they're great. Amazing sound, great tracking. I'm a happy camper.


Me too, Really like the Qbert concordes, I use Shure 447 for backup.
I never owned the pink scratch, but I do have the regular blacks and the regular blue concordes and I get the feeling Qbert tracks better for SSL and hold the groove a little better. They also have a hot signal compared to others...
Sureshot (PA) 1:44 AM - 27 February, 2011
Quote:

so next question, do you like the q berts better than the scratch, does it hold the grove better when doing heavy skrachin?


I've never used the Scratches either... the Qberts hold a groove well under heavy scratching. Technique will help as well. I picked the Qbert because they have a little bump in mid-range frequency that i like. When playing a track, its not noticeable with proper eqiing, but it helps your cuts pop thru in the mix. The Nightclubs are really nice too. Flatter sound than the Qberts and seem to hold just was well.
lumas13 3:37 AM - 27 February, 2011
But....they burn more, all of em
Sureshot (PA) 10:17 AM - 27 February, 2011
Quote:
But....they burn more, all of em


That was an issue back in the day. Not an issue if you play a high percentage of your time on Serato.

Even if i am playing vinyl.. i'm not doing battle routines or anything like that. I haven't it's been a long time since i played my Peter Piper 12" with the almost completely faded "GOOOOO!!" sample.

I'm also not convinced my Ortofons would burn my records any worse than M447s. Then again, i probably set my needles lighter than most.
DeezNotes 4:40 PM - 27 February, 2011
The 44-7 has extremely low record wear. I have no scientific proof, but I believe one reason is due to the physical characteristics of the needle. The other factor is that you are kinda forced to use them at a lower weight, which is also a big factor in wear.

The sound quality argument is null if you're using SSL. The output value is also kinda pointless, because any DJ needle made nowadays will produce enough output for SSL (even if it's as low as 5mV).

Concordes are good because they are perfectly aligned straight at 52mm which is the preferred alignment for 1200s - I can't really speak on other turntables. They are bad because of the contacts that connect to the tonearm. The newer ones aren't as bad, because they have rounded contacts, but they still don't line up with the tonarm contacts.

The other down-side, which a major one they haven't changed is the plastic lift. It's easier to break off compared to a headshell which is typically metal. I personally don't like it when the concorde lift doesn't have the rubber grip. The grip came with the blue DJ concordes and also the Digitracks - I'm not sure about the other needles following those (Q-Berts or 120s)?

The pink Scratch has pretty low record wear. I think the Q-Berts are comparable to the Scratch needles, but I haven't cared too much since I started using control vinyl. I can say that mostly all of my vinyls work well with the exception of my first pair of control vinyl. The A sides are beat to shit, but they still work. I use other vinyls very frequently and none of them are worn to the point where they're unusable and I use a variety of needles, but primarily the pink OMs.

All that being said, I think any needle you get that is "popular" nowadays is a good one. The main factors are going to be personal preference based on the physical characteristics (for people who use SSL primarily) and the sonic characteristics for people who still play vinyl. IMO all Ortofons sound better than the 44-7s, but that's subjective (especially if you like the added low-end on the 44-7s).

Try them out and see what you like. Try different Ortofon tips if you already have a cart but you want to try a different needle. Some carts may not give you the full output advertised, but you can get a good idea of the skip resistance without purchasing a whole new cart if you already have one.
lumas13 10:39 PM - 27 February, 2011
I agree with the sound portion
michaelp 9:50 PM - 4 March, 2011
I just ordered an Ortofon scratch concorde to see what all the hype's about.... if it tracks better than the S-120 I'd be a happy camper. I really like the stylus visibility of concordes but I haven't been able to find any that hold half as well as the 447s.
lumas13 1:32 AM - 8 March, 2011
The scratch is a good needle, sounds good only if you're not worried about cue burn, which is not a big deal using cv's
MarkOfOdessy 6:43 PM - 13 March, 2011
Nightclub MK2s are the best! Best I've ever owned... I have the S-120s, m447s and never use them... Other needles I've owned in the past q-brets, nightclubs (1), the 1st red/pink serato ones, the blue ortofons with the orange DJ on tip to name a few.
michaelp 6:45 PM - 13 March, 2011
what do you like best about the night clubs?
MarkOfOdessy 6:55 PM - 13 March, 2011
Everything... They don't skip, look dope, sound is crazy good. I got the S-120s and Nightclub MK2s around the same time, I dislike the S-120s so much I went out and got a 3rd Nightclub MK2 when I had to send one in for service. Yes, even tho I own like 3 plus pairs of other top of the line needles. If your in the market and can get a cool deal on a pair of Nighclubs MK2s you should really give them a try.

Or you can buy my S-120s = still like new, not even 10hrs on them. ; )
michaelp 6:57 PM - 13 March, 2011
I'm about to buy some used technics that come with a pair of nightclubs so I'm excited to give them a try.

You think they skip less than the s-120s?

I've been using the s-120s exclusively for the last month or so, and I'm coming more and more to the conclusion that they're just not gonna be the needle for me. I love the concorde style needle but still haven't found one that tracks well.

On the upside, practicing with a needle that doesn't hold as well as the Shures does make me much more light handed.
MarkOfOdessy 7:09 PM - 13 March, 2011
Dude for sure... Far, far batter then the S-120s, but they do have two different Nightclubs... The Black and Yellow, Black and Yellow (haha couldn't help it), and the New MK2s Black and Orange. Both are good, DJs Rave about the 1st gen (black and yellow).

I used to like the M44-7s, but one I got these Nightclubs it was all over. Idk man you should be happy with them.
MarkOfOdessy 7:10 PM - 13 March, 2011
once*
lumas13 8:23 PM - 13 March, 2011
The 120's are not that great, but the other models work better out the box
boabmatic 1:59 PM - 15 March, 2011
I'm happy with the performance of the S-120 concorde's now... but they took a long time to come good.... much longer than even my Qbert OM's or M447's.
lumas13 12:24 AM - 16 March, 2011
Guess my patience is not that good
michaelp 12:29 AM - 16 March, 2011
Everyone says that it's a matter of patience with the S-120s but I've been using them for over a month and they still perform the same as they did after a day or two of break in.

I just got a concorde Ortofon Scratch in the mail and straight out of the box it held the groove significantly better than the S-120s.

Haven't used it enough to see how it compares as far as sound quality, record wear, etc., are concerned, but in terms of tracking there's no doubt in my mind that it performs better than the S-120. At least given the way I scratch. (I've always wondered if perhaps different styles work best with different needles.)
Joee 12:42 AM - 16 March, 2011
Quote:
Everyone says that it's a matter of patience with the S-120s but I've been using them for over a month and they still perform the same as they did after a day or two of break in.

I just got a concorde Ortofon Scratch in the mail and straight out of the box it held the groove significantly better than the S-120s.

Haven't used it enough to see how it compares as far as sound quality, record wear, etc., are concerned, but in terms of tracking there's no doubt in my mind that it performs better than the S-120. At least given the way I scratch. (I've always wondered if perhaps different styles work best with different needles.)


i'v had om s 120's since they came out, i too made the switch to om scratch, i think they are better for scratching
lumas13 6:36 PM - 9 April, 2011
Quote:
Quote:


Everyone says that it's a matter of patience with the S-120s but I've been using them for over a month and they still perform the same as they did after a day or two of break in.

I just got a concorde Ortofon Scratch in the mail and straight out of the box it held the groove significantly better than the S-120s.

Haven't used it enough to see how it compares as far as sound quality, record wear, etc., are concerned, but in terms of tracking there's no doubt in my mind that it
performs better than the S-120. At least given the way I scratch. (I've always wondered if perhaps different styles work best with different needles.)



Could somebody tell me the secret to breaking em in?
I have too many needles laying around to only use the shure's

i'v had om s 120's since they came out, i too made the switch to om scratch, i think they are better for scratching
Lynn Sound Systems 2:13 AM - 13 January, 2012
S-120's = Wastedt monet to me, i got them , and dont like them at all, My digitracks are wayyyy better , so i ended up buying another set of digitracks, total of 4 now and the s-120's sit in the box, BTW one of the cartridges has no output on one channe after only 2 uses , its not the deck or the stylus switched both out to verify its the cartridge.
Dashiel 7:24 PM - 17 April, 2012
I got the S-120s as soon as they came out. To be honest, they've been a major hassle.

I'm a resident DJ at a number of nightclubs. First time using them playing out, halfway through my set the needle actually disconnects from the stylus and cartridge completely. Never happened on any other needle. Perhaps the tone-arm was on a bit too heavy at the time (who knows?), but no other DJ who's played at that venue has had that happen to them or their needles. I guess I expected something a bit more rugged.

I moaned on Twitter, and Serato contacted me out of the blue and offered a replacement!

SERATO'S CUSTOMER SUPPORT IS INCREDIBLE.

Was great for a while. Really impressed, hugged the groove beautifully, no skipping (I'm not a scratch DJ), great digital signal response...

However they accumulate dust like nobody's business. If I'm doing a power set mixing tracks very quickly to a packed crowd, I can't be fussing around with a brush to clean them after every 2 songs. OK, using one's finger is not ideal - but everybody does it, right?

However, one of my needles developed a terrible signal, then broke. Another needle broke. To be honest, I only really used them for special occasions.

I'd compare Serato S-120 to the Millenium Falcon. Great when engines are running smoothly, but awful when you're being chased by a Star Destroyer and the faulty ship won't go into Hyperdrive.

Spending £200+ on cartridges was kind of the last hurrah for me using digital vinyl. Just too unreliable in harsh busy club environments where every variable may not be perfect.

CDJ all the way, baby!
ninjagaijin 7:09 AM - 9 June, 2013
I was considering these again. But went for Shure M44G's. I don't trust Ortofon especially with the OM crack issues.. not to mention extra record wear.. I'd rather needles that wear out quicker than vinyl that wears out quicker thanks..
Mighty Dragon Sounds 6:01 PM - 9 June, 2013
I have a pair of the headshell mounted ones..... I never cared for the enclosed casing... Plus I like the angle my needles and the headshell mounted ones allow me to do that.

I never had any tracking issues... infact the extra amount of weight I am able to put on them makes it great for my gigs that involve tight spaces where the bass and people bouncing around would cause my regular M-447s to start to skip.
ninjagaijin 6:53 PM - 9 June, 2013
Oh yeah for CV's it's not such an issue, apart from replacements. Meant more for real vinyl :) for a cart, I like it to play more than test sine tones :)
FLIPSIDEclub 9:25 AM - 28 June, 2013
Quote:
I got the S-120s as soon as they came out. To be honest, they've been a major hassle.

I'm a resident DJ at a number of nightclubs. First time using them playing out, halfway through my set the needle actually disconnects from the stylus and cartridge completely. Never happened on any other needle. Perhaps the tone-arm was on a bit too heavy at the time (who knows?), but no other DJ who's played at that venue has had that happen to them or their needles. I guess I expected something a bit more rugged.

I moaned on Twitter, and Serato contacted me out of the blue and offered a replacement!

SERATO'S CUSTOMER SUPPORT IS INCREDIBLE.

Was great for a while. Really impressed, hugged the groove beautifully, no skipping (I'm not a scratch DJ), great digital signal response...

However they accumulate dust like nobody's business. If I'm doing a power set mixing tracks very quickly to a packed crowd, I can't be fussing around with a brush to clean them after every 2 songs. OK, using one's finger is not ideal - but everybody does it, right?

However, one of my needles developed a terrible signal, then broke. Another needle broke. To be honest, I only really used them for special occasions.

I'd compare Serato S-120 to the Millenium Falcon. Great when engines are running smoothly, but awful when you're being chased by a Star Destroyer and the faulty ship won't go into Hyperdrive.

Spending £200+ on cartridges was kind of the last hurrah for me using digital vinyl. Just too unreliable in harsh busy club environments where every variable may not be perfect.

CDJ all the way, baby!


Did your needles fall out ? Mine have after only 8 hours or so, I complained to Ortofon but they have just blocked me, refuse to help me as I made the mistake of not buying from the only approved store in my country ......

They look awesome, when they work they sound awesome, but 8 hours use until they die is horrendous especially at this price, I saved around €40 buying online, but I am now faced with €160 bill to replace the needles !!!!

Ortofon customer service is awful, here's what they said

"That is fully the customer’s responsibility to ensure the product purchased at the specific seller is backed-up by warranty.

You bought the product to a lower price, that is your responsibility and not Ortofon’s to handle with the consequences of the decision you made. "

Can Serato help me ? Or do i now have some very expensive ornaments and a seriously bad taste in my mouth over this.

I can't understand why Serato would get in bed with Ortofon, Shure has the edge on longevity, sound and PRICE ! Even Stanton have given me better use and service, two years on Groovemaster V3's with no problems and no needle changes ...
DJJOHNNYM_vSL3 8:00 PM - 30 June, 2013
Ortofons aren't for errybody...

BUT they DO have a point as to buying from an UNAUTHORIZED dealer.

How can you expect service from them when they're getting undercut from the door?

There was a REASON you went looking for the "Cheapest" online.

You take that chance, and roll the dice, or stick with a dealer that's tried and true.
DJJOHNNYM_vSL3 8:01 PM - 30 June, 2013
Quote:
Shure has the edge on longevity, sound and PRICE !


Cats just be makin' *ish up....
FLIPSIDEclub 5:53 AM - 1 July, 2013
@DJJOHNNOYANNONYIN_PC3
WHY do YOU feel the NEED to capitalise EVERY other word, a case of language malfunction, you were not taught that way in junior high were you? So refrain for using it now.

The reason, isn't that obvious ...called shopping around, looking for the best deal .... you must be American ..... you just pay the R.R.P. and be done with it eh? You lot caused the crisis, we have to suffer the consequences.

I was asking the poster if the needles fell out after a week, you are not the poster, therefore I don't need your input ..troll somewhere else please.
thankyou
(and I really don't need you to reply to this message, I imagine you won't be able to resist (from the previous rants I seen of yours), that shows more about you than anything you write ...)
DJJOHNNYM_vSL3 11:46 AM - 1 July, 2013
Quote:
@DJJOHNNOYANNONYIN_PC3
WHY do YOU feel the NEED to capitalise EVERY other word, a case of language malfunction, you were not taught that way in junior high were you? So refrain for using it now.

The reason, isn't that obvious ...called shopping around, looking for the best deal .... you must be American ..... you just pay the R.R.P. and be done with it eh? You lot caused the crisis, we have to suffer the consequences.

I was asking the poster if the needles fell out after a week, you are not the poster, therefore I don't need your input ..troll somewhere else please.
thankyou
(and I really don't need you to reply to this message, I imagine you won't be able to resist (from the previous rants I seen of yours), that shows more about you than anything you write ...)


LMAO@ YOU being mad at ME because YOU were too STUPID to buy from an AUTHORIZED dealer...

Your dumb AZZ looked for a DEAL, and hey you FOUND one...

And you were WINNING for 8 Days...

And by the way you spell CAPITALIZE with a "Z", MORON.

And it's GREAT to be an AMERICAN, where it must SUCK to be whatever and wherever YOU are, where Ortofon won't take the TIME or ENERGY to allocate more AUTHORIZED DEALERS in your area....

As for RANTING, you're the one CRYING across MULTIPLE Ortofon threads that the company did YOU with NO VASELINE....

LMAO @ needles falling OUT after a WEEK...

Ortofons aren't for ERRYBODY....

Cheers TRICK. :-D
DJJOHNNYM_vSL3 11:49 AM - 1 July, 2013
Quote:
There is a reason that manufacturers have 'authorized dealers'
DJ DisGrace 12:19 PM - 1 July, 2013
Quote:
you're the one CRYING across MULTIPLE Ortofon threads

seriously.... how many threads did you post the same crap?
DJJOHNNYM_vSL3 1:12 PM - 1 July, 2013
Quote:
Quote:
you're the one CRYING across MULTIPLE Ortofon threads

seriously.... how many threads did you post the same crap?


***In my Horseshack voice*** Ooooo! Ooooo! Me!!!! I have the answer Mr. Kotterrrrr!!!!

Well, there's HIS initial one...

serato.com

One that Goodkat made...

serato.com

And of course, the one we're in...

serato.com

Nobody gives a damn if you bought it "Off the truck" from the door...
ninjagaijin 10:20 AM - 8 January, 2016
Quote:
Quote:
you're the one CRYING across MULTIPLE Ortofon threads

seriously.... how many threads did you post the same crap?


No point trying to question why to someone trying to post on every thread/forum king haha :)
Biglerst5 12:56 AM - 12 February, 2016
Having an issue with this new pair of ortofon scratch needles, the hot pink ones. They skip on every single record and pull away like the anti skip is maxed put when it's at zero. I have 1210 M5G's. I have balanced the arm, have the counter weight at 3, tone are height at 3, and 0 anti skip. The only way I can get them to not skip or skate is to max out height of arm and counter weight all the way in. Fully aware this is horrible for the needles and records. Any suggestions, I'm open ears. Thank you, appreciate your time.
Joee 1:14 AM - 12 February, 2016
did you break the needles in?
Biglerst5 1:35 AM - 12 February, 2016
Quote:
did you break the needles in?



Used them 5 hours total. Its kinda weird how the actual needle will bend at a crazy angle, maybe I just never noticed before
Joee 1:44 AM - 12 February, 2016
Quote:
Quote:
did you break the needles in?



Used them 5 hours total. Its kinda weird how the actual needle will bend at a crazy angle, maybe I just never noticed before


proper break in procedure for me it to put the needle on a album and let play on the last grove for a day or so


I've never experienced anything you mentioned with ortofon pinks , in fact they are some of the best scratch needles you can get IMO they hold the grove like there glued to the record


are you using the little included weight?
Biglerst5 1:53 AM - 12 February, 2016
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
did you break the needles in?



Used them 5 hours total. Its kinda weird how the actual needle will bend at a crazy angle, maybe I just never noticed before


proper break in procedure for me it to put the needle on a album and let play on the last grove for a day or so


I've never experienced anything you mentioned with ortofon pinks , in fact they are some of the best scratch needles you can get IMO they hold the grove like there glued to the record


are you using the little included weight?



Which weight are you referring to? I use the counter weight and the silver nob on the side is hand tight.
Joee 1:59 AM - 12 February, 2016
Quote:
Which weight are you referring to? I use the counter weight and the silver nob on the side is hand tight.

it's a little silver gram weight that goes between the cartridge & headshell you can see it in the second pic here--> www.amazon.com
Biglerst5 2:02 AM - 12 February, 2016
Quote:
Quote:
Which weight are you referring to? I use the counter weight and the silver nob on the side is hand tight.

it's a little silver gram weight that goes between the cartridge & headshell you can see it in the second pic here--> www.amazon.com



Don't have those, I have these

www.amazon.com
Mr. Goodkat 5:10 PM - 12 February, 2016
do you know how to properly balance the tonearm and the correct tracking weight for the needle?
DJ_X_Trodinaire 1:49 AM - 13 February, 2016
My Pink dont skip :P not the concordes tho. I want a set of concordes too.
DJ Matty Stiles 4:49 PM - 16 February, 2016
Be honest guys do you buy the pinks simply cos they look cool or is due to some technical reason? Or just cos they're cheaper? Genuinely interested to know
Gio Alex 4:55 PM - 16 February, 2016
Quote:
do you know how to properly balance the tonearm and the correct tracking weight for the needle?


I asked him that too on a separate thread. Was wondering the same.
DJJOHNNYM_vSL3 9:31 PM - 16 February, 2016
Quote:
Be honest guys do you buy the pinks simply cos they look cool or is due to some technical reason? Or just cos they're cheaper? Genuinely interested to know


The OM "PANKS" are the best on the market...well at least for Vinyl enthusiasts...

I'm talking those who are into reading grooves and needle dropping.

YES, they do look cool, but they ain't for errybody.

Peep this vid - Watchwww.youtube.com
DJ_X_Trodinaire 10:48 PM - 16 February, 2016
Quote:


Peep this vid - Watchwww.youtube.com

Blocked
Gio Alex 11:07 PM - 16 February, 2016
Quote:
Quote:
Peep this vid - Watchwww.youtube.com

Blocked


Prolly one of Johnny's vaseline on the lens motorola razr routine vids. :P
DJJOHNNYM_vSL3 7:48 PM - 17 February, 2016
Quote:
Quote:
Peep this vid - Watchwww.youtube.com

Blocked


Blocked?

What country are YOU in?
DJJOHNNYM_vSL3 7:49 PM - 17 February, 2016
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Peep this vid - Watchwww.youtube.com

Blocked


Prolly one of Johnny's vaseline on the lens motorola razr routine vids. :P


Hey, you can make out the IMPORTANT parts of the vid....

:-P
Gio Alex 7:53 PM - 17 February, 2016
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Peep this vid - Watchwww.youtube.com

Blocked


Blocked?

What country are YOU in?


It's block for me too.
lumas13 8:41 PM - 17 February, 2016
Major warp
DJ_X_Trodinaire 11:02 PM - 17 February, 2016
Quote:

Blocked?
What country are YOU in?

I am in the same country as you in! i think? Murrica
DJ Marv the Maverick 12:24 PM - 18 February, 2016
Quote:
Quote:
Blocked?
What country are YOU in?

I am in the same country as you in! i think? Murrica


blocked in ireland too
desmorider 2:24 PM - 18 February, 2016
I'm in the USA, and can't hear shit on that video.
desmorider 2:25 PM - 18 February, 2016
or see it.....
Gio Alex 3:28 PM - 18 February, 2016
Maybe he made it private? JM is the only IT dude that doesn't understand how technology works.
Dj-M.Bezzle 4:47 PM - 18 February, 2016
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Peep this vid - Watchwww.youtube.com

Blocked


Prolly one of Johnny's vaseline on the lens motorola razr routine vids. :P

rotflmao
DJ Dub Cowboy 4:58 PM - 18 February, 2016
even though all of them seem the same but different colors, pinks are best for scratching
Q-berts take that up a notch with the highest sound output of the ortofon line.

there are subtle difference in the suspension and shape (elliptical or spherical) of the stylus. The different bodies have different levels of sound output.

I've only heard that the S-120 tips are not interchangeable.
DJ Dub Cowboy 5:03 PM - 18 February, 2016
I've been using S-120 OMs and Q-bert Concords for about 6 months instead of my usual Shure M447s.

The Q-berts beat the Shures in tracking and sound output. (This could be because I run my 447s at 23 degree angle.

The S-120s work great and sound great, just nothing exceptional over the other two choices.
DJJOHNNYM_vSL3 9:39 PM - 18 February, 2016
Y'all can't see -> Watchvimeo.com
DJJOHNNYM_vSL3 9:40 PM - 18 February, 2016
Quote:
Maybe he made it private? JM is the only IT dude that doesn't understand how technology works.


lol, yeah when you become a Manager, those little details leave you....
DJ_X_Trodinaire 11:11 PM - 18 February, 2016
Quote:
Y'all can't see -> Watchvimeo.com


yes and that vinyl tho.... big lump lol How that happen?
The Return of Dj Sparky 11:17 PM - 18 February, 2016
Quote:
Y'all can't see -> Watchvimeo.com


doesn't really prove much if you didn't show another needle for comparison
DJJOHNNYM_vSL3 11:20 PM - 18 February, 2016
Quote:
Quote:
Y'all can't see -> Watchvimeo.com


yes and that vinyl tho.... big lump lol How that happen?


Looks like the record was near a hot source, radiator or somebody put something crazy hot in it.

I acquired it in a stack of records, but am glad that it still plays.
DJJOHNNYM_vSL3 11:24 PM - 18 February, 2016
Quote:
Quote:
Y'all can't see -> Watchvimeo.com


doesn't really prove much if you didn't show another needle for comparison


I didn't intend to compare it to anything, I could have put up another needle to show that it may jump, but my point is that I'm showing you how good the tracking IS when using an OM Scratch that is properly calibrated.

You can draw your own conclusions from the vid....
The Return of Dj Sparky 11:26 PM - 18 February, 2016
well one could then also say a m44-7 properly calibrated could track the same
DJJOHNNYM_vSL3 11:30 PM - 18 February, 2016
Quote:
well one could then also say a m44-7 properly calibrated could track the same


Hey, maybe they do, but I was providing PROOF of how well they track because some specifically asked about them.
The Return of Dj Sparky 11:35 PM - 18 February, 2016
you claimed they were the best on the market but with out a comparison that's just your opinion
DJJOHNNYM_vSL3 11:40 PM - 18 February, 2016
Quote:
you claimed they were the best on the market but with out a comparison that's just your opinion


Like I said, they ain't for errybody....

But feel free to send me the Shure and I'll do the comparison just for you...
Joee 1:34 AM - 19 February, 2016
Quote:
Y'all can't see -> Watchvimeo.com

it's had to see past the graininess of the vid ,may i suggest a better camera, preferably something HD……it is 2016 you know




Quote:
you claimed they were the best on the market but with out a comparison that's just your opinion


pinks are pretty good, they wouldn't skip even when i tried to make the do so, but than again so did the m447 when i first used them some 20 years ago


i think it's all about proper break in & calibration
WarpNote 7:56 AM - 19 February, 2016
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Peep this vid - Watchwww.youtube.com

Blocked


Blocked?

What country are YOU in?

Blocked for me too Johnny, im in Norway..
WarpNote 7:58 AM - 19 February, 2016
Its not set private, its a rights management issue.
DJJOHNNYM_vSL3 7:35 PM - 19 February, 2016
Quote:
Quote:
Y'all can't see -> Watchvimeo.com

it's had to see past the graininess of the vid ,may i suggest a better camera, preferably something HD……it is 2016 you know

Quote:
you claimed they were the best on the market but with out a comparison that's just your opinion


pinks are pretty good, they wouldn't skip even when i tried to make the do so, but than again so did the m447 when i first used them some 20 years ago

i think it's all about proper break in & calibration


LMAO @ you of all people wanting to see a TURNTABLE VID when you haven't touched on for 3 Years, Mr. Fake Philly Pp Me Up....

Lmao.

You can't make this stuff up...lol.
DJJOHNNYM_vSL3 7:36 PM - 19 February, 2016
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Peep this vid - Watchwww.youtube.com

Blocked


Blocked?

What country are YOU in?

Blocked for me too Johnny, im in Norway..


Check the Vimeo jawn.
DJJOHNNYM_vSL3 7:37 PM - 19 February, 2016
Quote:
Its not set private, its a rights management issue.


Yeah, some people have NO RIGHT to see that jawn..lol.
Joee 7:46 PM - 19 February, 2016
Quote:
LMAO @ you of all people wanting to see a TURNTABLE VID when you haven't touched on for 3 Years, Mr. Fake Philly Pp Me Up....

Lmao.

You can't make this stuff up...lol.


look here "Meng", you just focus on getting something that has better video quality when showing them pinks excuse me "panks"

it 2016 "bruh" we have 4K video technology already ,that video looks like it was shot on a betamax recorder
The Return of Dj Sparky 10:49 PM - 19 February, 2016
mr loves to argue a point, how can you claim there are the best without a comparison that is a valid comment,

fact of the matter is you just hate being wrong and when you are so you just try and flip it,
Joee 11:05 PM - 19 February, 2016
DJJOHNNYM_vSL3 12:01 AM - 20 February, 2016
Quote:
Quote:
LMAO @ you of all people wanting to see a TURNTABLE VID when you haven't touched on for 3 Years, Mr. Fake Philly Pp Me Up....

Lmao.

You can't make this stuff up...lol.


look here "Meng", you just focus on getting something that has better video quality when showing them pinks excuse me "panks"

it 2016 "bruh" we have 4K video technology already ,that video looks like it was shot on a betamax recorder

LMAO!

Yo, Didn't a new season of SCANDAL start? You know it's about time for you SISTAGURLS to spill some tea...

Lmao!

PS - That was an iPhone video...

Smh.
DJJOHNNYM_vSL3 12:04 AM - 20 February, 2016
Quote:
mr loves to argue a point, how can you claim there are the best without a comparison that is a valid comment,

fact of the matter is you just hate being wrong and when you are so you just try and flip it,


Again SPARKY DEE, you didn't see where someone SPECIFICALLY asked an opinion of them?

Lol.

RIF.

Again, send me some Shures and this will be settled....

Lmao.
Joee 12:16 AM - 20 February, 2016
Quote:
PS - That was an iPhone video...

no wonder they gave you that jawn for free it has a defective camera

if i remember correctly it was an iPhone 4?

dude the 6S is out, way don't you star a new thread asking for reasons to upgrade
DJJOHNNYM_vSL3 12:37 AM - 20 February, 2016
Quote:
if i remember correctly


And there's your problem..

You DON'T 'member correctly....

lmao.

Go practice YO CUTS...

lol...
Joee 12:59 AM - 20 February, 2016
it was the iPhone 3? ok my bad
DJ_X_Trodinaire 1:50 AM - 20 February, 2016
i have a gopro and a DSLR for sale :)
Gio Alex 2:46 AM - 20 February, 2016
Quote:
Quote:
Maybe he made it private? JM is the only IT dude that doesn't understand how technology works.


lol, yeah when you become a Manager, those little details leave you....


I'm at IT manager as well, btw.
Gio Alex 2:46 AM - 20 February, 2016
Quote:
it was the iPhone 3? ok my bad


2S+
DJJOHNNYM_vSL3 12:47 PM - 20 February, 2016
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Maybe he made it private? JM is the only IT dude that doesn't understand how technology works.


lol, yeah when you become a Manager, those little details leave you....


I'm at IT manager as well, btw.


You man AN IT Manager as well?

lol..

See even your spelling slips when you're at the top...
DJJOHNNYM_vSL3 12:49 PM - 20 February, 2016
Quote:
it was the iPhone 3? ok my bad


I'm sure you have the latest and greatest device to stream....


















S-C-A-N-D-A-L now don't you ?

lmao!
Joee 4:40 PM - 20 February, 2016
yawn
Gio Alex 4:52 PM - 20 February, 2016
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Maybe he made it private? JM is the only IT dude that doesn't understand how technology works.


lol, yeah when you become a Manager, those little details leave you....


I'm at IT manager as well, btw.


You man AN IT Manager as well?

lol..

See even your spelling slips when you're at the top...


haha facts