DJing Discussion

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Ortofon vs. Shure

DJ MykChek 7:48 PM - 18 October, 2006
I've been using Ortofon Night Club's for a very long time. Nevery really had a problem with them except for the connection with the tone arm problem.
I was wondering if anyone out there had opinions on the Ortofon NC's vs. Shure M44-7.
I'm thinking about trying them out, but want to get some opinions before I do so.

Thanks for any input!!!
scotty B 11:09 PM - 18 October, 2006
I have always Loved My Sure's. Great sound output. I would definetly reccomend them over the Nightclubs
mister iLL 6:59 PM - 22 October, 2006
this belongs in gen. discussion....this isn't a tip or trick...

anyway i switched from orts to shures a few years ago and would highly recommend it.
dj_mookz 2:44 PM - 23 October, 2006
I own both sets of cartidges,

Use M44-7s for sure! (no pun intended!) The Ortofon nightclubs are great sounding for real vinyls, but u dont really need the ellypical stylus for the sound re-production since its all digital anyways, The M447s stick and have a high output, and get a great signal for scratch live! What more do u want?
SevenAsher 7:59 AM - 6 November, 2006
I got em both too & u can look @ the calibration and see that the signal comin from the shures is way louder than the orto's. Plus the minimal burn is crucial to the ssl wax. 447's allday.
DJ Red27 6:49 PM - 6 November, 2006
The Shure's are the shit! They take a bit to break in but after that... your ready to roll
DJ MykChek 8:28 PM - 6 November, 2006
Thanks for all the input guys... All responses from M44's. None from Ortofon. I guess I'll cop a pair of M44's.
Davey B 7:34 PM - 8 November, 2006
I own both the shure 447s and ortofon concordes. I find the connections and output to be stronger with the shure needles and prefer them for serato use and playing out at clubs. However, I use my ortofons for any recording I do from real vinyl as the sound quality seems a little better to me.
DEAD HAND 6:41 PM - 10 November, 2006
I use the Ortofon Q-bert scratch needles, why scratch needles? well they stick in the grooves of the record way better than any needle i have used. i can honestly say i have never had my needle jump out of the groove or skip due ti a bumped or vibrating table....even some of my recordeds that have scratches on them and skip with normal needles dont skip when i use the q-bert needles.
Dj Ace 3:05 AM - 12 November, 2006
Qberts all the way!
JayB1200 6:41 AM - 14 December, 2006
44's...
dj disturbed 7:06 AM - 14 December, 2006
QBERTS!! deff qberts. they give the best sound on normal vinyl and a great scope when i run SSL.
Charlie 2:29 PM - 15 December, 2006
I've been using the Ortofon Digitracks since WMC 9 months ago, but when it's time to switch, I'll go back to 44-7's. I prefer the 44-7's that I used previously to the Digitracks that I'm using now. And 44-7's cost much less and fit into the indestructable blue Shure needle box.
swavek 5:57 PM - 15 December, 2006
There are two different Shure needle boxes, by the way. The "original" one, with 4 holders aligned next to each other eh... perpendicular to the box's width, if you know what I mean, and then there's one with two holders on each end, horizontal to the box's width (and this one will easily fit any Ortofon type cartrigdes of any length).

And on the subject of Ortofon vs Sure - I use Sure Whitelabels, and they work great! (using FinalScratch I used to use Stanton 890's because of their louder output, but with Serato I went back to Whitelabels again).
jonlax 1:18 AM - 16 December, 2006
Switched from the M44-7s to the Ortofon Q-berts. Very happy with the Ortofon's, the sound is much better than the 44-7s and they are as skip resistant. I found they took a while to set up properly and I use one of the supplied weights but haven't had any skipping issues.
msoultan 2:23 AM - 16 December, 2006
I'd say the concorde's (any of them) are pretty much worthless, especially when teamed w/ Serato. The funky pin layout makes them drop channels which is extremely problematic when using Serato.

However, the Ortofon OM cartridges that mount on the Technics headshell are superb ;)
dj disturbed 8:02 AM - 16 December, 2006
the concords use the same pin layout as the OM's. non of the DJ's around here and any issue running concord style carts.
msoultan 8:53 AM - 16 December, 2006
Well, for starters, the Ortofon Concorde doesn't have the same pin layout as the Ortofon OM cartridge because the OM doesn't even connect to the tonearm directly; it uses the headshell as it's interface to the tonearm, and that's where the problem lies.

If you want to see what I'm talking about, look at the connector spacing on a Technics headshell and then look at the connector spacing on a Concorde needle. What you'll notice is that the connection pads on the Concorde are spaced much tighter on the Concorde than the Technics headshell. What happens is the contacts inside the tonearm (which are spaced farther apart) make poor contact with the Concorde's contacts and that's why you have channels drop out. Most people are left to licking the contacts which, in the long-run, makes the problem even worse. Combine that channel dropout with Serato and you're hating life.

If I remember correctly, the reason that the Concorde's are manufactured to that contact-spacing specification is because Ortofon is a company based out of England, and the England-manufactured 1200s have their tonearm contacts spaced closer together. I think that's what I heard when I contacted them about 5 years ago, but I could be totally wrong on why they actually manufactured them that way.

Anyways, their inconsistant behavior is why I eventually gave up on my Concordes and bought a pair of Ortofon OM cartridges and mounted them on my Technics headshells. Doesn't look nearly as sexy, but at least it's reliable.

There's also quite a bit of discussion about this here:

scratchlive.net
Mr. Goodkat 4:08 PM - 16 December, 2006
we had a ortofon concorde digitrack go out about 2 months after using the needles on thurs, fri, and Sat. I really dont know why, but we went back to the Shures. I was really down on the Shures, because the needle is so easily broken, and they can be a bit bass heavy, but I think I'll stay with the 44-7s. I think the concordes really eat the vinyl, because, as far as needle cleaning goes, it was much more frequent with the concordes.
babul 8:09 PM - 17 December, 2006
SHURE fo sho!
Niro 12:48 AM - 18 December, 2006
Definitly Shures for Serato, they last super long and is cheap to replace. You can usually get replacement stylus for about $25 each at GC. They're easier on you control records and you can use them with technics headshells (you can with ortofon OMs.) But I do use ortofon super 30's for encoding my records. With shures you can also just switch styluses with the 44G's and record. The G's are much flatter than the 44-7's and aren't too far off from some of the other expensive needles.

S
Dj Kimozave 11:02 AM - 18 December, 2006
Good day breddren. I recommend SHURE White Label. Good sound output which gives good signal to the SSL. Lowest record wear and also has high skip resistance. The best part is the adjustable stylus overhang which gives you the ability to adjust from different types of turntables (s-arm/straight arm) for best tracking and performance specially with the SSL.
dj_yankee_ny.com 6:01 PM - 23 December, 2006
Wow i was in the debate weather to get shure's or not but reading everyones input i guess ima get some shure's fo sho
RICHY RICH 11:13 PM - 24 December, 2006
i got the shures as my first set of needles...and i havnt had any problems, knock on wood...cross fingers, etc.
DJ BIS 7:07 PM - 1 January, 2007
Ortofon OM Electro's - They make me sound loud and crisp with great tracking. Tried the 44-7's, did not like their tracking.
gds 5:59 AM - 2 January, 2007
i had for a long time on serato the 44-7's and bought few month ago the Q-berts

results: good output for both,
better stereo for the ortofon
better ride for the M44


So i regret a little bit my M44
jaherrada 5:11 PM - 9 January, 2007
Shure Whitelabel. Enough said.
CMega 10:03 PM - 10 January, 2007
Shure M447's. If they skip you have something in your setup wrong or your not smooth enough. I used the 447's before I even knew of serato. Glad they are the RECOMMENDED needles. If you use SSL it doesn't matter how crisp they sound, it's how easy it is on your vinyl and does it transfer the signal from the control record to ssl strong enough. The track your playing and eq will determine the sound that comes out of the speaker. Remember, the track isn't on the record, it's in SSL. If you switch back and forth from Control record to real vinyl then use what you like best. But for just SSL, use the recommended 447's. There's a reason they recommend them.
echino 9:08 AM - 11 January, 2007
i bought one digi-track from ortofon (the one designed for signal playback) to check it out and well it's basically a little better sound quality i think anyway than my shure 447's and i love the tracking better on this ortofon than my shure cartridges. although i never skipped much with the shure i prefer this ortofon over the shure cartridge.
dj disturbed 7:17 PM - 11 January, 2007
i love my 447's but the Ortofon q-berts are where its at!!!! those things are sick..
young shiz 2:13 AM - 12 January, 2007
I really like the Shure M44G needles. They haven't given me any problems and they're dirt cheap so I can afford to have multiple backups laying around
msoultan 2:35 AM - 12 January, 2007
I've been using the dirt cheap stanton 505skIIs for a looooong while and they work great. Sound quality isn't as good as my ortofon's but I rarely play anything but the control records in REL mode so audio quality or record wear isn't a big issue. They are defintely workhorses and cheap enough that you can have 4 as backup. Heck, even when I do play real vinyl, the lack of piercing highs is nice as clubs usually crank the treble waaaaaay too much..
msoultan 2:36 AM - 12 January, 2007
and they don't skip on me either. That's the beauty of the whole SSL setup. The vinyl is no longer sacred... tear it up.. put a ton of weight on the headshell, who cares, we can just buy another record. I love it!
Niro 6:44 PM - 12 January, 2007
Quote:
and they don't skip on me either. That's the beauty of the whole SSL setup. The vinyl is no longer sacred... tear it up.. put a ton of weight on the headshell, who cares, we can just buy another record. I love it!


Yeah, but like any other record, when you find a good set of control records, you want to keep them. Vinyl warps and cones, so when I find a very flat pair of control records, I try and have them for as long as I can and 44-7's allow me to do that.

S
Euclid Abalos 12:00 PM - 14 January, 2007
Shure White Labels are the shit for me. They stick, Sound great and gives great signal to SSL. havent had a problem yet.I have heard some good things about the M44's too.
shiestO! 8:09 PM - 16 January, 2007
i dont know if ive already posted here... but i got the whitelabels AND the m447's. the output is def different. the m447's are very bass heavy, but good tracking for scratching and sturdy as a mo-fo. the whitelables sound great, good sound balance, not too bass heavy or high end piercing. they have good tracking, easier to skip than the m447's tho.
i usually rock my m447's cuz they work well with cueing and i dont have to change the carts if i want to scratch cuz i feel like the white labels are more delicate or easy to break than the big m447s. i know nothing of ortofon.
DJ Jinnai 7:28 AM - 17 January, 2007
I got Ortofon Q*Berts. I like them.
DJ Autograph 1:39 PM - 19 January, 2007
I'm about to switch to the M447's myself. Been a loyal Ortofon useer for the past 6+ years but concordes are horrible carts (switched to the OM's last year) and the OM's eat up your control vinyl so 44's it is....
DJ JPS 11:11 PM - 21 January, 2007
I have both pair's, I am a scratcher so Sound and Stablity mean alot. I have the Orotofon Pink Scratch as my primary needles and the Shure M44's as back ups. Personally from experience the Ortofon's hold better but burn the records faster. The Shure's have better output last longer and don't burn the record as much but don't hold as well as the ortofon's. But they are both the industry standard and that is why I carry both with me at ALL times!
DJ JPS 11:12 PM - 21 January, 2007
In a sturdy Shure Case :)
DJ2TRU 11:58 PM - 21 January, 2007
Q'Berts are by far the best soooooo far, I just switched from OM's and Scratches.....2TRU

www.myspace.com
DJ Jinnai 4:20 AM - 22 January, 2007
Quote:
Q'Berts are by far the best soooooo far, I just switched from OM's and Scratches.....2TRU

www.myspace.com


Oh mans, I was too lucky when I visited GC just for fun....they were selling their carts "buy one get one free" that day.

I had to buy them.
TyleRotsaert 4:44 AM - 22 January, 2007
i just got the digitracks from ortofon and there the bst needle ive used with scratch live yet

but on the other hand

when i use my b500s from stnaton on ma bedroom set up its pritty close to the digi tracks
dj osheen 12:50 AM - 23 January, 2007
44's
DJ MykChek 2:03 AM - 23 January, 2007
So.. I got a pair of 44's. I'd say that with comparison to output and sound, they both good quality. But then again, you're coming from a digital source.
I'd have to also say that my Ortofon NC's did sound cleaner on "regular" vinyl versus the 44's.
Overall, I think the 44's are my choice for SSL with my Ortofon NC's as my backup. Especially with the low record wear.

Also.. I don't have the audio drop-outs with the 44's due to using the headshell where I commonly have that problem with the Ortofon Cartridges.

Just my opinion.
RussOne 8:28 AM - 26 January, 2007
Curious! If you were to set up the Ortofon OM cartridge at the same angle you would with the M447's, would they stick any better?
boabmatic 2:14 PM - 26 January, 2007
probably,

the angled set-up is really to turn a S - shaped Tonearm (like the technics) into a straight tonearm (like the vestaxs etc) which are meant to have better anti-skip performance.
DJ MykChek 8:06 PM - 27 January, 2007
One thing I do want to add is with the 44's, the bass is a lot louder than the Ortofon NC's. I recorded a set with the 44's and compared them with the same set on the NC's. The bass was way heavier and, at times, was too loud.
masta monk 9:24 PM - 30 March, 2007
I just switched to the ortofon digitraxx. anyone else
RussOne 1:25 AM - 1 April, 2007
Did it when they first came out, then I switch to Shure. I think they're cool. Shure's M447 blew me away though with the way the needle stays in the groove no matter the rigorous handling.
Dustin Fields 3:27 PM - 12 April, 2007
I use DigiTracks when I use my TCV setup (ie Serato, etc).

I've been very satisfied with them as far as groove holding, but also because when I play a real vinyl, they have very respectable sound quality.

As far as 44-7's vs Ortofon NightClubs, they are definitely two different types of cartridges with 2 different goals in mind. 44-7s are for the sheer groove holding capability and have a tremendous range of tracking force (you can weight them light, you can weight them super heavy). NightClubs are a little bit more stringent as far as the weight range, but they are engineered primarily for sound quality. They track pretty well too. A fairer comparison would be the 44-7s vs the Ortofon Q.Bert.

Dustin Fields
Ortofon Inc
Mr. Goodkat 8:39 PM - 13 April, 2007
i actually like the ortofon sound for vinyl, it seems a little lighter and tighter, than the 44-7s, BUT it doesn't matter what they sound like when you use serato.
dj disturbed 4:32 PM - 14 April, 2007
WOW.. i will tell you something crazy i just exp. I got a new set of m5g's 2 weeks ago. Om my mk2's the Q-Berts were the shit.. sounded great and did not skip... much better sound then the m44's... but on the m5g's its the other way around..the q-berts sound muffled a little and the m44's sound great (but they both sound good)
DJ Upperkuts 5:35 PM - 16 April, 2007
M44-7
dj cookee 6:13 AM - 20 April, 2007
has any of y'all tried out the new ortofon concorde arkiv? i'm thinkin of getting me a pair. they said that ortofon came out with them especially for programs like ssl. i had nightclubs but for some reason they'd skip every now and then, even with new control vinyl. so yeah, since i don't have the nc's anymore i'm lookin for a new pair of top quality needles myself for ssl. peace yo!

dj cookee
Dustin Fields 7:35 AM - 20 April, 2007
The Arkiv is for ripping vinyl to the PC - since it has an elliptical stylus, it is best suited for playback and not for scratch. The idea is to just buy one of these, so that you can transfer your vinyl collection to PC/digital. They are not sold as a pair. For SSL playback, we make the DigiTrack.

Read the Arkiv PR: www.djzone.net

Frankly, I work for Ortofon and I'm even surprised at the difference in fidelity. This product was developed because there is always an inherent loss of detail when transferring vinyl to digital. Compensating for this with a cartridge that is exceptionally good with high end detail and stereo imaging is a great line of defense. You can also purchase a boatload of gear to improve the conversion process, but you would still want to start off with the best cart possible.

If anyone wants to geek out about gear, PM me!

Dustin Fields
Ortofon Inc
prizo 6:36 AM - 23 April, 2007
ive used both, i stick with ortofon night club (mountable kind not concord).
rhythmunderground 1:23 AM - 24 April, 2007
Quote:
ive used both, i stick with ortofon night club (mountable kind not concord).



ill second that. no probs tracking here.
DJ QTIME 2:52 AM - 24 April, 2007
Hey Bro i havent used the ortofons i use the m44g & they are really good but have heard ortofon is good so either way you go i think you will get good results sweet
DJ Shite 4:12 AM - 27 April, 2007
the issue with the drop out and concordes is in the tone arm pins, not the concordes. Turntables need SERVICING every now and then! The pins and pin springs in the tone arm get stuck in, especially at clubs were dirt n other shit gets in there.
djdbel 7:37 PM - 4 May, 2007
i have two m447s on my 1200 mk2's/ those things stick no matter what. buttt just in case, what i do to prevent anything from moving around while im workin, change modes after. like ill be working on left turntable with relative, once im done doin my cut switch back to interval. ppl keep touchin my tables at parties so i try to switch out just in case.
DJ Ern 10:15 PM - 4 May, 2007
I own both 447's and qberts, both needles are great and hold the grooves like you wouldn't believe, I did notice that my qberts will read burned up control records better than my shures. my main reason for using the qberts was that in a smoke and dusty club, I can see the dirt accumulating on the needle. with the shures, you can't until you hear the control signal dropping out...
Sam 12:56 AM - 8 July, 2007
**Moved to General Discussion
Vinylfriendly 1:14 AM - 2 February, 2010
i just bought a new set of shure m 44-7 And let me tell you guys these things rock... compared to my old ortofon Q-berts they sound way better and they track way better than the q-bets... the m44-7 have a more accurate sound reproduction... and they don't seem to put way too much weight on the record... my Q-berts sound muddy and produce more surface noise than the shure... they do great for vinyl recording... now that i bought them i'm gonna have to re-record all my vinyl all over again... now that i can get way better sound with the shure m44-7.. ps: i also had the ortofon night club... not that good at all..either...

one more thing.. i notice that with the shure M44-7 The serato time code fluctuates way less Than With Ortofon Q-bets... and i'm using the same time coded vinyl...
DJ_Phenom 4:22 AM - 2 February, 2010
Shure Whitelabels FTW
Dj Ace 4:50 AM - 2 February, 2010
ortofon arkiv works awesome for recording vinyl...something about the eliptical carts just sound better in my opinion
ninos 5:02 AM - 2 February, 2010
Quote:
Shure Whitelabels FTW


end thread.
the_black_one 6:47 AM - 2 February, 2010
shure
djmel 8:47 AM - 2 February, 2010
Quote:
QBERTS!! deff qberts. they give the best sound on normal vinyl and a great scope when i run SSL.



co sign +1
1200beers 8:50 AM - 2 February, 2010
qberts all day.
pete mos 11:57 PM - 25 February, 2010
i am using ortofon pro s but i want to try shure 447 .....can anyone please tell me if i can attach shure 447's at my stanton t65 ..pleasa help thanx alot
pete mos 11:58 PM - 25 February, 2010
t62 sorry
DJ Dub Cowboy 10:12 AM - 26 February, 2010
Yes
DJ FATBOX From L.A. 4:40 PM - 26 February, 2010
You guys know what! i Personally belive in quality not how much the needle cost or how it looks! Because i use the STANTON 680 hp's AND THE STANTON 500'S the og's and the new style looking one's. And they sitck to the serato records like glue and sound good! So if any real dj's know their shit (not saying that you guys are not real dj's!) But if you have been in the game for a very long time, then you guys should know this then.
David Househead 6:15 PM - 27 February, 2010
I started on 500's 20 years ago, then moved to the 680's a few years after.
In '99 I picked up Ortifons. They kill both those Stanton carts in every way.
Sound, tracking, record wear....
No sir, I would not ever want to go back to using them.
My back ups are 44-7's, and they out perform the 500 & 680 carts too.
Sticky K 7:38 PM - 27 February, 2010
Quote:
I started on 500's 20 years ago, then moved to the 680's a few years after.
In '99 I picked up Ortifons. They kill both those Stanton carts in every way.
Sound, tracking, record wear....
No sir, I would not ever want to go back to using them.
My back ups are 44-7's, and they out perform the 500 & 680 carts too.


+1
DJJOHNNYM_vSL3 1:10 AM - 28 February, 2010
Quote:
But if you have been in the game for a very long time, then you guys should know this then.


LOL, you can't be serious. I do believe the Stanton 500 (Gold) was my FIRST ever Magnetic cart. Eventually went to Pickerings, ADC/QLM-30's MKIII's, (you don't know about those), Concorde Ortofons, then finally the OM's.

680's were good for SOUND back in the day, but cartridges have made leaps and bounds since 680's and 890's.
djmel 4:06 AM - 11 March, 2010
daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaam i started on a used concored om night club( that aint really work to well cause it was used ) and a pair of pickerings( still to this day i dont care what no one say, i have yet to hear a needle sound as good as they did) they aint have no trakcing for shit and u would cue burn the fuck out your records,but i also had some 680s the old ones. an yes i stuck with them fuckaz 4 years till i went back to the ortofons concorde night clubs( no om )
jaherrada 8:43 PM - 7 April, 2010
Quote:
Shure Whitelabel. Enough said.
Kawowski 12:09 AM - 1 February, 2016
Dubplates & Mastering's CGB talks about a classic needle that truly fits the bill.
www.residentadvisor.net
c boon 3:10 PM - 30 July, 2018
Bad news everyone who doesn't know.
This is an old discussion (but maybe needs to be re-visited.)

Shure has discontinued production of all phono products as of 2018 :

www.shure.com

So what now? everyone on here is recommending shure, as would I. I've used whitelabels since they came out, but now unfortunately for us that's all over. . .

So what is the best option now that shure is not available is the real question.
Aptidda 3:14 PM - 30 July, 2018
check out that one website in china or japan, they make replacements for the m44-7. Forgot the name of the place but Mojaxx reviews them in one of his videos.
DJ Nin 4:19 PM - 30 July, 2018
Quote:
check out that one website in china or japan, they make replacements for the m44-7. Forgot the name of the place but Mojaxx reviews them in one of his videos.


Jico
17tr2 5:18 PM - 30 July, 2018
Quote:
Bad news everyone who doesn't know.
This is an old discussion (but maybe needs to be re-visited.)

Shure has discontinued production of all phono products as of 2018 :

www.shure.com

So what now? everyone on here is recommending shure, as would I. I've used whitelabels since they came out, but now unfortunately for us that's all over. . .

So what is the best option now that shure is not available is the real question.


The Shure is very good, but if you are willing to spend a little more, this is better.

www.needledoctor.com
deejayayup 6:00 PM - 30 July, 2018
Annoyingly, Ortofon have just announced they are discontinuing the Q-Berts. M447 and Q-Berts are the only carts I own.
Dave The One 10:18 PM - 6 August, 2018
The original Ortofon Concord Pro's have always worked for me. I'm not a scratch DJ; it's all about sound for me. I just picked up a pair of Orotofon Concord MK II digital and a pair of 44-7's. The MKII digitals definitley have a massive sound as do the shure after break-in period; I use much less eq on my Rane MP2015.

Honestly I could do with any of the three. I also have a Urei 1620 and all three sound fantastic. If I had to choose one it would have to be the digital only because of the all around sound/performance.

Ortofon MK II's a la Mojaxx of djcity. Great review. He's very honest in saying that if you have ortofons already, no need to run right out and upgrade as these are refinements to the already good catalog of cartridges/needles. However, if you are in the market for a first puchase; the MKII's are a no brainer. I couldn't agree more. His choice of the five new ones was the MKII Digital. Spot on, once again. I do have my eye on the clubs, because I do alot of sampling from vinyl but again I can get the sound I need from any of the three needles with some tweaking.

Go with your ears, and if you can afford it add different cartridges/needles to your arsenal. I didn't need the MKII's or the 44-7's, but I ended up liking both very much.

news.djcity.com
Dave The One 10:29 PM - 6 August, 2018
Here is a sound test in regards to the above review. All 5 Ortofon MKII"s tested, some with different cartridge/needle combinatiions and of course, a test with the 44-7 is included.

The mkII digital and 44-7 sound the best to me but each of us have different abilities in regards to how we hear things and also have different tastes.

Anyhow; A sound test/s are always helpful.

soundcloud.com
RR437T 12:16 AM - 7 August, 2018
"The MKII digitals definitley have a massive sound as do the shure after break-in period; I use much less eq on my Rane MP2015."

Isn't it amazing how much a phono cartridge breaks in? I've had new carts that sounded broken until about 25-30 hours on them. You can hear a change from record to record.