Software help archive

A read-only archive of old serato.com help threads.

Stuttering / Jumping but no sign of dropout

Product
Scratch Live
Version
1.9.2
Hardware
Rane SL3
Computer
PC
OS
Platform
-
Volatile 5:05 PM - 24 January, 2010
Product: scratchlive
Version: 1.9.2
Hardware: scratchlive-sl3
Computer: pc
OS Version: xp
---

Ok I'm getting intermittent jutters / stutters of sound. Best way to describe it is imagine I'm in relative mode and someone is jumping up and down next do my decks!

ok thats not the best way to describe it as it happens on internal too. so obviously its not a deck problem.

key thing here is im getting no signal of usb dropouts, but its a pretty similar audio experience to a dropout.

any ideas?
Rane, Support
Chad S. 8:04 PM - 25 January, 2010
What type of processor is in that machine.

What are the specs of the computer?
Volatile 8:14 PM - 25 January, 2010
Dell XPS M1330
Core 2 Duo @ 2.4GHz
4GB RAM
250GB HDD
Windows XP + SP2 + Updates
Rane, Support
Chad S. 9:25 PM - 25 January, 2010
Is you music stored internally or on an external HD? or both?

The specs look good on the computer.

Have you tried all of your USB ports?
Volatile 1:15 AM - 26 January, 2010
internal hd.. i had too many issues with externals. and too much kit to lug around.

yeah both usb ports work fine. no usb dropouts, just the audio problems.
Volatile 1:16 AM - 26 January, 2010
i even tried a complete format, now laptop has JUST serato on it. clean as hell!
Rane, Support
Chad S. 4:52 PM - 26 January, 2010
Have you analyzed all of the music in your library?

Do these songs play fine in other programs?

Does your computer have an AMD processor?
Volatile 7:43 PM - 26 January, 2010
Quote:
Have you analyzed all of the music in your library?

Yes

Quote:
Do these songs play fine in other programs?

Yes, absolutely. Perfect digital rips from original CDs - ripped in EAC safe, accurate mode.

Quote:
Does your computer have an AMD processor?

As stated above "Core 2 Duo" (Intel)
Rane, Support
Chad S. 8:05 PM - 26 January, 2010
I ask because you hear it in INT mode as well.

Do you hear the distortion / skipping in the headphones too or only the speakers?
Volatile 8:10 PM - 26 January, 2010
hmmm, i believe i hear it in the headphones. cant remember 100% tho. I'll report if / when it happens again. what are your early thoughts
Rane, Support
Chad S. 8:15 PM - 26 January, 2010
That is a "main point" in signal flow. If you don't hear it in the headphones we know it isn't being chopped by the software or hardware. If you hear it there too, then we can assume the signal leaving the box has the problem.
Volatile 3:19 AM - 29 January, 2010
played out tonight. happened a couple o times- not seriously enough to affect the dancefloor - but happened nonetheless and was heard thru the headphones.
Volatile 2:00 PM - 1 February, 2010
bump... any news here?
Rane, Support
Chad S. 6:50 PM - 1 February, 2010
Hearing it in the headphones but not the speakers could be a sign of trouble inside of your mixer.

The signal to the headphones was clipped but the crowds wasn't. So we can deduce that the signal gets into the mixer fine and in this case passed through the main routing for the speakers but the mixer failed sending it to the headphone cue.

Very odd
Volatile 7:02 PM - 1 February, 2010
no you misunderstand..

I meant that the interruptions in sounds werent that drastic to affect the dancefloor

but they were heard in speakers and in the headphones
Rane, Support
Chad S. 7:16 PM - 1 February, 2010
yes, that is different.

Here is the tricky thing, you said -
They play fine in another program

You don't see the USB drop out light

You have analyzed ALL files in the library

You have removed any bad / corrupt icons

You hear it in the headphones AND the speakers.

You have tried all USB ports..................

Knowing all that doesn't give us much room more to work with. Where do you have the "Audio Cache" set to? (set-up / display)

How much free space is on the internal HD and have you defragged it lately?
Volatile 1:05 PM - 3 February, 2010
bout 50gb free on the HDD.

not defragged within the last three months (but a complete format of the system and reinstall took place in late November I believe)

here is an example of the skipping - its only half a track but you should get the jist towards the end

www.sendspace.com

i believe I have the cache set to 15 or 30 secs.
Rane, Support
Chad S. 4:53 PM - 3 February, 2010
Thanks for the clip. Yes, thats easy to hear.

Sounds like a USB drop out.

What is the total size of your HD? You always want 10 - 15% free space.

I would recommend defragging the HD's.

Also increase your Audio Cache to 45.

If all that doesn't work, I suggest putting 100 songs on the internal and disconnect your external. Then play with the music directly off of your internal drive.
Volatile 5:06 PM - 3 February, 2010
Ok as stated above.

total size is 250GB so plenty of space. more than 30gb free on the primary partition too

im well above 15%

and im playing off internal disk as stated above too.

i shall try the audio caching and defrag tho.
Volatile 9:03 PM - 12 April, 2010
tried everything above... still getting these. getting serious too as people are commenting on my set "jumping" all night.

how can i proceed?
LJ_WOOLSEY 10:11 PM - 12 April, 2010
Sounds like an overheating problem of the laptop, iv serviced a few laptops now from serato djs with this problem. on taking the laptop apart screws had come loose (from vibration i guess) the graphics and cpu chip thermal paste had dried out and cracked. and the hole laptop was full of dust (honistly looked like someone had opend there hoover bag in there) and the vents near the fan were totaly blocked by a 1cm thick sheet of dust and grim.

i gave it a good service and a new harddrive just incase the harddrive was also an issue (with 3-4year old laptops its best to change after that time) installed os all upto date the run all the tweeks turned everything off wireless internet bluetooth ect. then loaded all there music on installed serato and analyzed all there music. delted all the corrpt files. then defragged the harddrive and did a disc cleanup.

they all run fine for about a year then i get them back again full of dust with overheating issues.

another issue is having the laptop on a stand that vibrates like mad. i.e right next to the dj box monitor.

im not saying this will fix your problem but defo something to consider.

hope you get it sorted cheers
Rane, Support
Chad S. 9:59 PM - 13 April, 2010
Are you still using a partitioned drive?
Volatile 6:26 PM - 18 April, 2010
its a partitioned drive yes. It had a new motherboard a while ago and when the technician replaced it there was barely any dust in there at all.

I'm familiar with overheating GPU's / CPU's from the PCs i've had in the past....

I will have a look at the GPU / CPU - clean it up, maybe clean and reapply thermal compound and see how I go.

I hope I get to the bottom of this, as last night the set could only be described as a disaster - one level up from annoying,

another other help here appreciated.
Rane, Support
Chad S. 6:20 PM - 20 April, 2010
Do you see a red USB light up top of the screen when this happens?

Did you boost your Audio Cache in set-up / display?

Did you defrag your HD?

Have you tried taking 100 songs and moving it to the main "c:" drive of the computer and playing from there? I'd be curious if you still get the same problem.
JoshM 8:44 PM - 20 April, 2010
Try turning off key lock and see if that help. I have the same sound issue and the current fix is to disable key lock. Hopefully serato are looking into this issue as well.
Volatile 12:13 AM - 21 April, 2010
Chad, all of the points and suggestions you make are covered above (and in fact in the title) "no sign of drop out"

audio cache yes

defrag yes

more than 25% free on both drives yes

c drive yes


Josh.... that's not really a fix as its an essential feature for me, but ill definitely try and see if it fixes it.
JoshM 1:53 AM - 21 April, 2010
Yes, I also require it as a feature (read: Crucial) but the only fix at the moment for me is to disable it. If it what fixes it, then you, me and a few other guys seem to be able to reproduce a problem which can hopefully be escalated and fixed!
Rane, Support
Chad S. 4:18 PM - 21 April, 2010
You would be amazed. I can ask the same thing a bunch of times and then the story changes. It sounds like the behaviors of a USB drop out and even sounded like one in the audio clip you provided, which is why I continue to ask.

Do you have another computer to test with? This could help support the thought it might be your computer as JoshM suggested.
browny 4:32 PM - 21 April, 2010
bet the problems keylock, seratos key lock is terrible at the moment, i had the same problem and i cant use it at the moment atall. turned it off and my problem had gone. and before anyone askes no i didnt have it turned on on my cdjs just on serato.
Rane, Support
Chad S. 5:35 PM - 21 April, 2010
^^ was the sound scratchy or did it actually drop out? If so, how far from 0 was the pitch slider?
Volatile 12:15 PM - 30 April, 2010
mine will do it on pitch 0.0..... and with keylock off...

i now have a cooler cpu and gpu by about 10 degress thanks to my mods, plus a further 5-8 degrees thanks to a cooling pad... still getting the pseudo drop outs

next step..... new hard drive.... getting to be quite expensive this.
Rane, Support
Chad S. 6:09 PM - 30 April, 2010
Did you ever find another computer to test with?
browny 10:27 PM - 30 April, 2010
my keylock causes this if im anything over 2.0% when playing alot of house, but as you say yours does it with no keylock hmmmm who knows :(
Volatile 1:39 PM - 6 May, 2010
ok a few peeps played with my box on the weekend, no jumping. so its the laptop (based on this limited testing, unless they were lucky)

I would say my "fake" dropouts may have improved (less frequent) with the cooling mods, and putting in on a cooling pad, but i still dont think thats the primary reason for getting these.

so anyway.. the new hard drive...

I have bought a new 7200rpm 500GB HDD for it. I installed windows 7 (the main problem i was getting on this support question was win xp as mentioned above) and am running 2.0 on it. CLEAN BRAND NEW DRIVE. Lots of "real" dropouts, as in the usb light actually appears... maybe thats another support question tho.
Rane, Support
Chad S. 11:59 PM - 6 May, 2010
In windows 7 make sure you disable the UAC
scratchlive.net

Where is the USb audio buffer set to?

Have you disabled all of the internet / wireless / network options on the new computer?
Volatile 1:49 AM - 7 May, 2010
ive turned EVERYTHING off, even anti virus.

usb buffer ive tried all up and down the whole scale - at present all the way to the right.
Rane, Support
Chad S. 4:44 PM - 7 May, 2010
Does it have an AMD or "i" series processor in it?
LJ_WOOLSEY 4:49 PM - 7 May, 2010
Quote:
its a partitioned drive yes. It had a new motherboard a while ago and when the technician replaced it there was barely any dust in there at all.

another other help here appreciated.


you say it had a new mother board maybe this has gone again?
as your box works fine on another laptop.
and from what iv read nearly everything has been tried and still no luck.

Chad s above its says intel duo core.

cheers
Polanka 5:45 PM - 7 May, 2010
Wow this is the exact problem I have been struggling with! I have an XPS 1330 with 8 gigs of memory and a solid state drive. This is a very serious problem and hopefully it gets addressed soon. My laptop is running great all around but I will make sure its cooled properly by reapplying the colling compound on both the gpu and cpu. I will report back to see if it makes a difference.
Volatile 1:38 AM - 8 May, 2010
Polanka.... JEEZZZZ 8 GIG and SOLID STATE? you love an upgrade man!

to be honest that's rdiciculous spec. I can't put my finger on whats going on, but im sure our machines can cope with the software / hardware.

My old machine was a pentium 4 / 512mb ram, didnt event break sweat for 2 years. need to get to the bottom of this.

Also, I used a copper shim instead of the crap thermal pad the thing came with... improved temp by 10% on high loads.
Polanka 2:41 PM - 10 May, 2010
Sorry 80 Gigs.
Polanka 2:42 PM - 10 May, 2010
And 8 Gigs of system memory.
Rane, Support
Chad S. 6:41 PM - 10 May, 2010
Just to recap again, (this is gettin long) everything worked fine when you used a different computer? Does that still hold true?
Volatile 4:09 PM - 25 May, 2010
im 95% that does hold tru yes. meaning its the laptop and not the box... no?
Rane, Support
Chad S. 4:34 PM - 25 May, 2010
Yes, meaning the culprit seems to be the computer instead of the actual hardware box.
Volatile 4:41 PM - 25 May, 2010
with a machine of such a high spec that baffles me.... where else can i go now?
Polanka 4:43 PM - 25 May, 2010
Ok I installed the thermal shim on my XPS 1330 and the laptop does run cooler. It ready didn't make a difference with the drop out problem. Well I decided to upgrade my CPU from a Core 2 duo 2.1 3megs cache 800FSB to a Core 2 Duo 2.5 6megs Cache 800 FSB. Now I don't have the problem any more. I now believe that the minimum specs for both Scratchlive and VSL should be raised. With all the new improvements its taking alot more CPU resources and once it tops out it cuts the audio. I still get audio drop outs but its rare and not very often.
Polanka 4:49 PM - 25 May, 2010
Volatile the XPS is a powerful laptop and can run previous versions of Scratchlive with no problems. Now that 2.0 is out, its not cutting it anymore. You should take a look at your system services and disable any services that you don't need. I use my laptop only for DJing and have disabled almost everything and it works fine now. I know that if they add anything else in upcoming scratchlive releases that this laptop wont be able to handle it.
Polanka 4:51 PM - 25 May, 2010
One more thing Volatile. I noticed that the best USB port to plug in your sl3 is the one on the left hand side. I have had issues with it plugged in to the right side.
Volatile 4:56 PM - 25 May, 2010
Polanka, I can't accept that. The laptop is more than powerful enough to run any version of serato without a problem... there must be a driver or a bit of hardware it doesn't like.

As I said in this post earlier, I had an old P4 VAIO, with 512k ram and the thing ran serato for two years without a dropout or a crash.

This machine is clean. Win XP + all updates + SP2, i dont use for anything but very light browsing and serato. i think it shoulod be able to handle this no problem at all. Upgrading to a faster C2D is a joke and an unecessary expense.

as far as the right hand / left hand usb port. seriously? I mean seriously?
Polanka 5:06 PM - 25 May, 2010
Volatile I am simply sharing what has worked for me. I know that some of these issues will never get resolved and so I have to find ways to make things work. Believe it or not the usb port you use can make a difference in performance. Like I said before the older versions of scratchlive didn't have a third deck, effects, and sampler and could run on slower machines with no issues. I bet if you install 1.9.0 all your drop out problems with go away. Bottom line is that the more they pack into this software the more CPU resources its going to use. I believe my CPU upgrade was no joke considering that it resolved my problem. What i did is basic troubleshooting to understand that the CPU was not cutting it. I would look a task manager and noticed that every time that CPU was at 99% usage the sound would cut out. So naturally the CPU upgrade was a must for me. Your problem might be slightly different than mine because I also run VSL.
Volatile 5:12 PM - 25 May, 2010
Dont get me wrong i really appreciate your words on this, especially as we have the same machine.

But I was getting the same grief with 1.8.3 let alone 1.9.0. My CPU doesnt even hit 50% EVER. That's why i thought the processor upgrade was overkill.

If I was running video SL and all that, I probable would go for a core i7 wit solid state etc.

I think it's an expensive upgrade to make with only a small increase in CPU power to warrant it.

Incidentally I tried Win 7 on a brand new 7200 HDD. WHAT A JOKE. not even worth the effort. 10 drop outs per song!
Polanka 5:25 PM - 25 May, 2010
Cool thing for me is that I can now run Scratchlive and VSL with all the effects and audio effects and no more drop outs. I actually got the CPU on Ebay for 200 dollars and then sold my 2.1 for 100 dollars. So it basically cost me 100 dollars to stop the drop outs. Well good luck with getting your issue sorted out.
Rane, Support
Chad S. 6:04 PM - 25 May, 2010
I'm glad that you both have been able to post some good research that can help future users.
1:22 AM, 2 Aug 2010
This help request has been closed due to inactivity.
Volatile 2:23 PM - 13 August, 2010
this is driving me insane. im now getting much longer stutters and they can last a good minute, massively affecting the set. last night i had to scramble to find a cd and restart the laptop. how do i get to the bottom of this?
Rane, Support
Chad S. 3:34 PM - 13 August, 2010
I imagine many things could have changed since this discussion started 9 months ago.
Are you still using the same computer?

What brand of processor is in there?

Where do you have your USB audio Buffer set to?

Does the waveform drop out on your screen?

Are you using an external or a different HD than what came stock in your computer?

Which Scratch Live hardware are you using?
6:00 AM, 28 Aug 2010
This help request has been closed due to inactivity.
Volatile 1:11 PM - 2 September, 2010
All exactly the same

Dell XPS M1330
Core 2 Duo @2.2GHz
4GB Ram
Windows XP + SP2 + UPdates

USB set to 5.
No waveform dropout
Same Harddrive (reverted back)
SL3
Rane, Support
Chad S. 4:12 PM - 3 September, 2010
Did you just update to 2.1?

What version of the software are you using?
Volatile 4:29 PM - 3 September, 2010
2.1 at present. but i run 1.8.3, 1.9.2 also and all three have the same problem.
Rane, Support
Chad S. 4:53 PM - 3 September, 2010
What does your CPU usage looking like now when this happens?
Volatile 5:03 PM - 3 September, 2010
25% tops. doesnt jump or anything. never did
Rane, Support
Chad S. 5:43 PM - 3 September, 2010
Quote:

so anyway.. the new hard drive...

I have bought a new 7200rpm 500GB HDD for it. I installed windows 7 (the main problem i was getting on this support question was win xp as mentioned above) and am running 2.0 on it. CLEAN BRAND NEW DRIVE. Lots of "real" dropouts, as in the usb light actually appears... maybe thats another support question tho.


Are you still using this HD?



Quote:

This machine is clean. Win XP + all updates + SP2, i dont use for anything but very light browsing and serato.

as far as the right hand / left hand usb port. seriously? I mean seriously?


Do you have internet / wireless / network connections on while playing?

Trying a different port is a good idea. Ports behave differently internally. Some are cobo ports, others are high speed depending on what is plugged in to other ports or the order it was plugged in on.
Volatile 6:03 PM - 3 September, 2010
I tried the new HD. I basically used it as a guinea pig. I tried Vista / 7 / XP without having to format my original drive. I got the same problems with it in all environments using all versions of Scratch Live - SL1 AND SL3 (PLUS all the "normal" drop outs i mention above) and it ran hotter so i ditched it.

Wireless is always off, as is anti virus.

Tried both ports countless times since that message. same goes.

The only thing I can think of myself is to try SP3 for XP (unsure how that will help as SP2 has always been most stable IMO), or we go back to the RATT file and see what we can do in there.
Rane, Support
Chad S. 6:19 PM - 3 September, 2010
Great ideas. I did notice that in the new minimum specs we recommend SP3, so that is worth doing.

RATT report will help us pin point the error, so that to can be of benefit.

If you load some music to the internal and only play that music, do the drop outs occur?
Volatile 9:10 PM - 3 September, 2010
sorry, i thought I'd uploaded a RATT file. wil find it and put it up.

confusion about the drive. it IS internal, im playing off the internal. both drives i mention are internal.
Rane, Support
Chad S. 10:19 PM - 3 September, 2010
Yikes. Yeah this thread is so long, it would almost be worth starting a new thread with your RATT report. In it though, please post your computer specs.
Volatile 10:21 PM - 3 September, 2010
will do mate. thanks.
kpcannon 4:38 AM - 9 September, 2010
I just started noticing this problem today. Never had it before. Looking for an answer. I only have the problem when key lock is on.

I am on a macbook pro running osx 10.6.4, 2.53 ghz intel core 2 duo processor, and 4gb ram.
browny 7:27 AM - 9 September, 2010
Yep key lock does this alot.
Dj Rinski 10:42 AM - 9 September, 2010
I am getting the studdering problem. It seems to be certain songs, and some are worse than others. I found 3 songs by Luca Antolloni are really bad which is strange, almost like serato doesnt like the sound of his tracksAll my tracks are genuin downloads, no dogey stuff.
At first I thought I was the sub vibrating the deck making the needle jump a little but it is not. If I listen to the same tracks through everything else it is fine. It is quite a subtle skipping sort of noise but it makes holding a long mix really hard. It seemed to start when I updated to serato 2, then I went back to the old one and waited for another update, now it has started again.

I just had a problem with serato crashing completely tonight too, the sound and everything stops but the line in the circle keeps spinning and the little white arrow keeps moving along the waveform but nothing else works and there is no sound. I had to reset my whole computer, twice. Hope it doesnt happen when playing live. I better start a new help topic for that one.
browny 11:28 AM - 9 September, 2010
It depends on the key and tempo of the track, on some tracks the key lock finds it hard to keep things in key and keep it sounding smooth. Some tracks Sound ok.
12:08 PM, 9 Sep 2010
kpcannon attached a file: 01 Action Satisfaction.mp3
Download· Permalink
kpcannon 12:12 PM - 9 September, 2010
I attached a file "01 Action Satisfaction.mp3. I started noticing the problem while slowing down the pitch of this track with key lock On. There are no problems with key lock off. I took this song into ableton and slowed it down even more and had no problems. Suggestions?
Rane, Support
Chad S. 3:15 PM - 9 September, 2010
Everyone please start a new thread.

This long thread has now become even longer with problems other than the original poster. We want to give everyones issue 100% attention. Thank you :)
kpcannon 3:40 PM - 9 September, 2010
ok i started one here serato.com
1:36 AM, 14 Sep 2010
Volatile attached a file: VXPS.cswa-accumulator-report.txt
Download· Permalink
Volatile 1:38 AM - 14 September, 2010
ok then back to the issue at hand. (im not sure how to hear the mp3 that kpcannon uploaded to see if its the same thing)

im attaching another RATT file. a definite "fake drop out" happened during this RATT grab.

incidentally, i tried playing off a usb key and couldnt make it happen, but i can go two hours without one at times so I'll need to test further.

I have also downloaded and installed SP3 for XP and will test soon (THE RATT FILE ABOVE WAS CREATED WHEN RUNNING SP2)