I got that call too. I'm not buying though. Let us know what you think.

Is this Moz the one time bad ass battle DJ ?

I expect it to be better than FS but I love my SL-1 unit. Nemonic, post your findings when you find out how good it does or doesn't work.

No, thats not him.

I expect to get the unit either tomorrow or Thursday (it's getting FedEx'd from Atlanta to Charlotte). Once I get it, I'll put it through it's paces and post on various aspects of it over the following week on my website. I'll be running it on a Dell XPS400 desktop and an XPS M140 laptop (pre Core Duo).

keep us posted nemOnic :) don't u guys do that podcast thing?

That's Phil's podcast, but I was a guest on it a few times. He talked about bringing it back soon. I do a podcast as well, but it's turned into more of a (mostly) weekly chart for electro house. Work for both of us has been pretty crazy lately, but the end of October marks the end of the busy season for me and the beginning of 3 months of relaxation. Phil OTOH has mouths to feed and stays pretty busy.

can u use this --> www.sweetwater.com with torq?

It has been on the Shelf at most Guitar Center since last Thursday. I picked it up on Sunday. I haven't had a chance to fully test it but I will give you my initial thoughts.

1. The interface feels cheap. This thing will not stand up to the rigors of weekly gigs unless you get a case for it. If you just throw it into your bag each week it will break. All the connections seem cheap also.

2. The unit does not come with a printed manual. This is a big negative in my book as I hate having to use pdf manuals and then waste time printing it out. The only thing it comes with is a getting started pamphlet, 2 control CDs and 2 control vinyl pieces.

3. The software installed easily enough but I find it extremely weird that the software install for the units drives took longer than the torq software.

4. The documentation is not laid out that well. They make it seem like the interface is a bigger deal then. The vinyl is compaible with Ms. Pinky vinyl and maybe Serato as you can select other control vinyl types. Havent' tested that yet.

5. The program interface is very cluttered. There is a lot of stuff going on in the program. I would recommend at least a 15inch display.

6. The program froze on me numerous times. First when I was using the directory to locate my music it froze. Then it froze a few more times when I selected tracks.

7. I started to play tracks from the internal mode and the program played them perfectly. Tested the functions like forward, reverse and the mouse locator and they all worked dead on.

8. Upon hooking up the vinyl things got a little dicey. As best as I could figure out you have to use the knobs on the interface to send signal to your mixer. This means that you have two stages of gain contral. This just seems like drama in my book as you can easily send a distorted signal to your mixer. I did some scratching and it is pretty dead on. If you are familiar the Ms. pinky software then you know what the program is capable of. Another problem I had is that when I switched tracks a loud buzz started and could not be stopped unless i stopped using the vinyl as the controller. I had to then reboot the program to get things to start normally. It happened again later on.

9. The effects are decent. You really need some sort of external controller to use them though. Trying to dial them in on the fly is a pain with a mouse. You could design your own presets at home though.

I haven't had a chance to test out the sampler function, using the program with VSTs, or rewiring with Ableton but my general thought on the piece is that it is not ready for major club use. If you want to be cutting edge then go for it but I highly recommend building some sore of case for the interface and being ready for new software glitches. If they continue to update it then it will definitely be a low cost alternative to Serato.

Rebelguy, it would be nice if you could post your computer's specs.

I installed the program on a desktop. The machine is custom built for audio and features:

Asus A8V motherboard
AMD X2 4400+
2 Gigs Kingston Ram
80 gig WD 7200 RPM SATA system drive
320 gig 7200 RPM SATA audio drive

It has been tested to run 100+ tracks with 60+ plugins. I know that it is definitely enough horsepower to handle this program so I am curious as to why the freezes.

I'm sure you can, since it's fully MIDI comaptible. I'm going to be using this...

www.feena-electronics.com

along with vinyl control so I can test both sides of the application. I also have several VST plugins and Ableton Live ready to go.

whoa, that thing looks mad crazy. can u post youtube vidz of this and torq in action (when u get a chance :)

I dont really have a video camera of any kind, but I might be able to use my webcam. Definately a possibility.

OK, been testing it for 2 hours straight and have some info for you all. Before I go any further, let me give you my system specs (I only installed it on my desktop - I'll get it on the laptop after this weekend).

Dell XPS400
Intel CoreDuo 2.8ghz
1GB RAM
XP MCE SP2
250GB SATA HD

THE BAD STUFF

The documentation does indeed suck. You get a stupid little quick start guide that's 4 pages long that mostly just covers the driver installation. NOT GOOD ENOUGH. So I figured that if there wasn't any hardcopy, they must have installed a PDF into the program goup with the application. NOPE. You have to browse the CD before you'll get to read any of the documentation. Yes, it tells you this in the little 4 page flyer, but would it be so hard to install a shortcut in the program group at the very least?

Also, NO CABLES! Come on guys. Hope you have some RCA cables lying around, cause it comes with 1 cable, and thats the USB cable. That's pretty weak. While we're on the "not included" kick, it doesn't come with a power adapter either. Not as big an issue since it's bus powered, but I think that if it's got an option for external power it should come with it's own adapter.

I also have a small gripe about the interface. this might just be because I don't fully know it yet, but it looks to me like if you have the app set for external mixer, you have no choice but to see the unnecessary crossfader and deck faders. I would really like to get rid of those and reclaim that on screen real estate. Maybe I just don't know how yet.

SYSTEM REQUIREMENTS

Here are the sys reqs as stated on the sticker on the box (they obviously were considering what to recommend well after the box art went to press).

Windows Minimum
XP SP2
Pentuim III 500mhz
256 MB RAM

Windows Recommended
XP SP2
Pentium III 933mhz
256 MB RAM

Mac Minimum
OSX 10.3.9
G3 500mhz
256 MB RAM

Mac Recommended
OSX 10.4.6
G4 1.25ghz
512 MB RAM

IN THE PACKAGE

The box contains 2 timecoded vinyl that are thick and feel substantial. Some of you scratch oriented DJs aren't going to like them, but there it is. There's also 2 timecode CDs, the documentation of suck, the USB cable, and the Conectiv interface. the interface is heavier and more substantial than I thought it would be, but not the tank of the FS2 Scratchamp (this isn't a bad thing). It's got TT ins and outs, power and USB ins, and on the front a 1/4" headphone and 1/4" mic input. The 2 large knobs on the top control the USB to source ratio. Remember the headphone jack? It's there because there's full monitoring controls on the top for source selection, level, and a split cue switch. The third small knob is a mic level control.

Hooking it up is pretty straightforward. There is an updated driver for it on their website, so I installed that instead of the one on the CD (following the instructions in the quickstart guide). It's a very similar installation to the Firewire 410's. One reboot later and I was in business. I set my buffer to 256 samples and installed the Torq software off the CD.

Having used TDJS for a while, the interface didn't strike me as cluttered as it might for other folks. It's more organized and logical than the TDJS3 interface, and MUCH easier to read. Going into preferences, I saw that my channel assignments weren't set by default. No biggie. I set mixer mode to external, selected my ins and outs, and checked out the other settings. In the vinyl tab, I selected external and made a note to learn about the info on this page (but not before I rip into it for a while). I also checked to make sure it found my VST directory (it did). FS2 and SSL users will note that there isn't a "scopes" view on the timecode page, just some data.

I then closed preferences and checked out the browser. I didn't bother adding files to the database just yet, so I picked my main music directory and let her rip.

HANDS ON TIME

I dropped the control vinyl on the turntables and dragged songs to each of the decks. each one sprung to life and started scrolling the waveform. The waveform view is split in half and is like a horizontal version of SSL's waveform view. I like it.
You have a small representation of the full waveform in the info block on each deck as well. The waveform view has an interesting feature I really like. If you are spinning the platter fast, the waveform for that deck "zooms out" so you can see more of the waveform. It does this smoothly, and zooms back in when the platter returns to a more normal speed. Very cool.

Looks like 5 hot cues and 2 "scratch points" per song. There is also BPM based looping ala TDJS in 1/2/4/ and 8 bar values. I noticed that repeatedly hitting a value gave me half of that value. You can also set loop ins and outs manually. Each deck also features independant key and pitch (sweet!), 3 built in effects at a time, and from what I can tell one VST effect (I only tried one and didn't explore this any further).

The effects section if what TDJS 3 effects SHOULD have been. For instance, when using the STROBE effect, the second knob scrolls through musically logical values instead of being an arbitrary numeric value. This means that when using a BPM based effect, it ALWAYS effects the song in a way that sounds pleasing to the ear. The effects are all useable, and can be saved into effect presets if you find a combination of effects that you like the sound of. These presets can be recalled at any time.

I only dabbled in sample playback, but it works like should. I made a loop and a one shot and they fired off correctly. The loops also sync to the master clock value if you have it selected, so they will play in time with the mix if you want them to. More on this later

PERFORMANCE

I'm not a turntablist, but I tried everything I could to shake the timecode pointer and make it lose track of the position. Seemed to be really stable and fast on things like needle drops. Just like all the other vinyl control packages, it has both relative and absolute modes.

But here's the thing that makes me feel all funny in the pants...

www.nem0nic.com - for a large view

See that? That's 2 decks running timecode, with 3 effects each, altered pitch, AND A VST EFFECT ON ONE OF THEM! So what you ask? Look in the bottom right corner of my screen and look at the CPU usage. Yes, you saw it right - it's 28%. WTF?! I was getting this kind of performance the whole 2 hours, with it hovering at around 11% when just playing 2 tracks without any extras. It dinged around 20% on deck loads because it had to build an overview (I didn't bother to analyze my tracks yet). This performance was verified in the Task Manager performance tab. Also, it's using both processors (I shouldn't be suprised, but thought I would mention it).

Sick stuff. I can't wait to delve deeper.

The next few days are going to be hell for me at work, so you won't hear much from me until around Monday. I'll resume my testing then and bring you another installment.

I have a question, on the website it says: "With a compatible audio interface like the M-Audio Conectiv, and one or more control vinyl/CDs, you can control digital files loaded in Torq with a traditional DJ setup."

Does that mean you DON'T NEED the box to run the program? Also, what are the other audio interfaces supported?

It doesn't say anything about using another interface that I can find, but I could easily try and use the Firewire 410 I have next week and see if it will work without the Conectiv interface.

You can use another audio card, but I don't think for vinyl control, not 100% sure though.

Ok thanks guys, so in esseence it is like SSL in regards to using the branded box.
Please keep reporting on your findings about reliability and extra functions Torq provides.

I'm now wanting MIDI control, effects/plugin support, auto synced loops, and (Ableton Live) rewire for SSL... :cries: ;)

Also Serato, why not give us some skin options bundled in the software at least (not user made)? At least a light one for outside day light use is essential...

This is somethign we fought HARD for when TDJS3 was in beta. Didn't get implemented (as you can probably tell). Now that I see it in action in Torq, I like the idea even more. The cool thing about color themes is that you can accomodate a wide range of needs relatively easily. Need high contrast because you're out in the sun? No problem. Need a different color scheme because you're color blind? It's there.

BTW here's more info for those interested:

"Hey guys! Chad Carrier here, Product Manager for SynchroScience at M-Audio. I just read through all the comments here on the forum and wanted to take a moment to clear up a few of the issues being discussed here.

The Conectiv Interface: First of all, the Conectiv interface is by no means a CONTROLLER--it is a straight-up 4x4 USB audio interface and has been mis-categorized in the above review as well as our own website (which has now been fixed). We put phono preamps on the inputs so you can directly connect your turntables to it without using any external boxes. For what it's worth, the Conectiv is analagous to the Scratch Amps from NI or the interface box from Serato--it is placed between the turntables/CD player and the DJ mixer.

So what are those big Mix knobs for? Those blend between the direct input (your turntables or CD players) and the audio from the computer. Since Torq will allow you to process your incoming signals through it's myriad of effects, you can use the Mix knobs as effect blends when using real records or CDs, making the system a dual-channel, multi-effect processor (three built-in effects and one VST effect PER DECK). Turn the Mix knob clockwise to introduce the effect you've dialed in on Torq.

Again, the Conectiv is just an audio interface--you're not supposed to mix with it in the way you do with the X-Session or something.

Sound Card functionality: The Conectiv is a full 4x4 ASIO and CoreAudio compatible audio interface so you're free to use it with any compatible application you want. No need to take a separate interface when you want to work on other programs.

ReWire functions: Torq does ReWire into Live--both applications will run simultaneously and will keep music in sync. Write beats in real-time in Live and they'll automatically sync up to the music in Torq or vice versa. Create weird loops and noises in Torq and immediately capture them as new Clips in Live. Isn't ReWire great?

The User Interface: Some of you think it looks a little "playskool". I figured some people may think this at first, but once you actually bring the interface up on a screen in a club, you're going to see the genius behind it's design.

First of all, the user interface is vectorized, meaning that it looks crisp and sharp at ANY screen resolution or aspect ratio. You can make the program really small (if you want to be able to see Live at the same time) and all the controls will shrink in size so everything is still available for you to use (no scroll bars for finding controls off screen).

Secondly, the colors we chose were based on studying car dashboards and their dials. We went for maximum visibility and minimal eye-strain. You'll find that you can be quite a few feet away from your laptop and will be able to clearly see all the vital information you need, such as BPMs, play times, waveforms, etc. The colors pop out against the dark backgroud, making the app look totally sick in the dark. The days of DJing with your head buried in the laptop screen are over. Nobody wants to go to a club and see a DJ that looks like he's checking his e-mail for two hours. ;-)

Thirdly, the interface is almost entirely graphical--if we could express something using a symbol or icon, we did so, instead of using words. It makes things easier to read since you don't have to squint to read tiny labels next to controls. It also makes it easier to use for all our international customers.

Yes, there is a lot of information on the user interface because Torq has so many features (built-in and VST effects, samplers, snapshots, waveforms, etc.). Like Live, we feel it's important to have all informaiton on one screen at once instead of having to sort your way through handfulls of pop-up windows. The only pop-ups you'll have to deal with are the VST windows. You can hide various parts of the screen, such as the Sampler, if you never use them. You can also make the database or waveforms go fullscreen for easier access.

The Sampler: Yes, Torq can record anything directly into its Sampler in real-time. You can capture loops from tracks you're playing, sample yourself talking on a mic, or perform drumming using the QuickCues and record the results. The loops will then play back in sync with the Master Tempo or you could immediately assign the sample to one of the Decks for scratching.

The Vinyl/CD Control: We are using the Ms. Pinky control system for Torq. It's the sickest I've ever seen and Scott makes it so easy to integrate his stuff that the decision was a no-brainer. Already have the Ms. Pinky records? You're in luck--they'll work with Torq. Same is true for the CD.

Well, that's about all the characters I get for this post, but I'll check back once in a while to see how you all are doing. I'll be very interested to hear all the crazy stuff you guys come up with once you have this extremely flexible tool in your hands"

taken from:
www.skratchworx.com

Exactly, the same as Ableton Live. I think you actually used the correct terminology: "color themes" or schemes... not actually skins like I called them. I don't want to change the look of the GUI, just the colors.

fuck that m-audio bullcrapp!!!! SERATO 4 LIFE!!!

I 2nd that!

if u all find out if u can use the rane records plz put it done :) i would love to use the yellow records easy to see

More info from the Chad dude who designed it:

Q: Can you disable Auto Beatmatching?
A: Yes. You actually have four different settings for the beatmatching:

- Bar: This will cause Torq to match tempos and also synchronize the positions of the songs so their downbeats are aligned.

- Beat: This will cause Torq to match tempos and will synchronize the positions of the music, but will only ensure that the beat markers are aligned--it is possible to have the doenbeats out of alignment.

- Tempo Only: This will cause Torq to match BPMs on the Decks, but will do nothing to synchronize the positions of the songs. It will be up to you to drop the track in at the right time and ensure it doesn't drift at all during playback. I like this one a lot.

- Off: If you don't click the Sync button on any of the Decks, you'll never trigger the auto beat-matching, so the program will behave like two old-school turntables. It will be up to the DJ to do the tempo and phase matching.

Q: Can we change MIDI assignments if we don't like the defaults?
A: Of course. In fact, Torq doesn't really have any defaults at all, except for a few special SynchroScience products that you all haven't seen yet. ;-) The Trigger Finger, for example, has no preset assignments at all. Since every DJ approaches the craft differently, it makes more sense for you to define your own MIDI and key assignments instead of trying to learn and remember ours.

In the cases where some products do come with pre-assigned maps, you'll always be able to change them to something else if you desire.

Q: Can you use other controllers with Torq?
A: Abosolutely. Torq will do MIDI Learns on incoming MIDI CCs and MIDI Notes. As long as your controller will transmit those types of messages, you'll be able to use it with Torq.

Q: Are the EFX pre- or post-fader?
A: The Effect Rack is inserted between the Deck and the Mixer, so the effects are all pre-fader for the time being.

Q: How many VSTs can be used on each Deck? How does it affect system latency?
A: Just one per Deck. Using multiple VSTs could create serious system latency because some VSTs need to buffer large amounts of audio in order to do their jobs. This is the same on any audio application--it's no different for Torq.

Q: Can the Conectiv be used as an audio out for Ableton Live? Does the mic input go into the computer?
A: Yes, the Conectiv is a full-function ASIO- and Core Audio-compatible audio interface. It's required for Torq to run, but you can use it as your audio interface for any other application, too. The Mic input can be routed into the computer, too.

Q: Will my Ms Pinky records work with Torq?
A: Yes. Torq will support Ms Pinky vinyl generations 1, 2, and 3.

Q: Can I loop playing audio?
A: Yes. If you're playing music from the internal Decks, you can use looping just like on a CD player. If you're using real records run through Torq, you can use the Repeat Effect to capture up to two-bars of incoming audio. You can then do all those stutter-edits with the effect right on your vinyl.

Q: Will this be Universal Binary?
A: It already is--it has to be. I was using a MacBook Pro Intel CoreDuo 2.0GHz 1GB RAM at the NAMM show. It will run on non-Intel machines, too, but keep in mind that there is a large performance gap between the fastest G4 laptop and the new Intel-based laptops. Apple unfortunately skipped over making any G5 laptops, so the old PowerBooks are not anywhere near the Intel-based MacBooks as far as performance is concerned. This is a full-featured application--it's doing things that haven't been possible with the slower computer technology of the past. Otherwise, we would have made this a lot sooner. ;-) As with anything, you'll want a fast computer to get the smoothest and cleanest results.

Q: Will this program be skinnable?
A: Yes, it already is, but only in the way Live is skinnable: The skins will change the colors of the interface only--the control shapes and positions will remain the same. This is due to the fact that we're using a vectorized GUI instead of bitmaps. Bitmaps are easy for anyone to create and add to an interface. The vetorized graphics actually have to be coded into the application. Sure, it make is harder/impossible to skin, but it allows all the cool resizing and scaling that's not possible with bitmapped-based GUIs.

Q: Latency?
A: On my MacBook Pro, I'm currently running Torq and the Conectiv at a 32 sample buffer size. Yeah, you read that right: 32 samples. Of course, slower computers may need higher latency settings, just like any other audio application.

Q: Sticker Drift?
A: That's one of the reasons I like the Ms Pinky system so much: It tracks position while the record is running backwards. This keeps everything in sync even during quick backcueing.

====

Interesting that there's more information about this product HERE than there is on M-Audio's own website.

Competition is good for everybody, don't be so closed minded! Trust me I love my Serato, I bought it as soon as it came out and have been using it ever since all the time, but if this M-Audio Torq proves to be as stable and responsive as Serato, plus with all the other features, I'm willing to sell SSL since this new thing has enormous potential. BUT, there's a lot of time to wait to see if it can actually deliver. We'll see...

Demo video here: www.gearwire.com

Uh Julls.... I'm thinking I might try this...better smack me before pick one up! ;-)

hands down, seratos interface is the best. i wont put too much time looking into the m-audio thing. and speaking of stability...i've had serato for awhile now, and it's never messed up on me once (god forbid).

Just a note. I've added an absolute mode sticker drift test that I'll post up tomorrow.

just curious... is there a "building overview" function in torq?? similar to SSL?

The games have begun .... . Torq has thrown the gauntlet ..
Can they suvive the game?

it looks like torq is more aimed at the 'dance' live remix scene that are probably using Ableton Live at the moment.

In the vid he only mentions the vinyl/cd control for about 2 sec's

Stick with the tried, tested, and true stuff peeps and let others be the mice in the maze. This shit just came out. Like buying a new car-- Be weary of first year models! ;)

I think I'm going to pick it up and play with it, it's pretty cheap.

I just reported for making such a retarded comment!

*you

i picked it up been using serato for 2 years but looking to enhance my performances might use it as a second system im still unsure i will post by monday on performance with a g4 powerbook with 2 gig of ram.

dont get me wrong serato has been a big part of my life but for $200 bucks that is what i paid with tax i say what the hell lets give her a rip and try it out.

also nem0nic are you sure that is what your box says for min req and recommend req mine are different.

Funny you should mention that. After hearing people talk about M-Audio previously recommending specs higher than I found on my box, I looked deeper. The Conectiv package comes in a box surrounded by a sleeve...

www.nem0nic.com

The sticker I got my original specs from is on the actual box. You can tell it's a sticker and can see the box through it.

www.nem0nic.com

Of course I opened up the package as soon as I got it and tossed the sleeve aside. But the folks at M-Audio also printed up COMPLETELY DIFFERENT specs on the sleeve.

www.nem0nic.com - yes, my camera is ASS-tastic.

Here are the specs printed on the outside sleeve (and thus to any customer that looks at the package).

Windows Minimum
XP SP2
Pentium 4 1.4ghz
512MB RAM

Windows Recommended
XP SP2
Pentium 4 2ghz (or greater)
1GB RAM
Hard Drive 7200RPM or faster

Mac Minimum
Mac OSX 10.4.7
G4 1.5ghz
1GB RAM
(See website for details on known issues of Macintosh System Performance)

Mac Recommended
OSX 10.4.7
Intel Core Duo 1.83ghz (or greater)
Dual G5 2ghz (or greater)
1GB RAM
Hard Drive 7200RPM or faster

Sorry guys. In my haste to get going (and knowing I wouldn't have much time to test over the weekend), I didn't even look at the outer sleeve. But now you have the scoop.

I'm going to do a sticker drift test later today before I have to go back to work, so more to come soon.

ah now we have the same specs. to see how it will do on the powerbook should be intresting

Mutiny...Insubordination....i sentence you to death by Bongo Bongo :)

STICKER DRIFT TEST

I want to apologize beforehand for the fact that the only video camera I have is a cameraphone. The image quality is pretty bad, but let me explain what I did and how I set it up.

I wanted to test how "absolute" the Torq absolute mode was. The best way I could think of to test this was to physically mark the vinyl and see if I could make it correspond with a specific event in an MP3. So what I did was load a little sample that I made (a simple loop with the "AHHHHH" sample in it about 45 seconds in) and loaded that MP3 into boh decks in Torq.

I then took a small piece of tape and set up an old school "locked groove" - an angled piece of tape set so that it would knock the needle back to the start of the groove every rotation. Yes, I am fucking old.

In the video below, I show you this mark and that it corresponds to the right point in the song (the AHHH sample). It loops for a bit, then I pan over to show the display scrolling and jumping in time to the audio.

I then move the needle into the record and do a few needle drops. What I'm trying to do here is clear out the buffer. I then move the needle back to the locked groove and show that it's still skipping at the same point it did before.

Next, I show you that the same sample is playing on the other deck using unmarked vinyl. Sorry it took me so long to get to the sample. Once I get there, I remove the unmarked record and bring my marked record over to that side. I needle drop and let it play until it gets to the locked groove. You can see that it correctly skips at the same place it did in the other deck.

So what this tells us is that absolute mode is really absolute, and that a point on the timecode vinyl always corresponds to a specific point in the song. This can be good or bad (good for visual reference - as the Conectiv vinyl is marked by a visual groove every minute, and bad because a skip or cue burn cant be mapped away from using an offset.

But I thought you guys would want to know this kind of info, as it relates directly to scratch oriented DJing.

www.nem0nic.com - for the video

This looks like a great preformance tool. I would use it in the studio and on stage with my band. As for people dancing to what I'm doing, I will most likely always prefere serato, cause I have never had it crash in 2 years.

Also, can someone verify about the other soundcard thing, cause I am trying to decide if I want to use this or mixvibes with my 57 when I am not djing a club. Also, I coudn't tel, does it have video?

Mike, what's Bongo Bongo? LOL, whatever that ish is it sounds funny as hell!

What you call bongo bongo, we call bunta. Death by BUNTA!

www.urbandictionary.com definition #2

i forget how that joke goes... its funny though :)

I don't even like the name. Torq...sounds like a superhero from the 80's.

www.djstuart.com.ar

wow, the wax label looks very similar to ssl's

Imitation .... best form of suckery ..

could be wrong but i think it goes 3 men are on a island they get caught sleeping with a daughter (i think) the 3 men then have a choice death or bunta the first guy chooses bunta not knowing what it is when the 2nd man see's this he say no way i will take death so they kill the 2nd guy then the chief asks the 3rd man how he would like his punishment by death or bunta and the 3rd guy says hu death or bunta death or bunta (which one do i choose) the chief yells death by bunta

correct me if im wrong havent heard it in a long time

come on now its funny how everyone starts talking sh*t before they even know about the differences between ssl and torq..

im not sayin torq will be better nor worse but ease up fanboys. i been a ssl user for 2 years and swear by it but i was also a protools user and swore by it till logic pro caught my eye.

dont be quick to judge. it may be a good tool for dj's or maybe it will get rane serato busy to add some of the features torq has to ssl.

lets be open minded instead of a i love serato everything else sucks cause i said so board.

if competition didnt come out there would never be improvement in current products to date.

torq looks great, lets not lie.

it looks great. honest, it looks brilliant, as far as control goes for house djs, its brilliant.

it would also be great for some real creative mixing.

the amputate mode works great, to be able to spin out with just one deck.

theyv put an awful lot of thought into this... and im genuinely impressed.

it attacks the digital dj solution world from a whole different angle. serato achieves a different thing than this, and i would... seriously... think about purchasing this.

oh - but not in REPLACEMENT of serato...

as well as.

I'm hearing a whole butt-load of "groupie love."

The only thing that got judged in that remark was the imitation aspect of their vinyl ...... unless you saw something else.

Advantages of Torq over SSL based on information posted thus far?

1. Midi Support. Midi controllers like the DAC-3 will work with Torq in internal mode.

2. ASIO outputs. If you're using other software like Hoster for karaoke, PCDJ, etc you can use Torq as an ASIO sound card for these applications.

3. VST Effects. Don't get anything like this with SSL unless you drop $1.4K for a 57SL.

4. Price. It's dirt cheap... coming in at about half the price of SSL.

Advantages of SSL:
1. Stability. It's known to be rock solid for hours and hours of sets.

2. Very few problems in general. When you compare the 'known problems' section with other products there are actually VERY few issues with SSL in comparision to other products out there.


I'm sure there are lots more on both sides... but the 4 items I listed are core advantages to the product that I don't see SSL adding anytime in the REAL near future...

I'm watching the testing closely to see what comes of it... and I'm REAL interested to see how it handles real world tests playing live.

Well, I bought Torq last night for $269 at Guitar Center. I've seen cheaper online, but that was good enough for me. Almost half the price I paid for SSL a while back. It seems very stable so far. It DOES NOT alter your mp3s at all. Instead it creates a refernce file called a .TQD file. So song.mp3 has another file in the same folder called song.tqd. I believe this is where your overview, cue points, loop points, bpm info, etc are stored. All of the mp3s that I imported in have the same modified date so nothing is altered to the mp3. That way Torq can't corrupt your files since all it does is read it and not write to it. The only bad thing about that is that the .TQD files are over 100KB each. The ones I see are 126KB to 189KB, I assume they just get bigger depending on how long the mp3 is or if you add more data like cue points. Now I wish there was some sort of program that will read all my ssl cue points and convert them to torq cue points since I set cue points in almost all of my songs. I'll add more info after this weekend. I'm definetly sticking to my ttm-57 and serato for all my weekend gigs, but I may be ready to swing in a torq set next weekend.

That is a good thing.

Let me chime in here and say that I'm not trying to start a drama bomb, and would like for this thread to NOT turn into one. I'm not saying anything negative about ANY other product out there. I had planned to buy Conectiv as soon as it was available and test it so folks would know what to expect. It's a new player in the DJ market, and there are some questions of quality given it's VERY cheap price.

If SSL (or FS, Mixvibes, VDJ, or whatever else) works in your application, then you made a good choice. But the more products are on the market serving different needs, the better off we all have it. 3 years ago we didn't have a choice for a vinyl control system. Now we can choose what we want depending on the features that are important to us. Arguing about which system is "better" is as stupid as arguing about what gaming console is "better". Better for who?

I find Torque very interesting....

people are saying it's for hosue DJ's/EDM DJ's etc...


Well i spin both Hip Hop & House and I can see myself using this in a tablist manner as well as just a creative mixing manner.

I like Serato, i'm just getting it just right, and i have it encorporated into other stuff thats lets me work in a manner quite similar to Torque...but i'm still interested to see how Trque holds up.

The more competition the better, it pushes developers to make a REALLY good product so that their model satnds out above the rest of the pack.

How can that be a bad thing?

As for imtitaion? lets face facts guys, it uses wax, and it uses an application... most of these things look similar app's especially when you get into the music genre.

more torq advantages:

-auto loops
-bpm detection
-sampler
-rewire support to sync ableton live painlessly
-color themes
-customizable interface

more competition then serato and the others have to make their products better!
thats only good for us hope they look at this and try and incorporate some of the features that could work!

this product is so cheap!

i love SSL but i might just buy it just to have!

if everyone is gonna get competitive, there's no reason not to get both sides and reap the benefits from both companies :)

i just need to find a way to hide that interface in my coffin....

how big is it?

See, now everyone's happy! I'm in full agreement with most of us here.

The question is: will the Serato engineers keep making excuses, or add the features that we've so pleasantly requested for so long, while others already have them?

Torq has every feature that I wish SSL had, I might have to sell my SSL and cop it. The only thing is that I really question the quality because, at under 300 dollars it seems too good to be true. I'd like to see a review from Scratchworx.com.

SEE THAT, Sam??! I'm tired of excuses!! Please add the features! If m-audio kicks your butt, which they have a good chance of doing, who will want to hear excuses, then?!

well alright let's be nice to the SSL people. i think the biggest gripe i have with rane and serato is not their product, but rather the time it's taking to make improvements on it.

we had 1.3, then 1.4, then 1.5. then they promised that we'd get master tempo in 1.7, and then look what happened? we got 1.6, then 1.6.1, then 2 betas, then 1.6.2......

hmm. as if we didn't notice.

i love SSL very much and i trust it on all of my important events but come on! there is nothing stopping me from staying exclusive!

SSL is like the good girlfriend that does nothing wrong, but doesn't do anything interesting in bed :)

... so... what's her number?

i've never seen a company come out with more improvements faster than the serato team. you are nuts.

.... you want the freaky stuff heehhh ??.. dont you ??

"Lady in the street but a freak in the bed" !!!

...and Torq is like a cheap, sexy whore from the house of skank thats down for anything.

M-audio being the "house of skank".

This is huge!

(And M-Audio will also have free updates).

Let me add perpective..



The only reason people liked SSL is because the competition was Final Scratch, who tanked royally, while SSL lasted. If torq were around 3 years ago, SSL would be on the high it is on now. M-Audio won't tank and will be reliable like its other products...

[qoute]3 years ago we didn't have a choice for a vinyl control system.

And now you do, buy the close-minded people here who are very anxious about the show, where they can't afford a crash, won't trust anything else. Well I am here to tell you now, in two years when torq lives up to the M-Audio name, the truth about paying double for SSL will be very clear.



Face it, the New Zealanders are not the best, fastest, or highest ranked software engineers in the world. People on this board are under that impression. Don't expect their hold on the market to last too long. This is prophecy. I keep saying this over and over --->>> the only reason they got a jump-start is because they were the first two companies to do it, while the other company named Final Scratch tanked.

Serato, drop that price in half if you know what's good for survival!

I guess you don't know much about Avid/DigiDesign, huh? Are you a Serato operative? How old are you, because that statement may have had no basis in reality?

I was answerng to b-random.

I think that is a response to here...

Preach on, Brother! Yes!

Dude, do you work for M-Audio? I bet your the dude in the Summer Namm 06 video who claimed he programmed Torq. Nice tooting your own horn fat boy.

I was just messing around, I think Torq looks cool, I just want to see a review.

No, my name is Clark F. White. I live in the Atlanta, GA area. I DJ clubs, work for a cable contractor, promote records and run a web-site.

I don't know anyone at M-Audio, "fan boy." I'm not a boy, either, so watch your tone.

Remember: the "conditioning"/report button was made for forum gangsters like you. Don't make me report you to Big Brother way in Aussie-land.

You better say your sorry, text-mail thug!

Dude, why the fu*k are you talking about New Zealanders in general? What do you know about software development anyway?

I truely think Torq will be great for SSL users, ANY competition is good. But you ripples just whine about key-correction not implemented. Jesus. There are so many details which SSL has, the other software lacks. Ever tried using an external drive attaching while the software is running and seeing all your crates pop up? This for example was a *huge* pain for FS users.

Anyway, if you love SSL, you definitly will hope that torq will be good! As said, competition makes things evolve.

Can police officers really say "dude" in Germany? Also, did you just call us potato chips? I couldn't find a valid definition of "ripples" on www.m-w.com .

Also, a FS reference here is invalid. Stanton should change their name.

jeez, my post was directed at ripples as a joke and I called him a "FAT boy" not a fan boy. Nice droping your resume though, I really needed that info.

Ripples: I'm sorry. I forgot that a person on the forum was named "ripples." I thought nik69 was using an obscure slang term, seriously.

b-random: I know what you said, you ringtone pirate.

Eh, not sure, if you're kidding or not, I meant with "you ripples" = you, the guy with the forum user name "ripples". Not "you all guys are ripples".

You know you called ME a "fat boy." You WILL be conditioned!

Yes, nik69... I misunderstood. I'm sorry.

No, worries, Chalk @ breaking-records dot com

:-P

I love the fact that Torq runs the cpu at only 20-30% with both decks running, Lower percentage means cooler laptop which means better laptop performance.

I would like to know the actual real total system latency. This determines the CPU load a lot.

I want to further clarify a misconception..



M-Audio is owned by Avid, who also owns pro tools. In case you don't know Avid is a very reputable video editing soft that is used by many of the major motion picture production houses.

Avid is a company that is traded on the stock exchange, so that would put its 'stock' way above Rane or Serato. You don't get on the stock exchange by making products that crash like Final Scratch.

Avid has been used on movies such as King Kong, Superman, The Black Dahlia, Free Jimmy, Spike Lee's movie about Katrina, Pirates of the Caribbean: Dead Man’s Chest, that movie about A Scanner Darkly with Keanu Reeves, Winona Ryder, Woody Harrelson, and Robert Downey Jr, The Da Vinci Code, The Chronicles of Narnia, Memoirs of a Geisha, Brokeback Mountain, The Dukes of Hazzard, Batman Begins, Hustle & Flow, Million Dollar Baby, Ray, Shrek 2, The Machines are On the Rise in Terminator 3, The Hulk, "Matrix" Trilogy, and yes Star Wars: Episode I The Phantom Menace.

Now, you can clearly see that some of these clients are people that require THE BEST in video editing and these clients are no joke.

With Avid being traded on the stock exchange, and their products used by real hard core professionals, not minor little DJs like us, this also means Avid's company, M-Audio, can afford software engineers that aren't just B+ or A-. They can afford the best of the best.

Avid, which owns M-Audio cannot afford to have a sub company that make software that crashed or that is unreliable. It is that simple. M-Audio can afford to offer better service for a lower price because they are simply a better and a much bigger company. Who can dispute this? They can afford to hire the best coders. In fact, the might give Steve a job soon.

This is a key point. Avid also owns Pro-Tools. Serato got its clam to fame by making a plug in for Pro Tools, which is Pitch & Time. If there wasn't a Pro Tools, there might not be a Serato. Avid, owns both Pro Tools and M-Audio. It is a stock traded company. It is because of one of Avid companies, Pro-Tools that we even have Serato. So why the expectation that the other Avid company can never be as good a Serato? I think it is just blind.

Ummm... I was doing research and as a hiphop dj, it looks like if you can't use your mixer to mix, you have to use that hardware interface... am I right? If so... pass.

I'd like to know the latency too, it's all well and good saying "256 samples" or "32 samples" but is that in and out and what's the latency of the software. If somebody has the time can they do a latency test. AJ explains how here scratchlive.net

this should help..

No, you simply pick the EXTERNAL MIXER option and it works just like any other vinyl emu package out there.

Would be really interesting.

nipples, mines a FS2 is selling it to you if you no likings inside of SL2

Just got done measuring latency of Torq as outlined by AJ in the above link. Results are shown in screenshots below, and I will summarize here.

If I recall correctly, there are 48 samples per millisecond (I hope thats right considering I based my math on that). If the Conectiv interface is set to 256 samples (the default setting, and where I had it initially), then real latency is 773 samples - or 16.1ms. If Conectiv is set to 128 samples, the latency is 502 samples - or 10.5ms latency.

So this puts Torq in the middle of SSL and FS2 as far as latency goes. Here are the pics...

www.nem0nic.com
www.nem0nic.com

Note that not only were both the Conectiv and the Firewire 410 I used connected to the same computer, but I was also running ProTools and Torq on the same box as well. I'm not sure if it would effect the test at all, but I thought I would bring it up.

On another interesting note, if you have PT open already and try to open Torq, IT WILL NOT STAY OPEN. It open and closes. You have to open PT first, then Torq. Also, PTMP doesn't recognise the Conectiv interface yet as a compliant interface (but the M-Audio literature says it will).

There you go guys.

Another note.

I extracted a track from one of the Torq timecode CDs and set the Torq preferences to "Torq CD" and used that as my timecode source. I then split this track in two and seperated the halves by 1 second like AJ said.

The audio track is a 30 second long clip of A440 tone converted to a 320kbps MP3.

Thanks nem0nic. I can not tell the difference between the 2 as far as latency.
I have been playing a lot with the pitch shift and if definetly works, but anything more than 3 above or 3 below doesn't sound as good as it could be. I hope they improve that.

User "ripples" obviously never used Pro Tools 7.0.

Enough said.

At the top of the ProTools interface, there is a black window with green lettering. In that section, you can see the values for START, END, and LENGTH. In the waveform view, you can see that I highlighted the space between where the timecode picks up and where the audio sample starts. This space represents the real world latency. So you just take the LENGTH value and convert it into milliseconds and you have your latency number.


I do too. But remember that you can use any pitch shifting VST you'd like to do that instead. Kind of a nice option to have.

Check out the video Justin put together.

Watchwww.vimeo.com

lol... user "ripples" likes this...

Why refer to yourself in the third person? Its kinda funny. Made me laugh.

I like you julls... I have read mucho on this board and your one cool customer!

Great scratch-demo :D ;)

ok, so 10.5 ms for Torq. Thats like buffersetting 3-4 on SSL. I can feel a difference in scratching between 3-4 and 1. So SSL is still KING in terms of scratching.

Um? Thanks.

WOW..That was great! Anyone for cheesecake!?

Here, you can have the first slice. img167.imageshack.us

I was worried that you would psot a link of some nasty hoe with warts...

but, alas, cheesecake... Thanks!

LOL

Julls is getting re-aquainted with user click, ooops I mean ripples.

Barry get a life.

Lets battle Julls. I'll take both you and click on. At the same time. I might not be able to mix from 1 song to the next during the alotted time, but you will be sorry you ever tried to step to me.

From looking at Barry's old posts, I think he was very cool. Almost as cool as click/ripples. They didn't get along all that well though.

Instead of spending countless hours typing some dumb shit, shouldn't you be perfecting your skills for the next DMC battle?

Barry, seriously. Why do you feel the need to try and stir some shit up?

Before I battle you, study this video! Watchwww.youtube.com Nuff said.

Julls, don't let his childish antics get to you. Don't you know trolls hide under bridges?

Haahahaaaha!

lmao! even click thinks that's funny!

Julls, check this link out before you set up your lighting at the next army BBQ:

www.hometheatermag.com

This sounds better.

Thanks for the latency measurements nem0nic, is 128 samples the lowest setting? Does the CPU usage increase a lot when you set it to this setting?

Your memory is faulty. Assuming CD audio, you have 44100 samples per second, or 44.1 samples per millisecond.

This gets interesting every minute, Audio is nothing compared to video, I used to use one of Avids entry level video programs and let me tell you it was one solid program, at that time that particular sofware I was using was a "entry level" program but it was PERFECT

If the folks at M-Audio do have software support from Avid, Rane will definitely have to step things up......As fast as the updates have been coming out, Im predicting we get 1.7 pretty soon, thats how much of a player i think Avid is. If not I may have to sell my backup SL1 to get one of those M-Audio things. Competition is good.

Im really surprised this thread hasnt been locked yet for advertising a product, maybe rane doesnt want to show fear....and thats a good thing!

Holy shit, Ive never been to the M-Audio site till now & i just saw it with my own eyes M-Audio A part of AVID, and WTF do they also own ableton? Im not to familiar with ableton. Ive heard it talked about on here, Ive never really understood it but im asuming that its also a stable program.

www.nem0nic.com

Are there higher values to choose?

I am no soundengineer but when i choose 192khz on my ESI soundcard-driver i will get 0,3ms latency according to Sonar. (i get 2.5 @ 44khz)

phil use 192 is a waste of hard drive space but maybe you dont typically use that sample rate.

if your intrested in learning alittle more about sample rates and how the ear responds etc you should look into the nyquist theorem.

dont ask why i know this other then i am an audio engineer .

Yeah but Sonar tells me that i have incredibly low latency (0.3ms) while using 192khz, compared to 44khz (2.5 ms)

I know its somehow useless but maybe latency drops down even more for Torque.

Simple question, can you use 3 decks on this? Like 1 internal and 2 relative?

There is a difference between the system sample rate and the songs sample rate. If a higher samplerate gives a lower system latency, why not using it? As long as the application offers dithering and the usage of lower songs bitrates I wouldnt worry.

isn't the minimum spec for using torq much higher than that for ssl? I think i recall seeing something like 1.83mhz is the min processor for osx.....i could be totally wrong. anybody know for sure? if that's the case, my current g4 ibook isn't even good enough to run torq!!

www.m-audio.com

If anyone is interested here is review under construction by your trully.


www.prodjforums.com

Too damn early, sorry about the ^ typo's above.

It is constantly updated. So check back periodically.

If there is anything anyone would like me to add please ask.

And, again, no, I am not getting rid of my TTM57 or SL1, these are proven by me for my application and I love my TTM57.

What is the diff between that minimum spec and this one?

www.m-audio.com

thanks, MDX.

just so everybody sees this, here are the minimum and recommended requirements for torq with macs. I guess i confused the minimum with the recommended. still, as you can see from the fine print, my less-than-one-year-old g4 ibook, at 1.33mhz, is underpowered and not guaranteed to work with all of the extra feaurures of torq.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
----------TAKENFROM M-AUDIO'S SITE:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
----------

Mac OS X 10.4.6


CPU: G4** 1.25GHz


RAM: 512MB


USB: One available port (for use by approved SynchroScience hardware device)


Recommended System Requirements


Mac Laptop
OS: Mac OS X 10.4.7
CPU: Mac/Intel Core Duo 1.83GHz or greater
RAM: 1GB
USB: One available port (for use by approved SynchroScience hardware device)
Hard drive: 7200 RPM or faster


Mac Desktop
OS: Mac OS X 10.4.7
CPU: Dual G5 2GHz
RAM: 1GB
USB: One available port (for use by approved SynchroScience hardware device)
Hard drive: 7200 RPM or faster

*Minimum system requirements reflect the ability to run Torq using a basic feature set. Some advanced or intensive operations and features may be limited by these hardware configurations.
**Mac G4 users are strongly advised to pre-analyze all audio files prior to use in Torq.

I figured it out..

M-Audio says if you use it with connectiv (which is anogulous with the SS1 box), the minimum specs are lower..

here... www.m-audio.com

Wow DJ MDX, I really like the changable skins..

!!!!

just read mdx's review on prodjforums. according to .pdf manual, the specs have risen even higher...

-------------------------------------------------
Minimum System Requirements
Mac OSX 10.4.7
Mac G4 1.5 GHz
1 GB RAM
One available USB Port
-------------------------------------------------

very curious to hear more about this. recommended was uppped to 1.83ghz. these specs require a significantly more expensive computer than ssl does.

No, just 44.1 and 48.


This app only does 2 decks + the sample bank. Samples can quickly be moved into a deck for manipulation, but at it's core there's only 2 decks.

I posted about this a couple days ago. I BELIEVE that the 2 different sets of system requirements refer to different things. I think the lower published specs are for the Conectiv interface ONLY (which would make sense at that point), and the higher specs are for the whole system (running the Torq software).

Either that or the M-Audio marketing guys have been hitting the crackpipe.

Comon now nem0nic, that's not frakking fair!!!

Who hasn't hit the crackpipe?








Mmmmm cheesecake!

Oh well. It looks like it will be a while before I test-drive Torq. My desktop meets recommended specs for a PC, however my laptop is deficient in a few areas. I'm not ready to dish out the chedda for a new laptop just yet.

Minimum System Requirements (PC)

OS: Windows
CPU: Pentium III 933MHz
RAM: 256MB
USB: One available port (for use by approved SynchroScience hardware device)

Recommended System Requirements

OS: Windows
CPU: Pentium IV 2GHz or greater
RAM: 1GB
USB: One available port (for use by approved SynchroScience hardware device)
Hard drive: 7200 RPM or faster

*Minimum system requirements reflect the ability to run Torq using a basic feature set. Some advanced or intensive operations and features may be limited by these hardware configurations.

i am reading that review posted above. everythign looks good except for the use of pitch lock....

"You will play deck A at the desired tempo. When the speed is where you want it at to lock the key (or get it to its original state) you will hit the Key Lock feature. Now you match the BPM from deck B to deck A and do the same. Once the BPM is Matched you will hit the Key Lock on the deck B to return the key to it’s original state but keeping the current match of BPM.

Now understand this is all done while monitoring and matching BPM in your headphones. You do not introduce it to the main mix until you have everything the way you want it. With enough practice it does not really seem like any trouble, some getting used to yes, but in time it could be automatic to you."

umm, so key lock doesnt work while you're mixing? is that what i'm reading? i want key lock so i can mix a little more on the fly and have it sound a bit cleaner when making my adjustments - this has no use to me this way.

i can't imagine thats the way it works...

bump..

Yup. Thanks for the heads up. I've looked into this a little more and the way Torq handles "key locking" is kinda funky. Here's the scoop.

If you're in internal mode, Key Lock acts just as you think it would. It's actually on by default and you click the lock to turn it off.

In external control mode, however, this behavior changes.

When using a TT or CD to control the decks, pressing the key lock loads a key offset value into the Key display here...

www.nem0nic.com

The offset is the difference between the current speed of the song and it's original value. So it's not tracking changes in real time. But hey, you just have to make your adjustment and hit the button, right?

Wrong. This is the freaky part.

The Key offset is determined by the Speed section next to it.

www.nem0nic.com

When you make chanes to the physical speed of the timecode source (using the pitch slider), the AUDIBLE change is instant. But the section highlighted in the key2 pic tracks that change SLOWLY over 2 or 3 seconds. You can see this value creep when you make changes in pitch. So, if you hit the Key Lock button before the Speed value has settled into it's final position, you'll introduce an INCORRECT OFFSET in the Key section.

This is VASTLY inferior to the way FS2/TDJS handles key changes, and I'm sure to the way SSL's 1.7 key locking feature will as well. Another chink in the armor.

Hopefully M-Audio will see that this is NOT the way we want our key locking and will change this functionality in an update.

I don't think there's any chance of this thread being locked. Why would Serato lock a thread that is giving them loads of info on the competition.

One thing I really like the sound of is the vector interface. At home I use SSL on a screen 1280x1024, when I shift to my laptop screen at 1024x768 everything on the screen is huge, especially the 57 control panel.

Can m-audio get pattents for the stuff listed above that are not in Serato now?

I don't know, this thing looks pretty cool. If I have anything negative to say about it, it's that it seems like it makes it much easier for microwave dj's to get work. Maybe it does too much. Seems like Torq is perfect for EDM dj's and Serato is more for the OG DJ who likes to keep it old school.

I don't think you can patent software, the software is protected by copyright but that doesn't stop Serato taking an idea improving it and writing their own version.
There is a patent on the technology used for vinyl control in final scratch. SSL doesn't infringe on this patent even though it is basically doing the same thing, it does it in a different way.

Interesting..

damn about the key lock! i was really starting to dig some of these features i'm hearing about.

i'm also curious as to why there are 4 tracks on the timecode discs - does it allow you to jump between four different tracks per disc? that would be an automatic seller for me.

auto beat matching, key locking...all it needs is a clear front door and a clock.

I got it!

from GS and I just want to say this thing is AMAZING, real power full. I used it with the for about four or five hours.

I wish to SSL in that way.

SOrry.

I got it!

from GC and I just want to say this thing is AMAZING, real power full. I used it with the Trigger Finger for about four or five hours.

I wish to SSL in that way.

It's interesting regarding the problems with key lock. I'm curious to see if they make a correction to that issue in the near future.

I stopped and looked at the package today at Guitar Center but didn't pick it up. I was tempted but I'm going to wait just a little longer for some more feedback. I'm wanting to see how many people use this product for 6-8 hours at a time without a failure or it locking up.

In the meantime, different countries work with software and software patents differently. The use of vector based graphics to create the interface is nothing new - having been used for quite some time by a number of software packages. Copying the code would be a problem, but creating a vector based interface likely would NOT be the issue. The 'problem' as was already mentioned, is that most of the users want to skin software and it's damn hard to skin a vector interface. Sure you can modify the colors but skinning is a completely different animal.

I look forward to more information and feedback on the product. I've used SSL and I'm still thinking of it as the way to go, but I REALLY want the ability to use a midi controller while in internal mode (like the DAC-3) for those times when I'm doing weddings and the like where manipulation of the playback isn't necessary. I can then take advantage of both the controller and manipulation by TT when doing club gigs and other times when I need those features.

SSL has the manipulation down COLD. But midi support is important to me.... It is/was the first thing I asked for in the features request. I'd rather have midi control than pitch lock to tell the truth.

Alas, I'll wait and see what happens... It's likely that I end up with Torq for a while until SSL steps up and joins the midi game... Til then, I'm REAL interested in hearing more from those that are using the product currently...

I'm also waiting for the midi in SSL...

---

It looks very interesting and I'm happy to hear Scott has got his MsPinky vinyl licenesed in this system. He now officially supports the hardware on his forums as well.

As an SSL user and MsPinky user I see this as a win-win for me. SSL will now have to turn up the burner a bit hotter and MsPinky now has a soundcard for cheap (at least cheaper).

If anyone is wondering, MsPinky has been doing video mixing for a long time now. This was one of the main reason I got it. The other being that he gives you an SDK so you can use the vinyl tracking code to do as you wish... scroll through folder, vibrate your chair....etc.

Anyways this is good news for everyone and will only promote growth in the Digital DJing business.

I almost bought Ms. Pinky a while back but didn't because I didn't care for the interface. IIRC, they didn't offer control CD's either (but I could be wrong on this last item.. it's been a while since I checked).

The system has pretty good reviews all in all though. BTW, there are other products built on the Ms. Pinky SDK including PCDJ's Scratch product.

Please, please, please Rane/Serato offer a midi solution soon...

Locking this thread would be so Final Scratchy or Native Biach ... the best response is to hit back where it counts .. the balls.
So far we have heard lots of hoopla from Torc fanboys ad Serato haters. Not really real world conditions wih DJs in the field only time will tell. I really would like to see this thing in action ..... and a mass exodus ... for me to consider it. SSL does the job for me right now. You'd have to suck my jewels right now to make me change.

ps: what happened to that NuCraps video thingamajig ?

Serato haters? Dont the people in this thread who bought torq have serato too? Your the one coming off as a fanboy in fairness. I love my serato but im going to get torq cos serato is being left behind as far as im concerned, we are waiting for basic features for far too long.

MsPinky doesn't include CD's but he will let you download the CD vinyl tracking signal for free. I'm pretty sure its the same CD's that the torq use.

Can anyone with Torq check the CD's to see if it says something about it?

The Torq CDs only have 4 tracks of timecode on them, Mex. Let me know what to look for and I'll check it out.

Torq fanboys 42000? Everyone knows I'm a FS fanboy!

From Wikipedia...


Yup. Sounds like me alright. And while I don't own SSL, I think you'll find that I have ALWAYS been very complimentary of it, and OFTEN recommend it over other vinyl control systems.

amen!

Here is the offical post by Scott on his forums:

"The Torq vinyl is a scrambled version of Ms Pinky's Generation 4 vinyl. On the label of the Torq vinyl there is some fine print that reads "Ms Pinky Vinyl/CD Control System, Copyright 2006 Baby Talk FX, LLC. Used under license."

The new UB version of Binky Toy supports Torq vinyl as "MP6".

And as of today, I'm really encouraging everyone to NOT buy the U46DJ any more and to substitute the M-Audio Conectiv interface instead. We've been testing the Conectiv with Ms Pinky software (and Torq, too) for the past couple of weeks and it is really WAY better than the U46DJ. Torq is a really great application, too, and you can actually use your Ms Pinky records with Torq."

So it is the MsPinky Vinyl & CD's being used.

Amen, "Bred-ren."

You can have 3 colours of vinyl to choose from for M-audio:

www.mspinky.com

Black (Torq or MsPinky labeled)
Pink
Half and Half

I see a coup a brewin'. Is Serato planning to do anything by the 1.7 version. I really hope so, because I'd hate to spend money for another interface. I'm imagining how FS custy's felt when Scratch Live was unveiled.

I'm starting to try some more advanced track creation techniques that require an ASIO interface. Given the price of Torq on the street I almost can't help but buy one as it's marginally more than the cost of a decent USB based ASIO sound card.

Clark: As for 1.7, SSL staff has mentioned that a master pitch/pitch lock/key lock mechanism will be included. Other than that, the cards are being held close to the vest from what I've seen here on the forums.

I'm sure Rane/Serato will put out a nice hand... but 1.7 might be still a more then a bit away.

They are still working on 1.6.3... so who knows how many minor versions come out before 1.7 does.

I'm not against the minor versions as I'm way more for stability then features.

1.62 seems stable enough, lets just skip 1.64 1.65 1.66 1.67 1.68 1.690

AND ALSO SKIP

1.6901
1.6902
1.6903
1.6904
1.6905
1.6906
1.6907
1.6908
1.6909
1.6910
1.6911
1.6912
1.6913
1.6914
1.6915
1.6916
1.6917
1.6918
1.6919...........1.698, 1.699

And just head straight to 1.70

i Picked up torq today and tested..its a great app, the conectiv is very useful as it can be used for everything else. BUT...my powerbook 800mghz/1 gig ram just didnt manage to run Torq, although it works, i feel like i have a 25 year old computer!..Torq needs serious power to work. If you dont have an intel core duo 1.83 or above, then hang on before throwing down ya credit card like I did! Serato works on anything and has proven itself as a reliable app.

One thing I did notice with CDs...you dont get the problem with the cue start blip like serato...Torq seems to have solved that problem, but i cant use it till i update :(

I just wanted to mention the major feature that's been confirmed for that release by the staff.

Now if I can just get verification for ASIO and midi....

Conectiv online price (www.pssl.com) is $250US w/o vinyl and CD's and $300 w/ them.


So if you already have ms pinky vinyl then you dont need new ones.

I think my microwave just ding'ed.

he can still be saved Julls...

I hope so.

^^Hahahaaahaaaha!!!!! I love this forum....

is not a legal to talking it here onside a serato

are you high?

Quote:
is not a legal to talking it here onside a serato


am i crazy or does that quote makes no sense unless you are off your tits!

Well I got a chance to play with Torq over the weekend and it didn't crash on me once. I still used Serato at the 2 clubs I played at this weekend, but if everything goes well this week, I might use Torq at the club Friday night. Anyone in Seattle want to see it in action?

I'm still hoping someone creates a program that will read the cue points in SSL and convert them to Torq so I don't have to go through my whole library and create new cue points again.

O.K. Torq nice futures, but SSL is the best. Why?

I love the files browser of SSL (specialy the create style)

I love the overviews builder 'couse the waveform continue running while building overviews (while playing musics)

I love SSL cues, real nice.

SSL play OGG (almost all my musics is OGG)

SSL never gets froze on my 1.5 GHZ laptop
(I got torq froze twice in two hours)

SSL audio buffer size at 5, CPU used 30-47%
(Torq buffer size 512 sample rate 41000 CPU used 57%, just one deck without any effects)

I don't know but I feel SSl really power

So.... I gonna return Conectiv/Torq and get some cheap effector processor likes the Tweakalizer, while SERATO bring something in the future.

SSL is the way!!!!!

So, has someone finally tested Torq's real-world latency. Is audio buffer size the only variable of latency?

Yeah, I posted it above, but the short of it is that Torq/Conectiv's best real world latency in my tests was 10.5ms. that puts it right in the middle of SSL (at 7ms) and FS2 (at 21ms). The added latency over SSL doesn't suprise me considering the addition of key change and effect functionality.

Note that if you plan on using VSTs in line that will add additional latency (and that additional latency will change between different plugins due to the variable amount of buffering the plugins do).

i have to have my buffer set at 196 for my pb 1.67 with 2 gigs of ram and 7200 rpm internal drive. so far not that impressed but it could be my lack of knowing how to fully use the program. im gonna play with it more tomorrow so i will post some feedback.. oh im using control records too.

Interesting...

I have a Tweakalizer... not using it - yet (thanks Julls) but if all goes well I might get a chance to try the Connectiv interface later this week or early next week.

I'm curious to see how hard it hits my new laptop vs. SSL...


Julls - if I pick up Torq are you up for some real world head to head testing? If nothing else can I borrow your SSL box for a couple days while I do some testing?

I bought it yesterday. It has a lot of cool ideas but it's not ready for prime time yet. I'm returning it. Back to Serato for me. Torq reminds me a lot like Ableton Live ver 1. A lot of good ideas that will eventially form a GREAT product but still isn't fully formed. The two biggest things are the file browser: very weak and limited. I take for granted how well the file browser works in Serato. And the lack of multicolored wave overviews that are colored by spectral content. I want to see where the bass drops are or aren't. The big knobs on Conectiv are a problem because you can't wedge it into little spaces like you can with the Rane box. Also, it's too easy to bump the knobs and have the control signal leak into your audio.

M-Audio needs to come up with a dedicated controller for Torq. It's real strength is in internal mode but it needs a well thought out controller to make it shine. I'll buy version 3.

Ya mean no FREE UPDATES ?

Reading comprehension ++

He's taking it back, and might come back to it when it's more properly developed. No one said anything about updates.

Beale, I tend to agree. I'll be keeping mine, but I'll continue to use TDJS 3 until Torq is better implemented. That said, I'm putting together a MIDI mapping for the Feena FMDJ9303 MIDI controller right now and it really makes a big difference in the usability of internal mode. I think tis controller works better with Torq than it does with TDJS (which it was initially designed for).

deduction logic -

Since he will buy version 3 anyway, and mention of free updates has been made numerous times, waiting for those said updates is not a bad idea after all .. unless the dude that mentioned free updates earlier was just blowing hot flatulence.

I'll OWN you if you go head to head with SSL! ahhhhhh freeeeesh. haha.

Yeah, just let me know when you want to borrow my SL1. Or we can jam out and go head to head. Its up to you. Just keep me posted.

No problem.

I'm taking it back to use today's cash on something today instead of spending it on something that MIGHT be usable tomorrow.

Nemonic, that Feena control looks cool as hell. It seems like the only DJ-centric controller I've seen that I could live with. I might spend my Torq money on one of those and use it with Ableton.

OT: Woo hoo! My Jomox Xbase09 should arrive today. No more wimpy kick drums!!!

I called customer service tel: (866) 657-6434 and the said it will have free updates...

@Beale

I waited a long time for the Bitstream 3X controller before someone gave me a heads up on the Feena. It's built like a tank, and their support is great. You can always get hold of one of them via email. Even cool is because you order now instead of when they first came out, you'll get a unit with weighted faders. The original faders were all really loose - OK for the crossfader but not the pitch slider. Now, the pitch faders are heaviest, the up/downs weighted a tiny bit, and the crossfader is loose.

Looking at the Bitstream drawing it doesn't seem like it will be as substantial as the Feena box. It still has that toy look of the UC-33.

Check this one out too, new M-Audio X-Session Pro:

www.m-audio.com

With that and a Trigger Finger you could have some fun!

I ahve a friend that got one in a limited release from MusicMesse and it's massive with great build quality. Some very cool features, too (LOTS of MIDI modifiers). The problem with it is they have been announced for about 6 months as released, but didn't start shipping until last week.

I was going to get it because I wanted to use it's Mackie Control mode to hook into ProTools as well, but then PreSonus released the FaderPort and that shit is SWEET. So that and the discovery of the 9303 means CME lost a customer.

It IS a cool unit, though.

when i purchased FS2 & SSL, pssl & g.c. both told me that i couldn't return em (cause they were 'software'....i know, u do need tha hardware to run the software...kinda like a huge dongle)... have things changed since then?

you need the maudio box attached for the program to launch but i always get to return software at gc prob cause my buddy is the mgr

Yup.. that worx! ;)

yeah, they've let me return software, and dj needles, but that is supposed to be a big no-no. since i paid cash, they just cut me a check on the spot. LOL. GC rocks!

One thing I havne't found is instant doubles in torq.

it's there...

i just bought Torq, and im selling my SSL, PM me, im letting it go for 350 shipped.

pm sent

Skeetz are you serious?

i gotta say here...

master tempo
master tempo
master tempo
master tempo
master tempo
master tempo
master tempo
master tempo
master tempo
master tempo
master tempo
master tempo
master tempo

i know that pitch'n'time will do it, and i bet you're having a mare trying to pair the two.... you know you need to do it.

Master tempo is coming to SSL soon enough... It alone isn't enough to get me to change my mind... but ASIO drivers and midi support? That's what's getting me to consider Torq/Connectiv...

350 shipped? I was hoping to get 400 for mine when i list it on ebay.

I'm pretty sure a lot is in the works right now with SSL... Really--Is it just me or have Sam and the rest of the gang been awfully quiet for the past few weeks??? If so, I take that as a good sign that they're pretty busy.

I've been thinking the same thing....

I hope something is in the works, because I would like to upgrade from 1.4, but all other versions have not been as stable as 1.4 so far.

This is a joke right?

No Uncle, its not. I still use 1.4.

julls, you can't be serious? You're missing out on looping etc. This to me is by far one of the more stable releases so far. nothings perfect but it's 10 times better than 1.4! What are you using? A Commodore 64?

LMAO...I forgot all about that Comp...does it even still exist???? Thanks for the nostalgia.....

Dude, I'm as serious as can be. I have a Dell Latidue D600 with 512 ram. I don't need looping and all that jazz. I need stability.

I noticed a HUGE performance increase when I upgraded to 1GB of RAM. Seriously, you should look into it.

WORD !!

I'll be buying a new laptop soon. So the wife can have that one back.

Julls im on a Latitude D500 512 of ram. Try out 1.6.2 its stable. There were a few releases after 1.4 i didnt like either but the newest release hasnt given me any trouble.

Either way just rename the 1.4 executable and keep em both in case you want to go back.

^^ does 1.4 use the same database structure as 1.6.2 ?

i still use 1.4 also i have a pb with 2 gig of ram and a 7200 internal drive every other version i tried has some types of bugs. i need to have a stable platform. i play 3-4 nights a weeks sometimes i play for 4-6 hours non stop depending on the night.

so 1.4 is rock solid in my eyes

Dj Karl-R what doesn't work for you? What problems are you having with 1.6.2 that you don't have with 1.4? What isn't stable about 1.6.2 that IS stable in 1.4? curious

Could one reason for a lack in stability for newer builds be that the overviews were NEVER "rebuilt" for a newer version....?

Granted it's a time consuming process..
but that is what backups are for.. :)

uncle needle drop the issues i had are what other users are having choppy wave forms, audio glitches, audio seems more digital on certain tracks now, and a couple crashes here and there. as far as overviews i am pretty extensive i built them all not just the tracks i was gonna use. i wont play a track unless a overview is built and yes i rebuilt overviews when updating serato also. i really dont need loops either or the record feature so it doesnt bother me to use 1.4

Could anyone of the TORQ pros over here add the TORQ stuff at the SSL wiki? There is a chart which gives an overview of all Digital Vinyl Emulation Systems, and the TORQ is still missing. Thanks!

Is this becoming the TORQ forum?

"Torq is for Dorqs"

Did you come up with that all by yourself?

My bad, its already on the wiki page. Whoever added it, thanks!

torq is here to light a fire under ssl's a$$...

or torq a fire under ssl's a$$..

I really don't have alot to add after a week of use. I've done a couple 5-6 hour long sessions with it and a bunch of troubleshooting and it seems to be solid. I even had AV kick on once while it was running, and while the display froze for a few seconds, the playback was dead on.

The ReWire support is weak, but I'm glad it's there. I'm starting to think that maybe they are including it not so much for use with Live or a DAW, but to provide a method to hook into future apps that they are developing. Otherwise I would think it would be better implemented.

And the key locking issue is strange, but I think they've done it they way they did so scratching wouldn't sound as artificial as it does when traditional key locking is used while scratching. So that's not so much an issue for me. Independant key and pitch is a must for me, and I'm happy with any app that provides it.

It looks like you guys have a couple foks here that have purchased it and can give you info. Is there anything else you guys would like tested before I leave you to it?

FYI - there's a really good chance I'll be picking up Torq early next week - even though Julls has threatened to not be my friend anymore if I do.

That aside, from what's been explained, it's simliar to how I use pitch lock on my SLDZ's. I adjust the tempo to beat match with it off, and turn it on only for playback.

It's also nice to hear that it's stable for the most part. I'll take one of my large drives and build overviews for Torq and leave the other set up for SSL while I test it out. In the meantime if anyone is wanting to sell a SL1 let me know... I might have to buy one so Julls will still be my friend... ;-)

LOL. I'll trade you my SL1 for a 57. Thats a fair trade IMHO.

I'm in full agreement.

Your mom told me that one.

Ok... now Torq is on the shelf and more importantly, it's now in my coffin.... I'll post my experiences from tonight shortly in another thread.

Ok... now Torq is on the shelf and more importantly, it's now in my coffin.... I'll post my experiences from tonight shortly in another thread.

Wow a mom joke you must have come up with that yourself also.

Your doing good proving your very funny. I almost fell of my chair. Maybe you should retire the turntables and become a comedian? Hey that show Yo Mamma has some openings heres the info.

www.mtv.com

Hey Kool when you come up with something better post it. Until then learn to take a joke. Becareful on how you talk to people could get you in trouble one day.

anyone care to do a rightmark analysis of the connectiv soundcard? I'm curious about it's soundquality

Olaf

I might be able to do that... I need to make sure I have everything to pull it off though.

a single good quality stereo cinch cable connected from the ins to the outs (loopback) and the connectiv connected to your computer are enough...
rightmark can be downloaded for free from here:

audio.rightmark.org

I used Bob's generic 5' RCA cable as my loopback cable. Here are the results.

www.nem0nic.com

Wow... looks like M-Audio is repping!

But, don't you thing THD of .005 is excellent instead of very good?

Ok M-audio employee...
You are the lame who started talkin shit to me. And what. Go talk shit on the torq forums.

nice results, cheers!

Well, yeah, I would. But those results are automatically generated by the RightMark application. I just had it generate the report in HTML, then uploaded that to my webspace.

Hu thats funny I been a member of this forum before you have been and a ssl user since 1.3. But no worries. If you want shit talking dude I will just bring it to the decks. Its guys like you who are closed minded on other products that are stuck dj'n in their bedrooms till their 60. Just cause I throw a sarcastic remark about your sarcastic remark you got defensive. Are you insecure with yourself? Im the lame one also? Who made the comments of "torq is for dorqs" or "your mom told me that one" oh and can you please point out the shit talking? Or you mad cause I actually post more then one liners?

Grow up when you do let me know and we can talk.

Oh and I dont work for M-Audio im alittle proud of my job. Yup I Dj 4 Nights a week at one of Chicagos Biggest and Hottest Nightclubs, not to mention I run my own radio station along with being a Guest dj around the U.S. and Canada, oh lets not forget my exclusive remix deal with Sony. Have a Great Day!

Karl-R

wow, your cool.

Thanx I know.

why does everybody have beef on here?

because chicken is dangerous

Anyone want popcorn?

And to think I thought this thread was about Torq and Connectiv... guess I was wrong...

Sorry guys. We worked it out.
Torq Rules!

mam, step away from tha spinich (sp?)

LOL now that was funny

Okay, stop flaming.. uh... I mean... fighting.