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Pioneer built quality....

Baske 11:58 AM - 8 January, 2019
Anyone else shares the opinion that the built quality of pioneer products dont match the pricetag?
I went to a store last weekend and took a good look at all of the pioneer products displayed in the store and came to the conclusion its actualy really sad. Besides the mixers and the turntables, which imo is quality, the rest just sucks.
The platters feel too plasticy....dont spin smoothly....everything feels like it could break or damage easily. I compared the denon sc5000 with the nexus 2000 mk2. The built quality, the overall feel of the nexus 2000 felt like half of the denons but priced twice as much. Even the jogwheels of a simple numark mixtrack controller feel way better.
Why do people choose to overpay?? Is it really just so they can be part of the "pioneer is the industry standard" club? Its really a sad industry standard if you ask me.
If im gonna pay that much for gear I would expect it to be quality and not feel like u just bought toys.
Im not talking about how the products function because they probably work just fine but come on.......it feels like paying for a rolls royce while your driving around in a hyundai.
577er 4:10 PM - 8 January, 2019
Pioneer have figured out marketing. Period. They somehow built their rep with the garbage early DJM mixers despite how absolute shit they were. I still can’t figure that one out but I watched it happen. I’m convinced it was largely down to the visual design at a time when table top mixers were kinda ugly and scratch oriented and quality 19” rack mounted mixers dominated the pro instal market. Then they got the world hooked on CDJs which work and sound really good. CDJs have been the anchor of the brand ever since. Sure they are over priced but... they figured out marketing. And DJ equipment is a business not an art. So they come out on top. Also I’d bet 90% of “DJ equipment” sold since the 90s is low end starter toy like stuff and uninformed people in any market like what they see and know when it comes to brands. Your argument against pioneer is not unfounded. It just ignores the larger realties of the business world where “best” takes on funny meanings.
HK1200 5:57 PM - 8 January, 2019
The original DJM500 was shit, looking back on it now, but at the time it absolutely wow'd people. It was more feature packed than any other mixer on the market, and though the effects are laughably bad now and weren't even great back then, there really wasn't anything else that even came close at the time in that regard. The fact that it was a 4 channel in an era when simultaneous multi deck vinyl mixing was sometimes a thing didn't hurt either. Then there was the feather light fader with it's fairly immediate cut-in, which was fairly rare at the time.

From what I recall, at least in my area,, Gemini was mostly basic stuff. Stiff faders that would bleed more as they broke in, but no tech so to speak that I can recall aside from the sampler on the 676. Numark always had some seemingly cutting edge stuff but it was all marketing BS, as the products were mostly crap... could burn a fader in less than a night. Vesax pretty much had the scratch market on lock. Best faders around, pricy but good, but no onboard effects or anything really that I recall.

Aside from that it was either straight up American DJ level garbage, or a wiiiiiiiiide rack mount that usually found themselves in permanent club installs or used by open format wedding dj types (not that there's anything wrong with that) but again, effects and whatnot weren't an onboard affair that I can recall.

So to a certain degree, between their CDJ's and the DJM 500, they actually did live up to their name at the time. They were Pioneers, breaking new ground in a largely stagnant but increasingly popular market. I'd say it's paid off.

I actually got a really good deal on a djm 500 back in like 99 or 2000. Never put it in a case, gigged with it on and off for a few years, then stuck it in the home studio and used it until I finally bought an Empath. Aside from a line switch which managed to snap off once during transport it's still perfectly functional even after all of these yers
I found early on that with a little post processing to tone down the highs it could be made to sound pretty acceptable. So can the JBL Eons of the time, but that is a different (albeit similar) story.

I don't think I'd buy anything Pioneer offers today however. (Aside from an SP1, and that would mostly be just for the joystick for track selection. The fact that it is wildly overpriced for what it actually is, is the only reason I haven't bought one.)
The Return of Dj Sparky 8:43 PM - 8 January, 2019
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Pioneer have figured out marketing. Period. They somehow built their rep with the garbage early DJM mixers despite how absolute shit they were. I still can’t figure that one out but I watched it happen. I’m convinced it was largely down to the visual design at a time when table top mixers were kinda ugly and scratch oriented and quality 19” rack mounted mixers dominated the pro instal market. Then they got the world hooked on CDJs which work and sound really good. CDJs have been the anchor of the brand ever since. Sure they are over priced but... they figured out marketing. And DJ equipment is a business not an art. So they come out on top. Also I’d bet 90% of “DJ equipment” sold since the 90s is low end starter toy like stuff and uninformed people in any market like what they see and know when it comes to brands. Your argument against pioneer is not unfounded. It just ignores the larger realties of the business world where “best” takes on funny meanings.



the cut in on the djm 600 was shit i'd say about 4-5mm, it did have a curve adjust that meant it could be used for scratching compared to the djm 500 which had no curve
Itchin_4_A_Scratch 9:13 PM - 8 January, 2019
Pioneer has always been about and continues to be about their timing of products and/or features.

Just look at their new marketing angle:

By giving entry level products the layout of their Nexus products you are now prepared to go from beginner to the club booth.
The reality is you more than likely go from the beginner product to the different levels of gear they make and probably still never make it to a club.
But they do a good job of feeding your dream and their ecosystem at the same time.

It must be working because Pioneer became the big fish in the game and others seem to follow their lead.
HK1200 9:15 PM - 8 January, 2019
The cut in on the 500 was quite sharp. From closed to wide open almost immediately, and cats had no problem cutting on them. (though most scratch oriented dj's of the day would likely shun a 4 channel in favor of a 2 just about every time, it seemed.)

The biggest issue with them was there was no dip whatsoever when the xfader was centered. It would just sum the signals, sending the output voltage through the roof, which resulted in a volume boost whenever the crossfader was centered. You had to be on point with your levels, and we know how that shit goes with a lot of "artists".

Also, the main gain knob on the back was great if you knew how to use it. Problem was, most didn't. That thing had the potential to send out a wickedly hot signal when abused, and likely resulted in distorting the crap out of a lot of house systems not seup for such high input voltages.
dj_soo 11:25 PM - 8 January, 2019
It’s all marketing hype.

Their gear is functional and reasonably well built - but not to the extent that they should be charging what they charge.

But pioneer knows they could sap their logo on a literal piece of shit and the fanboys would pay a premium for it - and then go all over the internet and to their friends telling everyone that they have to buy pioneer gear if they want to dj because it’s an “industry standard.”

I do agree, pioneer is essentially based on selling a dream. The majority of beginners getting into it wanting to be the next avicii or Martin garrix or whatever big edm dj and 90% of those guys use the nxs2 setup.
Mr. Goodkat 1:38 AM - 9 January, 2019
pioneer just had the right products with the right design at the right time. and still do but now they are just a club standard, a format standard(usbs/rekordbox), and a way to dj without a computer (computers are expensive)
577er 2:40 AM - 9 January, 2019
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pioneer just had the right products with the right design at the right time. and still do but now they are just a club standard, a format standard(usbs/rekordbox), and a way to dj without a computer (computers are expensive)


If they made a thumb drive DDJ-1000 form factor controller I'd forgive them for all those years of having to listen DJM shit mixers.
Mr. Goodkat 4:37 AM - 9 January, 2019
i hate the sound of pioneer mixers, the 600 is my all time most hated. not really impressed with the 900 srt and serato pro either. the s9 isnt that bad though, and i still havent played a proper gig on a 900 nxs2

I wish someone would frankenstein a pioneer gui with rane guts. not that i love the layout of pioneer that much, but i have to use them all the time and i wouldnt have to deal with all that midrange
dj_soo 4:55 AM - 9 January, 2019
Nxs2 sounds good actually. Not as good as Rane or Denon imo, but way better than the 900nxs or SRT. It's better than the S9, and the the S9 sound better than the old 900nxs.

There's a lot of midrange, a lot of highs, and not many lows in most pioneer gear. That bump tends to sound good on initial listening, but man does it fatigue shortly. I hate that they have essentially proven that most people don't give a shit about sound quality.
dj_soo 4:56 AM - 9 January, 2019
and yea, the 600 was garbage. I hated playing on that thing.
Gio Alex 10:27 PM - 9 January, 2019
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and yea, the 600 was garbage. I hated playing on that thing.


Analog heads tend to like the 600 tho since it was the last of it's kind. I used to have one, wasn't my fave or close to best but came in handy with gigs we had with more than 1-2 djs. I did like the little same feature. HATED the recessed ins/outs though.
hypermow 11:06 PM - 9 January, 2019
Put it this way I would not want to own any pioneer product without a warranty in place that covered a loaner when it was on repair. I'm in canada so Long and mcquade stores are great for this. When my DDJ SX went down it was 94 days for what was called a priority repair through them direct to pioneer. Left jog dial went down and whole left PCB was replaced. Less than 25 gigs later and its going flakey on the right side now

I am hesitating to upgrade to a v3 but the next repair might trigger a lemon clause.
The Return of Dj Sparky 11:07 PM - 9 January, 2019
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Put it this way I would not want to own any pioneer product without a warranty in place that covered a loaner when it was on repair. I'm in canada so Long and mcquade stores are great for this. When my DDJ SX went down it was 94 days for what was called a priority repair through them direct to pioneer. Left jog dial went down and whole left PCB was replaced. Less than 25 gigs later and its going flakey on the right side now

I am hesitating to upgrade to a v3 but the next repair might trigger a lemon clause.


so enlighten us as to your brand of choice that offers a replacement while it's in for repair
dj_soo 12:01 AM - 10 January, 2019
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and yea, the 600 was garbage. I hated playing on that thing.


Analog heads tend to like the 600 tho since it was the last of it's kind. I used to have one, wasn't my fave or close to best but came in handy with gigs we had with more than 1-2 djs. I did like the little same feature. HATED the recessed ins/outs though.


Most of the analog heads I know preferred the xone 92 or even the old xone 62.
dj_soo 12:03 AM - 10 January, 2019
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Put it this way I would not want to own any pioneer product without a warranty in place that covered a loaner when it was on repair. I'm in canada so Long and mcquade stores are great for this. When my DDJ SX went down it was 94 days for what was called a priority repair through them direct to pioneer. Left jog dial went down and whole left PCB was replaced. Less than 25 gigs later and its going flakey on the right side now

I am hesitating to upgrade to a v3 but the next repair might trigger a lemon clause.


so enlighten us as to your brand of choice that offers a replacement while it's in for repair


Sounds more like it’s dependent on the store you buy from.

Long n McQuade in Canada do tons of business in rentals so it’s easy for them to hand off a loaner if the customer brings their gear in for repairs.
Gio Alex 12:04 AM - 10 January, 2019
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and yea, the 600 was garbage. I hated playing on that thing.


Analog heads tend to like the 600 tho since it was the last of it's kind. I used to have one, wasn't my fave or close to best but came in handy with gigs we had with more than 1-2 djs. I did like the little same feature. HATED the recessed ins/outs though.


Most of the analog heads I know preferred the xone 92 or even the old xone 62.


Now you know that ain’t fair lol, A&E that’s a WHOLE different class. All in meant is in the pioneer range I’ve seen people lean towards the 600. If we talking different brands then we could come up with a list of waaaaaay better mixers than the pio 600.
dj_soo 12:12 AM - 10 January, 2019
I liked the 800 more than the 600. At least you could get a decent crossfader cut (not great but better), and you got post fader effects on that.

Still hate those things in general tho.
Gio Alex 12:14 AM - 10 January, 2019
I can’t say I’m a fan either of those particular mixers. Wasn’t my style. Hate the cueing amongst other things. But I believe they went digital by then. Not that this matters to us.
HK1200 1:46 AM - 10 January, 2019
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and yea, the 600 was garbage. I hated playing on that thing.


Analog heads tend to like the 600 tho since it was the last of it's kind. I used to have one, wasn't my fave or close to best but came in handy with gigs we had with more than 1-2 djs. I did like the little same feature. HATED the recessed ins/outs though.


Most of the analog heads I know preferred the xone 92 or even the old xone 62.


I like A&H mixers, but I can't recall ever seeing one out in the wild back in the djm 5/600's heyday. I didn't think they really starting gaining traction with North American DJ's until well post y2k, or at least the folks who invested in them weren't dragging them to the types of places I was going at the time, lol.
dj_soo 1:49 AM - 10 January, 2019
Yea, I’m talking early 2000s. You’d see the 62 in some spots, but even then, you could find any given mixer in a club - id seen vestax, Rane (the big wide rotary and the 56), pioneer, and any other number of mixers in different clubs and venues. Certainly not like today where 80% of the time it’s pioneer.
Gio Alex 4:46 PM - 10 January, 2019
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I like A&H mixers, but I can't recall ever seeing one out in the wild back in the djm 5/600's heyday


Definitely never seen one in any pot i've ever spun at. Could be because i'm in US, who knows.

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Yea, I’m talking early 2000s. You’d see the 62 in some spots, but even then, you could find any given mixer in a club - id seen vestax, Rane (the big wide rotary and the 56), pioneer, and any other number of mixers in different clubs and venues. Certainly not like today where 80% of the time it’s pioneer.


funny i've seen plenty 3 channel vestax and the big rane rotary joints back in the day at clubs. I remember the first time I had to use a rotary and playing hip hop. what a nightmare lol
HK1200 5:01 PM - 10 January, 2019
For sure! Back then, if you were spinning at a venue with an actual dj booth installed and you had never been there before it was anyones guess what you might find, especially if the place had been around for a while. Might be a Rane, maybe a Vestax, but it seemed like there were LOTS of old as dirt Numarks installed... probably still around from the 80's, lol. Getting some club owners to invest in equipment has always been one of those kinds of challenges I guess.
Gio Alex 5:17 PM - 10 January, 2019
Yo speaking, i once walked into spot that had a belt drive turntable. That was a rough night.
HK1200 5:33 PM - 10 January, 2019
Brutal. Folks in charge either had no clue, or just didn't care.

On the bright side at least you knew you were screwed right off the rip. Some of the club owned 1200's weren't much better to be honest, after getting absolutely abused for as long as some of them did. Bad tonearm bushings always made cueing and scratching fun, especially if your vinyl was anything less than perfectly flat. Pitch controls with about as much resistance as a modern crossfader, and god help you if you ended up anywhere near 0.... And who can forget the power knobs which were so worn that simply grazing them with your arm or hand would kill power to the table?

Fun times, lol.

All that said, even the worst of them could be brought back to like new condition with a little effort. One of the many things that makes them great to me.
Culprit 6:54 PM - 11 January, 2019
If a legit club/bar making 200k a month bought one new setup per year (two new turntables and 1 new mixer) it would be less than 1% in expenses and is a tax write off per year.

Either the communication is not there or the owner doesn't care.
Mr. Goodkat 8:14 PM - 11 January, 2019
not too many club/bars making 200k a month. even if you are, you dont make 200k from 200k. after expenses you might make at best 30% of that. which is what the owners use to live and profit from. in Texas off the top ever drink is taxed 14%, meaning you make 86c for every 1 dollar spent.

via internet
'Bar cost is typically 18 to 25% of sales. So net profit is roughly 80% before other expenses. Once you include labor and overhead it's slightly better than food cost. Total profit, on average is 10% or less of gross sales.'
Itchin_4_A_Scratch 10:57 PM - 11 January, 2019
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not too many club/bars making 200k a month. even if you are, you dont make 200k from 200k. after expenses you might make at best 30% of that. which is what the owners use to live and profit from. in Texas off the top ever drink is taxed 14%, meaning you make 86c for every 1 dollar spent.

via internet
'Bar cost is typically 18 to 25% of sales. So net profit is roughly 80% before other expenses. Once you include labor and overhead it's slightly better than food cost. Total profit, on average is 10% or less of gross sales.'

Which is why so many clubs fail they only understand money in the door not money out the door.

Funny part to me always is the people with the least understanding of business are the ones who are in business or trying to be a business.
dj_soo 11:35 PM - 11 January, 2019
because very few knowledgeable businessmen are going to go into the club business. It's a high risk, high upfront capital, and low reward business. Unless you're in one of the few major international clubbing cities, owning a club requires a ton of money up front and a lot of patience to even break even.

Most guys who buy a club are some rich kids who think it would be cool to be a club owner or in some cases, it's a money laundering front for organized crime.
577er 2:31 AM - 12 January, 2019
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because very few knowledgeable businessmen are going to go into the club business. It's a high risk, high upfront capital, and low reward business. Unless you're in one of the few major international clubbing cities, owning a club requires a ton of money up front and a lot of patience to even break even.

Most guys who buy a club are some rich kids who think it would be cool to be a club owner or in some cases, it's a money laundering front for organized crime.


🤫 don’t shit where you eat
dj_soo 3:14 AM - 12 January, 2019
I gave up the club scene years ago.
HighTopFade 3:56 AM - 12 January, 2019
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Anyone else shares the opinion that the built quality of pioneer products dont match the pricetag?


I'm pretty happy with the PLX1000 and the S9. Quality to cost is fair in my opinion. Never a real Pioneer fan (Rane Technics fanboy), but got this setup thinking it was going to be the industry standard.
Culprit 11:27 PM - 12 January, 2019
Mr. Goodkat, i stated if and that expense is not taken from take home pay if. Not here to argue a point with you. Why would you pay from a setup from your profit margin?
Culprit 11:30 PM - 12 January, 2019
i should of added more to my comment. "not too many club/bars making 200k a month. even if you are, you dont make 200k from 200k. after expenses you might make at best 30% of that. which is what the owners use to live and profit from. " that would include the setup in expenses? i am kinda understanding this comment at all. I was not referring to take home pay whatsoever.
Culprit 11:30 PM - 12 January, 2019
sorry, my fingers aren't working to well right now, battling a cold.
Mr. Goodkat 11:38 PM - 12 January, 2019
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Mr. Goodkat, i stated if and that expense is not taken from take home pay if. Not here to argue a point with you. Why would you pay from a setup from your profit margin?


im just saying

a most bars, actually very few do 200k a month, maybe 1% probably less

b 200k a month net does not translate to a bar making 200k
Culprit 11:41 PM - 12 January, 2019
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Mr. Goodkat, i stated if and that expense is not taken from take home pay if. Not here to argue a point with you. Why would you pay from a setup from your profit margin?


im just saying

a most bars, actually very few do 200k a month, maybe 1% probably less

b 200k a month net does not translate to a bar making 200k


Yes, i understand. The majority of bars I work with are hitting between 150k and 300k, but I am in southern california. I know the climate in different states are drastically different.

A friend of mine owns a really small bar, about 200 capacity, and shows me the numbers and they do about 1.8-2.2 million per year. Monthly varies drastically but the year end numbers were pretty accurate.
Culprit 11:45 PM - 12 January, 2019
also, yes your right I was definitely not talking net, i was talking total gross sales. Not net profit.
Mr. Goodkat 11:51 PM - 12 January, 2019
must be bottle service places?
Mr. Goodkat 11:55 PM - 12 January, 2019
how many days a week are they open?
Chino 12:30 AM - 13 January, 2019
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Yes, i understand. The majority of bars I work with are hitting between 150k and 300k, but I am in southern california. I know the climate in different states are drastically different.

A friend of mine owns a really small bar, about 200 capacity, and shows me the numbers and they do about 1.8-2.2 million per year. Monthly varies drastically but the year end numbers were pretty accurate.


I'm in the wrong climate, and state, lol. If the clubs & bars where doing those kinda #s where I live then I probably would still be DJing clubs & bars.
Gio Alex 1:17 AM - 13 January, 2019
Small bar is 200 capacity?
Culprit 4:33 AM - 14 January, 2019
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Small bar is 200 capacity?


I will double check the numbers there but I remember it was close to 200

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I'm in the wrong climate, and state, lol. If the clubs & bars where doing those kinda #s where I live then I probably would still be DJing clubs & bars.


Maybe its just southern california?

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how many days a week are they open?


3 Days a week at most

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must be bottle service places?


this place does do bottle service yes, but it's not that common. More common in other areas.
DJ Nexus2000 2:32 PM - 22 February, 2019
I’ve been using pioneer products for 6 years and I have never had an issue. I spin on Both the 2000 Nxs system and a DDJ 1000. I use RKB DJ because SDJ Version 1 was unstable and not ready for prime time. So yes, I would pay more for stability with the pioneer eco system then pay less for unstable equipment.