DJing Discussion

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Serato controller

daydreamer 10:19 AM - 15 August, 2018
Hey guys ,

My first post here.
I currently have a older hercules RMX 2 and would like to buy a decent 4-channel controller.
The problem i have is looking for the best controller for +/- 1000 € and reading about them al of them seem to have issues .

My first chioce would be the denon MC7000 , are there realy so many problems with the built quality (e.g. buttons break down) ?

Then i thought the roland 808 will be a great solution but then i read about the decks stop playing and there is stil no solution?

Ok , maybe Pioneer then , bad sound quality compared with the Roland and the denon in this price range.

I'm having a hard time to decide and i think it's weird that there seem to be so many problems with DJ controllers . My RMX 2 is verry basic but in all the years i used it to play around i never had broken buttons , knobs and even minor problems with freezing.


Can anyone who's realy having those controllers help me to decide ?
17tr2 12:03 PM - 15 August, 2018
"Ok , maybe Pioneer then , bad sound quality compared with the Roland and the denon in this price range."

People who make that claim don't know how to set their gear up. I've read many of the sound quality complaints, and its clear that the people who have issues, usually don't know what they are doing. You will always hear more complaints about Pioneer because so many people have their products. For every 10 units Pioneer sells, Denon maybe sells one. Less for Roland.

Also, if you go with Pioneer, it will automatically work with Recordbox. That way, when you are trying to fix Serato, you can still DJ.
Logisticalstyles 12:37 PM - 15 August, 2018
Quote:
Also, if you go with Pioneer, it will automatically work with Recordbox. That way, when you are trying to fix Serato, you can still DJ.


Not every Pioneer controller will work with Rekordbox. The SR2 doesn't for example.
17tr2 1:03 PM - 15 August, 2018
I thought they all did. On my SX2, it just works without having to map anything.
Aptidda 3:40 PM - 15 August, 2018
"Issues" are in controllers nature.

Modular or nothing.
17tr2 5:34 PM - 15 August, 2018
Quote:
"Issues" are in controllers nature.

Modular or nothing.


What do you think your 72 is? When you use it to control Serato, its a controller. Its a dual purpose device that can be used as a stand alone mixer as well. Too bad its only 2 channels. If it had 4, I would have already bought one.
Aptidda 6:15 PM - 15 August, 2018
Quote:
Quote:
"Issues" are in controllers nature.

Modular or nothing.


What do you think your 72 is? When you use it to control Serato, its a controller. Its a dual purpose device that can be used as a stand alone mixer as well. Too bad its only 2 channels. If it had 4, I would have already bought one.


No, you are misunderstanding.
Logisticalstyles 6:33 PM - 15 August, 2018
Quote:
What do you think your 72 is?


Exactly. The 72 and especially the Twelve's are just controllers. At least the 72 can switch it up and work like a stand alone mixer if you decide to play regular vinyl or CDs, but once you connect it to your computer you are in the world of controllers.
17tr2 6:37 PM - 15 August, 2018
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
"Issues" are in controllers nature.

Modular or nothing.


What do you think your 72 is? When you use it to control Serato, its a controller. Its a dual purpose device that can be used as a stand alone mixer as well. Too bad its only 2 channels. If it had 4, I would have already bought one.


No, you are misunderstanding.


I don't think so, but I'm willing to listen. Explain it to me.
Aptidda 6:42 PM - 15 August, 2018
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
"Issues" are in controllers nature.

Modular or nothing.


What do you think your 72 is? When you use it to control Serato, its a controller. Its a dual purpose device that can be used as a stand alone mixer as well. Too bad its only 2 channels. If it had 4, I would have already bought one.


No, you are misunderstanding.


I don't think so, but I'm willing to listen. Explain it to me.


No one is going to SPECIFICALLY use the 72 AS A STANDALONE CONTROLLER. Lets be real, its more of a convenience thing.

And if we are honestly going to lump it in with "Controllers", guess its the absolute best "Controller" out there right now.
17tr2 9:21 PM - 15 August, 2018
"No one is going to SPECIFICALLY use the 72 AS A STANDALONE CONTROLLER. Lets be real, its more of a convenience thing."

If it was a matter of convenience, it would have jog wheels. Either way, its still a controller when you use it to control Serato. It has to be.

"And if we are honestly going to lump it in with "Controllers", guess its the absolute best "Controller" out there right now."

It may very well be. Like I said before, if they made a 4 channel version, I would already have one. If I only needed 2 channels, I would already have one. As for me saying I had a 72 and threw it into a garbage dumpster, hit a homeless man in the head, and he threw it right back out because he already had the S9 that you threw in there, well, I may have been exaggerating. I asked the homeless guy if he wanted to trade me the S9. He said no. So there, you got me.
Clubber1970 12:49 PM - 16 August, 2018
I think the difference between a real mixer and a controller is that a mixer is in external mode and a controller in internal mode. That means the mixer doing the full mixing job while a controller just controls the audio engine of Serato. On top a lot of mixers like the 72 sending Midi signals to Serato to toggle cue points, enabling loops, etc.
It is clear that the modern high end mixers like the 72 doing a way better job with handling the audio signals internally.
That’s the reason mixers sound better than the controllers.
17tr2 3:17 PM - 16 August, 2018
"That means the mixer doing the full mixing job while a controller just controls the audio engine of Serato. On top a lot of mixers like the 72 sending Midi signals to Serato to toggle cue points, enabling loops, etc."

That's simply not true. If you are using Serato, then you are using Serato. The 72 is a controller and a mixer in one box. The only way you can use it as a mixer, and not as a controller, is to not use Serato. That's why when you are using the 72, you can reach over to your laptop and use the mouse and keyboard to control the same functions as you have on the mixer. If the 72 took control over the mixing functions that couldn't work. That's also why Rane calls the 72 control and performance mixer.

"It is clear that the modern high end mixers like the 72 doing a way better job with handling the audio signals internally.
That’s the reason mixers sound better than the controllers."

That's not true either. When using the 72 as a controller, it has to deal with the same issues that every other controller has to deal with. You are confusing your comment because its usually made in the context of comparing a system consisting of 2 cdj's and an analog mixer, to a controller with similar functions, like an SZ. All other factors being equal, plugging 2 cdj's, or similar source, into the analog inputs of the 72, has the potential to sound better than using the 72 as a Serato controller. That's where your comment originates from.
Clubber1970 3:26 PM - 16 August, 2018
Well my mixer don‘t send any midi signals over USB when I use the EQ section or faders. That is what I mean by external mixing mode.
And I hade different controllers for Serato.
My mixer sounds much better.
But I don‘t want to demonize Controllers. Everyone as to decide which product is better for his/her environment.
17tr2 7:37 PM - 16 August, 2018
"But I don‘t want to demonize Controllers. Everyone as to decide which product is better for his/her environment."

No one is saying you are. Its just that programs like Serato only work with controllers. There is no other option. Mouse, keyboard, SX or 72. It doesn't matter. They all do the exact same thing. I only go on because I see a lot of complaints about things like sound quality. In most cases, the problem is just a matter of setup, and not the controller. I can take my SX2 and get really poor sound quality, make a few adjustments, and it will sound just fine.

"Well my mixer don‘t send any midi signals over USB when I use the EQ section or faders. That is what I mean by external mixing mode."

Here's how you can tell what is doing what, and I'll use the 72 as an example. If whatever function you are controlling with a mixer/controller can also be done with a mouse and keyboard, then you are using a controller. So, for example, if you are sliding a fader on the mixer and you see it moving on the computer screen in Serato, and can also move the same adjustment with the mouse, you are using a controller. Now, lets say you are moving the EQ knobs on the mixer. If nothing is happening on your screen, and everything in Serato stays the same, the signal is going from the controller portion to the mixer portion of the 72. At that point, Serato has nothing to do with it. Its no different than taking a standard controller and plugging it into an external EQ or mixer. It just gets confusing because a product like the 72 is really 2 separate components in 1 box. And the way it gets marketed doesn't make that fact clear.
Clubber1970 11:17 PM - 16 August, 2018
Yes of course nearly every newer mixer with an integrated soundcard and is Serato compatible has a controller function (sending midi signals to the computer) and has a audio mixer function.
But I only want to say that there is a difference in the audio handling.
When you switch one channel on your SX to PC mode in the frontpanel section you just „controlling“ the software where the mixing is done while in the mixer the audio signals are handled by the mixer hardware itself.
That’s the only thing I want to say.
And the audio handling inside newer mixers are better then inside the Serato engine.
That is my experience I‘ve made.
17tr2 2:39 PM - 17 August, 2018
"But I only want to say that there is a difference in the audio handling."

To be honest, I really don't follow you on that. Last night after I read your post, I went looked at some detailed info on the 72 and S9 just to see if I was missing something. Its pretty clear that audio is handled the same way any other controller handles audio up to the dac. To be honest, there's no other way it can be done. Once the controller hands the signal off to the mixer, Serato is out of the picture.

"When you switch one channel on your SX to PC mode in the frontpanel section you just „controlling“ the software where the mixing is done while in the mixer the audio signals are handled by the mixer hardware itself."

That's not how it works. When I have any of the inputs set to PC, that channel is completely controlled by Serato. When I move the switch to mic or line input, it disables that channel in Serato and switches it to an analog input.

Either way, all this can be confusing. But if you follow the signal path, it should all make sense.
daydreamer 4:25 PM - 17 August, 2018
So if i understand this right , if i buy a controller i can experience Always some "issues" as it depends on the computer and it's software . The bugs in the firmware of the controller will be solved in time by the manufacturer i hope.


If i wand some thing issue free i need to buy a seperate mixer and decks. But that is way over my budget.

I didn't get the answers i'm searching for , did anyone experience problems (build quality) with the Denon mc7000 ?

I've been reading some more reviews and for the moment i added 2 pioneer systems to my list.


- standalone pioneer XDJ RX-2 wich can bu used as controller with recordbox if i want to

- Pioneer DDJ-1000


They both seem to have good comment's ( i realise they are both different systems.)


What would be a good choice for a home DJ who's sometimes doing a gig for friends but i don't wan't any problems with the controller doing this.


I als wan't to use it for many years , so the build qiality need to be great
17tr2 5:07 PM - 17 August, 2018
"I didn't get the answers i'm searching for , did anyone experience problems (build quality) with the Denon mc7000 ?"

You probably won't get too many responses on that because not that many people have those. I'm sure its a good controller, its just not as popular as something like a Pioneer unit.

"- standalone pioneer XDJ RX-2 wich can bu used as controller with recordbox if i want to

- Pioneer DDJ-1000"

Both are very good. The only drawback is that you are limited to Rekordbox for software. I bought the SX2 over the RX2 because its a Serato controller. Rekordbox is fully compatible with it, so I have both.

"What would be a good choice for a home DJ who's sometimes doing a gig for friends but i don't wan't any problems with the controller doing this."

If you want to use software, you need to use a controller. Call it whatever you wish, but in the end, its still a controller. If you want something trouble free, Numark makes their version of CDJ's for $250 each and a matching mixer for $150. If you're on a budget and don't want any software issues, you can start with that. The CD players are also Serato enabled, so if you want to get into software later on, you already have some equipment that you'll need.
Aptidda 6:20 PM - 17 August, 2018
Denon MC7000 = Crap
XDJ RX-2 = Trash
DDJ-1000 = POS
Numark CDJ’s = Absolute garbage

Don’t listen to any of these peons that recommend a Controller.

Get a used Rane 56 and a used Numark V7. You will be MUCH happier in the long run and have to deal with ZERO issues.
17tr2 8:02 PM - 17 August, 2018
I bet you didn't know that your Rane 72 is a controller for Serato.
Aptidda 10:58 PM - 17 August, 2018
Quote:
I bet you didn't know that your Rane 72 is a controller for Serato.


I bet I did, I use that feature all the time. I would recommend the 72 but this guy was mentioning Sub $1000 controllers. Kinda hard to say spend 2 g's on a 72 when your looking for a POS controller.
Clubber1970 7:35 AM - 18 August, 2018
Well, my A&H DB2 is not a controller when I use Serato. My DDJ SP1 is a controller.
Clubber1970 7:40 AM - 18 August, 2018
I think the MC7000 and the DDJ 1000 are both good.
It depends what Software you prefer, Serato or RB.
RR437T 1:01 PM - 18 August, 2018
Quote:
Well, my A&H DB2 is not a controller when I use Serato. My DDJ SP1 is a controller.


That's not true. The SP-1 is an add on controller. It can't be used by itself to unlock and control Serato. You need a primary controller first, to unlock Serato. Since your DB2 isn't licensed to be used as a Serato enabled controller, you need to have Club Kit/Essentials. The DB2 is only a Serato ready device.

So, in your situation, your Club Kit enabled DB2 mixer is your primary Serato controller, and your SP1 is an add on controller. The key thing to remember is that Serato can't be used without an enabled controller. No expectations. If you require verification, just give Allen and Heath a call and they'll tell you the exact same thing.
Clubber1970 5:08 PM - 18 August, 2018
I surrender. I give up. I don‘t want to argue any more.

Meanwhile I use my DB2 as a mixer in external mode with Rekordbox DJ performance mode 🤪
RR437T 6:40 PM - 18 August, 2018
Quote:
I surrender. I give up. I don‘t want to argue any more.

Meanwhile I use my DB2 as a mixer in external mode with Rekordbox DJ performance mode 🤪


Sorry, but I had no idea we were arguing. It seemed like a few people were following this discussion, so I just wanted make sure everything was factually correct. Although, I will admit its always fun to see Aptidda's comments when a discussion doesn't go exactly as he wants it to. Did I forget to mention the Rane 72 is a controller for Serato?
Clubber1970 6:45 PM - 18 August, 2018
Oh, just ignore him.