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Did Rane hurt their sales by not having the Twelve already out there for purchase? This Phase thing kinda just blew the Twelve off my radar. Other than cue points and needle search what else does the Twelve have to offer?

kinda blew my mind

the fb vid at 13:00 would be a pretty cool dmc/redbull trick

Man. This looks nice. I'd even consider coping as a backup plan for when needles and RCAs shit the bed mid gig. Especially for $200 a set

#1 we don't even KNOW what DVSs Phase will work with, hold your damn horses.

djworx.com

"Also, Phase is compatible with any DJ software using DVS technology such as Serato, Traktor or Rekordbox. "

Nice, damn so much info spread across 10 diff sites right now.

For those that haven't read up on it - Phase doesn't access the software in any way - it simply transmits a timecode signal via the little sticks to the box/charger/receiver which then plugs into your mixer via RCA cables.

The sticks have some kind of accelerometer technology to detect the position and speed of the vinyl and sends that info to the receiver which decodes it as a timecode signal which then gets sent to either your serato mixer or serato box.

It is essentially a wireless timecode generator.

So the receiver has the tone info? How do they get away with that, I wonder. Unless they have it so you provide the tone in some way by uploading it to the box? Or did they license that part?

They aren't using the official tone. In the techtools livestream, they pan to the serato screen for a bit and the bars are all red and the tone scopes aren't the serato scopes.

It's the same thing with the Denon SC3700/SC3900 which generates the tone internally. It's not the exact Serato Noisemap tone but rather their own compatible tone that functions perfectly even if the bars display as all red.

I've been using the SC3900s with serato for the last year and a half and there's is zero issues with tracking and performance. The only thing I've noticed is a bit of sticker drift, but I don't know how much of that is the tone and how much of that is the locking spindle technology used for the 3900s.

Cool, if it works, it works!

yeah, thats what sold me on it, they were using SDJ, so i assumed if it worked with that, it would work with pretty much any of them

think about all the possibilities with turntables with broke tone arms. Take out tone arm, insert drink holder :D

Make your own Twelve!

I seriously think I will cancel my Rane pre-order.

I still think the twelve will be a superior experience just due to greater accuracy and software integration with hid and no potential interference or latency with the wireless signal. But is it going to be $1200 worth of better experience? Who knows? I kind of want both at this point although I will definitely be getting the phase before the Twelves.

I wonder if it will be SDJ only? I'm guessing not, although I have to switch sometime.

It's not.

Likely come loaded with traktor and possibly rekordbox timecode signals as well with the potential to add more via firmware.

Granted it's more of a reverse engineered, "bootlegged" signal similar to the tines generated on the denon sc3700 and 3900s.

Talking to soon and doing too late... yeah someone will learn from the TwelveTanic ! ><

Yeah, just get any super oem with broken tonearm that costs peanuts and there you have it. Ok, no needle drop but we can survive that I think.

That's what happens when their is so much time between announcing and launching a product. Rane.



Watch out for pioneers take on this idea...PLX750 wireless DVS turntables

Great product but it feels like I'd be carrying around another Serato SL box and the profile on the transceiver is high. I might hit it and mess up the signal when doing doubles? Still very cool. I'm going try it out this weekend.

I use that center part of the record to nudge sometimes...might have to unlearn that habit.

Naw... the designers need to design AROUND that; make this unit lower profile, circular, and out of the way for your types and others who backspin via the label area.

They could, but realistically you still have the entire non-label-covered part of the record to handle with no worry of smoking the tone arm. An extension to the spindle, for the nipple twisters, might be a thoughtful addition though.

Someone brought up how it may have some adverse reaction to vibrations since it's a motion sensor - hopefully they considered that and it won't be affected by low end rumble.

If the platter is normally affected, they sensor likely won’t be

Looking forward to some creative videos where people DJ with a bicycle wheel and a Drill.

^^^ after seeing some of them scratching while holding it up, you know it's coming.

I'm just gonna add one to the propellor on the top of my hat and stand in the middle of the dance floor!

Wonder how much it will cost?

Anybody seen pricing?

I was seeing 250-300UKP thrown around, so usually that's marketed as the same in USD (poor UKers always get the short straw with VAT).

Interesting device, but not for me as you can't needle drop.

I think it's perfect as a backup solution should the tonearm/needles kick the bucket.

It's basically the evolution of this tascam.com (which I thought was amazing at the time)

Yup, first thing I thought of was that tascam wheel (which I also passed on)

I think if you make a pro/con list verse techs+dvs it falls a little short and has some deal breakers for some djs.

And aside from price it can't compete with the Rane 12 pro/con.

Dope product tho, just like the tascam

The major pro is : you don't need to replace your hardware, upgrade it !

So that's price, but doesn't beat techs+dvs as a pro.

Don't replace the Tech with a Twelve, upgrade it with phase.

I tested the unit and it was pretty solid, and people who were questioning the signals capability to differentiate between alternate frequencies should of realized we we're in Hall's full of equipment taking up massive amounts of frequency space.

I also tested out the Twelve and I felt a better response on the Twelve vs the Phase, but not by much.

I think the concept is awesome but having to carry around the chargers, unhook turntables, hook up the system to the mixers won't be as easy as swapping needles in a club.

In an install environment the twelve is the way to go. If you want to to upgrade existing equipment if your on a budget then phase is the way to go.

I sometimes do outdoor (windy or even sunny) events and occasionally dj on a boat - the Phase is a perfect safety net for that

NO BOUNCING NEEDLES OR TONEARM FTW!!!

good point, djing w tts on boats is a nitemare

This should be Phase's new marketing slogan!

Ok guys you can also forget Phase with this:

www.instagram.com


JesseDeanDesigns tone arm for the Rane 12 !!!


Analog + Digital VS Digital + Analog
Turntablism is really a special market 😂😂😂

I don't care what anyone says, the TWEVLES and Phase are cool and there's not reason to shit on either market.

I agree each has it's purpose.

I'm gonna ask a question here, and I'd like to preface this by asking that everyone not go nuts lol - but are you guys really having that many issues with needles and tonearms? And I'm not talking about doing an outside windy event.

I pretty much never have needle/cart, tonearm issues. Keep my needles clean, have back ups and by new styli when the time comes. Clean the tonearm contacts too. Are you guys djing in caves and dungeons?

I like this idea of it being a backup. But I would much rather have a dedicated deck like twelve or v7 (not that i want them) than to spin with tonearms in rest with needles attached. Something just doesn't seem right about that at all.

Not my own tables, but club and festival provided decks, I've had tons of problems with bad tonr arm contacts, RCA's and bass feedback from massive stacks subs.

Not really. But 'some' issues, more than 'none'.

If an issue, or potential issue can be eliminated (without creating more) why not?

Not me, not really. I think its the innovation that's appealing. I mean, there are some turntables out there that will get new life depending on the condition of the tonearm. That's a major positive you know. I think also the technology is what's appealing. I mean you can basically come out with a Bluetooth turntable which requires only a receiver.

Your getting rid of those needles, one less thing to worry about in a setup. Its the reliability of a CDJ with the performance of a Vinyl, best of both worlds. Wireless Vinyl Tracking.

But does it create more issues?

Of course it does. Wireless will always add another form of troubleshooting.

in all the videos you can see the receiver is like right on top of the mixer, so yeah there is definitely some issues going on.

I have one spot where no matter what i do i have to lick the cart for it to connect. Ive cleaned the tonearm with an eraser, rubbed a qtip with cleaning spray, nada, have to lick every time.

Another spot the tonearms are not tight and any kind of scratching or juggling is sketchy at best.

Some places when i get there to setup, they pull the turntables out of storage, who knows how its kept back there. From the looks of them im guessing upside down resting on the tonearm in a puddle of beer.

This would give me peace of mind that no matter what the condition, im ok. Doubt i would use it too much but just knowing its in the bag would make new spots less nerve racking.

The question i keep asking is will these things pull more people away from CDJs? Hope so. Hate those things.

Unless the price of the Twelve comes down drastically I see people opting for the Phase more often than not.

I tour to a lot of smaller towns where the tables are sourced from whomever the promoter knows in town (or their own decks). I once did a gig where one of our set of decks was pulled out of a shed and looked like they hadn't been moved in over a year. Because our touring act requires 4 decks, the likelihood of getting problematic tables seems to go up.

Exactly, thats why I'm getting a TWELVE.

haha


i'd say one more problems is just having proper setups for bass and people dancing.

One place i play has just basically a plywood carpeted table with the decks sitting directly on them. one deck is closer to the monitor and it picks up heavy bass.

some friends always play with vinyl and it seems everytime i go to one of their gigs(usually at smaller bars/lounges) they are near a dance floor and their tables are always skipping from people dancing.

If MWare Mixars incorperates this Phase reader into a new mixer and pulling the main features off the & 72 and S9 they will completely kill the competition period!

I was playing with the mixars quattro and besides the dull look its a pretty decent mixer.

rumors are that mixars is done with RCF and may be done as a company

RCF and DB Technologies = Mixars right?

So foreal would you leave the tonearm in the rest or no?

db tech is a subsidiary to RCF and mixars is a company under db tech.

The rumors is that RCF is pulling out of the DJ game and cutitng Mixars loose. Someone else could pick them up, but I'm not sure who that would be. InMusic seems like they have all their bases covered and don't need another sub brand competing with itself unless they want to have yet another brand to cover entry level and midrange mixers (does Numark even still make DJ mixers?) so I can't see them picking up Mixars. Maybe MUSIC group or ? All they have is behringer in the DJ realm and that's definitely more in the entry level end of gear.

Stanton has been pretty quiet too, but I doubt they would be interested considering how irrelevant they are to the DJ world these days outside of the refreshed 150 turntables.

Or maybe it's just rumors and I'll finally be able to get my hands on the Mixars Primo that I've wanted for the last year...

I had so many issues with turntables back then...

- wooden booth with subwoofers underneath
- collecting dust all night on the stylus
- guest dj setting his warlord weight and height adjustement
- cdj guys bumping the tables trying to setup while you're playing
- bad ground that hum into the dvs input and need you to set it with a higher threshold (less reaction)

Now TTs are only for home use, even if dvs have made huge progress (anti skip, noise filtering). I was going for a Twelve but doing really need it because I have a V7.

What I see with Phase is that it will prevent people from being disgusted by the numerous issues of mixing with TTs. If Phase would have been there years ago, lots of decks and midi controler wouldn't have seen the light...

Dumb idea. The 12 is not isolated properly as a normal tt is.

I think phase is fine as a back up, just like instant doubles, and internal. But I'm not keen on anything wireless as a base setup.

Also setting the tone arm on reset with needles while using this is blasphemous lol. For all that just use CDJs, 3900s, V7, Twelves or a whatever.

This is bad though. Many years ago I had to properly clean contacts on a tonearm as a result of people licking carts. The contacts in the tonearm were corroded from moisture. I used a magnifying glass and light and you could actually see the build up. Had to use some sort of silver paint cleaning thing to get the contacts back to working.

Also, there are spots with beat as gear tho. One spot in particular had a very sticky (multiple drink spilled) Rane 62. But I also blame unprofessional djs for that. But most posh spots i've spun at have CDJs anyway. It's seldom I run into turntables.

Foreal though are you gonna just leave the tonearm on the rest while you DJ?

that's sort of the point

I think that's what they're gearing towards. If you think guests already found it confusing how serato works, now they'll see rested tonearms and needles not touch the vinyl and be extra confused LOL

should just print out a diagram explaining how the wireless system and DVS works and hand them out to people who ask.

LOL

Poor Shure and Ortofon

Unless one of them buy Phase.

I can see this happening especially if Phase turns out to be very successful!

People still spin wax.

Ortofon could just lower their prices too lol. Just sayin.

Someone will come up with a separate touch strip. For Traktor it is already on X1 mk2, DPP has on screen touch control.

that would be lovely ..haha

Let's see this built into a mixer

I agree 💯. Just like they did with the Serato box and package the receivers with it, I will buy it right now! I say a updated Mixars Duo Phaser bundle!

Absolutely no reason why someone like Pio can't just buy Phase or licence it

Full analogue Turntable PLX 750 Wireless DVS with the sender under the platter

The receiver inside a DJM 350/450 Wireless DVS

Best of both worlds...You can still use your regular styli and if you wanna go wireless it's available.

Sensor must be above the platter. It tracks the records movement not the platter.

I had an idea like this in the late 90's, when I moved from vinyl to CDJ500's and I missed the scratch manipulation of the record, and also working in I.T. I saw the evolution of the mouse and wireless tech.

Take the Technics 45 adapter, hollow it out.
stick in an optical sensor or 2 from a mouse, on the bottom 'looking' at the vinyl sticker.
Add a twist 'chuck' to the centre of the 45 adapter to grip tightly the platter spindle.
Add an optical sensor on the side of the 45 adapter to read the distance to any tonearm with a reflector sticker on the side, for needle position info. I thought about another 45 adapter to somehow read the position of the tonearm at the pivot, couldn't work out how to mount it neatly, in my head.

Throw all this data to a device via Bluetooth, or whichever wireless comms would take off, at the time.

The device could then slow down and speed up the audio like the drag and advance of my CDJ500's but in real time. Hell I could speed up and slow down audio from my PC's Soundblaster sound card, how hard could this be.......

Alas I never made in and now work a 9-5.
Someone probably made it I guess.

I then moved on to retrofit a midi interface to my CDJ500, with wires soldered to the internal switches and exiting to a break out box. I wasn't very successful with the platter/control dial.

I've heard from several people that the latency / responsiveness was very impressive. Most said tighter than serato's latency even. Big plus for some turntablists. Too soon to tell though how reliable it is tho.

Coat the platter underside with vinyl...will that work

?

You mean place the sensor in the deck platter to 'read' the underside of the vinyl record?
You're trying to report back the position of the vinyl, not the platter otherwise it's just a controller setup where you manipulate the platter.

But you're over complicating things, just gaffer tape your mouse to the end of the tonearm, gaffer tape down the left mouse button, put the cursor over the waveform in SDJ on the PC, put the mouse on the record and wiki wiki wiki scratch away.

Ha i forget about slipmats. Yeah it has to be on top to read the actual vinyl movement.

I do remember some company, back in the day, prototyping a laser stylus to read the vinyl tracks, don't know how it tracked though. That never took off.

Trying to re-invent the wheel(s of steel), I guess today's controllers have it pretty much nailed.
Tomorrows DJs won't remember vinyl, or have any past knowledge of the feel.

Minority Report style will be the next thing, DJs big fish little fish cardboard boxing their way through mixes.

elpj.com was the only one to pull off a laser system that worked and that was for home use, archival purposes. I wouldn't mind one if I won the lottery :D

Let me guess - it's tighter than Serato, using Serato.

lovely

LOL

I can't say if it indeed has a tighter response/latency than a needle DVS setup since I was not there, but this was a strong consensus from I heard about it, including Dj's that went from my city (PDX.) Skratcher wild cuts champion celly who attended also had the same remarks. Many people were impressed, including a lot of the tablists that attended.
Latency is a huge deal for tablists. I prefer to scratch on real vinyl because it has an instant response. Even the smallest differences make the experience feel more natural. Of course you can cut on DVS but I have to adjust my timing a bit when switching from DVS to just the ole' scratch record. So the latency and the accuracy of the tracking at really low speeds (tablist stuff) is something that really has grabbed my attention. But this is just the first impressions from NAMM.

I am also waiting to hear more opinions from more people I know that got to try it out this year. I don't know if it would be possible to improve the latency by using this wireless phase system within the DVS itself, and computer processing power plays a role, but I am only going off of people opinions that went (specifically scratchers. ) If it's only as tight as a traditional DVS setup can get than this is not that big of a plus for me personally.

Here's my question... How long can this product really be in demand for? Don't most nighclubs have CDJs? Or is this gear towards home use? Just trying to wrap my head around it.

It can't possibly be tighter than a DVS setup because it relies on DVS to work.

I think its pretty innovative (phase) but other than that it might just be a backup piece of gear for a clubs trashed tt's. I've also seen those headshells that go straight to the mixer bypassing the tt innards for such situations as well, but i don't know if that really took off.

I have heard it feels as good as a serato record (from someone I asked today) in terms of Latency from some and I've heard maybe better/tighter from a few. Could just be that the computer running the demo had really high specs for serato and maybe some of those dj's laptops don't quite cut it when they put it on the tightest buffer on their laptop? There is still some drift issues but it was a known issue.

Hopefully some forum members attended NAMM and had an experience with it. I was skeptical at first too because I thought it was being touted as impressive for being a wireless dvs device, but I heard that it was tighter than the rane 12 latency (which should run as tight as a tt, cdj or controller using dvs?) maybe their latencey at the rane booth laptop wasn't maxed out? So either some magic was going on or people were just exaggerating what their thoughts/experiences were about phase. I was not there, but some of the opinions (especially from whom) i heard got me really interested in phase, even if it's just to become an accessory/backup piece.

The biggest complaint I heard about the phase was the wireless range. Like literally if the receiver was sitting on the left deck, the right deck wouldn't pick up.

I wouldn't doubt that's intentional to try to reduce chances of interference, and I heard they're going to work on extendeding the range a bit more.

They were having signal issues.

They should split the receiver in two - makes it possible to be closer to the sender and also easier for diy integration into a turntable.

As close as possible, close enough to touch the record.... or even an arm that hovers right over the sender... like two cm above it (that should work)

A pair of Twelves is out of my price range. This is an affordable risk.

They should make it mount on the unused tonearm.

...and run the signal through the RCAs.
lol

Inserted in the hinge slot is better in my view.

Great idea.

I thought something like this would be ideal (transmitter in the record or platter ideally) until it actually came out. Now I'm realizing that I'd rather deal with needles and control vinyl then use Phase and look/feel super dumb Djing on turntables with the tonearm sitting on the rest.

Pff, it's not dumber than a tt without a tonearm...that requires a third party magnetically attached one.

I'll be all about it. Most of the time the gigs where these would be most useful - mainly music festivals and larger clubs - the booth is too high to see the decks regardless.

Besides, I'm so over replacing needles and control vinyl not to mention having to deal with bad tonearm contacts, RCA leads, and feedback when on the road that if these work properly, it would be a no brainer for me.

It's also much more likely that I would use these to handle problematic setups than expecting every show to have a set of Twelves ready for me.

So put the tone arm on the record. No one will know the difference. Its not like its playing anything.

Lol, it works even with a broken needle.

I would hide it in a record made of wood and put it on the TT just to see people reactions.

I'll just go into business selling "phase" endless groove dummy records and fake dummy "phase" needles for fake tonearm use.

Split the Phase receiver into two, make each half screw into the headshell mount on the tonearm, run a thin cable under the tonearm with elegant clips to the rear of the deck where it plugs into the box o tricks.

But why would you, we have a vinyl decks solution, we have perfectly fine controllers and we have pad masher DJs.

It's a product that not required trying to better what's already available on an ever decreasing market.

If it's as cheap as replacing the carts on my old decks I might drag them out of the attic.

Pros i see:
- better calibration and signal, not dependent on cart output strength and/or control vinyl imperfections
- no warped CV problems (needle skip)
- no record wear (don't have to renew your CV)
- no needle wear or other needle related problems like dust collecting that needs constant wiping
- easy change of dj's
- easy cross change with regular vinyl
- no annoying "wee" needle talk when in quiet environment

Cons:
- not in two parts, per deck
- no single receivers to purchase as a spare
- possible wireless connection problems
- possible battery autonomy problems

I can't believe that the lack of needle dropping isn't listed as a 'con'.

I took easy change off the list. If both djs use it the change over would be about the same as a serato box.

And the list is kinda fluffy - analog vinyl and needle problems.



- another box to carry and set up
- no needle drop
- added latency
- takes space on the label many djs need to perform

Persobally, I wouldn't trust wireless conectivity till I hear absolutely zero reports of issues, which I doubt.

But for me the real deal breaker is it sits on the label. I use that area and there arnt enough pros to change my habits. Particularly when TWELVEs eliminates those cons and have the same pros+++.

Rane 12s FTW official
(I still might buy Phase tho)

They can do it as a paid subscription or insurance so when the battery wears out on the unit they send you a new one.

They better send it for free, otherwise that's an incentive to offer weak batteries

+1


A lot of DJs including myself just don't use that feature. I tried to use it in the past but it just isn't my thing.


But yet you still use Serato to DJ and there are reports of issues on a daily basis. There is no such thing as a perfect product. It's up to the end users skill and environment. Some DJs use shitty computers and then try to blame the software for their issues. Would you base your opinions of a product on that person's reviews?

Well that is clear from the beginning, tonearm is out. This thing is supposed to turn your tt into a motorized platter controller. For Traktor one can use the X1 touch strip.


It wont be the same, next dj just plugs his soundcard into free channel inputs, he has nothing to unplug.


Is that confirmed? It shouldn't add.



Not bigger than the carts box.

Of course not, but how do I know if a reviewer has a shitty computer?

I don't use Serato because I think it is more stable than analog vinyl - there are many other 'pros' for why I use it which are more important than the'cons' less stability.

So for me to use this it would have to be shown that it is nearly as stable as hardwire connection. I don't see what it does that will have me risk a wireless issue (unless Im at home)

Like I said about the same as a Serato box change over. The control signal still has to reach Serato - that would be through the rca... and the optimal box position...


How can it not add latency? A wireless signal converted into a control signal and sent out analog is going to add latency however well its done.



- another box to keep track of can be lost/stolen/forgoten
- more cables to set up, time/issues
- remember to keep charged

With CV: tt's > box > mixer. The next dj should unplug the tts from box 1 and plug them in his own Serato box 2.
With Phase: only box > mixer, no tt's unplug - replug.

im sure it will be as corny as air horns at some point, but for the first few years the pick up the record off the deck and scratch in the air is gonna be a fun, especially when done for extremely drunk ppl

I give it like a year. lol

I remember buying a pair of dicers and used them once. Mostly just used the X1, and even that I stopped using, as well as the serato app. Basically just used everything available on the 57. I dunno, nothing more annoying to me than extra shit I have to plug in and carry. Your whole set up just ends up being like a battle station.

I don't get all the hype around the twelve, everyone's talking about it like it's the new big thing, when in fact, controllers/players with motorized platters are nothing new at all (Denon SC-series, Numark NS7, Numark CDX/HDX, even the Technics units). I recently bought a used HDX for next to nothing and it feels amazing (other than the rather cheap plastic chassis), great motor and all, I even feel like it might be a little more accurate than my DVS-setup. and these things have been around for more than a decade (all be it, they have been discontinued just a few years later) and can be had for very cheap.

I'd be all about it they were the size of a V7 for portability. But 12" platter and weighs almost as a pair of techs don't really help in the portability/weight department for me as far as mobile gigs go.

The hype is there because it’s made by Rane. They are a proven company. It’s not for everyone and most are complaining because they can’t afford it. It will be most hip-hop clubs within 2 years. Easy set up and reliable.

I don't see how you would cram a 12" platter onto the body of a V7 lol. but I have to agree, especially the HDX' are like 25 pounds each, and the twelves do look (and probably feel) a lot more refined, clean and "professional".

but let's face it, DVS wasn't a particularly good design to begin with. like, why would you waste all this money on a perfectly designed tonearm, cartridge, styli and so on, when all you do is track noise? you still have to put up with wear and tear of the records and the styli, when sonically, you can't even tell. the idea was certainly there and I feel like we're getting closer to a pretty good hybrid setup (Phase), but there's still room for improvement. it's like we try so hard to stay true to our roots and not to get a controller that we end up messing with our gear so heavily that we might as well just get a controller, a DVS setup in my eyes is no more vinyl than a NS7 (where you're in fact touching 7" vinyl disks spinning at 45 rpm).

The hype is that its a 12" plater - as requested. And that it should feel very close to if not exactly like a tech. And yes, built by Rane (apparantly)

Right, i should have been clear. When using a Serato enabled mixer, it would be like the Serato box switchover. In fact its like having a Serato box which is funny if you bought a Serato mixer to not deal with the box - you have one again.

what about the CDX/HDX tho? 12" platter, same great motor as the TTX, built in player (I honestly don't get why the Rane is just a controller, why would you WANT to use your laptop if you want a vinyl-like experience?) and some other, mostly turntablist-specific, goodies. I mean I get it, it's made by Numark, it looks cheap and dated, but still, the Twelve is nothing new and exciting to me.

why would you want all these compromises anyway?

They look like tanks and not as silly as the Numark decks, that's why people are excited. Yeah the Numarks have been around but they look butt ass ugly and the Rane aesthetic trumps them in every way.

It's a better mouse trap (hopefully).

I never said anything about wanting to be a 12" platter. I actually meant make it the same platter size of a V7. Or a 10inch, worse case scenario.

A 10" can be put on the V7 but you'll lose some controls.
The Numark CDX/HDX are still runinng fine, I only had to change the laser tray of my CDX for 20$.
Here are some of my babies : www.instagram.com

there's no switchover for the Phase - all it does is provide a tone. Only thing you'd switchover is the mixer - which most pro-level installed serato mixers will have 2 USBs anyway.

The tone travels through rca to the mixer, no?

If you are sharing the same 62 for example, and both DJs use Phase (since everyone will be using it) then you will have to unplug one, and plug in the other. Same as a Serato box.

What compromises are those?

you don't have to unplug rca's when using the 62. you just switch over the channels in the mixer.

All the phase does is replace the timecode tone - so instead of vinyl and the turntables plugged into mixer, it's the box plugged into the mixer. It would be no different than a pair of DJs sharing a set of turntables plugged into a 62 and you've never had to unplug anything when switching over DJs.

How about a DJM S9. Doesn't the Phase have to be plugged into the the CD/Line input?

would be the case with any mixer - it's just sending a timecode to the mixer. There's no interaction between your laptop and the phase box. All it is, is a complicated replacement for the control vinyl - the DJ software and hardware should function the exact same way as if it were reading control vinyl.

I understand how it works. On the same mixer each DJ will be using the same rce Line inputs. When its time to switch one box will be unplugged then the other plugged in per channel.

Are you thinking I said there would be dead sound?

If the Phase transmitted midi signals direct to serato, then yea, you'd need to plug it in via usb and changeovers would require swapping out the box (although it should be as easy as unplugging it from one computer into the other), but then it wouldn't require any RCA cables and would be more akin to using CDJs in HID more or the Twelves.

As is, the current version feels more like an easy way to get the most compatibility with software and gear without any complicated licensing or partnerships.

It's not even outputting the official Serato tone - it's using a reverse-engineered clone of the signal - much like the old Denon 3700/3900 CDJs do

I suppose if everyone wanted to use their own boxes, then sure you'd have to switch them out. Then it would be like if everyone wanted to use their own SL boxes over the course of the night.

For $200-$300 tho, I could see most clubs just getting their own if the demand is there.

correct.

So when you get on after the previous DJ, you will unplug his Phase box going into RCA Line In and plug yours into the same channel.

or no?

DUDE! Thats exactly what I have been saying the whole time. wtf?
lmao

As matter of fact, won't each box be coded to its particular signal sender things?

If not, thats another pretty big problem if two DJs are using Phaser.

Ad that to the cons list.

Yea, I guess I'm just used to hanging out when I'm playing and tag teaming.

i'm assuming you'd need to pair them much like most bluetooth devices.

one thing you could do is plug the TTs into the phono input and play off a time code while switching over (or even just play in internal). It's not ideal, but it's less complicated than trying to switch out Serato boxes as you don't have to flip any audio sources. Just run a tune and do the switchover while the tune still plays.

Its less complicated, but its a similar to switching SL1 boxes.


Does anyone know if the transmitters are coded to each box or are they just coded 'left' 'right'?

If they are only coded L/R then there is a huge change over issue.


If its just L/R............ LMAO

it's wouldn't really tho - you'd just flip to internal and unplug one box and plug in the other.

It's not like you'd have to unplug one side, plug in the other box, make a mix and do it again like you had to with the old SL boxes.

Even if it wasn't exclusively coded, it would be as simple as flipping to internal and turning off the box in use, although if it wasn't I could see some jokesters bringing their transmitters to gigs and fucking with the DJ. I think there were times people would bring Apple Remotes to shows and fuck with people's laptops - I believe someone did it to steve aoki once...

I suppose that's partially why the range is so small...

Yeah, I didn't say it was exactly the same switch over precess. Its like. As in similar.

I was going to mention the apple remote.

....but man, if you want to sabotage.... how close would you have to get with a couple live ones in your pocket? And if you were really mad at the DJ, could you mod the transmitters with an antenna? probably.
(lol - thats going to be great)

it's way easier then switching boxes tho - only slightly more complicated than changing needles because you're never in much danger of stopping the music due to being able to run in internal mode.

At NAMM, I read a report where if the box wasn't placed directly behind the mixer in the center and was say next to one of the turntables - even on the side closest to the mixer - the other side wouldn't pick up. The team said they were going to work on increasing the range a bit, but I have no doubt the short range is by design in order to minimize chances of interference.

The dj switch over IS like switching serato boxes ONLY with 2ch mixers that have only one line level input per channel, like S9. But as pointed above you have the tonearm available on that same channel.

Yes, its easier (until we take into the consideration of 2 receivers and 4 transmitters being on in the same space)

And right, I didn't say anything about the music having to be stopped, obviously it doesn't, and never did.

But its like switching SL boxes. as in similar.

Its funny because they designed mixers to get rid of the box - but heres a similar box being added.

I put that in the 'con' column



Sure, and thats part of the change over, there will be an optimal position for the box.



Either way, its more hassle. And when several DJs use it potential for disaster.

'con'

exactly, don't forget your carts for the switch over. lol

it isn't anywhere near as annoying or complicated if you have a 2 usb mixer.

DJ 1 - plays last track, flips to internal, unplugs box

DJ2 - plugs in box, gets connected, flips mixer to his laptop and makes a mix, flips other side to his laptop and flips back to relative.

It would be a lot like changing needles but instead of the needles, you just swap out the boxes plugged into the mixer.

Well if you insist there are small boxes that convert the phono in to line in lol.

That SLDZ1200 makes me wonder...How would the Phase transmitter behave if attached to it meaning not on the spindle (doesn't have one) but on the "song surface" of the control platter, radially?

Changing serato boxes mid gig requires fucking around with wires and swapping each side out one at a time if yo don't want the music to stop.

This is more akin to swapping out your needles, records, and slipmats when changing over - only the difference is you have to unplug one box and plug the other in while music is still playing in internal.

There's no danger of accidentally unplugging the wrong side and killing the music like you would trying to swap serato boxes around.

The only similarity is that it's a box and it uses RCA's. All the pain in swapping serato boxes comes from the risk of accidentally stopping the music.

ok, I call that added complication - to whatever degree you want to measure it.

It's one more step and a low risk one, so I don't really see it as a big deal unless these things have issues with pairing - but if that's the case I woukdnt be getting them in the first place.

Calling it a "con" is a bit of an overstatement to me.

Maybe for you, not for me.

Every extra item needing to be plugged/unplugged is a 'con' to me whatever the system.

offtopic, but how do you like the DZ1200? seems like a lot of people have mixed opinions on these.

You would have a hard time trying not to hit the transmitter.
I also think that the added weight would kill the startup motion.


It's fun, like an old car without esp/abs and steering assist. You need to know how to move your hands, so it is a very good school for smoothness.
On the other side, I've tried the mk2 mod and didn't like it at all (too much drag) so I revert it back to factory state (adding a few tweaks) and I like it now.

The fact is that it was a dead unit that I bought and bring back to life, so may be something is wrong with mine but it doesnt like weight at all. In my case the weight of a real 10" with the mk2 mod was too much (tried a lot of them).

It is a nice unit for collection as a piece of history but I will never go out with it, even the CDX sometimes have issue to initialize the timecode cd after transportation, so I prefer my Numark V7 when playing out.

Phase thing will work well as a club install if it has some sort of timecode switching feature like a button to scroll through all current timecodes.

you would think it would be optimized to detect the rotations with the centre spindle through the hole.

should grab yourself some Denon SC3900s to add to the collection of spinning platter CDJs.

all of this motorized platter talk really makes me wanna get an NS7/a pair of V7s lol

Exactly Sir ! On my list, just need to find a good deal in my area.
Also a Stanton SCS1D would be a nice addition there too. ;)

Bruh, makes me want to get a pair V7s really bad actually. I was just thinking that. Def not NS7, thing is a massive heavy tank.

Were there any complaints about these?

true that. especially when there's the Numark X5

Vestax should've made a motorized platter digital player, imagine a PDX3000 without the tonearm, what a beast!

Drift and internal mode after some times. This is mainly because the noisemap from the DSP isn't the real one from Serato (some rights stuff there), so it doesn't work exactly like the Serato one, it's more like an emulation.

But that's hybrid mode right? If you used a tone signal on a thumb drive it was fine, correct?

lol @ all the Phase cons turned this thread to the 'there ain't shit new about the TWELVE' thread.

LOL

mofos need to just get back to the music and djing. lol

All these fly by night gadgets come and go. Meanwhile all my original equipment still works and serves a purpose. I'm just sayin.

Truth. My 1200s still in regular use like everyone else's. Even a TWELVE won't retire them.

Honestly I don't know, it would be a waste imo to not use all these midi buttons, so hybrid is the only way for me.

Don't forget as cool as the Phase is, is there even a street date being talked about yet? For all the hype this is a prototype and who knows if it will ever make it to market, a lot of things can happen.

It seems like someone will license/copy the tech and build it straight into the turntable and/or the mixer.
The integrated into a record idea is cool too.

I have a pair and use them with my 62 for most of my mobile gigs. As standalone, it's nothing I would ever trust, but as a serato controller, it's pretty good although there can be some sticker drift. The button layout isn't great and the buttons can wear pretty quickly as well, but the platter feels great.

HID would have been amazing, but hybrid mode works well enough for me.

Are there any pros/cons btwm the 3700 and 3900 model?

I found the sticker drift on mine comes more from the locking spindle getting loose. I'm trying to figure out how to tighten it, but it's buried under a lot of stuff so I've been trying to find a service manual before digging too deep.

Incidentally, the "bootleg" noisemap is something the Phase also uses so the same issues might occur using the phase - it's not like we saw anyone djing with it at namm - people were just scratching all the time.

The 3700 have less responsive platters so it made using the edges of the platters to slow down tracks almost unusable and you had to rely on the pitch bend buttons whereas you can drag the edge of the platters on the 3900s. Also, the sticker drift was way worse on the 3700s.

Interesting.

Thanks for the info.

seems like they could get that thin, probably more expensive.

built into mixer, guess with an enteina in the back

but built into a TT?
so you don't have to plug it in??

I have a pair of perfectly good technics 1200s, as do many of you. Regardless of phase, why would the 12 be an upgrade? I can live without the cue points I have them on my mixer and SP1. I even have dicers. And a tone arm is not a burden.

I would use the phase at home just to save record and needle wear. In the club I would say it would be quicker to set up a needle and record.

+1
Basically all of this. Especially the tone arm burden part.

Do not want to haul my TTs anymore. No matter what you say, not worrying about arms, carts, needles, and environmental variables in bars and clubs, it is just less stuff to worry about while keeping most of the tactile feel.

And you don't have to buy them...

some people will appreciate the improvements even if they are 'minnimal'.

no one said they are reinventing the game, quite the opposite.

I’ve always considered the environmental elements as just part of the game. But if it’s a continual problem for you, like if you play on boats and wobbly stages often then I can see how it can benefit. CDJS used to be a solution but this would give a familiarity to those used to vinyl.

Weight is never a problem for me as I’m not a mobile DJ. If it’s lighter then that would be a plus

Strip search looks alright

Still no reason for me to change though. If it works for others then all the better for them

right - that's why I can't understand why there is so much hate directed toward them...

Twelves are everything I've wanted. No more bad tonearms, leads, feedback, or vibrations. No more purchasing stylii (that seem to get more and more expensive) or control vinyl.

That said, I probably won't get them because I already have Denon 3900s and the Phase will make up for club/festival gigs. If a venue happens to have the Twelves installed - that's just a bonus.

I've always wondered if the MK2 mod ever addressed the drag. I also thought the mod was just too damn expensive for just a spindle so I never went through with the mod.

Phase on a perfectly working condition DZ1200 would be adding more unnecessary parts to the chain. The DZ reads the timecode via CD's or SD card perfectly fine and platter rotation would be better off without more weight (phase unit).

sooooo you wanna sell me these mk2 spindles really cheap? lol

I was in touch with a guy that was looking at enhancing the circuit board and the motor on the SLDZ to have better startup but I don't know where he is into his development.

thought running sound from the solved the issues

>the memory<

So if 2 DJs bring their own Phase vinyl is it possible for one Djs vinyl to interfer with the others when they're switching over. I mean I can literally take my own vinyl out and start "air scratching" just to fck around with the other DJ's mix! 😂 Lol

hahaha

pretty sure you'd need to be paired with the base station for that to work lol

LOL

Where there's a will... there's a hack!

They're cute. Great for those boat rides.

Otherwise novelty....No needle drop....Drop to cue, nothing.

Cute tho.

lol