Serato DJ Pro General Discussion

Talk about Serato DJ Pro, expansion packs and supported hardware

Why do all Serato DJ Controllers suck?

firstclassalltheway 8:00 AM - 18 October, 2017
Sorry for the negative rant, I think it comes from my general frustration with the quality of controllers on the market, I've been dj'ng for years, using Technics and Rane TTM57's and now the TTM57 MK2 mixer. I've used CDJ's and Pioneers mixers at clubs. Every now and then I need to do a private party or have some friends that are cheap and I don't feel like bringing all my stuff, so it would be nice to have a decent controller option.

After a few days and countless hours of nerd-ing out, reading up in different forums, watching youtube videos, checking reviews, I ended at the new Roland DJ 808, 505/202, Denon MC7000, Pioneer DDJ SX2 (which I have used), and even considering the old Numark NS7 (which after I checked out yesterday it's definitely too big and heavy for this application), the NS6, the NS6 II (would love to check this one out), even considering the old Vestax VCI 380, and curious about the Mixars Primo, but there seems to be one major thing missing on all of them. Quality. Seriously, it seems like the quality is a joke on these things. Even the "top tier" ones that are over $1000 seem to be missing Neutrik XLR, TRS, 1/4" connectors, high quality 96kHz sound cards, non plastic casing, non breaking buttons. Am I trippin??? Is it too much to ask for a high quality simple 2 or 4 channel mixer with some great feeling platters, solid construction, Neutrik or equivalent connectors, high quality faders, and a high quality sound card? Is there one out there that I just don't know about? Is Allen & Heath planning a resurrection after the Xone DX firmware Serato Itch debacle? Is Rane going to enter the game and show everyone how to make a decent controller?

Quality should be getting better at this point we're almost in 2018, only I feel like it's worse. Maybe these companies don't think anyone really notices or cares?

One of the venues I dj has a Pioneer DDJ SX2. I do like the size of it, but right off the bat it noticeably sounds worse than anything I've ever used, and it clips so easy it's insane. Already having issues with one platter not working on one of the channels, buttons starting to break... this is a $1000 controller we're talking about. I went to Sam Ash yesterday to check some other controllers out. All of their Pioneer Controllers all had missing knobs and faders. I don't know if people are pulling them off or if they are just cheap but it's a bad look. I did demo the Denon MC 7000 yesterday and the whole thing just felt cheap to me. Lot's of lights and flashy buttons, the platters were hyper sensitive (maybe there's a way to adjust this I did not figure out) and Denon doesn't even mention the sound card audio quality output anywhere! Not on the box, not on their website, for the 7000, 8000... this thing is a $1000 isn't that worth mentioning?? I have no other conclusion than it must be cheap. I also checked out the Roland DJ-808, which actually sounded pretty good, they do say they output at 96kHz and the platters did feel good, but the major thing that stuck out was the Play/Pause and Cue buttons were made with hard cheap plastic, and both of them were broken on the demo unit. Both sides. Again I know this is a demo unit but broken?? I had to press super hard to get one side just to play. So I'm guessing this will be a problem and this is a $1299 controller. The 505 and 202 have cheaper sound cards (even thought I like the layout of the 202). The Numark NS 6 2 and Mixars Primo Controller looks like they could be promising, but I'm just discourage now.

Help me out Serato fam. If there's nothing nice out there and say I want something like the equivalent of a Rane TTM56 or 57, something that is a work horse, feels good, doesn't break, doesn't sound like complete shit and works with Serato DJ, what should I get?
pdidy 8:43 AM - 18 October, 2017
Im my educated opinion, 95% of the problem is you. Your inexperience and inability to thing rationally is THE major issue here. So don't bother to waste anymore of your time.....My advise is to completely forget about controllers as they are clearly not for you, stick with your current gear and be happy. Controllers are not for everybody :)
firstclassalltheway 8:59 AM - 18 October, 2017
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Im my educated opinion, 95% of the problem is you. Your inexperience and inability to thing rationally is THE major issue here. So don't bother to waste anymore of your time.....My advise is to completely forget about controllers as they are clearly not for you, stick with your current gear and be happy. Controllers are not for everybody :)


Awesome, thanks!
mixgoonie 10:11 AM - 18 October, 2017
What is crazy is that the SX and SX2 which i've seen in lot of parties (a bit considered as standard DJ hardware) sounds like lot of you are telling like crap.

When you see the price of such thing, how is that even possible ?
pdidy 10:57 AM - 18 October, 2017
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What is crazy is that the SX and SX2 which i've seen in lot of parties (a bit considered as standard DJ hardware) sounds like lot of you are telling like crap.

When you see the price of such thing, how is that even possible ?

I think your english translator is broken lol. But I agree the ddj-sx2 is officially "standard DJ hardware" for mobile dj, bars and some clubs here in NYC.
firstclassalltheway 10:59 AM - 18 October, 2017
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What is crazy is that the SX and SX2 which i've seen in lot of parties (a bit considered as standard DJ hardware) sounds like lot of you are telling like crap.

When you see the price of such thing, how is that even possible ?


The Pioneer DDJ-SX2 feels like a $500 controller to me. Even if it was cheap though it still has bad sound quality IMO. I've been reading up on the DAC's that Pioneer uses for it's controllers and apparently they do use a lower quality DAC in the DDJ-SX2 than on the DDJ-SZ. So that explains a lot. On the DDJ-SZ they use a "precision engineered Wolfson DAC providing a signal-to-noise ratio of 111 dB on the Master Out to ensure incredibly pure sound reproduction." This is the same as on their Pro DJ equipment. I wish the Pioneer DDJ SZ wasn't so much bigger and twice the weight of the SX2. It's basically like just having 2 cdj's and a mixer in one heavy controller. It would be awesome to have a 2 channel version of this that weighed a bit less. Maybe I'm dreaming.

I just feel like at the $700-1000 price point these companies should be using some pretty good 24bit/96kHz DAC's. At this point I just need a good mobile option for when I don't want to bring turntables and a rane 57mk2. Something simple, 2 channel preferably, decent platters, and does not noticeably sound bad.
firstclassalltheway 11:01 AM - 18 October, 2017
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Im my educated opinion, 95% of the problem is you. My advise is to completely forget about controllers....


I think your english translator is broken lol. But I agree the ddj-sx2 is officially "standard DJ hardware" for mobile dj, bars and some clubs here in NYC.


fixed.
NUdisc0 1:39 PM - 18 October, 2017
Actually, your complaints are legitimate. SDJ sounds bad by itself. Most of the serato controllers do feel cheap. But I am surprised you did not rant about how cheap the CDJ-2000 feels. It feels like a toy compared to a Technics 1200 turntable. The DJM-900 feels like a toy compared to the Rane MP 2015.
DJ Tecniq 2:35 PM - 18 October, 2017
I just got the DDJSR2 and the DVS functionality is awesome. It sounds great and I have more for my t-tables now. The sound quality I think is a big improvement from the old SR.
DJ Tecniq 2:35 PM - 18 October, 2017
room*
Dj Owe 4:15 PM - 18 October, 2017
Serato djs analyser is broken.
To get the best sounding analysis.

download scratch live and analyse all music via that app then play your music in SDJ you will hear better sound.
Also make sure auto gain in scratch live is on too.

Some reason SDJ analyses songs too loud or clipped.
mixgoonie 4:22 PM - 18 October, 2017
Or apply the gain manually, but ssl remain better
DJ Nin 7:49 PM - 18 October, 2017
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I wish the Pioneer DDJ SZ wasn't so much bigger and twice the weight of the SX2. It's basically like just having 2 cdj's and a mixer in one heavy controller. It would be awesome to have a 2 channel version of this that weighed a bit less. Maybe I'm dreaming.

I just feel like at the $700-1000 price point these companies should be using some pretty good 24bit/96kHz DAC's. At this point I just need a good mobile option for when I don't want to bring turntables and a rane 57mk2. Something simple, 2 channel preferably, decent platters, and does not noticeably sound bad.


Yes. This.
eugguy 8:48 PM - 18 October, 2017
On a lighter note, the DJ2GO2 is awesome. Cheap feeling? Yes. But sometimes you need to use cheap equipment to really appreciate better equipment. Have a nice day.
Supagee 11:45 PM - 18 October, 2017
a lot of times people complaining about the sound quality of controllers but it really isn't the controller it is human error.

I have been asked countless times "why does it sound like shit?" and then just looking at how the tracks DB's are maxed out or pushed up you can see why. You should always make sure that your tracks volume is never clipping more than a bar or two in the yellow. Most guys don't bother figuring out what the settings should be and blame the controller.
R-A-C 5:41 AM - 19 October, 2017
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the equivalent of a Rane TTM56 or 57, something that is a work horse, feels good, doesn't break, doesn't sound like complete shit

there simply is none. the controllers can't keep up with a modular setup but they're cheap so the choice is yours.
if you're interested in a more technical analysis have a look at my post history in my profile. i did some comparisons of serato versions themselves as well as controller vs. rane sl2/3/4 including proper analog mixers.

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a lot of times people complaining about the sound quality of controllers but it really isn't the controller it is human error.

it IS the controllers. see above.
and even without any testing just do the math: an sl4 has a street price of around $799 and that's just the soundcard. now an all-in-one device that goes for $500 or even $1000 has not only the soundcard but also a mixer and 2 controllers ... not hard to guess that it's not the same level.
DjSyndic8 6:42 AM - 19 October, 2017
you have got to stop comparing dvs setups and scratch live to serato dj and Controllers
R-A-C 7:11 AM - 19 October, 2017
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you have got to stop comparing dvs setups and scratch live to serato dj and Controllers

which is exactly why firstclassalltheway won't get what he's hoping for.
NUdisc0 7:50 AM - 19 October, 2017
$799 for the sl4 is because it is Rane. And tbh, the SX2 is a mid range product; as a result, it is supposed to sound bad... Can't compare the s4 and some mid range controller. Some controllers do sound better than others. It is not just settings: though it can play a role. Also, not every 24bit/96kHz sound card sounds good.
mixgoonie 8:38 AM - 19 October, 2017
Why cannot we use the SL4 as souncard when playing with another midi controller....

Because Serato is blocking the use of another soundcard that the one of the midi controller...

There is a topic for allowing the use of an external soundcard if you want to add your comment on it.
firstclassalltheway 11:25 AM - 19 October, 2017
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Actually, your complaints are legitimate. SDJ sounds bad by itself. Most of the serato controllers do feel cheap. But I am surprised you did not rant about how cheap the CDJ-2000 feels. It feels like a toy compared to a Technics 1200 turntable. The DJM-900 feels like a toy compared to the Rane MP 2015.


Hahahaha, I mean the Pioneer CDJ and DJM mixers are different beasts all together and I’m not looking to buy them so I'm not going to lump them in with the controllers but I feel you.

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I just got the DDJSR2 and the DVS functionality is awesome. It sounds great and I have more room for my t-tables now. The sound quality I think is a big improvement from the old SR.


That's dope I'll have to check that one out. I just said fuck it and bought the Mixars Primo. I found out they're owned by RCF which is enough for me to say yes honestly. RCF definitely has high standards, I hope this controller is the same! They mention a high quality sound card as well, I emailed them for specs, hopefully they get back to me soon, and for $599 shipped this controller could be a steal in a sea of plastic controllers.

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Serato djs analyser is broken. To get the best sounding analysis download scratch live and analyse all music via that app then play your music in SDJ you will hear better sound. Also make sure auto gain in scratch live is on too. Some reason SDJ analyses songs too loud or clipped.


I turned everything off in Serato DJ today before I started spinning. I had simple snap to grid selected for some reason, I turned off key lock, I don't have pitch n time, and I even turned off auto gain. I also turned my buffer way down, it actually sounded better! At this point I'm like fuck it let's strip everything off that this program is doing to my mp3's and see if it sounds any better and it did!

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Yes. This.

Hopefully the Mixars Primo is the one! I'll do a review or something once it arrives.

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On a lighter note, the DJ2GO2 is awesome. Cheap feeling? Yes. But sometimes you need to use cheap equipment to really appreciate better equipment. Have a nice day.


Hahahaha amen.

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a lot of times people complaining about the sound quality of controllers but it really isn't the controller it is human error. I have been asked countless times "why does it sound like shit?" and then just looking at how the tracks DB's are maxed out or pushed up you can see why. You should always make sure that your tracks volume is never clipping more than a bar or two in the yellow. Most guys don't bother figuring out what the settings should be and blame the controller.


Maybe for amateurs, but if you're not a red-lining/clipping/distorting 128kbps-youtube rip kinda dj and your controller has a shitty sound card then yes, you can blame the quality of the controller or maybe you can go as far as saying it's all of our faults for buying this shit and not demanding higher quality options. I just want something better that's all. Not just for me, for all dj's. I know I sound like I'm on some robin hood shit right now, but for real if these sound cards are the equivalent of the SL-1 which was released in 2004, this should be embarrassing to them. The SL-3 has been out since 2009, that’s almost 10 years!! Can’t they make an equivalent sound card to put in these controllers by now? Even if they actual controller is plastic like the Pioneer, does it have to still sound sub par for $1000??

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if you're interested in a more technical analysis have a look at my post history in my profile. i did some comparisons of serato versions themselves as well as controller vs. rane sl2/3/4 including proper analog mixers.


definitely about to read your posts, thanks for doing this btw.

That being said, I'll post some honest feedback on the Mixars Primo if anyone is interested when it arrives and I use it a few times. Thanks for all the input, I really do appreciate it.
Hanginon 12:07 PM - 19 October, 2017
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Because Serato is blocking the use of another soundcard that the one of the midi controller...

There is a topic for allowing the use of an external soundcard if you want to add your comment on it.


This would fix the whole sound quality issue - allow users to use any soundcard, whether internal or external to the controller, like other DJ software.
DJ Tecniq 1:01 PM - 19 October, 2017
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That's dope I'll have to check that one out. I just said fuck it and bought the Mixars Primo. I found out they're owned by RCF which is enough for me to say yes honestly. RCF definitely has high standards, I hope this controller is the same! They mention a high quality sound card as well, I emailed them for specs, hopefully they get back to me soon, and for $599 shipped this controller could be a steal in a sea of plastic controllers
That's funny I was actually going to order the Mixars Primo simply for the led indicators however they kept changing the release date and I even reached out to Mixars and they had no ETA when it would be available. I've heard late August, October and even December 2017. Nothing was ever confirmed and I couldn't wait forever so Pioneer got my money instead. If the Primo is a better deck I'll just trade my SR2. We'll see def let me know whenever you receive yours. I was going to preorder the Primo but I never got confirmed when it would ship cause no stores actually could tell me...😬
NUdisc0 6:05 PM - 19 October, 2017
I preordered the Mixars Primo for $549 at PSSL.com. It shows December 15 date. I am sure they will push that date further...
DJ Tecniq 6:17 PM - 19 October, 2017
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I preordered the Mixars Primo for $549 at PSSL.com. It shows December 15 date. I am sure they will push that date further...
Sweet deal I got my SR2 for $599. Would def much rather pay $549. Let me know how it handles when you finally receive it.
Jmoney$ 8:49 PM - 19 October, 2017
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II turned everything off in Serato DJ today before I started spinning. I had simple snap to grid selected for some reason, I turned off key lock, I don't have pitch n time, and I even turned off auto gain. I also turned my buffer way down, it actually sounded better! At this point I'm like fuck it let's strip everything off that this program is doing to my mp3's and see if it sounds any better and it did!


Seratos basic keylock is terrible especially with bass heavy tracks. PnT sounds great.

I think autogain sounds terrible as well. I have always kept it turned off and used platinum notes. My DDJ SX sounds good not as good as a DJM but not bad by any means.

If you have your buffer set lower than your computer can handle you will get degraded sound and its not always obvious that this is an issues because you may not get any dropouts only degraded sound
firstclassalltheway 10:23 PM - 19 October, 2017
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That's funny I was actually going to order the Mixars Primo simply for the led indicators however they kept changing the release date and I even reached out to Mixars and they had no ETA when it would be available. I've heard late August, October and even December 2017. Nothing was ever confirmed and I couldn't wait forever so Pioneer got my money instead. If the Primo is a better deck I'll just trade my SR2. We'll see def let me know whenever you receive yours. I was going to preorder the Primo but I never got confirmed when it would ship cause no stores actually could tell me...😬
I got an order update saying they're shipping straight from the manufacturer whenever they receive their first shipment. Hoping this is soon.

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I preordered the Mixars Primo for $549 at PSSL.com. It shows December 15 date. I am sure they will push that date further...
That's an even better deal! And discouraging ship date... :/

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II turned everything off in Serato DJ today before I started spinning. I had simple snap to grid selected for some reason, I turned off key lock, I don't have pitch n time, and I even turned off auto gain. I also turned my buffer way down, it actually sounded better! At this point I'm like fuck it let's strip everything off that this program is doing to my mp3's and see if it sounds any better and it did!

Seratos basic keylock is terrible especially with bass heavy tracks. PnT sounds great.

I think autogain sounds terrible as well. I have always kept it turned off and used platinum notes. My DDJ SX sounds good not as good as a DJM but not bad by any means.

If you have your buffer set lower than your computer can handle you will get degraded sound and its not always obvious that this is an issues because you may not get any dropouts only degraded sound
Interesting. I will definitely checkout Platinum Notes and read up on the buffer size. I don't have it set to the lowest but maybe I can bump it up a notch to avoid this.
Andrei Matei 10:26 PM - 30 October, 2017
I agree with original poster.

DDJ-SB/SB2: Junk. Unacceptable sound.
DDJ-SR: Poor sound.
DDJ-SX/SX2: Passable, but not good sound.
DDJ-SZ: Serious master gain issues with SERIOUS distortion after 0db. Undetermined. Build quality otherwise feels better.

DDJ-SR2 & SZ2: Heard they have been improved, have not tested.

Half of the problem is also Serato DJ sounds notably poorer than SSL. However, the OP's TTM57 with its internal SL1 did NOT sound good either.

If I had to pick a controller right now, it would be the SX2 and then connect it to an Allen & Heath Zed10 and then to the PA. Still, the controller feels cheap and is just not a fun experience. I play on one 4x a month on average. And yes, they break often - my buddies who do mobile with them have more issues than they should. They all treat their equipment with extra care like I do too.

I think a DJM-S9 with XDJ1000 is a combination of a fairly portable and good sounding option - if you can deal with SDJ 1.8 or newer...

Also, from above, I have no idea how someone can say a cheap, poor-sounding DAC in a crap controller is somehow "user error" or that flimsy construction is too. Nope.

Finally, the NS7 was always my favorite controller because of its build quality and great sound. But yes, its a beast and defeats the purpose of being a controller. You might want to check out the NS6II and see how that is. I haven't tried it.
Mike Czech 5:12 AM - 2 November, 2017
Just to note-

Your original argument is that a single $700-$1000 piece of equipment should be comparable to a $1500 mixer with $1000 worth of turntables hooked up to it. If you're discussing anything but the very high end of controllers (SZ family), you're missing the point.

The majority of controllers that Serato licenses their software to are good at doing what they are meant to be doing. I really don't expect a DJ playing for 500 people at a nightclub to be working on a DDJ-SB or SR. These are entry level units, and if I had to guess I would think 95% of them never leave the DJs bedroom.

I bought a DDJ-SR, and I find it more fun to practice on than my regular Technics & TTM57 setup. The one-to-one mapping of a lot of the SDJ functions is spot on. And I've been DJing professionally for 20+ years. The knobs and pads on any of the Pioneer DDJ line are way more durable than any of the more recent Rane offerings (62, I'm looking at you).

Anyways, have fun whatever you're playing on.

Cheers.
DJ Tecniq 5:33 AM - 2 November, 2017
I looked up the specs of the DDJSZ2 compared to the new DDJSR2 and they have the exact same soundcards. What are we really comparing? And why do others claim that Mid level controllers don't have as good of sound as the higher grade priced controllers? Makes no sense to me. The higher priced decks just have more features but share the same soundcard.
DjSyndic8 6:56 AM - 2 November, 2017
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I looked up the specs of the DDJSZ2 compared to the new DDJSR2 and they have the exact same soundcards. What are we really comparing? And why do others claim that Mid level controllers don't have as good of sound as the higher grade priced controllers? Makes no sense to me. The higher priced decks just have more features but share the same soundcard.


this is why Im getting the DDJSR2
DJ Tecniq 9:01 AM - 2 November, 2017
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this is why Im getting the DDJSR2
I have it it's an awesome controller but the SB2 even has the same 24 bit sound card so when I hear users on here saying...The SZ or this controller has a better sound quality blah blah blah...they all have 24 bit sound cards lol. Now certain outputs may be stronger or more high quality than others (XLR) but that's mainly it.
eugguy 4:18 PM - 2 November, 2017
SR2 is awesome.
R-A-C 7:12 PM - 2 November, 2017
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they all have 24 bit sound cards

24bit alone doesn't tell much. it only means that a device is capable of a higher vertical resolution. however, that's only one link of a long chain and if the rest is crap it still sounds crap.

think of it like this: just because you put ferrari tires on a vw beetle doesn't make it drive like a ferrari.
Logisticalstyles 10:03 PM - 2 November, 2017
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SR2 is awesome.

+1
DJ Tecniq 1:19 AM - 3 November, 2017
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SR2 is awesome.

+1
+2 here's a lil mix I made w/the SR2. www.facebook.com
NUdisc0 1:48 AM - 3 November, 2017
What is the pitch control resolution of the SR2?Is it 0.01%
Rebelguy 2:10 AM - 3 November, 2017
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I looked up the specs of the DDJSZ2 compared to the new DDJSR2 and they have the exact same soundcards. What are we really comparing? And why do others claim that Mid level controllers don't have as good of sound as the higher grade priced controllers? Makes no sense to me. The higher priced decks just have more features but share the same soundcard.


The Soundcard model numbers are the same or the specs are the same?

I have done a side by side comparison of the SX2 vs the SZ2 and it is a a night and day difference in sound quality.
DjSyndic8 2:19 AM - 3 November, 2017
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I looked up the specs of the DDJSZ2 compared to the new DDJSR2 and they have the exact same soundcards. What are we really comparing? And why do others claim that Mid level controllers don't have as good of sound as the higher grade priced controllers? Makes no sense to me. The higher priced decks just have more features but share the same soundcard.


The Soundcard model numbers are the same or the specs are the same?

I have done a side by side comparison of the SX2 vs the SZ2 and it is a a night and day difference in sound quality.


why do u think that is?
DJ Tecniq 2:20 AM - 3 November, 2017
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I have done a side by side comparison of the SX2 vs the SZ2 and it is a a night and day difference in sound quality.
That's interesting I have compared my SR2 with my S9 and it is pretty much the same. What does the SZ2 offer sound quality wise that the SX2 doesn't?
DJ Emir 3:22 AM - 3 November, 2017
That's because "Plastic parts are made for toys" - Sir Mix A Lot
"On The Wheels of Plastic" a term created for all non wheels of steel plastic CDJ and controllers ;) - www.djemir.com

Now I used to hate all things not Technics turntables, just because all of them felt cheap as shit to me, but figured others liked them and a few people actually can work the equipment well, and at the end of the day it doesn't matter what you are deejaying on if you can work it right and move people and DJ well on it so be it. But for me, everytime I try one out at guitar center or anywhere else they feel cheap and feel like they lack what their name implies "control" CDJs seem to even feel closer to vinyl than most of the controllers and those still aren't anywhere near the same as vinyl or DVS. Part of it is the size of the platters, those 45 sized and 7" sized platters are really meant for smaller hands, we have easier control closer to the middle or edge of the 12 inch records where a larger movement equates to less movement on the actual track... on smaller wheels a larger movement equates to a much larger movement of the track just because the distance scale has changed dramatically.

As far as sound quality goes I saw a major decline in serato sound quality in general after Serato Scratch Live 1.7 I think either 1.8 or 1.9 I started hearing crazy distortion and it bugged me so much I reverted back to an earlier version until I was forced to upgrade it when I wanted certain features and more stability. I now run Serato DJ on a DJM-S9 but wonder if I should have gotten the Rane 62 or waited for the new Rane 72. I like the Pioneer DJM-S9 but wonder sometimes about its stability and sound. I had to return my first S9 and had a few issues at first with the second one until a few updates ago. I always worry about issues resurfacing in the middle of a major event.
DJ Tecniq 5:14 AM - 3 November, 2017
Speaking of the S9 my first one was defective. Had bad xlr, booth outs and grounding issues for some odd reason. My replacement has been solid though. Pioneer's quality control has gone downhill completely I've heard way too many defective products esp the past 5 yrs. I have an SR2 now and the audio quality is no different than my S9.
Rebelguy 3:33 PM - 3 November, 2017
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I have done a side by side comparison of the SX2 vs the SZ2 and it is a a night and day difference in sound quality.
That's interesting I have compared my SR2 with my S9 and it is pretty much the same. What does the SZ2 offer sound quality wise that the SX2 doesn't?


Overall clarity is better. The muddy bass of the SX2 is gone with the SZ2. The only I like about the SX2 is the compactness compared to the SZ2.
DjSyndic8 6:08 PM - 3 November, 2017
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Overall clarity is better. The muddy bass of the SX2 is gone with the SZ2. The only I like about the SX2 is the compactness compared to the SZ2.


that's what I don't get.... if the sx2 and the sz have the same sound-card then why is the sound different? why is the bass muddy on the sx2... Im starting to think the sound card is a better quality sound-card on the sz and pioneer is not telling us... some kind of conspiracy😕
Rebelguy 7:23 PM - 3 November, 2017
Why does everyone assume it’s the same soundcard? Is there some literature available that states the part numbers for the two models. Just because the soundcards share the same specs does not mean they are the same model number.
Hanginon 10:19 PM - 3 November, 2017
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Why does everyone assume it’s the same soundcard?

One runs off a walwart, the other has an AC in plug. You don't even know if the internal DC voltages are the same - and higher voltage usually means more headroom
NUdisc0 11:10 PM - 3 November, 2017
Specs do not tell the entire story. The parts used themselves make the difference. Like a cirrus logic dac sounds different from a Wolfson dac and a burr brown dac. Then there is the integration with other circuits. I never go by specs.
Andrei Matei 3:32 AM - 4 November, 2017
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Speaking of the S9 my first one was defective. Had bad xlr, booth outs and grounding issues for some odd reason. My replacement has been solid though. Pioneer's quality control has gone downhill completely I've heard way too many defective products esp the past 5 yrs. I have an SR2 now and the audio quality is no different than my S9.


Wow, if the SR2 has the same sound as the S9 (which arguably sounds great, esp. as a standalone mixer without SDJ) that's huge. The old SR sounded terrible.
DJ Tecniq 7:10 AM - 4 November, 2017
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Wow, if the SR2 has the same sound as the S9 (which arguably sounds great, esp. as a standalone mixer without SDJ) that's huge. The old SR sounded terrible.
We'll I'll be the first to say there is a difference with any controller compared to a DVS mixer. I've always felt a controller sounds very digitized where as DVS I think sounds more natural however the SR2 has a power adapter and USB cable. I found the old SR created a buzzing sound kinda like static and the sound quality was definitely noticeable but I hear the complete opposite on the SR2. Try out the SR2 for yourself you'll see it's in a different league compared to the old SR. A big improvement imo.
Laz219 1:48 PM - 4 November, 2017
What are you outputting these through to be able to say they sound similar?
What files are you using to compare?

Theoretical specs are one thing, brands will always try and use anything they can to give themselves a marketing edge against competitors.
At this point I don't truly believe there's any controllers running true high end sound. They may be respectable but there is a reason an entire controller is the same price/less than a quality mixer.
In a world of MP3, I'm sure most are more than adequate- you're always limited by the lowest factor which is most peoples case- will likely be their file quality.
DJ Tecniq 2:51 PM - 4 November, 2017
Quote:
What are you outputting these through to be able to say they sound similar?
What files are you using to compare
I've outputted both through my KRK monitors at home and have used both on my QSC system at my mobile gigs. Both Pioneer products sound really nice. Both have XLR outputs. Regardless of price I don't think Pioneer makes a cheaper sound card in their mid level units compared to their higher end esp when both products have the same outputs (master xlr, master rca, booth) I always use the master xlr for best sound quality and I really can't tell the difference from my S9 mixer compared to the SR2 of course with pitch n time enabled cause without it the sound quality can sound terrible.
DJ Marv the Maverick 9:24 AM - 5 November, 2017
I have owned a few controllers and also used a couple.

The best sounding controller I've used is the Roland DJ 808 followed by the Denon MCX8000 and the Pioneer DDJ SZ2.

Side by side comparison of either of the above and the SX MK1 is night and day.

The sound is just more "fuller" and "fatter" with the 808/8000/SZ2

Paper specs can be misinforming.

It's possible they ve upped the game with the SR2 though...the competition is intense right now.

Quite a number of options in the sub 700 euros controller range.
MLML 10:04 AM - 8 April, 2018
I just read this discussion today, and Let me say that in my humble opinion, I was used to having Technics 1200's and a pro mixer. I purchased a used Allen & Heath Xone DX, and let me say this controller is old now, But, The sound quality is phenomenal, compared to even the MCX8000, I did a test a a club where they have a MCX 8000 in house, and several other DJ's where there are where blown away by the fact that the Xone DX sounded better, using the same mp3 file at the same level , everything exactly the same , we had both setup through a Zedd 8, and the Xone dx was much clearer and more full sounding then the MCX 8000, I really wanted to buy the MCX 8000, because of it's features, But I am critical when it comes to sound and decided i will stick to my Allen & Heath Xone DX, which by the way i bought for 75 dollars on Ebay used from a guy that thought it was a relic and dead. and he had no idea what he had. With shipping it came out to 100 dollars, best buy I ever made, It was dirty, had some sticky stuff on it, not sure what it was, there was wiring issues, Got it cleaned, fixed the wiring and now looks like new, I love it because it is so portable, nothing on it is cheap, made of metal, Solid performance, the beat griding is so solid it is rediculous, and the pots are all A&H typical pots, Funny how the Pioneer and Denon Controller Users would laugh at me when I came in and would setup my Xone DX and tell me hey you are a relic DJ with that dinosaur contoller, no pads nothing HAHA, , but when they hear the quality they are in shock, You can really hear the difference in quality big time. I really love all the new tricks and toys you can get with the MCX and higher end Pioneer controllers, But I hate the cheap plastic feel, and the cheap pots and knobs and faders, But the sound quality is what really deters me from buying something new, I think if Allen & Heath Would come out with a new solid controller with the same sound quality or better with all the new features found on controllers these days, You would see sea of used Pioneer and Denons for sale on Ebay, for people wanting to upgrade. I respect Denon as a overall company producing some good quality stuff, but there is nothing out there like Allen & Heath Quality that just surpasses all other manufacturers.

So In my opinion he is right most new controllers out there suck in the quality department especially with sound quaiity, Come on A&H Engineers it is time to show the industry a new controller that will blow everyone away, and make it the A& H quality we all come to love and respect.
Johnny H 9:36 AM - 9 April, 2018
Totally Agree 100%

Other than the SZ most of the controller are cheap build and poor quality sound

My pioneer CD2000s and A&H Xone92 mixer blows away every controller I have listen too.


It's a total disgrace that the manufacturer are putting out such rubbish and poor quality.

I too would like to see A&H known for there quality to build a mid sized (SX2 style) controller with the usual high standards of A&H, to blow away the crap that we are stuck with from pioneer.

It's almost as if pioneer are taking the P**S at DJs that use controllers with the poor quality and build of this total rubbish
DJ dVO 12:38 PM - 9 April, 2018
Totally agreed with your complaints!

Been looking for a replacement controller since the NS7 inception and nothing out there entices me to seriously. Sold the NS7 because it's too heavy. My 1210s and 57mk2 set up is just fine if I need a workout.

Tried the Akai AMX & AFX. Lack of XLRs killed me. Sold them.

I am still rocking with the VCI-380 because it's the perfect size. My only complaint about the 380 is the lack of DVS support.

But yeah, nothing of quality out there.
John Calipari 3:59 PM - 9 April, 2018
Quote:
Totally agreed with your complaints!

Been looking for a replacement controller since the NS7 inception and nothing out there entices me to seriously. Sold the NS7 because it's too heavy. My 1210s and 57mk2 set up is just fine if I need a workout.

Tried the Akai AMX & AFX. Lack of XLRs killed me. Sold them.

I am still rocking with the VCI-380 because it's the perfect size. My only complaint about the 380 is the lack of DVS support.

But yeah, nothing of quality out there.


The NS7III has been ultra solid. Although it weighs a ton, certainly the best Build Quality out there and wouldn't surprise me if InMusic sourced the same Sound Card for all of their flagships subsidiary controllers.
James Falk 9:21 PM - 9 April, 2018
Quote:
Sorry for the negative rant, I think it comes from my general frustration with the quality of controllers on the market, I've been dj'ng for years, using Technics and Rane TTM57's and now the TTM57 MK2 mixer. I've used CDJ's and Pioneers mixers at clubs. Every now and then I need to do a private party or have some friends that are cheap and I don't feel like bringing all my stuff, so it would be nice to have a decent controller option.

After a few days and countless hours of nerd-ing out, reading up in different forums, watching youtube videos, checking reviews, I ended at the new Roland DJ 808, 505/202, Denon MC7000, Pioneer DDJ SX2 (which I have used), and even considering the old Numark NS7 (which after I checked out yesterday it's definitely too big and heavy for this application), the NS6, the NS6 II (would love to check this one out), even considering the old Vestax VCI 380, and curious about the Mixars Primo, but there seems to be one major thing missing on all of them. Quality. Seriously, it seems like the quality is a joke on these things. Even the "top tier" ones that are over $1000 seem to be missing Neutrik XLR, TRS, 1/4" connectors, high quality 96kHz sound cards, non plastic casing, non breaking buttons. Am I trippin??? Is it too much to ask for a high quality simple 2 or 4 channel mixer with some great feeling platters, solid construction, Neutrik or equivalent connectors, high quality faders, and a high quality sound card? Is there one out there that I just don't know about? Is Allen & Heath planning a resurrection after the Xone DX firmware Serato Itch debacle? Is Rane going to enter the game and show everyone how to make a decent controller?

Quality should be getting better at this point we're almost in 2018, only I feel like it's worse. Maybe these companies don't think anyone really notices or cares?

One of the venues I dj has a Pioneer DDJ SX2. I do like the size of it, but right off the bat it noticeably sounds worse than anything I've ever used, and it clips so easy it's insane. Already having issues with one platter not working on one of the channels, buttons starting to break... this is a $1000 controller we're talking about. I went to Sam Ash yesterday to check some other controllers out. All of their Pioneer Controllers all had missing knobs and faders. I don't know if people are pulling them off or if they are just cheap but it's a bad look. I did demo the Denon MC 7000 yesterday and the whole thing just felt cheap to me. Lot's of lights and flashy buttons, the platters were hyper sensitive (maybe there's a way to adjust this I did not figure out) and Denon doesn't even mention the sound card audio quality output anywhere! Not on the box, not on their website, for the 7000, 8000... this thing is a $1000 isn't that worth mentioning?? I have no other conclusion than it must be cheap. I also checked out the Roland DJ-808, which actually sounded pretty good, they do say they output at 96kHz and the platters did feel good, but the major thing that stuck out was the Play/Pause and Cue buttons were made with hard cheap plastic, and both of them were broken on the demo unit. Both sides. Again I know this is a demo unit but broken?? I had to press super hard to get one side just to play. So I'm guessing this will be a problem and this is a $1299 controller. The 505 and 202 have cheaper sound cards (even thought I like the layout of the 202). The Numark NS 6 2 and Mixars Primo Controller looks like they could be promising, but I'm just discourage now.

Help me out Serato fam. If there's nothing nice out there and say I want something like the equivalent of a Rane TTM56 or 57, something that is a work horse, feels good, doesn't break, doesn't sound like complete shit and works with Serato DJ, what should I get?


I own an DDJ SX, an SX2 & a SZ. I'm playing almost entirely Xtendamix content on an Electro Voice Line Array system powered by 60,000 watts of QSC PLX 1602's. Although I can appreciate that the sound cards within the Pioneer units listed aren't the best, it certain isn't at "suck" levels & I'm running up to 108db levels in my club.

I certainly do notice the difference when running .wav & .flac format, most noticeably those I've ripped myself. iTunes 256kps AAC files sound just the same as the Xtendamix .mp4's I play & I do notice a slight improvement when playing .wav format from Beatport, although not as noticeable as it should be. I've always has the thought their ".wav's" were nothing more than converted .mp3 files at best 320kps, much like converting your iTunes tracks to a lossless format.

Lossy content can't improved. At best it's an exact "photocopy" of an image "already blurred"

I can't speak of the of the other units you mention. All I know is the quality I provide with the units mentioned are certainly acceptable. I will add that I always play with my Pioneer units at 0db (unity volume) & make my volume changed on the house system mixers when performing for the nightclub chain I work for, making sure of course that the trim (input) volume is at zero as well and then adjusting overall volume from the fader level.

When gigging at my own mobile events I turn up my signal from either the amps, or from the powered speaker as the night progresses and never use a compressor unless gigging with a system where I have 4:1 headroom.

From an audiophile perspective, one should only be making changes at one gain stage if the goal is to take advantage of all the components at ones disposal. Doing this also allows a visual on your main mixing unit so that every track you play is visually at the same meter reading which roughly corresponds to the same audio output level.
Hanginon 1:24 AM - 10 April, 2018
Quote:
I own an DDJ SX, an SX2 & a SZ. I'm playing almost entirely Xtendamix content on an Electro Voice Line Array system powered by 60,000 watts of QSC PLX 1602's. Although I can appreciate that the sound cards within the Pioneer units listed aren't the best, it certain isn't at "suck" levels & I'm running up to 108db levels in my club.

You need at about 38 PLX1602's to produce 60,000 watts - is that correct?
James Falk 7:24 AM - 10 April, 2018
Yes. In bridge mono mode at 4ohms a single PLX 1602 runs 1600 watts RMS.

All clubs in the chain uses similar gear, although cabinets differ per install & some still a have old QSC 1500's but each will run 12 amps for the main PA. It's the fill system that drives the total up. Dozens of EV SX-300's are used for fill inside. In addition there's 4 spares in each rack in case of a failure. If you wanted to get technical with these not in use the reality is 51,200 watts

With that said this difference could still be made up if the less powerful RMX series amps that drive 4 stage monitors & GX series amps thats drive the Evids on the patio are factored in.

To add to this, one club has an entirely different PA & amp rack that run the bands, but for EDM shows even these have been integrated into the main PA on occasion.

Although our sound is good, people are usually more impressed with the light shows. Hydraulic truss descending from 60 feet over the dance floor can be awe inspiring.
firstclassalltheway 11:24 PM - 22 April, 2018
Whoa... I had no idea there were so many new responses on this thread. I ended up buying the Mixars Primo controller back in October 2017 on pre-order and it just never came out. I emailed them several times, I just don't think this controller will every be released. I finally gave up and got my refund last month in March 2018.

I bought a used NS6 to do smaller budget private parties in the meantime and I use it with an older version of Serato DJ that's stable with the controller. It's good enough for now, the build quality seems great, I wonder if I can just modify it with a higher quality sound card and power output. Maybe that's the future of controllers for dj's?!?!?!? Wolfson DAC mods?? I'm starting a business who's in lol!! A new Allen & Heath controller would be amazing. A Rane controller would be amazing...

To the dude who mentioned I shouldn't be comparing $1000+ midi controllers to a $1500 Rane TTM57, bruh... that shit came out in 2006. The SL-3 sound card came out in 2009. We're almost 10 years in the future buddy. Yes there damn well should be a dj controller with an equivalent quality sound card and decent quality build. I really think the NS6 MKII is probably the closest thing to what I'm looking for minus the sound card quality. Which sucks. Is there just no market for high quality dj controllers?
James Falk 12:33 AM - 23 April, 2018
A system is only as good as it's weakest component.

What format are you playing back from?

I agree that controllers can be of far better quality, both in specs and composition.

The reality is relatively few are playing from a format where it'll be noticed, even fewer on a sound system large enough to make the results overly apparent.

Even fewer understand gain stage. Input volume (trim), fader levels, 0db master output, using compressors & limiters, clipping amps/powered speakers, wow/flutter (turntables) all play a significant role.

As a rule people replying to a post always assume the worst of the OP & just as often the OP either assumes those responding give him/her the benefit of the doubt, or are too clueless to have a full comprehension of the topic at hand.

Hoping things worked out for you. Which route did you end up going with your purchase? Are you happy with it?
Hanginon 5:13 PM - 23 April, 2018
Quote:
I bought a used NS6 to do smaller budget private parties in the meantime and I use it with an older version of Serato DJ that's stable with the controller. It's good enough for now, the build quality seems great, I wonder if I can just modify it with a higher quality sound card and power output. Maybe that's the future of controllers for dj's?!?!?!? Wolfson DAC mods?? I'm starting a business who's in lol!! A new Allen & Heath controller would be amazing. A Rane controller would be amazing...

If they ever fix their self imposed licensing bottle-neck (to prevent getting ripped off), they may be able to finally separate hardware from software...note their starting of a Monthly Subscription service similar to Adobe. Hopefully, that would open up the ability to use really High End sound cards, that in theory should smoke even the SL2/SL3/SL4.
mdtapia01 6:01 AM - 11 June, 2018
Did you ever receive your Mixars Primo that was PRE Ordered from PSSL? Saw that is stated under description that unit is no longer available or discontinued by manufacturer..didn’t even know it released to public at all.
DJ Tecniq 3:32 PM - 11 June, 2018
Quote:
Did you ever receive your Mixars Primo that was PRE Ordered from PSSL? Saw that is stated under description that unit is no longer available or discontinued by manufacturer..didn’t even know it released to public at all.
Mixars company had a date set but kept changing the release date i contacted many retailers cause i was interested in this controller sadly Mixars never released it I heard a rumor “RCF who is partnered and owns Mixars was getting out of the DJ biz and was selling off all of Mixars stock” it’s odd because we’ve seen no new products from them except the Quattro. Why they hyped up the product at NAMM is beyond me i don’t think the product is going to be released anymore although i know many users that were looking forward to it. It would of been the first 2 ch controller w/DVS and jogwheel indicators...Not anymore.
Jmoney$ 6:33 PM - 11 June, 2018
This is from NAMM 16 about Mixars

Apparently, the brain behind this company is in Italy at dB Technologies! Yes, that's right. dB Technologies is known for a countless number of smooth-sounding active loud speakers. It's therefore pretty remarkable that this brand is announcing their debut in a time where the DJ market seems pretty over-saturated as it is. It's been years since a serious DJ brand appeared out of nowhere, and the Italians sure seems determined to succeed with their entry-level product range and is ready to take on some heavy competition.
mdtapia01 11:55 PM - 11 June, 2018
Quote:
Quote:
Did you ever receive your Mixars Primo that was PRE Ordered from PSSL? Saw that is stated under description that unit is no longer available or discontinued by manufacturer..didn’t even know it released to public at all.
Mixars company had a date set but kept changing the release date i contacted many retailers cause i was interested in this controller sadly Mixars never released it I heard a rumor “RCF who is partnered and owns Mixars was getting out of the DJ biz and was selling off all of Mixars stock” it’s odd because we’ve seen no new products from them except the Quattro. Why they hyped up the product at NAMM is beyond me i don’t think the product is going to be released anymore although i know many users that were looking forward to it. It would of been the first 2 ch controller w/DVS and jogwheel indicators...Not anymore.


Gotcha. Was looking forward to it’s release wanted to grab one for smaller private gigs..Saw a quote somewhere online that stated “ The Rebirth of The Vestax VCI series controller”..loved my Itch VCI-300
Aptidda 11:57 PM - 11 June, 2018
Why do all DJ controllers suck? Simple answer, all dj controllers are cost cutting all in one machines. Most MFG’s put them together with cut rate hardware, faders, sound cards, processors etc. Modular setups on the other hand are far and away superior to all in one units. Personally, no matter the situation- a controller is not for me. Too cheap and I prefer to have a modular setup. Don’t buy one when first starting, they are all trash.
firstclassalltheway 11:14 PM - 14 July, 2018
@mdtapia01 No. I gave up on waiting and cancelled my order and got a refund a few months ago. For now I'm using a Numark NS6 for private events but I'm starting to have issues with getting Serato DJ to recognize the controller. :/ A whole other issues. Back to turntables for me hahaha
khy 5:47 PM - 16 August, 2018
denon mcx8000 and pretty decent soundcard and outputs and platters/jogwheels, on the larger size but still light enough to be easily portable in a softcase.

hercules jogvision small and cheap with good platters/jogwheels.

getting a roland 202 next
khy 5:48 PM - 16 August, 2018
when i move to my new spot breaking the 1210s & rane 62 back out for home use

denon for main weekly gig

roland for boat parties
R-A-C 4:42 AM - 17 August, 2018
Quote:
Why do all DJ controllers suck? Simple answer, all dj controllers are cost cutting all in one machines. Most MFG’s put them together with cut rate hardware, faders, sound cards, processors etc. Modular setups on the other hand are far and away superior to all in one units. Personally, no matter the situation- a controller is not for me. Too cheap and I prefer to have a modular setup. Don’t buy one when first starting, they are all trash.

that sums it up nicely. pretty much all there is to say despite this loooong thread
khy 4:07 PM - 4 September, 2018
Quote:
Quote:
Why do all DJ controllers suck? Simple answer, all dj controllers are cost cutting all in one machines. Most MFG’s put them together with cut rate hardware, faders, sound cards, processors etc. Modular setups on the other hand are far and away superior to all in one units. Personally, no matter the situation- a controller is not for me. Too cheap and I prefer to have a modular setup. Don’t buy one when first starting, they are all trash.

that sums it up nicely. pretty much all there is to say despite this loooong thread


that's not really true, they don't all suck, you can pay for premium top of the line controllers that have multiple balanced output and dual laptop inputs, but you don't really need that, a cheap sub $300 controller is enough to get a feel for it.
DjSyndic8 1:18 AM - 5 September, 2018
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Why do all DJ controllers suck? Simple answer, all dj controllers are cost cutting all in one machines. Most MFG’s put them together with cut rate hardware, faders, sound cards, processors etc. Modular setups on the other hand are far and away superior to all in one units. Personally, no matter the situation- a controller is not for me. Too cheap and I prefer to have a modular setup. Don’t buy one when first starting, they are all trash.

that sums it up nicely. pretty much all there is to say despite this loooong thread


that's not really true, they don't all suck, you can pay for premium top of the line controllers that have multiple balanced output and dual laptop inputs, but you don't really need that, a cheap sub $300 controller is enough to get a feel for it.


I agree also if you have a lot of money to throw around then everything you buy would be crap because you expect the best for the best (Ferdinand) we get what we pay for.
jaibenz 10:00 PM - 10 September, 2018
Quote:
Sorry for the negative rant, I think it comes from my general frustration with the quality of controllers on the market, I've been dj'ng for years, using Technics and Rane TTM57's and now the TTM57 MK2 mixer. I've used CDJ's and Pioneers mixers at clubs. Every now and then I need to do a private party or have some friends that are cheap and I don't feel like bringing all my stuff, so it would be nice to have a decent controller option.

After a few days and countless hours of nerd-ing out, reading up in different forums, watching youtube videos, checking reviews, I ended at the new Roland DJ 808, 505/202, Denon MC7000, Pioneer DDJ SX2 (which I have used), and even considering the old Numark NS7 (which after I checked out yesterday it's definitely too big and heavy for this application), the NS6, the NS6 II (would love to check this one out), even considering the old Vestax VCI 380, and curious about the Mixars Primo, but there seems to be one major thing missing on all of them. Quality. Seriously, it seems like the quality is a joke on these things. Even the "top tier" ones that are over $1000 seem to be missing Neutrik XLR, TRS, 1/4" connectors, high quality 96kHz sound cards, non plastic casing, non breaking buttons. Am I trippin??? Is it too much to ask for a high quality simple 2 or 4 channel mixer with some great feeling platters, solid construction, Neutrik or equivalent connectors, high quality faders, and a high quality sound card? Is there one out there that I just don't know about? Is Allen & Heath planning a resurrection after the Xone DX firmware Serato Itch debacle? Is Rane going to enter the game and show everyone how to make a decent controller?

You straight up trippin'.

Have you ever touched a Roland DJ-808???

If that ain't quality, you need to logout coz you done.
So Fresh 11:15 PM - 10 September, 2018
I had 4 808 in the end

Sample problem, bad up faders soldered to the board so had to factory fixed. Such a shame as it was great fun but wasted on me. Platers were the best I have ever used.

I actually bought another vci380 yesterday

I used to have one but sold it when i got the 808 and really regretted it. Amazing unit it for little gigs!!
JDforKing 12:20 PM - 11 September, 2018
Quote:
I had 4 808 in the end

Sample problem, bad up faders soldered to the board so had to factory fixed. Such a shame as it was great fun but wasted on me. Platers were the best I have ever used.

I actually bought another vci380 yesterday

I used to have one but sold it when i got the 808 and really regretted it. Amazing unit it for little gigs!!



I still use my 380 as well. 5 years strong.
Coherence 7:24 PM - 11 September, 2018
Quote:
I had 4 808 in the end

Sample problem, bad up faders soldered to the board so had to factory fixed. Such a shame as it was great fun but wasted on me. Platers were the best I have ever used.

I actually bought another vci380 yesterday

I used to have one but sold it when i got the 808 and really regretted it. Amazing unit it for little gigs!!


Fixed that problem. Made a video about it. Going strong under heavy abuse without issues. Definitely a Roland design flub, but simple enough to fix if you are willing to trash your warranty.

Video: Watchwww.youtube.com
So Fresh 10:05 PM - 11 September, 2018
Honestly not going back for a while 4 channels is wasted on me and the tr if i’m Honest to myself

instagram.com

I’m so happy with that setup and got phase on pre order to add to this which may make it even better although so happy as is.

The s9 is just perfect for me and with the dz’s mkii it’s like the controller I always wAnted. Two channels 10” motorised platers = :)

The vci was amazing and solid. And two channels as well just what I needed.

Fixed that problem. Made a video about it. Going strong under heavy abuse without issues. Definitely a Roland design flub, but simple enough to fix if you are willing to trash your warranty.

Video: Watchwww.youtube.com
James Falk 10:20 PM - 26 December, 2023
I never realized how bad my Pioneer SX, SX2, SX3 & SZ were from a fidelity perspective until I purchased my Rane Four recently.

Extremely noticeablel difference in audio quality. Like switching the radio dial form AM to FM.

I;ve yet to try the latest Pioneer Rev or Flex model, but WOW is the audio from a Rane Four something to behold!
DjSyndic8 10:50 PM - 26 December, 2023
Quote:
I never realized how bad my Pioneer SX, SX2, SX3 & SZ were from a fidelity perspective until I purchased my Rane Four recently.

Extremely noticeablel difference in audio quality. Like switching the radio dial form AM to FM.

I;ve yet to try the latest Pioneer Rev or Flex model, but WOW is the audio from a Rane Four something to behold!


I agree
Rane 4 is a newer controller with a better sound card.

I have the SX2 and SR2 to make the sound better I use a Yamaha external mixer and its night and day.

The main reason why I love my 2 controllers is the many buttons I can map for stems and other things,
DJ STU-C 11:20 PM - 26 December, 2023
I used to quite like the sound out of the SX2, in fact I found it had a better sound to it than a DJM-900 that was used at my old residency. It’s all personal though isn’t it, rather than truly quantifiable.
James Falk 11:39 PM - 26 December, 2023
I've nearly always using an external mixer when I spin, but not to improve signal. It's impossible to improve signal quality. All you're doing using the equalizer, which is something best left to a dedicated piece of hardware.

Spending $800 on a dbx DriveRack PA management system will offer some serious results, made even better if it's being fed a decent signal from your Rane Four.

I use a secondary mixer for different reasons:

1) The mic inputs are notoriously bad on dj controllers. Using a external mixer allows mics to go straight in & out of hardware designed for that purpose. In DJ mixers, the mic inputs are an afterthought by design teams.

2) I mix in the headphones using the cue/pan to balance each signal, then mix off solely the master headphone output once it's time to drop a track. Using an external mixer allows my dj mixer to be optimized for the highest level of south quality, never compressing or clipping the output stage. The constant habit is what me aware of how great the Rane Four audio quality is. It's like I own new headphones (I use Beats Studio Pro)

3) I can keep a better handle on clipping a speaker. I send 0db out of my performance mixer on its master out, sending a signal to an external mixer trimmed to 0db. I set the external master mix to zero, turn off the PFL/cue/monitor & can watch this mixer alll night never approaching unity volume as I bring that channel up/down as a gig progresses, so I never as much as soft clip whatever PA I'm playing on. Got into this habit working with mid to high level concert acts & often praised by audio engineers of my attention to gain structure.

4) In case of a controller failure (which has never happened) or me forgetting to bring a Pioneer power transformer (which certainly has...why Pioneer doesn't use IEC power cables & chooses a proprietary power cable is infuriating), I can patch in an aux source until the ussue is solved.
James Falk 11:48 PM - 26 December, 2023
Quote:
I used to quite like the sound out of the SX2, in fact I found it had a better sound to it than a DJM-900 that was used at my old residency. It’s all personal though isn’t it, rather than truly quantifiable.


I hardly think this is personal. A better sound card=better audio & the Rane Four offers excellent fidelity. Music after all should always be "music to your ears" & never noise.

It's most bothersome to put such effort into ones library, purchasing/playing lossless files, further emphasis into gain structure & then play on high end audio rigs, only to have it all sound like ass because of ones controller.

Are there worse controllers than Pioneers SX line? Of course! In the grand scheme of things however they are mediocre. You get what you pay for & the SX line has always been in the $1200-$1600 range. Spending $2700 on the Rane should certainly get one a significantly better audio card.

With that said, I look forward to trying the similarly priced Rev 7 & Flex 10 in the near future
DJ STU-C 10:12 AM - 27 December, 2023
Quote:
Quote:
I used to quite like the sound out of the SX2, in fact I found it had a better sound to it than a DJM-900 that was used at my old residency. It’s all personal though isn’t it, rather than truly quantifiable.


I hardly think this is personal. A better sound card=better audio & the Rane Four offers excellent fidelity. Music after all should always be "music to your ears" & never noise.

It's most bothersome to put such effort into ones library, purchasing/playing lossless files, further emphasis into gain structure & then play on high end audio rigs, only to have it all sound like ass because of ones controller.

Are there worse controllers than Pioneers SX line? Of course! In the grand scheme of things however they are mediocre. You get what you pay for & the SX line has always been in the $1200-$1600 range. Spending $2700 on the Rane should certainly get one a significantly better audio card.

With that said, I look forward to trying the similarly priced Rev 7 & Flex 10 in the near future


Like I said, I found the sound from the DDJ-SX2 to be more pleasing than the DJM-900 installed at the residency I used to hold, this was a large nightclub install using an RCF based system.

Of course it’s personal and not really quantifiable, for example you seem to be using ‘how much money did it cost’ as a benchmark for how good it sounds, quite a naive position to take. For all we know you might have undiagnosed hearing issues, perhaps caused by trying to mix in your headphones with those notoriously bass heavy Beats headphones.
Gjem1 4:08 AM - 28 December, 2023
I just love my XZ first batch produced. Best controller ever. No compromise. No problems with Serato, just pure joy.
vboyd666 10:02 PM - 2 January, 2024
Quote:
I just love my XZ first batch produced. Best controller ever. No compromise. No problems with Serato, just pure joy.


Ah, this made my day. @Gjem1. When the thread is talking about how my Honda feels cheap and doesn't sound good, you're like, I love my Lamborghini, best car ever. LOL.

First, I agree. The XZ is the best Pioneer controller on the market, hands down.

The SX1, 2, 3 was the defacto standard until the SZ1, 2 came out. Now it's the XZ with the FLX10/DDJ1000(SRT) close behind.

Second, like most things, you get what you pay for. Don't buy a $700 controller and complain it feels cheap and doesn't sound great. That's why you buy a $2000+ controller.
mixgoonie 10:59 PM - 2 January, 2024
Quote:
Quote:
I just love my XZ first batch produced. Best controller ever. No compromise. No problems with Serato, just pure joy.


Ah, this made my day. @Gjem1. When the thread is talking about how my Honda feels cheap and doesn't sound good, you're like, I love my Lamborghini, best car ever. LOL.

First, I agree. The XZ is the best Pioneer controller on the market, hands down.

The SX1, 2, 3 was the defacto standard until the SZ1, 2 came out. Now it's the XZ with the FLX10/DDJ1000(SRT) close behind.

Second, like most things, you get what you pay for. Don't buy a $700 controller and complain it feels cheap and doesn't sound great. That's why you buy a $2000+ controller.


Never had them but the Mixars Primo was known for their very good sound and did not cost that much. Same was for the mc7000 and 8000.

The question is maybe why you need a 2000 dollar controller with pioneer to have a good sound 😅.
Despo 11:24 PM - 2 January, 2024
I just want a Traktor s4 mk3 but for serato. That thing is super light and has motorized jogwheels which can act as turntables or as jogwheels depending on your preference.

The rev 7 and rane one are too heavy in comparison.

And I don't know about that Hercules thing, feels cheap.
DJ dVO 4:46 PM - 22 January, 2024
Quote:
I just want a Traktor s4 mk3 but for serato. That thing is super light and has motorized jogwheels which can act as turntables or as jogwheels depending on your preference.

The rev 7 and rane one are too heavy in comparison.

And I don't know about that Hercules thing, feels cheap.


Interesting alternative. I dislike the DC power input. That thing can be fall off.
Mr Wilks 8:58 PM - 24 January, 2024
I had a SX at launch and loved it but it sounded awful. As described above, like an AM radio compared to some other audio gear.

The SX2 was an improvement I hear but the first one used to give my ears fatigue every time I used it.

It’s totally subjective but I’ve never really liked the Pioneer DJ sound. Great gear but always feels like it should be much better for the price.
DJ dVO 1:49 PM - 27 January, 2024
I am still rocking on the beloved Vestax VCI-380. Looking for a replacement but I have yet to find a better controller that is in the same size range, layout, and functionalities, particularly the INPUTS and OUTPUTS connectors. To see a controller of this size, ruggedness to offer two mics inputs and XLR master out is almost none existent.