Serato DJ Pro General Discussion

Talk about Serato DJ Pro, expansion packs and supported hardware

Denon's NEW sc5000 Prime Single Deck Media Controller

Chino 6:58 AM - 29 November, 2016
NAMM 2017 is around the corner. Looks like Denon DJ will finally be unveiling a new media controller. Hopefully, Denon is listening to their customers by providing…

1. Direct Drive moving platter
2. Large High Res touch screen
3. Improved Engine software

We shall see...
deejdave 2:38 AM - 1 December, 2016
Yah looks promising audio-database.com LMAO
938MyDJ 2:55 AM - 1 December, 2016
You got me on this one, Dave!
Why did I even bother to click the link, LOL!
deejdave 3:05 AM - 1 December, 2016
HAHAHA :) Pretty safe to say it won't be called the SC-5000 though.
Chino 3:45 AM - 1 December, 2016
QUOTE: "In fact, hey, the schematics for the MPC live is still up there, on the government's website. and has been since the 10th:
apps.fcc.gov...

In fact, if you do the search right now, you can see that Denon is also coming out with a WLAN enabled DJ deck called the SC5000 Prime. It's ID is Y4O-JP07."

Here is the ID for the new SC5000 media controller and info on the new MPC LIVE.
Chino 3:48 AM - 1 December, 2016
Check this out…..

www.sonicstate.com
deejdave 3:50 AM - 1 December, 2016
WOW that thing is SOOO similar to MPC touch indeed on the outside of course.
Chino 4:01 AM - 1 December, 2016
Yes it does resemble the MPC Touch. I like that it's a nice standalone, portable option in comparison to my Roland MV8800.
Chino 4:09 AM - 1 December, 2016
Now all I have to say about the Denon SC5000 is that Denon (inMusic) BETTER come with their GUNS BLAZIN' if they have any hope of competing with Pioneer!! They are aiming high with their #changeyourrider slogan. IMHO Denon has always been successful with the mobile jocks due to their cd players in the early 90s.
the SOUNDINSURGENT 5:57 AM - 1 December, 2016
I don't really think Denons hardware has a problem competing with Pioneers, it's that damn music management software Engine that's always been they're biggest problem in my opinion.

I own some Denon equipment, MC 4000 and 2 sets of Denon HS5500's.

Both are and have been solid.

The 5500's are what Denon seriously needs to revamp. Those decks were way ahead of their time when the first came out.

I still use my 5500's most weekends because they are so versatile 😜
deejdave 1:59 PM - 1 December, 2016
Support by the actual software itself is crucial as well. These could be the greates thing on the planet yet if they are not HID compatible with serato they probably will do just as good as prior denon gear in terms of sales and usage.
Chino 2:31 PM - 1 December, 2016
Quote:
if they are not HID compatible with serato they probably will do just as good as prior denon gear in terms of sales and usage


At this stage of the game, I hope Denon recognizes that Serato HID support is a given! My 3900s have it & I expect it on these new media controllers as well!!
deejdave 2:41 PM - 1 December, 2016
Your 3900's have HID support with serato? I think they have hybrid support in regard to Serato.
deejdave 2:42 PM - 1 December, 2016
deejdave 2:42 PM - 1 December, 2016
Or did they finally add it?
Chino 2:47 PM - 1 December, 2016
Your right. I meant Hybrid support for Serato. It works really well so I certainly hope Denon keeps that feature on the new decks.
deejdave 4:44 PM - 1 December, 2016
Yeah they don't really need any licensing or collating for hybrid so I'm sure they will.
Djkom 3:51 PM - 13 December, 2016
DJ Barticus 9:54 PM - 13 December, 2016
hope they go for serato HID support, and a moving platter. now that the NX2s have HID that's looking like a good move.
deejdave 1:26 AM - 14 December, 2016
I don't think the NXS2's being HID compatible with SDJ has anything to do with the new Denon players anymore than previous Pioneer CDJ's did with previous Denon players. Furthermore if there is any substance to the above post they are in fact static (non moving) platters on the new Denon unit.
deejdave 1:59 AM - 14 December, 2016
TBH I wouldn't put too much into that post anyways after researching source a bit more. Don't lose hope.
Chino 9:24 PM - 5 January, 2017
Below is the pic of the new Denon SC5000 Prime. SHOUT OUT to DJ KOM for finding and posting it!!

nsm08.casimages.com

Btw, NO direct drive moving platters! : (
Jawatricks 5:23 PM - 6 January, 2017
djworx.com

Better pic if I may ;) that stuff look nice!
Chino 5:58 PM - 6 January, 2017
I'm interested to hear everyone's thoughts on this new media controller. Do you see this as a viable alternative to Pioneer's CDJs? Is anyone including these on their riders for 2017? Do you prefer the static platters or direct drive moving platters? What price point will make this media player a definite buy?
popnwave 7:36 PM - 6 January, 2017
I think it looks cool, it will win some users at a lower price point and if they and Serato add HID support at least, I would be interested. If there isn't HID support, it's no better than the Pioneer situation and I'd pass.
938MyDJ 7:44 PM - 6 January, 2017
So the next questions are...

Is a new version of SDJ 1.9.6 coming out soon?
Or is it a new version of Denon's Engine that is to be expected?
Chino 7:58 PM - 6 January, 2017
^^^
Quote:
s a new version of SDJ 1.9.6 coming out soon?
Or is it a new version of Denon's Engine that is to be expected?


Probably…. the answer is YES to both questions. Engine desperately needs a solid revamp. It's useful as an emergency back-up in case of computer failure but I wouldn't do a 4-5 hour gig with it. inMusic(Denon, Akai) is great at making hardware but their software has LOTS of areas of opportunity for improvements!!
Chino 9:49 PM - 6 January, 2017
QUOTE:Lou Paris We have more Infos next week - or today: Here some more Infos to the new Denon Products: Beside the SC5000 there is also the new 4-channel Clubmixer Denon X1800 which fits exactly in this so called new "Prime" Line of Denon. There will be a totally new constructed Engine Software so called "Engine Prime" . Further Feateres of the SC5000: Beatgrid and Harmonic Analyze in Realtime without Preperation. Intelligent Searchfunction for Songs on the 7-inch Touchscreen where we find a full Querzt Touch Keyboard. The Jog is 8 Inch and Aluminiumplated with Artwork Screens. The Jog Settings can be customized. Also there will be an additional Performance Layer to use a second virtual Deck on the same Player which has his own RCA-Connector to the Mixer!!! The Player is able to Play also FLAC, ALAC and Wave. 3 USB Connectors + SD. Network Connection to sync up to 4 Players. recommended Price 2140 Euro MB Streetprice could end up around 16-1800. Then we have the new Mixer X1800 Prime: The new Mixer offers 2 USB Soundcards with 24card/96khz. On this 4 Channel Club Mixer we have a dedicated so called "Sweep-Effekt" Section compareable to Pioneers "harmonic fx" this will add 6 Effects to each channel: Dub, Echo, Noise , Disortion, Reverb. you can select between Calssic and Isolation EQ Settings with global Lo/Hi-Pass Resonance Control. Also Offerd is Send/Return for Effects. Main Effect Unit with OLED-Display and 12 Effects, Touchstrip for quantize and Rhythmbased Effects, All can be synced in Time and Beatgrids with the SC5000 using the new Enginge-Connect Protocol. Recommended Price also 2140 Euro release for both 1st Quarter 2017 (latest March). For me these are Game Changers. Not to forget about the new Turntable Prime VL12 which is a 100% own Denon Development. very Special new Isolation Feet to kill any Resonance. Abjustable Torque up to 5Kg. Pitch 8-50%. Full Metal Body. Hidden Cables in Battle Position. What is a nice Gimmick will be the individual RGB Illumination of the Platter which can be adjusted in Brightness and Colour. The Platter has a new devolped Feel so called "Easy Grip Break" The Tonearm has a new "Lock or rest" Feature. electronical isolated Engine to reduce noise in the signal. Listprice 950 Euro.
Chino 9:51 PM - 6 January, 2017
^^^ I found this info on the Public Denon Facebook page. It seems that I was WAAAY off about price…. these will cost a nice bit of $$$
Ragman 10:54 PM - 6 January, 2017
Quote:
^^^ I found this info on the Public Denon Facebook page. It seems that I was WAAAY off about price…. these will cost a nice bit of $$$

They f'd up not making it an active platter. Whether they like it or not, that is their niche.
deejdave 11:39 PM - 6 January, 2017
I disagree. Perhaps trying to be a main contender and less of a niche. Sticking to one idea only is probably the fastest way to ensure they remain where they are and continue pioneers dominance. They at least have a chance. Maybe rack up some real numbers for a change and use that money to show some love to the "niche" dj's.
Ragman 5:18 AM - 8 January, 2017
I disagree with your disagree. ;-) They will in no way impede on Pioneer's strangle hold on the CDJ market with this iteration. But time will tell all (much like the SC2900).
deejdave 6:35 AM - 8 January, 2017
Time will tell indeed but one thing is 100% certain. This is absolutely what Denon is going for. "Change Your Rider" is a pretty clear statement.
Chino 6:08 AM - 9 January, 2017
I just saw a pic of the new Denon x1800 Prime mixer. It's def a nice looking 4 channel mixer. I hope it has SDJ native support and RANE quality magnetic faders. If it does then the x1800 will be my next mixer purchase.
Chino 6:13 AM - 9 January, 2017
Pic is in the link below:

www.digitaljockey.it
Chino 6:16 AM - 9 January, 2017
MUCH better pic & description…

djbooth.net
Jawatricks 5:13 PM - 9 January, 2017
Here we go!

denondj.com
deejayayup 10:07 PM - 9 January, 2017
Looks very nice but #ChangeYourRider seems extremely ambitious.
Ragman 10:33 PM - 9 January, 2017
Quote:
Here we go!

denondj.com

Their site is down right now.
deejdave 10:34 PM - 9 January, 2017
deejdave 10:34 PM - 9 January, 2017
Looks like they are going after Serato DJ customers rather than working WITH Serato..........
Chino 11:23 PM - 9 January, 2017
I hope Denon makes a direct drive moving platter version with native SDJ HID support. I don't mind the price as long as it does what I need. I would even settle for the Midi Hydrid SDJ support like it's found in the 3900s.

The Engine software has been given a VAST over haul. I'm looking forward to trying Engine Prime on my MCx8000.
Ragman 3:57 AM - 10 January, 2017
Ok the SC5000 Prime deck looks to be pretty badass. At least from the promo video.
Chino 4:20 AM - 10 January, 2017
^^^ They do LOOK nice but I have servere reservations about DENON DJ's business practices. MCx8000 users won't be able to use the new Engine Prime software on their devices. The MCx8000 is not even a year old and the current version of Engine (on the MCx8000) needs ALOT of work.

If I can't trust a company to fix software that is only a year old then how can I trust that Denon will continue supporting the new Prime series of media players? Unfortunately, I'm beginning to loose faith in the new Denon DJ.

The SC5000 Prime media players don't have direct drive platters. That is what helped make Denon a great cd player/controller in the first place! That is disappointing to say the least!!!
deejdave 5:18 AM - 10 January, 2017
Quote:
The Engine software has been given a VAST over haul. I'm looking forward to trying Engine Prime on my MCx8000.

Quote:
MCx8000 users won't be able to use the new Engine Prime software on their devices.

Quote:
Denon a great cd player/controller in the first place! That is disappointing to say the least!!!

Agreed but I think they are trying to make them commonly used players now. I have a strong feeling they will get back to their roots with the revenue gained from their current moves.
Chino 5:55 AM - 10 January, 2017
Quote:
have a strong feeling they will get back to their roots with the revenue gained from their current moves.


I hope your right! Im now just looking forward to the MPC Live/MPC X release. Akai needs to get the 2.0 software right!!! It seems like all the companies under inMusic struggle to put out stable, reliable software. Maybe inMusic needs to invest in better developers?
popnwave 3:49 PM - 10 January, 2017
"Controller mode for Serato DJ" - now I'm reallly interested.
deejdave 11:16 PM - 10 January, 2017
You saw that "controller mode" thing too huh? GOOD STUFF indeed!
the SOUNDINSURGENT 5:36 AM - 12 January, 2017
Where can I download this Prime Engine software??

I can't find any download links for it anywhere or my ass is blind and have missed it??
577er 6:39 AM - 12 January, 2017
This looks promising. Fingers crossed it's solid and gives pioneer some competition.
deejayayup 1:18 PM - 12 January, 2017
I just watched Mojaxx's review. This looks incredible!

Watchwww.youtube.com
Chino 4:43 PM - 12 January, 2017
^^^ Nice! Now add a direct drive moving platter and continue support for the Engine software and I just might buy one….

Although, IF Denon DJ doesn't continue support on the Engine software platform for the MCx8000 I just might sell the controller and buy a SC5000 Prime. I will wait to see Denon's next move with the MCx8000.
blackavenger 5:12 PM - 12 January, 2017
I'm so impressed by this new Denon player that I may end up selling my recently purchased Nexus 2s to get a pair. However, I'm not sure how I feel about the X1800. Might still keep the Nexus 2 mixer. Then again, having everything networked directly from the mixer is pretty nice.

It's all down to Engine Prime......is it gonna' be up to snuff?
Chino 6:00 PM - 12 January, 2017
"Alpha track" dual layer mode
7inch high res touch screen
adjustable platter weight & adjustable brake
velocity sensitive pads
standalone usb playback
Updated Engine Prime...

I might need to skip paying my mortgage & maybe sell a kidney (lol) to buy it. NAMM always makes me broke!!

Check this out….Watchwww.youtube.com
Joe Moore 8:01 PM - 12 January, 2017
Quote:
I'm so impressed by this new Denon player that I may end up selling my recently purchased Nexus 2s to get a pair. However, I'm not sure how I feel about the X1800. Might still keep the Nexus 2 mixer. Then again, having everything networked directly from the mixer is pretty nice.

It's all down to Engine Prime......is it gonna' be up to snuff?

I'm thinking the same thing. The SC5000 looks like a serious contender and I really like the things that set it apart from the 2000NXS2 (high-framerate touchscreen, dedicated beat jump buttons, dual layer, USB port placement, etc).

Mojaxx's first look video looks promising. I'm hesitant about Engine Prime too, would probably rather use it in 'controller mode' with Serato DJ, but I'm willing to give it a shot.

Putting the SC5000 next to my DJM-S9 mixer is gonna feel redundant, since the S9 has a lot of the same track controls (pads, track selection, looping, etc.). I also like the idea of everything linking up to a compatible mixer (X1800) but I just love the S9 so much.
Rebelguy 8:46 PM - 12 January, 2017
The guitar center video seemed way more informative the mojaxx's video. I'm almost sold even though I have sworn myself to never buy another Denon product.
blackavenger 8:58 PM - 12 January, 2017
I don't think Denon are 'effing around w' this player. I think it's going to get unparalleled support in comparison to their past products. I mean, they are going after Pioneer for the top spot. "Change Your Rider".....they are going to have to bring their 'A Game' if they hope to accomplish that.

Other than the lack of a CD drive, this thing blows the Pioneer kit away in every respect.
Joe Moore 9:00 PM - 12 January, 2017
Here is the Guitar Center video about the Denon SC5000 -
youtu.be
Ragman 10:05 PM - 12 January, 2017
Joe, Chino already posted this link right above you.
the SOUNDINSURGENT 10:09 PM - 12 January, 2017
This battle is gonna come down to Prime Engine!!

If that shit fails, it's a wrap!
Chino 11:34 PM - 12 January, 2017
Quote:
This battle is gonna come down to Prime Engine!!


I agree. Engine on the MCx8000 still needs work. Denon has yet to implement much needed features and resolve outstanding bugs. Denon needs to PROVE it can develop and maintain a STABLE, RELIABLE software!! Software has always been Denon's weakness.
Ragman 3:08 AM - 13 January, 2017
Quote:
Quote:
This battle is gonna come down to Prime Engine!!


I agree. Engine on the MCx8000 still needs work. Denon has yet to implement much needed features and resolve outstanding bugs. Denon needs to PROVE it can develop and maintain a STABLE, RELIABLE software!! Software has always been Denon's weakness.

Agreed. With both of you.
AlxRyde 6:09 AM - 14 January, 2017
Watchwww.youtube.com

I'm so piqued and confused by this...so Engine Prime now supports, if I heard in the video correctly, linking to Serato DJ libraries? And that pitch bend seems unusually reminiscent of PnT DJ. It seems like Engine Prime isn't really designed as a performance software, just a prep software for Engine compatible players.

All the above makes me beg the question, down low, is this actually a sort of "SeratoDJ embedded deck"? Is the impossible real?
Chino 1:39 PM - 14 January, 2017
This is Denon's version of an 'Engine Prime' embedded deck. It also has the added flexibility of a 'Serato DJ control' function.
Demonstr8 2:33 AM - 20 January, 2017
$1,900 for the media player, $1,900 for the mixer, $900 for the turntable...yeah, they definitely aren't playing around
Chino 11:56 PM - 20 January, 2017
This deck looks nice BUT I'm still in shell shock over the Engine software on the MCx8000. I don't think I will be an early adopter this time around. Hopefully with time, Denon will prove that Engine Prime is stable and reliable.
Ragman 12:29 AM - 21 January, 2017
I refuse to believe they are just gonna let that crappy version of Engine exist while the better Engine software is only exclusive for the Prime hardware. That would be some cold-blooded sh*t considering the 8000 is still considered a newish controller.
deejdave 12:31 AM - 21 January, 2017
Quote:
I refuse to believe they are just gonna let that crappy version of Engine exist while the better Engine software is only exclusive for the Prime hardware. That would be some cold-blooded sh*t considering the 8000 is still considered a newish controller.

Agreed
Chino 1:22 AM - 21 January, 2017
Quote:
I refuse to believe they are just gonna let that crappy version of Engine exist while the better Engine software is only exclusive for the Prime hardware. That would be some cold-blooded sh*t considering the 8000 is still considered a newish controller.


Unfortunately, I would not be surprised if inMusic (Denon DJ, Akai) does exactly that. I've been burnt before by their poorly implemented, half-baked software (YES, I'm talking about the MPC Renaissance software!) I do have hope but little faith in them.
popnwave 2:37 AM - 21 January, 2017
As a video DJ, I'll never worry about using Engine as is, so no heartburn over that.
stratoferris 2:48 AM - 21 January, 2017
Engine software is great is you buy the Sc5000...but having a pair of them makes using Serato a bit redundant and useless? Like having a pair of Cdj2000 and using serato/Traktor....whats the point? Expensive Midi controllers??? A lower priced MC7000 would be ideal! $899 Did anyone pick get a MC7000 yet?
blackavenger 11:37 PM - 11 February, 2017
This is kinda' neat. Apparently, whichever color you have assigned to the jog wheel's ring will be mirrored on the cue button for that channel on the X1800 when using "Engine Connect". I imagine this will be especially useful when using only two decks to control four tunes.

www.imsmy.com
Ragman 6:06 AM - 12 February, 2017
@blackavenger
What do you think about the Prime setup so far?
blackavenger 9:46 PM - 13 February, 2017
Oh, I haven't been given a test set. I've been scouring the net looking for info on them just like anyone else who is interested in these units would do. That image was taken from someone who I presume does have a test set and they posted that bit about the headphone cue buttons matching the jogwheel ring's color. If you want to know my opinion based on what I've learned thus far........

I wish they had priced them just a bit cheaper....say, $1,600 (US). Other than that, I think they are everything I wish Pioneer had done on the Nexus players, but didn't. I think they are effin' fantastic!!

Metal Body & Jogwheel
Glass/Multi-touch Display w' tablet like (inertia) touch features
Multi-Core Processor (capable of analyzing/writing metadata on the fly)
Built-In Pad Section
Physical Beat Jump Buttons
Three USB 3.0 Ports as well as an SD slot
Dual Layer/Dual Outputs (RCA & Digital)

Everyone knows damn well that if these units had a Pioneer label on them peeps would be losing their minds! It's only because they bear a Denon label that these are not getting the attention that they deserve. They are everything I have been waiting for. A truly standalone unit that frees you from the laptop, yet offers nearly everything that programs like Serato/Traktor have. Plus they said that they plan to add more features as time goes on.

If the internal software holds up and they manage to add Traktor Scratch certification along w' the already announced Serato support, I say Denon have a winner w' this one. If they could somehow get it to read Rekordbox metadata they would own the industry within a couple years. I know that's a bold statement, but this thing blows every comparable piece of gear Pioneer currently has away.

I can't wait to test them out for myself.
If they live up to the hype, my Nexus 2 setup is going on Fleabay!!
Ragman 2:48 PM - 14 February, 2017
Well said and I agree with your entire comment.
Reticuli 6:57 PM - 21 February, 2017
No Serato HID support that I'm aware of, but it's not like the CDJ2000 is fully supporting Serato, as you still have to use either the Serato-licensed mixer or your own Serato box. What the Denons do is let you utilize your Serato library, either exported onto a flash drive or by offloading the tracks onto the decks using Link from a computer using Engine Prime. There's little point to even having Serato open and using MIDI/HID (or god forbid, hybrid timecode) in such a case. If your laptop is in the system, the appropriate role for it with the Prime system is as a giant crate. I hope they allow you to at least hide the BPM readout. I'd zoom the waveform way out and keep the BPM in the background so the smart loops can do their thing without me being distracted by it.
popnwave 7:20 PM - 21 February, 2017
Quote:
No Serato HID support that I'm aware of, but it's not like the CDJ2000 is fully supporting Serato, as you still have to use either the Serato-licensed mixer or your own Serato box. What the Denons do is let you utilize your Serato library, either exported onto a flash drive or by offloading the tracks onto the decks using Link from a computer using Engine Prime. There's little point to even having Serato open and using MIDI/HID (or god forbid, hybrid timecode) in such a case. If your laptop is in the system, the appropriate role for it with the Prime system is as a giant crate. I hope they allow you to at least hide the BPM readout. I'd zoom the waveform way out and keep the BPM in the background so the smart loops can do their thing without me being distracted by it.


It says on their splash page that Serato DJ support is coming.. a "controller" mode so if that's not HID I am not sure what is?
Reticuli 7:32 PM - 21 February, 2017
Which splash page? I haven't heard that before and it's not on this main page:

www.denondj.com

When they talk about Serato here, they're talking about utilizing your Serato library and meta information, not full HID+sound card support/licensing for Serato. I realize full HID/MIDI/soundcard support would placate the masses and make some people happy, though. Personally, I think it would be a mistake, because strategically they want to help lure Serato users with library support while weaning them off of running DJ software on their laptop. If they do add it, I wonder if it will be included free or as some kind of "expansion". If indeed Denon DJ has not actually made such a press release yet, there's nothing preventing it except licensing fees down the road, and InMusic certainly has the wallet for it. But again, these players can do everything Serato DJ can do and more, and can pull tracks out of the user's Serato library either off a flash drive or off a laptop and arguably has more processing power in just one player than many DJ's laptops.
Reticuli 7:40 PM - 21 February, 2017
"Hey Dave,
Ross from Denon DJ. While we offer import from Serato and iTunes, we do have a controller mode that is compatible with Serato/Traktor coming soon."

From another forum. It doesn't sound like full Serato licensing to me, but if you already use Serato than you probably already have that covered. I do not think it will be as popular as people thing, though, once they see the capabilities of these units.

Oh, and this just in...

www.facebook.com
deejdave 7:44 PM - 21 February, 2017
They have talked about both. Don't think it will be HID but MIdi instead which is no big deal. At least it is not a hybrid thing like the old units. They will also be able to use the serato crates cue points etc via inbuilt engine but trust this will not be more capable than using the software. More convenient and more reliable? Maybe but no way it is more capable.
deejdave 7:44 PM - 21 February, 2017
And BTW I was that "Dave" from the post above me.
popnwave 7:54 PM - 21 February, 2017
LOL at Oakenfold playing in the Himalayas..
Reticuli 7:56 PM - 21 February, 2017
Ah.

I assume it will be HID if they do implement it, since basic MIDI would not utilize the screen. We will see if they do the actual licensing/soundcard route. This is all such an afterthought, though, and really pointless. I don't think we're going to see many people buying these to use as controllers, rather more of just a "why can't it do blah blah blah after I paid this much?!" kind of argument.
Reticuli 8:00 PM - 21 February, 2017
Quote:
LOL at Oakenfold playing in the Himalayas..


Hah hah, didn't catch that. Awesome. I know some Chinese students who went up to the first (lower) base camp. It's a major tourist spot now. I don't even think they had to walk much to get to it.
deejdave 3:29 AM - 22 February, 2017
Quote:
Ah.

I assume it will be HID if they do implement it, since basic MIDI would not utilize the screen. We will see if they do the actual licensing/soundcard route. This is all such an afterthought, though, and really pointless. I don't think we're going to see many people buying these to use as controllers, rather more of just a "why can't it do blah blah blah after I paid this much?!" kind of argument.

HID has NOTHING to do with the screen. It has to do with the platter etc. The MCX8000 is MIDI and uses the screen, The NV, & NVII are MIDI only & use screens. I am not 100% sure we are on the same page here.


FYI a mouse and keyboard uses HID too ;)

blog.proaudiostar.com
Reticuli 4:16 AM - 22 February, 2017
Quote:
Quote:
Ah.

I assume it will be HID if they do implement it, since basic MIDI would not utilize the screen. We will see if they do the actual licensing/soundcard route. This is all such an afterthought, though, and really pointless. I don't think we're going to see many people buying these to use as controllers, rather more of just a "why can't it do blah blah blah after I paid this much?!" kind of argument.

HID has NOTHING to do with the screen. It has to do with the platter etc. The MCX8000 is MIDI and uses the screen, The NV, & NVII are MIDI only & use screens. I am not 100% sure we are on the same page here.

FYI a mouse and keyboard uses HID too ;)

blog.proaudiostar.com


HID is more appropriate to joysticks, keyboards, mice, etc, because of the memory usage and latency, but for most DJ controller stuff (jog, pitch faders, rotaries, etc) MIDI can do most of the same things with only slightly more limitation. I'm not aware of any way to implement complicated display protocol from the computer back to the controller using just MIDI, though. If you have contrary information to that, please educate me.
Reticuli 4:17 AM - 22 February, 2017
The big thing on those Numark products, by the way, is the Serato DJ licenses. I don't know why Numark would attempt to get display info from Serato onto the controller using just MIDI when HID would be far easier to achieve that.
Reticuli 4:26 AM - 22 February, 2017
I probably should have mentioned, the display info gets onto Pioneers, Denons, and Geminis by way of HID from the computer. I have no idea how Numark does it, but like I said, if they paid for the Serato DJ license, they'd be re-inventing the wheel trying to get all the track names and waveform stuff onto the display using MIDI. If they figured out a way to do it, more power to them, but I've never heard of that before and would be confused as to why they'd even try HID is so good at high throughput bi-directional stuff like that.
Reticuli 4:44 AM - 22 February, 2017
I'm also curious if Serato has associated fees with getting just HID support if a full license to utilize the soundcard in the device is not paid for. Pioneer, for instance, went the HID route on the CDJ2000s without doing the full license, leaving the license dealt with on the special Serato edition of the mixer. Did that cost Pioneer just to get the plug & play and HID support for the display? I assume there is not an HID fee for VDJ, but not sure for Serato or Traktor if HID support costs the controller manufacturer. I know VDJ, Traktor, Deckadance, and most of the non-Seratos out there do not have license requirements to use the soundcard in a given device. They'll work with anything. Serato seems to use the soundcard compatibility thing as an ownership dongle, like the old Pro Tools USB dongle.
DJ Barticus 5:11 AM - 22 February, 2017
question about the USB ports in the back of the union. can they be used as a USB hub? say you have extra MIDI controllers and want to use a pair of these with serato?
Reticuli 5:16 AM - 22 February, 2017
Quote:
question about the USB ports in the back of the union. can they be used as a USB hub? say you have extra MIDI controllers and want to use a pair of these with serato?


Absolutely cannot be used as a USB hub on the back of the SC5000, but if you just wanted to use a spare one to power something else (like a hard drive that has an extra USB for power) then you could do that.
DJ Barticus 6:08 AM - 22 February, 2017
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question about the USB ports in the back of the UNIT (edit). can they be used as a USB hub? say you have extra MIDI controllers and want to use a pair of these with serato?


Absolutely cannot be used as a USB hub on the back of the SC5000, but if you just wanted to use a spare one to power something else (like a hard drive that has an extra USB for power) then you could do that.


thanks for the info...DJworx story said, "It has a USB hub, which really should be a standard feature on everything these days. EVERYTHING" but i didn't see the usb hub claim anywhere else.
Reticuli 6:24 AM - 22 February, 2017
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question about the USB ports in the back of the UNIT (edit). can they be used as a USB hub? say you have extra MIDI controllers and want to use a pair of these with serato?


Absolutely cannot be used as a USB hub on the back of the SC5000, but if you just wanted to use a spare one to power something else (like a hard drive that has an extra USB for power) then you could do that.


thanks for the info...DJworx story said, "It has a USB hub, which really should be a standard feature on everything these days. EVERYTHING" but i didn't see the usb hub claim anywhere else.


I think they're confused. There's an ethernet hub on the back of the mixer. On the back of the player, those are USB ports for USB drives and power. If you plug the USB B to a computer, I am fairly certain it's just going to see the player and not any other devices connected to the USB As. I could be wrong, but I would not take DJworx as being definitive on this and I've never seen any controller/player with multiple USB As that are used for USB drives somehow doubling as a USB hub. In fact, if you were to wire them together as a hub internally, usually the player would be totally unable to see the actual USB drives anymore. In other words, the drives have to be connected directly to those dedicated ports, which is why it's nice to have more than one, especially when there's something like Alpha dual deck/outputs stuff. Ditto if you tried to put a USB hub between the USB A and a drive, again, which is why they have multiple USB As.
Reticuli 6:27 AM - 22 February, 2017
On that last sentence, I mean "ditto" in terms of connecting a USB hub to one of those dedicated drive-reading USB As making that port useless (usually) for actually reading a drive through it.
Ragman 3:07 PM - 22 February, 2017
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question about the USB ports in the back of the UNIT (edit). can they be used as a USB hub? say you have extra MIDI controllers and want to use a pair of these with serato?


Absolutely cannot be used as a USB hub on the back of the SC5000, but if you just wanted to use a spare one to power something else (like a hard drive that has an extra USB for power) then you could do that.


thanks for the info...DJworx story said, "It has a USB hub, which really should be a standard feature on everything these days. EVERYTHING" but i didn't see the usb hub claim anywhere else.

The SC5000 deck has a 3 USB Port Hub. Port 1 is in the front and Ports 2/3 are in the back. But they cannot be used for MIDI. However it is a USB Hub.
Reticuli 5:34 PM - 22 February, 2017
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question about the USB ports in the back of the UNIT (edit). can they be used as a USB hub? say you have extra MIDI controllers and want to use a pair of these with serato?


Absolutely cannot be used as a USB hub on the back of the SC5000, but if you just wanted to use a spare one to power something else (like a hard drive that has an extra USB for power) then you could do that.


thanks for the info...DJworx story said, "It has a USB hub, which really should be a standard feature on everything these days. EVERYTHING" but i didn't see the usb hub claim anywhere else.

The SC5000 deck has a 3 USB Port Hub. Port 1 is in the front and Ports 2/3 are in the back. But they cannot be used for MIDI. However it is a USB Hub.


So you're saying the computer connected to the USB B port can see devices connected to the USB A ports? Because if it can't, it's not a hub. Are you also saying the sc5000 USB A ports can have hubs connected to them and the player still see drives through the hub? Because if it can't, it's not a hub. Just because it has multiple USB A ports for drives and power does not make it a hub.
Reticuli 6:29 PM - 22 February, 2017
There is actually a third possibility regarding the USB hub issue that I just realized...

If the Denon SC5000 is basically just a fully re-programmable touch computer with an HID/MIDI controller built around it, the USB ports *could* hypothetically be wired electrically as just a unified hub on a single USB 3.0 bus. So technically one could call it a hub if that were the case. You could test for this by connecting a USB hub to one of the USB A ports on it and see if the SC5000 can see drives all connected to that external hub. If it can, then those ports are wired as a hub on one bus. If that were the case, however, it would still be EXTREMELY UNLIKELY that a laptop connected to the USB B port would be able to see devices connected to the USB A ports. So for all intents and purposes, it would still probably not be a usable USB hub separate from the SC5000's own drive reading ability, which is what the poster was asking. I still think it's unlikely to technically even be wired as hub even if it can't be used by the laptop as such, however, because 1) no other media players that I'm aware of have ever done that before (Numark, Denon, Pioneer, Hanpins in the various brandings, etc), and 2) they did put what appear to be multiple USB ports on them precisely because it's got more than two outputs and drive-reading USB As on media players traditionally can't see drives on a hub -- they have to be connected directly; hence the utility of building multiple direct drive-reading ports since you can't just add a hub and get more drives on one player. That said, the SC5000 is uncharted waters in a variety of ways, so it is possible I am wrong.
SBDJ 8:38 PM - 22 February, 2017
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I'm not aware of any way to implement complicated display protocol from the computer back to the controller using just MIDI, though. If you have contrary information to that, please educate me.


You absolutely can carry the display information over MIDI, it is indeed how the Numark/Denon screens operate - they use sysex.
Reticuli 8:43 PM - 22 February, 2017
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I'm not aware of any way to implement complicated display protocol from the computer back to the controller using just MIDI, though. If you have contrary information to that, please educate me.


You absolutely can carry the display information over MIDI, it is indeed how the Numark/Denon screens operate - they use sysex.


And the sysex queries are not embedded in HID? That's pretty amazing.
Ragman 10:59 PM - 22 February, 2017
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question about the USB ports in the back of the UNIT (edit). can they be used as a USB hub? say you have extra MIDI controllers and want to use a pair of these with serato?


Absolutely cannot be used as a USB hub on the back of the SC5000, but if you just wanted to use a spare one to power something else (like a hard drive that has an extra USB for power) then you could do that.


thanks for the info...DJworx story said, "It has a USB hub, which really should be a standard feature on everything these days. EVERYTHING" but i didn't see the usb hub claim anywhere else.

The SC5000 deck has a 3 USB Port Hub. Port 1 is in the front and Ports 2/3 are in the back. But they cannot be used for MIDI. However it is a USB Hub.


So you're saying the computer connected to the USB B port can see devices connected to the USB A ports? Because if it can't, it's not a hub. Are you also saying the sc5000 USB A ports can have hubs connected to them and the player still see drives through the hub? Because if it can't, it's not a hub. Just because it has multiple USB A ports for drives and power does not make it a hub.

It all depends on the circuitry inside the unit. If all USB ports have separate circuitry then technically you're correct, it's not a hub. However if all three share the same circuitry, that's a USB Hub. That's a question for Denon to answer, but it is being reported as a hub.
Ragman 11:03 PM - 22 February, 2017
The way ports 2 and 3 are stacked, I could see that being the Hub, but port 1 is on the front and is probably not apart of their circuitry. However until I see a schematic it's just an educational guess at this point.
DJ Barticus 11:06 PM - 22 February, 2017
this thread is lit, we all need answers...our credit cards are waiting
DJ Barticus 12:42 AM - 23 February, 2017
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The way ports 2 and 3 are stacked, I could see that being the Hub, but port 1 is on the front and is probably not apart of their circuitry. However until I see a schematic it's just an educational guess at this point.


makes sense, i think the front is USB 3.0 and the rear pair are USB 2.0
DJNickieK 7:18 PM - 23 February, 2017
all i'm saying is...
inMusic owns Denon, Rane and Numark.
so i'm hoping for utilization of the screens with serato,
and also hoping for plug and play license with serato as well.
And also... I believe it will be a true USB hub, given the fact that the Numark dashboard acts as a hub (i.e. DDJ SZ into Dashboard, Dashboard into computer. computer recognizes both)
I don't see why all of that isn't possible given their portfolio.

Very excited to see these actually implemented.
Reticuli 7:36 PM - 23 February, 2017
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all i'm saying is...
inMusic owns Denon, Rane and Numark.
so i'm hoping for utilization of the screens with serato,
and also hoping for plug and play license with serato as well.
And also... I believe it will be a true USB hub, given the fact that the Numark dashboard acts as a hub (i.e. DDJ SZ into Dashboard, Dashboard into computer. computer recognizes both)
I don't see why all of that isn't possible given their portfolio.

Very excited to see these actually implemented.


Because the SC5000 is a controller/computer itself and those ports are reading drives. Either its wired electrically as a hub because it's basically just a big touch computer+controller or it's not even wired as a hub and all those ports are independent. The latter is how Pioneer, Denon (before InMusic), Hanpin, and Gemini all do it. If it's the former (technical definition of a hub), it's basically academic, since the computer wouldn't be able to see any devices connected anyway and it wouldn't be usable as a hub on your laptop. I don't know how you get around that. I also don't see what the big deal is. I can get a good USB hub for like $10 and ADJ even has a power strip now with one built in.
Reticuli 7:37 PM - 23 February, 2017
it's
DJNickieK 7:41 PM - 23 February, 2017
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all i'm saying is...
inMusic owns Denon, Rane and Numark.
so i'm hoping for utilization of the screens with serato,
and also hoping for plug and play license with serato as well.
And also... I believe it will be a true USB hub, given the fact that the Numark dashboard acts as a hub (i.e. DDJ SZ into Dashboard, Dashboard into computer. computer recognizes both)
I don't see why all of that isn't possible given their portfolio.

Very excited to see these actually implemented.


Because the SC5000 is a controller/computer itself and those ports are reading drives. Either its wired electrically as a hub because it's basically just a big touch computer+controller or it's not even wired as a hub and all those ports are independent. The latter is how Pioneer, Denon (before InMusic), Hanpin, and Gemini all do it. If it's the former (technical definition of a hub), it's basically academic, since the computer wouldn't be able to see any devices connected anyway and it wouldn't be usable as a hub on your laptop. I don't know how you get around that. I also don't see what the big deal is. I can get a good USB hub for like $10 and ADJ even has a power strip now with one built in.


Yeah I saw that one too. Looks pretty cool... idk if it's $80 cool though! haha
Not truly necessary to your point that you could simply get a powered hub for $10, however it would be nice, that's all.
blackavenger 5:34 PM - 24 February, 2017
So it appears that Denon just got their first two endorsers for the SC-5000 decks. It's just a shame that they were only able to swing these two dinosaurs. They need to get more relevant and respected underground DJs to #changetheirriders

djmag.com
Rebelguy 6:38 PM - 24 February, 2017
The more relevant guys are probably under contract with Pioneer already.
Ragman 6:48 PM - 24 February, 2017
This is a decent start. They need to be aggressive in their pursuit.
blackavenger 8:12 AM - 25 February, 2017
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This is a decent start. They need to be aggressive in their pursuit.

Oh, I agree. It's just that these two are known for being whores of the industry.
blackavenger 8:36 AM - 25 February, 2017
They need to sway some notable Pioneer users like Eats Everything, DJ Friction, anyone from the Dirtybird crew (Justin Martin, J Phlip, Claude VonStroke), Catz 'N Dogz, Mark Knight, Adam Beyer, Krissy Kriss, etc.. They need real heavy hitters in the "relevant" industry to abandon Pioneer and embrace the future of what Denon is offering.

Unfortunately, it's an "image" game. Pioneer are so cemented into the culture of Dance Music DJing that it's going to take some serious cash (endorsements) to get people's opinions swayed. I for one, could care less whether my fav. DJ is using this or that particular gear, but there are thousands of young kats out there that are influenced by such things. Plus, unless REAL DJs actually "change their rider" to these decks, all the promotion in the world won't make a difference. It's going to take their peers abandoning Pioneer and "adopting this next level kit" to get the idea to catch on.

At the very least, I hope the SC5000 is a success in that it forces Pioneer to produce a deck that warrants a $2K+ price tag. Because nothing in their range currently does.
DJ Marv the Maverick 9:20 AM - 25 February, 2017
Hub or no hub. I wouldn't trust it. With my experience with the MCX8000 I'm definitely not going to be buying any more Denon stuff.

If I come across it in the wild eg at a club or bar all well and good. Otherwise my money stays firm in my pocket.

My MCX8000 has a plethora of quirks. The USB port at the back is useless, maybe just for charging a phone. Tried plugging a USB hard drive to it once and Serato crashed.

In terms of encouraging us to changeriders, they better have a ground team going into local clubs and promoting it to owners.

They gotta be aggressive and all. It's not all clubs are suddenly going to yank out their pioneer set up just because of Denon


Denon can pay clubs to have the gear installed, like a sponsorship
Reticuli 2:40 PM - 25 February, 2017
IMO they are one step short of the right strategy to really seal the deal, but at least it's a first step.
deejdave 11:24 PM - 25 February, 2017
To put this in plain English they have an uphill battle and regardless of how hopeful any of us choose to be the odds are very much against them.
Ragman 11:31 PM - 25 February, 2017
Agree. It's gonna take a lot of resources and still will be a long shot.
deejdave 11:35 PM - 25 February, 2017
I mean we all have much to gain from denon succeeding so I am one of those hopefuls but also trying to stay realistic with my expectations.
matthew // connor 6:30 PM - 5 April, 2017
Does anybody know if the layers work properly when using in HID mode with serato? I know it has the two separate audio outs but is there a midi change when selecting between layers that selects corresponding deck in SDJ when running in HID mode?

Basically could I use one player to control two decks in HID like you can with the separate audio outs in DVS or as standalone players?

-MC
Rebelguy 4:20 PM - 6 April, 2017
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Does anybody know if the layers work properly when using in HID mode with serato? I know it has the two separate audio outs but is there a midi change when selecting between layers that selects corresponding deck in SDJ when running in HID mode?

Basically could I use one player to control two decks in HID like you can with the separate audio outs in DVS or as standalone players?

-MC


Has HID mode or Serato DJ support been integrated yet are the better questions.
DJ Yaitanis 10:52 AM - 29 September, 2017
Denon Prime SC5000 Controller Mode was implemented yesterday with SC5000 PRIME Firmware Update 1.0.2. When will the advertised Compatibility with Serato DJ now be implemented or will it take another year as usual?
Rebelguy 2:52 PM - 29 September, 2017
Does Denon have any response in their end to the status of things?
popnwave 5:46 PM - 29 September, 2017
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Denon Prime SC5000 Controller Mode was implemented yesterday with SC5000 PRIME Firmware Update 1.0.2. When will the advertised Compatibility with Serato DJ now be implemented or will it take another year as usual?


I hope so with snarky asshole posts like that.
Mr. Goodkat 9:58 PM - 22 November, 2017
they have these in a demo booth at GC now, damn those things are tanks. they feel good and look good. DOnt feel like Pioneers, they seem more solid and heavy
blackavenger 2:53 AM - 23 November, 2017
I wish they had gone with Depressed Platters ( à la CDJ) instead of those Touch Sensitive ( à la Controller-esque) Platters. But you are right, the build quality is sturdy. The screens are bright and super responsive. Having 3 USB ports (2 of which are 3.0) is convenient. I LOVE the way loops are handled on the SC5000 compared to the way CDJs do it. They really are a superior deck in just about every way compared to Pioneer CDJs. But they still have some kinks to work out with the units themselves as well as with Prime. Once those get ironed out, I will likely buy at least one deck.
Mr. Goodkat 12:30 AM - 25 November, 2017
the platter does feel a bit heavy compared to a 2000 nxs. prob would be great for mixing house/techno but might be too slow for quick mixers and scratching. not that it would be impossible at any level, but even at the lightest setting it just has a slower feel IMO
blackavenger 1:30 PM - 25 November, 2017
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even at the lightest setting it just has a slower feel IMO

Spot on!

At first, I was all excited about the prospect of "all metal construction" on the platter, until I felt them in person. I was only thinking of the durability of such a platter. Not at all thinking of how they would actually feel. I didn't like it. I never would have thought that I would prefer the CDJ's cheap feeling plastic platter, but I did.
Ragman 1:34 AM - 26 November, 2017
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even at the lightest setting it just has a slower feel IMO

Spot on!

At first, I was all excited about the prospect of "all metal construction" on the platter, until I felt them in person. I was only thinking of the durability of such a platter. Not at all thinking of how they would actually feel. I didn't like it. I never would have thought that I would prefer the CDJ's cheap feeling plastic platter, but I did.

Wow, this is very interesting. Glad you guys posted these comments as this could be a swing decision for me to go with the Rane 12 / 72 combo. If you think about it for a static platter lighter weight with tension adjust makes more sense.
deejdave 1:39 AM - 26 November, 2017
Gotta think about from a r&d pov and pioneer has had full access to touch sensitive platters at multiple weights and there was likely good reason they stuck with the current cdj platters. Keeping in mind one of the biggest drawbacks when the origins sz dropped and so many said cdj style platters would have been the swing vote for them.