VCI 380 with SL box.

<<not pdidy

Say it ain't so Johnny. Lol. >>runs and hides

Not really.....

But I will explain....lol.

So lately is had some "Guest DJ's" and plan to ha e some in the future, HOWEVER some of these cats refuse to use turntables which are my weapon of choice.

So in order to share the limited "DJ Space" of say a 6 ft table, I may have to allow space for them to setup what ever animal they bring with them, as I'm not supplying anything else besides 12's.

That being the case, I see occasions where I may play interim music until they get set up and don't want to totally fake the funk with an iPodish device with a premade mix.

So I figure a small footprint controller device with a miniature footprint and uses ScratchLive so I don't have to go thru the BS that comes along with SERATO DJ.

I'm not changing my DVS software for a once in a blue moon situation, feel me?

Serato remote app?

Didn't do any research yet, what hardware does it use?

And I suppose you need some type of wifi, correct?

Good question - I think most of the controllers were introduced with ITCH (the bastard stepchild between SSL and Serato DJ - serato.com).

Tracking out of curiousity

Tracking to see what the answer is. I have a VCI 300 - can't remember if it ran scratchlive. I know it runs Itch and Serato DJ

serato.com - I think you can use a Adhoc connect to your Mac instead of "real WiFi" network.

You'd need a iPhone or iPad too

This is looking like one of the best options....

smh @ controller companies not really being compatible with ScratchLive, but I get it, it's a business, and part of the business is getting the customer to buy the "latest and greatest" software available for their product.

I just need something with 2 jog wheels that can theoretically manipulate the control signal, and get fed into an SL3 box (if needed) to work with ScratchLive.

Lawd, that Numark Mixpro 3 is the right footprint, but it's SDJ.

***sigh***

Remote App is out as it still needs to support decks or a controller of some kind. That's additional hardware using the iPod/iPad/iPhone, etc.

FWIW, the VCI 380 and Mixtrack Pro 3 are _probably_ about the same width, but I'm also basing this off of what I know about the Mixtrack Pro 2. The build quality of the VCI is leaps and bounds above the Numark.

Build quality, I GUESS I'm not worried about.... Looking for a cheapy way to keep the music going, but still have "some" control over it...

I don't know there are too many of these type of controllers out there that pass audio (thru the mixer) and MIDI at the same time.

And I just realized that the VCI 380 with SL box doesn't make any sense, unless I'm just not getting it.

I don't want to use an external mixer...space is a premium.

the VCI _DOES_ pass MIDI while using the line in on the built in mixer. Meaning you would connect the SL3 just as you would to any other setup, only instead of a separate mixer and TT's, it would be in one unit. There would be a USB for the SL3, and the a USB for the VCI solely for MIDI.

My statement was that I don't think there was anything else out there that does or did it at the time, and if it is out there, it's probably more than you want to spend, and bigger than you want to setup.

Think about this...

One Denon HS5500 and a mixer - it has two soundcards built in so it can be used as two complete turntables at the same time. Use with Timecode on USB with SL3 and Scratch or just load songs on the USB drive and mix natively from the Denon. It has looping & FX built into the deck. Spinning platter so you can mix just like with records, you can even replace the disc with a 45. Should be able to pick one up for $2-300 these days. I still use mine occasionally, never had an issue with them. I have a 64g flash drive loaded with MP3s and a 15 minute timecode. When using Scratch, I load the timecode, push play to start the platter, then just mix like I would with a 1200, reset timecode for each song. If using Scratch I'd recommend also getting a secondary controller also, like the Denon HS100, for Cue Points, looping, sampling, etc...

Or just load a copy of Serato DJ on your computer and use a modern, decent controller. I have Scratch, DJ, VDJ, Rekordbox, Traktor, & M.E. all loaded on my computer, ready to go if needed. Always better to have the right tool available for the job.

Co-sign the 5500's, actually just took them out over the weekend at my gig.

If you have a set you have 4 decks provided you have a club kit 4 channel mixer or an SL4.

I have 250 gig hds in mine and I'm always rotating tracks in case my MacBook ever died I can just switch over and keep playing.

If your Qbert style scratch guy they might not be so good but for me a guy who looks to throw in a few babies here and there they work perfect.

In my opinion they are one of the greatest players made. Its a shame Denon still hasn't put anything out that can match (MCX 8000 is close but I dont like all in ones).....

Isn't a Pioneer WEGO SDJ ready??

I was thinking about a single N7, but realized I'd still need a mixer and SL3 box, so the footprint is still too big, and I really wanted one device.

I don't want to use Serato DJ or else I'd have to upgrade my OS.

No bueno.

But I DID forget about Virtual DJ....

****Uggh***

I mean V7....

I can't see there being any controller that will run Scratch Live and fit on the same 6ft table as a 2 Turntable setup. I use a 6ft table in my lab at home and it only has room for my 2 Techs, a Vestax 05 and my 4 channel Behringer line mixer. I also own a Pioneer SB and it has to sit on another table. I used to have the Denon MC2000 which has a very small footprint and it wouldn't fit on the table with the Technics. The only true controller that can fit on the same table is my Akai AMX and even then it only runs SDJ. If I try hard enough I can fit it with my iPad mini running the Tonetable app. You either need a bigger table or you need to upgrade to SDJ.

100% compatible with scratch live---> denondj.com

No, it won't be a controller with Turntables on the same table, it will be a controller (mine) with whatever they bring...

Now they MAY bring a controller as well, but most likely Pioneer CDJ's which take up a LITTLE less space than 12's I do believe...

Ok, that makes more sense.

This is my biggest gripe with all these controllers.

We were just having this same conversation last week.

We had a couple of DJs come in and play but they could only use controllers!! Itried to explain to them that using the CDJs in HID mode with a DDJ SP1 and a DJM 850 would basically be the same, so long story short we had to move a bunch of shit around to accommodate for they're stupid controller.

But I think from here on out, any guest DJs have to use the house setup (Pioneer everything).....

I set up next to controller dudes all the time, just use the one turntable technique.

I was thinking of this, but what I'm weighing in is setup and breakdown as well -

1-Turntable
1-Mixer
1-SERATO Box

Vs

1- Small Controller able to run SSL.

The size of that VCI is exactly what I want, unless there is some Grass roots option that I'm forgetting.

I take it that the VCI needs a Aweato box, or no?

A SERATO Box or no?

****sheesh****

You are falling in that trap.

I don't think there is any controller that runs Scratch Live if we're talking about VCI type controllers (all in one, with built-in mixer).

I mean, technically speaking there are Dicers, Denons and other small interfaces for cue points etc, but SL was the DVS while controllers were all on the obsolete Itch until DJ came around.

Natively, no, but with an SL box, a VCI-380 will run SSL with control over the platters.

There are a few options that don't work with the mapping (which was created by Vestax) but it is a very usable and stable alternative to SDJ.

I just don't see the point that way, because now you've got to use a separate mixer off to the side (ie. use Johnny's mixer while reaching over his tables)

Johnny, why not just have a smaller table off to the side and run an RCA in from whatever they bring, and they can stand at their podium like Guy Smiley all night.

Okay wait, I need to back up for a minute.

Obviously if they're using his VCI, even on his 6ft table, it would be connected to their own computer so they would be using SDJ. But at that point, it doesn't even make sense for Johnny to ever have to use one, if he's setting up his own mixer anyway.

Exactly. Set the tables up like normal, and set a fold up squar table on the side for controllers and whatever.

And yes, I get that USB from SL1 would run Scratch Live while VCI would control the platters, so you would have the functioning mixer it just seems like a whole lot of extra when Johnny is a turntable man anyway.

Otherwise, you can get whatever type midi device and play with your normal set-up minus the techs all in INT mode.

That's what I would do if I had to.

Shit, I do it even when I don't have to.

Ok, some of y'all are loosing focus. This isn't about me bringing or using turntables.

This is about a guest DJ showing up sometime after the party has started and setting up on the same 6ft table that I'm already supplying music from.

Im assuming they're bringing anything from a controller to a setup the size of 2 Pioneer CDJ's with mixer.

Size wise I thought the VCI would win, but I'm now understanding that I'd need a Separate mixer? Maybe I misunderstood.

Regardless, I was looking for something all inclusive like that Numark Mixpro 3 but that runs on ScratchLive.

Serato DJ would require me to upgrade the OS (buy a new laptop) and deal with all the issues Y'all are currently dealing with.

Wait, what?

There is no room for another table off to the side.

Yeah originally I was just focused on the fact that out of the box, there are no VCI type controllers that will run SL.

But that's why I backed myself up there for a minute. Like I said, why not just give them a side table, that way you can comfortably use your set with ample room. Or since you use both decks on the same side anyway, just bring one.

Like the Denon that was posted.

denondj.com

Sorry, was posting this just as you addressed it.

Just learn internal mode really well. Just bring the mixer and use the keyboard, or use this guy for more functions.

denondj.com

Lot of time ill keep going on internal mode while i pack up at the end of the night, its useable. Not great but def useable.

I do the same when it's one of those "few more songs" nights. I learned INT mode years ago for this martini joint I was at with shady gear. Boring as fuck but I'm glad I learned it, if something goes wrong (something conks out, needles have problems, house TTs are bad) I can play in internal all night.

I misunderstood I guess. I would just run INT. Changeovers run the gamut from smooth to clusterfuck. Playing a song or 3 on INT isn't going to kill anything. Or as mentioned, you cold remove one TT, and that should give enough room for a controller setup.

Reminds me of this one gig I had and I was BFE and i forgot my needles. Mapped pitch to a couple to the auxiliary knob and used internal mode. sucked ass but got the gig done.

Or yeah. INT mode, no midi device, just use the keyboard.

To cut to the chase, there's no such thing as a controller that runs ScratchLive natively. You can use the MIDI out on one but you'll need an external mixer and a Serato box.

There's a whole thread about people trying to "hack" the platters on controllers to control SSL somewhere.

Oh yeah, and they will have to map everything beforehand as well.

****Taps Mic...Is this thing on?****

1. There is no room for a side table...There is only room for a 6 foot table.

2. Bringing ONE deck is one step away from bringing 2 decks.... Take the size of a 1200 - (Disco Style) and add the Rane 56s, and room for a SL3 - VERSUS something like a VCI or Numark Mixpro 3...ALL on a 6 foot table.

Ahhh, gotchu...

Saw this later as well.

Hmmm.....I didn't REALLY want to "Geek Out" (AKA have nothing BUT knobs) as I wanted to have some type of jog wheels to at LEAST look the part....

But this thing doesn't look half bad....

But wait, it still needs a mixer....Ugggh...

This is so funny...I've recently started packing up 12's and playing those "Last Songs Of The Night" in internal mode a LOT lately....

Mouse, Laptop, SL3 and mixer....

The changeover thing was nothing I ever had to worry about before, but I'm becoming more and more a promoter at these things and with Guest DJ's that don't show up right at the beginning, I'm the one in the mix.

That being said, I would be DJ'ing for an hour or 2, so it's more than just "Jukebox" mode if you will. I still want to keep the party decent while I'M on the set.

And again, imagine a 6 foot table, 1 Technics 12 (Disco Style) a 56s mixer, and then THEIR setup of 2 Pioneer CDJ's and a mixer. I have to get some measurements together, but I don't think that would fit.

Wanted to be a little bit more than the perceived "Laptop" DJ if you will....

I know it's a thin line and all, but there are just some things that don't seem right...

REALLY?

And just so I understand this, there are controllers that do run Serato DJ natively.....

So what happened? Controllers came out and they developed ITCH to work exclusively with controllers?

Then it morphed into Serato DJ?

ScratchLive NEVER had controller support?

I just realized how obvious that question was...Just thinking out loud...

Ding ding

WOW, that sucks...

Who the hell thought NOT to give Scratchlive support to controllers...

Even EARLY ones....

Well that is a lie. There is one Denon controller that did have native support. Not what you'd be looking for, and already mentioned earlier. But much like the VCI option, you'd need to still hand an SL box, and there's no built in mixer. Basically it's for mobile DJ's.

So with the VCI, would I still need a separate mixer?

The idea is that if you use a controller with inputs that's mappable.

You could use an SL1 as your soundcard to run Scratch Live, with two RCAs going into the VCI channels, while using the VCIs USB line to control the SL virtual decks (after mapping)

Sorry Johnny, crude as hell but this is the signal flow..

djshamann.com

That is dope. Thanks for taking the time.

Now I understand that the VCI is up top, the SL1/SL3 is on the side, what is that on the bottom? Speakers and a Mixer?

Am I not using the fader on the controller?

Sorry, that unit at the bottom is supposed to be the VCI, what's up top is SL on MBP.

LOL! Ok, the circles threw me off up top...

LOL yeah sorry, pretty crude, was just trying to show the basics right quick. I updated the pic with more details.

djshamann.com

Now THAT is what I want....

And to be more specific, I thought I was talking about the VCI-300, but it looks like you guys were referring to the VCI-380...

Doesn't matter, that's the exact footprint I'm looking for....

Serato DJ huh? smh.... Uggh, that's a LOT to go thru to get there...

Yeah I was using the idea of the 380 in the diagram because from what I remembered (and there could be a newer version) the 300 has no audio-in.

But yes, this is the only way to do it if you want to run that style of controller with Scratch. Otherwise you'll have to upgrade to SDJ since that's what they come paired with out of the box.

Roger that....Appreciate it mayne!

No problem.

It's crazy how they didn't make ScratchLive compatible with controllers...

Then again, they'd want you to use a dongle, (ScratchLive box, or affiliated hardware), so they can make their money....

Ugggh.

Wait, they're making you use ITCH and Serato DJ anyway, so that can't be it...

Someone needs to create a real working Midi thingy to make ScratchLive work on EVERYTHING....smh.

You can use a first Gen Denon MC6000 with a Rane box and have everything midi mapped including the platters.

Search the forums and I'm sure you can find the thread.

I think the hard part is finding a first Gen MC6000.

After you find one, problem solved 👌

Heres the video, Watchm.youtube.com

And here's the thread, serato.com

Hope that helps.

And there it is....

Thank you sir!

This is my setup configured in the exact 6ft footprint you're looking for.
Pioneer CDJ1000's + rane 57 (Room for substitution of 1200's or any full size controller)
VCI-300 running Itch (itch is not resource intensive and should run flawless on your laptop)
Line Mixer (For you to control sound)
i26.photobucket.com

Ive used the denondj.com, NOT a fan and neither will you.

I like to keep it simple so the MC-6000 SSL w/ PLATTER CONTROL mapping would not be my recommendation. But if using scratchlive is your sole priority, this is it.

Well damn... I stand corrected.

As an aside, that has got to be one of the worst, most annoying product feature demos I've ever seen.



I forgot about those :). I don't remember the model name, but I used to want them after trying the Stanton SCS9-3d for a while (it had limited ssl support as well). I'd probably pick them up still if I ran across a pair at the right price.

Maybe pair those with an Akai AMX? I remember them being really compact...

Here it is... the Denon Dn-SC2000.

Watchwww.youtube.com

As I said before, get one Denon HS5500, load your songs from a flash drive or HD and play on it natively. Mix using two channels on the the outboard mixer that you have the other dudes plugging into. One deck has two audio outputs so you can mix back to back with just one deck and no laptop. Doesn't get any easier than that.

The most official way, especially having to play a couple hours is the One Turntable Technique.

If you have worked on turntables your whole life I doubt a static jog wheel is going to be any better than just pressing buttons in full INT mode.

Denon 5500 is a rotaing platter and theres no need for instant doubles.

But yes I agree use what is most comfortable for you 👍

And say no to controllers in the booth 😜

Man theres PLENTY of room on Pdidys table for 1 1200 and a 56 battle style, disco style is the issue.

:)

See?

THIS is why I put Pdidy in the title...

That is the EXACT setup that I would need....

EXACTLY....

So, ITCH is no big deal huh? But will run on Windows XP...

I take it that ITCH can share the same ScratchLive music library, and run independently of ScratchLive, no?

Point taken, but if I'm going to bring 1 turntable, I might as well bring 2. Now, a single 12 MAY fit (Disco Style) plus the mixer, but now I'm plugging in 3 devices.

That VCI-300 is exactly what I need.

I just have to verify that ITCH won't affect my ScratchLive library...

Buying a VCI 380 today doesn't make sense. Before Vestax went out of business I kopped two VCI 380's for $300 each. Vestax been out of business at least a year, and today the 380 will run you about $800. if it's even new. It's an outdated, unsupported controller. But it is a very good controller.

Itch is nothing to be concerned about because its not POWER hungry like serato DJ. For example, Ive been running Itch flawless since 2008 on my backup low spec 2008 MBP running winXP on bootcamp. (2.4 GHz "Core 2 Duo" 2gigs Ram www.everymac.com)
Yes, no issue there either.

I still use itch and scratchlive is my primary use for high end events, Ive had zero conflicts since 2008.

I want to be clear that I'm understanding you correctly. You bought 2 VCI 380's for a total of 600 bucks, but a SINGLE one will cost about 800 bucks now?

Also, will the VCI 380 run on ITCH as well as Serato DJ?

That VCI-300 MKII upgrade looks like a winner....And it should be cheap these days.

Upgrade - I have absolutely no issues with Serato DJ on either my NS7, CDJs, VCI 380 or turntables

Second - scratch live doesn't work with any controller and part of the reason why it was probably discontinued. At some point you will have to upgrade unless you're keeping the same computer for life.

Third - you can have both live and serato DJ on your computer. I do and mainly use live when using my 1200s

Aight then, are we going to see a pump me up routine?

Bwhahahhaaaaa...

You already know.....

Did Joee beat you in a dj battle at some point?

Yes he did....

Watchwww.youtube.com

we never had a battle, he just wanted to see some cuts so i thru something up

he couldn't come close to me cutting it up on a controller, he doesn't even know how

can you imagine on turntables!

Bwhahahhaaaaa...

This right here sums up your place on the totem pole of DJ'ing....

lmao @ striving to learn to "cut" on a controller....

Bwhahahahahahhahaaaaa....

Oh, and this vid of mine STILL squashes anything you put out there....

On 12's or a controller..

Watchwww.youtube.com

i don't click "LANKS"

Bwhahahahahahhahaaaaa....

That wasn't for you pebbles!

no controller runs scratchlive. you can run your mixer + box and map a bunch of stuff to a pad controller or something and run in internal mode, but you're not going to get jog wheels.

Serato DJ has been rock solid for me lately. Been doing tons of 7-8 hour gigs with no issues.

Time to get with the program and install SDJ.

You mentioned that you will need a new laptop, mind me asking what specs your laptop is?

You can always partition the HD install new OSX, buy a cheap controller instead of this permutations with VCI and whatnots.

I have a WeGo3, SX, 62 and a S9 is being shipped as we speak.

Hell if Im doing multi dj event at my spot I only bring my SX and I inform guests that's what is gonna be provided.

And it has worked well that way, they bring their usb loaded with music or laptop

Just this one time this dj brought CDJs because she plays from CDs and there was no issues hooking her up to.

Not ready to go to SDJ just yet....too many bugs vs. Scratchlive 1.9.1/2.

I'm using a Dell laptop running Windows XP.

There's no interest in doing video or using multiple decks.

They can bring their own rig, I just wanted something off to the side so I can keep the party going in the interim while they set up.

I mentioned that at the start of the thread.



Yep - ITCH wasn't too bad (at least on a Mac)

Ooops - I see PDiddy answered all your questions - just catching up - DOH

You have to remember that for every 5 people who complain about SDJ, theres probably 100 people who haven't had any problems.

I for one have never had a crash live (knock on wood).

I guess just something to think about.

SDJ problem free here :)

And for every 100 without issues, there are another 100 with issues - they just don't complain or understand the problem in the first place.

there it is

when sdj first came it ,me testing at home it marked perfectly good videos as curupted files & crashed

i re encoded them and all is fine ,knowing what the problem is and how to remedy it is key

never had one single crash at a live gig

Use INT mode with a Rane TTM57SL. The midi functions work well. No jog wheels though.

No jog wheels even needed.

great solution , but you know he is not springing that loot for a ttm 57, even tho it has dropped in price

Why would I spend loot on something that had inferior sound quality compared to the SL3?

Thats a myth.

???

Let me be more specific - Using DVS through a regular TT57 versus using DVS through an SL3.

Ive heard that claim, but I specifically remembering a developer explain essential the same quality DA was used in the 57 and SLs after the SL1

I could he wrong about that... Don't care too much b;cause I moved on to the 57mkii...

Reminds me, I, should still compare the OG vs mkii

well the older usb1 devices are also 16 bit while the newer are 24bit and up.

Nope sound quality of DVS thru SL1 / TTM57 vs SL3 and newer models is night and day assuming you're using a 320kbps file (or better) in the first place.

Its my understanding, as told to me by developers, and it was quite a while ago... The ttm57 has the same card as the SL2/3

TTM57 doesn't have a SL1 inside it, its an SL2 inside it essentially.


But if we are talking about using controllers and skip the 1200s anyway.... If there is any quality difference no ones going to hear it anyway right?

I'm saying and I've compared, the sound quality of the SL1/TTM57 are subpar to the SL3 and above when using DVS.

That was part of the reason it took me so long to switch over as I knew I would be using a combination of DVS and regular vinyl through the transition period.

This is very old news.

Gotcha.

But this is why a 57 is actually a very good optional here.

- SSL
- Easy setup
- Smaller Footprint
- Can control Pitch
- Cue buttons (start record if you have cue on 1st beat)
- its a Rane

Drawback will be no jog wheels. If you arnt scrwtching/juggling... And price.

...and it would set you back from upgrading to SDJ - if ever.

No, I consider sound quality over everything else.

And I wanted SOME jog wheel control.

My bet is that after you compare 'throwing records' with any type jog wheel you will choose just taping Cue1 to start a record...

Most people I see using jog wheels (other than making videos) use them to dial in the pitch then just press start.

Www.djjohnnym.com

i WAS WONDERING WHAT THE VERDICT WAS, so whats your opinion on it ?

Exactly what I needed.

Small footprint, no OS or PC upgrades, the dude even threw in some effects module.

200 bucks.

Excellent !, waiting on the video demo :)

Pump me up?

One of the best EVER to rip on a VCI - Mr. Deez Notes

Watchwww.youtube.com

Oh, this guy too - NASTY - Watchwww.youtube.com

peronally don't think the VCI-300 sounds all that hot myself. A 380 might have served you better.

+10000000 on the 380

The ONLY reason I bought this was, well...I wanted to get something compatible with ScratchLive, or ITCH if you will...

I found myself in a predicament where someone wanted me to do the Ceremony of a Wedding and then the Reception in two different parts of the establishment.

It also solves the issue if I have a guest DJ and they want to bring a controller, but I only have room on a 6 foot table....

Pays for itself with 1 gig.

Why? I have no use for those pads.

While that may be true from an audiophiles point of view but I would challenge you to find 1 client too say the same. The only problem that I've found with the vci300 is that it lacks acquitted headroom or output so you NEED a line mixer to boost the output in order to not play in the red. Too my knowledge Johnny will be using a Board so that will be a non-issue every time.

Man, you already know I've got a Line Mixer...

What funny is that I was guest DJ'ing at a spot, said I'd bring my 12's and mixer, and they just handed me 2 XLR cables running to their speakers.

Plugged it into this - www.music-group.com and turned it up.

And he looked at me like I had 2 heads...

"Yo, WTF is that? You just made my system sound 4 times better"

He was amazed by the sound the entire night...

Went out the NEXT DAY and bought one.

A board makes a REAL difference in sound quality (even to an amateur) when compared to never using one.

+100000

When I finally bought my Yamaha MG10 about a year or so ago to use with my controller, the difference was massive. That has held up well, but I've just recently upgraded to a Behringer X32 Rack and that thing has made my rig sound even better than with the Yamaha. It is a total beast, but way overkill for many DJs haha.

This is what I use when I'm not using the House system - www.allen-heath.com

The x32 is the greatest thing behringer EVER made and the only thing they made I can't shit on because it's really that good.

380 works with Itch

Again, why pay extra for those buttons when I'm not going to use them?

Sound quality of the 380 is better than the 300. I currently own the 380 and owned a couple of the 300 mk2s. I ran both through a line mixer and prefer the 380. I also run a sl1 box through the 380 on ocassion.

You were going good until you mentioned the SL1.

The SL1 has terrible sound quality compared to well, the SL3.

No biggie, my usage of this will be very limited at best....

I bought the sl1 for home use only. I have a pioneer ddj sx and sx2 but I wanted something to occasionally use scratch live

My point is that you were making about point about Sound Quality, then put the SL1 in the mix.

Hey, real quick..

Scratchlive Library vs Itch Library.

Are they one and the same?

Should do everything (setting cue points, overviews, backups etc) still in SSL vs ITCH?

Also, since installing ITCH, my Scratchlive library loads up in SECONDS now....versus minutes.

Did it create a different database or something?

The sound quality of the sl1 is comparable to the vci 300mk2 using itch.

But you were talking about the 380, with a certain level of sound quality, why even put the SL1 in the mix?

That negates your whole point.

That's like saying I've got a great Audiophile Turntable, and then you put a 78 on it.

Okay the vci 380 sounds better than the vci 300mk2. I know you like to debate and I'm not getting into all of that, I'm just stating what I've experienced. No more sl1 in the convo. Is that good?

Lol, this was hardly a debate, but it's cool.