Serato DJ Pro General Discussion

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 Serato DJ Pro General Discussion
USB Dropouts on Numark NS7II
Talk about Serato DJ Pro, expansion packs and supported hardware

USB Dropouts on Numark NS7II

DJ Bass Fiend 11:54 PM - 23 May, 2016
Computers:
DJing computer: HP M7-j020dx (i7-4700mq, 12GB ram, 128GB SSD primary & 1TB storage with music library)
Backup computer: HP 15t-J100 (i7-4700mq, 8GB ram, 1TB storage, with music library on a separate partition on the same drive.)

Hardware:
Numark NS7II (Firmware Version: V1.05)

Software:
Serato DJ (Version: 1.7.6, 1.8.1 and 1.9.1)
Drivers (Version: V2.9.55)

I experience endless USB dropouts on both machines, which is frustrating because both of these machines should be able to push this software without breaking a sweat.

On both machines, when I experience a dropout, it manifests as a total loss of control from my NS7 except the master volume. Music still plays, and I can still use the mouse to drop new songs on whichever side was live at the dropout. If I disconnect then reconnect the controller, I can use the controller again after about 30 seconds of dead air and pops through my speakers…until the next dropout.

I’ve tried all of the following system tweaks to no avail:
• Optimizing windows for background services
• Closing all programs and system tray programs I’m not using
• Using windows classic theme
• Keeping CPU usage low (rarely over 40% ever when DJing)
• Keeping RAM usage low (I typically have over 5GB free when DJing)
• High performance power settings
• Turning off wifi card
• Changing USB buffer (in both directions, neither help)
• Staying plugged into power

When I’m running serato DJ, the only other program I have open is iTunes (because Serato has been unstable with my large libraries). This problem has existed for me since Serato DJ 1.7.6 but has gotten worse. It used to be very rare, and I could have all sorts of stuff running in the background with no concern. Now it’s very intermittent, I can have 3 dropouts in 10 mins, or it can be fine for 4+ hours even though my usage methods are the same. I noticed sometimes other programs can interfere (eg: I want to open a client’s PDF request list while I’m performing) which even the most basic, non-CPU- intensive tasks can cause a dropout. Now it’s so problematic that I can leave the computer on autoplay, doing nothing but playing music, and come back two songs later to find the USB has dropped out.

This wasn’t always the case, I had about a 6 month stretch where my DJ computer was rock solid stable with serato DJ 1.7.6. It was so good I even made a system image so I could restore in case of future instability. Even when I restore to that image, I can immediately have dropouts when using Serato DJ and my controller.

I’ve even tried a half dozen USB cables, in case it was a faulty wire.

It got so bad, I thought maybe my turntable’s firmware was corrupted so I bought a NS7III. I tried that with Serato DJ 1.9.1 and even that one had dropouts. That was so unstable that Serato only recognized the controller as connected about a third of the time, and then dropped it out after only a couple mins.

I have zero problems with any of the USB ports on either of my computers with flash drives, external disk drives, printers, mice, etc, and those computers both have the most recent USB host controller drivers.

I feel like I’ve read every forum thread on the topic. What am I missing?
Phsyraxion 1:47 AM - 24 May, 2016
Yeah I have a laptop almost the same specs as your main machine only mine is Asus and has a mechanical 5400 drive, not SSD.

Mine is literally only Serato and is stock Win10 with Serato and MP3 tagging software, that's it. I have an NS7III and so far (touch wood) it operates about 98% reliable. The 2% issue has been exactly what you and numerous others have described and that is the controller just decides to pack up and go home before i'm ready.

In my instance the audio disconnects, control stops for about 10 seconds then it all connects back again and starts working. This has happened 3 times now.

Something tells me it's a USB data issue since you have a lot of data flowing over the cable. I fear there will never be a fix. Not anywhere the same as you are experiencing tho.

Maybe try and get another USB cable with ferrite chokes? That is what I am using.

I have to say though I also tested the NS7III on a lower spec Toshiba i5 12GB Ram machine and has more issues on that with 10 second disconnects every 30-50minutes and one instance where audio went all distorted and required complete disconnection of the controller. Spec wise it should have run it but seems you need a very clean machine and possibly some USB ports share resources with other parts of the computer so seems to differ from machine to machine.

Not something one expects though from a 2K controller tho.
DJ Fluke 613 11:43 AM - 24 May, 2016
I have a few questions for you guys ....

Only reason I ask is that i ran the ns7 1 for 3 years using itch on a Windows 7 PC with 0 issues and now I have an ns72 on Mac that runs with no USB issues.

1. Can you tell me if your video card is shared ram or dedicated ?

2. What ms and screen refresh rate do you have in sdj ?

3. Have you heard of dpc latency checker ? If no Google and download it. Without the ns7 connected, run it, do you ever get yellow or red bars ?

4. Have you verified if you choose updates from your PC manufacturer? Like for the bios, chipsets for the USB and other things ? Just trust me on this one.

Having a 2000 dollar controller dosent mean anything. You hold a certain responsibility when using Windows. These things need to be done.
DJ Fluke 613 11:44 AM - 24 May, 2016
For number 4 sorry have you verified if you have updates.
Heltino 7:17 PM - 24 May, 2016
I habe AGAIN the same issues.
Numark has, by the way, a new driver for Win10.
2.9.6.4

Maybe helps a guy here...for me does not :(
Phsyraxion 12:27 AM - 25 May, 2016
Quote:
I have a few questions for you guys ....

Only reason I ask is that i ran the ns7 1 for 3 years using itch on a Windows 7 PC with 0 issues and now I have an ns72 on Mac that runs with no USB issues.

1. Can you tell me if your video card is shared ram or dedicated ?

2. What ms and screen refresh rate do you have in sdj ?

3. Have you heard of dpc latency checker ? If no Google and download it. Without the ns7 connected, run it, do you ever get yellow or red bars ?

4. Have you verified if you choose updates from your PC manufacturer? Like for the bios, chipsets for the USB and other things ? Just trust me on this one.

Having a 2000 dollar controller dosent mean anything. You hold a certain responsibility when using Windows. These things need to be done.


In my case I am not concerned at all because the glitch has occurred 3 times in about 400 hours of use but to help answer some of the Qs:

Firstly my background in computers, music software, DJing and production spans back to 1992 when I hand built my first DJ mixer at age 13. From there I have progressed through electronic engineering, computer engineering and audio production. I run 2 powerful windows DAW environments and 2 portable DJ laptops. I choose Windows because I have a complete 20 year understanding of the OS and hardware so it makes sense to me as to what is happening in the box.

1. Dedicated 4G Nvidia Card

2. By "ms" I assume you mean the buffer setting. Currently on 256 samples which should be more than enough. I have also run down at 96 samples without any issue but when I experienced 2 of the hiccups it was at 256.

Screen update I cannot remember but I know I did set it to a lower / mid value for initial testing which I believe it is still set at.

3. Yes and that does not identify any issues.

4. Of course. I purchased this current laptop new and sourced updated drivers for everything I own with exception with the BIOS (I only ever update BIOS if I know there is a need/reason too).

I have done a lot of reading and research on this matter and this kind of issue seems to affect many from time to time irrespective of the operating system. I have seen the same reports form both Mac and PC users going back to the NS7II. It could be something as simple as a cheap USB cable they use has a slight connectivity issue occasionally. From what I have seen of the issue on my end it's basically a complete disconnection of the controller from the system then a reconnection although funnily when it happens Serato does not go back to management mode so that suggests the software is still registering the controller via the driver but the driver has lost sync with the hardware for a brief moment.

I believe this is more a driver, hardware or USB controller issue than a serato issue personally. I have been reading that MAC users are advised to use a USB to Thunderbolt adapter because there could be an issue with MAC USB reliability for the hardware.

I haven't tried support as yet but I know from working in a support field that having an issue that occurs so randomly is a tough thing to troubleshoot and for me I am not bothered, it has not happened during an event.
Serato, Support
Marcus S 2:24 AM - 25 May, 2016
Hey there guys,

This is definitely an issue that our support team can run through with you. Please just open a help request which can be done through the 'Get Help from Serato' button on the General discussion page.
DJ Bass Fiend 3:01 AM - 25 May, 2016
@DJ Fluke 613

1) The DJ computer is integrated, 2GB Shared. The backup is dedicated 2GB.
2) I’ve tried 1MS all the way to 20MS, but keep it usually at 10MS. 60Hz screen refresh.
3) I'd not heard of it, but I tried it. Idle, without the controller connected, I do sometimes reach into the yellows and red. I tried turning off the wifi and that yielded lower values, but still some occasional yellows. Disabling my networking cards altogether from device manager yielded some marginally lower values, but still some (even less frequent) yellows. Some of the yellows appear to be correlated with tracks loading.
I’m going to leave it on auto play overnight with my network cards disabled and see my worst values in the morning.
4) Yes, all system drivers are the latest, and sourced only from the manufacturer site.

@Marcus S
Thanks, I'll do that.
DJ Fluke 613 10:56 AM - 25 May, 2016
If you see some yellows, even here and there without the controller than you have something running causing interference. When I was using Windows, it's was all green barely going up . Like the graph was constant half an inch. When I had yellow and some red, it turned out my CD ROM was causing it, so I disabled it. I would disable things one by one until it's fully stable. If you can never get it like that, then this PC is not meant for audio use. Also I wouldn't conect a controller until you get this green at all times. You need to prioritize this, should always be in green.

Also I am not sure if this will matter , but I had the windows aero disabled and all the fancy stuff. It looks like a Windows XP machine, classic mode, no aero.
DJ Bass Fiend 11:21 AM - 27 May, 2016
DJ Fluke 613,

I tried disabling my cd drive and network cards, left it on auto play for 10 hours and didn't have any dropouts. That in itself is a huge improvement. It didn't stay green completely, but it was pretty much green. I'm going to try disabling other devices and see if I can't get it to work even better.
DJ Fluke 613 11:28 AM - 27 May, 2016
That's really good man. Try to determine why it's not staying green. Something is hardware related is causing it. Maybe webcam ? Bluetooth?
Tommy Deem 11:47 PM - 27 May, 2016
Advanced Settings>USB Setting>USB selective suspend setting> set to disabled (as mentioned above)

Try this one, it solved more than few usb dropouts on win laptops :)