100% True.
I'm running SDJ on a MacBook Pro 15 (2015), lags, freezes, pixelized GUI, I miss SSL as much as you.
The priority of Serato is things like adding Sync option in their software, pathetic.

Went back to Virtual DJ recently, wow... Huge difference in EVERYTHING, including sound. Videos run flawlessly, and the sound engine is incredible. My effects now actually sound like effects... Yeah, I gave serato dj a few years and now im gone

I'm having huge glitch problems running Serato DJ 1.9.0 with the Pioneer DJM S9 and I'm not sure which one is to blame the Mixer or The software or a combo of both.

I returned the mixer and got a new one same problem. It makes a buzzing sound at times and also makes the songs sound like they are distorting digitally as if I have a bad set of needles or bad DVS control Vinyl... but will continue even on internal mode and replacing needles and records did nothing for it... it magically disapears by turning off and on the mixer or unplugging and plugging the USB cable back in... Like magic... This is a fairly new laptop running Windows 10.1 with an i7 processor and 16GB RAM should not even be breaking a sweat but it's acting like the oldest laptop in the world. And others are having similar issue on MACBOOK Pro laptops. One guy said he exchanged his mixer 3 times. It's an issue that needs to be fixed soon or people are going to lose confidence in Serato and Pioneer. I mean it could just be Pioneer just barely started working with Serato so they haven't had as much time to work out bugs. Rane has had a much longer time to work out bugs through their 57 and 62 mixers etc...

forums.pioneerdj.com

Watchwww.youtube.com

I mostly moved to the RB and RB DJ.
Not because I don't like serato but because I don't need any soundcard as I can use the internal soundcard of the cdj's what is sooo comfortable when you don't have to mess with the wires during someones elses set to connect the soundcart even its needed only as the license dongle (talking about not DJM equiped venues).
Also the library is much much better in the RB - how long we are asking serato to make some improvements? Related tracks? Better smart crates etc.? In RB, its there and I love it..
Now when RB supports the DVS, I have the comfort of having one library for cdj's and vinyls.. And when playing on a gig where are nxs2? - you are done....
Serato got very self confident last years and their SDJ roadmap is ridiculous, letting people asking the same features over and over again, without implementing the most wanted features, focusing on nonsenses...
The only thing I don't like on RB is the Pioneer brand - they are bunch of a terrible assholes...

Rane isn't any better trust me. The SL2 and SL4 hardware are no longer supported with current OS X. Yet, they still sell them in stores and online. You think you're pissed at Pioneer? You should see the Rane forums.

+100000.

They seriously need a class action to move their a$$

Most DJs I know have either switched to RB already, or (like me) they run SDJ and RB. For me, it's easier for most gigs to just turn up with a USB, plug in and go. If most of the clubs you play in are running Pioneer NXS hardware then RB makes this seriously easy and convenient.

I find I'm using my controllers less and less these days.

I still have a fondness for Serato but I think SDJ is in danger of becoming irrelevant in the very near future.

THIS!
Exactly one of my reasons why I am switching to RB...-even it doesn't looks like, having not to mess with the rca cables is a huge advantage.
Serato closed its application to the specific hardware, limited the usb mixers which you are allowed to use and in return, this is what slowly makes people not using it.
Maybe time to add the CDJ's and XDJ's to the club kit so they can be used as the certified sound cards and/or give up this silly "serato enabled" hardware game so we can use the hardware we want, not what is dictated by serato..... Its silly and I don't think Serato position is now so strong as it used to be, to allow such policy.
In other words, the situation is that what we don't get from serato, we get it from the Rekordbox and its up to Serato how will deal with it.

Man, I used to have so much respect for your inputs, but now you're just one of the folks who upgraded blindly and the blame rests on you. Until the next hardware refresh of MacBook Pros hits you can always roll with Yosemite on the 2015s. If you aren't that's on you dude.

I can't think of any DJs I know that have switched to RB. In fact I know a ton of guys that haven't even switched to SDJ. They are still using SSL.

Rekordbox DVS will be the end of Serato DJ...they never listened nor fixed any of the bugs that have existed "since" Scratchlive. I hate to say it but they did it to themselves. Nail in the coffin😴 R.I.P.

Maybe in the strip clubs of Palm Harbor, but not in the rest of the world.

Yet you're always here. You've been beating that dam drum like forever man. hahaha!

It's a DJ forum lol most of the dj's that are playing out professionally are still "using" Scratchlive. What does that tell you?

So when did you find the time to travel the world and take this quick poll??? Dude I really like you but you say some of the weirdest sh!t sometime. lol

Lol I've had a few drinks I'm at a gig😜 I really had high hopes for SDJ but it's been crap since it was first born.

I haven't come across not one of these types of software that didn't have problems. They're all crap because we want these companies to put all these unused features in them. To your point that's why SSL is still so popular. It's got the best stability minus all the cool ass features. But get back to your gig. We'll talk tomorrow. lol

It's curious that after a year and a half since my last "professional" gigging with traktor I find myself more and more frustrated about bring my computer to club. Nowadays I'm more focused on iPad solutions and feel Serato so far away... Their are asking for midi clock use in a survey (at midi clock request forum thread) and reading the options I feel the part which is not fitting is just desktop software. Djplayer has the basic features and non-so basic including midi clock and Dvs support...

I can understand users going to RB due their work with Pioneer gear at clubs even not was/is my option.

Sadly times seems Serato killed itself. Maybe NI was right with their "Future of Sound" (EDM at U.S.A could be a nail in the coffin of music itself)

:S

Gotta admit some of these posts are funny. The world needs dreamers..............

This is nothing more than your usual members of the pity party.

Time will answer. Anyway I lost the need to argue at the same time I left djing.

XD

A DJ FORUM is def the best place for an NON debating person who does not DJ :)

But I DO agree time will tell. Fortunately it does not take much to see Serato is in NO WAY hurting at the present moment.

Yes I was masochist at my best. I learned the lesson by the hard way.

just because be people complain doesnt mean it doesnt work

think about people complaining about a dj set. you can have 499 happy people and 1 person that hates everything in the world. i usually think its anywhere from 5-20% with just about any product or service.

in this case it maybe higher, but i dont think its any more than 20%.

a lot of people didnt switch, not because it didnt work, but just they didnt need to. i have several friends that never switched but it had nothing to do with the product.

i think rekordbox will surpass SDJ, but it will take about 5 years

no..we wouldnt be on here talking about it if it was....out of the 30 or so djs i know none yet use rekordbox..couple use traktor..the rest use serato..for broadcasting serato is the best with regards to the sample slot layout for radio drops..vdj slots are fine..but vdj i find an eysore..poor reason i know..sdj does need to improve a few things..but dont they all

Waiting for RekordBuddy to make the switch (loops, cues).

Serato : never fixed the midi, broke the GUI, didn't put DJM T1 into the club kit, won't support older core2duo (since when you need more than that to play, cut, fx 2 audio files ?), have issue with Capitan, with retina...
I've seen here some guys spent money on some high end MBP and still have troubles.

A Denon 3900+RKB DJ DVS will replace my Numark V7+SDJ.

Yeah you will love it over there as Rekordbox DJ does not support Core2Duo either. As a matter of fact neither does Traktor and to answer specifically for quite a while now just some are not getting it.

"Intel® Processer Dual Core 2.0 GHz or higher
4GB or more of RAM "

Dual core (as in i3, i5 or i7) and NOT core2Duo.

Direct from Rekordbox.com rekordbox.com

The issues experienced by the newer MacBook Pro's are waveform related issues mostly and does not affect the sound at all.


BTW as it stands Rekord Buddy does not support large libraries in the least so we are quite a long ways away from usable.

That is correct. One alternative is Denon DJ's Engine software. It supports 2 TB per USB slot on their MCx8000 controller. As a backup in case of computer failure, Engine 1.5 is very functional. I'm testing and slowly transitioning to a primarily all USB flash drive format. If Denon continues the support for Engine 1.5 then I can see myself primarily using the standalone USB format in the future.

Good to hear about Engine. I know they had a rough go from the start. Not for nothing I have always been a fan of Denon and they deserve it. My last player was the 3500's (which were horrible for Serato) but my favorites of all time believe it or not were the S-1000's.
Any specific drives causing issues or anything. I remember when Rekordbox did not like WD passport drives which happen to be one of the most popular LOL.

I started with the Denon 5000s, then the Denon 3700s. I now have the 3900s. I also had the Numark CDXs but quickly sold them due to all the issues I experienced.

I've tested using a Kingston 32GB 2.0 flash drive. I have a pair of Sandsdisk 128 GB 3.0 flash drives in the MCx8000 right now. No issues with those USB drives so far. I would recommend buying a name brand drive over the cheaper generic ones. In the MCx8000 you CAN play music right off of the flash drive without analyzing in Engine 1.5 but I would NOT recommend it. Overall, it works best to analyze the music first.

Thanks for the inputs.
This is weird because actually I do have Traktor and Rekordbox (not DJ or DVS) up and running on that old horse. :/

At home I also run a mid 2009 MBP Core2Duo with SDJ 1.8.2…
(mid 2009 MBP OSX 10.8.5 2.8 Core2Duo 8GB RAM 500GB Samsung EVO 850 Pro SSD)

My mid 2009 MBP can run SDJ 1.8.2 BUT not efficiently. The CPU meter in SDJ goes up to about 40% where my mid 2012 MBP keeps the CPU meter around 10-15%.

On the other hand, I can run SSL, Mix Emergency, iTunes AND my Studio One DAW at the same time and the CPU meter barely registers 5%. I do miss the efficiency of Serato Scratch Live!

Well sdj is the same. It WILL run on a core2duo machine but may not be all that great. Keeping the buffer at 5ms+ optimizing to no end, limiting crate and library sizes as well as other sacrifices must be made. For a while sdj was not able to be installed on my old 2007 MacBook Pro due to Mac OS X 10.7 but now as of sdj 1.9 I can install again. Obviously I would NEVER even try to use such an antique professionally but the fact remains is it was installed and does "run" crashes the second I log into pulselocker but does run.

This is just natural progression though and in all honesty it must happen. If not where do we/serato draw the line as decdo g to support older obsolete hardware actually hurts all users in the big picture.

Yes but who made the hardware obsolete ? not the users... the lazy coders does !

I have tested Rekordbox 4.1 and Traktor 2.10.2 and both of them are running (remember my old dog laptop specs) BUT Traktor 2.8 was smoother, so again, I'm reaching a limit there.

On the other side, Rekordbox is as expected, running, no crash, everything is ok, cpu load is on a steady 90% from the RKB load gauge. A bit high but not waving up and down.

I had this exact same conversation (and clash) a few years ago with MixVibes Cross where they told me that "my computer was too old and I should upgrade to a Mac". oO
It's only software, coding and the lazy guys won't don't optimisation at all or cleaning their codes or what so ever.
So me, the user, I have to provide brut cpu power to balance the fact that something is laggy inside the application for whatever reason and all of you think that this is just ok...

I have a perfectly 8 years old computer working like a switch watch and I have to dump it because some people are lazy/don't care and every one have said amen from crowd.
I'm the only guy on this forum (on earth ?) that think something wrong with this meaning !?!

So after owning ScratchLive, Itch, Serato DJ a lot of controlers/hardware and every add-ons (minus PnT my computer can't run and that is normal due to the heavy math behind) this is how things end for me ??? Stuck between 2 buggy version 1.7.6 and 1.7.8 : well done guys, love your business model !

It's not about laziness, as a company you have to make business choices and generate NEW MONEY.

Improving old codes and technologies costs a lot (time, efforts, money...) and doesn't bring more money !! Developers loves improving and optimizing things, but they are just doing what the management decide.

We can't blame DVS companies to just follow the whole hi-tech industry.

But I'm agree with you in some point, there's definitely something to do to not make hardware obsolete that fast and improving software stability instead of adding more and more (useless?) features when some basic/handy ones are missing !!!

Nowadays, too many things comes when djing: decks/players, audio interface / mixer, software and the computer. it's really a nightmare to maintain them when these things evolve in different wyas and speed.

The only long term solution for the obsolescence is the all-in-one solution that why I really like Rekordbox ecosystem and units like cdj 2000nxs2 and xdj-rx....

That's also why I hardly see a good future for Serato:
1/ Pioneer divorce
2/ New Rane-Traktor partnership
3/ DVS market too well established now (djs are still stuck with SSL, no really need of new features)
4/ Controllers market brings nothing really new and there are tons of units
5/ SDJ users are more and more complaining
6/ NO EMBEDDED SOLUTION !!!

I've tried Rekordbox, the software is not yet that mature and suffers some youthful issues but I think it's a question of months when Serato needs a deep strategy shift which takes longer!

a steady 90% load "a bit high"?

I would sweating my pants off with that kind of load during a live gig..

Yes 90% with everything activated at once for a test.
In a more common situation I'll be using 2 deck with master tempo, sync, 2 fx at once and a bit of loop/cues/roll which leave me plenty of "headroom". ;-)

aight. ; )

Serato does not give a shit. There are restrictions in SDJ that don't even make sense just to piss you off. You bought the controller now they can forget about you.

Way to add to the conversation.

Careful. He's connected. o.O

After doing the math, going the Rekordbox way would have me to :
- buy a deck to replace my V7
- buy RB DJ (139€)
- buy the DVS upgrade (109€)
- buy RekordBuddy 2.0 when it will be out to convert my data (70€)
318€ in software only and still no deck...

All that and probably the fact that on very next upgrade they could do the same as Serato did : no more C2D support.
A bit risky, Rekordbuddy is due since 1 year, Rekordbox probably need some adjustement.

I could actually go the Traktor way, I only need a deck, but still, no Rekordbuddy to make the jump and I don't know if the old Native Instruments SSL converter work that well.

I could stay with SeratoDJ but these bugs are really annoying and I'm not confident doing a gig with it. I was till i was using all-in-one controler, but this time with that setup I'm not confident at all.
So what I decided to do is going back on the releases :
1.7.8 : no midi ouputs
1.7.6 : randomly jump to the begining of the track
1.7.2 : a little bit more stable but the midi syntax is different so I had to redo my mapping.

Most of the version you can't move your pitch in sync for the internal player while loading a new track.

Then I remember of a very old software that was that good that I often see it at gigs : ScratchLive ! Yeah, this could be an option. My laptop is from the same era, the software was lightweight, stable, the box is cheap in 2nd hand, datas should be ok...

What would you do guys ?
- Rekordbox (more expensive)
- Traktor (learning curve)
- Older SDJ (bandaid)
- ScratchLive (back in time)

ssl!

it is now with the release of Reckordbox Video and new Update ---->Watchwww.youtube.com

I think VJs will love the new Pioneer unit, VideoDJs it's not such a big deal, but a nice option. The fact that 100000s of my cue points don't work in Rekordbox and the video output quality still isn't on par with ME (especially with what is now a basic thing like side fill), I will keep playing with it, but it's not my go to.

Dang Pioneer got the Video plugin before Traktor did?
They're really pushing hard on that software.

When I started doing videos, I started w/Serato, but found it not working well and had me switch to VDJ until I finally switched back last year.. there's still a few things that I miss from VDJ, which I hope Serato will incorporate down the road.

If their video plugin runs great on Windows, a lot of Windows SV users will probably jump ship.

You really gotta admire how Pioneer let all the other companies innovate and launch a product or feature then they come out with it years later with an awesome form factor and they get super credit for it. Their unofficial motto should be "You conceive it, we make it better".

Its very crappy and basic iv tried it there go at video 1% vs ME 100% its a good start but they got alot of festures to add.

Ok after thinking about this more, I think the real heat is that with the addition of video PIO does control both the hardware and software side of their destiny.

I think to get the TRUE impact of the update you do need that controller. Otherwise RB+Video is just on par with SV.

isn't that what today's business is about.

They do the same thing Apple does LOL

Yes agreed. Reminds me of the movie "Pirates of Silicon Valley". ;-)

Yep, Serato lacks in many departments, thats why i'm back on VDJ8.

Glad i bought VDJ with lifetime upgrades back in 2003 (for like US$19) because its pretty pricey these days.

thats a good score bro :)

Sorry man, but if $300 is going to break your budget you are in the wrong hobby/biz.

Been reading all these posts... Entertaining :D

i'm currently a 2012 MBP, 2.3 i7, 16gb ram, 512 SSD+2TB HDD <-- This works with EVERYTHING!

Been using serato officially since the first itch release (with the ns7) with that move, i could clearly see that numark and serato were on the right path to rule this biz... couple years later... WTF HAPPENED???

Years invested in serato and pioneer took a short time to out do them? [THINK ABOUT THIS FOR A BIT]

i've been testing a few other dj apps for the past few months, just to find a stable, reliable app that i can do my style of djing with, without issues and i have tried a few, i was completely shocked when i tested vdj the other day, i just might go back... won't be using rekordbox because i believe in one app to use with whatever setup i feel comfortable (controller, dvs, internal, etc.) IMO!

Funny, i've mixed for years into Traktor + Controller and Vestax Mixer, Since Vestax was dead, i've decided to test all software in order to found something that sound good.

What i've been testing now for nearly one year.

Blaze DJ
VDJ 8
Rekordbox DJ (without controller :()
Mixvibes Cross
algoriddim djay Pro
Mixxx 2.0
Future DJ Pro
PCDJ Dex


VDJ8 sound good but it seems some high frequencies are reduced/Filtered.i just hate the layout and also the skins.
Rekordbox DJ, sound exactly like Mixvibes cross, normal, there first started to develop it but i don't have a Pioneer controller.
Mixvibes Cross, a really nice software. I juste don't like one or two things but for the price,it is really good.
Algoriddim Djay Pro, not bad software, many controllers, good sound.
Mixxx 2.0, excellent software with many great options but some mappings are laking.
Future DJ Pro, not been able to test enough deeply but feel cheap software.
PCDJ Dex, look cheap too.
Blaze DJ has specials EQ, nearly no any midi controller accepter but a nice sound.

my three choices are going clearly for Traktor, Cross DJ and Serato DJ.

All the rest including VDJ, can be forgotten....

But my transitions works better in Serato, that is why i've choosen that software.

Now for sure, Serato can be improved but at any party where i am going, i do see Serato DJ. I live in europe, so i've never seen in a party any other software.

The stability of SDJ still makes me nervous.

I think the fact that so many DJs yearn back to SSL is quite telling for the future of Serato.

Is serato dj dead?
Dream on.
I don't think so , I have nothing against all the other software out there, I have try a number of them, for me Serato is the best by far. I am using 1.9.2 Beta, I play it for five hours with no problem at all.
So serato dj is going to be around for a long time, so to the team of serato dj I love the software, you guys are the BEST!!!

Personally I prefer Serato over Traktor or VDJ, but that is MY preference. Every DJ works in their own way. The trouble for me is SDJ is fine 99% of the time then crashes badly without warning. It makes me nervous.

I think this is a cycle. Embedded may well take over for the next phase.

Tested a few this weekend (also bought a SL2) :
Traktor 2.10 : not bad, I might need some time to get used to (master deck)
Cross 3.3 : I love the library but I really hate the GUI
ScratchLive 2.5 : clone/load are giving me some stutter/freeze
SDJ 1.7.2 : that sync and remote pitch is a mess

None of them can handle my V7 (minus SDJ), so it was a timecode experience and I don't think now I'll get back to that.

I have been said that VDJ can handle my motorized platter, I might give it a try but not a fan of the sound and the gui (was using VDJ 7 with a Denon HC4500).

Bizarrely, or obviously DVS in SDJ has worked fine!

It is funny how you get a thread like this that pops up on the Serato forums about all these people switching, but yet they are still here on this forum. ;)

Is Serato dead? Hardly and likely never will. I am glad that Pioneer put out a new competitive solution in Rekordbox DJ because it will help compete for innovation. Same goes for Denon finally updating Engine, and so on.

All that being said, Serato is still king of the hill (depending on your location) for a reason. If you don't need all the features, SSL will still work just it's unsupported. There was no reason for SSL to continue when converging the platform made economic sense for the company.

Personally I have still both SSL and SDJ running on the newest El Capitan release (10.11.5) on both my early-2011 MBP and my mid-2012 MBP. In general both are pretty solid [although I did have some glitches on my Saturday gig that seemed to be a power issue at the venue.] The thing is if you are so hyper critical of stability and still say have a SL1, you can still to this day run SSL on older hardware and have no issues. Personally I love my USB3 on my mid-2012 MBP which keeps things blazing fast on transfer speeds.

I believe Serato will still be a leader for a long time to come. I played around with a beta of Rekordbox DJ and was not impressed by it, certainly not enough to switch.

I totally agree, Was honestly hoping I would be since I been having an issue regarding software gain in serato lately for some odd reason it. I don't believe its changing the actual gain just what I am seeing in the software meters.

Over all I still prefer serato, granted with enough time I could become use to RDJ or that some issues may be solvable in the settings menu. Ie. Auto - loop starts playback. I was not impressed with the effects in RDJ and also didn't like lack of an extended view which is great when prepping songs etc..

One feature which seemed promising was the variable BPM detection though not sure how well it works since I only loaded a few tracks which majority were 4 on the floor. Would certainly be interesting if Serato implemented such a feature.

In any case looking forward to what the future holds for serato.

ParisCreative 7:54 PM - 4 July, 2016
It is funny how you get a thread like this that pops up on the Serato forums about all these people switching, but yet they are still here on this forum. ;)

I know. lol

SSL is probably the best thing with timecode, but timecode technology itself as some real limitations.
- cue
- pitch follow
- delay for speed calculation

I did use this back in the days (2004) but it's like vinyl, there are too many drawbacks that push them far from been efficient. It's half working for me, ergonomic is not there. I bought may be 3 Serato boxes in my life and end up resolding them, so I was often switching software.

Unfortunately, most of the software editors have decided to not support motorized platter. Even the SCS1D was a mess at that level, V7 have been saved by Serato Itch, Denon was forced to go hybrid (smart move imo).

I like to try different technology, platform and softwares. As long as SDJ was working I was happy with it but the midi is highly bugged once you try to do your own thing.

I'm guess you already had SSL installed and upgraded your OS to El Capitan because if you get a newer MBP that has El Capitan installed you won't even be able to download the SSL installer and be forced to use SDJ :(

You can install Yosemite on any MacBook Pro currently out. If you have to use SSL, that is still an option.

Im still using SSL. Best sofware ever created. Serato need to pull their shit together.

I agree. They're SLOWLY getting there with SDJ, but it should have been nailed a long time ago. I'm giving them until V2, if still inferior then I'm jacking DVS in and going USB CDJ.

Serato isn't almost "dead". It's a matter of choices. There is room in the DJ world for both. I am a Wedding DJ and I prefer Serato DJ.,. although Rekordbox has its pluses. It's like Pepsi vs Coke or the Whopper vs the Big Mac. They all survive. One might be more popular than the other, but I don't see either of these pieces of software "killing" the other.

One other note: There are some people who swear by Traktor or even Virtual DJ. More choices means more competition and that can only be a good thing for us, the customers.

IMHO

There is something can take down serato just for a moment: pioneer stops to produce gear or lock devices for serato support, and just for a moment, while other companies takes the place.

CDJs don't make what serato/traktor makes, vinyls neither. There is people in this discussion that uses a pair of cdj2knxs2 in HID mode, man... (Not complaining or judging, just pointing)

A software by pioneer that just had a clean path of development (toke years to create something with everything serato already done), on a time where the controllers and software are taking place on booths, where djs that only ride cdjs/mixers mixing and cutting have no more place, have no power to kill serato. I think.

Serato needs to look at traktor and learn how to integrate software and hardware in a package, not depending on pioneer/other gear.

(From other discussion)
Clubs can try to avoid 'laptop users' for new guys, but the bigger and rising names are using software and controllers/dvs, except for edm, and nobody cares about edm. (i'm kidding :P )

Mike Sinclair said something about it: there is market for a lot of differente people.
I mix only for friends on private parties, i have no intention to buy a pair of turntables/cdjs, its expensive and i'm addicted to serato.

(I want a pair of cdjs and a pro mixer (cdj 2k nxs and djm 900), but in Brazil, it costs U$ 12k, unaffordable to me)

Sorry by my english, hope your understand!
Cheers! ;)

I used to think that was absolutely true. But if the competition is over new users or making new users, that might not be true. If servicing pro users isn't worth competing for....

Valid point... and after all this reading, I decided to scope out RB again and I think I might mess around with it some more. I like Serato DJ AND Rekordbox DJ... not sure which I like more. LOL

I think it would be a perfect time for an upstart who caters exclusively to Pro users...

Interesting thought. A high premium pro dvs app for pro DJs,

SSL could have been that app.

SSL is STILL that app! Just no longer supported & updated :(

SSL is STILL that app! Just no longer supported & updated :(

Agreed!

Pro users end up being fickle dicks over time and start talking like a company's only function is to serve them. They end up being like the ex-Tesla customer who got his order cancelled after bad mouthing Elon Musk one too many times.

I don't think DVS deserve more interest. The technology is now primitive with so much limitation.

It's difficult to look back at it.

I bought an SL2 last week to check DVS with different softwares.
This was an absolute mess with Serato. How can people still swear by that ? With a turntable I can understand because it match the limitations but with an advanced CD player : no way ! You'd better go hybrid/hid/midi.

Actually pretty accurate. Not always the case but definately happens often.

Hmmm. Maybe.

I think its in a companies best interest to, meet the needs of long time core users/supporters especially if they were instrumental in the brand building.

I think focusing on a high quality proffessional product not only meets pros needs, but ultimately benefits the new users as well (they just my not realize it yet)

Maybe I'm wrong and the best corporate path is to build a great brand then unload crap at a premium.

I'm not saying serato is doing exactly that, and the new betas are encouraging - almost as if they were listening to the complaints....

I think new users start with brands because pros choose those brands.

Really, what are the limitations?

What is the replacement?




A cd player? Why?

Limitations ?
- there is a latency to catch the nominal speed. So when you start from full stop, there is a buildup happening into the signal analyse. After a while (depend of software) the computer know the real speed.
- when you want to cue somewhere else, same thing, you have a time frame for analyze to know, where you're on the vinyl so he can put you there into your file.
- when you try to drive the second deck with the pitch of the first one it has a very hard time to keep up the sync between both
- when you change the pitch, same thing again, the response is not instant, again slight delay into the action.

I have some time tonight and tested some softwares with a cd player :
Traktor>VDJ>Cross>SDJ>SSL
(how fast does it understand timecode behavior)

Traktor>SSL>Cross>SDJ>VDJ
(how accurate it is to replicate)

As you can see with that audio detection/analyse there is a sweet spot to have something responsive AND accurate. I couldn't test Rekordbox but hope to do it soon.

I'm using a Numark V7 actually, best of both world for me. Rotation + instant response thanks to the midi.

I see so many DJs that use CDJ (even high end 2000NXS) to simply play a cd with only a noisemap : what a waste.
No access to loops, cues points, Master Tempo, no display on the screen, nothing. Even if Serato HID is not perfect, you have access to more juice than a simple cd or usb with dvs.
Even Denon have a hybrid mode that can give you best of both world : dvs+midi.

So as I said earlier : midi (V7), hid (CDJ) or hybrid (DNS3900) give you so much control over a simple dvs setup. Things are integrated in a tighter way than having to use Dicers or SP1/Neon, more reactive doesn't feel sluggish or laggy and don't forget that dvs analyse also add some load on your system too.

Just a slight correction. You do realize that the Pioneer 2000 series CDJs do have loops, cue points and Master tempo built into the deck with display on screen. So it's not as bland as you're making it out when using cds (or mp3s natively) on them. But I do get your point ...

I thought you were talking about DVS as in DigitalVinylSystem.

With CD, yes I can see those limitations, but for actual turntables and vinyl its a different story.

Yes, but when you use them as a deck into a dvs system (with a cd or usb) all of these aren't reflected into the software. Insert a Serato cd into the slot and see by yourself.


What I said. kind of works with TT to replicate their natural behavior but can't with CDJ.

Even if DVS refer to vinyl, a cd or usb file with a timecode/noisemap is still considered as a DVS unit. ;)

I thought if you use Absolute Mode on CD players when using timecode CDs you can use the loops and Cue points on the player?

It's been a few years since I used CDJs with Serato.

It's either TT or Controllers.

So then the limitations are when using CDJ as DVS, not turntables with DVS?

You can absolutely use as in actively at any specific time but it is applied to the time code itself and not the file as applicable with hid. While useful it is not nearly as defective as hid yet neither is dvs as a whole. Dvs (as in tt's) does exactly what straight vinyl does while even adding a bit more but in reality tt's themselves are the limitation. They add issues, expense (ongoing and maintenance etc.) and reduce function. Pound for pound this is a fact. While I get why peeps use them there is no denying that even the most basic pio cdj running hid will beat out tt (traditional) any day. That being said as an art nothing can quite compare to the tt. The best way to actually connect to the music and such imo.

What TT limitations?

Are you talking about buttons?

The actual limitation between these systems is absence of a rotating platter.

And as far as cost, Turntables (Technics) have proven to be far more cost effective over time, even profitable.

Yes, understood where you want me to go and I'm agree with you. ;)

DVS works for turntables because it was designed to. CDJ however was added without any specific development, this is why they're not working that good into a dvs system and seems so clumsy.

All relative: while owning quite a few of each I maintain my opinion. There are limitations for days tbh.

Connect straight to iPhone,
Connecting via Ethernet hub to create dj link network
Connecting ddj-sp1 direct
Reading direct from Hdd/sd/ card/thumb drive
Connecting via digital in/out

These are just the connections ............. I am on my phone so tbh I will get back to this later as there are an astounding amount.

Listen this is coming from someone who loves tt's as well but I call a spade a spade in my world.
feet wet with all possible solutions.

And not to get crazy here but if you think cdj platters don't rotate.......... Well that's a problem in itself. Why because they don't spin on their own? n speak volumes and it is clearly not just pin on their own?

Don't mind the babble at the end. Sorry attempt at cutting/pasting on iPhone lol........... Started to write some other limitations but honestly it was just too much.

Its not breaking my budget dude, not sure how you drew that conclusion, i'm just happy with the price i paid (and personally think that $300 is well worth it too). Have seen a lot of negative comments in other threads regarding the price of VDJ.

Was free with my sz otherwise I'm not positive I would have the full version.

Connecting to an iPhone would end up having to create a department at Serato just to support that aspect. It would be one thing if Apple would allow their device to act as a hard drive (which it does not) it's another trying to support a proprietary applications.

Ethernet would be interesting, but that means a new connector and a technology that people would have to invest in new equipment to take advantage of. (Hey I am sure they would like this to bring in new revenue).

Digital in/out, very old tech and probably not worth the investment.

Reading direct from HD. Well that would be reinvisioning the entire product itself. Serato is laptop controlled and relies on Windows/OS-X to connect to it's various devices. While an interesting concept it would be essentially require "Serato OS" to be able to mount and read directly off of storage. Again not that it's a bad thing, but it would be a wholly different product.


Well one can always get the Denon SC3900. Motorized platters so you get the best of both worlds. :)

pariscreative.com

Could .............. Again if you are into that. I get all the other stuff and as I said it is all relative. There is no universally "better" solution but the cdj without a doubt is the more capable (in terms of features, function & capabilities) player creating as few limitations as possible. I would not want the extra weight to have rotating platters (among other reasons) but if I get the itch for rotating (and it certainly happens) I want the real deal. My ns7ii has been sitting in the storage room for this very reason.

Yeah as good as the SC3900 is there is still nothing like the real thing. Then again as a wedding DJ with things like sunlight, heat, a dance floor that jumps when a crowd hits it; that is when I will press my Denons into action.

Is a CDJ more capable? Sure, especially if you want to run CD's. But at least for me I still get the feel of vinyl and a moving platter under my fingertips when I can't use the real thing. :)

I'm not sure if id also call it the best of both worlds though. More like a healthy portion of each in one very attractive (imo) package. Speaking of that link though the reloops are a decent portion of each as well. From what I hear they are solid tt's but tbh I have not heard much on the midi functions. Any thoughts?

Not trying to slam the denons in any way btw as I know they are solid.

And btw to keep on topic I by no means Think serato is dead. Just as we are describing there are multiple solutions within sdj there are also multiple solutions in the sw itself. Nothing wrong with using multiple platforms. A tt may be your solution for one gig while a cdj or controller may be for another. Sdj may be ur sw for the tt while Rb is for another. With rekord buddy around the corner this can all be one streamlined workflow so to speak so things are becoming even more universal............. Imo this is in no way a bad thing. How could it be?

Honestly I seldom use the midi function of the Reloops. I got so used to using my Rane 62 and I don't go over using more than 5 cue points on most tracks. The buttons are competent although they are a tad squishy.

Yes back on topic. Serato is alive and will likely to continue to be the choice for most US DJs that are not terribly interested in live production or something like Flip suits their needs. For me I keep my workflow simple and hell SSL suits my needs (but I did upgrade to SDJ).

Well it works well as it should. I used flip extensively this weekend to make a promo tape for an artist, like he has many tracks that he was featured in and used flip to edit his portions.

Serato just need to slow down a bit on the licensing stuff and focus on squashing bugs in preparation for the big 2.0 release.

I think that is the goal of 1.9.2. Stability. Plus SSL 1.9.2 was super stable so I think this will hopefully be mimicking it.

Exactly what I was thinking. Thus far it seems they didn't do to bad of a job. Solid gigs all weekend. Running 1.9.2 live with 1.9.1 ready to go on backup laptop just in case.

^Yep agreed. 1.9.2 (SDJ) has be rock solid thus far for me and my stable of DJs as well.

yep 1.9.2 is definitely the best yet, hopefully a sign of things to come.

In Asia,Only teen DJs use RekordBox.
Because some DJ Teachers told them RB is better than SDJ under table.
Ironic,those DJ techcers still use serato dj in clubs.
Because Pioneer DJs sponsor to those DJs.
So many DJs can sell Pioneer stuffs in facebook.They only push pioneer to make money.

I think SDJ is better.
I feel Pioneer DJ changed from 2012.
They want to make much much much money.
They will do anything. cheat, lie , hype , ... everything

I think each person will have your own impression about the products, I have today a Pioneer DDJ-SX2 and I used Serato for some years, I tested Rekordbox and I decided to buy a license because I feel more confortble with the Software, in my impression this is more stable, I like the effects (color and beat effects) better and also will provide some advantages to me because I am considering to move away from Controllers and use CDJ, XDJ + DJM mixer next year.

So for be is almost decided that I will not use Serato DJ anymore, based in my experience and perception this what is the best way for me, but for sure for other persons maybe they are going to have a different perception and will make different decision, there is no right or wrong but each decision fit for one person but not for the other.

:)

Sérgio

Exactly and well put. Who is to say what is better for you but yourself. No point in putting your head in the sand and pretending Serato is perfect. It is NOT. RBDJ is not either. Neither is Traktor, VDJ, Djay Pro or any other app. These are all tools and and no one tool is best for all jobs.

Serato is alive and well. As a matter of fact other apps (Rekordbox especially) are becoming more like SDJ and not the other way around. It was RB that made the leap to laptop (performance mode) late last year in favor of how other DJ apps do things. A smart move on their part IMO. It is actually exciting to see where this will all lead and I hope they do well. There is room for all anyways.

Yep agreed.( 1.9.2 beta) has be rock solid so far, I play it on Saturday for 6 hours,and on Sunday for 5 hours with no problem at all. we are on the way SERATO, very nice job guys!!!

Well put gentlemen ... ;-)

I'm glad this tread is turning into a very constructive conversation on all the different solutions now available in the DJ industry. Currently, I still rely heavily on SSL for my gigs. I use SDJ primarily at home but I have tested it at a few smaller gigs. Since purchasing the Denon MCx8000, I'm SLOWLY attempting to transition off of software/laptop use. I like the convenience of leaving the laptop at home and just playing off of USB sticks.

Which brings up engine. Have not had the pleasure myself but I know Mojaxx (djcity) gave a decent review and it seems pretty promising. It also seems denon (inMusic) is putting some emphasis on it currently. If it gains traction I'm sure this will be added to the rekord buddy roster as well.