How old is your mac

I believe I bought it around 2009/2010

Check craigslist or eBay...Students sell them cheap as shit just to get new ones.

Thank you, I will check e-bay and craigslist!

If you insist on going window just make sure you have a solid return policy. Windows can work great but unfortunately it's a gamble sometimes.

My personal advise is never gamble when finances are tight and always go with the guaranteed option which is always mac in regards to Serato. I recommend you be patient wait and save until you can afford a used 2012 MacBook Pro or better.

What's your budget, maybe we can assist you finding a good mac ?

It doesn't matter which you pick so long as you choose from a quality brand and a quality reseller. Ironically, I've had less issues with my HP Omen than other DJ friends have had with their Macbooks (never had Serato or Traktor crash during a set *knock on wood*). Take care of your equipment and it'll take care of you.

PS.

Don't listen to ANYBODY that says "it doesn't matter what you pick" that's a big RED flag. Lol

Did you miss the part where I said "so long as you choose from a quality brand"? Seriously anyone who knows anything about computers knows it doesn't matter what you pick so long as it's a well-built laptop. Where do you think Apple gets the parts for their Mac line-up? HINT: Roughly the same parts that are in my HP Omen.

But where does Microsoft get their OSX operating system parts from? They don't. This is the key part.

That literally makes no sense. The hardware isn't dependent on the software.

Well let me be the first to bring you up to speed on common knowledge.


It's NOT the parts that make a Mac superior with Serato...........



It's the operating system.

Which is exactly why El Capitan has worked so well from the beginning....................oh wait a minute...........

Let me bring you up to speed on common knowledge. My HP Omen works just as well with Serato DJ as a Macbook Pro Retina will. Period. It only comes down to which OS you prefer to use for whatever reasons you may have (I play BF3 on my laptop, so Windows is a must).

Software running on software.... come on catch up haha. But really it's just Serato software runs better and more optimised on Apples OSX than on Windows. The other gamble with Windows computers is the amount of different hardware used in the computers and different driver versions. As apple make OSX and the Laptops its much easier for them to control and tweak the hardware. So these are what are the advantages of using a mac with Serato.

But yes what you say about pcs and macs using same hardware in some models is very true.

Also if you go PC get windows 10 as it seems tobe the best OS on the windows side so far. Seeing really good reports (Audio only use) so far. Even with my own testing.



Ha ha yep but windows 10 was also not supported to start with and heck windows 8 took nearly two years to be supported. and Windows still has a bug not fixed for SSL Rane SL-1 MP4 TTM57SL on iseries processors. So yes on both systems it's not always perfect.

AkaTrap

Believe it or not my expertise and preference is windows so I actually wish you were right.

But that dream and debate was buried many years ago by diehard windows fans like you and I.

You're clearly new here so I guess you get a pass. Lol.

I used SDJ for Windows 10 and didn't have problems......within Serato. Had to go back to 8.1 because automatic updates = something's going to get bricked one way or another.

When was the last time Serato supported an OS when it was released? I don't think they have ever supported an operating system right as it was released, even on the Mac side. I know Traktor supported Windows 10 very well when it was released, but certain hardware (my old 4Trak) didn't until months later.

The screens come from Samsung or LG, the logic board is a custom one from Intel. They don't make their own hardware. If anything the only thing they make themselves is the aluminum shell and the OS, which is just a closed-source, heavily-modified version of UNIX. The CPU is from the same company as mine (Intel), the GPU is from Nvidia unless it's the latest refresh (that has an AMD GPU that's hilariously slower than mine), the storage is a PCIe proprietary M.2 based SSD (like mine, except non-proprietary). Macs benefit from being based on a closed ecosystem because your drivers are exactly the same as the guy next to you (minus the differences in specs, but I digress). Other than the benefits of a closed ecosystem, it doesn't matter so long as it's from a quality brand. It quite literally does not matter if it's a PC or a Mac. If it's well-built, it will work, and it'll work very well. Period. No need to spend all that money (if you can't afford to) on a pointless hype-train.



OK. I'll let you explain to me why I have yet to have a single issue with Serato in Windows 7 (an OS my laptop doesn't even officially support), 8.1 and Windows 10 but I've seen everything from audio issues to El Capitan issues to Macbooks straight shitting themselves in only a year of being an active DJ (and considering how Retinas aren't exactly user-repairable, those are stupid expensive repairs out of warranty). Don't worry. I'll wait.


Seriously, if you can afford it and you like them, buy another Macbook. If not, spend your money wisely and do some research.

You still don't get it or listen to a word we said.



Which is why we say buy a mac.



What does this have anything todo with it???

Who said you ''SHOULD'' have issues? I wouldn't expect you to have any major issues. But you never can be 100% until you buy it tweak it and once it works leave everything alone.

A. Apple don't make the laptops minus the shell and the OS that goes on them. That was a rebuttal to your previous comment. Again, they're all the same parts. They'll do the same job, just with different OSes. Wanna talk about optimization, tell Serato to release a 64-bit version of SDJ, and tell Pioneer to release 64-bit drivers. Then we can talk about optimization.

B. "spending your money wisely and doing your research" =/= buying a Mac. Again, no point in spending over $1,000 on a Macbook if you don't have an OS preference when a PC works just as fine. The OP even states he doesn't have a lot of bread to burn on a Macbook, and used pre-Retina MBPs in good condition are going to fetch a nice penny online.

I wouldn't exactly buy a refurbished Dell laptop, though. Their quality control isn't exactly something to write home about. You'd be better off with some Core i5 HP, Toshiba, or Lenovo laptop with 8GB of RAM than trying to purchase a refurbished Dell.

Not all benefits from 64bit you know. some things will run worse under 64bit for many users.



NOT true when you have apple having the hardware custom designed in some cases other yes the same but on a PC it is the hardware manufacturer making the drivers and has no idea about what other hardware will be used this is when you get driver conflicts and bad usb latency because of it. This you do not get on a Mac as apple has chosen the hardware to work with it's OSX the best it can. i guess you get the same benefits using Microsofts own hardware now days.



He wants a MID 2012 macbookpro with Yosmite ideally and i would say that be about same price as a windows 10 laptop of decent quality.

Yep Stick to at least an i5 and 8GB RAM. in whatever you choose.

If your laptop runs worse with 64-bit programs, it's time to get a new laptop. 64-bit simply means it'll better utilize the CPU and RAM of the system (32-bit programs are limited to only using a max 4GB of RAM), which any high-mid to high-end system would benefit from. Case and point, 64-bit Traktor analyzes songs faster on my 4700HQ than Serato does.



In other words, Macs benefit from being a part of a closed ecosystem. I said that already. They still use the same parts. They're modified based on Apple's request to the manufacturer. I don't have driver conflicts on my machine. At all. Even in the slightest. Because it's well-built and I maintain it well.



A mid-2012 MBP with Yosemite is going to be a Retina. In good condition, that's $1,200 bare minimum, assuming he's in the states and is shopping online. That's $100 less than what I paid for my HP Omen, brand new, with a MUCH better GPU, faster storage (though that doesn't matter much for Serato) and no risk of screen burn-in. You can get a brand new Dell XPS 15 for $300 less than that straight from their website if he HAD to get something brand-new.

Yes but it would work/run BETTER on the mac sigh.



Two different software so you can't say just because it works like that it will in SDJ. also CPU is used to analyze not RAM and RAM being the advantage of 64bit support. since Serato fixed the large library issue i have not yet needed any reason to use more than 1.2gb of ram. So what benefit would it have? we have already seen the performance of the new GUI tech put into serato dj be worse! and that was done ready for 64bit support. so doesn't look good.



Not every machine will but IT IS a 100% gamble to wether that be the case.
Using programs like latency monitor can show you of the conflicts.

i could buy every MAC in pc world they would all work fine out the box with sdj installed.
if i did the same for every pc only some would work out the box fine with no issues. Some would be unusable others would need tweaking.

Also do not forget the amazing support you get with apple at apple stores. NO ONE comes close to that.

Anyway i think everything has been covered here. So the OP can make his own choice now. The thread is just repeating the same stuff over and over just worded different.

jasonjp good luck in whatever you end up going for.

Nope the mid 2012 was the last UNIBODY mac in 13'' and 15'' you can pick these up at good prices if you shop around.

2011 is the last unibody non-retina 15" Macbook Pro. They still make the non-retina 13" Macbook Pro. Any Mid-2012 15" Macbook Pro is going to be a Retina.



Jesus Christ. I KNOW CPU is utilized when songs are being analyzed. 64-bit Traktor took 50 seconds to analyze 80 songs. Serato DJ takes almost twice as long to analyze the exact same songs, and Serato DJ already analyzes songs fairly rapidly on my laptop. That's the beauty of a quad-core i7, even more so when a 64-bit program can fully utilize it. Of course 64-bit won't magically make Serato DJ work better. It has to be engineered properly to take advantage of what the x86-64 bit architecture brings to the table.



It's NOT a 100% gamble. Once again, you do research, you buy from quality companies. No gambles. Period. None whatsoever. Poorly-made PCs will have problems. Poorly-maintained Macbooks will also have problems.



El Capitan. Your argument is now invalid.



So long as you're willing to pay for it :) and AppleCare ain't cheap.

You really are clueless arnt you! SIGH... Writing this on my MID 2012 unidody mac that does not exist SIGH



If using Rane hardware yes that is true, go back to do this test when windows 10 first came out again ''Your argument is now invalid''



Again whats this got todo with serato? Rekordbox dj takes days longer to analyze than serato would both 32bit they all analyze different ways and different information you need todo Traktor 32 vs 64 to see the benefits.



it is very cheap for what it is. and apple free fixes for owning up to failed hardware are amazing unlike other manufacturers that leave you in the shit with no one to contact most of the time.

but even with the standard warranty it is great.

Considering the refresh was in mid-2012, the refresh that replaced your unibody Macbook originally released in 2011, yes I'm clueless.



Oh, you mean back when Serato didn't officially support Windows 10? I can say the same about when Serato didn't officially support the latest version of Mac OS X, because they never do. That's why people on the forums always tell others to WAIT before they update their OS. Once again, you have no argument. Your original statement was about how seamless Serato works with Macs. I already countered it by mentioned El Capitan. Pioneer hardware doesn't even work with the latest El Capitan update, but I can update Windows 8.1 as much as I want, or even "upgrade" to Windows 10 and still use every piece of Pioneer equipment under the sun. The same goes for Rane hardware. You know those also don't work under El Capitan, yet, right? You're aware of that, right? Your argument, if you even have one at this point, is still invalid.

Matter of fact, go look at the threads of people complaining about the stuttering waveforms in the latest versions of Serato DJ. The vast majority of them are running MBPr models.



You don't even know what you're arguing about anymore.

A. I was talking about optimization. Once again, 64-bit Traktor is better optimized to use resources than 32-bit Serato is. That's a fact. You can't argue against that. Period.

B. I know how long Rekordbox takes to analyze songs. I downloaded the free version to test out the Rekordbox DJ trial. It's one of the reasons why I don't like Rekordbox.

C. I started on Traktor, back when 2.6.8 was the latest version. As in, back when multi-core support was buggy as all hell to the point where you were better off not using it, and it was still a 32-bit program. Back then Traktor took almost two hours to do the same job Serato DJ did in 30 minutes. So yes, I've done Traktor 32-bit vs 64-bit. But if you were as tech-savvy as you think you are, you'd know it would be a waste of time to do a comparison because of the advantages 64-bit programs have against 32-bit programs.




Again, if you pay for it. Once that warranty runs out, you're paying for it. If you don't buy AppleCare within your year warranty, you're paying for it. I couldn't even have them troubleshoot an issue I had with an old white Macbook without them asking me for $45 just to talk to them on the phone, and that happened the day my year warranty expired.

But on those PCs that are simply a "100% gamble" as you fallaciously call it, my last laptop, an HP Pavilion 6145dx, lasted three years without me ever needing to call HP about it. Matter of fact it still works. All I have to do is put the RAM back in, give it a storage drive, re-install Windows 7 and all the drivers and it would be ready to run at this very second, well beyond any warranty ANY computer manufacturer will offer you. But then again, I take care of my equipment.

So go ahead, keep cherry-picking my comments thinking you have a point.

i'm not wasting anymore time on a troll that has no idea what they are talking about and repeating myself a million times. Really just because you are broke and can't afford a mac you have to slate it and slam it and try prove some out dated cheap windows laptop is better when all evidence shows otherwise. Never mind let's move on maybe one day you will wake up and smell the coffee.

EVERYONE BURN YOUR Macs and buy and old windows 7 windows laptop quick! it's the way togo they have the same doorbell as a mac so are the best. sigh

LOL ad-hominem. Good job, not only did you not even address anything I said (because you can't), you went on some irrelevant tangent. Did you forget I said I use a $1,600 HP Omen? As in roughly the same specs as a Macbook Pro Retina? Or are you just going to side-step that one as well? Or did you forget that you were actually agreeing with me a few comments ago? You don't even have enough common sense to realize that I didn't even slam Macs. Everything I said is factual.


ANYWAY, OP, don't listen to anyone that doesn't know anything about technology. Do your research before making a decision. ANY LAPTOP that at least has an i5 with 8GB of RAM will suit you well, so long it's from a quality manufacturer. If you can't afford a Macbook, either buy something from Lenovo, HP, Toshiba, or Asus, or try finding an older (2011 or older) Macbook off eBay or something, but if you do, make sure it's a well-reviewed reseller and not just someone trying to toss away a laptop they didn't take good care of. Some of the Dell models are actually good laptops, but considering how their higher-end models tend to have coil whine (do you even know what that is, Woolsey?), I wouldn't choose them as a first option.

i addressed EVERYTHING already just scroll up to each one of your repeated useless points for the answer.

you are just on loop over and over if it was 2006 id give you the time but it's 2016 and everyone but you has court up on this info. so no i'm not going to keep wasting my time. again look above for the answers to your repeated questions.

Apparently the Mac versus PC debate is over because this thread didnt blow up today...

It's over because one of the people in it didn't know what they were talking about. If you can't even tell me the benefits between 64-bit vs 32-bit, you shouldn't be giving advice on what laptop someone should buy.

So tel me the 100% facts what Serato 64bit will benefit?

All i said was it will not be the end all of Serato issues. sure people with huge libraries have wanted this so they can use more RAM as serato loads the database into RAM. And i mentioned how Serato put in this new GUI tech as it was needed for them to move towards 64bit. and it made the gui WORSE. So from that alone we can't say just because serato make a 64bit all issues will be gone. You used a Traktor 64bit vs Serato 64bit for your argument then came back to say you have indeed done a 32bit vs 64bit traktor but even then you say there was a bug in the 32bit version so the results you see could of just been the bug was fixed.

Do i know if a 64bit version of Serato will be perfect? Nope and no one does.

When looking at my laptop with Serato now and think i wish there was a 64bit version SO.... I can't point a finger to what or why it would be needed since they fixed the large library out of memory bug.

Would i be mad if there was a 64bit version hell no and of corse it is something it will move to in time. I just wanted to know what YOU hoped would be better in the software if there was a 64bit version.

Ha ha Rule 101 don't comment in a MAC VS PC thread, oppps haha

I think you missed the part where I said:



I said that two days ago. I LITERALLY addressed your post two days before you even typed it.

And just in case you think the performance boost I saw as only due to a bug fix (btw NI did fix multi-core issue in 2.8.0 I think):



In other words, when engineered properly, 64-bit programs can benefit greatly from the advantages 64-bit processors have over their (hardly non-existent at this point) 32-bit counterparts. So when you combine that with being able to utilize multiple cores, on top of parallel processing (really nice in Traktor), the 64-bit version of Traktor flies. I actually analyzed 4,000 songs in around 15 minutes. 32-bit would take longer because it wouldn't take full advantage of my i7 and it wouldn't be able to utilize as much RAM.

And for the love of God, don't come back and say



because a lot of the people just in these forums are running 15" Macbook Pro Retinas, aka a laptop that not only is built to handle 64-bit workloads, it was designed to efficiently handle such workloads. The hardware wouldn't be the reason it'd run worse, it'd be the software.

Serato 32bit version has done this for ever. So educate me here :-)

64bit uses more processing power does it not than a 32bit so lower end CPUs would take a hit would they not?





Ha ha abit like all the posts above you wrote, Sorry this is so far down my priorities list so i forgot.



For sure and let's face it that's going to happen from the drivers or the software.

So i still don't see why a 64bit version is vital the 32bit is running sdj fine. and it is for you apart from you find the Analyzing to slow. You really wana trying rekordboxes 4000files would prob take a week haha (ok slightly over the top)

and i guess for YOUR record i am NOT saying in general 32bit is better than 64bit in anyway. Simply that would 64bit at the moment bring any major advantages to SDJ? i am not saying there wont be and shouldn't be a 64bit version. But from every conversation i have seen about the 32 vs 64 there is some big plusses to 64bit over 32bit but some downsides. Do i know what these are? HELL NO! Could this be programmers writing shit because they are not good enough? hell yeah sure it could it's the internet right!

AND just so i can leave this damn thread! BUY A HP WINDOWS 7 LAPTOP P-L-E-A-S-E as it will run Serato software BETTER or at least THE SAME as any MACBOOKPRO! We heard it here first from akaTRAP on the internet. ;-)

Goodnight all.

It would be faster. That's it. Literally. It would be faster. It would make it easier, for example, to re-analyze a library after switching/restoring a laptop. It would make adding hundreds of songs after binge diving into pools faster and easier. That's why I've been praising Traktor for it. It's much faster. Even opening and shutting it down is faster, though that's thanks to my SSD in a lot of ways.



And now you understand why I said the OP should get AT LEAST a Core i5 or better with 8GB of RAM. And not one of those ultrabook-spec Core i5's either.






I'm sure it is, even though every time I've made a post in this thread, you've replied to it minutes later.





When did I say it was vital? I said it would be faster. Because it would be faster. Vital =/= faster (unless faster absolutely matters to you).



They eat up more resources. That and any simplistic program (Word processors for example) won't even benefit from being 64-bit because they wouldn't need the extra resources in the first place. I'm not a programmer (used to be, hated it). I'm just tech-savvy. What does the Internet have to do with any of this? The Internet is not at fault for your lack of knowledge.



Still ignores the part where the OP said they couldn't afford a Macbook, hence why I recommended a PC because it would do just fine, and also how I mentioned my HP OMEN was the laptop that performs on par with a Macbook Pro Retina. Because it does. They use relatively the same parts.......except my GPU is better.

But of course, you missed that part, didn't you? Reading comprehension isn't a priority for you.

haha BUT yet i understand that Serato software is written on and for a MAC then ported over to windows and has been KNOWN for many years that it just works/runs better on a mac. For Video even more so. Just like VDJ runs better on Windows than it does a mac and even more so for video runs better on windows.

its like you said 64bit being better than 32bit is down to the software programers... So can you not see that is the same case with Serato software, the programers are better at programing the software for the machintosh platform than they are for windows.

Maybe you are new around here and missed it? maybe do a search see what you come up with or buy a mac and run some tests i duno.


Which my macbook would still run SERATO software better, you can have macs running serato software much better than windows with much lower spec. Just remember i am ONLY comparing MAC VS PC for SERATO software ONLY. You told OP to get a windows laptop because hes tight on cash but saying he must buy an expensive one. that makes sense lol



Not from the post you are on about it was not minuets!



Can see why you hated it LMFAO. But i am no programmer at all. Just been around these forums and other Serato Specialist sites and have done support for serato users for years and helped thousands and read many many threads in my time. but hey ho.

Speaking about my experience last year: I purchased a Dell Inspiron 15 Signature Edition Laptop (i5, 8GBRAM, 1TB) in June of 2015.

This was replacing my 2010 Acer (i3, 4GB Ram). The 2010 Acer laptop was struggling running my Numark Mixdeck although my backup DDJ Ergo performed with out hiccups on it.

I was sceptical about getting a new windows laptop, thinking it might not run issue free. But I decided on the Dell bought directly from Microsoft - with Windows 8 with a nice clean edition (ie no bloatware). Got an amazing deal on it at the time ($499 CAD).

I gigged with it all summer and fall of 2015. I updated it to Windows 10 over the christmas month. I've gigged with it a few times in 2016. All in all no issues that I can report. Updating to Windows 10 actually improved other non dj functions ie better connectivity

pre Christmas I was running 1.7.6. to 1.7.8.
Since Christmas to now im running 1.8.0.


Latency is set 2MS
using all FX packs
I do not use Pitch N Time or Video (laptop doesn't have dedicated Graphics cards).

All in all happy with the my Windows purchase. I would recommend this laptop if you are running a similiar setup.

RJ

Man those jerky waveforms people are complaining about really does mean Serato works better on a Mac than it does PC, huh?




When did I ever say he must buy an expensive laptop? Go ahead and point that out to me. I'll wait. While I wait, I'll point out that you can get a Windows laptop with a Core i7, 8GB of RAM, and a TB hard drive for half the price my laptop costs.

Just for shits and giggles, unless you bought a Macbook with a dedicated GPU (and I know for a fact your laptop's GPU doesn't hold a candle to mine), it'll run Serato Video WORSE than my laptop.



And yet I understand more about technology. Go figure.

Gonna have to stop you there. The only reason this is an issue is because Mac users are used to buttery smooth waveforms of which have never been achievable for Windows users. I am a fan and user of both platforms (and I mean that) but that was the most unfair post I have seen on this thread.

This is me using all expansions while running DVS at 1 ms and 30 screen updates per second on only one of my 13" Dual Core i7 MBP's. My 15" quad cores are even better.

www.dropbox.com

Now understand this is a previous version of SDJ as the waveforms are currently not as they should be but let us not pretend for one second this won't be fixed and things won't go back to how they should............


Video I won't even go into. I will point out Mix Emernegcy is not even available for Windows so not sure how video could ever be better on a Windows machine?



This is a dead horse and has been for years but peeps are entitled to their opinions indeed. I will say I prefer Windows 9 times out of 10. The fact remains that Serato runs better on Mac and there are far too many music apps I need that are ONLY available on Mac and or iOS to not utilize these platforms.

A Mac run video on SERATI worse than a windows pc ok sorry but LMFAO

But VDJ yep yours would blow my mac out the water, like you have already said its all about how the software has been programed. And in this case serato has always been programed better on the mac side. Just like VDJ always has the windows side.

anyway in done this combo has it all,

GT 650m vs GTX 860m. I don't need to say anything else.

Anyone remember the Red Bull Iscratch session with 40 of the best scratch DJ's on the planet?

There is a reason everyone in this video is using the S9 and PLX's................ they were promoting them

There is also a reason each and EVERY DJ there is using a MacBook Pro which is NOT being promoted................

djworx.com

I have heard recent reports that the audio is working better than ever before with SDJ on Windows and this is great news in an otherwise very shady relationship between Serato and Windows. Can't we just be happy about that? I am VERY happy to say things are looking good indeed on the Windows side. If you choose Windows there is a great chance things will be OK. At the end of the day though I know even now the waveforms are not where Mac users are used to either and I highly doubt they ever will be. I have show that same video (actually that is why I made it LOL) to some users with $4,000 + Windows laptops fit for NASA and upon seeing that they were certainly not happy.

I offer the dame challenge. If you can run your laptop at 1 ms with DVS & pitch n Time on and 30 FPS with waveforms like that simply provide the video and that will be that. I would welcome it as I will be looking for a new Windows Laptop soon and this would be welcomed news indeed.

The way the software is coded and the fact you can't get Mox emergency on WI does I don't need to say anything else!

Hold on, earlier you said.......




Guess you're not doing that, anymore, huh?

Mix Emergency is a third party expansion pack of Serato serato.com and I honestly though if you do video for a living it is assumed if you use SV you use ME.

In other words:
Serato Video to use ME
You need ME to properly use Serato Video.

Although no it is not by any means necessary as Serato Video does work on its own just fine for some. It just doesn't offer even a glimpse of what ME does is all.

So from looking at that, there doesn't seem to be anything mentioning GPU requirements for Mix Emergency, and that Serato Video is the one with minimum GPU specs. So since I was originally "criticized" (incorrectly) for not making an apples-to-apples comparison, I'm going to stick to talking about Serato Video and not Mix Emergency, since it's not available for Windows.

The fact still remains that a GT 650m would indeed not run Serato Video as well as a GTX 860m. It doesn't matter if software is well-optimized for the hardware or not. More powerful hardware (typically those from the same manufacturer, in this case Nvidia), will always outperform the lesser-grade hardware. That should be common sense.

I don't even know why this discussion is still going. The original poster said he didn't have enough money to spend on a Macbook. That's why I recommended a PC because he can get a nicely-speced PC and not have to spend over $1,000 for it. That's nice that the waveforms aren't jittery like they are on Windows. Personally, I don't care since I don't have that bad of Serato face. At the end of the day, I can still use Serato DJ well with no issues running on a Windows laptop. I've actually had less issues using Windows for DJ'ing than my friends have running Macbooks, though that's no fault on Serato minus the recent issues they're having with 1.8.x, but that's another discussion.

BTW, I'll explain to you why those 40 DJ's used Macbooks. They're convenient compared to Windows. If I had enough money to buy all the hardware I want, I'd pay for that quick convenience and buy a Macbook Pro Retina, use it only for DJ'ing, then build a desktop PC for FL Studio and gaming. That's a huge selling point for Macs. They're convenient, even for those that aren't so tech-savvy. On some of the hardware, you don't even have to install drivers for your equipment (NS7III for example). Mac users don't have to download drivers for the DDJ SR like I did.

I do agree but the most valuable part of this convenience is they just work. It is as simple as that. 99 times out of 100 when they don't work it is the software you are using and not Apple that messed up. From where I am sitting the reason the recent issues between Rane, Pioneer & Serato is such a BIG deal is it was Apple for once that pretty much broke everything for everyone.

You certainly sound like you know what you are talking about which is why I am not trying to argue nor am I REALLY trying to say go one way or another. Things ARE looking better for Windows (again from what I have seen and heard) and it is becoming more and more common to see DJ's saying they are running Serato just fine with Windows.

Bottom line it is obvious you are happy with your laptop and who am I to question that. Different strokes for different folks.


Not gonna lie I was speaking with mu father the other day (who JUST started DJing but knows computers very well) and he said he has zero issues with SDJ on his (admittedly) not so hot Windows machines. BTW this is coming from his decently extensive use of VDJ and a bit of Traktor. Lil bit of Mixx and some german SW I have never even heard of LOL. Granted he was quick to point out he has optimized in every way and even keeps wi-fi off (which I haven't done for the past 3 years LOL) I found myself wondering if a.) things had gotten better and/or b.) peeps just don't know how to optimize.

Safe enough to say clearly he is not the only one getting along just fine with Win/SDJ so good news there.

I can't say I disagree with you here. If he is looking to spend around $500-$700 I would suggest a Windows based machine as well and cross bridges when you get to them. If he can muster around $800-$1100 I would however look into a 2012 or newer MBP............. as an option at least as you never know.

The ONLY issue I see with this (FWIW) is if going from a MacBook Pro to a Win would things like the waveforms bother him a bit more ONLY because he has become used to them.

Just as an example when I used SSL with a toshiba satellite (quite a few years ago) the cue points were a little laggy from press to action. I was just used to it and who really carded. Enter my first (2007) macbook Pro. It took one week of using it to truly spoil me enough to the point that I could never use that laptop again with SSL LMAO................ If this makes any sense.

When I first ran SDJ on this laptop, I did all the recommended optimization steps (minus Power Management but that's an HP problem, long story), and I turn off my WiFi every time I DJ. tbh I still don't understand why it's necessary for me to turn off my WiFi, but I don't have a good internet connection where I play anyway, so it doesn't bother me.

You really are paying a pretty penny for convenience. I guess I did too considering my laptop has a PCIe based SSD in it, and those aren't cheap even in the slightest. On top of that, the one above mine has an NVMe based SSD, and those things are stupid fast. Ironically, hardly any of that shows any benefits to Serato other than faster start-up and shutdown times.

Paying $1100 for an older Retina is iffy. A lot of those are beat up and some may still have the defective LG screen. $1300 would put you at a nice price, $1500 would put you at ease in regards to reliability. But ignoring the convenience, you can buy a PC with a quad-core i7, 8GB of RAM, and a TB HDD for $700. That's not bad AT ALL considering my old HP Pavilion has a mid-low ranged AMD 3500 processor (garbage by today's standards) and it was $650 when I got it four years ago. Funny how that thing still works to this day.

One thing that's NOT convenient about those Macs is when they break. Good luck fixing them on your own with all the soldered parts. The SSD is proprietary and expensive as hell to buy from third-party sellers. You can't replace the RAM (soldered). Not really a laptop designed to be repaired by anyone outside of Apple (then again, neither is mine if anything minus the wireless card and SSD fail). That's really the only thing I don't like about Apple's products. They work at their best if you like their closed ecosystem.

I didn't start using Serato until DJ came out. Traktor was my first program because it was cheaper. Back then, no way did I have enough bread to spend on two turntables and a compatible Serato mixer, and shouldn't have when I could use Traktor for $350 when I bought my Numark 4Trak. Oh how the times have changed.

I would actually suggest to avoid retina as it is not even supported by Serato so it is a waste of resources. Let the money go toward storage and RAM on a 2012 non retina and that should suffice for the next few years. Again just an option.
Amen to that!!

I agree with that. Be better off finding and older 1600x1050 matte 15" Macbook and spending the money saved on a Retina on a 2.5" SSD (the prices are great and they're only getting better) and 8GB of RAM. I think the newer models support up to 16GB, but Mac OS X is better at using resources than Windows is so 8GB should be enough. Though having a 1920x1080 display of the Retina (you can only get the full 2880x1800 with third-party apps) on Serato is nice.........even if it does make things a little bit harder to read.

I truly can NOT believe how cheap you can get SSD for. Now onto Optane!! LOL www.digitaltrends.com

That sounds like Samsung's 3D NAND on 'roids.

I have been tempted to get a mac.but i cant justify the price when the basic things i do in serato work fine on the 2 pcs i have,which are quite cheap.maybe if i was to be more advanced then what i have now wouldnt take the strain.so what pc would without going into mac money zone be able to handle more advanced use?

Unfortunately when it comes to PC there's no established or predictable standard like MAC.

You can only hope that the person that is recommending a particular PC is reliable.

There has been attempts to establish a reliable list of proven PCs but unfortunately it has failed due to limited entry's by trusted users and potentially millions of variables on pc.......

A reliable list of "plug & play" macs from trusted users, proven to work flawlessly with different versions of serato has been available since 2007 to present. This verifiable history is one of the main reasons many people choose mac because performance is predictable.

well if you trust akaTRAP, he alleges "It doesn't matter which you pick so long as you choose from a quality brand and a quality reseller."

good luck :)

The Quality reseller part is essential here as you may in fact need their help. Make sure day one that said reseller does not install their own bloatware and if you have other PC's I would use those for everday use (optimized for enjoyment and ease of use) as well as you downloading of music and such, Thus keeping this "performance" PC optimized for DJing at all times. This way you can even rid yourself of Virus protection (while keeping Windows protection on) and everything and not have to worry.
This part here is a fact and the reason why this strikes so many nerves of so many users. Also the reason why I am so welcoming of any news otherwise. I for one would LOVE to see/hear of a PC that was overwhelmingly successful at running Serato.

FWIW akaTRAP strikes me as an individual who is genuinely trying to help. The problem is there is no exact measurement of this "more advanced use" and who is to say one day you won't want to do Video, or use Pitch n Time, or DVS, etc. I say do some research (Fuck the online reviews and stick to the forums) around here and ask actual users. Look into previous threads. If you come out with a rand or model line that you feel has positive enough results then make a decision. As mentioned already though be sure your retailer is reputable enough to be there if you should need them.




My advice would be to create a new post in the Serato General Dsicussion saying"

"In The Market For A New PC - Any Suggestions???"

This will invite a flurry of Mac Vs. PC Debaters (for good reason which we have covered)
so my advice would be to then open with this as your first line.

"I am aware of the advantages of using a Mac but MUST stick to PC for my own business/personal reasons"

Whether you "drink the kool aid" (I love that line BTW) or not at least it will keep (most) of the BS away as there should be no need for anyone to point out what we have spoken of here any further.

This is what I am doing right now. I use my desktop PC which has the virus protection to download music and do everyday tasks. I then transfer the music to my laptop which is used exclusively for DJing and processing the music. No other software were installed in the laptop. I have Flip, PnT and all the FX packs activated with no issues at all. I don't do video as of this time so I can't say right now how the laptop will handle video.

BTW, I use an ASUS ROG gaming laptop though, so this is in the high end of the PC spectrum.

Exactly how I would approach this. When I said I use Win I mean I REALLY use it. For downloading, browsing, games, entertainment, media etc. I decided to go for Mac because there were some software available exclusively for Apple. I got so sick of hoping and waiting for support I decided to take the plunge. That being said I was/am unwilling to give up the Windows structure for my everyday life which IMO is better. Maybe not as "simple" or "one size fits all" but definitely better for my needs. Blue screen, viruses, etc.............. c'mon that is honestly a "last decade" kind of reason to switch. There is just a very real comfort and familiarity with Windows (especially Win 10's classic feel) that I am not willing to part with.

The absolute thing I hate more than anything in the world is limitations and barriers so THIS is my main reason for maintaining my knowledge and use of both platforms. If I wasn't lying I can say I have even thought of learning Linux more than a few times although as a DJ it seems very obvious the juice is NOT worth the squeeze.

Mix Emergency
Djay Pro
Certain aspects of Serato Video itself (Syphon support and Quartz Compositions)
Rekord Buddy
Keyfinder
etc.

All reasons for Mac


DJ Player Pro
Traktor DJ
Serato Remote
Serato Pyro
Tonetable
iMaschine2
Pacemaker
etc.

All reasons for iOS

I am sure there are some Win only apps I could benefit from but if I am being honest I have never crossed that bridge personally.


To stay on topic I have heard of others using ASUS with decent results as well. Even with Video.

I will say though things are getting better for Win & android support. Lemur just started supporting Android, Flow8Deck (mixed In Key) now offers Win support, even Djay 2 is offered on Android for the past few years. All started on Mac or iOS though.

You would have to believe there is a reason each and every one of these are either just on Mac or started on Mac then ported to Win for a reason though. Not attempting to re-ignite anything but just stating the obvious.

I refuse to believe Serato and Native Instruments HATE money so one would have to ask why are their mobile apps ALL iOS only? Especially with the fact that the overwhelming majority of the world uses solutions other than iOS.

Same here, i also still use Windows for these apps because there just is not any on Mac as good in my opinion.

* mp3Val
* MP3 Gain
* Tag&Rename

HP/DELL/MAC and so on....my personal financial situation is atrocious and so Mac is completely out of the question!! After using second hand HP laptops for the last 5 years with Serato Itch and DJ I really can say through experience any HP laptop with sufficient specs for Serato software and in reasonable condition around the 2/3 year age will do the job without fault and more than likely fora few years, HP really build workhorses so you will not be disappointed. I personally find HP a little more efficient when it comes to fluidity of the workflow than Dell but there really is not alot of difference between the two.

Good to know that video works well with ASUS laptops, in case I go into doing video.

Ultimately though, whether the individual chooses Mac or PC, he/she must be prepared to troubleshoot in case issues arise.

Incidentaly Windows 10 is excellent to DJ with as was Windows 7 and still is. If you do buy a HP or Dell and want Windows 10 then make sure you go for a 3rd generation Intel i3/5/7 processer (code name: Ivybridge) as this is where supports starts in Windows 10 from Microsoft...1st and 2nd generation apparently not supported in Windows 10 although will work fine in Windows 7 and 8, 8.1.

Jesus Christ. If it's the model I'm thinking of (one with a GTX 7XXm or newer) that thing is a back breaker. Beautiful and powerful as it is heavy.



If I had to guess, it's a little bit of a programming choice but more than likely their audience. Especially last decade, Macs were seen as the professional's computer. Vista did a wonderful job of ruining consumers' trust in Microsoft until Windows 7 came out, but even then that ship had long sailed. Vista probably hurt Microsoft more than what they're willing to admit, hence why 7 is just a functional version of Vista. Nowadays even though people are more aware that professional work can be done on a PC, the convenience we talked about with Macbooks means they spend less of their time troubleshooting and more of their time working and earning money, so a lot of the apps that cater to that crowd are going to hop on Apple's ecosystem first (typically).



This is one of the reasons why people choose Macs over PC's. A lot of times, when you need to troubleshoot on a PC, you're pretty much on your own. You of course can figure out the issues yourself on a Mac, but there are so many Apple Stores around (ESPECIALLY if you're near a college campus), so long as you're willing to pay for it, you don't have to do much troubleshooting (if any) on your own. tl;dr convenience.....there's that word again.

I won't even talk about troubleshooting with Serato. The support team is one of the best I've ever seen, even if Serato for some odd reason can't improve the auto-gain in SDJ lol

Absolutely. Even IF using a 100% unsupported setup they will still do what they can.

I've contacted them at least three times about drag & dropping not working and they've helped me fix it all three times. Of course I had to do a registry edit the last time, but it still worked.

Apparently Mac is low self maintenance....some might say PCing for the dummies!

I wouldn't call it PC'ing for dummies. PC'ing for those that want their computer to work without them having to think about it. Even tech-savvy users can benefit from that. Whether or not you care is a different story.

I wrote up a whole response to that post but quickly realized it wasn't worth it. It would take a dummy to think ANY computer is SELF maintaining. Furthermore even if they were am I to believe that individuals who would use them would be inferior in any way?

I always thought people who use self cleaning ovens just have better things to do LOL.

Funny thing is I'm pretty convinced Apple's main target demographic thinks their computers are self maintaining. Easy maintenance =/= self-maintaining.

Yeah I believe it. Same peeps who come back saying "my is updated itself today!" Lmao uhhhhhh no it didn't.

I hear that all the time in the el capitan issues and im like theamericanreligion.files.wordpress.com lol

I think that is a good point right there rating a person upon their tools is not a water tight boat to happily float in! Personally I have never owned a Mac...yet...so I am personally not willing to judge...would be silly really. I am happy enough with my 2nd HP from ebay and it has not let me down yet and neither has the windows OS. But if laptop hardware is such an issue to some people as for them to break into a cold sweat over the thing failing then maybe they ought to do a couple of things i.e change their manager (no one likes to be shot for loosing a football match) or stick to vinyl or CDJs!

hey akaTRAP, what mac do you own and use serato on ?

Ah, the PC v Mac debate never gets crusty old.

I can say so far if you have the right PC it works flawless. The only issue I have had is more of a USB HDD issue causing the occasional audio dropouts on one of my laptops but that's also due to that HDD being about 8 years old. My 2 studio machines are both PC running an Ableton system and all my laptops are PC for compatibility. My experience dates back to 1994 with 2 years of engineering in-between and 15 years of managing my studio machines.

Mac is a pro choice because the software + hardware are matched to offer an overall tight integration which results in reliability. Issues with drivers and varying motherboard/ram/GPU etc configurations are way less an issue but can still occur. One of the bigger issues with Mac is complete incompatibility from one version of OS to the next until the software developers can play catch up.

If you have a good understanding of PCs though and an acceptance that from time to time you will have to troubleshoot some stupid issues then there is nothing stopping a PC from being very reliable. For my mobile work I have 2 x laptops that are mirrored with Serato just in case one happens to die but previous to Serato these ran recording and production no worries. The cost of both these is less than the cost of the lowest spec MBP currently. I am also able to easily upgrade the SSD/HDD/RAM without any real thought and consider these machines somewhat disposable. If they die i'm not that fussed, just get another and move on.

I would personally be just as happy with a Mac since it's just another tool same as my controller, amps etc. But as for the OT post, PC can perform just as reliably as Mac as long as you know a little about housekeeping and performance management for PC.

Some people seem to be looking for God when they cry out for such a dependence!...who knows they might even find Jesus without expecting too. These are just machines.

And from left field comes religion.

check out his name and Biography, it pretty much explains everything....

The funny thing is, Windows 10 actually WILL update itself. Part of the reason why I hate it.........OK it's the only reason why I hate it. Still I'm not touching it again.



Don't exactly know why you quoted someone else and mentioned me.

Is that better ? now im only quoting you.

K, still don't see the point of mentioning me.

Its a simple question, no reason to procrastinate, deflect and avoid ...

I guess you need more time too think about it.....lol

OK, I'll bite.

I've never used a Mac device with Serato installed. However I wouldn't exactly expect you to understand why that question is irrelevant because you weren't even able to understand my reasoning as to why I stated the OP should go for a PC over a Mac.

There. Did I answer your simple question? Or do you need me to elaborate some more?

Oh sure, what Macs have you owned ?

a white Macbook that was a Core 2 Duo. Then a 13" Macbook Pro. Then three HP's.

And you want to know what Macbooks I've owned why?

You're an intelligent person and my questions were very clear and transparent.

But your answers to mine aren't.

I know they do. Was referring to Macs though :)

akaTRAP, is there a reason you're not being forthcoming ? Are you trying to trick me ?
Fyi, I can smell "word games" a mile away, I just thought you should know that ;)

I'm still waiting on you to answer my question. Why did you ask me what type of Macs I have owned?

Well Christ beats I. brought up an interesting topic when he stated
So I inquired about your personal history, experience or lack there of with Mac and Serato when I asked...

You were hesitant to answer but eventually stated...


This answered my question in regards to your experience with serato on a mac.

But I sense you were not being entirely honest or forthcoming with that answer because you chose not to answer directly in order to leave a back door open if needed for retreat (old debate trick).....
so I asked a more direct question...
and it was no surprise that your answer changed to include.....

So are you intentionally being dishonest or deceptive ? we will never know because its the internet where one can be anything they want to be.

So I have to use a Mac with Serato installed to know the issues El Capitan is having with Serato, even though I can easily read about them online?

So I need to have used a Mac with Serato installed to know that Macs use the same hardware as any other Windows PC under the sun? Or they use custom-ordered hardware from (quite literally) the same manufacturers that make PC hardware? Do I need to have used a Mac with Serato to READ THE ORIGINAL POST WHERE IT WAS STATED THE GUY COULDN'T AFFORD A MAC? (For some odd reason, you guys keep missing that important piece of information)

So I need to have used a Mac with Serato installed to know that there is NOT A SINGLE Macbook Pro, and I do mean NONE, that can handle Serato Video as well as my PC (using programs that are available for BOTH operating systems) because there isn't a single Macbook, past or present, that has a GPU that can hold a candle to mine? Yes, that includes the latest Retina Pro. That R9 M370X is trash compared to my GTX 860m, and that AMD GPU is better than the previous GT 750m, which is better than the previous GT 650m, which is better than the previous 2011 15" with an HD 6770M......Do I need to keep going or have I lost you already?

So do I need to own a Mac with Serato installed to know that both you and Woosley didn't know hardly anything about what you were talking about (let alone could comprehend the statements I made), and even got to a point where someone else, despite suggesting a Mac for a better experience, still acknowledged me for knowing what I was talking about to the point where he even agreed with me recommending a PC because the OP said, and I quote:



or do I need a Mac running Serato to understand that refurbished Dells (since that was also mentioned in the OP; should try scrolling up sometime) aren't exactly the best quality PC you can buy and would do better buying something brand new from either Dell themselves or someone from HP?

Here's another one, do I need to own a Mac with Serato installed to know that Toshiba and Sony actually have a LOWER average rate of failure than Macbooks? Did you know that Asus does as well? Did you know this also is true for two and three years past the initial warranty? Don't believe me? Here's a source. www.quora.com


Or are you intentionally ignoring all of that to be "dishonest or deceptive"?

You can try me until the sun comes up. Unless you know more about technology than I do (and everyone here can read the posts and see that you don't), you'll lose. Every time.

funny how you selectively leave out this part every time....

Do you think we cant see that part ? lol

But more importantly, no matter how much you type tech specs your lack of real world experience excludes you from any type of rational debate/discussion with an experience user of both platforms on this topic. Your experience is limited too a mix of thoughts, opinions and written documentation provided to you by OTHER PEOPLE which you then regurgitate as fact.

The reason I ignore you rants or points is because you are disqualified so "you'll lose. Every time" ;)

Mac fanbois are like terrorist, they worship at the alter of apple, and nothing you say is going to convince them that using that mac will not make them dj gods. Never used one,dont need one, I have 4 pc's running serato beyond my satisfaction, and dj sets EVERY WEEKEND for 8 or more hours at a time..

And let me add: Im running a DDJ-SZ with 2 PC laptops, and 2 turntables, running serato video, and have 2 soundboards running through the pc as well. MAC that.

Funny how you selectively leave out the parts where I literally said save the money and get a PC that's not a refurbished Dell. I KNOW you can see that part. Scroll up some more.



A. I have more real-world experience with technology than you. Not only is it my major, not only have I swapped out sticks of RAM myself (had to in order to upgrade the white Macbook to Lion), but I understand the technology better than you.

B. You can't tell the difference between the FACTS I stated versus the OPINIONS you keep posting. Your lack of reading comprehension skills is not my problem.

C. The reason you ignore my "rants" or points is because you don't understand what I'm talking about. That's why Woosley stopped commenting. He couldn't counter me no matter how hard he tried. Even deejdave acknowledged that I knew a lot about technology. Or did you miss that part?

OH DON'T WORRY! I'll pull it up for you.

8:50pm EST, March 11, 2016, deejdave said the following:



Wonder why he can understand what I'm talking about, but you can't?



Mac fanbois are just like any other fanboy. They have no clue of what they're talking about. Never have. Never will. No matter how hard they try.

Wrong on the fanboy stuff gentlemen, my preference and expertise is in Windows. The only reason I use mac is because I find it superior for Serato use. I can understand how that might be a bit confusing too you but if you were to check some of the older posts on this topic you would find that many of us Mac users are highly experienced Windows users that don't take part in pissing contest anymore to prove it.

Can you kindly clarify the superiority of the Mac and its is over Windows?

Yes read above all answer are there!

People you don't have a mac just refuse to believe.

It's a well known and debated fact.

Serato software runs better on osx than windows it is all programed on osx then ported over to windows. On video there are more options on the mac side add MixEmergency and you have even more video options then you add quartz and you just blow video away. Things like loading of the library are better on the mac side and much more reliable and have been able to have a bigger size on mac vs pc. The waveforms have always been better than pcs.

Then there is VDJ that is better in every way on windows than it is on mac.

So like memtioned it is all down to programing and the technology used.

I guess another advantage of osx is the way things install not all the messing around like windows. And the fact mac just seems more solid in the way it works and runs. Hense why you used to get alot of people make a hackingtosh on there pc and then serato run 100% fine!

These are the main reasons people but Macs for use with Serato software.

Not because it has the some better hardware inside as we all know pc and mac use same hardware although apple is none for having hardware tweaked to there liking and spec. Also with a mac you don't have the thousands of different hardware and driver configurations that could cause conflit.

Remeber no one is say Serato won't work on a pc as it will fine. But a Mac has some more options if using video and just runs smoother/more optimised.

I was like you guys once then i got a mac and then i realised just how good Serato runs on it.

The other thing with video is Serato uses Open-GL and on windows many drivers have issues with this as most windows programs like VDJ uss directX but on a mac Open-GL works great.

I'm sure there are experienced Windows users in these forums. I'm just not convinced you're one of them.



So to summarize that comment, you're basically saying Macs are more convenient than Windows.

I find it odd you mentioned Open-GL considering it's only been since 2014 when the Mac Pro refresh was released with two AMD workstation GPU's, and only last year did they start putting an AMD GPU in their iMacs with the 5K display (a silly decision since the GPU they picked can barely drive that display at its native resolution). The ones before those were Nvidia based, which favors CUDA.


This post went from "go with a Mac" to me saying choose a PC you can afford to people trying to argue why the OP should go for a Mac that he stated he couldn't afford to eventually the general opinion is you'll be fine with a PC that you can afford (something I said from the very beginning). Hilarious.

Well...since this thread started I have given over 4 hours of my life to using Serato on a 2nd hand HP laptop and without any issues whatsoever. Now we have pulselocker on offer in 1.9 but I am not in a rush for that service.

Neither am I to be completely honest. I wish they'd stop adding features and would fix the core aspect of Serato DJ. SSL's auto-gain is better than SDJ's, and that's my main complaint with it.

My HP Omen handles Serato nicely. No complaints over here.

The Omen will anything Serato has to give as you will know. Nice laptop that one bro. I have a HP 2570p which is easily powerful for Serato without the video of which I do not currently use but the Omen will walk the video. I also like the size of the 2570p...12 inch! Ultra portable and with a sturdy build to.

Yea it's a really nice laptop, though I wish I had gotten the 16GB version instead of sticking with 8GB of RAM. Also wish the GPU was more powerful, but the PCIe SSD is blazing fast.

My Omen is only 4.6 pounds, roughly 5 with the battery tagging along. I'd consider it if you were looking to upgrade but wanted to stick with Windows.

DJ Woolsey, nicely said!!!

It actually was a consideration a while back but it is out of my price range to be honest plus the interest was in the Omens capability in handling Serato video with ease. If I do go for a video show in the future I will stick with HP and Windows 10....just does the job fine and I have no need to change.

You guys stick to buggy basic Serato Video.

You guys might want to post in here and help some guys out - serato.com

Wrong question :)

Ok...let me put it another way..what is supposed as the superiority of the Mac and OS thereof over windows with bullet points? The reason I ask for bullet points is I think the entire argument needs to be clinical, mechanical and simple. I am supposing from the intel here that it boils down to mostly drivers and the ease of application via the OS. I do not believe that stability is so much of an issue any more as Serato have gathered knowledge over the last few years and applied it accordingly and so greatly stabilizing their software. Are people sure that it is just not the Brad Pitt looks compared to the James Gandolfini of the more common laptops...you know...just the bright little symbol of disobedience emanating from the bonnet/hood of the more waif of the kind...yes the apple was bitten by Eve after being thoroughly duped/seduced...all the best here for the worst there is most cases. Anyway sorry to have troubled you..answer at your leisure.

But what would your Lord and savior use?

You can build stable PC rigs, there is no arguing against that. Most people are cheap and expect some $600 off the shelf PC loaded with junk to perform perfectly. Odds are not in their favor. Macs are a known entity, you can a 13" and 15" for a current model year and have all of the hardware you need to factor in for testing.

You can't do that with PCs. You have Sony, Dell, Lenovo, Acer, Asus, and a million others using different chipsets from however many other manufacturers. So John Does Acer that is maxxed out in specs uses some cheeseball USB chipset that causes drop outs.. that is suddenly Serato's problem? I think not.

...What would Jesus use...ha ha ha....It is more what he does not need to use my friend...dont forget the king of Kings rode into the town riding a Donkey and not an Arabian thoroughbred...if you get my drift!

I do see what you are saying hear in respect of uniform alone. I also sadly smell a master race odour though that will want control all things via that uniform...probably why they do not like Android OS either!

There is a conformity with here that I am wary of and I also see the same thing with Pulselocker!

Easy question to answer.

A. Convenience. They're easier to set up and manage for your average user than a Windows PC. Also driver support is easier to deal with than Windows. I had to download the drivers for the DDJ-SR I use. No need to do that on Macs since they're plug-n-play for a lot of DJ controllers, and I think Rane mixers as well but don't quote me on that.

B. Support. Good luck finding a Microsoft Store to handle your PC problems. Since Apple is the only manufacturer (I use this term loosely) of their laptops, you only have to go to one source to troubleshoot your computer, Apple. You can call them, email them, or walk into an Apple Store (they're plentiful, especially if you live in a college town) and get help that way.

C. Ecosystem. Assuming you like it (personally I don't), you can be confident that your phone will be well-integrated into your laptop since an iPhone and a Mac are made by the same company. Closed ecosystems do have their benefits.

D. Optimization. Because the hardware rarely changes between iterations, Macs are better optimized for their hardware than Windows PCs since they come from different manufacturers and go through different parts. For example, you can be confident that your Retina is going to work just as well as the other guy's (for the most part), but there's a chance my HP is going to provide a much better experience than an Acer due to different manufacturer processes. Since every Apple PC is roughly the same, everyone's OS is roughly the same (can hardly modify it since it's not open-source), and it's designed to get the best out of the hardware within the laptop. For example, it's why Macs have better battery life than almost any Windows laptop you can think of, save the new Dell XPS 15.


So basically, if all these things are important to you, and have the money to buy a product that can meet these points, then a Mac is for you. If you're tech-savvy, it doesn't really matter, and it comes simply to preference.

...lets look at it this way...what would you give Jesus to use?

Very well wriiten, thankyou. The ease here in this world is for the rich and it remains so for a time.
Regards.

Love how you miss off all the Serato coding that is better on OSX but hey ho.

You really can't read, can you? You just like replying to me to say something just to so you can feel like you added to the conversation. You miss the part where he said:



So basically his question mainly focused on the differences between the two OUTSIDE of Serato, not within Serato itself. And even if he did, we already know that despite how much people like to think there's a huge difference between a high-end Mac and a high-end PC, you're not going to notice a large difference in performance. But hey, if you have a bad case of Serato face, enjoy those smooth waveforms.

Wow nice job quoting the wrong post. Ironic how that didn't happen as I was typing it BUT OH WELL!!!!! I'll just point out that the above message was aimed at Woosley, the one with impeccable reading comprehension skills.

i actually agree with aka trap..any decent laptop with the right tweaking will run serato fine(possibly not if you are using advance features though?)..not sure what features the op intends to use,but i have used an acer6gb,hp amd6gb and a lenovo 8gb..none have let me down..it would be nice if there was a standard laptop say half the price of a mac that could be a bench mark,but as has been pointed out the variables are to wide..i dont think its about pc vs mac,but what works for you..users on a mac wont get any better results than me on a pc using basic features..and i do know this from all the people in my circles who dj,broadcast,etc...

You have reminded me of itch there and how when looking we realize how much Serato have improved those waveforms alone! Well done lads!

You have reminded me of itch there and how when looking back we 'seealize' how much Serato have improved those waveforms alone! Well done lads! Don't get me wrong I understand the topic of conversation...and like I said I am happy with my Donkey too!
Cheers chaps!

Yes i just read this



So i guess you are correct i am not paying that much attention. So you guys are now on a real Mac VS PC debate in general. Cool, Well have fun with that.

Christ beats I.
I was being sarcastic but it was not aimed at you. Your question was very open ended allowing for all Mac Vs PC debate regardless of it having anything to do with SERATO.

You cant have a real discussion if that door is left open because some users will use it and take the discussion off topic if it helps there case.

true

I run a Denon MC4000 coupled with a Reloop Neon for occasional creative wish and my Windows 10 laptop carries the load with no issues at all.

Toe to toe, blow for blow. It's the kind of review that sets you free that we all like to find even when looking for an new SSD! Anyway my questions have been answered. Thankyou

I see your point, sorry. Back to the sticky waveforms then that have dramatically improved since the days of Itch..

well i use a denon mc 2000 .amx.and a x1mk2 all at the same time..might sound crazy.but they all have their use for the way i play music whilst broadcasting...so i use effects sp6 sometimes dvs with the amx..works fine..so a question for the mac users on this thread.whats the next level up from my usage..what features do you use that my pcs wouldnt be able to handle..it seems to me like its a theroy vs practical debate on here at times..how often do people play music to the public..be it on the net or in venue?

True but for the first time I actually agree with one of his posts.....vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net

It sounds like akaTRAP may have been digging in the archives and researching our past discussions on Mac Vs PC ? But research is always a good thing so no complaints from me.

But im most impressed by the fact that he did not pollute his answer with long winded irrelevant tech spec speak......(sarcastic backhanded compliment) lol

Yep, I loved it regardless..A-!

True, now if we could only get akaTRAP too put those theory's to actual use we could open the door to "real" discussion.

Glad to know you think of me so often :)



DDJ-SR with Windows 8.1 and Windows 10. Not a single problem with Serato. Also ran a 4Trak with Traktor 2.7.1 and 2.9.0. Also no problems. Just know that if you ever get an HP Omen, DO NOT DO A CLEAN INSTALL! For the love of God do not do a clean install. HP's power management on this laptop is stupid, and you have to use their HP Recommended or Windows will constantly try to communicate with the SSD and it'll give up. It took a few days for people on the official forums to figure that out.

Don;t have any those issues with my Mac. 20mins from format to install and surfing the net!

It's an HP problem related specifically to the HP Omen, and it only happens if you do a clean install (something you shouldn't have to do in the first place).

Well that can only be determined by a proven track record of playing live every week with no issues,(using his theory)thats why i asked how often do people play music in a live situation. but the same could be said of you p diddy how often do you put into practice your theory of mac being better..it works both ways..its all very well posting vast tech knowledge which you have,but how often do you put that to the test..i think you would find if you played out every week maybe macs are not as rock solid as you suggest.i know your a big fan of doing water tight checks before going live..but in the real world of family life,work commiments..time may not always be there..you may well play out regular same for dj dave both very tech savvy but not much actual talk of playing regular..all these things matter in the real word..not theory

I'm just teasing ;-)

Well considering I reset a Macbook a few weeks ago, You weren't far off the mark. Buddy had to replace his dying hard drive. Remote install had his laptop up and running in under an hour.

Windows. Get on that. Remote installs are SOOOOOOOOOO much easier than having to find (steal) an ISO, burn it to a USB drive, boot to the damn thing, install from the damn thing, THEN go and find the drivers I need.

Aaah you bring up a very interesting topic "proven track record". The Macbook has an unfair (Indisputable) advantage here. There's years of documented history on this forum alone in regards to the Mac/serato track record. By about 2008 I would say the MBP became the Industry standard among Professional serato dj's. I recall this only because its the same year I purchased my 1st Mac specifically for serato use.

The Macbook's performance predictability with serato can be verified from 2006 to present (Good or Bad). There have been attempts to document specific windows PC's with a "proven track record" with serato on this forum but they all seem to fail due to low participation or interest.

But due to 1 million+ variables possible with windows configurations multiplied by Brands, is it really even possible to establish a windows industry standard for serato with a "proven track record" ?

2006 is around the time frame Windows Vista came out....specifically it came out in January of 2007. Vista did some serious damage to Microsoft's reputation.

yes, I remember that very clearly and I recall it having alot to do with my decision to even try mac.

I was so disgruntled by Vista that I stayed on XP till windows dropped support it 2014. :(

Think it boils down to what value you place on your time.

When I was in Uni I had a Windows laptop that shipped with Vista. It was so bogged down by this I ended up installing XP and Ubuntu. I'm not technically naive. If you've used Ubuntu you need to be as technically savvy as possible.

Now I've got other things to do with my time, my hourly value has rising considerably and I will rather spend that time doing something productive than troubleshooting or optimizing a computer.

There are only three apple products in my household, my MBP, the Mrs MBA and my iPad 2. We still have an old acer that we keep around just in case we have house guests or need to use a Windows only program. I'm not a fan boy in anyway. We ve got android phones and a tablet too.

Spec for spec yeah in terms of components sure many windows based laptops have higher components but it's just the way Apple matches it's OS with hardware that I can't fault. They work fine 98% of the time.

What am I paying for, I'm paying for reliability and my time which I place a lot of value on.

At OP If you don't mind trouble shooting etc and you can't afford a mac just get the best windows you can and I'm sure if you run into any trouble people on this forum will help you.

I'm in the market for a new machine for work purposes, and the only one that's piqued my interest is the Windows Surface Book Pro. So it's not all biased apple fan views here though it might appear that way when you read some posts.

Folks here are just giving their own view.

I have never ever had an iPhone because I think they are way overpriced. I am posting this on a Samsung S7 edge.

Another angle which was already mentioned is value, I sold a 4 year old MBP for roughly the same amount I bought it if you factor in the exchange rate. Bought it in the states for $1600 sold it for €950 at a period when the euro was strong.

Ironically after never having issues with Serato, it froze a couple times during a set Thursday. Back to 1.8.2 I go.

It will be a memory one day that you may just hate or find funny...or even regard as a vanity as to the perplexities involved...

it didn't FREEZE, more like stutter. Waveforms stopped for a second then came back. The crowd didn't notice a thing, but it's just another reason why I don't like 1.9

Yo...sounds hilarious...crowd did not notice...ha ha. This is the first update from Serato I have not been so compelled to acquire....I have not bothered yet.

Never rushed to be the lab rat the smart bet is on those who wait and learn some others mistakes, bugs and issues.

I use Serato since 2007. Moved from Scratch Live to Serato DJ last year.

Used it with PCs until 2011, when i bought a new Macbook Pro which i still use nowadays.

In both machines i never had crashes during my live sets. I think it's more to the quality of components and the way you configure your machine, than if it's a PC or Mac.

As long as you have a good quality machine, keep it clean and well optimized and you'll be ok.

On that note, what would be the closest turnkey PC laptop out there right now?

Like worst case you do a clean install of Win10 w/o any bloat or someone ships a PC with a clean install of Win10 already?

i think 1.78 is the pc friendly version.do all the tweaks ad it will run just fine..1.8 is pretty stable as well but i noticed an increase in cpu..not major but enough to have doubts about using it live..anything above just 1.8 is not working out for me on my pcs..so unless your into pulselocker then 1.78 is the version for pcs in my opinion and 1.8 at a push..every version update brings strain on a pc..thats how i see it

When I did a clean update that, long story short, cripples the SSD (thanks HP), my laptop froze twice and the music stopped the second time, and the crowd still didn't care. Matter of fact they kept going as if the music never stopped.

Didn't have that same luck Thursday night. Some random girl came up to put her jacket up and accidentally moved the crossfader to the right as the left deck was playing. Luckily she had common sense and apologized out the ass for it, so no harm no foul......minus ruining Wobble but oh well :P




What do you mean by turnkey? Are you talking about a laptop with just a clean install of Windows 10?



1.8.1 was fine for me, 1.8.2 undid the keys that 1.8.1 did for every song I loaded to the decks, 1.9 is just trash.

If you could spend $2000-2500 on a PC laptop right now, off the shelf (or ordered online via Dell or something) is there one you would buy, knowing you could pop it out of the box, install SDJ and have it run like butter.

I know I could do that with a MacBook Pro, I just don't see a consensus on the PC side and was wondering.

Mine did, and it's cheaper than a Macbook Pro. It's just the latest update is, for whatever reason, garbage. Really I could pick almost any PC with that amount of money and it'll do just fine.......hell I could do it with half that amount of money and it'll run just fine. The issue, at least in my opinion, is with how Serato is handling updates. Fixing the auto-gain is more important to me than Pulselocker.

No arguments there, it's mostly a step to prepare themselves for the future, but doesn't add anything useful to me.

Turnkey refers to a device or system that is plug & play, no additional work required, just power on and system is 100% ready to go.

There has never been a standardized turnkey version on pc that was accepted by a majority of advanced an respected users.

In that case, no, there isn't one for PC, especially if you don't like having to install drivers, plug in the hardware, restart, THEN run Serato like you do on Windows. Most of the newer/higher-end hardware for Serato will automatically install the drivers for you (NS7III does this, I think).

this is not to say they don't exist as im sure they must likely in high end versions. They're just not established as a well known standard as seen in mac. But due too the nature of PC's design it probably unfair to expect one.

I think the hardware that self-installs drivers on Mac are just utilizing the Core Audio drivers Macs come with out of the box. Since there are no unified audio drivers on Windows (LOL, unified drivers...that's a good one), every piece of hardware installs its own (from what I've noticed ASIO) drivers in order for the hardware to work.

Convenience. You pay a pretty penny for it, but it sure is nice.

For many users its more a required necessity that is indispensable especially if you lack basic PC skill. For many advanced users it may be initially seen as a "Convenience" that over time evolves in to "the only logical option". For me personally, it is my only option so its higher price is irrelevant as its just seen as "the cost to play the game".

But if I had to use a PC, it would have to be high end and will equal costs of a high end mac so no money would be saved for my requirements. This would probably be my 1st pick www.microsoftstore.com

Btw, my main Mac is a 2011 macbook air www.everymac.com I purchased used for $400.

This cheap 5yr old low spec by today's standards Mac meets all of my high performance, reliability and stability standards flawlessly with no tweaks or optimizations. Just plug&play ;)

Surface Book is certainly an interesting beast.. too bad the batch of Surface Pros I am getting here at work aren't for me to mess with Serato on :D

I'm not a huge fan of the Surface Pro's. I think they're grossly overpriced for what you're getting.

Im spoiled by the Macbook air's sleek hardware design so comparable overpriced ultrabooks seem inevitable.

Hmmm, I need to figure out an excuse for my job to update my mobile PC's ;)
i26.photobucket.com

If your a working Dj you will use a Mac.

I've had Pc at the beginning of Serato up until 2011 after that never looked back.

Pdiddy knows the deal...lol

Yea but you're not paying upwards of 2K for something that pretends to be a workstation-capable computer but doesn't exactly have all workstation components. I don't even think it has a discrete GPU.

If I had the money, a 15" Retina would be strictly for DJ'ing and anything that I do that doesn't require Windows, and a desktop would be for FL Studio and gaming.

I really don't know but neither does my MBA, I don't do video so its low on my priority list but sure its preferred.

You also didn't pay 2K for it :) Can't justify dropping 2K on anything without a discrete GPU.

discrete GPU is really only a requirement of the advanced or pro video dj or win pc users mixing video on serato.

With the advancements in the Optimization and efficiency of MixEmergency 3 + Mac basic video mixing with integrated GPU is not so taboo anymore on a mac.

Mixemergency created another unfair advantage for mac only www.inklen.com

Well I'm a gamer, so of course I want a discrete GPU. That's the main reason why I have a Windows laptop....well that and FL Studio.

well there's no debate there, windows is KING when it comes to gaming Period.

I wish that would end, though. What they're trying to do with Windows 10 and DX12 is a hot mess right now.

Ok after thinking the Surface Book would be pretty slick, these types of issues would worry me a ton:

www.amazon.com

So, maybe the next version will be better... and then I have to remember as a VJ, Mix Emergency is king and even with a dedicated NVIDIA card in the nicer Surface Books, relying on Serato Video might make me kill myself. *sigh*

^^^ thanks for the info

It's the best of both worlds, you no longer have to choose between mac or PC because mac runs windows natively with no hacking or hackintoshing required.

So once I had a clear understanding of this (Bootcamp Watchwww.youtube.com) it made switching to mac a no-brainer because I had no intentions on totally giving up windows.

So now I have the superior performance of Serato + OSX plus the option to use windows natively on well designed hardware.

Funny thing is Macs lose a bit of their battery life when under Windows because, obviously, Mac OS X is more optimized for the hardware than Windows is, and Windows tends to suck the life out of laptops (not sure about 10 but I remember 7 specifically having that problem in Bootcamp). It's still around 7-ish hours or so.

These days I'm debating on getting one of those SD adapters w/ a 200GB card and running Win10 in bootcamp off of that on my MacBook when I need to do some stuff I still have licenses for in Windows vs OS X.

Can you modify the boot-up sequence of a Mac still? I did it when I dual-booted Snow Leopard and Ubuntu, and installing a UEFI boot made it so that every time I booted up the laptop, it would ask me to choose which OS I wanted.

Doing that could keep the convenience of a Mac while still running two OSes at the same time.

Yep!

I'd recommend doing that (carefully) when dual-booting. A friend of mine dual-booted his Macbook and had to press I think Option in order to switch his OS since it would automatically boot into one or the other.

Nothing is guaranteed!

True so one must make his/her own decisions to ensure their chances of success at as high as possible.

sounds like they set the new partition as the primary boot so it defaults to that, easy fix

Watchwww.youtube.com

Clearly it's an April Fool's joke, but still funny nonetheless.

Its pretty amazing how so many people are obsessed with obsessively hating mac.....lol

Ok, to answer your question I'm going to give it too you straight from EXPERIENCE!!

If yo are going the route of a windows PC, the key is to use a SSD and max out your memory (8gb mins). I've run a pc with a celeron chip with a SSd and 8gb memory and my pc was as fast as any MAC out there.

it don't make a difference as far as name brands. The key is to get go with a SSD and maximum memory and you'll be able to run serato with no issues.

As far as a mac I'm running a mid 2009 with a SSD and 8gb memory and the thing is stupid fast and handles like a champ. They key word here is SSD and th 8gb memory which is the max this particular model can take.

So to wrap up this dicusssion, whatever you do GET A SSD!! and throw in at least 8gb memory (or more if you can afford it) and You'll be fine.

All that other talk about build, brands, etc is pure bullshit. Trust me. I'm a computer geek who DJ's so i know both sides of the arguments.

In defense of that video, it's more of a criticism of their closed ecosystem.


I'm not even going to address the comment above this one because an SSD doesn't even benefit Serato that much. I would know, mine's PCIe based.

Wow you really don't know what you are talking about! How can serato not benefit? dude your talking about your a$$. Why not share you specs with the OP so he can understand what your talking about. My question is does your pc have a SSD? max memory? if not, please do not speak on something you are way unqualified to speak on!!


The whole damn OS benefits from a SSd upgrade. Instead of serato relying on spinning platters to align before accessing the information, it's already there. OP you can listen to me or not but I guarantee you that not listening to me makes the difference.





ps. Nobody is hating on MACs. i have both a PC and a MAc and both have SSd and max memory and both works well with serato.

"you'ill be fine" all depends on what you do on serato..even though i use a pc i know it has limitations..its fine for me using it as basic tool for playing music whilst using a few effects and the sampler..i have one laptop at 8gb that is used only for serato..i wouldnt push that any further than how i use it now..sdd i dont have so do not know what the pros are..video, pnt,switching efects on and off,switching sample banks all of which can cause issues on a pc..so you may find a very expensive laptop to handle multiple actions..but then your going into mac money..the aim is to be able do all the above on a pc say half or less the price of a mac..otherwise might as well buy a mac

man your not making any sense at all!! A SSD and at least 8gb memory is turn any pc into a screaming beast mode at a price point less than 1/4 of a mac price. The added benefit you get is the PC will be overall blazing fast which is a benefit that wll extend far beyond serato. Since you don't have a SSD then you are not qualified to make any comments on it's advantage based off a person who is giving information based on actual usage (ME, ME, ME).

I'm trying to help the OP with FACTS not some bad info from someone who has not traveled a particular road.

Not the video.........the comment section is were the REAL craziness happens.

well i play music every week broadcasting.or uploading to mixcloud or soundcloud..so i know what works for me on a pc...and you do what?..

I DJ!!! and i ACTUALLY USE A SSD HDD AND 8GB MEMORY BUT MOST IMPORTANLY I READ THE ACTUAL QUESTION THAT WAS ASKED BY THE OP!

lol..you seem really angry..

might help the op if you broke it down..what features do you use..cost of sdd 8gb laptop.the op said money was tight..what controller do you use..as a pc user i'm also interested in your claims

dude your killing me. google would reveal the answer. But for you I'll undulge. A 240gb ssd can be had at bestbuy for about $70. as far as memory, the OP needs to check his computer specs memory option at crucial.com and the rest is history. Money is tight is relevant to what you value. For less than $130 he can upgrade his equipment. dolla for dolla its an great investment and cheaper than the alternative than buying a new laptop! hell even a shitty laptop will run like gangbustas with a SSD. You my friend would understand this once you decide to upgrade to one!

I use a NS7 II, I have a 240gb & 8gb ram on both a windows pc (lenovo) and a mid 2009 macbook pro. I use all the feature in serato because i don't want to be limited and yes i can easily play 4 tracks at one time and not have any latency, crashing, skipping issues.

ps. I'm thru with this conversation. GET A SSD & MAX OUT YOUR MEMORY AND COME BACK LATER AND THANK ME!!

\THREAD 4me!

Pitch N Time?

is a core 2 duo which no longer meets system requirements. time for a new laptop.

Oh....well welcome to YouTube lol






For once, I didn't have to say anything. I know this guy is talking out of his ass because he asked if I had an SSD AFTER I said mine is PCIe based. There are no PCIe based hard drives. Even if one existed, it would be pointless because hard drives aren't fast enough to benefit from the transfer rates PCIe provides.

Yes this thread is over for you. YOU don't know what you're talking about. At least everyone else here actually has a clue.

Well I can say that the web browsers on BOTH PC and Mac seem to function just fine as that seems to be more utilised by some than Serato.

Keep fighting the good war, someone will win the argument of which hammer is best at hitting in nails one day.

FWIW there are certainly hammers that are better than others. There are various materials and various weights. Some are forged in one piece, some are two (or more) pieces. Some have milled faces some have smooth faces. This may have been one of the worst analogies I have seen in quite a while.

Quality, specs and materials are all defining factors of how well the hammer will do a job and how long it will last etc................ sound familiar?

^^^BOOOM!

Did I tell you my next laptop might be a Macbook? I really want a laptop only dedicated to DJ'ing, but since I graduate in about a year, idk how long I'm going to keep doing it, so I don't wanna spend a stupid amount of money on something I may not be doing a year from now........not that I don't want to continue.......

No need to limit a mac to just dj'ing when there are so many additional feature once widows is installed.

Remember, I want a desktop for gaming. I wouldn't install Windows on a Macbook at all.

Speaking of Windows, Microsoft just tried to schedule my laptop to upgrade to Windows 10. LOLOLOLOLOLOL NO

Ayye now you can do remote playing on most consoles (PS4 went live with it this week) with a laptop. It's fun playing The Division or Fallout 4 on my 2012 MBP with no worrying about space restraints and other crap.

I don't know shit about gaming but is that a new bid deal or feature ?

Just a new PS4 update that was released today. Lets you stream games from your PS4 and lets you use your PS4 controller while doing so.

In regard to the whole SSD thing, this was posted my Serato Tech support awhile back about the benefits.

"Most internal hard drives are fast enough to handle normal audio playback, especially if you opt for 7200rpm drives for laptops.

The advantage of SSD is the speed. But this would only really come into play in a DJ sense when you are running video files. However, SSD drives are so small that you would very quickly run out of space and need to get an external drive, which then defeats the purpose of having the fast drive.

We've not seen much real world advantage yet with these drives. When the size of these drives goes over 500Gb then I assume this will change (although by then we may all be using higher quality/size files too, so it may be problematic).

So in summary, if you are DJing with MP3s or WAVs, go for a normal drive (try to get a 7200rpm if you can). If you are DJing with video - then be aware that you may find you run out of room very quickly with an SSD drive, and you may not even get any real advantage."

I'm not a huge fan of console gaming anymore. I'd rather enjoy the performance benefits of a gaming PC. Just personal preference.

Only problem with that tech's info is SSD's are decreasing in price as they increase in size. The bigger ones are still expensive as all hell, but the 500GB models are becoming more and more affordable as time goes on. However, it's true you won't see hardly any benefit running Serato DJ with an SSD. Matter of fact the only benefit I get is the program opens and shuts down faster than it would with a conventional hard drive.

I'm no technical guru, it's faster to write videos to SSD say when editing a video with FCP.

I use a thunderbolt external regular hard drive for my mp3 and video storage. Serato works fine. Hell I even write video edits directly to the external HD with Handbrake.

FCP mov files to internal SSD, before handbraking the video to external Hard drive.

I prefer console gaming for the actual audience TBH. The hardware and even software is better but I find the caliber of actual gamer leaves much to be desired with PC gaming. No offense to you aka TRAP as this is again speaking generally and not you personally.

As far as the SSD info posted by Rebelguy it is just outdated in general.

No it is not. With the exception of load times of the actual program and video files an SSD will not enable Serato DJ to run better.

The entire post is based upon large size SSD's being uncommon which is a reach at best. It also states there have no been any real world advantages...................... YET. Since then there have been. Load times and better overall performance comes to mind. Point is SSD's are so cheap currently I see no reason why one would not opt for them.

A lot happens in a year of tech. THAT post was from 2012 LMAO!!

Correction 2011

I can't count how many times I've been accused of cheating, or had to kick people from a server for being reckless. At least console gamers are too busy being in private chat to say anything (most of the time).

Serato DJ isn't extensive of a program enough to benefit greatly from an SSD. Hell it's still in 32-bit. But A LOT has changed from 2011 'til now. There weren't even PCIe-based SSDs in the consumer market back then. Now I can get 500GB NVMe m.2 SATA for $300, the price 2.5" SSD's of the same capacity used to be last year.

Exactly what i was implying. Yes they are cheaper to buy but realistically they are not going to help the program run any better.

This is completely accurate. I have a PCIe SSD with a 700MB/s read speed and around 500MB/s write speed. My laptop once booted from a complete shutdown in less than three seconds. I don't see a huge benefit in Serato. It just opens faster, responds faster (1.9 is still garbage IMO), and is more responsive since it doesn't deal with the lag of a hard disk drive. The only way to make Serato fly is to upgrade your processor, and your GPU if using Serato Video.

Wait.................................. what? Nah no real benefits here at all! lol

Well considering any quality HDD will give you roughly the same results, no. No real noticeable, worthy of the still-expensive pricetag of an SSD performance. Some of my games don't even benefit from my SSD, e.g. Battlefield 3.

HDD speed determines this mostly and speed does not define quality. Some people prefer and opt for 5400's etc. There are benefits in every decision though.

SSD brings on less heat, quieter performance, drastic speed improvements etc. and all three are applicable to use with SDJ.

The load times alone of an extensive collection (75K+ files) is reason enough for me to go with SSD and trust this is a very real and measurable difference.

While the larger difference can be seen with video SSD's are cheap enough where even the smaller benefits mentioned above make it worth it ............. IMO at least.

Speaking of console gaming people upgrade to SSD's for similar reasons they do in regard to SDJ. No real huge performance gain but benefits can be seen in load times etc. yet this is becoming more popular. If not SSD's then hybrids at the very least.

BTW would you consider Battlefield 3 a game that would be the best example for this test as it came out the same year as the article linked above (2011)?

Consoles aren't tuned to see benefits from swapping the HDD for a SSD. Digital Foundry is proof of that. Sure if you're loading a large library an SSD will benefit you, but considering I only have 4,500 songs, not so much in my case.

BF3's load times are cut thanks to the SSD. That's it. GTA V would see performance boosts. Some games don't, like Portal.

LOL sorry I had to.

www.pcper.com

While load times are improved only by seconds it is worth noting it only takes seconds to begin with but the performance increases just under 20% pretty much across the boards. While this is not huge I will remind once again neither is the price tag attached to SSD's nowadays.

This is all I was trying to point out. The article suggests no real gain based on SSD's small size hinting at small libraries etc. yet SSD's now come in large sizes at cheap prices hence large libraries bring on large gains.

That is all I will say about this though as one can either accept this or not. Trust I am not making any of this up.

Also trust I am by no means hinting a SSD is by any means required to run SDJ or even have a great experience with it. Two of my MacBook Pro's are actually identical models one being SSD/16GB RAM the other being HDD/8GB RAM. While the SSD one loads significantly faster both are very similar after said library/song is loaded.

Among other things, my load times in BF3 were cut in half in some cases thanks to a SSD. Portal not so much. GTA V would benefit greatly from it since that game takes forever and a day to load. But again consoles aren't optimized for SSD's anyway. They're simply not designed to fully utilize the speed of a SSD like, for example, a PCIe slot is.

But if you're going to drop around a grand for a laptop, it's a waste of money if it doesn't have a SSD. There's seriously no point in buying upper-tier hardware and not having a SSD in it. Matter of fact I can't think of a laptop around a grand that doesn't come with a SSD.

Mac users are like old people, they go to a dealership, pay out the ass for a cheap car with a lifetime warranty, drive it home. They dont change the oil/plugs/tires. Smart pc users buy an inexpensive car, tune it, keep it for many years, updating the engine, wheels, everything.

I see you, you see me on the road, we're driving our car.

Yea that wasn't a very good analogy.

That was so bad I don't even want to debate it. Lol

Macs are convenient. Windows PC's aren't as much. End comparisons. Now, who thinks the newest Retina refresh will have a Skylake processor with the same M370X lackluster GPU?

Yep was terrible! I don't know anyone who buys a cheap pc and then upgrades the hardware inside and tweak the os and drivers ect. They buy a cheap pc because that is what they can afford or they are just tight. I know way more people that buy macs and upgrade the RAM and convert the cd/dvd drives to hold another harddrive and install ssds in the main bay.

It's more a worry of how thin they will make it and will it loose the two USB 3 ports. Maybe only have one and a usb-c ?

Having two storage devices is a really good way to protect your data in case you get a virus or worse, a trojan.

That 12" Macbook is pretty light, though. Like, stupid light. Lighter than the Air. They should rename the Air lol.

What's your opinion of these 40 Mac users from red bulls pioneer s9 event ? djworx.com

THEY'RE ALL N00BS ENDORSED BY APPLE AND THE ILLUMINATI!!111!!111!!!111ONEONEONE

Lol. I know your joking but I am thoroughly entertained by people who really believe it.

if all you want to do is play music without pnt,video..with a not very demanding controller(l'm presuming that might cause issues on a cheap laptop) saying that i have run serato on 3 laptops 4gb 6gb 8gb .no difference in performance.the cheapest being £250 the most expensive £350 so that extra £100 makes no difference..those 40 djs are not your average users..most serato uusers just play music without getting to advanced..so just use what works for you..i dont need a mac for what i do and nor does anybody else,i see guys using macs with high end controllers just pressing play and stop..

In your opinion why do you think they all chose to use a Mac ? are they doing anything special to require it that differs from the average professional user ?

branding does come into play anybody who thinks otherwise is niave..crowd follow crowd..its the same with any designer product..but that aside..brand wont bring you stabillity or will it?.plenty of mac users have issues. i said on the other thread..even if a pc was built for them that outperformed a mac they would still not use it.,,it really its not the in thing to use a pc if your in the limelight..no they are not doing anything special that a very good laptop with proper optimising could do..so if you have a high end pc that can do the job as well(i honestly think they exsist) then why use a mac..

my next step its to buy a pc around £600 .i know from my other laptops there is no difference in a step up from 4gb to 8gb or a £100 price increase..i well may b wasting my money..but i want to see much of a step up in pc i need to really test serato

So you believe this.....

djworx.com = brand worshiping

Do you think there may be any other reasons why those 40 dj's are choosing mac ?

to be honest i'm not starstruck by that..i bought serato to play music..i am a music person from playing records to cds to where i am now in the digital age..i respect whatever skills a person has..yes brand is a big part of it..if i veer off to software..the amount of times i have seen vdj mentioned.then the following comments "vdj is beginner software" when in fact serato is the most simplest software to use out of the box..thats a fact..so it comes down to branding again..as i said up top..build a pc to match a mac those guys still wouldnt use it

But can you psychic abilities tell me where to purchase a magic wand in order to build this magical PC ?

lol..can you tell me what it is you actually do music wise? i never see you talking about what you do personally music wise..your infamous on this forum for telling users its their fault if their mac crashes..so unless you are playing music week in week out in a live enviroment with all the pressures of live on top..then i'm afraid you are just all talk..so? bit cheeky to keep extolting the virtues of a mac if you are not even putting your claims into practice..i did ask you this before but you side stepped the question..i know what i can acheive..you always talk about your peers..how about you as individual what excatley is it you do apart from coming on telling everybody it their own fault for using pc or upgrading etc etc..lol...blimey

www.instagram.com

#anotherone

This actually explains a lot about one person here.............. you.
Skylake YESSS. GPU............ personally could do with or without but I don't use Video or play games on Mac.

I would describe my self as a Performance DJ/ Party dj/ Sound guy and sound system provider. I have 20+ years of professional DJ and sound system experience. I started on vinyl, updated to CD's and started using Serato in 2004, the same year it was first released. I purchased my first controller (VCI300) in 2008 which was serato's 1st controller.

The VCI300 and serato Itch was a direct link to me purchasing my 1st mackbook pro in 2008 in order to maintain superior reliability and stability equal to what I experienced with serato scratchlive 1.9.2 on Windows XP (f*#k Vista). It was at that time that it was confirmed to me that the Mac Operating System was the superior tool for Djing but my PREFERENCE for WINDOWS PC in regards to everything else never changed. So Ive been dual booting Mac/PC since 2008. My windows pc knowledge and experience far exceeds my above average Mac knowledge.

I currently own 2 sets of technic 1200's & 2010's, Rane sl1, Rane 57 & 62, pioneer CDJ1000's, Pioneer DDJ-sx2, my vinyl collection, JBL VRX sound system, qsc k12's, ev-zxa5's and 3 Mac's.

Musically my expertise is in Hiphop (old to new), R&B, Classic r&b/disco, House (not edm) Reggae. But I do play small sets of Latin (merengue, salsa, Bachata),soca, afrobeat, EDM and miscellaneous top 40 hits.

I dj all types of events including Weddings, baby shower, kiddy partys but my main focus is large private party events consisting of 250-600 guests indoors and outdoors in the NYC area and surrounding states.

I am the "Goto guy" among my dj partners, dj friends and associates for info, training on serato for Mac/pc, dj hardware and sound systems because im generally the first to use or study it. I have crew of approx. 6 dj partners that I tend to work closely with and many associate dj's and Party promoters that I provide sound systems for. For that reason i tend to stay very busy and experience more than the average dj in regards to Serato and its various versions, Mac and PC.


I talk about sound systems but I avoid the personally info because it may be "precised" as bragging which i am not a fan of.

soul63 i will address your other comments later, did want to be long winded ...lol

Here's some video from my free annual events in my neighborhood. Yea, Im actually a real working dj :)
Watchwww.youtube.com
Watchwww.youtube.com
Watchwww.youtube.com
Watchwww.youtube.com
Watchwww.youtube.com

Well here's a fun fact for you, Did you know that VDJ runs noticeable better on Windows PC compared to Mac OS X ? Ask some experienced users and they will tell you the same.

So are we now "Brand worshiping" Windows pc or does that get a pass ?

Here's another fun fact, Windows pc is far superior for gaming compared to mac osx....period.

Is that "Brand worshiping" or fact ?

Mac's are better because the Illuminati told you so. FACT
Mac's are better because the Illuminati make Apple powerful. FACT
The Illuminati told Apple to deny the FBI requests. FACT

This thread is now starting to attract the "I have not a clue what I'm talking about so lemme just throw random tech jargon to sound smart like" people. FACT

Fact...lol

So I figured out why 1.9.0 kept lagging on me. I turned the latency down to 2ms........well fack. I'm going to try 5ms.

Ironically, I used it at a local festival that I opened for this past Saturday and had no issues with it, but I do with the DDJ SR. Odd.

I wonder if Serato really does like Macs to the point where they can run a 1ms latency with no issues?

@pdidy..thanks for the info..interesting 2 of the videos you put up are of djs using pcs..i take it their freinds in your collective?not sure which one is you,its not bragging to mention what you do music wise.i still mantain brand plays a part.remember i have always approached this thread from a basic users standpoint..and a mac is not needed in that situation..the 40 djs using macs was introduced..but that got away from my basic point that those guys are not average users..the remark about a pc that could outperform a mac was of course a hypothetical question.@aka trap dont know who the jargon remark was aimed at ..cant be be me as i dont know any.lol..

this is what you said earlier..make your mind up.lol..did the illuminatti tell you it was a hype train?lol..

no..windows is an os which is installed on many brands of laptops..its not the os that causes brand worship..its the superficall branding that makes a mac attractive to many..who could disagree ..they look great..yes i use vdj and have read they perform better on pc..the reason i mentioned its a fact serato is the simplest software out of the box was to show how branding can effect opinions..hence when vdj is compared to serato, vdj is described as beginner software..brand distancing...how about asking the 2 members in your collective if their use of pcs hinders their performance in comparison to you on a mac i presume looking at your videos you all share the same hardware at events?

*sigh* here we go again.

Read the original post, all the way up in a galaxy far far away. The guy said he couldn't afford a Macbook. I suggested he spend less than a grand on a well-built PC to have Serato DJ function well. I don't even use a Macbook. I use an HP Omen, for one. Second, you're the only person that didn't detect the sarcasm in any of my latest posts. Third, you haven't even been here long enough to understand that ALL of us agree that the Macbook is the more convenient option, it's just an option the original poster can't afford, which is why I suggested the OP buy a PC under a grand with a quad-core. If he had extra money to spare, he could swap the HDD for an SSD and have a killer system without dropping almost two grand on it.

Jesus Christ. When will people learn to leave my ass alone?

lol..its ok i know you trying to keep in with the cool kids..but your sarcasm was aimed at me via pdidy your new best buddy on the thread..you know using the word "fact" a million times..so expect a reply..no need to cry.lol

Dude should just buy a Mid 2012 for less than $800 and be set.

Truth!!

Truth but dude ain't been dachshund here since lol

Back here...

Hello guys,
a SSD won't make Serato faster but the whole computer will benefit from it because when the OS will do background operations on the "drive", they will be done faster, so the wait cycles for every appz, asking process, will be shorter.

Only video and PnT will need raw power from the cpu, but the whole efx pack, the transport, the tracking and the library don't need a big cpu in fact and not that much memory.

Using a very old pc (not supported anymore unfortunately) I had no issue running all these controlers from the years : vci 300 NS6 DDJ SR/SX/SZ NS7 V7 only VCI 380/400 gave me drivers issues because they was poorly coded.

My spec are 2008 Lenovo C2D 2.5Ghz/4Gb/SSD 120Gb with nearly 10000 tracks and I don't have drop out or cpu overload, but as a long term geeky IT my computer is tuned to the bone. (fun fact, the hardware inside that laptop is the same as the Mac from the period, so dualboot hackintosh was easy in 10.6.x).
I'm using Win7x64 since a few years but XP was also lighter, I've changed because some drivers were better handled into W7.

Concerning the Mac, I'd like to avoid buying one. They're way too expensive for the hardware package.
Yes the OS is better for a lot of thing, the Coreaudio is a god send benefit BUT the whole experience is too far from what I'm experienced to since decades.

I already both 2 Macbook in my life and end up selling them after a week or two because I was not confortable at all, less productive and found them a lot less reactive (too many gui animation slowing things to make them smooth).

But now that my old trusty working pc is pushed to the side by Serato-Apple #obeyordie Inc, I'm forced to buy a Mac :

- El capitan seems to work... for some (what about the others ?)
- Apple don't want to sold new computer with Yosemite, even as an option ?
- Can we still bought Yosemite on their store ? (stupid store things)
- 2nd hand Mac can be doddgy too (replaced a board for a friend of mine)
- Already seen Mac crashing live more than once (so I'm not that sold on said reliability)
- Macbook/Air/Pro : all of them can run SDJ flawlessly ?
- Usb ports : 2 is a minimum, 3 would be perfect but I heard that now they only put 1 and you need to have an external hub. :/
- Library display issue with Retina : still not fixed by Serato ?

These are the questions on top of my head for now, thanks for chiming in guys, will ask more when it comes.

I think it boils down to what value you place on your time. There is a reason people hire butlers and drivers. Some will consider those people lazy, while they will consider themselves productive. Eg making business calls whilst you are being driven.

I will rather much use my time to be working on my Playlist than to be optimizing a Windows laptop.

If you want to get a Windows then go for it. Many people have chimed in here the decision is yours ultimately.

I haven't djed with a Windows based pc since 2010. I'm on my second Mac now. I do audio and video.

It works great just like new even after two years. No slowing down, no issues except for El Capitan, and I rolled back to Yosemite easy as it didn't work with Rane 62, but worked with SX.

Branding is a strong force but it's even better when it's matched with results.

Also keep in mind 10k is actually a very small library nowadays.


I didn't see any loading differences until around 30k files if I remember correctly. This was also with ssl. I do maintain three dif libraries one with 100k+ tracks, one with around 45k which is my main genre library and one with around 5k for testing rekord buddy and other apps.

I love hearing people talk about having 10k+ tracks and I only have 4,200ish.

@pdidy Not to hijack the thread, but your vids brought me home man. Respect to you for throwing parties in the parks for people. You're def bringing joy to some "grown and sexy" types and some OGs.

Big props.

Certainly one way to increase your chances of a problem free experience though.

Also want to add...
I bet I have a track he doesn't have, lol!

thanks Michael A

The free parties in the parks tend to be my favorite parties of the year even though there's NO money to be made and alot of hard work to be done.

there was actually 3 pc users but since two of the vids were shot that the same location at different times its hard to tell. The DJ on the DDJ-SZ has since updated to a Macbook Pro due to performance issues at the 2014 event. The other 2 pc dj's were guest dj's (for that event only) brought in by my dj partner.

We share hardware based on the type of event but there is always at least 2 setups. For my hiphop, R&B, reggae type events I may bring as many a 4 setups because 1200's or pioneer CDJ'S are preferred.

i played a gig last night with my latency set to 5ms and didn't have a single issue with the NS6 (minus the problems with the NS6 but those aren't Serato-related). I'm thinking about trying 2ms, or even lower, with the DDJ SR this Thursday, and gonna kill most of my background apps (Origin & MegaSync) in the process. 2ms caused some stuttering, though, so I'm not convinced it'll handle it. Ironically I didn't have that using the NS6 with 2ms latency.

Yah 2 ms is my limit. I stay at 1 ms with my quad core's but I tend to stick to 2 ms with the dual core's. The hardware I use does not affect performance in any way. I don't do any optimizations though with the exception of SMC fan control and the normal prioritizing. CPU usage stays around 10-15% rarely spiking at around 25-30% with all expansions on. I tried 5 ms on an older machine the other day (as for come reason I can install 1.9 on my old 2007 MacBook Pro when this has not been possible since 1.7 I believe) and I simply could not use after being spoiled by by newer hardware. It can run SSL and earlier versions of SDJ at 2ms but NOT 1.9. It crashes instantly upon turning on Pulselocker but I am not surprised being it is an unsupported OS, with an unsupported processor (Core2Duo) and less than minimum RAM as it has 4 GB but only "see's" 3GB due to limitations. Funny thing is there are users around that are using machines not far off from this as their primary machine LOL.

serato.com

Uhhhhh Ohhhhhh!!!

Already uninstalled it. I don't use any Apple proprietary audio/video format, so I couldn't care less about having it.

How long will it take for users to blame this on serato and hold them responsible in some way ?

I blame Serato.


See? Not long at all.

So, I used the NS6 with 1ms latency last night. Minus a few minor graphical hiccups with waveforms, not a single problem. Origin eats up too many resources.

Not gonna lie I love your honesty and I actually find so many reasons to believe you over any other Windows user. It is 100% clear that you are not trying to hide anything which is actually rare around here. This thread is titled to fuel debate and yet you don't let it get the best of you which I admire. No need to use words like Never and always when they are not true. As a Mac user I have NO problems saying that I have myself had issues in the past and I am confident I will at some point again. NOTHING is perfect so we do our best to find out what works best for each of us. I 100% wish I could go one platform (OS) or another but as long as there are exclusive apps either way I find it 100% necessary to use both Win and Mac.

"OK. I'll let you explain to me why I have yet to have a single issue with Serato in Windows 7 (an OS my laptop doesn't even officially support), 8.1 and Windows 10 but I've seen everything from audio issues to El Capitan issues to Macbooks straight shitting themselves in only a year of being an active DJ " this is what aka trap said..dave this is what you said " No need to use words like Never and always when they are not true" so in one breath you elevated aka trap to the position of most trusted pc user,then in the next breath tell him his above qoute is not true..lol...crazy...i've not made any wild claims in this thread i know what i can get out of my pc..if i decide to upgrade to pnt(which i'm thinking of) or upgrade to a more demanding controller..then a mac will know doubt be needed..i dont see the point in buying a high end pc to tweak if a mac would be less grief for about the same price..but i'm not at that point yet

I made a few search this week to see if I should go with Mac or PC. Price are Euros because I live in France.

I want a 13" with 8Gb ram and 256Gb SSD, for the display full HD should be enough for my needs.
So I made a little comparaison and laptops that made it after a first raw was :
HP Envy 13 / Dell XPS 13 / Asus UX3** /MBP 13 retina / MBA 13

Asus went out because to many users having issues (coil whine, wake-up, screen lighting) and poor customer service to solve this.
HP envy is the cheapest choice that could made it, but the large bezel arround the screen was so 2004... (said the guy that have a ugly Lenovo R61).

The Dell is the more expensive PC there, but design is nice, size is awesome.

This year it is more difficult than ever to choose a Mac, because you never know which year/model number/cpu used. They don't display anything valuable on there website so you need to go thru tests/benchmark/forums and this is what I found :

MBP 13 Retina 2015-03
Core i5-5257U 2.7 GHz turbo 3.1 Ghz TDP 23W
cpumark 4375 / single core 1716

MBA 13
Core i5-5250U 1.6 Ghz turbo 2.7 Ghz TDP 15W
cpumark 3904 / single core 1501

Adding now the PC :
XPS 13
Core i5-6200U 2.3 Ghz turbo 2.8Ghz TDP 15W
cpumark 3628 / single 1478

Yeah even the MBA is more powerful than the XPS. ^^

So now, let's talk about prices (in Euros):
MBP : 1649€
MBA : 1349€
XPS : 1299€ and actually there is a discount on the XPS for 1179€
ENVY-d010nf : 999€ (for the record)

The performances match the prices and without the discount the XPS is only 50€ below the MBA.
So I guess the MBA 13 is the winner here, the XPS will certainly be worth it with a bigger discount or when going out of production.

I think I cleared what you are asking but TBH a lot of it seems like mumbled typing (which I never knew existed) so I did my best.
Although you have no idea how to use the quote feature here I think I have cracked the code...................... to answer quite plainly So you say in one breath one thing was said and in the NEXT breath something else was said. Well apparently it takes 1 1/2 months and over 250 messages to take breaths..................

Point being a LOT has happened and akaTRAP has clearly changed his overall tune (or words at the least) and what he says comes across as accurate and fair. On can say things are great while leaving room to admit there is room for improvement. In a typical Mac vs PC debate you see extreme points with no room for the truth on either side and I find it refreshing to see such a change. That is all I am saying.
Couldn't help but notice "Always and "Never" did not exist in the words you were attempting (or should have attempted) to quote so not sure what your point is here.

The you yourself say:
This is implying that your waveforms are perfectly smooth and you would literally be the first Windows user who has ever had this (as far as I know) so I am giving you the same chance to prove yourself I give everyone and trust mixlr will not help you here.

Upload a video showing a screenshot showing your waveforms and 1ms (or even 2ms), screen updates at 30 updates per second, all expansions on using DVS and if the waveforms are nice and smooth you will in fact have won this debate. I have multiple videos ready to go (I have been through this before LOL) so let me know when you are ready. Just a heads up the last guy that backed down from this had quite the rig and cost him something like $3500 if I remember correctly.

Notice I am keeping it friendly so please do the same. You challenged me and now I challenge you....................

www.dropbox.com

Just a taste. Be sure to download and not just stream as dropbox makes it stutter a bit when streaming sometimes.

BTW this is with my lowest spec'd MacBook Pro being a 2012 2.9 GHZ dual Core I7 8 GB RAM and 750 GB HDD.

My other 2012 has 16 GB RAM and SSD and my 2013's are both quad core 15"s so trust you are seeing the bottom of the barrel running at 1ms with all expansions on (including Pitch n Time) and running DVS doing a bit of test scratching.

BTW this is in NO way intended that Mac is the better or only choice. I have already disclosed I love and prefer Windows for my everyday use. This is purely to show that things are not quite as perfect as some are claiming as I already 100% know what will come of this.



BTW....................... your turn.

"Never and always" is a direct qoute from your post...yes i agree that my qoutes were hard to read..apolgies to anybody who has problems reading them..take a deep breath dave..read back what i have said about what i claimed i can achieve,using amx mc2000 basic workflow..its all there open and honest..waveforms mean little to me whilst broadcasting or the people in my chatroom..audio stabillity is the key for me..so yes i have has never had any problems..ok you say aka trap has changed his tune or words..so that clears it up then.lol..dont you think aka trap should be the judge of that?..not sure what the link is from dropbox..i do my broadcasts live..i should know if i have issues or not..aint got a clue what you mean by "mixlr cant help me" lol..so i stand by my claims you dont have to accept them .thats fine

Seems to me all you have claimed is that things are not perfect but are good enough for your (and the people in your chatroom's) uses. Is this correct. If this is in any way incorrect I will explain a bit more clearly (although I am going to have to get VERY craft to figure out how as it all seems pretty basic) what is going on here. But FTR mixlr can not help you here as that is an audio based solution while this topic has been mostly visual.

As for the link (as with all links) the best way to find out what it is........................ is to click on it, no?

lol..what are talking about..i challenged you on your contradiction..which you are not putting down to aka trap changing his tune or words..i see no evidence of that..please point it out to me dave? his last post mentioned a small minor glitch in waveforms..apart from that he has been steadfast in his claims..and you have jumped on that..if aka trap wants to come on and take back what all he has said,,fine..i have no dropouts,no crashes,seems pretty perfect to me..how more perfect would you like it to be?lol..i use effects,drops,jog wheels..load and play thats my basics..does the job..as for your link..what does that have to do with my claims..oh and sorry i only take live submissions..is it something you did at home? cant listen right now

*now putting down..typo...

oh and just a heads up dave..lol..i wont be backing down from anything its up to you to disproove what i have said,,you are changing the goalpost now,,live recordings or broadcast are not enough proof for you..now in your mind its all about visuals..lol..crazy..you just add things on to confuse the situation..i have already pointed out to you my honest and open claims..describing what i do and what i use..i dont really know what more info you want

djhsoul on mixcloud or soundcloud...check it out..people can check out my claims...dj skills well thats another matter..lol...but thats not what this is about..cast your expert ear over it dave.....sorry no visuals..lol...anybody who says the sound is crap blame serato or the amx or mc2000 over to you dave

I will say, I finally messed around with OBS + Chew.TV for broadcasting my music video sets all on the same Mid 2012 MBP and had no problems.

Serato DJ
Mix Emergency
OBS broadcasting 2.5Mbit video + 320Kb audio feed to Chew.tv
Safari
Twitter

All over wifi with no hiccups, drop outs, etc. Next time I have a theme night I might fire up Flyboost as well for more social media interaction on the screen.

Still impressed at how much these 4 year old models can do without issue.

Yeah man my 2012 13" Dual Core I7's are still my preferred machines even over my 15" Quad core i7's. Somebody got something VERY right that year :)

I bet I could run SDJ in W8.1 at 1ms with little issues, if any, if I turned off every background app I could possibly have minus my Nvidia Control Panel............now that I actually look, that's just Origin and my anti-virus, and Avast doesn't like to be shut off so easily. Soooo annoying. But I've already done 2ms on the NS6 with no issues and did 1ms for two hours with no issues minus some minor stuttering, and that can either just be a simple one-time thing or Avast running in the background (the likely culprit).

I also had Traktor opened to analyze a song I forgot to do before playing via Serato, still no issues. Gotta love quad-cores.

Was this with Win 8?

Personally have not used antivirus in almost 5 years on the Windows machines obviously. I run malwarebytes every now and then but other than that I just do complete re-install every 8 months or so to keep things fresh.

BTW any chance of a video yourself? Curious to see the graphical hiccups myself. I guarantee it is far better than I have experienced myself with Windows so very keen to see for myself.

Windows 8.1, no video, just some stuttering whenever I used the knob to select a track, and considering I rarely use a knob anyway, I couldn't care less. Basically imagine trying to scroll with the knob and the screen pauses for a brief moment, though with no interruption to your scrolling. Something like that, and I think that's due to background programs.

So I did something crazy this weekend...after 10 years of DJing exclusively with Apple MacBooks, I bought a Windows ultrabook and I'm gonna try it out.

For the past 4 years I've been running Serato Scratch Live / Serato DJ on a 2012 15" MacBook Pro. It's upgrade time and I was too impatient / nervous to wait until WWDC.
I ordered a Razer Blade Stealth ultrabook - www.razerzone.com

Stay tuned for videos.

I really do want that new Razer Blade, but I don't want anything bigger than a 1080p screen on a laptop, nor am I sold on buying a laptop for gaming when I kinda want to move onto a desktop. Still, not a bad choice at all. Good luck.

Thanks, should be interesting.
I went with the QHD model and not the 4K, so the resolution will be 2560 x 1440.
This will be primarily for DJing with Serato DJ, along with web browsing and Netflix-and-chilling. I'm not a gamer at all, unless Solitaire counts.
The new Razer Blade 14" is overkill for me and I want the portability of the Stealth over the power of the Blade 14".
I'll do my best to show how SDJ performs on the Stealth in my upcoming videos.

1440p is going to be nice, but you might want to have some scaling on. My laptop is 1080p and it took me a while to get used to running Serato on it since it doesn't eat up screen real-estate anywhere near the same as Traktor does. Might not have a problem if you have pretty good vision, though (I'm near-sighted).

Looking forward to this!

Yep yep, Rebelguy on point.

Concerning the whole PC vs Mac debate: I guess we have a clear winner if you're using AAC files or video files.

Hate to say it (because I never had any issues with SSL on Windows):
Get a Mac.

Serato DJ is using QuickTime to decode AAC and MP4 files. QT is not supported by Apple on Windows anymore. There ya go.

OT: Anyone see the review for the MCX8000 from Digital DJ Tips? I really want one, now.

www.digitaldjtips.com

You can still use AAC and MP4 files within Serato (Win) even if you have removed the exe files. That is what their article is all about : support.serato.com

"If you remove these two .exe application files, you have minimised the security risk and are able to continue using Serato Video and AAC audio files in Serato DJ. If you do not use Serato Video at all and/or do not have any AAC audio files in your library, you will be safe to remove the entire Quicktime folder."

Minimized is not eliminated and this dialog from same link:

"NOTE: AAC files can be converted to other supported filetypes using a number of third party applications e.g. iTunes.

We are continuing to investigate this issue, but in the meantime please keep Quicktime installed and make sure you always download files from a trusted provider! Be careful of your sources and don't load anything suspicious."

Does not make this sound like a solid solution IMO.

This is by NO MEANS applicable for all users but we can ALL agree that SOME windows users are there due to lack of financial freedom to move to Mac and this directly puts these individuals at a higher risk as they will be the ones obtaining "suspicious" from sketchy (at best) sources.

Obviously this happens all the way up the food chain (Kanye got caught recently right? LOL) but all I am saying is this will probably not help the cause. To make matters worse these users will most likely NOT be the proactive ones doing all they can to protect themselves and at the very least "minimize" the risks as much as possible.

Interesting because Sorenson uses Quicktime in their encoding suite Squeeze and I just got an email today with this:

"Note: CERT has issued an alert recommending users uninstall QuickTime on Windows. Squeeze for Windows must have Quicktime installed to function, but there are several workarounds to this problem. This affects Squeeze for Windows only. We're currently looking at several solutions and will keep you updated as the situation changes."

So it's not just Serato trying to figure this issue out...

what a pompous immature person you are...oh the poor people who cant afford a mac what shall we do with them...not going to happen to you is it with your 4 macs is it...so delusional dave ,what is it you actually do...i've seen you talk about your "craft" talk about how you are a "proffesional dj" yet a google of you throws up no results from 2011 onwards?..when was the last time you played out live?..and how often..your shallow bragging of what material goods you own is rather unpleasent..grow up little boy..sick of reading your crap...

Jeeze man, not everyone has time or cares about SEO. Some douche nozzle was trying to but on me for only having so many LIKES on my freaking Facebook page that I never promote. Some people have been doing stuff long enough to do quite well via word of mouth.

BUT = BUST :D

seo? my point is a fair one..finances have nothing to do with with quicktime withdrawing support..bringing into the equation what people can afford..is just a cheap swipe at those that cant afford mac..no need for it..think what you want

word of mouth my ass..lol..if you claim to be a proffessional dj..there will be current google links..every single working dj i know has them..past and current

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

so lets go with the twisted finance logic..everbody who bought an expensive mac its your fault apple changed the software,so now its your fault if your expensive controllers mixers dont work..not apples fault your fault..you shouldnt buy expensive macs mixers controllers..crazy

Dude you need to chill out... Smoke a bowl or drink a pint or something.

thanks for the advice

I have 4 Macbooks and an Imac..
Lots of mixers and contollers...

I should grow up too, LOL!

anyway this thread is for us poor windows users..lol..i did unistall quicktime..because i thought i didnt have many affected files..turned out i did..so reinstalled using the support guide..taking a risk yes..only time will tell

Let's understand ONE thing here. I have absolutely NOTHING to prove to you. SO I am responding as a courtesy. You challenged pdidy earlier and now me? I will not be providing a single other piece of material you can twist as bragging as it involves a lot of pictures of things you don't have (just messing with you here btw) You are so defensive like you are lacking in some way. I hope you find what it is.

My challenge made earlier is of PC's visuals and NOT you. It was in no way personal and exists for anyone willing to take it. Furthermore I came up with it for a positive reason. NOT to say what everyone has is crap but to come up with the best KNOWN Windows Laptop. You took it as PC's audio and would not budge and later claiming that visuals do not matter to you................... where do we go from there? Nowhere. We just have different priorities. Can we move on without the hostility and defensiveness?

What I said:
Puts nobody above anything (well maybe those above Kanye LOL) I said and singles out nobody.

Any mention of what I have (material or not) is for reasons of being thorough (on what I test with, broadness of claims, etc.) but if you can provide the proof where it was bragging I will apologize on the spot. This is visual proof again I am asking for so I am hoping this goes better than the last time and if indeed you are correct I am hoping this goes better so I can learn from it.

BTW me showing up on google has NOTHING to do with anything but the fact that is when I joined Facebook LOL................... and 2012 is when I stopped using it I also go by a different name and also have an entirely different company name. Did any of this occur to you as a possibility? Did you really think you figured my entire life out on one google search. You will learn that it is not true what they say and you can find anything on Google. You would need to know what you are looking for.

As mentioned you really do need to calm down.

Anyways I thought I made my intentions (and even love for Windows) pretty clear here but maybe not. If anything I said was taken as hostile or "bragging" as you say I apologize. Can we please stop the madness?

Slight misinterpretation of "Mac. Vs PC" I think.

BTW this right here is the very reason I NEVER post in the setup threads. I love my hardware and get excited about it (probably more than the next guy) but I actually go out of my way to not brag (or so I thought). This thread is actually about computers (not just Windows) so I figured it was safe to post about the computers I use. I don't recall myself mentioning the hardware I use it with. When the topic calls for it I will/do though. Is this wrong? I also don't recall even claiming Mac is better overall so I do not understand the defensiveness in the least.

With the exception of the personal challenging this thread has seemingly maintained its topic so hopefully it can continue as there has been some positive results and in respect to this I promise I will pay not one more bit of attention to this and most know me as a man of my word.

no you dont need to provide anything..youve told me all i need to know..shame though that you wont put up a link to your different name and company name..think i need to learn to ignore your posts..impossible to get a straight answer

Let's stay on topic - Mac vs PC in 2016.

As I posted above, I'm currently waiting for my new Razer Blade Stealth to arrive. I'm going to be testing it out with Serato DJ and we'll see how it performs. Expect some video reviews once I have some time to mess with it.

For as long as I can remember, the argument was always 'get a Mac, it just works.' And they did. But with Apple focusing on consumers more than professionals these days (IMO), I'm curious to see if the Blade Stealth can do just as good a job, if not better, than the MBP I have now. (FYI, I'll just be DJing with MP3s, no videos or other audio file formats for me.)

Let's all agree that OS X El Capitan was a huge fuck-up on Apple's part. It broke compatibility with audio interfaces that virtually every DJ with a Mac used. And it's still not completely fixed, almost 7 months later.

That's not to say that Microsoft didn't have some OS bombs of their own. That's part of the reason most DJs stayed away from using them. But if Windows 10 is solid, then I'm happy to give it a try.

I'll still use a Mac for music production, video editing, web browsing, etc. just because I like the Mac experience. But if the Blade Stealth does a good job with Serato DJ, it just might become my new primary DJing machine.

deejdave is one of the most knowledgeable users on the forum and owns (past and present) more gear than 99% of us.

Just thought id let you know what ya getting into so you'd have a fair advantage.....

aaaaaand......go :)

lol..dont know who is more childish you or him..seen his pics i know what he owns..not a lot of good in your bedroom is it paris....aaaaaaaaand go..smh..anyway i'm not getting involved with anymore post from dj secret squirrel..lol..you to can ramble on together .

You two make a great couple ;)

NIK, quit creepy stalking me I'M A BOY ! (kat Willians voice)

I'm already excited to have this same discussion all over again with "Mac vs PC in 2017".

lmao me too

We should have a new title for thethread though...

FACT vs FLUKE

I wish I had an extra room to hold all my gear, these days it's a garage that holds mine. How is having all your stuff hooked up at home a bad thing? Every software update and hardware upgrade gets vigorously tested there before I even think about using it LIVE. I still break my stuff down each gig and take it to wherever I am playing...... do you not use your gear at home?

Look at the thread "Does anyone else feel like..." in this same forum. I think the only common denominator is Mac.

I run two low end Windows 10 PC's. SDJ runs solid, albeit with jittery waveforms, which I can live with.

My waveforms jitter any time I am doing anything OTHER than mixing (so browsing library, dicking around in Safari, etc) but is stable and that's on my 4 year old macbook pro. Is that what everyone cries about? Or are high end 2015 PC/MAC people saying they couldn't mix by eye because it's like a stop motion animation movie?

The waveform issue is well documented elsewhere in the forum, and Serato is well aware of it.

As far as I know, this issue occurs on both OS X and Windows.

I think most use the tempo matching display for mixing by eye or simply use SYNC if beat grids are good etc. The waveforms are just unfortunate being going back to 1.7 makes them perfectly smooth again. It is seemingly the new GUI tech that has caused this new issue.
Using 1.7 or 1.9 is no different for me using Windows in terms of waveforms but hopefully someone else could confirm this themselves. As mentioned all over the forums the audio end of Windows has improved greatly in recent releases and appears to be the best it has been. The largest issue with Mac (in terms of affected users) ATM is El Capitan where it is much more than waveforms being affected. I can't personally comment on it much more as I stay behind by one OS and even two OS's in some cases for Mac. Windows I stay up to date though.

I was trying to show that in the other thread (Does anyone else feel like...), that everyone complaining about their problems with SDJ (with all kinds of mixers/controllers) had one thing in common - a Mac. The waveform issue is totally separate.

^^^^media.giphy.com

Didn't show that the waveform issue was separate, or that everyone in that thread saying their having problems was using a Mac?

I suppose we will just ignore the posts on that thread that literally mention it specifically?

We could link posts all day of issues with specific OS's but what does this solve? serato.com

If you do a search on "Mac Issues" the vast majority include "El Capitan" THIS is a real denominator.

I'm hoping sticking to 1.7.8 and Yosemite will work. It runs well on Win 7 64 bit for me with a fast I5-3320 processor SSD and 8 GB of memory. (On a 4 YO refurb dell of all things!)

Is 1.9 giving you issues?

Or do you mean sticking as in you have not tried anything newer?

No sir, haven't tried anything beyond 1.7.8. It works and I only have one laptop at the moment. I have a rMBP on the way, and I may experiment with 1.9 on Yosemite on that one (maybe). I've really been wanting to play with the new pitch n time effects but even as a hobby and playing for friends wouldn't risk jacking up my workflow. I firmly subscribe to the camp of not upgrading for the sake of early adoption.

Can you give the specs for those in search that could land on that thread please ?

I have previously posted specs of PCs that can do the job but I'm sure yours are cheaper so I'm also interested to know what is reachable on the low end side of the spectrum.

Thanks.

Also just to be thorough which do you use of these:
HID
SP-6
DVS
Pitch n Time
4 channels
FX
Performance features (cue points, slicer, etc)
Pulselocker

Not that these must be used by all or that they define a DJ but just so people know what to expect is all.

Skimming through the 40 something comments shows me that I haven't missed much of anything.

#1 Acer
Intel Pentium Dual-Core T4500 @ 2.3 GHZ
4 GB Ram

#2 Asus
Intel Celeron Dual-Core N2830 @ 2.16 GHZ
4 GB Ram

Both have Windows 10 Home V1511 64 bit. Both have the same Serato analyzed library on internal HD's - I don't trust the usb connectors on external HD's.
No third party virus protection.
Cortana is turned off
Wifi is off (I don't use Pulselocker)
High Power Setting, and I make sure the cooling vents on the bottom are not blocked.
No iTunes - in the PC world, iTunes is about the closest thing to a virus you can put on your own computer, so I use Foobar2000 instead. Since I want to be able to drag and drop between Foobar and Serato Dj, I do not run Serato DJ in Admin Mode as suggested by Serato.

Serato DJ 1.8.2 and 1.9.0 is on both, but I've only done long gigs with 1.8.2 (I have run 1.9.0 at home in Auto Play for 8 hrs. at a time).
Latency = 5ms, Screen Refresh = 30/sec also on both. I've tried 60/sec hoping it would smooth the waveform, it did not.

Both laptops are used with Vestax Typhoon 2-channel controller's. Maybe 25% of my library has Que Points I use, so I do use Auto-Loop a lot, and the FX function I use the most is the cool one controlled by the Typhoon's platters.

Cpu's never go into the red on them, both have never had a hick-cup. I'm obviously not pushing these machines hard (i.e. a lot of the stuff on deejdave's list), but they are low end, so a high end PC should be even better.

Ok, didn't expect a Celeron do to the job but anyway, some folks will probably be happy about that.

A simple test to do with any computer and app to know if it can handle the load :
- 4 deck running
- all effects on (and twisting knobs at the same time
- sync and moving the pitch slider of the master
- hot load track on decks while they run

If the audio and the cpu seems fine you won't have any issue (don't be scared by GUI lagging on load).
Note : DVS will obviously add some load above all that, so again test with your real setup.

I did this test recently with RekordBox on my old dog, it was on a steady 90% on the cpu gauge of the software. Not bad for a software that people are calling cpu hungry.

4Gb of ram is more than enough if you don't plan to use video because you will only use it for sampler and decoding loosy audio files.
For some very big database (XX thousands I would say) you will see some improvement too with more ram but for simple use, not needed at all.

* forgot master tempo (or PnT) on the decks too while testing.

now's my chance to say something really important.


macs suck cuz they suck. yay.

I will just add to the conversation that I have a 2 year old Alienware 14 laptop that I use with Serato DJ. This computer is still running Windows 7 and it runs really well with Serato DJ and Serato Video. IMO... the Mac vs PC argument is almost a personal preference thing now with most of the Mac internals being the same as a PC. The only real difference is the OS. If someone were to ask about a good Windows PC for DJing my opinion would be to advise them to look strongly at gaming PC's. I know I run a risk with having quicktime on this computer but, I am very careful with and have this computer running all kinds of protection to help keep viruses off this computer. I have had a Mac in the past as well and I just prefer to use PC. This is my opinion and everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

So your comparing a 2 year old laptop that probably has a i series processor to a 8 year old Mac with a core 2 duo processor, I swear the people posting on here are just getting more retarded by the day

I also still have a 8 year old Mac with a core 2 processor. I was adding my opinion for people looking for to decide on a Mac or a PC if you would have read my comment for what it was worth DJ Sparky.

Where are you getting that from? He didn't even mention that in his post...........

i believe he checked his history.

this post has been very informative and entertaining to say the least.. Im in the same boat as well though.. I've looked at getting a rMBP and then thinking the money im about to spend on one of those i could save a lil mo money or get an XPS. with my VCI-380 my MBP crashes unless i turn everything off **especially WiFi**... with my S9 there is significant freezes while typing in or scrolling for music. I won't even speak about trying to mix videos bcuz it sucks emu cock..

Im running a mid 2010 13in MBP w/Yosemite (starts up with Mavericks tho)
2.4 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
250HDD, 250SSD
GeForce 320M 256 (dying slowly, starting to pixelate, and cmd opt p,r does help it)
16GB (Mac store folks say its over kill)

Every machine has its problem, its just a matter of dealing and fine tuning.. im tired of dealing w/Mac right now.. So If i can get away with a 6th gen i7 for less than a 1K then cool. I guess im really trying to keep from buying another MBP or a 15in screen anything.. 13in screen is enough for me.. any suggestions.. Thanks in adv.

As a fellow Mac user, my advice would be to wait until Apple's WWDC event (June 13) before making any computer purchase, Mac or PC. That is when Apple will reveal their new/updated MacBooks. Whatever changes the new MacBooks will have may influence your decision on your next DJing laptop.

Mufasa, note that Serato doesn't support Core 2 Duo's anymore, and haven't since around 1.8.0. It's time for an upgrade.

Those new refreshes won't make any difference. They'll probably have faster storage (which doesn't matter at all for Serato 'cept program loading times), a Skylake processor (still doesn't matter since Mac have great battery life), and maybe, MAYBE, a new GPU, and Serato Video doesn't even need that powerful of a dedicated GPU.

Faster storage is better for everything, including loading tracks in Serato. Skylake processors will make Mac's already great battery life even better. These improvements are exponentially greater coming from a 2010 MBP (or a 2012 MBP like mine).
I would just hate to buy a new MacBook tomorrow, only to find out that brand new models are going to be revealed a month later.
The real potential problem is going to be the OS. After the catastrophe of El Capitan (which still isn't completely fixed), I'm worried that the next version may also have problems, and will be preinstalled on the new MacBooks. We'll have to wait and see.

My friend runs an older HP Pavilion with W7 and a traditional hard drive, and I run an HP Omen with a PCIe-based SSD and a quad-core i7 4710HQ. Faster storage doesn't increase music loading time. If anything that's more CPU-bound. Hell the 2015 MBPr has a 2.4GHz read speed and a 1.2GHz write speed. Only thing that's going to benefit is boot-ups, program access times, and maybe accessing HUGE video files (that'll quickly fill up every SSD-storage option in the first place). Storage that fast isn't being fully utilized. You'd have a fun time finding a program that needs faster storage than what SATA provides, let alone m.2 & PCIe-based storage.

Matter of fact I bet you'd do just fine buying any Retina from 2013 'til now, even if the refreshes have Skylake CPU's. And any of those Retina's will support the latest OS.

I don't know why people keep getting excited for new OS's knowing that Serato takes a few months to support them, like they did with El Capitan, W8, 8.1, and 10.

Thanks for the responses. I used to get excited about new OS's til I decided to make a career change into the IT world. Then I realized WTH is the use. As soon as I turn the system on its gonna ask me to update software that should already have the latest. As well as the rest of the bugs they didn't bother to fix b4 releasing the product. SMH

I use externals for all of my music (video & mp3) so I try keep the internal drives free besides the other nonsense. Oh yeah, akaTrap I chuckled at the 100K of mp3's. (3700 and counting, I'm not worthy)

Joe,
switching up wouldn't be a bad thing. I had SSL running on a Dell Inspiron 1500 w/WIN7 for a good while b4 I switched to the MBP. IMO, since Jobs passed all Apple products have gone to sh** and Microsoft is gaining ground fast

Trap,
I haven't been able to find any 2013 MBP, OWC only have a bunch of 2012's which IMO is way over priced. I could get a new one for the amount they are asking for. I will hit up eBay and amazon.

the search continues... Thanks good people

There are quite a few, albeit manufacturer refurbished, Retinas on eBay for around a grand, but they're the infamous 2012 edition, which was known for its LG panel having screen burn-in issues. If you do decide to go that route, at least confirm they have a Samsung panel. Though if they're refurbished from Apple, they more than likely have the better panel.

You can also check Apple's website for used Retinas.

i think its impossible to suggest a pc that wont cost the same as a mac but run serato without audio issues,the waveform issue is not a concern for me..we never had waveforms back in the day obviously but audio quality has always been the priority from day one..look on the mc800 thread couple guys using windows one has had couple crashes and gone back to mac..neither say which laptop they use(unless i missed that part in that thread) every new version of serato will cause issues for windows users.so it is a gamble with windows...its a very personal thing,what hardware you use,what features you use,what version of serato you are on.etc etc..no size fis all...i think all dj shops should have100s of pcs in store to test with every single controller ever made..lol...thats what your facing with pcs...

I haven't been in that thread, but I will say I have more issues (mostly latency) with the DDJ SR than I did with the NS6. I can use the NS6 on my HP Omen at 1ms latency just fine, but doing it with the SR causes graphical hiccups in Serato. I still can't figure out why. My friend has an NS7II, and I can also use that on 1ms latency just fine.

The Mac is not at fault here, this is a simple case of user error even if it were a windows PC.

And the error is where exactly pdidy o.O?

Don't want to be rude, but what is the utility of having expanded battery life on a mixing laptop ? oO
Why would you need 8-10-12h far from a wall plug ? Even 2h is more than enough to prepare/update any library on the fly.

akaTRAP, it's funny because I went to Pioneer exactly because I have the opposite issue.
My NS6 was barely usable, tested the SX it was a dream, the VCI 380 was even worse than the NS6. (speaking of audio drivers).
So I bought a SR and it was stronger on my old dog than the NS6.

Spark, I had such a hard time trying to get the audio drivers to work with the 380. I almost took the damn thing back. Wooooosahhh, and then it worked. I just needed to stop being impatient. Then the freezing started...SMH **when it rains, it pours**

Does one need an Antivirus software with Windows 10?

Unless you are being naughty on your production machine, Windows Security Essentials should be fine and has as low overhead as any third party program will.

I just need a spare machine for work stuff, which is basically reading journals, making presentations, watching netflix, take on flights etc.

I will use it for downloading music and videos. Which also posits the question...Can osx and windows share the same library seamlessly?

Caught between the XPS 13 9350 (Qhd) vs the 2016 Macbook vs MBA 11" vs rMBP 13"

If you happen to be on the road and like to do other things besides DJ'ing (or a student like myself), battery life will matter.

The SR I use is one owned by the bar I play at, so there's no telling what damage that thing has gone through. That and I don't think my USB cable is of a high-enough quality to fully drive that thing. I'm going to grab one of those oyaide cables pretty soon.




Do you need an antivirus? Not necessarily. So long as you know what to avoid, like don't click on random links in messages from people you rarely talk to, don't log into Twitter if the website is misspelled (common phishing technique), don't torrent anything to be on the safe side, and you shouldn't need an antivirus. I still have one out of habit, but smart users won't have their anti-virus put in serious work. Though sometimes trojans and malware slip through the cracks (especially cryptoware), so it's better safe than sorry.

BTW, you'd do better having things you want to share between a Mac and a PC on a NTFS-formatted drive. Certain drive formats can't communicate with each other. For example, a drive formatted for Mac can't be thrown in an external case and plugged into a Windows PC because it won't recognize it (trust me, I've tried this before; had to use special software to get my data back). The reverse isn't true for Macs, however.

i don't remember how i did it but i am able to do it with my USB 1TB WD for music and movies..

i don't remember how i did it but i am able to do it with my USB 1TB WD for music and movies.. akaTrap, do you remember what software u used to get ur data back?

I don't remember; it was at least four years ago at this point. I will say though the last time I tried to plug in my external to a Mac, it couldn't read it, even though it works fine on my Windows laptop, and it's formatted in NTFS.

As akaTRAP stated.....


So as a user it is your sole responsibility to know the limitations/requirements of your hardware/software and. Your 2010 core2 duo mac is below spec and does not meet Serato DJs system requirements.

It is not the fault of the laptop for not performing up to your expectations because the Laptop is performing as to be expected when used beyond its limitations. So even if this were a windows pc, it would be unfair to blame the laptop when the user is using it improperly.

This is why it's user error.

Well imagine that.. i guess i should consider myself lucky being that I still use SSL 2.5 with my 56S and SL1 when no longer feel like BTW, it works w/o any problems and its requirements are in line with my MBP. Sry for not mentioning that i still use both.
continuing...

just bcuz they don't support it doesn't mean i can't use it.. I can use SDJ for a few hours and even mix some videos b4 just as long as I shut off a few things that I probably don't need on anyways (WiFi, BT, Plex, 2 open browser w/5 tabs, itunes, Camtasia, etc.)

So yes as akaTrap said
not bcuz of user error, but the fact that I just need separate laptop dedicated to just Dj'n and technology is forever changing and i like new toys.

I'm sorry this is not a user error.
This is a dev team error, they didn't have a clear view of the platform share of their users.

Before doing any change to the product, you have to do the math an know what will be the effect on your target. In that case Serato didn't have that view of their users map.

When we bought Serato products then, we were within specs, specs have changed and let us in the dust.

Why does specs have changed ? Because something have been added into the software. This thing is so shitty and poorly coded that it can't be handled by C2D processors even if they still have enough juice and power.
The easy solution instead of fix it (or ask the provider of the API/framework to fix his shit) before putting it into Serato have been to raise the specs for no real technical reason, only for marketing reason (adding that shit should be the thing you must do obviously if you want to people look at you again).

So yes we now have that impressive feature ! Cool, does someone inside have calculate/evaluate the impact of such decision before and after it have been made ? I really doubt.

As a quality manager, ex- customer support manager I would have never give my approbation to that kind of thing that :
1- give way more support tickets
2- could probably make customers turn their back on us (and it is)
3- show how low we have became to be that kind of whore that would do anything for attention and a few dollars
4- give opportunity to opponents to eat some of our cake (rekordbox was really on time with their DVS realease !)

No luck needed there as I also still run my backup mbp 2.4 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo dedicated to scratchlive on my sl57 and sl1. Your mac just like mine will run scratchlive flawlessly but serato DJ is a totally different story.

The reason you're wrong is because you're arguing "what should be" or "what would be Better" while this discussion is strictly about documented Facts in regards to system requirements. (No opinions, just facts)

So as you see those are two totally different topics right ?

That being said I agreed that Serato's coding may be a bit lazy, inefficient and resource intensive (no debate from me there). On that topic I don't believe Serato would even dispute it.

I repeat : "When we bought Serato products then, we were within specs, specs have been changed afterwards" for whatever good or bad reason.
This is still not a user error.

When your Iphone 4 or 5 cannot handle the latest IOS update this is still not a user error.

@DJ_Marv As best as I understand formatting:

To use the external to read/write from both Windows and Mac I believe you need to format it in EXFAT (for files over 4 GB) or FAT32 (if all files will be under 4 GB). I'm doing this and it works well. You can have either OS read/write to an NTFS or HFS formatted drive, but to do that you need a third party app installed on the Mac or Windows machine respectively.

I actually agree but in all fairness this is not a dev team error either. This is just progress and moving forward IMO. The iPhone 4 in fact can NOT handle the latest OS and this is in no way Apples fault. You use the latest OS you can and get by. With Serato you use the latest version AND OS you can and get by with that. I don't feel it is fair to expect any software developer to make sure all of their future software works with ANY given set of hardware.

It is the USER'S responsibility to know whether or not their device is supported by whatever software they use, as it is the developers' responsibility to inform you. In this case, Serato told us a while ago that Core 2 Duo processors were no longer supported. Him not knowing that IS user-error. Whether or not you agree with them dropping support for it is another discussion.



Pretty sure this is correct information. I completely forgot about FAT format since I don't use it.

Seems fair...

Fortunately now, I know why they did drop support but just saying "end of support now" without further explanation just made me mad at first.

I can understand that you won't provide support for older platform (again political/marketing choice because I was in that position and fought for not letting down so many customers) but say it with more details like that new feature is not compatible, or the new code can't be handled due to this or that, it would have been easier to accept that decision or again give a countdown like at version 1.8.0 we will stop supporting C2D. Not discovering the day of the 1.8 that I can't no longer sitting in that bus !

/rant

I can see why they wouldn't, but for them to be a poorly-optimized 32-bit program, the last thing they need to be doing is worrying about what hardware & OS's not to support (I don't think they support anything older than Mountain Lion on the Mac side of things). Give me 64-bit (for both OS's) with 64-bit class-compliant drivers (for you Mac users....hell if that were to happen my ass would switch so quick) and THEN I can see a good reason why not to support an aging dual-core processor.

Even Traktor is 64-bit, now. Analyzing 3,500+ songs takes 30 minutes & Serato takes an hour on my quad-core 4710HQ. I wish I were kidding.

/rant

Option 3 ?....how about take the laptop out of the equation !! and instead use the cash to buy a Pioneer xdj-rx OR Denon mcx8000 and use usb's. keeping your existing macbook at home running either engine or rekordbox for prepping the sticks.

Because it takes forever to search through your 4,000+ song library when you're an open-format DJ that switches every 90 seconds without a laptop screen.

That and Engine doesn't even allow more than 1,000 songs per playlist. My Hip-Hop crate is already at 1,230 songs, and my White Girl Anthemz playlist (yes, it really exists), is at 924.

how many tracks can you play in a night? back in the day we never took thousands of tracks..if you make a folder depending on how many genres you play of say 80 of each genre..would not that be enough to put on usb stick for engine?..you must have enough quality in your collection for that amount to be enough? sometimes i only have one crate in my libary with enough tunes to cover two hours..i dont do requests though..nor am i ever asked

Damn man, that's a cringeworthy name for a playlist.

I actually counted how many songs I played a specific night, and hit over 120 songs across four hours. Since I work at a college bar, I (sometimes) take requests. Luckily the amount of people that ask me has decreased in my year of being there. The number 1 reason I like the laptop screen so much is I can browse through three dozen songs quickly and can see name, artist, BPM, and rating at once, and it also helps me remember some of the tracks I labeled as being good but rarely play because I keep forgetting about them.



Inside joke, but long story short, a lot of basic bitches go to the bar I DJ at, so the playlist originally was designed to prevent them from coming to my booth and annoying the shit out of me with their requests. I once had a girl ask me for some song, told her I didn't have it and even searched for it in front of her. She stood there for almost a half hour, first went "Don't you think I'm pretty?" NO. I'm too drunk to care (I actually said that, btw). Then had the nerve to reach over and try to start typing, to which I promptly told her "Don't touch my fucking equipment". STILL didn't get the message and continued to stand there and asked me AGAIN for a song I had told her twice I didn't have. That girl's part of the reason why they now rope off my DJ booth and only allow me & my friends inside.

i like that name, it call em 'girlie jamz' but tbh, they usually are white girl anthems.



thats about where i am at pop college type bars, and i find it the same way.

having all those songs in one place is nice, and even if am gonna play the same song week after week, i might change it up with a remix, party break version or a mashup/boot every week just to keep it fresh. of course if you travel to another city every week its no big deal to play the same set over and over(see edm/bottle service djs) but if you have to bang it out to the same crowd every week for years, you're gonna have to change or risk getting the place tagged with the label, 'the dj plays the same stuff every week'.

the thing about records, is the comparison just isnt the same. the music isnt the same, the crowds arent the same.

and shuffling thru 100-200 records still seems easier than scrolling thru songs on a cdj.

the other benefit is so many people are paying so little, if you have 10k extra songs and someone asks for a request for 5-10-20$ you can easily make an extra 10-50% per night depending on these requests. Playing what you want for pop crowds at average nights doesnt even make sense to me, because i dont see anyone wanting to hear really hi quality music, just disposable pop radio hits. which is fine, but not what i would prefer to play if i had too.

wait,,you get paid to play requests? never heard of that..

120 songs over 3 hours is not a lot.thats 3 minutes average a track..when you said you switch every 90 seconds ..i thought that was all you played tracks for.

over four hours i should say....

Unless it's something popular like "Teach Me How To Dougie", "The Wobble", "Dance (A$$)", or I'm playing warm-up songs, songs get a maximum of two minutes on air. 120 songs in four hours is 30 songs an hour, so that's an average of a song being played for two minutes before I transition to another one.

so do you guys play tracks even if you dont personally like them..as long as you are getting paid?

ok..yeah my maths a bit out..lol

Depending on the spot, you have to. You break even by playing songs you can't stand (anything Taylor Swift for me), with songs you like.

btw if I were actually playing 120 songs in three hours, that means I play 40 songs an hour (60 minutes in an hour, 40 songs per hour means 40/60 which reduces to 2/3, so I'd play a song roughly for 1 minute and 45 seconds), which is almost 1.5 minutes (on average; with 1.5 meaning I'd play a new song every 1 minute and 30 seconds) per song. There's no way in hell I'd keep up with that pace on CDJ's, especially since I look for songs via four different categories and only a maximum of TWO show up on the screens of a CDJ.

yeah thats a lot..how does the paying for request work..do they just come up and give you the money ..like a strip joint..lol...i dont know if that happens here i dont go mainstream places

yes, and now you have.



your math sucks



yes and no. if i have 20k tracks on my laptop, i can pick and choose what i want to play. So sometimes i might like a track that im not planning on playing, but it fits in the flow of what i want to play. if im playing 'shoop' and i' just wanna love you' and someone says i wanna hear, 'ride with me', its not hard to work in. if i dont want to play it and someone says heres a 20$ then why not.

stuff i dont like at pop/college/mainstream bar/private party gigs is really not a big thing to me, AND im there to entertain a crowd that likes that type of music and dances to it, thats fine.

If im trying to build a set of deep/classic/ house at a club of course, no amount of money is going to sway me to play meghan trainor. Or if i just dont like the song like the wobble or one of the many line/group dance songs, i dont play it. At the same time I have no problem with a dj playing any of those songs at the pop mainstream club.

if i go hear omar s at a warehouse party or dj pierre play at a strictly house club i expect to hear techno or acid house.

I don't get paid for requests but I know DJ's that ask for tips whenever someone hounds them for a request. I've had people tip me, and try to tip me, to play a song, but I won't accept it if I don't have the song. tbh I'm not a fan of it. I think it'd be a rip-off for people to tip me to hear a song I may or may not have, or have and will forget to play. I'd rather them just enjoy their night than try to bribe me.

ok..learn something new everyday..there is not a request culture in my circles be it radio or playing out..i'm sure it does happen sometimes though..i could just imagine asking for a tip to play something..the cussing would be heard on the moon..

I named mine "FEMALE TONIC" Playlist. 😆

All the songs there are color coded pink...mostly.

Pink? That's funny.

My White Girls Anthemz playlist is now 1135 songs strong. FINALLY got into DJ City..........must. download. EVERYTHING.

Is it me? Or, do PC batteries and are their non-magnetic connectors fail compared to mac? I've been using PC since I made the switch from vinyl. PC has worked for me (only Intel processors). But, I'm thinking of moving to Mac now.

Microsoft surface laptab is the only thing close to a magnetic power connector. But, it doesn't let you keep the screen up like a laptop.

Still using SL1. Considering a controller also....one step at a time.

I can't think of a PC that has the batter life of a Macbook Pro. The new XPS 15 from Dell comes close. Honestly though I don't see what's so great about the MagSafe connector on the Macbook. I almost never have an issue with people unplugging my laptops.

Honestly though I don't see what's so great about the MagSafe connector on the Macbook. I almost never have an issue with people unplugging my laptops.

1. It doesn't wear out like a traditional connector
2. It doesn't pull the computer with it when the power cable gets pulled (whether you unplug it, or someone else does) Almost never may be fine for you. But, I like never having the risk of my laptop falling on the ground because some jackass (including myself) yanked a cable.

I posted my review of the Razer Blade Stealth ultrabook in a separate thread, feel free to check it out if you have a few minutes. Sorry to those who were looking forward to the video review I said I would do, I only had time for a written review.

serato.com

to me it sounds like you were having a few driver problems. not surprised SDJ didn't like the 1440p screen. It's hard enough trying to read it with a 1080p one.

I bought a Mac, Nice and shiny! It works well I suppose however I have noticed issues that I never had when I used my PC and considering my PC was a crappy 200 dollar POS. That doesnt say much for the mac. Granted the Mac does run the video very well which is why I purchased it so can't really complain. I cant say the same for the PC which wouldn't run video at all. The real kicker is I have only used the video a handful of times lol Oh well nice to have the option. Everything loads much quicker and the screen is beautiful on the mac so I give it that. I also had a few bugs with the highlighted loops on my mac which never occurred on my PC. And for some odd reason itunes smart playlist is better on my pc then the mac.

The thing that pissed me off most is my crappy PC never once crashed mid set but my Mac has twice! Go figure >.< The PC would lag at times but never crashed and since it was a very old intel 2.0 ghz 4Gb of ram I expected some slow down.

It's alright which I felt more comfortable with the mac OS as everything feels backward and unnatural.. Keep wanting to go right when I need to go left to reach the X.. Don't fully understand why X doesn't always exit out of an app instead of just minimizing it. Keyboard shortcuts feel unnatural as well the ctrl button on a pc seems better placed then the command key on my apple. I can copy and paste very easily using my pc not so well on my mac which makes me feel like I am trying to do finger yoga. Granted this is probably due to using a PC for 80% of my life but all task seem quicker on my PC and just overall more friendly then my mac. I keep wanting to try using my mac for more then just spinning but every time I do I get frustrated and jump right back on my pc.

Which in someways is good I suppose since my mac really only contains my music and serato less likely to get some bug or just cluttered with nonsense.

Overall I am not disappointed per-say as I said I purchased it to be able to run video smoothly. More disappointed in myself for not using the one thing it seems to actually do better then then a pc.

Are there are Windows users here who would be willing to test a DJ software? Email djpullupsoftware@gmail.com