................and alienate the platform that they JUST overhauled? ENGINE!!

serato.com

LOL…I know BUT Engine was poorly implemented the first time. It does not work well with my 3900s. I don't know if inMusic(parent company of Denon) has the programing skills to make a updated STABLE, USABLE version. I certainly hope that the new Engine 1.5 will be successful since I plan on buying the MCx8000. At this point I do feel that Serato needs to do something very innovative. One possible solution is to bring back SSL as an embedded version in controllers. SSL isn't a CPU hog like Serato DJ and can run very efficient. A stable embedded Serato DJ/SSL controller with drive drive platters and LED touch screens would be a dream come true. There are many dis willing to pay $2000 for a pioneer sz. There are also many djs who would gladly pay $2000 for a standalone controller with Serato DJ/SSL embedded, direct drive motorized platters and touch screens.

im sure peeps would pay $2000 for this controller but would a developer be able to take say an sz and ADD screens then ADD direct drive motors (and maintain quality standards) yet still charge the same $2000? Seems a bit of a reach, no?

Perhaps it's a reach but Numark has done it with their ns7III. Maybe a compromise with 7inch direct drive platters(instead of 9inch), one centrally located 7inch LED touch screen(like Pioneer's Rekordbox)- could keep it at the $2000 price point. It would have to be the superior Denon or Rane built quality though. I think IF Denon's MCx8000 is a success (it will be as long as Engine 1.5 & Serato DJ are stable) then the future will have software embedded controllers with touch screens and YES maybe even direct drive platters. Well at least I can hope for one in the near future!

You can but every penny you have ever earned on the fact these units will exist in prototype form in R&D departments all over the DJ industry. When will we get to see them? After they've refined and tweaked them for years and waited for the component prices to drop and miniaturise further, then we'll see what they have been cooking up all these years.

It can be done currently as the technology is there. Putting a laptop inside a controller isn't the hard task it once was. With internals fitting inside Windows Surface Pro style slates then they could be embedded into foldable screens or squished into boxes as big as the Numark Dashboard screen extensions. Raspberry Pi and the Intel Edision can run Windows 10 on something as big as a matchbox. It's all possible.

Are we ready for it though? That's the big question. It's about the baby steps and natural progression. We are now seeing a new breed of controller with USB built in as opposed to a dumb box that needs a laptop to get any sound out of it... and all for little more than we was paying previously.
We are in that 'next step' stage where controllers can be untethered from our computers. How close are we to having a version of Serato DJ that actually runs inside a controller? I think if a DJ app on iOS or Android can do much of what Serato DJ can do currently then we aren't that far away. The processing power inside a tablet or phone is getting good and fast. Numark already made a controller a few years back (iDJ Pro) you can slip an iPad in and offload the computing tasks to something you already own. If Serato Remote gets more powerful like, say Djay, then we've got a winner on our hands if they can be plugged into the top of, say the new Pioneer DJM-NXS2 like the RMX app can be.

You can bet Numark and even Pioneer have test benches with gear running full software on them. As product development takes years from inception to end-user, expect to see what the engineers are playing with now in a few years time at NAMM. The closest we have seen publicly is the Numark concept device:

djworx.com

djtechtools.com

Maybe the Pioneer T1 tour units had Rekordbox embedded on them at NAMM, but it was hard to tell.

Price point is something that has to be considered. Adding a £30 Raspberry Pi and a copy of Win 10 with a HDMI output for video to a controller would add probably around £100 in parts (cost price) but that would cannibalise sales of their other range so they would need to go bigger on price... I think it would add £800 to the price of a controller once released at street value, maybe more. Would we pay it? Many would but many DJs have laptops already. Well you'd not need a laptop that's for sure and the version of the operating system that is used (whether Win 10 or Linux) would be stripped out and optimised better than any 'off the shelf' laptop. Updates could come from the manufacturer for the OS and Serato for the application.

I'm gonna bet even Serato has dabbled in their R&D labs with an embedded system both in-house and with a partner. We'll see it all once the USB media playback is mainstream and on most high end controllers as the embedded OS is the next step after.

Again I am pretty sure RBDJ has successfully shown Pioneers direction. Will we see embedded software hardware? Sure we will. I don't think they will be the magnitude predicted above and I ABSOLUTELY do not see them succeeding anymore than the past Pioneer all-in-one's.

Don't really have much else to say about this but did want to comment on one area that Remote is nothing like Djay. Djay is a full fledged DJ app (on mobile and Mac) while Remote is as it sounds a remote or sub controller for Serato.

Totally. I missed a bit out of that that should have been there. Where I said "If Serato Remote gets more powerful like, say Djay" I should have said 'morphed into something like DJ' (although getting more powerfully could arguably be getting advanced or morphing). I knew what I meant in my head and it didn't convey. Haha!

My bad. I'm terrible at proofreading lol.

I think every top manufacturer will have an embedded device at some point, just one and will sit at the top of their product tree. Pio, Numark, Denon. I just don't think we'd be ready for it as consumers yet as the price would be too high.

If the Pio Tour series really do run Rekordbox DJ internally then we've seen the first software embedded players capable of running actual software and not a firmware like all the other CDJs currently. That's Pio that's shown their cards... Numark next and I don't want to see a render like the last one was. It was two years ago since that Numark NS7II render and I can imagine the only thing holding them back from actually making it is waiting for the public to actually want it!

I just don't think we are quite ready just yet but a few years time we will be.

If I can remove the laptop from a working environment then I'd do it in a heartbeat... I just don't want to be paying the price of an actual laptop inside the unit as I may as well just use a laptop.

That is all I am saying. It is not that this wouldn't be possible nor would it be effective I am just saying it won't be at the price point people would generally think. Point in case if you take the sz and add screens and a processor (basically an entire computer) just think of how much that adds to the overall price. Now imagine moving platters (although obviously most people would not want this) as well. I highly doubt pioneer would ever release a unit with moving platters but maybe numark would or denon which would bring the price down considerably but I still think the price is not what numark/denon customers are willing to pay. After all many times the price alone is what attracted them to the brands in the first place.

I have hopes for this as well just to fire things up if nothing else. I am not certain I would jump on myself as I like to have my laptops and all but who knows.

By building a micro computer inside the NS7II screens, or Dashboard that can run it wouldn't be too hard.

Make the screens touchscreen with a software keyboard and build something like this into it: hothardware.com

The cheaper Atom sticks: www.alza.co.uk

Or give us the option to add it ourselves into an expansion port? "Compatible with Intel Compute stick" just as an example but I know this wouldn't happen as they can't factor in the premium price.

Either way it will come one day. I'd love to dabble myself but would need a stick to meet the minimum requirements of Serato as the cheap sticks use the Atom processor. The new Core M devices seem a bit too expensive at $300 w/o Win 10.

There's also the Intel NUC, the Asus VivoPC www.ebuyer.com or the Gigabyte Brix. All are underpowered currently but I don't think it's long before we get them up to speed but they are getting bigger footprints.

I imagine that a product like Denon's MCx8000 is being used to 'test the waters' so to speak. If successful, the flood gates will open.There is no doubt that we will see Serato DJ embedded controllers in the future. I just hope it's sooner rather than later. I'm usually not an early adopter of products but the MCx8000 will be the exception. I use mostly Rane and Denon in my mobile dj business so this controller will fit my needs nicely.

I wouldn't say test the waters as such but more a natural progression.

They need to give us more in out controllers and it's a way of adding value to a product. Adding USB media playback isn't an expensive thing but makes it more desirable. Had there been no screens or USB media on this I think it wouldn't have had as much of the the positive buzz it's currently getting. It would have just been seen as an SX clone.

It's the additions that's made people take note as we always want better in new gear. I just don't know where they could have gone without adding what they have.

Interestingly there's also a comment on the new Gemini seem to also be calling for true standalone djworx.com

I think Serato could modify a special version to drop into these devices. It's a trend that's not going away.

I personally left the Windows platform years ago for serato. You yourself are about to find out shat all the fuss is about. I will not condem Windows or its users in any way but trust I anticipate your feedback already.

That being said I am not sure how smaller under spec'd Windows devises will do. Linux based sure but not Windows. Unless we are talking of other software other than serato. Having that freedom already I can say it wouldn't be enough for me to switch even if I was looking to limit myself to one device ........ With all my expansions and or licensees among other elements tied to it.

I disagree. If Gemini was a trend setter I may be inclined to agree but most know Gemini is a trend follower and even copycat borderline copyright infringer (lol btw) developer who tends to be too late to the party every time. With pioneer being the most recognized trend setter (just saying like it is) is say their leaning away from the standalone players (the tour series cdj's obviously not counting here lol) this is sign enough. The future will tell all though. I am happy either way.

That's true... I will be pretty soon! I'll be going over to the dark side.

The windows Embedded devices would possibly be on a non-interface facing OS so you'll never know it's actually running Windows (like cash machines etc). They'd boot straight into Serato with minimal drivers loaded. They be no conflicting problems as they'd be inside only one type of unit so will be optimised for that device.
It could even be a Linux OS as I was just using Win as it's got a version of Serato running on it. I know this Stanton all in one unit I have has Linux in it and takes 20-odd seconds to boot up into its own software.

Pio generally set the trend as they are the most commonly found in clubs and desired by aspiring DJs as they see their hero's play on them but they can skew the market with a domineering position which can stifle competition. One company deciding what's good for the whole DJ community the world over is a dangerous thing and even if they don't want this, it will happen through brand perception.

Gemini is a trend follower and just copies other people's products... However... The theme of standalone rears it's head again. That's Pioneer DJ, Denon, Gemini that's got a standalone media player inside a controller and im gonna say an updated NV will probably be next for Numark and these are great for mobile DJs or DJs that do the beach gigs etc. They aren't comparable to the high end media players as sometimes they just aren't viable. Travelling to to beach gigs in Europe (which I will be doing in a few months) will be perfect with a USB controller like these and with the Denon MCX8000 that reads Serato cue points I'm looking forward to it making my life easier! If I go back on ships again these will be a god send.

It's the start of a trend and Pioneer helped it or "set" it with the whole Rekordbox thing and think embedded is only a few years away. Pioneer didn't create the Rekordbox idea of music management but they made it popular as they set the trend by including it on the industry standard players. It was kinda forced upon us with the CDJ 900/2000 and we adopted it. Had Denon become the market leader we'd all be using their ghastly Denon Music Manager that I used to have with the DN-HD2500 that pre-dates Rekordbox.

I'm bumping this. This NEEDS to happen…

IMHO, Serato should resurrect SSL in an embedded format…… coming soon the "Lazarus", a SSL embedded controller!! : )

Hey, it's me again. 2019 is here. Now is the time for that announcement guys! Have some "secret" talks with Technics, Roland, Reloop, or anyone of your many hardware partners. I'm sure at least one of your hardware partners is brave enough to work with you on such an innovative project.

Lets make that Serato DJ Pro embedded mixer and/or media deck a reality by 2020 at the latest!!!!

As always, thanks for listening!

Respectfully,
-Chino

You are forgetting one very important fact. Nobody wants an embedded standalone solution such as this. They only think they do. Just like the Spinning platters that many claimed "If Denon, or Pioneer made I would buy right away" (which the clearly did not LOL) failed this would too. It is too much money and time to be lost just to have no measurable gain in the end. This will go on for years (I mean this thread has gone on for three already LOL) but I think it is clear the big names in the industry are able to read between the lines here. Wasn't Q-bert's embedded mixer coming out 2 years ago btw? LOL

Are you absolutely sure about that? Pioneer, Denon & even Gemini all have released stand alone solutions. IMHO, its only a matter of time before Serato and one of their hardware partners decide to join forces & release one.

Sure about it....... no. Just remember at the end of the day this is just another computer with another OS based on other SW that is not added to the mess. A computer that is not user serviceable (for now) and most importantly where are you getting the music? Right back to the old computer. All the Major SW companies are coming out with streaming functions, guess what won't have this (again for now)? and lastly and most importantly is you get what you get with these all-in-ones. If ANYTHING breaks the whole things is broken. If you want to add ANYTHING you are SOL. I am not going to sit here and say there is no market at all for them nor will they sell but I will say they are entry level at best as any given DJ will outgrow it quick.

Lastly (and here is the big one).................. I like Rekordbox DJ, Serato AND Traktor with Ableton on the side.............. which all in one would be the solution for me?

FTR I can mention a few controllers, mixers & media players that can be used with all of the major players and more..