BleedR,

Rekordbox is a very popular option, you are certainly right there.
If you are an EDM dj or someone who is performing on CDJ's (also very popular) then its a great solution
Especially if you are not fond of having your computer on hand.

However, there are lots of advantages to those using a laptop that Rekordbox doesn't offer.
Recording, Video, Library searching, Cue points etc

Understanding both platforms for different circumstances is key.
If you are a DVS/Vinyl DJ Rekordbox is still not really an option.

Ultimately there are a bunch of pro's and cons to both and I see no reason to exclude either one from your situation :)

I hope that if you are having any trouble with the software you have reached out to us about any of these things

"stable, no dropouts, no bugs! "

Matt P

Hi Matt P,
I agree, for me personal, I use serato Dj the bata 1.7.4 and I have to say so far no problem at all, no drop out , no restart in computer , I have used it playing for four to five hours, I love it you guys are really trying to make it the best software ever, you guys have my support, keep up the good job. When you get to 1.9 I think all of them will have a difference story.
Thanks to the team Of Serato .

Matt atm I've still two open tickets, for bugs. I'm encountering small other bugs very often, which honestly I don't report anymore as most of this is getting ignored by you or it takes months to be fixed, so I don't care for those that don't affect me directly...
I'm losing faith! Problems with the SL4, problems with the VCI 380.

Anyway, I don't see why I can't do the same stuff with CDJs as with Vinyl.
I'm not going to ITF or DMC, so the CDJs do it pretty much for scratching..
Recordbox does offer CUE points, so far as I know.
I own a SL1 too, so because of that I have a recording device, from back in the day ;)

Btw most of my colleagues are afraid of Recording with SSL (no one wants to use SDJ anyway) because it might crash the pc or screw the performance. Actually I'm the only one using the integrated recording feature!

I did video with Serato too, but to be honest, customers were bored, and a VJ makes a much greater performance then just DJing with Videos...
The only plus I see is the Library, but anyway I prepare most of the sets, have playlists with a few hundred tracks that I play most songs out of them, so it's a nice have, but not a must - if I would choose between stability and library!

Sorry guys, I supported you from day one, but I think it's time to move on, before the ship is sunk

The ship is not sinking. You just found another boat that you feel will work for you better.

Don't get me wrong...
I like Rekorbox too. That's why I spent $,$$$ to have my own SRT/2000NXS/RMX1000. But for features and performance wise, SDJ works for me better.

If the club (or an event) I am to play with has CDJ/DJM set up (Rekordbox Equpped) I have my SD cards and Ipad ready in my backpack.

But if want to put a better performance, I would rather set up my laptop and an SP1.

Of course, that's my prrsonal opinion.

:)

Hit me with your ticket numbers man. i'll see if I can help out there.



I think this may just be the case for you.

Serato isn't going anywhere,
I don't think it has to be so black and white.. one or the other. Rather, "different strokes for different folks" :)

I have Rekordbox and enjoy its convenience, use it for changeovers or setup and such.

If you have a supported mixer or interface/controller, you can still always use Serato... for free too (hardware dependent of course).

Matt P

Aaawww, kids say the darnedest things but give the guy a break ,he's still young and easily impressed by new shiny things....lol

I'm 32 And am DJing in Clubs for 12 years dude ;)

Matt,
Support Requests:
78899
78517

Hey Matt, what about the idea of making a Serato "embedded" DJ version ???
I think you can compete Recordbox with your new friend Denon (which makes certified soundcard now) !!! This simple version will just manage serato playlists, tracks infos (cues, loops...etc) and waveforms ?
I have to admit that bringing just a usb key and focus on the decks instead of the whole decks+mixer+laptop is less cumbersome !
Or even make a (purchasable) plugin to export serato playlists into recordbox playlist could be useful...

Hi BleedR,

it looks like 78517 has been closed up as it was related to the Limiter and I've dropped Kane a line about the SL4 issue with SSL and SDJ on the two computers.
My rule of thumb is when using the SL4 its just easier to use both computers on the same software platform. As you know the routing is a little different from SSL - SDJ so its just less of a headache for me that way.

Regards

Matt P

Hi Matt,

The Limiter Issue is a LONG story. I'm trying for more than 4! months to explain to you guys that there is a software issue... Your answers were ridiculous, from changing chinch! cable to not giving any solution but trying another laptop! So finally I can prove it's SDJ fault and I don't get a confirmation that it is a software issue? I don't get an answer that it is the limiter and you can confirm that and add it to the bugs that need so be fixed? Really?
So for me it's not closed. I want a statement so I know what to expect.
Bug recognized? Bug gonna be fixed?

The SL4 issue can't be fixed by using the same software. As already mentioned NO ONE except me uses SDJ. All my colleagues dropped it form the start because of poor performance and stability. I'm the only one using SDJ because of FLIP actually, so I don't have an option to switch back to SSL, else I would do it.

Greetings!

Matt what happened?

While record box and USB had its pros. As a hiphop and open format Dj it is quite hard for us to keep everything on a stick. I play to the crowd, which means sometimes I dig deep. Typically record box and a USB stick is good for a pre-planned set, I can't see myself using it.

Back then when playing with Vinyl, how many cases did you have with you? I had 5, inside I had about 250-300 vinyls, sorted. Don't you think that this isn't that bad for a USB?
I can't remember somebody wishing for something that I didn't had with me and that I would generally play.
With an USB it's just like preparing your vinyls for the night, in my opinion ;)

But we shouldn't be limited. That's one of the benefits of being able to carry around mad amounts of music.

Regarding your tickets?

They should be followed up by their respective agents. If you need me to go back in there and help. I can.
The limiter issue may be something that we can research further, but as stated in the thread is not reproducible. So until we can get a similar result i'm not sure there is much we can do.

Have you made a video? if so, please post that in the thread for us to help understand the problem so we can fix it.

Matt P

Since people are comparing the two products on here. I must say that something Serato should learn from Rekordbox is better interactivity between devices.

As someone who likes to sort and prepare his music on a desktop environment, and then take his music out either on pen drive or laptop, I find Seratos functionality lacking compared to Rekordbox.

Rekordbox not only allows for me to copy my library on to an external drive, but will keep it synced with my external drive. I go play a set and make some new cues in the process, or maybe update a genre tag? My collection on my home PC gets an update when I get home and plug in again.

Meanwhile my experience on Serato has been that there is no syncronity after transfer. I can copy a crate onto my pendrive (in an inefficient and redundant manner). But this is a straight cut copy, where Serato acknoledges no connection between the track n my drive, and the track on my PC; I'll have two copies of the same track, if I look in my overarching Serato library.

What can I do to update my collection on library at home if I've gone out, played a set, having made some new cues, or tag changes, so that my music's data stays consistent across my devices?

It would be nice if when adding tracks to Serato they were automatically copied somewhere and managed by Serato, like iTunes does. I'm so over organising my music into folders by hand, and remembering not to move them or delete them.

You could use a program like carbon copy cloner to transfer back and forth. Cues and loops are saved to the track's id tag if using mp3, so changes will be updated to the last version of your file.

Wouldnt mind a better import/export/libaync/rescan feature though. But I expect its a big job for any developer.

This weird USB options were never a concept of Serato and will never be!
Nor will Sync be!

@WarpNote: I get it, but that seems archaic. When I back up my Serato DB I want to back up everything, including my music. It's super fragile to let me go and screw with that. Sure it's effort, but it saves on user error. And that should be key to any software.

I actually prefer to manage my music personally. Allowing apps, programs, algorithms, etc to manage your files allows room for error from what you really want sometimes. Perfect example: The "new" cue point feature in Mixed In Key. LOL!!

However, I would LOVE to see automatic updates of new files in crates that have been added to your folders (i.e. - having the crates watch your folders on the smart end. no keywords necessary though).

This is some good feedback guys.

Syncing between drives is something that would definitely help out with organization.

Also syncing with folders is still something we can improve on.

Matt P

Hey Matt P

Why not sync up to a microsoft onedrive or google drive so changes made on one computer say a desktop is reflected on the laptop. Ie crates and the crates contents. That would be cool.

The storage for the files in the cloud would be insane. You'd have to pay a sizable monthly fee. I don't need that. I can manually back it up myself. I just want Serato to intelligently manage my library.

A lot of the issues I have come from using my iTunes library. It seems touch and go as to whether beat grids or cue points are saved accurately. It would be nice to output a crate to a folder (or USB stick) for use with other machines, systems etc. like if I were playing somewhere that didn't have a Serato setup.

Microsoft offer 1terabyte of data 1000 gigs on onedrive with an office 365 subscription.

I have 200 gigs of music up in the cloud no problem and I can set cue points on a track on my laptop and they appear on my desktop. The only problem is the crates. They get messed up.

How much is the subscription? I have no interest in office but 1TB in the cloud sounds good.

checkout www.office365.com and home premium version. You get word excel access onenote and outlook plus onedrive with automatic 1 tb. about 70 english pounds per year.

Not bad at all

I think dropbox also offer good 1tb deals...

Im with poproxxx, much prefer manual origanizing my files. Also not so happy with iTunes in general. I think the serato crate system is much more robust, and easier to transfer between drives/computers. Transferring an iTunes lib to a new computer proved very troublesome, at least for me...

Transferring an iTunes library is a matter of copying a file. :/

Anyway. I'm very happy for you to manually organize your files. But I have 500GB of music and other stuff to do! It should be an option.

Far from it, have you ever tried to transfer an enitre iTunes library from one computer to another backup machine? For me it resulted in a huge mess of lost file references for iTunes, total nightmare.

I've got about 49.000 songs in my serato lib, all sorted manually. First off, sdj/ssl will run ALOT smoother without an extensive iTunes lib file loaded, serato crates are way more cpu/memory efficient in serato software. I ALSO have a main raid drive with my record collection, about 10-11 TB! of files, again sorted MANUALLY. In essense no more work than sorting in iTunes, and a lot more future proof. ITunes cannot handle such large databases anyway, at least not using a top specced iMac, not tried the black pro paperbin machine yet, but I highly doubt iTunes is scalable to such sizes.

On another note, been messing with rekordbox this weekend. Rented a pair of cdj2000nxs players, mainly to get more familiar with HID, as more of my clubs are getting these players now. But once I had it set up, I had to try out the RB workflow too. For club sets, where the music might be relatively planned out, (tempo/genres) RB is a good option IMO, but searching aint fun, so playlists are key. For a mobile event or any open format gig, I wouldnt even consider RB. HID+ClubKit seems to be the way forward, for my venues at least...

The browse function using a usb stick is quite efficient, quick and snappy. I wish the player screen update could be similar when using HID, for sdj browsing its very laggy, bordeline unusable, found myself always looking to the computer screen, as the player screen during sdj browse felt like something from previous decades :(

Jogs in HID are very nice though, just wished the led sticker would line up to software. Been told by serato that the sticker spec for a cdj is very different than a sdj. It spinns at a slightly different tempo, starts at 4 o'clock and dont reset position at cue-points like sdj. This behaviour is apparently out of seratos hands, been specced by pio, and therefore very hard to change.. For pioneer's next generation of players, I think they should work very long and hard to make the players work smoothly and efficient with any software, and mirror the cdj to the software behavior, not the other way around, like currently...

I have WAY more than 500GB and still prefer manual sorting. But to each their own ;)

You guys must have way more time than me! I don't care where the files are on disk as long as it is robust, and the tagging is accurate.

Got 950 GB worth of music and I guarantee I would NEVER be able to find more than 80% of it if I did not personally organize it myself. I don't think it has anything to do with having more time. I think it has a lot to do with being able to effectively manage time. I have a full time job as a union carpenter (with plenty of overtime), just purchased my first home last July, got married in October, Had my first kid last Thursday, etc. yet I still find 2-4 hrs. a day to edit and organize my music.

As far as having Serato DJ auto import whatever you download etc. this has been possible for quite some time.................... serato.com

BTW I am NOT against tools or software helping along the way for editing or organizing........... not by a long shot. I am just willing to admit that NO software or tool is able to organize as well as I am myself. I am always looking for new ways to get things done but they MUST be done to my standards. In the end this is all about standards and it is really that simple. When I see other DJ's libraries and you see red letters, corrupt symbols, horrible tagging, crates called "NYE 2012 bangers" or "Billy's BBQ bash" www.djscratchnsniff.com, and so on staring at me it makes me cringe................. again standards.

I agree. Rekordbox is great for the guys doing planned sets. I have done maybe two planned sets in my 17 years of DJing though. An excellent backup I agree. Rekordbox as in CDJ/XDJ and flash drive is as stable as can be yet how could it not be. It is about as minimal as it gets. Not knocking it as it certainly works.................. I just prefer Serato DJ over all my other options and I certainly keep my options open.

It all boils down to "how dedicated to the craft are you?"........

I'm like Dave, full time job (Iron worker), just bought the 2nd house 3 years ago and I have 5 kids.

There are nights when I seriously sit there and ask myself if I'm gonna sleep or work on music and practice. I can not tell you how many sleepless nights I've had over the last 9 years of playing out live.

Not sure where I was going with this but yeah I do it all myself as well.

A day? And that doesn't strike you as being something that could be better automated? Wouldn't you like to have that time back???

I leave the house at 7am and get home at 8pm. And then I have to like - do laundry, and paperwork, and maybe eat, and then go to sleep. I just don't have 2-4 hours a day to spend moving files around an arbitrary folder structure when data for those files already exists in a tagging mechanism. I guess, yes, I could stay up and do it. But I don't enjoy that, and I don't think it's good for my health or my life to have sleepless nights.

I admire you all and your dedication to the craft. Genuinely. I do this for fun - I wish I were good enough to play out every night, but I'm not. I'm still a paying customer, I play lots of house parties and online, and I really, really enjoy playing. I don't really, really enjoy moving files around.

I'm not saying you should lose your ability to manually sort your library, or that an automated solution would be better for you. I'm sure your methodology would be really difficult or impossible to emulate in software. But I personally would like the software to sort it on my behalf (with me modifying the tags, and the folder structured inferred from that) and to have the ability to consolidate my library into a single folder for easy backing up and transfer. And the ability to consolidate a single crate into a folder for RecordBox or transfer to another laptop. Maybe I'm in the minority? I'm surprised if so.

If Serato could do this in a way that would satisfy your requirements, and you could spend 2-4 hours a day practising instead, wouldn't that be a worthwhile thing to pursue?

Well for me in the beginning it was 2-4 hours until I got my library straightened out now I'll spend anywhere from 10 minutes to an hour a couple of times a week fixing tags and sorting. It's something that if I let go I'll be back to the hours fixing and and sorting.

After you figure out a method that works for you things will click and time will fly.....

I use GoodSync to sync my _Serato_ folders, my iTunes folder structure and my Traktor folder structure from my prep PC to a hard drive, then sync it to my laptops. After the gig I do the reverse, but only sync back the main laptop (not the backup)

Keep the same folder names and disk letters on the laptops and it works like a dream. Been working like that for three years and never had a glitch

Mike

To Mike Butler

But how do you get the crates and the contents of the crates to sync up. I just cant get the crates to sync from desktop to laptop via Microsoft onedrive. They get messed up.

It just works ... not helpful I know!!

First thing is to make sure that the files go in the right place. You have to copy the entire contents of the _Serato_ folder from the MyMusic folder on the main PC to the laptop MyMusic folder. Then copy all the music, making sure it ends up in the same name disk. For example, my music is on the E: drive on both systems. Copy the music to the same path on the laptop. The last thing is to copy the _Serato_ folder from the disk containing your music (E:\_Serato_ in my case). If you don't do this you'll lose all the crates. You only need to do that if your music isn't on C:

I don't personally use OneDrive as my upload speed is hopeless, but syncing everything via a portable drive works ok

Mike

Is there an equivalent process for mac?

So you want Serato crates to mimic your folders?

No idea on mac sorry, but I'd guess it's similar

Mike

alchimiedj.com why not just go with this? Again not for me as things like these tend to lead to bigger problems than lack of time.

Yes and no. One look at my library would speak for all the time spent. Not even trying to insult you I promise it is just that the library aspect is super important to me. I make it a point for things to make sense whether looking for a tune from 50 years ago or something released yesterday. Any genre/sub-genre, any artist, etc. All tags as good as can be. No extra garbage linked to the tags or embedded, etc.

Most stupid and useless feature in any software I use.
Not even one cuepoint gets to the point where I'd place it and I didn't see any option to deactivate this feature in MIK yet.

There is. Just turn off the update tags feature and it will still write key (and energy if you wish) but not set the cue points.

Yep, what Dave said.
Under Personalize tab > Export Cue Points: Turn off all check boxes...

+10! :-D

Laggyness was solved in my setup after the 1.7.2 update. (Elitebook 8540p, core i7, 8GB Ram, 2x USB2.0 connected and 2x USB 2.0 devices connected to USB 3.0 ports)

@deejdave & WarpNote:
Thanks for pointing me in the right direction guys!
Somehow overlooked or forgot about it.
Saves a lot of time for me from now on.

I'm referring to lagginess on the player screen, not the computer screen. Running 1.7.3 and 1.7.4 with OSX 10.10.3, macbook pro15" retina, core i7, 16GB ram.... I highly doubt there is a difference between windows and osx in this instance. If anyone have both platforms and a set of cdj2000nxs, I'd be happy to hear their comparisons.

Sure thing BBN :)

I never upgraded from 6, as I saw no updates to the actual key detection features. So there was no need for me to pay for un-needed garbage (IMO) that I wouldn't use

Upgrade from 6 to 7 was free for me...
Also I've actually seen som tracks "change" key after the upgrade...

I do remember seeing Chad (MIK Moderator) post that there were positive changes to the accuracy of MIK from 7.0's release.

I must have missed these. Hmmmmm ......

No biggie. MIK is something like 95% accurate if I remember correctly anyways and it will NEVER be 100% so what's the real difference anyways right?

Best of both worlds solution: Serato in HID mode. Of course, it would be a lot easier to bring SDJ into the booth if we could just use two USB cables into the CDJs, you know, like Traktor, Mixvibes, and now djay Pro.

I believe that number to be more like 70-75%, and yeah not ever expecting any key algorythm getting near 100%.

MIK 6.0 is 95% let alone any improvements that have been made. This is by far the most diverse and unbiased test I have seen to date. www.djtechtools.com by techtools

Even back in 2010 (MIK 4.0 even) scored at 86% in other tests. blog.dubspot.com by dubspot

The only numbers I have seen like that were from Keyfinder's creator which I pretty much read between the lines there LOL. I would expect dubspot and djtechtools to be a little more unbiased than one of the people who have something to gain from these numbers.

Who is to say what is what though. I myself find MIK to be much more accurate than KF at numbers higher than any of these reports state.

Out of curiosity where did you get your numbers from? I'd be keen to see how some of the other apps scored.

Thanks for linking to those tests Dave. Generally I'm a little sceptic of djtt as they are a store, and very outspoke software preferences (traktor & ableton). I've read tests and news posts where they got the facts wrong more than once. Also, it would surprise me if not both djtt and dubspot is not sponsored by mik. I'm not sure where I read the comparison that said mik, and most other key analyzers, only reached about 70-80% accuracy. Its a few years back, it was either a test or a forum post somewhere. I also suspect accuracy will be different for different selections of tracks. I'd be more convinced if the test track pool were a few 1000s, all from different genres and decades.

All that said though, as a user of mik myself, Im glad to see it in the lead.

I realise it's a late response but no worries, we're talking about the same. Lagginess in the player. In a nasty way it's good to hear that it is not just Windows users that get in trouble with audio and music software. I've often felt second rate trying to get the stuff workin on a microsoft machine. Allen & Heath, Serato, Ableton, Pioneer, all trying to get me on a mac so I don't have too much trouble. And to stay on-topic: forcing iTunes hell on Microsoft users.

I use mediamonkey to manage my library. A open source plug in creates an iTunes XML and record box finally reads it in v3.2.0. So happy about that but since I bought my CDJ's at v3.0, I decided to back to Serato and forward to DJ instead of SSL.

I have never played live with Serato DJ yet. Unfortunately Serato does NOT read the iTunes XML, is hell to convert and export the Mediamonkey playlists to and my Xone:K2 (A&H) will not be stable in use with 2 CDJ's and a rane connected. Buying a powered hub unfortunately did not solve my problem.

I'd have to add to the latter that my Elitebook caused less trouble on the USB but I spent a lot of extra money for something that did NOT provide me with a better library on stage and would be so much more smooth if it was written for x64 bandwith I'm sure.

Not a carpenter+DJ, but unfortunately (ignorance can be bliss) an IT guy. I stopped posting my troubles or trying to get support on all platforms. I'll wait for the future. Rekordbox proved it was worth the waiting. Surely Serato will follow.

(And with a little luck next year Allen & Heath will have a USB2 to -3 driver stable on W10. So sorry they had more than a year to get it to work on W10 and yet they now 'advise' not to upgrade. One more year and I'll send them the bill for having to buy a payed version)

Did I forget to mention the hard- and software vendors pointing the fingers at eachother and OS provider dispite their marketing campaigns selling the great new features options and possibilities? Though I'm a digital guy enjoying the optional sound FXs (when properly used), I do miss the simple yes or no you get from turntables and vinyl.

And my advise to the techies at Serato, Pioneer, Allen & Heath and other marketing-wise compatible providers. Start picking up the phone and call eathother instead of awaiting the next managers meetings. Your clients are in need of your skills, not your managers skills.