Serato DJ General Discussion

Talk about Serato DJ, expansion packs and supported hardware

AMX Innofader cut in time

DJ Kid Stretch 9:13 PM - 20 November, 2014
Got the Akai AMX a week ago, I love it.
The only thing that's bothering me is the cut in time of the Innofader.
There is a small gap before it opens, unlike my Rane 62.
Is there any mod that i can shorten this gap and make it open instantly?
Thanks!
JonnySimps 12:57 PM - 6 January, 2015
I have the same issue - took delivery of an AMX a couple of weeks ago and the fader was bleeding badly, got a replacement AMX from the retailer and this has a very bad cut in compared with my Rane. I've seen that they can be recalibrated but I'm worried this might make the problem worse - can anyone help?
LargeFarva 8:01 PM - 6 January, 2015
www.innofader.com

You need to remove the fader and recalibrate it to eliminate bleed through. If you want tighter cut in, you need to set the cut out point even further by pushing the fader when setting the cut out point. If you do too much, you'll get bleed through.

For me, I cut in normal, right hand so I'd push the fader closed (right) when I calibrate that cut out point to get a tighter cut.
JonnySimps 8:13 PM - 6 January, 2015
Thanks, yes I recalibrated it earlier and have a slightly better cut-in, but the cut out is at a slightly different place. I've done this twice and its got slightly better each time.

What I may do is take the black top-plate of the fader off to push the fader as close to the edge as possible to make the cut-in right at the edge... what do you think about this?
I'm assuming if I start getting bleed I can just recalibrate again?

I'm also going to switch the knob for the one from my Rane so it feels more similar...
LargeFarva 8:24 PM - 6 January, 2015
The cut in and out points are going to be set based on you calibrate the end points to be. If you wish to reduce the cut in, getting the fader closer to the lag point will achieve this, as long as the fader will stay there with the cap on, other the sound will bleed through.

I like a small amount of lag and cut-in for things like chirps and 1 clicks just because I'm used to the feel of less precise faders.
italia 2:48 AM - 21 May, 2015
I can't crab scratch at all with this unit. It does not respond fast enough. What is going on
DJ Tecniq 7:28 AM - 21 May, 2015
Be careful how you calibrate the innofader. I have the mini innofader pnp in my djm 700 and still can't get it to calibrate how a normal scratch fader should. It is not the easiest there's tons of settings for the fader. When I put the fader in the middle and crossfade to one side the sound gets noticeably higher in volume. Believe me it's tuff to get it just right. I wish there was a default setting for just left and right cut in. The worst is when you get the curve setting. If you reach that setting your mixes will sound like shit lol.
Logisticalstyles 12:48 PM - 21 May, 2015
I'm not a big fan of the crossfader on the AMX. It's ok, but compared to a regular innofader it's definitely not the same feel.
italia 1:01 AM - 22 May, 2015
I don't know if it's the calibration or the hardware being all powered through the usb port but any high speed fader movements are just ignored like your not even using the fader. For normal kuts it's pretty good but if you try to crab with it... Seems like it can't process the rapid movements. Hopefully there is a fix for this issue in a software update
DJ Tecniq 9:49 AM - 22 May, 2015
Quote:
I don't know if it's the calibration or the hardware being all powered through the usb port but any high speed fader movements are just ignored like your not even using the fader. For normal kuts it's pretty good but if you try to crab with it... Seems like it can't process the rapid movements. Hopefully there is a fix for this issue in a software update
just curious what your buffer setting is? The lower the better response👍🏻
italia 3:20 PM - 22 May, 2015
I lowered the buffer all the way it made no difference in the fader
Ragman 5:57 PM - 22 May, 2015
Quote:
I'm not a big fan of the crossfader on the AMX. It's ok, but compared to a regular innofader it's definitely not the same feel.

Hence why it's cost $250.00. I don't think they had a performance mixer in mind when they created this controller. It definitely is useful in pinch and when you're cornered in a tight space.
Konfushez 7:54 AM - 25 May, 2015
You guys need to contact Elliot @ Innofader, he is quiet helpful
DJ Kid Stretch 8:14 PM - 29 May, 2015
Yes, Eliot is very helpful, too bad the fader didn't make it for me, sold the AMX! :(
nik39 9:51 AM - 1 June, 2015
What happens if I open the amx to calibrate the fader? Will that void the amxs warranty?
DJVertigo 7:57 PM - 1 June, 2015
I also feel the AMX can't quite keep up with fast techniques. It's at if there is a fast series of fades instead of cuts, and yes I've done all the calibrating possible. I wonder if there is anything that can be done in the SDJ software mixer?
The Return of Dj Sparky 8:29 PM - 1 June, 2015
Quote:
What happens if I open the amx to calibrate the fader? Will that void the amxs warranty?


well looking at a pic of it it has a detachable plate around the crossfader like a lot of mixers and opening that shouldn't void the warranty, but fully opening the unit probable would, thats if there is not any sort of security sticker so they might not even know it was opened unless then check the tension of the screws which could be debated if they pulled you up on that
nik39 10:06 PM - 1 June, 2015
Quote:
I also feel the AMX can't quite keep up with fast techniques.

Yeah, I have the same feeling. As if... crabs do not sound that sharp. I can't tell whether it's the crossfader curve, or whether it's the software itself. :(
kebzer 8:42 AM - 2 June, 2015
Guys, the same problems were noticed on the Z2 too, this is the reality of mini innofaders working together with software mixers. It's pretty simple, there is absolutely no internal mixer software available that can cope fast enough with advanced scratching. The reason is this: MIDI lag. Even at the lowest possible latency settings, there is still a default latency of around 8-10ms, caused by the entire chain of connected devices and interfaces. To give you an idea, even a grand piano (the one with the tail) has a natural latency of around 5ms between the key, the hammer and the string of each note. The same latency can be measured in any conventional scratch mixer, again 5ms.

But besides that, you must also account the amount of information transferred at this speed. If you click once on the fader, only one move has to be transferred at 8-10ms. But if you click 3 times (crab), then you have 3x the amount of information to be transferred, translated and played back. However, you might think that in this case time is measured just in milliseconds. True indeed, but your average turntablist can click more than 3 times within a second. That is still blistering fast for any digital interface.

I don't think the mini innofader or the AMX is a bad product. It's just not suitable for hardcore use. The same occured with Serato Video and the ol' 57. Crabbing the hell out of it won't work, at any settings.
nik39 8:52 AM - 2 June, 2015
Quote:
Guys, the same problems were noticed on the Z2 too, this is the reality of mini innofaders working together with software mixers. It's pretty simple, there is absolutely no internal mixer software available that can cope fast enough with advanced scratching. The reason is this: MIDI lag. Even at the lowest possible latency settings, there is still a default latency of around 8-10ms, caused by the entire chain of connected devices and interfaces. To give you an idea, even a grand piano (the one with the tail) has a natural latency of around 5ms between the key, the hammer and the string of each note. The same latency can be measured in any conventional scratch mixer, again 5ms.

But besides that, you must also account the amount of information transferred at this speed. If you click once on the fader, only one move has to be transferred at 8-10ms. But if you click 3 times (crab), then you have 3x the amount of information to be transferred, translated and played back. However, you might think that in this case time is measured just in milliseconds. True indeed, but your average turntablist can click more than 3 times within a second. That is still blistering fast for any digital interface.

I dont think that this is the case here.

If it was just the latency itself, you would hear/feel that the crabs would come in to late/delayed. But we're talking about some kind of smeared cuts/transients.

Also, I have a range of Serato Midi controllers and IIRC this is the first device exhibiting this issue, which kind of hints that it is not a problem of the midi implementation itself.
nik39 8:55 AM - 2 June, 2015
Quote:
The same occured with Serato Video and the ol' 57. Crabbing the hell out of it won't work, at any settings.

Well that's a totally different story because video processing happens at a different resolution that audio. On regular TV screens you only have 50/60fps. That's one frame each 20ms. Of course ultra short cuts can't be visible.

Also... the 57 does not use MIDI at all. It is using some kind of HID.
kebzer 10:21 AM - 2 June, 2015
Hey nik39, thanks for the clarification of the 57 protocol, didn't knew that.

As for the AMX, I thought everybody talked about the latency, not sound. If the sound output is also an issue, then I guess its the software part of the internal mixer, since I believe that no real audio is going through the AMX, only output.
italia 1:22 AM - 1 July, 2015
update for everyone having this issue. I installed vitural dj 8 just to test it out and the fader response has went up 100%. works perfect and can mimic a rane fader. it is sdj that is the issue with the fader. give it a shot you will see right away. hopefully serato can fix this issue!!
DJ Kid Stretch 6:08 AM - 1 July, 2015
whaaaa!???? unfortunately i sold it and cannot test it! :(
the lush 7:53 AM - 1 July, 2015
I'm gonna jinx myself now, but mines been performing ok on scratching. First thing I did when I got the AMX home was to pop the fader out & recalibrate the cut in/out to where I wanted it & it seems about right compared to my last mixer where I retro fitted a mini innofader. I do suffer with a dip in volume in the centre though when the curve is opened up so I've just installed the mini innofader PNP I had in my Vestax to see if that made any difference. It didn't, & that's been faultless on my other mixer. I'm guessing there's a software issue around the fader where it doesn't recognise centre if you recalibrate the cut in/out points for scratching?
LG-TUNE 8:38 PM - 7 November, 2017
I've experienced more or less the same problem and finally found a possibility to fix the issues on my own.

First of all, what is actually the problem with the innofader:
The Crossfader of my AMX for example is cutting in perfectly on the left side but on the right side the gap or "dead space" before it opens is just too big. The calibration didn't solve this.

Generally spoken the innofader of the AMX is a high quality solution when you keep its price in mind, since it's really smooth-running and quasi a low-price battle-fader.
Unfortunately there's an inaccuracy in the fabrication of the Innofader Mini models which sometimes may cause either a bleeding fader (can be solved by recalibrating) oder a too big dead space.

So what can be done if you don't want to buy a new fader:
1. Dismount the whole crossfader (AMX disconnected from the computer), remove the knob and unscrew the metal plate, disconnect the cable.
2. Open the crossfader on the face on both left and right side by gently bending up the clips of the metal shell. Pull out the plastic parts behind (holding fixture of the bars on whom the fader is slipping) and detach it from the metal bars. (be careful, the holding fixture on the right side is containing a little spring which has to be put in again afterwards)

3. Then you can put an additional spacer/distance piece on that bar which has already one on each side.
The distance piece you use should have at least the same size like the dead space of the fader.
Choose whatever has a hole/borehole in the right size and is applicable in matters of its material (rubber, plastic, washer etc.)
4. stick together the dismounted parts again and carefully bend down the clips
5. Connect the crossfader-cable and connect the AMX to your computer and check the solutions. If the crossfader does not close anymore you have to make a calibration to set the new cut-in-point.
6. Mount the whole fader again.

In my case the fader is cutting absolutely accurate now.

Why is this working?
Because the Fader drives against the extended spacers/distance pieces so that you reduce its range as the fader reaches the end on one side sufficiently early. Thus it can no more go as far into that dead space where the electronic system is seemingly no more registering the position of the fader.