Tracking.....

I bet it's gonna be a streaming service like VDJ has with VJPRO.........

I bet you're right....

streaming video? eh. not very confident with that (the service, not the possibility).

dawwww...totally why I clicked on the thread. =(

streaming video globally! except in the US. =P

Tracking

Nice

+1

Hopfully though it's not that. I'm hoping for something truly "revolutionary".

My hope, finally video wih multiple audio streams, so we can switch audio on the fly. So instantly jump between the clean and dirty edits or instrumentals and orginals well only needing to have one video file.

No that I'm asking for this but it could also be a new codec, for better GPU perfromance.

Smashvidz did something like that, around five years ago. It wasn't around for very long...may have been too complicated for most people.

I'd prefer a whitelable type video service.

A feature like that would take serato integration to catch on I would think. A button, toggle switch in serato would be awesome.

I kinda hope it's not some silly streaming service for video content. That's such a limited market, I could never use it, I dont trust anyones wifi in any club I work at.

I think what SV did (and keep in mind this was 5 years or more ago, I might be remembering details wrong) was package one video with multiple MP3 files, the idea being that the user would use the video-file association feature in Video-SL to play them back.

Streaming content...Might appeal to some, not me...

Actually, all of these ideas are great. Now that we are working with Serato we will see if we can implement some of them moving forward.

This announcement isn't meant to be a guessing game, just don't wanna reveal the full details until we are ready where us and Serato will announce together

Cool - tracking....

Hmmmm. May be possible and more usable now - think Serato flip?

Something big just happened here, anyone have any air freshener? :)

Compatible with scratchlive too? Or just sdj?

Whitelabel video service?
Videos in New Zealand?
Puma wins a free trip to Serato HQ to visit the country where lord of the rings was filmed?

I see that idea. It makes sense but is unpractical. If it was something more like what I said before, 1 file with several audio streams in the file, and a new switch in serato to toggle between them. I don't even know if it is technical possible, maybe someone who knows how these things could work would chime in.


Well you can't just tease us and not expect us to speculate. :)

Hey Code:E,



This is possible with FLIP currently having six versions stored in metadata and saved to one .mp4 file. You are restricted to edits of the original audio but with some creative editing and splicing via cue points most of what you describe is possible.

A little friendly competition for VJ-Pro. Can't wait to see what you guys have planned!

Sure that sound like an insanely complicated and time consuming task. Re editing ever single video I have along with source videos. I'm going to stick to my featuring suggestion. Plus I'm still on SSL and can't switch untill HID on the CDJs 2k's is fixed

You don't -have- to edit anything. It's just a cool toy to add to your arsenal.

And I'm sure I will once I make the switch. I will also be getting pitch and time and probably ever effects pack.

serato.com

Serato has just made the announcement to all of it's members via their newsletter.

Lots more bigger and better things in the works as well.

So does this also mean as a US citizen I can join your pool aswell??

sure just use your canadian grandma's address and its all good!

Yeah I see that its still a no go and no free downloads........

Am I missing something here???

i49.photobucket.com

Seriously???

serato.com

Then this...

www.xtendamix.com

And then this BS!

i49.photobucket.com

How are you going to announce something and it's not even live yet???

#FAIL

Unfortunately we don't have the U.S. permissions yet, but there are other people in Canada and Europe who will benefit from this. It may not be for you, but you aren't the one only on the board.

We are working as fast as we can with the U.S. but it takes time. This is a large advancement, it's the first time Serato has partnered with a pool service.

So can you give an approximate timeline of when you think you'll have permissions to go live in the US?

I do think it's cool that you partnered up with Serato, however the fact that only your Canadian and European customers are the only ones to have access to the Serato promotion right now sucks. I'd much rather you guys waited on this announcement until all of your customers (markets) had access to the promotion.

It was discussed, but we wanted to go ahead with it rather than wait. It would have been ideal to have everyone on board, but that wasn't the case at the moment. As much as we are very excited about the U.S. launch, there no sense in not doing it at the moment. Canada and Europe are also very big markets.

I share your frustration. I'd love to include everyone at the moment and I assure you that we are doing everything we can and as fast as possible to make it available to everyone

The US is not the center of the world...... Sorry Kurve, not trying to start a fight, just making sure your argument is not that.


Since your privileged to have so many legal services you may not be aware that getting world wide permission is impossible. Canada and the EU cover a MASSIVE base of users. I would venture a guess close to the same percentage of DJ's doing video in those 2 areas of the world as there are in the US.

Apple doesn't wait until china picks up iphone to release them in the US. Can you see how from a business and marketing standpoint your frustrations are understandable but ultimately out of your control and very low on the fucks given scale vs potential market position and increase in customer base (also the bottom line drives business and this will do nothing but help there bottom line).

This is pretty sweet.

So even with all the talk nobody thought it was maybe a good idea to add this into the fine print?? You know, warn the masses..........

Either way I'm happy for those that can benefit and hopefully (have my doubts though) just hopefully y'all can be of some service to the US soon......

xtendamix has been saying "it's coming soon" for over 2 yrs now...

just like a stripper.... you can look at the goods all day long, but you know damn well you can't touch...lol

Actually with flip, services can implement this feature flawlessly. Even dirty tracks. It's easier than importing, editing, converting

*censoring dirty tracks

so you are saying that the pools only have one track on their website for download, but within that one track, the flip edits will already be done, so the DJ opens it up in SDJ ready to play?

Can we say dope? Lol!!

No service does that so far, to our knowledge.

But they could in theory, yeah

that would save sooooooooooooo much hard drive space, especially with videos.... HEY RECORD/VIDEO POOLS... YOU GUYS LISTENING? ....lol

Implementing this in the process would only be benefitial to sdj flip folk so I don't see it happening any time soon, but maybe a year or so down the line once sdj bugs get iron'd out and if we also implement multiple audio streams we as editors submit single video footage, single dirty, intro dirty, the clean up with flip. The files would not work in scratch live, but having only 1 HD video as opposed to 4, you already cut your space by 1/4 plus the size of the extra audio track which is what, 15mb at 320k birate at most?

To 1/4 the size*

wouldn't the "flip" edits take the place of multiple audio streams?

Some Singles make for good intros and can change the vibe dramatically on a dance floor depending on how or if you plan it. I like having the option of both always.

Very true. Good point.

Yes Serato, please add the option to read additional audio streams within the mp4 container (which the container supports). Smash will have thousands of mp4's locked, loaded and deployed in a matter of weeks. Will LIDZ make a come back? lol

And yes its correct, the LIDZ concept was too complicated for the general user to grasp. The idea was having only 1 mp4 file that was connected to separate audio files via the video association feature. The way to do it today as others have mentioned above is to have one mp4 file with multiple audio streams residing inside it (the container). In Serato you would select which stream you'd want to load. IMO you would also want to set a default, so on a night where you wanted to play the explicit version instead of the clean, just click a button in the deck, or feature window and voila. yada yada yada yada.

Congrats Mark with the Serato partnership. And please, how is anyone going to whine about not receiving something for free? Get a life, seriously.

Yayyyy! That would be really cool.


I still think Lidz was a cool idea to get around certain limitations. Hats off to Smash for taking the risks and trying to innovate.

Also thanks to Xtenda for the freebies! Stop complaining!

I remember LIDZ, even made my own a few years back, but as Marx said, it never took off.

LIDZ??? what is that?

nevermind... i got it...lol

typical Americans...lol

NIK! Don't be a stranger, hit a mofo up!

I'm so glad people are liking this idea!!!! Can we start a new thread somewhere that's seen more than the feature request area to try and get this feature added? This would be a MASSIVE step forward for video DJ's.

I'm already dreaming of the mixing possibilities. being deep in a track and wanting to change it to the acapella on the fly, well you loop another tracks beat. creating mashup live and on the fly. I love the blend-x tools I get from smash, but they tend to change at times I wouldn't do the change.

The focus will possibly switch after 1.7.4 when all the bugs are iron'd out of serato dj and the majority make the leap. It has and will continue to be requested and a supported issue from us video DJs, just need to keep faith

Hey AnthonyS. I was learning about FLIP today and I thought I would just let you know, no I couldn't use flip for what I want. I want to be able to change the audio of a track on the fly between different versions of the song. starting a track with the dirty or clean is not what i meant at all. Think more like a DJ. You hot in the mix of a track and you just know wouldn't it be awesome to have this track change to the Vocal only version right now. No pre planning, everything on the fly as you feel it. and then jump back to the instrument of that track and bring in another tracks vocal line. Live mashup's. So much better than pre planning mixes and sets.... I hate pre planned sets. FLIP will not do what I need it too. unless I completely don't understand how it works.

This is what we really hope for ever since...

+1 i was thinking the same..

Would love this as well. I love MixEmergency and my MBA but i miss my PC which i prefered for video editing as the softwares are IMO better optimized for the new technologies as the Windows code is more opened so developers can really take advantage of every single component of the system. Plus i could get a monster configuration at a lesser price. I'm sad to have bought the Mac only for ME and i don't like the idea to have multiple machines.

In reference to which quote? :)

I agree with being more open for developers and programming. But what also comes with that is reliability. This is why Mac is really preferred amongst djs if they know it or not. It just works, mostly because a lot of it is proprietary. And trust me, you can't compare the performance of ME to SV.

I don't trust any wifi internet network in clubs

Yes i know but if VDA was used better we would have way better performance with the same quality as video mix don't really require high video bitrates and resolution as latest 4K movies. Most of the video clips are maximum in Full HD @5000 kbit/s so using VDA better would guarantee excellent overall performance and quality

ps : By VDA i mean video decode acceleration (www.insanelymac.com)

But what does that have to do with the reliability within software?

VDA is old news along with the codec. OpenCL is where it's at. And Apple never goes backwards, so there's no sense in dreaming there. Windows would be the only place for that presently as you mentioned above, but back to reliability. I'll say this, we've already developed our hybrid product which works with hardware decoding, although the release is obviously dependent on Apple.

This is not how the Virtual DJ Content Unlimited system works. All videos are locally downloaded to your computer via the software, there is absolutely no streaming involved. You don't need wifi to playback the videos. The system only checks every 30 days to make sure your membership is active. BUT on the fly you can start a download which will immediately start caching so you could begin playback before it completely finishes, but I wouldn't recommend it as sometimes as we all know wifi isn't the most reliable thing. But this isn't available for Serato, although it could be. We (VJ-Pro) could have an app deployed in a matter of weeks with Seratos interest.

Already in the works

Of course it would be, why wouldn't it ;)

So unlimited - content from both Xtenda and smash...????

Interesting - most old school heads want to actually still "own" the content but the new Spotify and YouTube generation doesn't care if them stream or subscribe.

"Why buy music on iTunes with Youtube and a paid metro pcs bill"???

I get it ! Sounds good though thanks for the explanations

I'm new to OSX. Bought my MBA 3 months ago. I thought VDA was just meaning hardware acceleration. Eric Egur, the intel dev who developped intel quick sync video decoder (QSV) told me QSV would be used on a mac having a intel GPU whenever VDA would be implemented. I don't know how applications like quicktime or compressor 4.1 trigger QSV. Thought it was through VDA. Any way it's off topic and i mentionned it just to say how i would have loved to see GPU used more for the decoding task as it has already proved it can relax the CPU and give better performance with an acceptable quality loss for VJ users as we rarely deal with so high bitrates for our videos and can hardly see the difference between cpu and gpu decoding.
Regarding reliability i'm sure we can count on gpu hardware acceleration on OSX but i'm not an expert. When you say you have developped you hybrid product you mean something not released yet ?Why does the release depend from Apple ?

Hey Code:E



FLIP can be used in a variety of ways and the main User Case would be creating and storing a Clean Edit ( Using the Censor Action ) and a Dirty Edit of a track ( specifically an mp4 version of a track in this case).

The FLIP feature allows for six versions of a track to be stored to the metadata of a track and it is also non-destructive of the original file.

You are however restricted to the original audio of the source .mp4 file and this only allows for creative versions of the one source audio file.

I was in no way suggesting pre-planned sets when I was inferring preparation would be the key approach here.

My suggestion was if you had say the Original, Instrumental and Acapella .mp4 versions of a track you could export them out of an editing package as one .mp4 file.

I understand all the transcoding and file size implications creating a master file like this but there are other benefits to a workflow like this and with minimal or no degradation of audio and video quality.

In this case with a Master Video Edit which has the three versions in it you set your Cue Points up and create 6 versions using the FLIP feature in what ever structure suits you and the genre of music.

Once you have saved your six versions you can MIDI map the 6 FLIP Trigger buttons to supported hardware then jump between your Cue Points and your 6 Saved FLIP versions.

This would give the freedom to jump from an Instrumental to Radio to Acapella and back with the video stream in sync.

This is a workaround to get to the functionality that you are talking about and also gives the creative editing of the edit to the User and not just the edits from a download service.

My understanding of LIDZ is a Video File with No Audio which uses the Video-SL/Serato Video Association feature to sync up the source video file with versions of the audio. This was an approach with the tools available at the time and time would have to be spent preparing and verifying the different audio versions synchronize with the one .mp4 file.

I'm only suggesting a workflow that would achieve exactly what you are talking about with the ability to SYNC 6 Versions of audio to one .mp4 file and trigger any version at any given time.

Thanks for the explanations. And thank you for giving the work around idea.

It's not something I have the time to do at this moment.

But if I am correct then I would have to switch at a set cue point in time correct? I couldn't seamlessly switch anytime at anyplace in the song could I?


I appreciate the time you took to explain this, but it worries me that even if a feature suggestion thread took hold that Serato might ignore it because you would want us to use the flip method rather than adding the feature thats being asked for?

Can we get this feature noted as a feature suggestion that the tech could look into implementing? I know it would require Video producers to also be on board. But it already sounds like some VJ pro producers would have videos up immediately. Maybe they could send the techs some test files to see how hard it could be.

Hey Code:E,

No worries, I will pass on the feature request to the Product Team.



Yes, you can switch seamlessly to the FLIPs from the playing track and then back to the track via a Cue Point. If the FLIPs contain parts from the current track you can jump to a point in the FLIP and then turn the FLIP feature OFF and the track will play through it's entirety.

You have the freedom to set 8 Cue Points in the Video Master File for example and RECORD a FLIP. This may be your Master which jumps from Intro A to 1st Downbeat A, Intro B to 1st Downbeat B, Intro C to 1st Downbeat C and the remaining two Cue Points set to track positions that suit.

Save the FLIp to the file.

Delete the first set of Cue Points and re-set them and RECORD a new FLIP possibly creating a mashup of Track A using all 8 Cue Points.

Save the FLIP to slot 2 of the file.

Follow the above steps creating six mash up versions using Cue Point automation and saving them to the 6 available FLIP slots.

Once all 6 FLIP slots have been saved you can delete the last set of Cue Points and re set your 8 Cue Points as the persistent set whether the Single or Xtendz version is the track you will play most.

Now you can jump between the 8 set Cue Points AND the 6 Saved FLIPS which all remember there Cue Point Automation from the Flip RECORD panel.

All the best,

Ant

It would be much cooler if one could simply switch on the fly between audio tracks, without having to use cuepoints.

Hey DJMark,

I understand the feature request and it would require an audio bus similar to stems technology to implement. I will definitely pass on to the PO team for further discussion.

Cheers,

Ant

+1

Or FLIP and having an independent set of 8 cue points for each flip version.

Seems like there would have to be some agreed-upon standard for what audio goes into which tracks...otherwise, making any intelligent use of the multiple streams feature would be more difficult than it needs to be.

example track 1 clean, track 2 dirty, track 3 clean acapella, track 4 dirty acapella, track 5 instrumental...

and I guess authors would need to put in duplicate tracks if there is no "dirty"...both as placeholders and to prevent accidental silences.

Glad to see this idea finally getting attention (again), there really is a lot of needless drive space being taken up in a lot of video DJ's libraries with alternate video versions.

I dont think thats the best way. I would hope that a title for each audio track could be saved in the MP4 also. adding a number for the track # and another some box with text being whatever audio track name the producer decides on. A midi mappable drop down list would list all of the audio tracks.

And to serato could you imagine how many people this would drive to use video just for this cool feature. Obviously it would be it's own add on pack. But hell I would pay $50 for that feature.

Could audio files not also be made in mp4?

Could someone just wanting this feature for audio reasons not take advantage of this?

Yes mp4 files can contain multiple audio streams, aac.

Can they do it without a Video component? So that way a MP4 containing the different audio streams would be usable by none video users?

Serato we are just handing the next game changing idea, jump on it before someone else comes up with a better idea!!!

It would be bad user-interface design to not have tracks on any kind of standard arrangement for this use.

Therefore, I'm confident that there will be no standard, since that's what inevitably happens if no one takes leadership.

I agree a standard would be helpful. But it could never happen. We can't get a standard for ID3 tagging files let alone this.

I think the drop down menu with the list of available audio tracks by name would be helpful.

If this was a Video DJs only thing in the beginning, I'm sure the big players and producers would come up with some sort of standard. But not every bedroom producer would play by those rules.

Drop down menu would be helpful....and obviously, absolutely necessary in the absence of any standardized "track order" for multi-stream MP4's.

It would be a hell of a lot more intuitive from the user standpoint to have a standard though. In the middle of improvising a live mix in a club, you're going to want to rely on descriptions in drop down menus??? Hell no.

Or are you thinking Serato be the ones to set the standard?

The problem with any standard is not everyone will want those audio files.



THose examples work fine, but what if someone didnt care about how well the video lined up with the audio. Maybe they would want to add a remix or 2 into the list of audio tracks. Many EDM tracks are just stories cut on beat, really a lot of remixes (at the same tempo) wouldn't be that bad. I wouldn't do that, but someone might. OR someone could use this feature as part of there Redbull Thre3style set or DMC set. SO they could have completely different audio tracks. The possibilities are endless.

The more I think About it the more work this would take. I would hope serato or some producer of tracks would take the time to create a easy to use free software tool for creating these multiple audio stream files from the files they currently own. Maybe serato builds one that that causes the files to only play in serato (kinda like .whitelable).

Anyway, I dont see this happening. I'm going to start using 3 and 4 decks again and I'm hoping to move over to a DDJSZ (though I dont want to) just to use the dual deck control and just load my tool tracks along side the original track. It wont work nearly as well, but it will be fine.... Hell maybe I jump back into ableton.... Now the gears are turning hard in my head.

If someone "doesn't care how well the audio lined up with the video" then I'd say that user is non-standard as a video DJ and their opinion in this is pretty irrelevant.

Obviously any user is free to author videos in any way they want...I'm talking about standards set by the top video services in a way that makes the most sense for the majority of their users.

Don't forget for this idea to take hold it needs to be usable by more than Video dj's. And dont forget that not all video djs play Music videos. I know quite a few people that use Serato Video for nothing but VJ clips.

Yep, this is really easy to accomplish with mp4box

I use mp4box for encoding my files and I even figured out how to name each stream individually with my scripts. I uploaded a sample here a long time ago. I will try and find it

Please do.