Serato Software Feature Suggestions

What features would you like to see in Serato software?

Bars to next Cue point

The Funk Society 7:41 AM - 19 September, 2014
I'd like to have an indicator of how many bars are remaining to the next cue point. I often use a cue point on the incoming track to indicate where I want to have completely mixed out the last track e.g. just before the vocal kicks in. I can't always remember every track and this helps to make sure I match phrasing etc...
Marv Incredible 5:50 PM - 21 September, 2014
Sorry man, but I've never understood this one. Surely, as DJ, you just 'know' how many bars remain in a cycle and it's not like you have to actually count them. You can usually tell by the music where you are within a sixteen bar phrase, especially with the waveforms on-screen. You can literally see the phrases and roughly how near or far you are to the start or end of one.

Granted, not all music is 4/4 EDM and not even those tracks always confirm to a strict phrase pattern, but even then, it ain't hard to tell. Seems more confusing to me to mathmatically count down until the 'drop'.
dizzyrocks2001 8:26 PM - 21 September, 2014
A workaround is to set a cue point to indicate 8 bars, 16 bars etc. prior to your mix in point.
Jumbo Boogie 2:19 PM - 26 September, 2014
Why not just label your cue points and show beatgrid? Label what's what so you'll know what to expect when you play a not too familiar track.
Marv Incredible 4:28 AM - 27 September, 2014
^^ What he said. Also, if you use the + and - keys on your keyboard, you can zoom the waveform view in or out and you'll be able to see several bars/measures on-screen at once, along with their numerical reference, so counting down will be no problem for you. :)
DJHessler 9:19 AM - 1 October, 2014
+1 on the countdown. It is a great feature in Recordbox !
maarawoe 3:02 PM - 4 November, 2014
Once there is the countdown, I will finally move from Traktor to the Serato... :-)
The lack of this feature is still making me to stick with the NI software....
The Funk Society 3:49 PM - 4 November, 2014
The way I've gotten around this for now is that I set a cue point on the out going track and call it "Mix - XX" where XX is the number of bars remaining until I want to completely kill the outgoing track.

The incoming track, I have a cue point set which I Load to and then a second one call "Drop - XX" where XX is the number of bars from the Load cue. By using the 2 values I can make sure the Drop and the point where the outgoing track should be killed line up.

Sounds complicated but in practice it's straight forward.
dizzyrocks2001 4:26 PM - 4 November, 2014
Quote:
The way I've gotten around this for now is that I set a cue point on the out going track and call it "Mix - XX" where XX is the number of bars remaining until I want to completely kill the outgoing track.

The incoming track, I have a cue point set which I Load to and then a second one call "Drop - XX" where XX is the number of bars from the Load cue. By using the 2 values I can make sure the Drop and the point where the outgoing track should be killed line up.

Sounds complicated but in practice it's straight forward.


That's a good system, I think I'm going to start doing the same.
Entro 7:17 PM - 10 November, 2014
Quote:
The way I've gotten around this for now is that I set a cue point on the out going track and call it "Mix - XX" where XX is the number of bars remaining until I want to completely kill the outgoing track.

The incoming track, I have a cue point set which I Load to and then a second one call "Drop - XX" where XX is the number of bars from the Load cue. By using the 2 values I can make sure the Drop and the point where the outgoing track should be killed line up.

Sounds complicated but in practice it's straight forward.


Good idea! Might start trying this too. But of course if there was a beat counter we wouldn't need it. That would be more helpful I think than looking at the numbered beatgrid.
Davmix 8:13 PM - 10 November, 2014
+1
maarawoe 1:06 PM - 26 January, 2015
Quote:
The way I've gotten around this for now is that I set a cue point on the out going track and call it "Mix - XX" where XX is the number of bars remaining until I want to completely kill the outgoing track.

The incoming track, I have a cue point set which I Load to and then a second one call "Drop - XX" where XX is the number of bars from the Load cue. By using the 2 values I can make sure the Drop and the point where the outgoing track should be killed line up.

Sounds complicated but in practice it's straight forward.


Would you mind sending a screenshot, please?
How do you count how many beats it it? - sorry for asking but I am dainty traktor user who do have this feature and using it as a huge benefit.
Moreover now when there was the Club Kit announced, this is the only thing that stops me from using SDJ.... :-(
The Funk Society 2:12 PM - 26 January, 2015
You can check out the image here: i60.tinypic.com Hopefully the explanation below helps :-)

Cue point 1 (Red) Load, track cues to here when loaded, "4" means the first 4 bars will loop nicely if needed.

Cue Point 4 (Yellow) Drop, 8 bars from the Load cue. I want the out going track gone by this point ideally.

Cue Point 7 (Cyan) Mix, good point to start mixing the next track, lasts 16 bars.

Cue Point 8 (Purple) Mix Out, ideal point to cut fully to the next track.

Using these annotations just gives me a guide to help the mix.

I manually added these details to every track I have,.... yes it took a long time :-)
DJHessler 2:17 PM - 26 January, 2015
That is a gr8 way to workaround from the missing function in Serato DJ
But it is more timeconsuming and should be included in a modern software!
Recordbox is for free and still better ??
Entro 2:44 PM - 26 January, 2015
After reading this thread I started doing this for all my tracks as I get them. Extremely helpful! Thanks for the idea, FatalFunk!

I agree though - a beat counter or track bar overlay is a crucial feature that Serato is missing.
Entro 3:49 PM - 26 January, 2015
Quote:
Recordbox is for free and still better ??


Rekordbox is a track preparation tool. You can't really DJ with it, although I think it has a basic crossfader now.

It will be interesting to see how long that lasts though. Maybe Pioneer will buy Mixvibes (they make Rekordbox and Cross DJ) and merge the two platforms. Pioneer would then have its own software/hardware ecosystem all under one brand.
maarawoe 4:37 PM - 26 January, 2015
This workaround seems working but its unreasonably LOT of work even more when I know there is an extremely simple solution which requires nothing but few lines of code with huge benefit and comfort.... :-(
Entro 4:44 PM - 26 January, 2015
Quote:
This workaround seems working but its unreasonably LOT of work


It's not too bad. I mean, you're placing cue points anyway, right? It's just annoying to count it out.

But even if there was a beat counter, track overlay, or anything that indicated the bars and phrasing, I'd still probably do that on my cue points. That way you can look a see, "oh, at this particular break I can mix out for 16 bars and it will sound good".
maarawoe 4:54 PM - 26 January, 2015
Not so easy as it looks.

In traktor, I set only some "mix in" and "mix out" cues.
Thanks to the counter, I knew how many beats exactly are remaining until the "mix out" cue no matter how "far" the "mix in" was what was giving extraordinary flexibility. Simply I knew that the track drops at 12 for example, so I waited until there was 12 beats until the end and dropped the track - no elaboration with the placed cues, their position etc.
Here it looks like I will need to make something like cues on 16, 12, 8 beats until the end so I know how many is remaining what is annoying :(
Must say that this is really hard for me to miss this feature.....
NickBendetto 3:31 PM - 28 February, 2015
+1 for "XX bars to next cue point".
Heinz Ketchup 12:50 PM - 29 March, 2015
Quote:
+1 for "XX bars to next cue point".


+1
This ist the last missing feature for me ! :)
Marv Incredible 7:33 PM - 29 March, 2015
No matter how I look at it, this just seems like a DJ crutch. Knowing where you are in a phrase is just too easy, especially with on-screen waveform displays. That seems to be the purpose this feature is being requested for because knowing how many bars to the next cue point is pretty irrelevant if said cue point is anywhere but on the beat of the bar, and preferably the first beat of the first bar of a phrase.

I'm not mocking, but it's like when my students suggest putting cue points to tell them where to mix in and where to mix out...I'm not down with it. Because it's like you intend to mix that track the same way every single time you play it..and that bores/scares the hell out of me.

That's what this sounds like to me. Unless I'm missing something.
Davideon 8:07 PM - 29 March, 2015
Quote:
No matter how I look at it, this just seems like a DJ crutch. Knowing where you are in a phrase is just too easy, especially with on-screen waveform displays. That seems to be the purpose this feature is being requested for because knowing how many bars to the next cue point is pretty irrelevant if said cue point is anywhere but on the beat of the bar, and preferably the first beat of the first bar of a phrase.

I'm not mocking, but it's like when my students suggest putting cue points to tell them where to mix in and where to mix out...I'm not down with it. Because it's like you intend to mix that track the same way every single time you play it..and that bores/scares the hell out of me.

That's what this sounds like to me. Unless I'm missing something.


I 100% agree with all that
deejdave 1:12 AM - 30 March, 2015
I saw this (and another similar request serato.com) earlier I didn't want to be the one to say it but............................. yeah.

This is just a really lazy one. Not to mention the actual platter position indicator on the virtual decks show a CLEAR indication of position in regard to the previous & next cue points.

To me cue points are for parts of songs you plan to juggle or need to access at any given moment and not to guide your mix.
Entro 2:41 AM - 30 March, 2015
Quote:
No matter how I look at it, this just seems like a DJ crutch.


Respectfully, I disagree. I use cue points mostly as markers or flags, identifying different sections of the song. I'll usually set multiple "Mix Out" cue points at different locations (break, outros, etc.) so I have options that I know sound good. That doesn't mean I'll do it the same every time. But being able to see when I'm 32 or even 64 beats away from a cue would be very useful. But I mix mostly house and don't do much beat juggling.

Anyway, like Sync, it's a tool. You don't have to use it, but it would be nice to have.
deejdave 3:21 AM - 30 March, 2015
Quote:
Anyway, like Sync, it's a tool. You don't have to use it, but it would be nice to have.

I agree with this ........................ to a point. Can you imagine if everyone who used this line got what they wanted. The response to this may be "well this should only apply for certain requests" which would make me wonder two things. Who decides which requests and what do you tell the individuals who this does not apply to. Remember every feature request is the "MOST IMPORTANT" feature ............................ to the person requesting it. For example.
Quote:
This ist the last missing feature for me ! :)



Let's assume all these things become a menu user selectable feature as in turned on or off. Remember for EVERY GUI change there must either be a move or a removal. What are you willing to give up? IS everyone who wants this willing to give up the same thing?

"This would not require any or much moving at all as it will fit right in just like (Insert DJ App here)" Sure this might but what about all the other "User selectable" features unless this is in fact the only important one.


It sounds like I am trying to be negative or a smartass but in all honesty I am just trying to remind of the big picture. On an individual basis sure "this" or "that" could be super easy to develop and implement but again who decides who? If we go on a popularity basis lets be honest and this would be one of the last things included. Have you seen some of the other requests? As time goes by there will be more and more (I hate this word but for arguments sake) noobs or beginners around here. This is a fact and one that is being facilitated. In my honest opinion Serato should keep some sort of code or professionalism so that it remains the software we all fell in love with. Serato is Serato. They are not TP2 and they are not RB. If I want to use either of them (and sometimes I do) I would. While I could get on board with some of the features either of them employ I do not think the simple fact of Traktor having this or that is reason enough to add it to Serato. Again If you want what TP2 or RB offers why not use TP2 or RB? I choose to believe you appreciated Serato for what it is which is why you use it.

Going kind of off topic here and I hope you understand this is not a fear of tech or a purist attitude. Just the love of diversity and the want for contrasts between the different DJ apps.

Not for nothing what a BORING world we would live in if every DJ app had every feature every other DJ had simply because they have it.


Back to topic though ............................ does the platter position indicator cue point timer help you at all with this?
The Funk Society 4:13 PM - 30 March, 2015
It's a useful feature to have when mixing Funk, Disco and Soul and not EDM which has pretty standard phrasing. F,D & S have their own challenges when it comes to phrasing so it's can be a help.

Discussing the merits of a feature request is always going to be a subjective debate however, Serato ask people to suggest features, the community chime in, if it's a popular request it may get added, if not it won't...

Works for me...
deejdave 4:42 PM - 30 March, 2015
In the end it's all about opinions anyways. I am not trying to shut anyone up whether I agree with them or not. Just trying to understand the logic I suppose. I completely understand where this is useful. Nobody ever said a crutch isn't useful. :)


Quote:
Discussing the merits of a feature request is always going to be a subjective debate however, Serato ask people to suggest features, the community chime in, if it's a popular request it may get added, if not it won't...

Pretty much how it goes. In this case we are pretty safe anyways. I'm not even totally against this anyways I am just figuring out the fundamentals of where this really lies as well as trying to understand it.
Entro 4:44 PM - 30 March, 2015
Quote:

Does the platter position indicator cue point timer help you at all with this?


Not particularly, other than telling me "you are about it hit a cue point in a few seconds". I'd like to know the distance to my cue points WAY sooner. 64/32 beats so I know that I can start a long blend and kill the outgoing track by the cue point. This is the way it functions on CDJs if I'm not mistaken.
deejdave 4:51 PM - 30 March, 2015
Quote:
This is the way it functions on CDJs if I'm not mistaken.

When using with Rekordbox you are correct.

Quote:
Not particularly, other than telling me "you are about it hit a cue point in a few seconds". I'd like to know the distance to my cue points WAY sooner.


Would an updated version suffice for you as in better visuals with clearer indication and more time but similar to how it is now? Or are you looking for specifically what Traktor or RB has?
Entro 5:00 PM - 30 March, 2015
Quote:

Would an updated version suffice for you as in better visuals with clearer indication and more time but similar to how it is now? Or are you looking for specifically what Traktor or RB has?


If you're asking how to work the feature in graphically, that's definitely a good discussion to have. I agree with what you mentioned earlier - any new features need to be thought out carefully in terms of how they'd work with the GUI.

Perhaps the simplest way to incorporate it would be to customize the "cue countdown" display on the virtual deck. Right now it just grows "by a fifth" when you're very close to the cue point. (I don't know at what distance that countdown is activated though).

If you could SET that countdown to your preference (like 32/64 beats), then the display would be a bit more useful. (It would grow slower by bar intervals maybe?)

I still think it would be good to have a numerical display of bars to cue, but that might be harder to implement in the current GUI.
Davideon 5:04 PM - 30 March, 2015
If you need to know how many bars are left of the track you are mixing out, do you therefore also need to know how many bars there are of the new track you are mixing before it kicks in?
deejdave 5:12 PM - 30 March, 2015
Quote:
If you need to know how many bars are left of the track you are mixing out, do you therefore also need to know how many bars there are of the new track you are mixing before it kicks in?

I would think no as you could have it kick in right where you want.
Quote:
Perhaps the simplest way to incorporate it would be to customize the "cue countdown" display on the virtual deck. Right now it just grows "by a fifth" when you're very close to the cue point. (I don't know at what distance that countdown is activated though).

If you could SET that countdown to your preference (like 32/64 beats), then the display would be a bit more useful. (It would grow slower by bar intervals maybe?)


Contrary to what I said before I could get on board with this. My argument (more than use or need) was impact and not for nothing this is one of those features that may help some while literally not affecting others. Keeping this where it is not too flashy (perhaps this is where the user selectability could kick in) as we know some are highly "confused" (not trying to make anyone sound like a do-do LOL) or annoyed at the very least. Other than that sure I could see this flying.
Entro 5:14 PM - 30 March, 2015
Quote:
If you need to know how many bars are left of the track you are mixing out, do you therefore also need to know how many bars there are of the new track you are mixing before it kicks in?


Well I already know how many bars of the incoming track there are thanks to the numbered beatgrids. But on the playing track those numbers don't really tell you the number of bars from current position to your cue (unless you have that cue point bar number memorized and are good at quick math).

If I knew that the display starts counting down at 32 beats away, then I could start my incoming track knowing the drop is 32 beats away.
boba 10:41 AM - 1 June, 2015
For me, it would also be very helpful so simply see the remaining time it takes to get to a certain cue point. Looking at the overview, I often have to guess how long it takes the current track to reach the a certain point; the point where i want the incoming track to kick in.

Using some sort of "remaining time until cue-point" would be a useful workaround, but any sort of marker would be helpful.

+1 for this feature, no matter how exactly it could be implemented.
Marv Incredible 11:46 AM - 1 June, 2015
I'm just in the middle of writing my latest workshop module and even more than ever I believe that all you guys asking for this merely need to understand music more; in particular your phrase cycles.

At a stretch, I can see where this could possibly be useful for tracks you really don't know, but then for it to be effective, you would have had to have listened to it to place a cue point so that pretty much cancels that out too.

Seriously, you don't need a software indicator to tell you what's coming up. The music does that for you. And on top of that you have coloured, visual waveforms to make it even clearer.

Not knocking anyone. Maybe you just don't realise how easy it can be once you know how. But I can't help wonder if you did, would you still be asking for such a crutch in your DJ software. My guess is not.

Out of interest, what music are y'all playing mostly?
boba 12:50 PM - 1 June, 2015
I pretty much know my music inside out. And yes it is helpful, but knowing my music alone does not solve the problem. To make it clear, it´s not a real "big problem". I think of the feature as a little helper, a tool to be more flexible. What do I mean by that?

For instance, i play the whole night in a club including various genres (pop, hip-hop, house etc.). I constantly think about what I´m going to do next, sort tracks, watch people and talk to people. The decisions I make sometimes are planned ahead (2 or 3 tracks in advance), sometimes spontaneous. Let´s say i want to get rid of a running track, because I think it sucks or the audience does not like it for some reason; and instead of a hard cut i want to mix the next one in smoothly, but as quickly as possible. With markers set at various points I would be more flexible in this type of situation. Yes, again, knowing the music is helpful in every situation including this one. But in reality, when I play for 6 hours my cognitive load is very high and I do not always have the time nor the capacities to focus on the tracks as much as I would like to.

Another thing about this: When I used to play Drum and Bass on vinyl I spent lots of time figuring out how to perfectly mix 2 certain tracks together. I practiced this so much, when I listen to some of those tracks nowadays I sub-consciously remember the point, when I used to mix the next one in. So, for me, a marker would simply be a visual representation of what I had to practice on vinyl.

Don´t get me wrong - everything is very nice the way it is now. But almost every night i play, at some point I think about this feature. Why should we not take advantage of the software in this case ?

greetings
Heinz Ketchup 12:57 PM - 1 June, 2015
Quote:
I pretty much know my music inside out. And yes it is helpful, but knowing my music alone does not solve the problem. To make it clear, it´s not a real "big problem". I think of the feature as a little helper, a tool to be more flexible. What do I mean by that?

For instance, i play the whole night in a club including various genres (pop, hip-hop, house etc.). I constantly think about what I´m going to do next, sort tracks, watch people and talk to people. The decisions I make sometimes are planned ahead (2 or 3 tracks in advance), sometimes spontaneous. Let´s say i want to get rid of a running track, because I think it sucks or the audience does not like it for some reason; and instead of a hard cut i want to mix the next one in smoothly, but as quickly as possible. With markers set at various points I would be more flexible in this type of situation. Yes, again, knowing the music is helpful in every situation including this one. But in reality, when I play for 6 hours my cognitive load is very high and I do not always have the time nor the capacities to focus on the tracks as much as I would like to.

Another thing about this: When I used to play Drum and Bass on vinyl I spent lots of time figuring out how to perfectly mix 2 certain tracks together. I practiced this so much, when I listen to some of those tracks nowadays I sub-consciously remember the point, when I used to mix the next one in. So, for me, a marker would simply be a visual representation of what I had to practice on vinyl.

Don´t get me wrong - everything is very nice the way it is now. But almost every night i play, at some point I think about this feature. Why should we not take advantage of the software in this case ?

greetings


+1

i dont why some people are against this feature?!
If you dont need it, dont use it !
I think im not agree with all your suggestions but dont try to bash this all time like this discussion here.
Entro 3:19 PM - 1 June, 2015
Quote:
I believe that all you guys asking for this merely need to understand music more; in particular your phrase cycles. Not knocking anyone. Maybe you just don't realise how easy it can be once you know how. But I can't help wonder if you did, would you still be asking for such a crutch in your DJ software.


Yes, I understand how to count. :) Knowing beats, bars and phrases is fairly straightforward. What we're asking for isn't a "crutch", it's a tool. Just like sync, waveforms, loops, FX, and everything else - helpful tools.

It would be helpful to know, in this case, exactly how far I am away (in bars) from a particular cue point I have set. That way I know that this particular part of the track works very well as a 32 bar mix. (Or 16, or whatever I decide).

I can listen to a track as many times as I want, but I doubt I'm going to remember in the heat of the moment that this particular tech house track mixes well starting at bar 134 at 4:53, you know?

This is a feature that is present in another popular software and on CDJs, so we're simply asking for it's inclusion. You can use it (or not) if you want, like any other tool at your disposal.
Marv Incredible 4:49 PM - 1 June, 2015
OK, this is why I don't post much in the forums. This is starting to feel more like an argument than a debate, so I'm going to bow out gracefully and say no more. But before I do, I'll make a few last points.

For a start, I take back what I said about 'I believe all you guys asking for this merely need to understand music more' - That came out wrong and I can see how it could offend and, judging by the defensive tone of some of your replies, suggests that may be the case. So I do apologise.

I haven't tried to bash this idea (nor do I think anybody commenting has). I'm just trying to understand the merits for it. To me, despite some good arguments, it still sounds too much like 'mixing by numbers' which I know has become very popular these days, but it's not something I endorse or even take seriously. I just can't. I don't care if the CDJs or other software has it, it's just another step too far for me and it almost saddens me that people feel they need it.

In my day, the music itself told you pretty much all you needed to know about the music, and knowing your music and music theory was part and parcel of being a good DJ.

But, there's no harm in asking and when asking, it's more helpful to come up with suggestions for how it could be implemented as well as merits for why it should be done.

So to end my contribution on a more positive note, the suggestion I would make is one that's been made already: Namely, convert the Platter Position Indicator to behave slightly differently to how it does now so that the cue colour indicators run in sync with the beatgrids and bar counter, with user-selectable phrase cycles of 4, 8, 16 or 32 bars.

The Indicator itself could also revolve in sync, so that one revolution = one bar of music. And so as not to upset any beat-jugglers who use it the 'old' way, perhaps there could be a user-definable switch to change the behaviour from platter-sync to beatgrid-sync.

Seems like this would go a long way to giving you what you want, without cluttering up the waveforms or beatgrids even further and not alienating any existing users of the feature it relies upon.

Good luck guys.

:)
Entro 4:56 PM - 1 June, 2015
Quote:

The Indicator itself could also revolve in sync, so that one revolution = one bar of music. And so as not to upset any beat-jugglers who use it the 'old' way, perhaps there could be a user-definable switch to change the behaviour from platter-sync to beatgrid-sync.


Great suggestion! And no worries about anything else; we're all here for the same reason (make the software as good as it can be).
cherano 8:39 AM - 31 August, 2015
rekordbox as traktor both have a countdown to the next cue point serato still do not understand how you do not have to be a professional DJ program, we hope to implement it soon
cherano 8:40 AM - 31 August, 2015
+1 for the countdown to the nex cue point!!!!
JBRiSH 4:51 PM - 1 September, 2015
- "Can you Count sucka's?
The Future is ours!"

*know your music, know what you play, and how you play it. Learn about your music kids
Raymondo 7:08 PM - 18 September, 2015
Yes please!
maarawoe 7:57 AM - 19 September, 2015
Quote:

*know your music, know what you play, and how you play it. Learn about your music kids


Thanks capitan! Thanks for educating us!!!
I am pretty sure that everyone here knows how to count to 4,8,16 and knows the phrasing etc. Who doesn't, he might find an interrest in some another hobby...

Really can't see any reason why a bunch of poser is against such a simple feature when it obviously found its place on more professional hw than are your controllers and building up your image by such rejective stance is not so cool as you might think.. In other words, you are exactly the same jerk as the people requesting it, just even more close headed...

Don't think about this one as about a lifesaver for lazy people knowing nothing about the music - if you don't know what are you doing, this will not help you much anyway - but about a nice to have feature, making your life easier at 3am and nice helper when you need to make a very tight technical mixes. Not everyone is just scratching but someone is also mixing from 3 or 4 decks a this might help significantly.
Heinz Ketchup 1:30 PM - 2 November, 2015
Dear Searto,
i would pay 10 Dollar for an extension like Pitch in Time with this feature. So nobody who doesnt need it, is disturbed from this implementation like people in this Thread... -.-

A visual Interface with a Beat to Cue "timer" like Traktor and other Dj tools i would like to see.

Thanks
Heinz Ketchup 11:30 AM - 24 February, 2016
Its possible to integrate this feature in the future ? :-)
maarawoe 12:21 PM - 24 February, 2016
Quote:
Its possible to integrate this feature in the future ? :-)


For any other company than Serato? Definitely! :"-DDD

@Serato - sorry guys but the request is here since 2014.......