And how about the dozens of mp3s that are put up that have the piss poorest sound quality :(

$10/month...

you get what you pay for.

Oh yeah, don't get me wrong, I know how bad it is. But this is absurd.

Rant: How about naming them correctly? It takes two minutes to write a script which makes this all automatically. Just using the title as filename is... not very user firendly.

keep in mind they (8thwonder) gets their content from several different sources (DJ's or whomever).. so they don't name them all the same.

I understand, but that should not be an excuse for renaming them before they upload it to their website. As said... it can be done more or less automatically with a script (assuming that at least the ID3 tags are okay).

its 10 a month. kinda like the behringer ddm4000 i thought it was an incredible mixer, but when i found out it cant do midi and audio in the same channel, i was pissed. but i payed 306 for it + s&h, i was like fuck it.

once again, its 10 bucks a month. i can piss on $10 a month

i spend $10 an hour tipping bartenders.

I don't understand this. It takes 5 seconds to trigger a script which takes care of proper renaming. 5 seconds.

It makes a difference for the customers.

anything with the behringer name on it sucks dick

Yes the video of james brown - papas go a brand new bag looks like crap. I have the copy of the video from VH1 special on James Brown with the same clip and it is 100% better looking. 8th Wonder cropped the hell out of the video to hide where they got it from. However for $10 per month dont look a gift horse in the mouth. The provide a service, who wants to pay the high prices for videos those other companies charge. You can always join my12inch.com for $50 per month and get videos or promo only and pay like $350 per year. Lets leave 8th Wonder alone and let them live. not too many services are providing anything for DJ's to download videos, I dont have time to rip videos and convert them.

Seriously... For $10 a month, you can't really complain. Sure, the videos aren't always the best quality and I'd never play a lot of the video mash-ups they post, but there aren't many other places to get videos. My12Inch.com is alright for newer videos and even then, they lack new releases. Occasionally 8thwonder will have a video before Smash or My12Inch, which is worth the $10 a month in my opinion.

Someone on here needs to create the end all be all video pool. New Releases as soon as they come out, Quality Old School videos, Original Mash-Ups, etc... The first person to really do this is going to make bank!

My12Ince would be dope if it wasn't for the BIG ASS LOGO!! That's the only reason I won't subscribe to them. We all should complain to them on that.

i canced my subscription because i was tired of downloading crap. it either looks like shit or sounds like shit.

Yeah, they really should up their video quality. A lot of their vids look washed out when compared to the original VOB. Smashvidz too.

i thionk smashviz will end up being the service to beat.
i think screenplay will eventually throw their hat in the ring when it comes to downloads(hopefully)
i get promo only, and i hate copnverting, if they just provided an online service where u could just down all the monthly vidz....i would end up gettin more of their series...

but too much time to convert form dvd to vob and then to mp4

it seems like 8th wonder and smashvidz have been getting vidz from the same place. i've noticed something after dragging videos into itunes.

Care to elaborate?

I'd be curious too since your not a member of SV Luis Gomez.

Maybe the older stuff but all the recent videos on Smashvidz look A LOT better than the PO stuff.

thanks Chris, glad someone has eyes hehe

You could be right. I haven't seen any recent videos from SV. If so, that's good that they implemented some standards.

They get it before the mpeg2 compression. Makes me sad i don't get the OGs like that. My PO/SP edits look like ass compared to the new SM videos. Nice work marx and others!

That may be so Nik, but who's gonna be writing these for 8thwonder?


Why thank you ;)

Hire someone. It just takes a few minutes to write something.

You know it's all fun and games and information on these threads but if that is Lmez's real name and I don't know how you got it and you expose somone's information you in turn are actually setting someone to really get harassed, harmed or worst. The guy made a statement which is his right about any product or service but for you to retaliate with exposing personally information, you are going above and beyond. That's like Credit Card companies revealing names of people they got complaints from. But do what you want but it is wrong and you are setting yourself up for legal problems you don't need.

i was clearly making an observation. i have no ties to either pool. in fact i feel that both pools are better(imo) than promo and screenplay because i don't like to convert. it seems like i hit a nerve marx. my intention was not to offend anyone. i don't care if anyone knows my real name. i have nothing to hide. but it seems that for someone who owns and operates a record to stoop so low, you must have something to hide. it's a dead issue for me. if you have something to say to me, you know how to get in contact with me.

p.s. i have some of your videos because i belong to a dj company. they subscribe. there are alot of members who belong to dj companies on this forum which supply music and videos as part of service.

The video for Larry Elgart - Hooked On Swing is PIMP ha ha

When or if ever VSL supports mpeg2 will these record pools switch formats from mp4 to mpeg2?

MPEG-2 is inferior to MPEG-4/h.264 !

Own I wish. CEO yes. Something to hide not at all. Stoop so low? If your not a member you shouldn't have any videos, even if your with a service or not. Hehe we don't supply pools to provide a pool. (But I guess you made your observation by watching your friends dj or I guess playing on their computers)

Yes sorry, offense will be taken when comparing oranges & apples. We take much pride in our work.

No nerve, you have your response I have mine. Yes I know how to contact you & yes on the phone your mad cool, on the forum not so much. But hey thats pretty normal. I have no beef with you, but you have opinions I'll have my opinions. This is what happens on public forums.



Hmmm....Okay I've spoken to Luis on the phone in the past (which he has told me his full name)I have no idea how or y i remember his name, but I do. Yes I used it to get his attention. You sir have put the red stamp of approval on it. Whos to say I hit the nail on the head? It could of been a bad guess. But as he says, he doesn't care. But thank you for your defense Eye.

With that said, Its my wishes that NO ONE contacts "lvmez" on this matter on my behalf.

Remember this is a public forum, many forget that.

all i said is that it seems like videos are coming from same source. i have no confirmation of that. it's just what i observed. you got all bent out of shape and thought by mentioning my real name it would bother me, it doesn't. but it seems like your upset about my observation. like i said, if you have something to say, get in contact with me. unlike you i'm being an adult about this.

I don't understand how people want to start convos here & not continue it. It started public y end it private. If you want to talk we can talk. Like I said I have no problem just responding to your statement. Thats kind of the point here where we post daily. I said your name to get your attention which it obviously did, nothing to do with bothering you. Don't know what being adult or mature has to do with anything. You through something on the table as I did.

hehe not at all. please observe. Just put your glasses on when you do :-)

Free videhoes!

i think we should have a seratoionent convention
see how many fights break out

you got offended because i made a factual statement? i didn't say anything malicious about smashvidz. infact i said services like smashvidz and 8th wonder are providing a service that is convienent for vj's. you typed my real name because you got annoyed.

I have nothing to be offended about. Your not hurting my feelings. I never said you mentioned anything malicious. I made a statement to your observation (or rather a comment that you accually have a clue where videos come from). Not much else to say.

don't make me separate you two!

More Free VideoHOESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

Because I met my girlfriend when I was VJing, does that make her a VideHO?

hehe I would never call any woman I dont know a Hoe, just u guys lol

I heart smash vidz's video quality.

As a three time subscriber to SmashVidz (I joined when they first started, canceled because of lack of updates, joined again and canceled b/c I lost my video gig, and now I'm here to stay) I've got to show SV love. They've seriously upped the content (about 20-25 new videos a week) -- the quality is great, and the edits are nice...

My only complaint is that it's tough to find GOOD dance music videos - I'm a DMS subscriber also and I'd love to see more videos from SV that offer fresh electro/dance. Just like a lot of others on this forum, I prefer not to subscribe to Slo-mo (Promo) Only. PO is typically late with tracks and on top of all that then there's the converting to VOB and mp4.

damn guys you are reminding me of the good ole days back in the mid 80's on bulletin boards.....All the good sites had a section calle WAR BOARDS...this is where users ware against others....Maybe Serato should create one on the forum.
And honestly I dont think anyone cares where sv or 8th wonder get their videos from (well bedies PO).

DJ Lil Vito> for good dance you may want to check out mixmash. I have noticed that all the good dance tracks they typically get them about 6 months before PO will put them out.

The MixMash Indie disc is absolutely amazing. Always some great indie dance, hip hop and rock on there.

VITO...Screenplay is the on top with dance and club music the actually put out two dvds a month one is dance the other club alot of stuff from europe.

yuh..
im not into that euro ish
just toooo happy go go shit for me, i likE biG room house music that just makes people that hate house music love it when there in a NICE SOUNDIN ROOM :)

shit like "put ur hands up for detroit"
i know its old but some djs are still playing "sandstorm" LOL

Umm..."Put your hands up for detroit" and "sandstorm" are both euro ish.

I played both of those vidz tonight, mainstream room = mainstream shit.

HENRY, that is euro ish!!! lol, that's their type of electro house but this link is house u might want Watchwww.youtube.com

i thinkwhat im sayin is...i dont like shit like "move it like a truck"
that shit is cheesy

i guess i have different outlook of what euro is to me

...just went to check on this week's videos (simply because I've already paid for this month's fees and might as well check it out) and the "Finally" video is interlaced and can't be deinterlaced.

What a fucking joke.

that mix kinda sucks lad. lol

Oh it absolutely does but if I wanted to play it I couldn't since it looks like horseshit.

Well what is a better online record pool? Now I want to search better ones...Is there one that you can just get really good a capellas and Instrumentals?

you need to join several pools to fill all gaps. there are a few that are the leaders.

Learn to make your own videos.

Smashvidz does a lot of acapellas/instrumentals, and the quality (both audio and video) is a hell of a lot better than anything you'll find on 8th Blunder.

Most of them.......

I quit using 8th wonder several months ago, and I dont miss them at all. Yea JohnCha and a few others have some hit or miss extended edits, but in the long run most of the stuff over there is rendered wrong, causes hangs/crashes in vsl and me.

Havent downloaded from 8th in several months myself. Had to shut it down.

XtendaSmashDTV video pool is how much per month?

The latest thing I've seen there, and mentioned it in another thread, is completely botched attempts at IVTC. Its as though someone there read something about IVTC here or elsewhere, and figured just setting their editor or encoder for 23.98 when rendering would make everything fine.

I can also confirm Millz comment about bad encodes...I check everything I get from there very carefully before adding it...and of course the only reason is if one of the better services hasn't got the video.

The last video from 8th Wonder I actually have gotten any kind of repeated use from is the L'Trimm vs. Gary Numan...which is actually a well-done mashup and the video quality is passable (not great). That was like 6 months ago or more now...I guess the $10/month since then has just been money flushed and my time wasted.

Just had to renew SV, and it looks like their yearly rate has gone down a little. So it's only about $30/month (or one dollar per day) if you do it that way.

...and just hit "cancel"on 8th 30 seconds ago.

SV has not gone down.
$30 is not your average rate it's the industry rate, which is going away unless you've been a member previously and up to date.

LMAO at taking the 29.97fps source and changing the framerate in your output settings to 23.976. I might have to do that to all of mine, save me a step, haha.

Oops.

+1 me too! I feel much less dirty

$365 a year ($1 a day) thats a savings of $235 a year :-)
this is available to any member after the initial dues of $127

Aaah I see.

no brainer.

8th wonder has the distincsion of being the ONLY pool i subscribe to wherei can very clearly preview a song and say...ughhhh no way id EVER play that, i have the full SV, djcity, whitelabel, dms, dtvid libraries all with their own external at my house because im so anal (NH) about music i cant delete anytghing and i DL it all.......but my 8th wonder folder has like 30 tracks and i go through anything i DL from there with a fine tooth comb

^....but i still can never manage to cancel JUST IN CASE that gem pops up that i need and cant find anywhere else

That is like staying with a girl because one of these times she might be good in bed...

keep holding out!! Some people call it abuse... or a waste of time and money.

I keep the ones I need or I get free, if it's free I keep it, if it's paid for and sucks I drop it

wait....isnt that the only reason to stay with a girl????

Make the ones you really want. It's easy.

no pool is perfect.
show me ONE perfect pool...go ahead, please.
i'd like to see one. name it.



if i ONLY had to pay 9.99 to keep a girl around that was good 1-2 twice a month, ignore her the rest of the month, use her in an emergency and throw the bitch aside when something better came along...it would be well worth it!!

That's the thing...it's been over six months since I've seen that happen.

The much bigger issue to me is the time wasted weeding through crap.

The comedy value gets really stale after awhile.

Plus, I just don't like the idea that I'm helping feed some "I'm incompetent but I really don't give a shit" type beast. All the other services I subscribe to are obviously putting a lot of work into their stuff and are highly responsive to feedback.

Sure, it's called "the dropboxes I share with my friends who also make their own edits".

Making your own edits and linking up with people who also make their own edits is the best thing you can do for yourself as a video DJ. Otherwise, you're just playing whatever the pools are giving you.

probably one of the better points i have heard so far.

yeah but sometimes those drop boxes are some sketchy edits too. I haven't seen horrible ones lately, but when I do, to the trash they do.

Not if you have friends you can trust.

what, friends you can trust to make a good edt?

Yes.

Friends you can trust to use proper aspect ratios, frame rates, and tagless, high quality video sources.

True, I have many of those, but still there are some that have the hiqh quality, tagless sources and still get the 1st two things wrong

My bad puma... Ill make sure my edits are up to par from now on.

Haha not talking about you and anyone on this forum.

I'll give a hint, they give away stuff on the mixinglab.net.

well if you are going to 1/2 call them out, how about just coming out and call them out fully...no one likes a bullshitter.

Damn!

Still waiting for smash to call out the bootlegger

why change the subject :)

It went along with the subject in regards to giving 1/2 the info and being a bullshitter.

I was never trying to put anyone on blast, it all started about droboxes and then it got into not so great edits.

like pools, there are a lot of video programmers that aren't perfect.

there are plenty of editors out there that are well liked but i rarely play there edits for one reason or another.
inevitably something is not quite right. with so many factors, perfection is next to impossible. then there are the elements of opinion. one person's opinion of what is right is not the same as another's.




as far as putting people on blast. go for it, lose friends real fast, make enemies. even if you are right it won't matter...but do it constructively and don't hold a double standard.
if you can dish it out, can you take it?

popcorn....

unless you have a viable (factual) complaint don't put anyone on blast.

remember somethings are opinion...even things that aren't opinion are opinion these days.
seems like one person's fact is another person's opinion.




i am just going to end it there before i start losing it about facts like music structure or keys and start getting pissed off at the dumbing down of the audience due to wanna be djs/vjs/editors/remixers that are so tone deaf they should have their brains and ears cleaned out with a power drill...gah...aaahhhhh!!...it's funny how there are so many video nazis worried about aspect ratio but don't give 2 shits about audio...FUCK!

Never said I was going to put people on blast, I don't do that.

Don't forget to IVTC your vids (haha had to throw it in)

really because ive read a few threads on video editing and it sounds anytthing but easy

some people say it's easy and anyone can do it, some say it's not.

Once you get it, you get it, but it takes a little bit, but very worth it in the long run.

Just start with the basics.

Hell just make an intro video and see how it goes.

Time consuming > difficult

you're a sweetheart.

I try.

All blasting aside, I watched Brett B's tutorial on IVTC'g a while a go... I'm no pro editor, but seeing how simple it is to get such great results, I don't see how someone can spend hours and hours making a remix edit and not bother to IVTC. It literally takes 90 seconds, the programs are free, and there are piles of resources online to help you...

How do you ivtc?

You have to start somewhere. You put hours into an edit because you want to at first, release it to the public, then get the feedback and use that feedback on your next edit to put it in a positive perspective.

its a learning curve thats very steep.
alot of new language, things to learn.

but once you get over that initial curve its not terribly difficult.
the best thing you can do is seek guidance from people who are doing it properly.

I wasnt ashamed, and im still not... to ask the guys that helped me out when i got started how to, or their opinions...and through that Ive made some amazing friendships.
so, its a win-win.

theres no place for someone who doesent know what they are doing, is reclusive and stubborn to top it off.... let them keep putting out their crap product.
its on them if they dont want to take advantage of the internet.
you can practically learn rocket science for free... how to make proper edits
for OUR USE isnt like trying to find the holy grail...its all over the place.
but, they'll continue in their ways...
just dont use it. the tools are out there, and i know for a fact...myself included, when you do something wrong people are going to let you know...
and you can either learn from that, or get salty about it.

If you're looking for high quality videos with intros/outros, remixed and originals of various genres, then I recommend you look into SmashVidz. Been with them for a few years and I love their quality of work and large library to choose from. Oh, and they do a great job on naming their videos.

Just a thought...

Cool I'll have to check them out.

Haha Puma

Watchwww.youtube.com

What?

hmmm...i think i will do the same.

hmmm...i think i will do the same.

8th wonder for $10 p/m = no wonder they're a bag of shiiiite.

Puma, I agree with you on the IVTC. I've had many a talk with Brett B about IVTC methods and I'm proud to say that I can't remember the last time I released a video on dropbox that I didn't IVTC if necessary (unless I couldn't for some bizarre reason).

Even though it's a PC-only method, Mac people can do it. Yet they won't because it's "PC", which is so lame.

It actually IS possible to do IVTC on a Mac...but I definitely agree that mindless Mac fan-tards are pretty lame.

dj cutt,

1) get some good headphones or monitors.
2) turn them way the fk up.
3) if that doesn't work...STOP remixing.


Johhny Rocket,

i will be nicer.
1) you are rendering wrong. not going to waist much time looking into how but if i had to guess take a good look at key frames.
2) here's a tip. play the vid in quicktime, jump ahead. does it freeze up? yes = something is wrong.

Fine, it's free and super easy to do it on a PC. On a Mac it's considerably harder and more complicated and you can't do nearly as much in terms of scripts.

I really don't think those guys care, as long as they can keep crapping out those $30-a-shot videos by the dozens and get paid for them.

If either of them did care (or anyone from 8th Wonder, for that matter) wouldn't you expect to see them in here? Kind of like how I did the Screenplay review and their guy responded within hours (even though he attributed my review to someone else, LOL).

Apparently what 8th is doing "works" for them in some sense, so there seems to be very little basis for hoping anything will get better. Just have to encourage/support the services that do care, I guess.

I'm sure their editors are getting better.

I've seen some shitty vids on 8th, but A.I don't have a subscription and B. I wouldn't use them if I had one.

It must work for the up and coming vj's who have no videos and think $30 to $40/month is too much for 300 videos (good quality too)

i needed the motivation video today

what pool has it?

They're really not. I held out a long time before canceling, partly out of hope their editors would step it up, partly because I was locked in at the old 10/month rate (it costs a bit more now for new sign-ups).

If anything, they've gotten worse.

Smashvidz serviced that over a month ago.

damn...wtf?!? i searched my HD and didn't have it.


user error!!

re-downloaded.

thanks

I strongly agree with you and was in the same boat.... for the longest time I figured whatever its only 10 bucks ...credit card expired on paypal and I figured why reup for 8th when givin a choice I will not play their edits

I'm no fan of 8th Wonder, but they do have a good service that will be coming online....good only if they get their quality of videos up to par and their naming convention....they will be offering videos without text on the videos. This way you don't get the large text displaying where the video came from with artist and title.

Again, if they can step up their quality and tagging of files, this new service may be worth looking into.

I'm still a huge fan of SmashVidz. They have done well for me and they work great with VSL and MixEmergency.

Is there any REASONABLE basis for thinking/hoping this will be the case?

Tagless shit videos=still shit if the same people are making the same mistakes.

Keep in mind this thread started over two years ago...with no improvement since then. I think things are actually worse now overall than before.

Looking at it from a different angle...like I mentioned earlier, I've really only gotten continued use out of ONE video from there in the last 6 months...meaning I've literally paid $60 for that one video.

Thinking of it that way, that makes 8th by far the most expensive video service...legal or otherwise.

even smashvids pisses me off...a lot.
if they'd just get the structure correct it would be fine. that would even eliminate the consistency issue.
they would be near perfection.




anyway...
as far as 8th's editors not caring...
earlier while posting my last message in here coincidentally an editor that does a lot of video work for 8th texted me about an unrelated subject.
i asked him about his vids. below are the texts.
"you want to improve the quality?Or are you ok with them?" - me
"what you mean" - them
me - "your vids are rendered incorrectly. Sry to tell you that."
"oh no one else has said anything, i render them as mpeg2 then convert to mpeg4 no else has told me how to do it i'm open for knowledge always sir."

i have never seen him here so i told them to look in area/83 more often.
basically, there are people out there that don't keep up with this forum or others. they don't know of the knowledge here. they did not even know to look here. plus, they don't even know their work could be wrong. improved or how to do it.
it's not that they don't care, they just don't know.

aye dios mio

Please elaborate as I don't understand what you mean.

Bullshit. NOTHING 8th Wonder has ever done has been good. EVER. Why would a "new service" suddenly be good?

They're scam artists, plain and simple.

Damn DJ lad - tell us how you REALLY feel why don't cha....

since i am a dj first, my complaints are with the audio and not video.


let me address the consistency issue first since it can not be argued.
xtendz are not consistent in the length of intro and outro. mostly you get a 32 beat intro but the outros vary quite a bit. sometimes it's 64, sometimes it's 32. and why would you put a 64 out on a 32 intro?

the 32 beat intros are fine for slower tracks but once you get to higher speeds it is not correct. it's easy to hear that when you listen to faster tracks and the way they are laid out.
most 120+ bpm should not have a 32 intro. it should be 64, especially with house tracks.

what's with the vids that are slower, follow a correct 32 intro but have 64 outro?
so there are 120+ tracks with the wrong intro and there are slower tracks with the wrong outro...they get it wrong on both ends.

and when you shorten intros from the original sometimes the mixability drops.
a prime example is their version of bulletproof. the intro is way too short and it start with a full on melody forcing the mix to be done with a clean beat. otherwise you will have total audio clash or a mix that will probably sound like bad no matter how you eq it. even with a clean beat it probably won't sound good.
if anyone disagrees i challenge them to post a good mix with that track.
btw that is not the only one, there are others.

there was a track recently that actually change tempo or went off beat at least twice.
but one out of many is pretty damn good i must say.

it's all that inconsistency that pisses me off...a lot.




i have heard all the arguments as to why it is the way it is.
'we figure this is how djs mix" - no, that is how SOME djs mix.
"you can use looping" - no, YOU can use looping.
you can say whatever you want. the fact is it's wrong. this is not opinion. if you can't or don't follow music structure then you will say it's opinion. it's just wrong. structure is not something that can be argued or say is opinion. it's just wrong.
it does not matter how a person mixes or which way they prefer it, it is wrong.

the only time i will make an exception to this intro business is if the original producer/remixer did the track that way.


this forum is the only place i have ever seen someone defend their structure.
every dj i speak to outside of hear complains about it. every dj that has played with my tracks from smash or heard them is like "wtf!?"...i guess that is a positive since it has convinced MANY people not to switch to video.


now...
having said all that, smachvidz have improved since the last time i commented on this.
although the issue with intro/outro length is still there...but at least the beats are cleaner.

They're scumbags. They have no clue what they're doing, but at $10 a month, people subscribe and think they're getting a good deal when they're just getting ripped off.

Fuck them. Seriously.

Tomato have you tried talking to them first? They listen to us ;)

I don't have any issues with 32beats or 64beats - I don't care, but...

I agree here. Sometimes there is a drop when the full track comes in. And also sometimes the beginning of the intro is unusable because it already is kind of the full track - just without vocals.

But hey.. Xtendz are not so important to me. I try to stay away from them.

I think I know why there are some outros with 64 bit (I've ran into this myself)

If you have ever edited your own intro/outros you might know this as well.

Say you are making the outro and the 1st beat of the outro still has some vocals on it from the chorus or whatever.

They probably want to have a clean 32 beat (instrumental) only outro and not vocals, hence the 64 beat outro.

I personally don't care for the 64 beat outros and still only make 32 and say f it if there is a snippet of vocal on the outro.
But I do understand why they do it. I'm sure it's not to piss you or anyone off, but with that being said, it's an outro and it doesn't matter that much anyway, so it shouldn't get anyone upset about 64vs32.

Well, I did ask....

Thanks.

ya get what ya pay for. ya buy the cheapest car and maybe you saved some money but you still look like a chump behind the wheel. just sayin'

yes, in this forum as a matter of fact.
the general attitude was "this is how we mix/like it so we assume other people do."
in the end they said they would work on it.
again, the intros are MUCH cleaner now. but the length is still incorrect in the upper bpms.



what puma said about the vocals and outros makes a little sense, if they did that every time. that is not the case.

i stand by my statement. whatever the reason, they are inconsistent.


i understand what some people prefer, but correct structure is correct structure.
for personal edits do it however you like.
but a pool should be following basic music standards.

yes, i will get upset about outros...proper structure is important. a 32 out on 120+ is usually not proper.
why stop there? why not just make a 4 beat intro?

maybe it's a pain in the ass to edit 32 extra beats with video.
i'd really like to know what the reasoning is.

Well I'm editing a video right not and am thinking about going back and adding 32 in and out for a 64 beat intro (I personally hate those) especially when I don't realized it and I'm mixing in on a 32 beat chorus and then leave the crowd with 32 more beats of just beats.

The only thing that's really bothered me with any recent SV edits is the occasional outro where the outgoing chorus inexplicably throws in an "extra" 16 beats/four measures of chorus before hitting the outro. J-Lo/Pitbill was one recent example.

The LaRoux "Bulletproof" edit was also real weird, because totally bare beats were already on the outro of the original....would have been super easy to use those for the intro.

Maybe part of the issue is editors that come from more of an R&B/Hip Hop DJ-ing background?

The only service that's consistently getting the house/dance stuff right at this point is DT.

Let me give you my 2€cents on extends.

On a majority of tracks, regular extended intros should be 32 if the length of that song's chorus is 32. This should be the "standard" when doing extends.
There are a few occasions of course, when it will need to be different to either follow the structure of the song (like Tomato is saying), or also to keep what I call the "hyping punchline" of a song:
Sometimes I've seen extends that "kill" the vibe of a track because the intro is a hyping punchline, and that punchline "disappears" during the extending process. The best exemple for me is "beenie man - who am I", on this track, what the patrons like best, and what makes them go crazy, is the original intro from the single.
So let's say I wanna extend this track, I'd add a 16 beat instrumental, then go straight into the regular single track (this way you keep the hype intro).
I'm sure a lot of you guys know what I mean, and can think of songs that should be carefully done when extended.

As for 64's, I see no reasons for those, that's pretty long and boring, but that's just my opinion, I understand different djs need different tools.

ohh, and there's a beatnuts edit that a good friend of mine needs to redo too because the hype intro disapeared ;-)

Part of the "32 or 64" question is based on BPM, part of it is genre.

The way house is typically mixed, 64 beats before the start of the vocal is a good minimum.

64 intro beats on typical hip-hop/R&B would be pretty ridiculous.

You are speaking of mixes that were done before I got on board. As I stated in previous posts, if you have an issue with a certain mix, you should just email me and Id be happy to check it and fix it, if needed. millz@smashvidz.com

Millz...just curious, did you do any warping/quantizing on the Earth Wind & Fire "Let's Groove"?

No, I thought it sounded ok. I work with what Im given on the older stuff.

Thanks for the input tomato.

The reasoning is pretty simple (as you said I've mentioned before), what's wrong with another 8 bars especially when it's higher tempo track?  Some songs don't need this, so this is done on a case by case basis.  The standard for the Xtendz format is indeed 8bar in and out.  Nowadays it's easier to hit the auto loop on the dicer if you need more, but we tend to do things the same as we always have before.  16 in and out can be found on club versions, but sometimes it's even more, it just depends on the original producer (for the most part these mixes are left alone)

@ the end of the day the only way to make your "structure" a reality is to make two versions.  Up to now we have made all the decisions on the different structures.  Now can you ask us to make an alternate version? Of course.  This will be taken seriously as not all tracks are built the same, but it will also have to make sense.

Now I'm really interested in the file that you say is not correct, I know of one that was released about two weeks ago and was fixed.  But since there are so many different versions etc could you do me a favor and upload it for me, I would appreciate it.

smashvidz.com

@Mark
Hiphop background of course, but also house, breakbeat, dnb & dancehall

@Res
I'm personally big on singles, so I feel your pain.

We will checkout Bulletproof, this has never been brought up before, strange as it's or was a highly played song.

Tomato hit me up when u upload that file smashvidz@gmail.com thanks

haha. I know I know.

I'll redo it

man, i didn't even want to start all this...ugh.

Millz, i know it wasn't you that put that out.
since you took over it is WAAAAAAY better.


this has nothing to do with what people like or if people think 64 is boring.
this is absolutely and solely about correct structure.
Res-Q mentioned chorus. chorus pretty much what indicates proper counts. mixing chorus to chorus is the key to fast blending. so having the proper count is key.
going back to that Bulletproof. the chorus is 64. the intro and outro are not. they should be. (yes, i know it was before you Millz. when i find another i will email an example.)

i don't expect you to make two versions, a correct one would be nice.
i never understood the 2 versions thing. you make one, correct, once.
if you don't like the intro or it's too long all you do is move your first cue up 32. bam done, your 64 just went to 32.





this is my exact point.
64 sure as heck would be ridiculous on hiphop/r&b. why? that is not how the counts are.
as i have said, your slower tracks are fine. it's the uptempo tracks that have issues.

I don't use them. It's sad that other people do.

64 is ridiculous, most are 32 uptempo or downtempo. Sone choruses are 64 but not most (in the rhythmic world)

For the majority it's sounds like you are commenting on house/dance tracks, and in this genre things vary. Some have 32,64,128 chourses, in your opinion the intro should match? I disagree.

Xtendz again for the most part is 32/32, Bulletproof was a Xtendz so it got a 32 intro, even if the chourses was 128, we would still make it 32 in. Its just what makes sense.

@Tomato
Two versions wouldn't be for different counts, you commented on cleaner intro beats. IMO this is something comparable to a xmix type of intro.

I might have asked you this before, but how long have you been a member for?

well, it might be ridiculous but it has been standard in audio for years.
it is the correct notation for many uptempo tracks.
i understand that you don't do it this way. it's your pool.
i am not the only one that feels this way.

btw, i just redownloaded the track that goes off beat. checked it again.
bon bon snipz by pitbull. after the intro it loses sync. i didn't check the xtendz but one of the 2 loses sync twice.


been a member for years. for a stint i cancelled and stuck with 8th. obviously you see how that worked out.

"Bon Bon" has all those extra little fills through the song...is that what you mean?

I do think for typical house/dance, 64 (or, more accurately, 32+32, since I would normally expect the second set of 32 beats on an intro to build into the full song, and the reverse on the outro) makes the most sense. Having all 32 ins/outs for that genre can lead to some abrupt-sounding mixes. Depends on the song, of course.

Obviously this is all subjective, but I hope the interchange here is valuable.

Strange again as it's another very popular track. Something that goes off sync is not ok and would not be ignored.....even a video with a flash frame would not be acceptable. I'll look into bon bon this week, but I believe our error percentages look damn good :-)

@Mark
I totally get it, but this is not our Xtendz series. We do release mixes like what you explain under "club". Now we do shorten club tracks to make Xtendz, many djs use this as they don't want to play a 7 minute club version.....and yes always valuable :-)

If more club track style versions are wanted, anyone can request so via email. But Xtendz was a series I envisioned and created, the general format is 8 bar intro and outro, but on occasion a Xtendz might have a 16 bar outro :-)

I play "Bon Bon" quite a lot (your Xtendz version), and haven't noticed it going off beat at all. Thinking maybe tomatoslice is referring to the basic structure of the song, which definitely doesn't keep a standard count.

Maybe there's some logic, in a case like that, for producing a special "aerobic" style edit that's strictly structure-regulated to 32 counts all the way through? (I say "aerobic" because music-mixes for aerobics are typically done very strictly that way).

yes, it is JUST one track...and that is really NOT a big deal at all.
i wouldn't even bother looking at bob bon really. i will bet you anything NO ONE here has attempted to extend the mix beyond the intro. so no one would really notice. if you cut it at the end of the mix you'd never know. or try bouncing it out to ableton or acid, you will see.



this is where my consistency issue comes in. some xtendz are not 32/32 but you do say "for the most part" so i can let it go.
your reasoning for what "makes sense" is the part i don't get. take that bulletproof, 64 does not make sense. how is 64 on autoerotique make more sense? why not make it 32? where is the difference?

once again it is based on what YOU think makes sense and what you want. that's fine, it is YOUR pool.
but fact is fact, structure is structure is structure and there IS a wrong with this. what smashvidz is choosing for intro/outro is based on opinion and not music standards.
i didn't really want to make waves or piss anyone off but it is just simple facts.

yes there is alot of what "I" think for many reasons :-) our opinion has helped pave the road, are we always 100% right? Are you or anyone else?

I'm sorry I just don't see the issue of having an extra 8 bars out....if not all edits are not exactly 32/32 then so be it....but again not a huge deal at all. If this throws your mixes off, you need to pay more attention, not trying to be a dick at all, but I don't know what else to say to this structure situation.

I will be looking into bon bon, we don't leave problems open, it's just the way we do things.

i understand.

+1

Wow. Interesting discussion re: structure. Anyone ever try mixing original 12" disco records? Holy crap, those guys were high when they made those. Intros were mostly NOT 8 measures AND they used live drummers.

Anyway, I digress. Smash does a good job overall. That said, Marx, can you revisit Judas? The intro > song transition is weird. Thought it was a bad DL, but the issue is present in both Xtendz and Snipz versions.

8bar in/out is fine with me
16 in/out is ok, but I still put cue points for those at 1/32/64(or when vocals start)

Even though I prefer to put cues on 1/16/32(or vocal start), but I won't burn 5 cue points just on the intro of 16bar intro songs.

lol marx???

Jud-a jud a as.

someone pass the popcorn this should be great!!!

Why is this funny?

lol, noooo.....cuz i messaged him about that one already.....i thought they had fixed it by now

this was the track that was messed up a couple weeks ago. the main audio was shifted before the render.....is this to what you are referring to Ingo?

This is what Gregg pointed out if I remember correctly.

my bad. thought something else was goin on. nevah miiind.

Yeah Marx, same one. Not a huge deal. I just cue pointed ahead 8 bars. Next time I'll msg you. Didn't mean to put you on blast like that. I have a great deal of respect for your crew's work, right down to the file naming convention.

no big deal.

So you mean the counts not an error? Because it did have a error but was fixed.

Judas is one of those tracks that can go either way. The song begins with Gaga then it has 4 bars of an intro beat.....it was felt that if we skipped the 4 bars it would begin abrupt & would take away from the song starting, for the djs that want it to come right in could just put a cue point 4 bars in like Ingo did.

No, the intro-to-song transition was off-beat. Nothing to do with structure. I just re-DL'ed. All good now.

This is why Smash rules over 8th (bringing the thread back to its original focus).

yup it indeed was messed up.

thanks for the support

lil weezy ft rick ross - john should have been ivtc'd

what a douchebag

err wrong post. But it does kinda fit :P haha

yea yea

I just IVTC'ed all the 14.99FPS 8th Wonder edits I could find lying around on my "archive" hard drives... doing a special theme night where the first person to have a seizure wins bottle service for the night.

What the... 14.99FPS??

Download the latest version, its 24. Also sign up for the "Updater E-mail List" so you will be notified of these updates. The 1st Rev was left at 29 for a reason (don't remember but always a reason :-) Personally I'd rather have dupped frames then jacked frames (is the name I gave it) slight stutters. Remember we were the first pool to do IVTC, if it wasn't done, there is a good reason for it.

First pool and one of the two reasons that it got me doing that. Not even sure why I was looking at frame rates.
I'm sure if you left it there was a good reason for it.

nice post millz.

its a good habit especially if you are a editor :-)

thanks, keep up the good work

Yeah, thanks to you guys I can't do even a quick edit for myself without being anal and making sure it's perfect.
Hell sometimes I go back to edits I've made two weeks ago and find some better way to IVTC, or a frame in the wrong spot and have to go back.

constantly have to do that.