Just out of curiosity how will you work on your technique without hardware? If doing anything without hardware you are simply utilizing the internal features thus using automated features. How will this in any way help any form of technique?

I can however understand the need for SOME of the features and I feel they should work on getting those available in the offline player as opposed to allowing online features without hardware plugged in.

There are quite a few reasons why this will never happen but among them are something you should be able to being a current Traktor user. With the way Traktor has full capabilities & literally allowing just about any device in the world pretty much ANYONE can use it and this includes people who did not pay for it. THIS presents a huge problem. A problem that Traktor, Virtual DJ & more have had to deal with since the beginning. Serato on the other hand has not.

deejdave,

Appreciate your response. Happy to help you help me. When I refer to "technique" it's a bit of a misnomer, I guess. Here are three use cases where I prefer to use the software without being tethered to my hardware:

1. I travel quite often and want to prepare sets while in the hotel or on the plane.

2. I like to get out of the house and go to places like coffee shops or bars where I can fire up my software, don my headphones and put together set ideas while feeding off the energy of a room full of anonymous strangers.

3. My DJ studio is downstairs, setup in traditional DJ booth mode where I stand and mix for folks in the room. This is great for parties or for when I'm actually in the mix, but it's not a comfortable place to be when I'm in the preparation phase of my sets. I prefer to sit in a nice comfortable chair in a room upstairs, adjacent to where my two daughters are sleeping peacefully.

When I speak of "preparing" it's more than simply setting up cues and hot loops. I like to get a feel for how tracks are going to fit together so I'll turn on Sync (as I'm only using phones so there is no cueing going on), play tracks and then play other prospective tracks with the running track to get a feel for how they sound together, the impact that mixing those two songs will have on energy, flow, etc... I'll also try out different samples, EQ tweaks and effects to get an idea of what works and does not work. As I figure this stuff out I'll build out my hot cues and loops and add comments in the track metadata. My goal is to make the time spent alone, standing in my studio as productive as possible. I'm 42 with a bad back and can't handle the marathons I could 20 years ago ;-)

I understand what you're trying to prevent and lament the fact that legitimate use cases of paying customers like me must suffer because a$$holes like to steal the IP of others. There must be a way to satisfy legitimate needs like mine without taking food out of the mouths of you and your families. Perhaps a community brainstorming session here to find ways to maximize flexibility while mitigating risk. Off the top of my head:

- Charge money for full featured software for those who, like me, want this functionality and would be willing to pay. I mean, I'm considering purchasing another controller just for this purpose if I could find one small enough for use on a plane. Give me a full featured software only mixer mode w/ a price tag and I'd pay it so I could get my prep workflow back.

- Set a time based unlock feature tied to one hardware controller. For example, by connecting MY Serato software install to MY Pioneer DDJ-SZ I enable full feature software only mode for a finite period of time (e.g. 7 days). This allows me time to travel and have full functionality as long as I'm back home within the set period so I can plug back in and reset the timer. I can plug in and use with any hardware controller (e.g. in a club I'm playing at), but MY DDJ-SZ is my "home base" (the controller that resets the timer and unlocks the software mixing mode). As long as I connect back to home base within the period of time I can continue to use the software. If I don't and the time expires it goes back to scaled down offline mode. By tying to my registered hardware it prevents folks from unlocking with other folks' controllers. The key would be to increase the hassle factor to the point where folks' attempts to avoid buying a controller cost them more than the controller would.

- Limit some feature (audio quality? level?) that folks with use cases like mine don't need, but would make it so that folks couldn't "play out" in software only mode. Off the top of my head, can't think of anything really good, but I bet you guys can.

- Broadcast "I'm a cheap mofo without a controller" or something more politically correct over every track at least once.

These are just off the top of the head of someone who's had a really long day, but if I can think of anything else I'll be happy to contribute. As I type this, I see a scenario whereby I use VirtualDJ or Traktor for my offline work and Serato for when I'm connected, but that's only because the current Traktor mapping with my controller leaves a bit to be desired. If/when it gets better it will make the back 'n forth no longer worth the trouble. As I said earlier, this is the only real problem that I have since making the switch. Unfortunately, because it cripples my entire prep workflow it's a big enough problem to necessitate switching back to Traktor.

I hope this rambling helps a bit. As things come to me I'll add more. I'm sure other folks in the community - folks way smarter than me - will have some useful suggestions for Serato and me that may solve this problem. That's what communities are for, after all. Cheers mate. Thanks again for your help.

Todd Michael

So I've been spending some time mulling over workflow changes and I've decided that I can actually use Traktor, Virtual DJ or Mixxx for testing blends and transitions if I could get the following in Serato's offline player:

- SP6 sample management
- Effects management

These are essential as they're part of the preparation that I'll need in Serato for gigs and demos. It's easy enough to use a software only alternative for exploring blends and transitions as I don't need to "save" them. Samples, on the other hand, I'll need to prep and test and effects are so unique to the software I'm using that it's a bit of a waste to use other softwares' samples offline when I'll be using Serato's in the mix.

It seems that allowing this functionality in a single deck offline player goes a long way to helping customers like me with legitimate workflows while still protecting Serato. Cheers!

Now THIS seems more like a feasible suggestion that I could in no way argue.

I'm new to Serato - well, I'm in the process of moving away from pcdj and choosing a new dj software.

Since many people I know have urged me to take the Serato route, I have downloaded demo version of Serato dj to get a feel.

I have never used a controller when using pcdj - I used the keyboard, but I'm looking at getting my first controller that can work with most programs.

I am too a person, that spends a lot of time preparing playlists in places where it practical to carry and use a controller and therefore looking a program that is versatile enough to allow both use of controller and ability to map keyboard to basic mixing control of software.

Is this not something that in the future I could expect Serato DJ to do?

No this will most likely never make it to Serato. Possibly some features will though.

Well thought out, and I actually like the time-lock idea.

i.imgur.com

You Sir, have hit upon a pretty neat idea there. I think this would actually be a very good way of opening up SDJ for a short period of time.

Well thought out :)

Hi, sorry to revive this post, but, I am exactly in the same situation...

for work reasons, I do not have my gear from monday to friday... that only allows me to practice only a couple of hours before the gigs on friday and during saturday...

With traktor I was able to mix two songs with the keyboard and mouse in the laptop during the week in free times, obviusly, it is not a perfect mix, but it works to practice some sets...

Right now I am using traktor to practice but I would like to be able to do it everything with serato...

I would love to see such a feature like a timer lock.

thanks

Agreed as long as it has the limits. Borderline inconvenient limits at that.


May I ask does the club you work at own the Serato gear or do you?

I own the gear. its an DDJ-SX, but since I travel every week for work, I can just bring it with me.

sorry, I meant, "I CAN'T bring it with me"

Hmm I hear ya. While I agree this should be looked at I would have to disagree with the "can't bring" part. For the first time ever this past weekend (timing is really so weird here as I have had it for almost 2 years) I got put into a unique situation to DJ in AC and it was an "whatever you can personally carry" basis. The DDJ-SX ended up being my savior and it was quite easy traveling with it.


I typically use CDJ's whether they are mine or the club's but thank god for this little unit. Again not meant to be a stab at you in any way as who am I to say what you can/can't manage. I just figured I'd share as it finally came up with me. To be honest the hardest part was using the SX in a professional application. This was actually only the 4th or 5th time I used it on a payed gig but never at an actual venue. Was always a private thing TBH. Very happy with it's performance though.


Anyways back to the topic at hand.

Absolutely +1 this!!! I am also hoping for a new mobile (iOS, android) app to edit files and possibly it could be used to see what works on the road as well. Especially with the introduction of FLIP.

I'm the same. I have a twitch for the portability which is fun but I'd rather have a pocket cross fader a mini jog wheel and a couple of buttons. it doesn't need to be larger than an iPhone plus. if we buy the Serato DJ outright, will it work fully featured with keyboard commands?

i might try to circuit bend a twitch into the smallest form factor possible for travel.... worth a shot.

That or get a new pair of jeans with bigger pockets so I can fit 2x str8s and a rane 68.

You cant really pull out an SX on a plane and try out transitions :p

2 simple ways I could see it working.

1. Introduce a few seconds of silence or white noise every x number of minutes in this offline mode (I think deckadance has this on the demo).

2. Lock the "offline mode" to one Soundcard output, rendering it pretty useless for playing live, but transitions can be tested over headphones (how I used to do it with traktor)

3. Some kind of ipad "Audition mode"

Like the OP I used to fire up my DJ software on my main iMac without a controller frequently to try out transitions, mark my cues etc, alot of the time I'll leave the tracks running in the background while I'm doing other things like writing on the Serato forum, and go back to it and try out the mix.

I simply just don't have space on that desk for my DDJ which is a bit of a PITA, and really don't want to need to buy new hardware just to prepare, and certainly not outside of the Serato environment.

I get the feeling the AMX is going to be offered up as the only possible solution somehow though :(

While I agree with that we must be fair in that he said:
NOT use on a plane. Traveling with a controller is VERY different than playing/practicing on a plane.

I have NEVER argued the points as to why this would be useful. I also fully support the fact that this would be extremely useful. It just always has been a case of feasibility for me. As in if an idea is presented with a reasonable solution for both parties (software developer & end user) than it has a better chance of happening than simple demands.

@ Steve Francesco I feel like your ideas are not so bad either. Have you tried inquiring with Serato themselves on these ideas?

I'd just buy the app outright if it came with keyboard control on the laptop and an unhindered feature set. kind of a unique position to be offering to buy software at full price for all features....

Not following. Serato DJ does have almost full keyboard control. What is meant by unhindered feature set?
The software is half price right now. Not sure if you were just inquiring about the price here....

hang on a minute :) ..... so if I buy SDJ then it's no longer dependant on attaching hardware and will function fully via keyboard commands?

aware of the 50 off deal...annoyingly, I just bought the video add-on. so I'll have to buy the combo version then ask for a refund on the video upgrade (if that's a yes to the question)

thanks for the heads up though.

As I mentioned your post I was replying to was not all that clear as unhindered simply means "not slowed or blocked" and I am assuming untethered is what you were getting at. To answer specifically though you get SDJ offline mode while being unplugged and online when plugged in. BOTH support full keyboard support though. For a list of commands you can click the info button at any time.

btw I hate to be a Debbie downer and not trying to piss you off (I promise :) but I can't see them allowing a refund on a previous video upgrade. Not for nothing wouldn't everyone who purchased Serato video or Serato DJ ask for the same thing? This is common procedure with software BTW. Just giving a heads up again. If they do grant you a refund with this by all means let us know here though as I know a TON of people who would like to take advantage of such an opportunity as well.

Honestly I haven't, although more I think about it, a simple one headphone-out, USB "certified" soundcard (third party perhaps) would really be an ideal solution (if the price was right)

It doesn't need to be a fancy 24/96k with a low s/n ratio, just something cheap and adequate like the sound card in the DDJ-SB in order to prepare the tracks.

I'd be willing to pay $30 for one, and it would require no extra features, just the addition of that one sound card as a supported device and being only a single jack out, they would be able to restrict its use to preparation only.

There is kind of a solution currently, except it costs a minimum of $250, in the form of an Akai AMX or SSL box attached to unlock the software and give keyboard control. Tethered, but its more compact than an SX and doesn't require them to actually do anything, which seems to be the way they like it around here :(

The AMX is kick ass not gonna lie but even with considering it there should be something else for others looking to plan/practice sets.

still not clear to me either. what I mean is; can I use ALL the features of serato DJ even if no hardware is attached? albeit with an alternative control method i.e., the built in computer keyboard or anything else I wanted to map (like a pocket controller).

I've never really understood the reasoning behind the Serato "must have attached, approved hardware for full features" philosophy. Is it purely an attempt to combat piracy, or is there some other reason?

It's the only software that uses this model, and I agree with most on this thread: it would be great to be able to at least audition mixes in offline mode.

It kinda goes way back to the SL1 where the software was a free download but was "unlocked" by the box. This practice still goes on with controllers and mixers.

By having the hardware unlock the software you don't have to have to have any from of sound options so effectively the software can't be pirated as the audio paths are hardwired in the software. As it's a free download it's basically worthless on its own unless you've bought some hardware that unlocks it. Quite clever when you think about it.

There is zero incentive to pirate the software and no audio configuration is needed.

Interesting. Thanks for the insight! It is quite clever, I agree. Just even having a simple crossfader in the offline player though would be a welcome change.

Would be useless without introducing a second deck otherwise what are you crossfading to. Upon introducing the second deck as well as crossfader you are now offering a full fledged DJ software without the "need" of hardware which is the initial issue.

Is it possible to plug in a Sl3 to a laptop without a mixer only using headphones to practice sets more portably?

You can plug in and get dual decks sure but how are you going to mix without a crossfader or anything?

I was thinking about that being a problem too, but just to practice transitions without fading in or out and set cue points is all id really need it for. Maybe there is a way to hear both channels evenly without a crossfader. Even if that couldn't be possible is there another stand alone program that i could use to practice on and set cue points for serato dj?

I have used a "Y adapter" heapdhone to RCA jack. Plug the red into the right channel RCA and white into the left. This will give you a mono approach and very minimal at that but it does work.

The best thing for this would be the Akai AMX though IMO.

Thank you! That's good to know

4

Pioneer wego 3 ??????? It has the same footprint as a laptop and i lugged it inwith my laptop in a bag.

Umm... this seems ridiculous. We have to do our set preparation on our legitimately owned Traktor licenses prior to using Serato to perform? Total bollocks.

The ONLY reason I have Serato, after nearly 15 years on Traktor, is because the DJ808 controller is the best of my S8 + jog wheels, meaning my Technics can live safely inside the house forever & I can still move the BPMs manually. The MIXER forced me to use Serato. I'm dealing, but you guys have some serious issues.

1. Standalone mode is non-existent - turns out busy professional adults who DJ on the side (and have cash to burn on our rigs) need to prep with only our laptops.

2. I can't save / re-load sample banks in any way at all... I can't even save settings for each of the 8 banks independently! C'mon... Look at remix decks and look at your sampler and tell me you're pushing the boundaries of tech.

3. Analyzing tracks is pathetic in comparison. I'm manually adjusting many, many files because your algorithm is terrible. Some files can't even actually reconcile from start to finish with a set grid, even if they're literally 4x4 techno. What gives?

4. Overall FX/creative flow is not as comprehensive.

- I'm gonna stick it out, because I really like the mixer/controller & I've played records long enough that anything will "work" in the end, but you guys have some serious shit to fix. If NI releases a new controller/mixer that's basically a competitor to this DJ808 (without the analog drum machine even, because let's be honest - 4 voices ain't that rad) - you'll lose more customers. Traktor used to be unstable and Serato took the market because it was very stable... That was due to it's simplicity. You guys had the market because the $400 laptops most dudes could afford could run Serato, but not the NI stuff. Today is a new day and everyone's laptop can run Traktor. I don't mean to be mean. Get it together PLEASE, because I really like my new mixer.

Also, keep talking to Ableton behind closed doors, because while your first bridge flopped, you can always come out with a revamped Bridge 2.0 along with Serato 2.0! I'm waiting...

Oh, and I paid NOTHING for a full Traktor license. I simply bought a controller. I paid $1275 for a DJ808 and I still had to spend a little on expansions? Dudes... Total... Boll... Ocks.

And some of the Traktor FX destroy yours. No gate? No sidechain/duck emulation? No way to chain my short loop to an LFO to a reverb in one link? --- instant "Circa 2006 dubstep wobble" lacking!

All I want to do is transitions and beatmatching. honestly, why do I need hardware??

You should look at my Dj808 for sale on reverb.

thing is I am in this exact situation, paid for a serato license and can not use the pro features without a serato controller, I ask why have they charged me and why do they sell the software if you cant use it?