DJing Discussion

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WHAT IF.... Serato had its own conspiracy

Henry GQ 1:11 AM - 5 February, 2014
What if Serato had a FULL working "pitch n time" and many other "expenasion packs" years ago ready for SSL..... but held back.

Instead they held back waiting for people to let go of their sl-1s and ttm57sl mixers? in hopes of buying new mixers/sound cards, but many people refused to let go of their beloved mixers/sound cards, so Serato had an ace up their sleeve... "Serato DJ" they forced people to buy new gear because so many people demanded NEW effects... and desperately wanted those new effects (expansion packs) how was Serato gonna make money? sell new gear. #seratoconspiracy lol
pdidy 1:30 AM - 5 February, 2014
Well I wouldn't call a "conspiracy", I would call it Business.
Dj-M.Bezzle 4:05 AM - 5 February, 2014
Quote:
Well I wouldn't call a "conspiracy", I would call it Business.

This.

In all fairness im assuming the entire rebuild of the platform had alot to do with being able to impliment PnT
DJMark 5:03 AM - 5 February, 2014
Even if they did all that as cold-heartedly as you say, good for them.

Native Instruments has been getting away with way worse, and absolutely shitty "support", for many years now.

The Serato developers were talking publicly about PnT keylock in Scratch Live long before the original keylock was added to SL (2004-05). It's been no secret that PnT was delayed a long time...

It seems pretty clear that the lack of ability to "sell" anything after an original purchase was costing development resources. Though I'm far from thrilled by every decision they've made with EOL-ing Scratch Live, I *do* find it encouraging that they're finding some ways to make some more $ with it.

I mainly hope the amounts they're charging aren't too LOW to healthily sustain future R&D.
Henry GQ 5:59 AM - 5 February, 2014
i brought this up because i was talking to a friend who is pissed because he owns both the 57 and the sl-1 where i just bought the 68 years ago and the 62 liek a year ago.. just funny stuff yo :)
Laz219 7:14 AM - 5 February, 2014
Considering how many people are seeing their CPUs nearly max when PnT kicks in, seems like the power of laptops now would have been required as a minimum.
DJ GaFFle 11:33 AM - 5 February, 2014
I do feel they're spoon feeding the features that should already be in Serato DJ. It's not like they're re-inventing the wheel by making a totally new DJ program and yet basic looks, components, and features are missing and they've been in SSL or iTCH for years.

Job security...

(nm)
Will08272 12:14 PM - 5 February, 2014
What you guys can also blame is the general direction software is heading towards thanks to apps. In app purchasing is a very successfull model in the mobile world and alot of mobile tactics are being applied to desktop software. Microsoft making the 8.1 from 8 upgrade free, making money on other small things. And apple making mavericks free also. Freemium might be the way for now that and also subscription services.
DJJOHNNYM_vSL3 2:34 PM - 5 February, 2014
I think there's a separate conspiracy between Scratchlive, Serato DJ, and Rane....
DJ Irv 4:43 PM - 5 February, 2014
After all the complaining most people will still go out and buy a SDJ compatible interface/mixer.
nik39 5:52 PM - 5 February, 2014
Quote:
features are missing and they've been in SSL or iTCH for years.

Gaffle, which ones are you referring to?
Kristian Valdini 7:38 PM - 5 February, 2014
******************
I wish I could find the post I made a few years back, along the lines of:

Serato will work all of the main SSL features over into 'Itch' enabling them to produce their own 'Non-Rane' mixers / work with other companies e.g. Pioneer.

Folks would be happy to pay for a 'premium' keylock (a'la Pitch and Time)... plus pay for EFX add on packs, rather than delaying everything trying to make it free. Take it or leave it route!

There was something else that I can't remember and strangely the post seemed to disappear when I tried to dig it out after Serato DJ was announced?

K
Jiglo 10:20 PM - 5 February, 2014
I had a good long run with my SL1 box, especially for the digital age. I must have had 6 years out of it and it worked amazingly well from beginning to.... well even now, as a friend of a friend is still using it. I've had 4 laptops during that time for comparison, as the first 2 broke within a year to a year and a half.

Even the TTM 57SL's have had a good long run and they're still going strong for many people that don't need the new features and highest quality sound from the later mixers and SL boxes.

Fair play to Serato for making that possible and proving first class customer support. I can't see a reason why Scratch Live can't run for years more for anybody not wanting all the latest features of DJ.

Anyone using Traktor (if they could get it running and stable, I couldn't) has had to rebuy the software everytime a big upgrade came along (if they wanted it) and Serato has never charged for the software, unless you bought the basic hardware and needed better features. Pitch n Time isn't needed by everybody (not me anyway, but i'd be happy to buy it if I see the need for it), so why not just charge those that want it rather than giving it away as a freebie to everybody and not making a penny/cent from it?
skinnyguy 8:01 AM - 6 February, 2014
and the REAL reason for Sam leaving is.......?

aliens?
Henry GQ 4:37 AM - 7 February, 2014
yes.. i wonder with Sam leaving.. will the companies policies change? will they become more liek pioneer? meaning: pioneer takes down negative posts, kicks people off their forums for complaining.. and so on.
Dj-M.Bezzle 5:48 AM - 7 February, 2014
Quote:
yes.. i wonder with Sam leaving.. will the companies policies change? will they become more liek pioneer? meaning: pioneer takes down negative posts, kicks people off their forums for complaining.. and so on.

I'll let ya know lol
Laz219 7:48 AM - 7 February, 2014
WHAT IF..... The real M.Bezzle was really assasinated years ago, and someone from Serato has just taken over his account to avoid suspicion?
Henry GQ 8:28 AM - 7 February, 2014
^ that would be awesome :)
Laz219 8:51 AM - 7 February, 2014
"Man found beaten to death by what seems to be a Rane soundcard, and stabbed with half a vinyl record"
djcrap 12:57 PM - 7 February, 2014
Quote:
and the REAL reason for Sam leaving is.......?


Scratchlive being canned in favor of sync
Serato, Support
Aaron E 6:42 AM - 8 February, 2014
Quote:
WHAT IF..... The real M.Bezzle was really assasinated years ago, and someone from Serato has just taken over his account to avoid suspicion?


shhhhhhhhh....
DJ GaFFle 4:20 PM - 9 February, 2014
Quote:
Quote:
features are missing and they've been in SSL or iTCH for years.

Gaffle, which ones are you referring to?

For example, cue points:
° Can't sort out-of-order cue points.
° Limited number of cue point color changes. (limited to two colors per cue point)
° No [CTRL+ < or >] for auto-magic cue point insertion. (why in the WORLD did they delete this convenient feature?)

… and simple stuff that should be done based on the current software features.
° Can't sort out-of-order loops even though the drag-n-drop looks like it will.
nik39 5:42 PM - 9 February, 2014
Uh, haven't realized that there was an issue with cue point colors being limited to two!

I don't know of why they have not implemented that ctrl+ to add cues. Only explanation : not enough people asked for it. Since there are now (with 1.6) enough people asking for this (now that sdj is open to sl hardware), it means that the amount of people who used sl and SDJ before 1.6 was small. Or they didn't care. I have been asking for this feature since sdj 1.0.
DJ GaFFle 6:00 PM - 9 February, 2014
I will say, the v1.6 works much better than 1.5.2. No glitches in audio like I experienced before.
djcrap 8:32 PM - 9 February, 2014
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
features are missing and they've been in SSL or iTCH for years.

Gaffle, which ones are you referring to?

For example, cue points:
° Can't sort out-of-order cue points.
° Limited number of cue point color changes. (limited to two colors per cue point)
° No [CTRL+ < or >] for auto-magic cue point insertion. (why in the WORLD did they delete this convenient feature?)

… and simple stuff that should be done based on the current software features.
° Can't sort out-of-order loops even though the drag-n-drop looks like it will.


Autobuild overviews. Was caned too
djcrap 8:38 PM - 9 February, 2014
Quote:
Uh, haven't realized that there was an issue with cue point colors being limited to two!

I don't know of why they have not implemented that ctrl+ to add cues. Only explanation : not enough people asked for it. Since there are now (with 1.6) enough people asking for this (now that sdj is open to sl hardware), it means that the amount of people who used sl and SDJ before 1.6 was small. Or they didn't care. I have been asking for this feature since sdj 1.0.


Its not about enough people demanding for. But its about serato during the first announcement of the canning of scratchlive giving a half assed list of features in scratch live that were not be supported in the release of 1.6.
djcrap 8:41 PM - 9 February, 2014
In other words everybody assumed that any thing not listed in the features canned from scratchlive was going to be in the release of sdj 1.6
Serato, Forum Moderator
Michael R 8:44 PM - 9 February, 2014
Quote:
yes.. i wonder with Sam leaving.. will the companies policies change? will they become more liek pioneer? meaning: pioneer takes down negative posts, kicks people off their forums for complaining.. and so on.

Nothing to worry about here. AJ is stepping in to take over from Sam, and along with Steve these three were responsible for working out our company values years ago :)
WarpNote 8:52 PM - 9 February, 2014
Quote:
° No [CTRL+ < or >] for auto-magic cue point insertion. (why in the WORLD did they delete this convenient feature?)

+1000
The single most used shortcut for me, and ESPECIALLY now with a total of 8 cues, there isn't even shortcuts for adding the last 3. No shortcut, just a shortcoming... ;-)
As with the chronologic cues too...
nik39 8:55 PM - 9 February, 2014
Quote:
The single most used shortcut for me, and ESPECIALLY now with a total of 8 cues, there isn't even shortcuts for adding the last 3. No shortcut, just a shortcoming... ;-)

It's not even possible in the offline player to add cuepoints 6/7/8 with using the keyboard. :-(
nik39 9:00 PM - 9 February, 2014
Quote:
yes.. i wonder with Sam leaving.. will the companies policies change? will they become more liek pioneer? meaning: pioneer takes down negative posts, kicks people off their forums for complaining.. and so on.

If you check AJ's posting record, then you will see that he is quite an open person! He was the person (along with Steve) who explained in the detail how the Noisemap control signal works. That was at a time when there was already a big competing product out there, called Final Scratch.
While the forums at Final Scratch were a huge mess (moderators like nmonic and others) were happily deleting posts and any negative comments, this forum was very very different. Fortunately it has not changed. You will very rarely see posts being hidden/deleted/edited. And even then users are usually notified. [nm/no NSA ;) ]
WarpNote 9:01 PM - 9 February, 2014
Quote:
Quote:
The single most used shortcut for me, and ESPECIALLY now with a total of 8 cues, there isn't even shortcuts for adding the last 3. No shortcut, just a shortcoming... ;-)

It's not even possible in the offline player to add cuepoints 6/7/8 with using the keyboard. :-(

^^^^ THIS !!! ^^^^
Jiglo 9:32 PM - 9 February, 2014
Don't you guys just click on the trackpad to add your cues? I can't see any problems adding all 8 cue points the way i've always done them offline.
WarpNote 9:36 PM - 9 February, 2014
Anyone being slightly computer literate, knows that short cuts are a lot faster than point clicking, by your reasoning Serato could remove all shortcuts without you seeing problems... ;-)
Jiglo 9:49 PM - 9 February, 2014
What can be quicker than pressing the trackpad to add a cue point?

My reasoning is just that there's a simple way of adding all 8 cue points that even my grandma could suss out straight away, so problem solved, or myth busted if you like ;)
nik39 9:55 PM - 9 February, 2014
Quote:
What can be quicker than pressing the trackpad to add a cue point?

Using keyboard - I'll bet we're faster.

Quote:
problem solved, or myth busted

Not at all.

This is what I wrote:
Quote:
It's not even possible in the offline player to add cuepoints 6/7/8 with using the keyboard.

This is possibly what you read:
Quote:
It's not possible to add cuepoints 6/7/8.

;)
Jiglo 10:02 PM - 9 February, 2014
No problem, but for people less anally retentive, it's simplicity in itself to add all 8 cue points practically instantly.
Serato, Support
Aaron E 10:03 PM - 9 February, 2014
Quote:
° Limited number of cue point color changes. (limited to two colors per cue point)


Is this happening for you?

You should be able to select any colour from the palette by holding control and clicking on the cue point play button.

Cheers
Aaron
WarpNote 10:30 PM - 9 February, 2014
Quote:
No problem, but for people less anally retentive, it's simplicity in itself to add all 8 cue points practically instantly.
To claim we are anally retentive for wanting what is considered basic functionality in most professional software, is a far stretch.

Quote:
What can be quicker than pressing the trackpad to add a cue point?
ALL other options are quicker, ie shortcuts, midipads as you don't have to watch the screen while working.

Quote:
My reasoning is just that there's a simple way of adding all 8 cue points that even my grandma could suss out straight away, so problem solved, or myth busted if you like ;)
If you wanna recommend a DJ software for your granny, Id say pick something like algoriddim djay. Even though SDJ is available for the cheap beaginner controller types, does not mean Serato should give up on professionals.

Have you ever even worked in professional video, graphics or music production programs?
If you did, you would know that shortcuts are fundamental to reliable and quick workflow/pipeline.

Sorry to come across so harsh, but this stuff is fundamental!
Jiglo 10:57 PM - 9 February, 2014
Fair play WarpNote, that's taught me mate.

I can now see how and why you have a certain way of doing things and now I understand your dilemma, i'll retract that statement.

However, the type of stuff you're doing is probably so specialist, that I can see why it's a lower priority as i'm sure most people that do use the software don't have your demands, so it's only fundamental to specialists as most people have a quick and easy work around.

For the record, I only use V7's at home and more so since DJ became available for the V7's. When playing live I use turntables (as I have done for 23 years) and my method of setting up cues, either via trackpad, dicers or the cue points on the V7's is perfectly adequate for my needs.
WarpNote 11:08 PM - 9 February, 2014
Gotcha Jiglo, the workaround is easy, however not that quick IMO.
Its when using the offline player prepping tracks, this limitation really comes to show.
Whenever having some sort of midi connected, the "workaround" is a lot better than using the mouse trackpad.
skinnyguy 6:43 PM - 10 February, 2014
no autobuild overviews? wtf?
djcrap 9:13 PM - 10 February, 2014
Quote:
no autobuild overviews? wtf?


Yup as if that is not enough stabbing in the back this is also not supported in sdj

The input reverse feature will transfer control over to the alternate virtual deck. For example, the physical record on the right hand side now controls the left hand side virtual deck. This essentially lets you continue mixing, but just using one turntable.

Historically when the input reverse feature was created, there was no instant doubles mode. However, with the recent introduction of instant doubles, which is easier to use and transfers more information over to the new virtual deck. It is a wiser choice to learn how to use instant doubles rather than having to learn about input reverse mode. Check out this article on using instant doubles.


So what is user with a broken needle or on rane boxes or a 68 that do not have instant double buttons and playing with one turntable acting up supposed to do
Laz219 10:31 PM - 10 February, 2014
Whenever I use instant doubles- I usually just use the trackpad to drag the track over to the other deck.
Mr. Goodkat 11:53 PM - 10 February, 2014
control and arrow right left is so much faster and easier,
Serato, Forum Moderator
Michael R 3:40 AM - 11 February, 2014
Quote:
no autobuild overviews? wtf?

Autobuild overviews is always on in Serato DJ, it's no longer an option :)
skinnyguy 5:11 PM - 11 February, 2014
*whew*

thanks mike
skinnyguy 5:11 PM - 11 February, 2014
......but still not switching yet.
Serato, Forum Moderator
Michael R 8:35 PM - 11 February, 2014
Quote:
......but still not switching yet.

You don't have to switch, but you should give it a go if you haven't already :)
djcrap 8:46 PM - 11 February, 2014
Quote:
Quote:
no autobuild overviews? wtf?

Autobuild overviews is always on in Serato DJ, it's no longer an option :)


Are you sure its not only on when anlayzing files in off line player

May be am reading this thread wrong

Martin C 7:20 PM - 4 February, 2014
Hi Chad,

No worries bro, we can talk about all those issues here.

Quote:
I do not see an auto-fill overviews tab. This means any songs not previously analyzed will "write tags" upon eject.

This is shown at the bottom of the screen, it creates a CPU spike and has been known to cause audio glitches.


We always recommend users to analyse files before playing in offline player to minimise the risk of this creating a performance problem. In the case where there is simply no time for this, I think most computers people are running these days should be able to cope with the occasional spike of CPU without introducing audio issues.

If they do have problems, then I'd recommend for them to increase the buffer size or optimise the PC in other ways to reduce this risk. We don't have any solid plans to bring this back
djcrap 8:49 PM - 11 February, 2014
^^^^^ that is martin c is response about autobuild overviews right here

serato.com
Serato, Support
Aaron E 9:50 PM - 11 February, 2014
What Martin is saying is that we don't have any plans to bring back the option. Autobuild overviews is there by default.

Cheers
Aaron
Laz219 10:08 PM - 11 February, 2014
I think it is better as switched on by default anyway, used to always wonder why people left it off when they were running high spec MBPs. I don't think I've ever seen it cause a problem for someone- except people that are barely making minimum spec anyway.
skinnyguy 10:14 PM - 11 February, 2014
Quote:
Quote:
......but still not switching yet.

You don't have to switch, but you should give it a go if you haven't already :)


one day....

i understand there is a firmware update for use with the 62. will i still be able to use ssl with it? with no issues?

because other than that, i only have an sl1 box.
Serato, Support
Aaron E 11:00 PM - 11 February, 2014
Quote:
i understand there is a firmware update for use with the 62. will i still be able to use ssl with it? with no issues?


Unfortunately there is currently one known issue with this firmware update and the Rane Sixty Two. Although there is flawless performance in Serato DJ with the firmware update designed to bring the Sixty Two across, there have been some reports of crashing in Scratch Live under certain conditions when two computers are connected.

This doesn't affect those using their Sixty Two with Serato DJ (or those running Scratch Live with just one computer connected) and a fix is being worked on now which should should be available soon.

Cheers
Aaron
Serato, Forum Moderator
Michael R 11:01 PM - 11 February, 2014
Quote:
I think it is better as switched on by default anyway, used to always wonder why people left it off when they were running high spec MBPs. I don't think I've ever seen it cause a problem for someone- except people that are barely making minimum spec anyway.

Exactly. Back in the dark ages some computers couldn't handle it. These days computers are much more powerful and a computer running at the Serato DJ minimum spec should be able to handle it, hence why it's no longer an option :)
Serato, Forum Moderator
Michael R 11:03 PM - 11 February, 2014
Quote:
i understand there is a firmware update for use with the 62. will i still be able to use ssl with it? with no issues?

Correct, you will need to update the firmware. It is still backwards compatible with Scratch Live, although I understand that there is an issue which may cause a crash when running the Sixty-Two on Scratch Live with two computers connected. Rane are looking into this, so if this is of concern to you you may wish to wait.
djcrap 11:46 PM - 11 February, 2014
Quote:
What Martin is saying is that we don't have any plans to bring back the option. Autobuild overviews is there by default.

Cheers
Aaron


Thanks for the clarification.
djcrap 11:55 PM - 11 February, 2014
Quote:
Quote:
I think it is better as switched on by default anyway, used to always wonder why people left it off when they were running high spec MBPs. I don't think I've ever seen it cause a problem for someone- except people that are barely making minimum spec anyway.

Exactly. Back in the dark ages some computers couldn't handle it. These days computers are much more powerful and a computer running at the Serato DJ minimum spec should be able to handle it, hence why it's no longer an option :)


Hahahaha dark ages very funny!

Just curious what are the specs of the fastest pc or mac destrop and laptop at serato headquarters?
Serato, Forum Moderator
Michael R 1:00 AM - 12 February, 2014
Quote:
Just curious what are the specs of the fastest pc or mac destrop and laptop at serato headquarters?

I have no idea, there are lots of computers here. Sorry!
Laz219 6:37 AM - 12 February, 2014
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
I think it is better as switched on by default anyway, used to always wonder why people left it off when they were running high spec MBPs. I don't think I've ever seen it cause a problem for someone- except people that are barely making minimum spec anyway.

Exactly. Back in the dark ages some computers couldn't handle it. These days computers are much more powerful and a computer running at the Serato DJ minimum spec should be able to handle it, hence why it's no longer an option :)


Hahahaha dark ages very funny!

Just curious what are the specs of the fastest pc or mac destrop and laptop at serato headquarters?


Pretty sure this is the main setup:
en.wikipedia.org
WarpNote 7:43 AM - 12 February, 2014
Quote:
Pretty sure this is the main setup:
en.wikipedia.org

I think they upgraded since: en.wikipedia.org
AKIEM 7:48 AM - 12 February, 2014
that shit cray 1
WarpNote 8:02 AM - 12 February, 2014
Lets not forget the smaller high powered MODERN machines ;-)
-> en.wikipedia.org
nik39 9:42 AM - 12 February, 2014
Quote:
that shit cray 1

:D
djcrap 10:35 AM - 12 February, 2014
Quote:
that shit cray 1

Quote:
Lets not forget the smaller high powered MODERN machines ;-)
-> en.wikipedia.org


Explains why some times iyou scratch your head when in a help resquet you get am unable to reproduce it over here. Then wonder what kind of laotop they are using to reproduce the issue.

Wait for it






Wait for it. Conspiracy theories lol
skinnyguy 7:48 PM - 12 February, 2014
thanks for the info aaron and michael
Serato, Support
Aaron E 8:20 PM - 12 February, 2014
No worries skinnyguy :)

We have recently upgraded all our testing systems to the latest spec so hit us with your issues anytime.

pmstories.com
Serato, Forum Moderator
Michael R 12:01 AM - 13 February, 2014
I'm doing all my testing on this -> en.wikipedia.org
AKIEM 12:04 AM - 13 February, 2014
are you guys planning to support this en.wikipedia.org ?
thanks in advance
Serato, Support
Aaron E 1:34 AM - 13 February, 2014
Quote:
are you guys planning to support this en.wikipedia.org ?
thanks in advance


We don't currently have any plans to support the Commodore 64, but feel free to start a thread in the feature requests area to garner support.

[note to products team: start looking into a shippable product for cassette tape devices]
Serato, Forum Moderator
Michael R 5:04 AM - 13 February, 2014
Quote:
are you guys planning to support this en.wikipedia.org ?
thanks in advance

Best computer of all time, no joke.
Laz219 8:46 AM - 13 February, 2014
Geez everyone, enough with the jokes.
Don't you know it's all about mac here...

Now, why won't SDJ, PnT, SP-6, DJ-FX and Video all run on this? I'm pretty frustrated... I was told to get a mac, so I got this:
en.wikipedia.org
I can't even get the CD to fit in the slot on the front,
nik39 12:58 PM - 13 February, 2014
Quote:
Geez everyone, enough with the jokes.
Don't you know it's all about mac here...

Now, why won't SDJ, PnT, SP-6, DJ-FX and Video all run on this? I'm pretty frustrated... I was told to get a mac, so I got this:
en.wikipedia.org
I can't even get the CD to fit in the slot on the front,

You think this is a challenge?

Tried connecting the SL box to the Mac? Where the funk is the USB port?!?
Serato, Support
Aaron E 7:50 PM - 13 February, 2014
Quote:
Tried connecting the SL box to the Mac? Where the funk is the USB port?!?


No problem if you have a bagel hub.

www.livbit.com
AKIEM 8:32 PM - 13 February, 2014
Quote:
Quote:
are you guys planning to support this en.wikipedia.org ?
thanks in advance

Best computer of all time, no joke.


It was great.
djkavika 7:04 AM - 31 March, 2014
Buy a Mac they said, Everything will work they said. #needbetterdevelopers
DJ GaFFle 10:01 AM - 2 April, 2014
Ouch!
Joee 2:17 PM - 2 April, 2014
i'm using serato dj 1.3 never had a issue at all, almost 100,000 files music and videos & over 300 crates, i'm on a mac