The participation trophy?

nm

....gonna need you to elaborate on that good sir.

THIS!

Ah I see where this is going. Flame on gents!

Thats an actual short answer to your question. If you dont know what it means, I bet google will be able to explain.


but yeah, lets have a discussion



nm

I'm pretty sure it relates to "You get an A effort for trying, kid." Something of that nature lol.

If Michael Jordan were to play in some beat up payless shoes compared to his trademark shoe line or similar shoes, would he still not be a great player? Maybe it's an old school thing and I haven't been doing this long enough lol but I always thought great equipment didn't mean great talent and vice versa.

No ones going to give MJ shit if he shows up in a beat up pair of dirty chucks?

doubt that

He would have to prove he was MJ - because his shoes would be saying otherwise.

nm

I think you misread the situation.

There isn't hate for "the new dj." There is hate for the new dj who thinks his virtualdj setup and lack of basic (pun intended) knowledge of musical theory and mixing puts him on par with those of us who have been doing this for years or decades.

New DJs come on this board all the time, and once in a while, one has questions like, "I've got virtual DJ right now, but eventually I wanna use turntables. Here's a recording of my mix, I know it isn't great, but I'd love some pointers."

Guys like that get nothing but love and help on these boards.

The guys who get the hate sound more like "Rate my mix."

*posts a mix that has beats coming in on the 2, using software that beatmatches for him but transitions still sound like shit because they are off...key clashes galore, lyrics over lyrics, etc.

We say "This sucks" which is, in this case, an adequate response to "rate my mix"

The new dj says, "Fuck you guys, bunch of haters."

Flame on.

See the difference?

Okay that's understandable then. I don't see that too often. It's typically 1 of 3 types of categories, from what I've experienced at least. The older generation category who think all new DJ's should just stop Dj-ing all together, or at the minimum must use vinyl before they are allowed to dj. Then the 2nd more modern generation who used vinyl and turntable but respect the newer kids for wanting to come in and attempt to learn the game and the ins and outs. Then the 3rd generation who gives all of us a bad rep lol bashing the older guys, thinks he is the shit, thinks hitting the sync button makes him a legit, etc.

So I guess it's all about finding a balance lol.

pull up a chair: Watchwww.youtube.com

serato.com

I think it's more of a thing against the attitude of some of the new jacks. There's a lot of cats going about this whole game doing things the wrong way. Like


I understand you're gonna have to start somewhere, but when the new cats are just starting and wanna act, for lack of a better phrase, "like their shit don't stink", then is when the animosity comes out. I can't stand the cats who act like that. Especially when they're not even that great.lol. When they are at least decent, I'll give them the benefit of the doubt that the mild success got to their heads and they have a bit of an ego. I'm not saying its a pass. It's all the cocky little pricks that give the new jack djs a bad rep.

This sums it up for me

Watchwww.youtube.com

came across this: Watchwww.youtube.com

and this was one of the top comments: 'Imagine hooking it up with Beamz.'

rotflmao

I can say one thing a good veteran dj can mix on almost any dj equipment put in front of him..

Take the laptop dj and put him in front of tt's or just plain CDs. Can he mix by ear. Does he know song structure.

When I was a noob I was real terrible. But I listened to others dj's mixes. Practiced and practiced . Had a cheap Gemini and tech belt drives...I didn't do my first gig until 2 yrs at home playing.


The new dj gets a music library off CL.......Hits sync and there an instant pro..

I believe learning how to beat match by ear....as the first thing a noob should do

Since I am feeling chatty today I'll add my two cents.

My initial treatment of a new DJ is typically based on how they answer one simple question. Why do you want to DJ? The how; I could care less (for the most part). What makes you tick. Me? I love music. Not just like I love listening to some types of music. I love music PERIOD. For me music is emotion, science, passion, mathematics, chaos and beauty rolled into a singular amazing experience. And I want to share that feeling. It's not about the scene. Not about the bar, the club, the crowds, the girls (ok the girls I'll give you that), or even the money. I want to know why you do it.

Heck, you don't even have to be the most skilled for me to respect you as a DJ. There are some DJ's even on this forum, or at least used to be, that weren't all that great but I could listen to them for hours on end.

And what Basic said above is 100% true. Come in on some rate my mix BS vs some can you give me some pointers post and you will get exactly what you ask for.

The expression game recognize game is apropos in this case. The new DJ may be JV squad, but we recognize if you are a gamer or not and will handle accordingly.

quick do's and don'ts from my perspective.

dont bug a dj at a club to watch him mix. if hes cool with it, ok, but 9/10 that booth is an office in which is for him and friends or in some cases no one or mgmt has limited his people. so you are more an annoyance. sometimes you can hit up people before hand on fb or email and ask.

dont tell everyone you are a dj if you have no paid gigs and rock house parties.

dont expect much love from older djs

dont dj out until you have someone that goes to clubs and is knowledgeable about djing here's you mix and say, 'you sound good enough to dj'

dont take someones word that you are killing it. some of my worst nights over almost 15 years of paid djing, have ended in, 'you killed it bro, you are my favorite dj'. that means nothing when you know you sucked. however, ive dj'ed long enough to know when i was off a little more than i would have liked to be. some people dont and pat themselves on the back. then they still arent very good.

DO - just go listen, dont watch the dj. watch the people. listen to the flow and bounce of the dj.

DO - listen to people who spin your preferred style/genre and people that do not spin your preferred style/genre

Do - go listen to old djs. see how they do it, compared to the younger guys. understand that it may not work, but also understand you may play to older, more educated crowds.

Do - dispel every bit of advice you have been given and see if it can be done in a different way. i.e. if someone says you need to mix quick, 1 verse, 1 chorus, and out, try to play a whole song(and keep the energy). if someone tells you to never touch the record, touch it and see why they said that. using upfaders, instead of xfaders. Some people DO give good advice, others DON't, either way, dont trust someone blindly, what works for them may not work for you.

Sometimes I wish I had the technology and the equipment available when I started that new guys have today... But then I'm glad I didn't. It forced me to embrace the technology as it came while still holding to mixing on vinyl... by ear. I bought cheap equipment when it came out too - cassette decks, Gem Sound CD player, Radio Shack mixer, my dad's home stereo speakers... I did the best I could with what I could afford at the time and progressed upwards. Maybe it's just that - the progression. I see a lot of new guys starting off on crap equipment just to make a quick buck and that's where it ends for them. There is no desire to get better, invest in quality gear, or even stretch their base a bit.

Watchwww.youtube.com

fixed

Here's some new perspective. In the late 90's I was djing on dual deck CD players without bpm counters and all this new tech, but I practiced my ass off until I felt I was ready to do basic house parties. Then I got a pair of tech 12's and a vestex mixer Nd started the hard process of learning to catch the beat without pushing a button but by releasing vinyl. Then I got married and haven't touched a deck for 8 years but I always loved music,
About 3 years ago, I fell on hard times and a friend loaned me a set and told me to get back into djing for some extra cash. 3 years later, and I barely have a Sunday or Saturday night for my family.
The best advice I can give anew Dj is first to stay grounded. No matter how good professionals are, they're alwYs practicing and jamming to new beats and learning new technics. Never take criticism as offense, take it as an opportunity. LISTEN TO PEOPLE WHI YIU FEEL ARE REAL DJ's!
Now I'm using serato, either with a controller (Ddj-sx) or vinyl (my original tech 12's!) and one thing that I always avoid is ever using the sync button. I feel that by only moving the pitch slider up or down will keep it pure for me. There's more to consider but remember, you should be your own biggest critic, and always strive to be better. Believe me, people will notice you and will respect you.
This coming from a relatively new Dj who's always playing with established djs.

Well any crictism/comments/suggestions on my new mix would be greatly appreciated from you guys! I definitely screwed up on some parts but I think it's pretty decent though for the most part.

soundcloud.com

Mixtrack Pro, Serato DJ.

It stinks!

Jk

I'm only starting off with this so I can make some money and then ultimately buy the higher end equipment after I start getting some more from gigs and what not. I'm not really keen to cashing out for pioneer's and rane mixers and JBL speakers then not get any money from it lol.

I actually like this one lol feel it's one of my better ones. Not my typical genre of music but I guess you gotta be well rounded right?

Aight - no disrespect but I only made it thought the first three songs... Can't stand to listen to anymore because I'm really not trying to hear them records unless I'm getting payed to play them or whatever.... Someone else is going to have to tell you how well you did

Hahahah, understandable. Not my particular genre either. Thoughts on the 1st three songs at least?

youtu.be Issue reported:
Spam or misleading > Scams / fraud

^ Ahhhhh aha ha ha ha ha hah haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

If a new DJ truly tries to learn the basics first, practices and takes pride in his craft. I got nothing but love for him/her.

However, a DJ that just pirates his music, syncs his way to a mix and under cuts just to play in a bar/club. These DJs needs to called out and made fun of.

You know the saying, "If it were easy, everyone would be doing it" Sadly, DJ'ing has become easy and cheap to get into. Sp everyone is doing it.

^yup

cause djs these days start out planning on being a paid gigging dj.
the old school way is to approach it musician style:
you pick up an instrument because it looks like fun.
you play by yourself and with friends cause you love to play.
if you get especially good and people like to listen to you then you might start to play in front of people and if you are really really good then you might think about being a paid gigging musician. or, like most musicians you just continue to play for the love of it, maybe getting paid some or maybe not.

+1 deezlee

Ok, listened to it.

The thing that jumps out at me most is your volume levels. You don't finesse anything..all your mixes seem to be at full volume. It doesn't sound like you touch the EQ knobs ever...you might, but it doesn't sound like it, so if you are, you're not doing it right.

Couple trainwrecks during the mix, not sure why you would trainwreck using a controller and serato DJ.

If you're going to scratch, you need a lot of practice...again, volume levels...don't scratch at full volume, especially when you're not that good at it yet. There's nothing worse than amateureish scratching that is louder than the music.

The real gripe I have with this mix, though, is there's absolutely nothing special about it at all. It's just a mix of top40 songs, in no particular order, with no particular flow. At some point you decide to change BPMs and you just press play on a song that's 120bpm at the end of a song that's 105. That's fine, but if this mix is supposed to be a display of your DJ skills, there's just nothing special going on here.

That's my biggest gripe with controller DJs in general. It's the intangible. I've said this a million times on these boards, and I'll continue to say it:

I don't care how you rock a party, use turntables, a controller, a banjo, whatever...just rock the party...but I've yet to see someone who started on a controller and never used anything else be a really impressive DJ. Think of every DJ who's really DOPE, innovative, creative, etc, and nearly without exception, they started on vinyl, or learned vinyl at some point in their career.

Food for thought.

Yet to see it huh? Challenge accepted. I appreciate the feedback and criticism I will look out for those.

Also, could you point out the train wrecks so I could hear them back and make not of it for future reference? Again, thank you for the feedback!

That was very nice of Basic. Listen to him. I made notes as I listened and rather than roast you, I'll just say I agree with everything he said. BUT I will save my notes and will use them if I have to... :)

because we get asked questions like this....

No please tell me what you thought. I would appreciate it. Good (if any) and bad. My skin is thick lol I'm a big boy I'll be okay.

Off the top of my head, the call me maybe instrumental to call me maybe full song was off, as well as the transition into good feeling. I don't remember if there were others but I remember those from when I listened earlier.

Are you using sync on any of these mixes or are you using the pitch slider to mix here?

I'll have to listen to it again. I fucked up during the suit and tie scratch but I don't recall that.

I'm pitch sliding then adjusting with the jog wheel.

roar with effect mix wasnt good to the wrong part of the song

the thrift shop to young wild free trans

'we're going home' trans should a dropped until he says 'just hold on were goin home' delay or loop or tear out.

song before whistle song trns mixed vox over vox.

whistle song just delay out on the 2-3

gotta start getting out on the 3-4(with your loop/delay/tear/scratch and next song in on the 1or at least get it to drop with 4-8 bars after)

most of the songs are already stale but ok for house parties. if you are gonna play pop in most larger markets you need to have new tracks and classics, not the played out tracks.

whats my name trans.

continually getting out in the middle of a verse is bad.

one more time trans in and out.

i dont care ends i crashed my car into a bridge instead of i dont care. (too early)

thats as far as i cared to go.

anyway, good mix for a 0-12 months dj, just a lot of practice on when and where to drop (not the important drop of when in the mix the song, thats more advanced) just basic drop it on the one, end the other mix on the 4 and make it happen at the same time. use cue points and loops, prep before you mix. you are rocking parties because you are playing to uneducated crowds that know very little about djing.

I would equate it to HS. remember the nerdy and/or smart kid that had all his notes in order,made flash cards, and studied all the time? Be that dude when you dj. at least for about 10 years. straight.

I love it! Thank you for spending the time out to take a look at my mix. I'll take note to all of that. I'm not really keen to pop so I figured these would go over well with people since they are known and avowed, any good place to get music? Just google pop mix or something I'm assuming.

Again I really appreciate your feedback, definitely useful.

From where I sit, this is one of the reasons why I hate on new jocks. How can you spin if you don't even know, let alone love your music? Now I'm mad...

...can't tell if you're serious or not, but sadly enough I think that you are. Seriously though? Please spare me the, you have to feel and be one with the music....you aren't playing the music bro.....you are playing you.....because you and the music are together as whole and all that shit. Do you play every genre possible of music? There's never been a time where for a gig you've been asked to play a genre that you don't know too well? You do it just for the sake of the people paying you? If not then okay I'm in the wrong here but I seriously doubt that.

I love my hip hop, R&B and oldies/motown music. No, I don't love pop.

Any way, again, thank you for your feedback. I'll learn to become more in touch and in love with the music I spin lol as well as touching up on the other things you mentioned.

Well, you are wrong. I am not a genre whore and play quite an extensive range of music. My house is full of rock, pop, r&b, house, hip hop, country, dubstep, standards, jazz, classical music, reggae, latin, filipino...hell even show tunes. I love music. I love what I do. The best DJ's have a passion for their music.

If there was ever a time when I was uncomfortable with a type of gig I simply don't take it and recommend somebody that I know will do it better than I. That doesn't happen often, but it has. Just last year I passed on one and recommended the capable hands of our forum's very own Johnny M. I knew he would do a better job than me.

That being said I will reiterate: since you are just learning I say play what you love and you will find learning how to play it so mush easier. Stay in your lane and you won't get hurt. Safety first! Learn to do the basics consistently well before you go and have an accident in the fast lane buddy. Especially if you come here looking for advice, tips, validation, etc. Many of us here have been doing this thing for decades and don't need some kid, breath still smelling like Similac, messin' up the flow of things...

Have you read Last Night a DJ Saved My Life? www.amazon.com I highly recommend it.

I'm not saying any of this to be mean, I just want you to learn. We have enough shitty DJ's. We need more good ones. If I wanted to be mean, I would break down your mix ;-)

slick comment with the winky face...gotta love it...lol

Just an FYI this does not apply to new dj's only. Old dj's like myself get a fair share of this treatment just for using controllers even though I started on 1200 even owned the black 1210's and carried 8 long milkcrates of records everywhere I went. I feel as though I have payed homage to the craft yet I can't tell by some comments I get around on these forums. Yet I don't chalk it up to hate more so then preference.. Someone stated it best above a real dj can dj with or without the tricks of aided technology,,,,that would be me!!! Now if you can't dj with just turntables and a mixer if records are put before you then you might want to learn it, is it imperative no but at least you know you can and can carry an intelligent conversation with a Real DJ.

Funkytowntopsix: It's a mentality a lot of guys have for really no reason at all beyond blind hatred without reason. They think that we just push a button and the software does the work for us... which brings me to this:


Completely separate from the context of his take on his mix and more on point with the subject of this topic, this statement here is another example of a problem a lot of people have; and it's a problem of perception:

Just because you have a sync button available to you does not mean the program is going to mix for you. It just aligns the BPMs. That's it. There's no auto mix, no auto level, nothing. It doesn't put the songs in perfect alignment either.

It is still on you to mix correctly.

It has been five years since the debut of ITCH (and even longer since the incorporation of the feature into Traktor and Virtual DJ) and people who blindly bash the sync feature STILL don't realise this.

Not sure how you see the program matching the BPMs as 'not doing any work for you'. Virtuous work or not - it's still doing "work" for you.

Well and there is auto leveling during analyzation which works pretty well, I don't have to adjust levels too often. With vinyl you would often have to adjust the gain, and eq. Visually that's been replaced with a lot of miming or inconsequential tweaking.




correct - which is lost to many new dudes who think the software is supposed to do plenty of 'work' for you.



I don't think so. Plenty of people who bash the sync button predicted the negative effects - correctly.

nm

I suppose that's a matter of perception, and on this one, I'll agree to disagree.

In my opinion, it's no different than if someone gets "Serato-face" and pushes the pitch fader till the BPM lines up with the other deck.

The only difference is the speed in which it's done and the medium being used for physical control.


I suppose this is where I differ. I never have trusted auto-leveling and adjust my gains prefader or on the fly. I also adjust EQ in mix. After all, two bass lines conflicting with each other? Clip-Clip-Clip-Clip-Clip.


I also think this is subjective. I've seen plenty of people do events for all of $50 or for free with full sets of turntables, a mixer, an SL1 and Scratch Live. Lost an event to one of them as well when I refused to drop below a price so they took it for $50. I have no problem with that at all. It shows me the kind of person who they were and the kind of person who the event organiser was.

Granted, controllers have made the cost of entry easier. But there are still people on Craigslist everyday who sell a "FULL DJ EQUIPMENT SETUP" for all of a few hundred bucks.

I suppose I just don't see how controllers and sync supposedly maimed the industry when I can plainly see so many other factors that contributed to that.

when you have the internet and smart phones and ask where to get music, most people will doubt your commitment.

Lol the dreaded sync.... I was one of those who hated to use the sync button until I found a purpose that is. The only time I use the sync is when I am using 4 tracks.. I takes me back to the days when me and my buddy would hookup and run 4 Turntables using to mixers only difference is that I am doing it myself and he's not messing me up. Everything has it's place I only recommend that if you use sync you should no how to do it manually as well.

Its not just DJs, its alot of careers/hobbys.
theres certainly people out there that are 10x more salty than any pre-dvs DJ.

I like to use the example of a Photographer.
the photographer has changed 10 fold in the last 15 years.

people who grew up, knowing they were going to be a photographer.
they were in journal club in high school, they spent 4 years in college at 10-30k a year for
media, then went on to get an advanced education in Photography, maybe a masters.
and for a good amount of time their time, financial investment and dedication is rewarded with a excellent career, for lets just say, Time Magazine.

now, these days there are certainly new, young photographers coming up who are interested in the field... but most wont go down that road becuase the market for photographers is completely saturated by overnight amatuers.
going out and buying a photographers rig is super easy, and relatively inexpensive.
and the days of "point and shoot" are pretty much a reality.

I think the most obvious parallel we se is the NIGHTLIFE PHOTOGRAPHER.
when a real professional comes along and shoots your event every shot looks amazing, even the ugliest people look good...the DJ booth in the corner basement closet looks like hakkasan in the pictures...
then the next week we have a guy like this:
forums.pcworld.com

what do the pros use? this? ok I can buy that.... I am charging $50, I am now a PRO.

all these things have happend before.
there are plenty of guys with 10 years experience who are STILL mediocre at best on 2 1200s and a SixtyTwo...
as the bar continues to get lower for entrance, as the rates get cheaper thanks to constant undercutting, and as the market gets saturated with people are "Professionals by purchase" people have every right to be persnickety about that.

but its more important to move on after you have done your bitching and moaning about the state of things. raise your own bar and push the envelope in your market.

in the end who is REALLY to blame for the state of things?
Is it the companies for putting out cheaper and cheaper mediocre all in one solutions
(weve come quite a ways from the "dj in a box")
is it the DJs who are either ignoring the unwritten ethics in our field, or just throwing a finger to everyone....
is it the owners and manager, promoters COUNTING on these new guys to take advantage of, and get for cheap, and ride until the next one comes along?

probably a lil bit of all that Id say.
but in no field that ive been in have the old guard liked the rookies... its sort of a right of passage/

Can't argue anything you've said there J. Carl.

I can remember catching shit in the 90s for using reruns, lethal weapons and shit like that.
(never really did the funkymix/xmix thnig)

all the veterans would laugh, and give the younger guys shit for not having doubles of every record....

and I can remember saying... All you old fucks, how the hell am i gonna find doubles of White Lines (remember this was pre ebay, internet was in its infancy)

and they'd be on some shit like "cheatin with all the remix service records"
and Id get into it with em over shit like that...

Agreed - in the overall scheme of things it may be splitting hairs. But I would still qualify it as 'work' the computer is doing 'something' for you. And no, it doesn't really matter till the computer fucks up and you are at a loss because you never learned to do that 'job'. Which is also whatever to a degree.

But and again my main issue with sync is and always has been its a large step in the incremental march toward complete automation. And served as an excellent line in the sand now thoroughly walked over.

There is absolutely no argument against complete automation at this point, so again whatever.



idk auto-level works like 40 to 1 for me, and that one I adjust once or twice and its fine.


About blending with eqs tho - sounds like a feature suggestion for an 'auto eq blender'




The reason the cat with the tables took the $50 gig is he is starving and broke due to the BS market situation.

There might be plenty of factors - but I've never heard of anyone who recognizes the decline argue that cheap entry is not a major factor. DVS was the first plateau, controllers the second. I predict 'smart' algorithms will be the last.

That's kind of how it is now with equipment lol. Older guys expect the newcomers to have pioneer cdj-900's, 1200's with the rane mixer, etc. etc. and here we are with our controllers trying to make names for ourselves. I guess there will always be some bad blood between the two. Not sure why, but I suppose that's just the way it is.

One new, arrogant, self-righteous, "participation trophy" DJ shouldn't reflect everyone else. That's not right. Not every new DJ is like that. Just like every older, more seasoned DJ isn't some grandpa hating on us and trying to relive his younger days. Unity my brothers! Unity!

Watchwww.youtube.com

my sync stance has not wavered.
its easy, so damn easy.
its like dribbling in basketball.
sure the first few times u pick up a ball your not going to be Curly Neal.
but it wont take much of a commitment to learn the basics.
so, lets take dribbling out of basketball? because it so easy, and everyone can do it?

but whats always ground my gears is the "you can do SO MANY OTHER THINGS" argument
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Im still waiting for those other things...
Im not talking about from the top 20% of users who are enjoying sync functionality.
we know there will always be a handfull of people taking tech, and owning it.

but the other 80%
lets be honest, we aint seeing that next level shit they threw the flag up claiming was on deck...
and i think that's what alot of people on this side of the fence are on about,
just like people argued in the 90s for against Line EQs on mixers'
the argument was always they are a pallette to create a more impressive canvas.
but to 8/10 guys it was to drop the bass on a trainwreck they couldnt get out of the way of.

Ill co-sign Akiem's statement "a large step in the incremental march toward complete automation"

it can be that way with equipment, but really its not.

I have some younger(mid 20s) friends that dj on their computers and a busted little m audio controller with Traktor. Those guys can all dj with records and it shows because, while they can just do basic mixing with efx on traktor, they phrase and mix correctly. they keep the groove going, they don't mix vox over vox. While the aesthetic(the look) is not what most people would want to see, it doesnt matter because they're mixes are on.

ive never been a proponent of learning to mix on vinyl first, because most will never play any gigs on vinyl. but the more i think about it, the more i think it will help young djs play on controllers.

I personally never caught much heat from Oer Gs because I didn't step out of my bedroom till knew something about what I was doing. And then I started with house parties and carved my own lane building a following. So when I did step to the club I had already done the work.


Yes, every industry is changing and modernizing and whatnot - but DJis not only a 'job' it's an Art.

Damn your old !!!!! I agree with this ^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Well vinyl or not you need to learn how to mix without all of this aided stuff. I never counted beats per minute (BPM) because I just knew my music that well. Older Dj's know how to sing a song to see if they would be a close match for mix. Every now and then someone will ask me to teach them how to dj... I start them out in serato for the first hour the second hour still in but take the bpms away and cover the waves... It is at that point they understand that this is not as easy as they thought. If there was a test to see if you know the basics it would be something like that

I hated the fuck out of lethal weapons .... sill do .... I remember cats having nothing but that in their crates ......... TERRIBLE !!!!!

NM NH

those awful bootlegs in the 90's .....


NM NH

The problem is these new commers are trying to make a name for thereselves right out the gate based on nothing. You dont buy a controller from guitar center then hand out flyers as you carry it to the car. The reason the djs with the 900s, rane mixers ect ect are mad is because odds are they started on weak gear to, but they practiced and saved up and when they felt they had pro skills they bought pro gear to back it up. They didnt just run straight from the store with their new toy begging for headliner spots

You have to push play on the 1....thats it. Half of the skill is KEEPING it in beat

Watchwww.youtube.com

terrible

NM NH

THIS!

There's a reason for this and it correlates to the whole controller thing. Back in the day, to get your start as a DJ, you had to buy equipment, learn how to use it, and then build up your record collection before you could play out. You were almost forced to stay in the bedroom and practice because you just didn't have enough material to play a party.

Now you buy a controller, a macbook, and a music library, and you're "a pro" and think you can go out and "kill parties with your mixtrack pro."

Your mix wasn't bad, Trevy Trev, but at your skill level, I was still in the bedroom practicing, because I didn't think I was ready to play out yet...and I gotta be honest, I think it really helped my career, because I didn't want to go out and play a club until people would think I was dope, so I never got a public reputation as a guy who was just ok, or who could mix "sort of." When I finally started playing out, I built myself a great rep.

i.imgur.com

Two Cents of an Old Skool DJ:

You MUST start on vinyl, period.
You MUST stay in your bedroom till you absolutely know you can do it live.(this may require you seeing at least 10 other djs in public that you KNOW that you're better than.
You MUST learn some form of Scratching and juggling because even if it doesn't fit into your genre o niche, those type of turntable skills can help you in an instant if you happen to fuck up, trainwreck etc...
You MUST stay humble. There is always a DJ better than you. (Think Craze)

I've said this shit for a minute, and I know a lot of the OG's here understand this. For some reason, it just doesn't compute in my brain how you could ever go from turntables to a controller. The idea of it is like a glitch in the matrix to me. If you started this craft for the love of it, the passion, all the great reasons, how could you ever leave the turntables. I love technology too, like just try to get my 62 away from me!!! But, without my 1200's, It would be like a dried shrivelled version of what it was. All the creature comforts of a "DJ-IN-A-BOX" set up have no weight in the life of a real DJ. I don't care what all the whiny, young bitches say on this forum. You can't find me ONE great that started on a controller, or even favors one today as they're go to equipment. And by "great dj", I don't mean one of those uber famous Euro's that can drone out 128's for 6 hours at a time. To me, they may be great producers but thats just not skilled DJing.

Depending on the "events" he chooses to go to for the research, that could take all of, like, 5 weeks. lol

"Hol' up! Are you on the list?!"
- "I'm on the mortgage!"
"Alright, come on..."

I admittedly cracked up.

Everyone who matters in this forum says that to be a real dj, you gotta go back to the basics, 2 1200's and a Rane (very expensive basic equipment, lol). The true basics of djing is the love of music, the love of sharing a great beat, and the passion to make people happy and livening up their parties. When I got back into djing, I bought a controller and did it for the money (was about to loose my house and the gigs helped me stay afloat financially). But the passion was always there. Now I can't do any party (I'm mostly a mobile dj that does weddings and bar mitzvahs, etc.) without my tech 12's and all my colleagues and even my partner says thar I'm crazy for lugging around this heavy stuff when Icould be using my ddj-sx. But to me, using a ddjsx is work and once this becomes work, I wouldn't be able to do it the same.
It's funny, a controller "dj" told me he despises all the hate he gets, so I told him to learn on my turntables. First thing he asked me was where's the sync button, followed by, we'll hen how do you speed it up or slow it down, smh!!!

Don't get my wrong, I'm not hating on controllers, or controller DJs. I just bought a DDJ-SR and used it last night at a bar gig.

I'm just still waiting to be truly impressed by someone who started on a controller and never touched a pair of turntables...that's the bottom line.

But then again, I'm just some dickhead on the internet, so who cares if I'm impressed or not.

At the end of the day, if you're having fun, rocking parties, and making money, more power to you.

Both valid questions for someone who's never used tables/CDJ's before. Why do ya'll get so shocked/offended that some people don't know? Seems no different from someone used to driving automatic getting into a stick shift and asking "where's 'drive'?".

When I was looking for an alternative controller to my Xone DX I was shocked how many of them had near-unusable pitch resolution that actually necessitated having a sync button just to hold a mix properly. Made me love my DX all the more.

This is an excellent point, and one many probably have not thought about.


This is exactly what turned me off from the Numark NS6.

One of a few things anyway...

To be fair controllers have only been around a few years, i havent met any people who started in turntables who impress me in that amount of time

Nah, controllers go back long enough. My ex-roommate had a controller he used with VirtualDJ 10 years ago now. That's plenty of time.

what i think is really annoying with newb djs these days is whether they're on 1200s, cdjs, vdj, beamz whatever the fuck, a lot of them feel entitled to be djing at a venue immediately. play some house parties, frat parties, stay in your damn bedroom for awhile!!!!!!!! over saturating the club scene with under cutting, under experienced djs who feel entitled to main room headline gigs have fucked up the pay scale for a lot of really good djs. don't get me wrong, there are the gifted few that actually have picked up djing quick in a year and are pretty good at it, but there is a lot of stuff to learn that only comes with experience and time. moral of the story is slow your roll! if you're good and passionate about djing your time to shine will come.

I apologize Trevy Trev as my post kinda started a controller side bar but it is relevant to why most people hate new dj's. Sad that if a new dj hit the set with 2 1200 he will be treated differently than one who arrived on a controller.. I do want to make one thing clear I love my TT's and I know how to use them as I started out on them 1985 even when I purchased the cdj 500 in the 90's I used them hell I still use them (1210's). I admit I like I don't have to buy needles when I use a controller.

I just hate when people try to down controllers when in fact they are using one themselves. If you use a rain mixer, s1,s2,s3, searto in conjunction with anything on the other end you are using a controller. How can you take part of the technology and embrace it and despise the rest. Let's be real if you started out on TT like myself you really know how much you can do with a controller if you ever played with one that is. I was taught by my dj teacher that creativity is what will make you stand out above the rest,,,, the very reason I purchase doubles so I could do remixs of songs with accapellas. FYI as far as controllers goes the DDJ-SX is not a cheap controller by any means.....I get that some of these controllers are cheap ways for dj's to hit the scene I get the whole concept as they are our competition. I am not concerned as my talent level is what keeps me getting gigs and they are one of the reasons I get them as these new kats suck so bad they but all have a life shelf of 4 months if trying to do gigs outside the bedroom.

In the end dog the judge the dj's for their level of skill but don't hate on technology. Nobody will pay the dues of the dude's who started out on turntables. Endless days of searching and going to record stores, listing on those headphones to see if it was a hit, carrying crates, buying needles, making you own slip mats, buying doubles and records jumping during the party when the table gets bumped. No none of these new jack will know what it's like but hey time moves on along with technology. I know very few oldschool dj's who still buy vinyl and dj there whole set with it... If you want to go hard on controllers then you should be doing it the oldschool way,,,,and trust me I know the oldschool way no controllers no serato just a bunch of crates of records any old mixer and some turntables. That would mean you would have to go to a record store...:) Oh and you can't use vidoes we dare not use any technology that can make us better.

@ auttomattik..... I know you can't see it but it's so much convenient to take a controller than to take 1200s weight along is what made me get a controller. You don't need TT to do every gig and I can do more with a controller maybe because I don't scratch like a dmc guy is why I can easily use a controller and feel good about it . A guy tried to get on me about not using my 1200s when he was using his 1200 with dicers and using serato.. Didn't make sense to me.... Take a two very good dj's one on controller and one turntable's hide them so people can't see they will sound the very same nobody will know which is on TT,,,, except one of the two dj's will be more creative,,,, Just saying before there was Netflicks there was the dollar movie...I don't miss the dollar move..... Peace.

Want to know what's funny? Some of the guys giving controller DJs hell, are the same CDJ DJ's who caught hell from Vinyl DJs when CDJ's and Digital started to hit.

As usual, I'll default to my usuals:

*different strokes for different folks
Just because 3 of 5 djs don't or do scratch Doesent mean the solutions available are the same... There is advantages/disadvantages to most rig
And to think for a second there is a be all; end all solution for the turntablists to the minimal tech house dj is just a bit blind.

*dont treat forum posts as gospel
(This goes double for me ;-) )
No one, NO ONE IS THE AUTHORITY!
It depends on how relative it is to the poster

I'd i started a thread "hey I'm look into Jungle and intelligent d&b"
Surely some who is sorta familiar with d&b would come in with some sort of precession on gear, surely similar to theirs.
The same goes for mAny aspects of convo's here.
There's plenty if EDM DJs looking for a solution, and as sure as the sun rises you will have someone say, you have to have a 07pro or a 57 with some 12z
Well, I play EDM in MY sets so...



funky, 9/10 times I am completely on the same page as you,
But this is one of those 1/10
I'll certainly concede of you are NOT manipulating the control tone in any sense
Then yes, you might as well ditch your 1200s/cdjs and goto a controller
It's a waste of time, effort, money and even features (non-drifting pitch)
I'll even say that the hid mode is the bastard cousin of controllers.
Aside from the performance aspect (mostly turntablists/scratch djs)
Until SeRato DJ takes over completly there's an ethical factor
ThAt we all know separates a controller from a pair of 1200s
There is no way (today) to auto sync with 1200s
There is no all-in-1 controller solution that works with scratch live

And I'd wager that is a fair line in the sand that separates someone ( be it on paper)
From being someone that uses a controller vs 1200s

Granted, all this will change very soon when SeRato dj goes live for the Rane devices
And there will be a whole new world of BS convos

Wow thank you!!!! Somebody with some sense who gets it lol thank you man you've given me hope. Couldn't agree more with everything you just said right there.

The convo hasn't really changed much in the last 10-15 years... only the names of the devices have changed. Sync has been around since the early 2000's.

www.adjaudio.com (for example)

Man, y'all better leave Thundercat alone....

He's a feisty one......I like that.

1.bp.blogspot.com

I don't exactly know what that picture represents, so....I'll just back up outta this here thread...mkay?

+1 ^^^^