Whoever bought that mixer s gonna be TIGHT when they hear the news lol

DEFINITELY! LMAO!!!!!

The 57 has plenty of life in it for someone that doesn't want or need to update their software.

I'm going to guess that before too many years, the old school Serato software and hardware will have some niche cachet to it.

Anyone seen using it will be known to NOT be using "sync"...

True indeed. That "Sync" button is definitely going to be a problem.

The Sync button usage is definitely a choice, users will be able to disable or enable it - simple as that :)


Cheers

Mak T

But if an informed club-goer sees the DJ using Scratch Live and a 57 (or SL-1), they will KNOW that the DJ can't possibly be using sync at all.

Yes, it will matter.

I'm keeping my 57

NM NH

It depends on how you look at it, but also understand that technology is advancing and changes that we have made today is for the better.

Scratch Live will live on! You still will be able to use it with your hardware and it will still be available from our website.

Cheers

Mak T

I'm thinking of buying one (again, haven't had one for awhile) in what will of course be a lemming-like sell of of the units over the next few months.

People in the club could care less whether a dj uses sync or not. I prefer not to use it but if you're doing your job as a dj and keeping the crowd rocking no one will care what you're using they'll be too busy having a good time.

It is NOT always better to offer the option of dumbing things down.

Unless, of course, you turn the entire GUI a bright shade of pink when Sync is enebled. :-)

I do, however, recognize the *reasoning* for the decision, your company having to of course operate in a highly competitive environment with at least one shamelessly ethics-challenged competitor.

Isn't Serato DJ crashing with big music libraries? If this is the case, there goes the stability factor of why they merged both softwares

nm

Hopefully, by February they will have all of that straightened out!

Have faith.

Hoping does not pay the bills

NM NH

if you're in a club and you're concerned if the dj is using sync, you got bigger issues lol

My understanding is that the crashing is from in-use RAM exceeding some specific amount (1.8gb I think)...and affects both SL and SDJ.

Since SDJ and all its extra features probably take up more memory than SL regardless of library size, it makes sense that people with SDJ are more likely to run into the issue.

That's my understanding anyway, someone please correct/append if not accurate.

Sl and dj were redesigned from the ground up with more robust and reliable architecture....isnt that what they said about serato video to.......

Then use scratchlive

Im not getting rid of my 57. That will be a nice backup/2nd setup mixer

I basically made my 61 my back-up, and with Dicers, I have all the control away from my laptop that I need.

I may end up adding a SL2-3 box to it if needed.

I'm still keeping my 57. I'm a bit glad that I didn't install my innofader on the 57 since I bought it a couple weeks ago. Time to invest in a 62 and add that innofader. Don't really care much about the 64 or the new pio mixer.

Why people trippin' out? You don't have to upgrade from SSL to Serato DJ, you could stay on Scratch Live 2.5 / SL1 / Rane 57 mixer forever...if you don't want 8 cue points, Sync, extra effects, bells & whistles, then just stay using what you got now, it's really not that complicated and not the end of the world.

that's the thing - this is no different than having to upgrade your laptop when the newest version changes the minimum system requirements and your laptop doesn't cut it anymore.

no one is forcing you to upgrade and if you want to use the latest shit and toys, then you'll have to shell out and replace your 9 or 7 year old hardware. If you didn't need the bells and whistles before, then you don't need DJ now.

The fact that your ancient (in technology terms) gear is still supported now is more a testament to Serato and their dedication to their support for old gear than anything else.

The simple fact is that the SL1 and 57 are outdated even in terms of pure sound quality and if you want to keep using inferior hardware then you can - you'll just have to settle for the status quo in terms of features in scratchlive. They've given us 40 updates for free over the last 9 years, I think you would have gotten your money's worth by now.

i dont think anyones tripping over the money aspect as much as this latest move signals a definate shift in the overall constant mission statement that serato clung to. The big brass at serato was always solid about serato carrying on the tradition of DJing and on multiple occasions said they would never take this route because serato was for real DJs and all about the art of carrying on the tradition of emulating the true school ways. This course of action paints a clear picture that the pursuit of true DJing is no longer their goal and their goal is the compete in the gimmik game with traktor and try to accomplish the goal of making every person on the planet a dj skills be damned.

pretty sure that mission statement was dropped as soon as they started going the controller route.

Again, you don't have to use sync, and if you truly want to "keep it real" you can keep using scratchlive or better still, dust off the old vinyl.

Thats the point and the "you dont have to use it" argument dosent hold up, in my area alot of promoters instantly disqualify anyone using a controller or sync from gigs because the assunption is they are green and will end up fucking things up.....now were all on the same program, wonderful

if you're losing gigs because the promoter thinks you use sync (even if you don't), then you need to up your self-promotion game more.

I love how "keeping it real" in 2015 is going to be using 2 year old software and 11 year old hardware.

I love how djing in 2015 is going to be a guy at a desk dragging and dropping songs in a playlist for drinks

that's already happening in a lot of spots.

Didn't think of that, but I've already seen people bragging how they'll stay with their SL-1 and SSL because they don't want sync in their software.

Surprised we haven't seen a "So when are Serato going to offer a trade-in for my SL-1" like we did when the SL-3 came out and heaps of people seemed to expect they were entitled to a free/discount upgrade from the SL-1.

man, the SL1 sounds like shit tho - I would think people would want to upgrade just for the better sound quality.

Does that make it acceptable, should we be encouraging that momentun?!

Besides beyond the sync argument, which i give the fuck up on djings dead anyway, seratos core revolved around being rock solid, no gimiks unlike traktor....the last product serato rebuilt from the ground up to improve stability and increase updates was vdj..m.hows that workin out for everyone, anyone seen a single fucking update?

Before all sl had to do was read timecode off a limited range of products made by a single company, now it has to read what willl soon be hundreds of controllers, timecode, 3rd party fx packs, different operating systems and plugins, ect.......congrats gents you just walked into traktor 5 years ago Now that i gaurentee stabilitys shot and we are officially in the gimmik game you may as well go to traktor whos lightyears ahead of the game in that dept and already delt withvtheir stage 1 problems

Im offically taking bets on when serato will start selling skin packs for the software....mabye some ringtones

That's the thing - it's already happening and you can't stop the wheels of progress. No amount of whining is going to stop Serato from going in the direction they have chosen. You can only keep the traditions alive by promoting it, killing it in your sets, and teaching some n00bs the right way to do it.

Are there kids that don't give a shit? Of course, but every so often, you'll find some kids trying to learn the right way and you can focus on encouraging that instead of trying to tear down anyone else cause we all know that's completely ineffective.

I just came across this vid of a 14 year old kid: Watchwww.youtube.com - encouraging to know there are some kids wanting to learn it properly.

At my local record shop, there's what looks like a 13 year old who's there every week digging for classic breaks and hip hop.

When I give DJ lessons, I make sure to teach them how to beatmatch on vinyl before even touching a laptop.

Proper and traditional DJing is going to become a niche just like vinyl nights are niche now, but you can throw your hands up and bitch about it or you can try to do something about it even from a local level.

Seriously guys, is this really bothering you that much? They've already said if you don't want to use sync, you don't have to. You can even make it completely disappear from the interface, so onlookers can see that you're a "true DJ".

This goes back to the old argument about how sync makes DJs lazy and lets anyone do it. It's both true and untrue. DJs can choose to be lazy and let the software play one track after another in sync, or they can take advantage of it and free themselves up to do more creative things with their DJing.

In any case, this is the direction Serato is going. If you don't like it, don't upgrade.

I know Serato had a long-standing message of "staying true to the art of DJing", but I really don't think adding new features will completely destroy that mission. I think it's about keeping up with the times, with the changing technology, and the increasing demand of DJs who want to be able to do more with their performances than playing two tracks at the same time.

PR gold!

sync is wack any way you look at it .......

NM NH

Sync isn't for everyone.

its for lazy folks

NM NH

What does NM NH stand for?

I'm behind on my Internet lingo.

it's not for everyone

NM NH

5years and and have yet to get an answer on even one single creatice oppritunity this feature provides

No misquote no homo

Please by all means show me one single example outside of hawtin, craze, and shiftee of a dj using this to get more out of their performance

Can't speak for anyone but myself.
I've used it to do live mashups and bootlegs.
Example - playing one track, scratching/playing an acapella over it, then dropping into another track.
It sounds better when I can let the two tracks stay in sync while I focus on scratching the acapella; when I mix in the second track I know it will be on beat.
One of these days I'll upload a video to my YouTube of me doing it, will probably make more sense than the way I just described it.
Point is, there are ways to use it that aren't pure laziness. I know not everyone will use it that way, but I choose to use my powers for good :)

This thread needs a kitchen sync.

Watchwww.youtube.com

I don't want to misrepresent myself. 90% of the time I'm playing in a club with two Technics and a DJM900 (no sync), and every now and then I bring my DDJ-SX to a club and let some stuff sync when I'm doing more complex routines like the one I described.

Anyways, back to the thread - I'm also selling my 57 and most likely picking up a 62.

Is the Serato is a company and they need to keep their business afloat a thing even being considered, or is the argument just all against sync.

Hi ... im old .... i hate sync .... i been a serato user since 04 .....

NM NH

Same here... still have my OG SL1 box with the white logo...


























...which I'm selling for $600 once I figure out how to exploit this "anti-sync legacy edition" angle :D.

my 57 is limited edition because it does not have a "STINK" BUTTON

NM NH

I've also been using SSL since it's inception. I feel a little betrayed. Sync is not the issue for me, it's the fact the company was founded as and created on the DVS platform. This now, is no longer their focus. I'm sure they have done many market studies which indicate that most of the new users are controller based, which sucks, but reality. So, therefore to stream line the company, they are making there controller software multifaceted. Which, in my eyes is just like saying "let's keep these old fucks that still use vinyl, around for a few more years until they die or buy controllers". I agree w/ Bezzle, this is some stupid Traktor bullshit ploy to keep up with the Jones', which further alienates the DVS user. I can't begrudge them making, to them what seems like a smart business move. But, the problem lies in the fact the 2 softwares already exist. They could continue to keep them seperate and be tops in both markets, but they had to play favorites. They have chosen their favorite child, Serato DJ. SSL will be Sloth, chained in basement waiting for Chunk to throw him a Baby Ruth. Unfortunately, Serato will quickly be running out of Baby Ruths.

DJing sucks, and it's almost dead, this shit is just another bullet. I think, Serato, ya dun fucked up.

All that could be done without sync

yep..... they just lazy or lack the skills to pay them bills

NM NH

I can understand what you saying but what makes you and from the reply of others feel that they don't care about DVS users. If that was the case dont you guys think that they would have not even bothered to add it as they are doing now. Also with support till 2015 anyone buying laptops for the next two years will still have scratch live available with support. Plus they only make the software, rane will still be making there high end hardware as will pioneer and anyone else who decides to make hardware. So there will always be options for the pro users.

Agree to disagree.

Use the tools available to you to put on a great show.

if they didn't care about DVS users, they would have stopped scratchlive at 2.5 and said "sorry guys, controllers are the future - no more updates to scratchlive"

personally, I'd rather see their whole team focus on one piece of software instead of it being split like it has been and one or both of them suffering (as they have been - especially SSL). If that means sync has to be added for me to get better, more stable, and more feature-laden software from my program of choice, then so be it. I'm not going to use it.

DJ is almost identical to Scratchlive in layout and function with the exception of some annoying issues. Hopefully, they will address those issues.

Wow! You guys took my thread and made it way more than I thought it was going to be! And that's not a bad thing at all! Bottom line for me is, I've been spinnin since '80, no amount of effects and gimmicks is going to take away that many years of legit spinning. I just wanted to ensure that I will continue to have the most up to date software, and luckily for me I got rid if the right mixer that will ensure that I will.

I have to laugh a little, you guys are worried about Sync, what do we do about the DJ's that don't even know what BPM is?

But that's just it. With sync, they don't have to know what BPM is! Lol!

HAY GUYZ - HOW DO I MIX THIS 100 BPM TUNE WITH THIS 140 BPM SONG?

lol

I'm interested to see how many people will trade up from their TTM57 to a Serato DJ-compatible mixer/setup, or how many will stick with what they have now.

It's totally personal preference - if you want to keep it real and stick with Scratch Live, or if you want the new tricks and upgrade to Serato DJ.

I'm thinking like 4 months from now, when I'm in a club's DJ booth and I glance at the DJ's laptop screen, will the played tracks be green or blue? We'll see. :)

57 is staying with me,never will be sold.


As the CEO stated and others had said, disable sync if you dont want to use it...boom problem solved. Serato is a business and has to keep up with the competition and like any business it's about bottom line. If they were to be "keeping it real" they could end up like Blackberry or Nokia. What would happen if one day you try to log onto Serato.com and you get a 404 error message or a parked page?

Didnt they just do that? Lol

So you think adding sync, seperate package 3rd party fx, slip mode, ect ect to your software is going to make it more stable, please tell me more about how adding tooooons of new code increases stability

Well those features are already in SDJ, what they are adding is mainly dvs control, once SDJ is out and everyone who thinks sync is the a satanic offspring will turn it off and it is never to be seen again. And everyone wins.

Yes they are already in sdj, which is less reliable that scratchlive which does not have them....how do scratchlive users win by being herded to a less stable platform

By still using scratch live, all serato has announced is there plans on what they are doing. As of today SDJ is unstable. The release for current scratch live users who own the products which will be compatible will have the choic of moving over for free in 5 months. Which should give them enough time to iron out any kinks that currently exist.

Just realized i used there instead of their.

And also choic instead of choice.

Kinda like they were gonna iron out those kinks in video by reprogramming serato video from the ground up....which caused a ton of new issues that sill havent been fixed...hows that workin out

I dont remember when serato video was released or being worked on and whats wrong with it dont use so cant say much. But that and the problems with sdj are why its going to be good that sdj and then with time serato video become the focus of what they are doing. Within the last couple years they had to have people work on, scratch live, itch, SDJ Intro, video & now SDJ. Not sure how many people are coders in the serato office but i would assume based on errors users had with some of the software they were biting more then they can chew. Seratos been stable because for a while it was pretty much it. Now if SDJ becomes the core focus of their efforts they can have every employee tackling issues instead of having small groups working on multiple projects. Also with the fact that they will still offer tech support and fix small bugs in scratch live from now till 2015 is a nice enough gesture on its on. Still going to have the rock solid offering of scratch live but also with a choice of their newer software.

c'mon bezzle - you work in software - you know exactly what the benefits are to not having the team split among too many sku's.

Again, if scratchlive works, then keep using it - maybe 5 or 6 years down the road you'll have to revisit it again when the latest OS upgrades no longer support 2.5 or whatever version they end with and by then you'll be able to cop an sl2 for $200 or something.

also, I've been using DJ for a bunch of gigs recently generally 6-8 hour sets and it's been pretty rock solid.

Yes there's the large library issue which is also in SSL and Itch but there are issues with large libraries in just about anything.

yes but after announcing dvs support in DJ.

you make a good point. pretty much every club goer comes to my dj booth and asks to see whether im using sync, what dvs, and what kind of underwear and cologne im wearing.

one night i used traktor and someone thought i was using sync, word got around the club and the entire club cleared. LESSON LEARNED!!!

HAHAAHAHAHAH! Which font makes that laugh look sarcastic?

Great... With sync I can now do 1000000000000 other things... So much time on my hands....

NM NH

that jesus isn't going to pose itself

if you need sync to do all this elaborate dj stuff than you need to practice doing it with out because guess what folks....... IT can be done WITH OUT THE SYNC BUTTON!!! so go practice

NM NH

I wonder if theres a large amount of members on here that lost gigs to people using sync and controllers. I feel that the guys who have gigs and arent newbies poses better work ethic and will outlast the bandwagon newbies.

NEVER lost a gig to any one ... always left in my terms..... so SYNC IT for all i care!!! I WONT be part of such lazy behavior

NM NH

I know it may not be the case for everyone, but i feel that those who rely on sync in order to mix probably wont make it as a dj gigging anywhere anyway so regardless of sync or not i doubt that they will advance enough and probably look at it as some kind of game so they dont take it serious anyway and theyll taper off sooner or later.

All of you guys angry, worried, and uncomfortable about a Sync button in conjunction with DVS is absolutely nothing short of hilarious.

Another example of first world problems.

Hey auttomattik,

DVS is definitely still our focus, in fact you may have heard that we are supporting two new DVS capable mixers in Serato DJ ;)

With DVS and controllers all in one code base, we can faster deliver new features and bug fixes to all users.

Also some existing features which were only available to controller owners (e.g. Slip Mode), will now be available for DVS and are a lot of fun to use.

Don't worry about DVS, it is not dead!

I'm glad I could elicit a reaction from a staff member. I clearly am not a programmer, so my opinion comes soley as a long term loyal customer and a DJ. The one thing that rings to me as bullshit in what you said is that "DVS is still your focus". If this were the case, why wouldn't you intergrate the new features into SSL, your orginal DVS, more stable, long standing platform? Then inturn, make SSL, controller capatible? I'm not worried about whether or not DVS is dead, because there are other options. I just feel for those who have remained loyal users, to take away compatiblilty of the 57 and SL 1 without being given an option to retrofit somethng to make them compatible, are getting the shit end of the stick. I'm voicing this from the perspective of someone who owns a 62 and won't be affected. I feel Serato should that the DVS community is not comfortable with big changes, so backlash is natural. I also understand you have given us DVS users time to vent and deal with the changes.

Bottom line is, it feels like a ploy to sell new equipment and a new program, to the disadvatage of the current DVS user.

So wait. What's the difference between making SDJ DVS compatible and making SSL controller compatible (which it already was on some level)?

Is your gripe is with which "brand" they chose to stick on the label?

No, my gripe is, if your focus is DVS, why dump your DVS program for a new one? I guess that wasn't clear. I'm a vinyl guy, I haven't spent a milli-second looking at Serato DJ, so I have no idea what it looks like, what it does. Why would I? I use turntables, and supposedly that is still their focus, vinyl. It just seems to be untruthful or a convienent story for why the two programs are combined.

Yes. So basically if they'd said "Serato DJ is becoming integrated with ScratchLive" and retained the Scratchlive name instead of Serato DJ (thus "ending" Serato DJ), you'd be satisfied.

Si?

No, I feel you have a reading comprehesion issue.

My point, Don't serve me shit and call it steak. It's about the story being told about the action, more so than the action itself. I don't know how else to explain it, other than it sounds phony.

I remember making a point about Traktor and the DJ's they hire to sponsor their product, and how i felt they were great representives of their product. Well, I got my ass handed to me by the forum about how basically anyone will say anything for money and I shouldn't believe anything. So now apply that sentiment to Serato; there is some corperate figure head explaining to us why this is sooooo great and we should be so excited about these changes. So I should believe that is better for me? After every fuck on here told me I was idiot of believong what Craze told me. So if Jazzy Jeff said it, it would be bullshit because he's paid by Serato? Or is just Serato dick-riding? This is all held together by a loose connection of the two, but my point is, I don't buy it, and I don't like being told what is better for me when it's really better for someone else.

So you're more concerned with the explanation than the action itself? It makes perfect sense to me that they would want to combine their resources into working on/updating a single program.

So when you preface your argument with:



and then say:



...how do you even know what programming steps are involved with implementing the integration in the first place?

...it makes me wonder what explanation -would- satisfy you. Is it that you want SDJ and SSL to continue being separate programs even if they have the same features?

Again, what's the difference between adding SSL features to SDJ and adding SDJ features to SSL?

I'm reading this and wondering the same thing, especially considering that Serato themselves mentioned continuing support for SSL would be convoluted and that it will be beneficial from a programming standpoint to instead focus development on Serato DJ.

DJs be acting like 2015 is tomorrow haha

I really don't won't this to keep going, I'm not a total naysayer and I've been a huge proponent of Serato and SSL since the beginning. Like I said, I know nothing about SDJ. People, for the last 3 days, keep talking about how unstable SDJ is. SSL doesn't have those issues. Beyond that, I understand the time frame of these changes, which I have also stated repeatedly. I believe it is within my rights to state the opinion of disbelief. I feel it's about corporate dollars not positive change. My opinion is not that of a purist persay, just a loyal consumer. Sync and other technologies don't bother me and don't factor in my opinion.

I've never had a problem with the last couple versions of SDJ (1.2.1 and 1.3) - in fact until 2.5 of SSL came out, it felt more stable.

That said, I only have a collection of about 20,000 songs rather than in the hundreds of thousands.

I do video and audio and my library easily goes beyond 20K and I don't want to start worrying about how many files I have with any program.

As I see it now, Serato DJ isn't worth the worry.

nm

I think the large library issue also involves the number of crates you have also. I have about 60,000 tracks (including a Shit ton of loops and one shots, not that many songs). But I only have 50 or so crates. I don't have any issues, other than a very rare drop out.

A lot of the SDJ problems stem from shitty computers, and people using unsupported processors, etc

sync to me takes too much thought. i rather just dable with the pitch bend, jog wheel, or pitch control.

As I said elsewhere, my understanding of the SDJ "large library problems" is that it's memory-related, and common to Scratch Live also. Since, all other things equal, SDJ probably takes up more memory when running, SDJ simply exposes that problem earlier and more often than Scratch Live.

There is no inherent instability to SDJ. The database issue affects ALL Serato live-performance products (ITCH, SDJ, and SSL - count them, all).

That problem is related to a memory issue in which ITCH, SSL, and SDJ all crash at ~1.8GB of RAM usage.

Outside of that, it's no more "unstable" than any of the other options on the table.


No argument here. Your opinion is your opinion.


Thank you for being sensible. To a lot of DJs here, one mention of the word sync and people go insane.



It's a combination of a lot of things, but it all leads to the same eventual crash at ~1.8GB of RAM usage by a Serato application.


This. This all day. In the case of a significant lot of those SDJ issue reports you saw pop up after the release of 1.3, all of them were using AMD processors.


This is exactly where the problem is; and it's also why ITCH users were subject to it too (this problem has been reported by user's in that forum for the past 2 years). Considering the memory usage of these applications are much higher than SSL's due to their internal mixing engine when using different controllers (with the exception of the Numark V7), users are more prone to it as the base application will use a lot more memory with a controller attached than SSL will with a SL1, 2, 3, or 4 attached.

"That problem is related to a memory issue in which ITCH, SSL, and SDJ all crash at ~1.8GB of RAM usage."

This is the first time I read this. Can you point me to a link as to where this information is coming from?

And, if it does affect all softwares, then why is the same library having no issues if used with ScratchLive but crashes the program if used with Serato DJ?

nm

I'll say it 6...... People quit defending the obvious.... Serato DJ is not up to par with scratch live.... NO HID support, library issues, and the darn thing has sync. Itch was a disaster, they just put a new GUI on it and added EFX. How is the midi mapping for serato dj.. I read is buggy as well... Take all your bells and whistles off and focus on the main issues!!!

NM NH

Read the topic in the Serato DJ forums. Every single user who has participated in that topic crashes at around the same point in memory usage.

As for SSL, I'll repeat it again: Lower starting point for memory usage. Connect an NS7 with ITCH or SDJ, and an SL4 with ScratchLive but don't load a library. Note the vast difference in the amount of memory used from jump before a library is even loaded.

Enough said.


- Subjective
- Irrelevant as of the next releases (and aren't you guys constantly complaining HID either half-works or doesn't work?)
- Library problems affect ITCH, SSL, and SDJ. Point moot.
- Sync? Seriously, we're on the final quarter stretch to 2014 and people are still carping about Sync? Get over it.

So why when I did try to load SD it crashed right away????

Same library open up just fine in SL????


Don't come at me with AMD processors and different hardware plugged in....

NM NH

It's like talking to a brick wall...
serato.com

Go read.

"As for SSL, I'll repeat it again: Lower starting point for memory usage. Connect an NS7 with ITCH or SDJ, and an SL4 with ScratchLive but don't load a library. Note the vast difference in the amount of memory used from jump before a library is even loaded."

So a program with less features already starts out with a higher memory usage? What's going to happen when they add all the new features? Will it get worse?

nm

Personally I'm just hoping they revamp the way the library works in the next release, it being a known issue and all.

That's an entirely valid question and why we have been telling them they need to fix this now as we see this problem becoming huge when SSL users with large libraries start coming over to SDJ.

Cool. We are on the same page. Thanks Papa Midnight for the link.

Is the current threshold 1.8 or 1.2?

nm