It's basically working now in development... so that's promising. :-)

YES!
man, that's a BIG relief...do you have an ETA on the public release for that or if u want any beta testers for it?

well it's bug fixes only at the moment in terms of releases I'm afraid, so no ETA yet, but obviously this is the place to stay posted on developments...

I think that a first thing is to better manage the BPM Tag in mp3 files for the moment. All my mp3 are analyzed with a BPM tag but not compatible with the way SSL read it. For this point, Josh did you receive my mp3 sample i've sent to Serato support with BPM tag that doesn't work under SSL?
Thanks!

just make sure there is a way to turn this auto BPM feature off (i hate software auto BPM esp. when there are a lot of vocals), the best way to get BPM from software is when u "TAP" in the beat yourself... auto BPM is hit or miss and u can never rely on it...u shouldnt add it SSL unless u are tapping the a key to simulate the beat ... and where BPM is displayed it should auto adjust in relation to the vinyl speed.

We are putting in both auto and manual (tapping) beat detection. Some people like the displayed BPM to be pitched, others like it being unpitched, so this will be a preference.

tashafa, I agree that any BPM feature should be optional, but I have to say, that there are indeed a couple of apps out there which detect the bpms quite well, for example flatfeetpeets recordboxeditr for FS (yeah I think I know you from FS forum, right?). At least they run well on 4/4 tunes and hiphop.

T-One what BPM software are you using?

I use PCDJ to scan my songs and I can read the BPM field of the id3 tag in both MP3 Collector and PCDJ RED.

But when I load a song in SSL, it only shows the BPM as a whole number, and then the BPM field loses the 2 decimal places it had. Any thoughts on this issue Josh/Steve?

I'm using mixmeister....not too bad...

"We are putting in both auto and manual (tapping) beat detection. Some people like the displayed BPM to be pitched, others like it being unpitched, so this will be a preference."- steve w.

You guys are the best... so when is this feature coming? next update? (after the "pitch changing when u get past the 8min mark" update)

good a tapper would be appriciated as I've suggested awhile ago. :-)

Hell yeah, a tapper is the way to go!

I like the idea of auto or the option of tapping bpm, as I tend to enter a ton of new tunes at a time, and having it done auto would be great initially, then being able to go back and tap for the ones that come out inaccurate to get them correct...

scratchlive.net

I am almost embarrassed to admit it, but I downloaded Traktor 2.6.2.111 and I use it to 'analyze' all my tracks in my music directory. The traktor 'analyze' will automatically figure out your BPM's and tag it. The BPM's seem accurate enough and it saves me time in having to manually tag each MP3.

Quite a heavy program just to use for BPM taggging... but it works...

MAC OS X.

You bought it just for BPM'ing? Isnt that a little overkill? Or are you a millionaire? :)

i didnt buy it...

no further comments about money...hehe

I *obtained* it to try it out and see its features...pretty slick features on Traktor 2.6.2.

From trying it, i learned that it gets the BPM of the tracks and writes the tag for it, automatically.

Pretty cool if you got tons of MP3's.... although Im sure there some other MAC program that does the same 'automatic' function... I dont have one yet though.

I hope Rane/Serato can possibly adopt and improve some of Traktor's functions and integrate in SSL.

where my V1.5.....(?)

I tend to just figure that the inaccuracy is normally that the software has doubled the bpm due to extra bass notes so I just divide by 2 to get my bpm for those inaccuracies and manually type it back in. Of course I use common sense and check its speed then with another record of the "same BPM category" if they match then hey I was right on the money. of course I never really used to mark my records with bpm rather I just used to think of each song as belonging to a slow, medium, fast or fast dance speeds. So i'm used to not requiring such close accuracy. This tends to get me in trouble every now and then in the super slow areas and on occasion in the super fast areas where there tend to be less songs near each other. I'd end up pulling up like 3 vinyl in a row quickly checking them and finding em too fast/slow etc... then add mental note (this is faster than I thought etc So having my bpms will be a bit of a luxury :) making life even easier. But basically use common sense and listen to the track, by now your ears should be able to approximate what bpm category the files will fall under... Does the number give sound like it may actually be 2x faster than your prediction? then it probably is :)
Hiphop Mixtapes www.djemir.com

So what really happened about this?

June 30, 2004, 3:59 AMquote
It's basically working now in development... so that's promising. :-)

Is that still in progress?

I would love my SSL to analyze my tracks I did it way back and it felt great so I would feel home with that on I can tell you for sure..

Bump. Lets hope 1.6 has it.

This one is for all of of us. A tapoper is great... but, I'll assume that we all have more than 100 tracks at our disposal. I have added a great (READ: FREE) application that actually works and is quite accurate.

BPM Analyzer made by MixMaster is avalible for download via the following link: www.mixmeister.com

I don't beleive that there is a MAC version (sorry guys) but this does work with all types of music (Hip-Hop, House, Downtempo, etc.)

It's also more accurate (9/10) compaired to Tracktor DJ or Final Scratch (same diff @ the end of the day)

The GOOD:
----------
1. You can quickly and easily BPM you WHOLE archive.
2. Rather accurate, even with tracks with low volume or quite intros.
3. The application automatically writes the BPM Value in the BPM Tag for your MP3 files on the fly - they show up INSTANTLY IN SERATO.

The BAD:
--------
Not too much to say here... but:

1. If the BPM is off... it's a off by either 2 times the number or vice versa (mental math in mid-set is quite enjoyable (LOL) ... and you can change the value of course)

2. On the odd ocassion, the application may crash if the MP3 in question is corrupted or has a error in it (even if it plays in Searto). Although the application may have crashed, any MP3 it has read and BPM'd before the crash will retain it's new value.

Hopefully that helps ya'll out - (I've been keeping this one to myself for a few years now :-))

Thanks... but if you have searched before you had posted you would have know... your long kept secret weapon has been revealed a long time ago :)

Yeah...I have grown up with mixmeister BPM analyzer :) But thanks anyway Crate!

this thing is great crate!!! held me a lot !! dope shit !!!!less work more fun ! )

do i have to play all the tracks in sl before the bpm show in sl?
is there not an easyer way , because i had loaded all the tracks in a crate in sl but the bpm just showed of after i put the track on a deck... ???!!!??

Click "rescan tags".

integrated super accurate BPM would be nice

bump.. I really want this. :-)

Does mizmeister BPM add something to the ID3 tag for example automatically write the BPM under comment or anywhere else?

It writes info to the BPM tag (exact name is a bit different TBPM or something).

is there something new about an automatic bpm counter in a forthcoming version?

The discussion now is 2 years old????

I would prefer an automatic build in bpm counter, because i dont like mp3 files with tags.

i had FS 1.5 for 2 weeks and analyzed 500+ tracks and it was close on the majority of tracks but with all these partyben.com styled mashups they weren't very accurate

Will this BPM detection be able to generate midi clock to sync Ableton Live with SSL? Please make that possible (open this door for us)!

Can a mod please tell us about the news to this function? will it be able to use in v 1.5?

I am not a mod, but 1.5 is feature fixed and this is not on the feature list.

I find many auto-BPM tools have a hard time with dancehall. Theses beats sound like 3/4 timing (1-2-3, 1-2-3, 1-2-3, 1-2-3) and the resulting BPM is not doubled or half... maybe 4/3?

It would be great if Serato would automatically put the BPM (if it is blank in the ID3 tag) but it could still be tapped if its inaccurate.

Does anyone know of any software for MAC OS/X that does this batch BPM tagging???

WARNING: After only 3 months, the TEMPO tap button on my Numark 5000FX busted!!! I know I got a hard tap from years of makin' beats on the MPC but damn, and I can't imagine keyboards being more rugged than a DJ mixer.

i really wish they had a batch way of scanning BPM really fast. i have over 1,000 songs and the mixmmeister is a nice program but way too slow.

damn

Just leave MixMeister BPM Analyzer running over night. It should be done with most of the songs. That's what I plan on doing.

nik39, is the auto bpm something for 1.6?

I dont know, I am not a developer ;) If I was I wouldnt be able to tell cause of NDAs I assume. But it was not part of the built which I saw at the Musikmesse. Obviously this was not the final version, so how knows, maybe it will be added. If you ask about my opinion, I somehow doubt you will see any new big feature in 1.6 else than all the TTM57 support.

can anyone tell me how to add the bpm in itunes

Edit, View Options - and select BPM
APPLE+I (or 'CNTRL+I' in Windows) and enter the BPM
When you go back into Scratch Live make sure you go to setup and rescan ID3 tags. But if you select "allow file delete" (or something like that) you can add the BPM to your iTunes files while in Scratch Live. Then when you go into iTunes you gotta select all files (or at least the ones modified), press APPLE+I and ENTER and it'll rescan all the ID3 tags.

Anyone experience the ID3 tag info change when played in iTunes??? I had hundreds of songs with extra blanks at the end of Title, Artists and Album (only these three fields). If I fix them and play the song again it goes right back to how it was. Its like they are copyright or something. If I reconvert these to mp3 again, the new versions are OK. I fixed every single file and after Building Overviews I found nearly 200 more like this. Any ideas??? I'm guessing the ID3 tags are getting corrupted some how but why????????????

just use your ears :)

Agreed. It will pay off a lot in the long run, but I'm just guessing that it's hard to BPM the thousands of song on your laptops. Mixmeister BPM analyzer is usually accurate, many times not, but either way, it can never compare to our human listening skills.

Less than 2 measures into the song, I can tell what BPM it is just like that. And i'm sure some of you can do it even after six shots from the bar. But i hope the analyzing stuff works out for you guys, just don't rely on them too much! =]

If you are a DJ using Scratch live, you normally might want to use it because of its great opportunity to control your mp3 like a normal record.??? Why dont you sync your music the "DJ way" then? Works always great! Listen to ableton while pitching in your music with the control record. What do you need a control record for, when you have a sync button like in traktor FS?
Next you want to have a auto scratch function that applies authentic scratch algorithms to your music on the fly??
Oh please open that door for us (I am to lazy to learn it hee?)..

But one tip if you really need to sync ableton automatically: There are external effects generators out there, which generate midi clock information from any audio input. Should work this way. Another way was, if ableton included the function to automatically sync to the tempo of incoming audio. Maybe they want to include it in future. Logic Pro7 does it already!
If money is no problem, buy logic pro7 and use ableton live as a rewire slave for logic. Or use logic instead of ableton which should do the job as well...

I totally agree! It is an illusion if you want to learn or improve your mixing with the bpm function. The music will definately run out of sync! There is nothing more accurate than you ears. But it is still a very handy way to organize your library. Having all the music at a glance, that fits to your current set. Thats why I am really looking forward it...

It my other posts, you can see I'm a big fan of ignoring the waveforms (for the most part) to keep your ears sharp when mixing, but throwing Ableton in the mix makes in near impossible to keep everything in sync manually while keeping the mix audibly undistorted.

Since how Ableton has no good way to match it's loops (push or hold buttons) to an external audio source like SSL without MIDI clock, the mix is dependent on Ableton's tempo which limits your ability to keep the two tracks on SSL together.

Ableton isn't meant for displaying the creative art of beat matching nearly as much as it is for creative use of your own loops, samples, and original works which is why I see no problem using a audio to MIDI clock generator to keep it in sync.

ears must be enough... no fancy shit please... for midi fs2 is the way to go?

FS2 is never the way to go. It has Midi, but what good will Midi do you when the program crashes every five minutes?

mmm dude have you used Ableton? There's no way to control it like a deck or cdj, how do you want to beatmatch it? I want to mix normally with 2 serato vinyls and use Ableton to introduce in the mix over that my own loops, samples, effects and other incredible shit you just can't do with serato and/or record and a simple mixer...

READ!:

You cannot beatmatch ableton, but you can beatmatch ssl, with ableton as the master tempo. If you just want to mix a few loops
into your ssl set its a little bit more complicated maybe. But there is always a way, just be a little creative: For example you
could play a constant beat or click with ableton which you route to a different output than your ableton master. This click you mix only to your headphone, for example over your dj mixer, depending on your setup. Then you have a constant beat which you synchronize your complete ssl set to. If you now play a little loop with ableton it is in the same speed already. As you know "in sync" means same speed, same position. You only need to find the right moment to trigger your loop now. Maybe you want to use a midi keyboard or something like that. Soundcard for ableton with small latency is very usefull now! You need to practice a little bit, but if you press your keyboard (or drumpad even better) just in the very right moment, the loop should be in sync with your ssl setup. (As far as your loop runs at the same "ableton system speed" as the beat you matched your records to.)
If the loop runs out of sync now, then you did not synchronize
perfectly, so adjust your records.

Just imagine you have no ssl but only analogue records. What would you do to synchronize ableton or any other "music sequenzer"? Things have worked already many years before digital djing!

michael

button to press to match bpm of newly loaded track/deck to bpm of that currently playing on other deck & vice versa. as per Jorgen Hedberg's AB Developments Sweden: DJ1200SL (precursor to all the visiosonic gear.)

while you're at it why don't you give it a beer tap too, come on a button to press to match the beats automaticly? that has got to be the laziest suggestion i've ever heard. put your hand on the pitch control and use your ears, you know, like the rest of the world

That is the main reason I stayed well away from FS 2.0 and got SSL, FS 2.0 It just aint real once coupled with Traktor (besides the fact the my friend had ALOT of issues with the origional FS).

If an Auto BPM feature is implimented, does that mean we could see BPM reliant looping (1,2,4,8,16) in the near future? That would be so tight.

You guys just don't get it, I guess you only scratch and do hip hop stuff...

The point is that when you are having to beatmatch 3 constant sources at the same time like in your method all the time throughout your set (plus doing long mixes), THEN you wouldn't have much time to do shit in Ableton, thus defeating the purpose of using it. Plus i need another soundcard with multiple outs to send the constant beat you speak of ("metronome") to a different channel on the mixer (plus a mixer with at least 4 channels, 2 for serato, 1 for the ableton improvisation, and another extra channel for the ableton metronome to keep the whole show in time) See how it's just easier, simpler, less expensive, and faster if Serato implements bpm detection and rewire like the competition (Torq)?

If I was only using records I would buy something called a red sound cycloops, like many electronic music djs use...it auto detects bpm, it can send the necessary midi data, and it can sample and reloop automatically...

But the whole point of serato and all the new digital stuff is to use technology to do more with less stuff. Yeah I can do what i want to do with the cycloops, but it costs me more money, and i have to carry more gear. If Serato implements it in the software, then it's all done! Don't you get it? Plus if you just want to keep it "old school" like most of you are trying to imply, then why do you say that if the bpm detector is used for looping you actually like the idea? Oh so you can't loop manually???

I DON'T WANT SERATO TO BEATMATCH MY TRACKS INSIDE THE SOFTWARE, i want it to detect the bpm and send it to Ableton...damn is it that hard to understand? I don't need a BPM display or auto bpm to do a 3 minute mix...

do you understand now?

DJ Diego Vega... i'm with ya!

I'm still thinking of getting tthe Soundbyte XL any way. Cue up a loop in serato, record it on Soundbyte, instantly have three decks (well one with a loop), check out the new Kaoss Pad 3 looks pretty sweet, almost the exact same features as cyloops except can handle on 16 bars instead of 32. plus efffects galore

we need it to get bpms and accurately please!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Mixmeister is working just fine for me.

yeah but a feature in serato would be nice mixmeister has it traktor has why not serato?

I think comparing programs is not a good thing, its much like comparing you against another DJ. Different things are meant for different styles or ways of working and most importantly, they are developed in different ways and with different intents.

Anyways, I would also like this feature, but the program is so feature rich already that the developers are trying to figure out hot to keep its size small and its CPU demand low (while still pleasing us all!). Thats a very hard task. So once you look at the overall scope of the program, it is quite easy to just run another FREE program like mixmeister which does a great job and is very small. There are many other features that still need to be implemented that no other software out there can do, so I rooting for those... hehe.

I hear you though!

I hear ya Vega, I too am wanting a setup like your describing ie. ableton w/ reason slaved, SL1 and maybe even sent to protools for recording the set live if you have any suggestions please let me know (not just vega but any of you misfits out there)

Yeah looks like ive got a few quotes lined up there.... hehe
Sorry

GHOSTCOPY - We forgive you ;)

About your question dealing with the current situation about SSL & Ableton, there are two ways which have been mentioned and are the only solutions apprently (and this is not only the case in this forum but everywhere around the internet including thousands of djs that are actually trying to accomplish the same thing, if you check the official Ableton forum and other forums you will see many people have the same question, and everybody asks for Ableton to at least add pitch bend buttons but they don't do it) So it's either:

A) get the cycloops/kaoss pad 3/allen & heath 3D mixer and hope things work as expected (we really don't know how good this would work in practice, i haven't found any reviews)

OR

B) try using Ableton like a CDJ/turntable, assigning a fader on your midi controller to the bpm field (limiting the min and max value to get more resolution and small increments of pitch changes) and manually beatmatching it to your vinyls/cds/ssl mix

------


SERATO TEAM - I remember reading you were developing or testing with bpm detection, and I don't know how far you've gone but can you tell us anything about your progress and findings? I bet you guys have tried this SSL/Ableton combo or similar things at least behind closed doors... are there "real life" problems that affect this apparently simple theory? I don't know anything about the technical side involved so are there obstacles in the technology to allow this?

I was also wondering, doesn't SSL already have some kind of bpm/tempo detection implemented already? I mean how does the horizontal display on top of the SSL screen work (which supposedly helps you align two tracks's tempos)? Also the vertical beatmatching display already detects beats... and the zoomed waveform display detects beats (colored red) too, couldn't the software basically count the red beats and get bpm info from there or something? Can you please ellaborate on this topic I'm just curious in understanding more... thanks!

;) good question.

hehe thanks nik, sorry for not being technical with the different display names but you get the idea right?

I wrote ";)" cause its a good question. Totally understood what you were trying to say and to point it. Its easy to understand. :)

Its up to Serato to answer.

waiting patiently for serato to reply with some answers, but we could be waiting!

Also, on a similar note, how does the TTM57 control SSL? Is it by MIDI? Cause that would mean that MIDI is also implemented in SSL already, though only supported at the moment by the 57. Is that how it works?

B) try using Ableton like a CDJ/turntable, assigning a fader on your midi controller to the bpm field (limiting the min and max value to get more resolution and small increments of pitch changes) and manually beatmatching it to your vinyls/cds/ssl mix

Thats a great idea cheers man and also what about a midi learn function to map ssl to a controller the 57 thing is out of my wallet range and im not a big fan of the keyboard anyone think that might be cool

The first half of my last message was from DJ Diego Vega
the second half is all mine i tried to edit a quote and clearly fucked it, are we able to say fuck? I know we arent in school (being 29) anymore but hey you never know if we are not aloud then please insert --- where applicable

I won't tell anybody man. Shhhhhh! ;)

I have to say, that I really wish i never had to beatmatch at all. Seriously, the time it talke s to beatmacth is time that i could be throwing down drops, or cutting, or flipping through the playlist to see what song I'm going to play next. It would not hurt my feelings a t all if SSL did "Auto BPM or sync" my mix for me.

Imagine all the other creative things you could be doing with your time. Nobody's won a DMC of ITF because of the skills they have at beatmatching. They do all the shit they can to get that taken care of ahead of time so they don't have to worry about while they are in the middle of a set.

uuuf man, thats stepping in VirtualDJ terrain, and in this forum they'll crucify you for saying something like that... lol
You are pretty new, I hope they spare your life! ;)

look you can teach a monkey to beatmatch it would be a cool feature save time and you can concentrate on more creative mixing or loops cutting scratching not everybody will want it but it would be a cool option for those who want it!

It's all about the end result, what pumps through the PA. There's no way a Virtual Dj could touch what I could do with Serato. Now if only I had three wishes come true:

1. If SSL automatically computed an accurate BPM and would beatmatch within a 5 bpm range.
2. If SSL had USB interface integration (ie. M-Audio Trigger Finger or Akai MPD-16).
3. If SSL had 16 cue points that could be assigned to the aforementioned USB devices.

Seriously that would revolutionize djing (again).

Then you could dj bust into the realm of live production. SSL would be able to be played like an MPC does live.

Are you SSL gods listening, bless me with my three wishes, the last two are the most crucial, the fisrt is just a convience.

Please, I'll give you my MPC 1000.

lol

You're on, I could do with another MPC 1000!

Just kidding... but yes, we are working on automatic BPM detection.

Nice

at last!!!!!!!!!!
thank god.....
and the guys at serato.

Thats spot on... the second two would give me my ultimate rig.

I don't have an MPC 1000 to give you but i can send you my labels back catalouge :D

firstly - why do people chirp up with 'use your ears' as if having your BPMs calculated is a BAD thing? I may as well just say 'use vinyl only' in reply. Idiot DJ's will be idiot DJ's regardless of whether SSL has BPM detection.

good news that it's finally coming in 1.7 BUT i really hope the SSL team looked at how this has been done before. Traktor and all that other crap give total garbation results. They are rinky-dink crap for muppets. I demand perfection and will settle for nothing less. The ONLY impressive results I ever had was with Flat Feet Petes app - it was unnervingly accurate even on 'difficult' material (it calculated ACAPELLAS correctly I mean WTF) and set the benchmark high way way back. Agreed it would choke on the odd half-time or d&b track but these were easy to spot and clean up afterwards.

Sam can you confirm what kind of level the auto-bpm will be at?

Thanks
E

^^^^ word...

word, I used to hate on clocking bps, its cheating

the I reasised, hey buddy, no one is even notices, its not even on the test, no one cares, so my little skill of mixing without bpms was shit. so I did it, made me a better dj. I still dont really like people to see my sharpie numbers on the jackets.

especially for delay effects its the shit, no one gives a fuck about how skilled you are when it comes to manually taping in the bpm on your device, wtf b

word, I used to hate on clocking bps, its cheating

the I reasised, hey buddy, no one is even notices, its not even on the test, no one cares, so my little skill of mixing without bpms was shit. so I did it, made me a better dj. I still dont really like people to see my sharpie numbers on the jackets.

especially for delay effects its the shit, no one gives a fuck about how skilled you are when it comes to manually taping in the bpm on your device, wtf b

word, I used to hate on clocking bps, its cheating

then I reasised, hey buddy, no one is even notices, its not even on the test, no one cares, so my little skill of mixing without bpms was shit. so I did it, made me a better dj. I still dont really like people to see my sharpie numbers on the jackets.

especially for delay effects its the shit, no one gives a fuck about how skilled you are when it comes to manually taping in the bpm on your device, wtf b

You really wanted that point across LOL

No offense, I know you guys been working hard at this, but from reading this forum ya'll have been saying this for over a year. Just curious, is there any timeline for release yet?

Sorry, I know I am impatient, but the suspense is killing me!

It's expected to be in 1.7 which is coming out early next year. Along with key lock :)

2006 --> 1.6
2007 --> 1.7

;-)

Yeah, there's defenitely a trend going on here.

Will there be Auto looping in future versions? Or is it expected that when Serato implements midi you will have to manually adjust loop in/out points with midi knob, etc....

Would this key lock feature be compatible with Numark's CDX (among other CD turtables)? I love the full pitch bend, but key lock would mean i wouldn't need to switch to CDs when I want to empliment this mode. :)

sweet!! can't wait!

Early 2007! I have been looking for that answer all over the place. Key lock sounds awfully nice. I saw these features on an m-audio program and got jealous. I cant wait either!

key lock is more important that bpm detection in my opinion. I hear what soe of yall who are more producers are sayin in here, this is what kinda scares me honestly. What bout us djs who are based all the conventional ways of doing things and arent really up with production and mpcs and shit. I totally here where you guys are coming from, ive seen what torq can do. I personally like the simplicity of serato and only wish for a few extras here and there. The thought of auto beat mixing and all that makes me sick to my stomach (as any real dj will tell ya). At the same time, sure the more shit goes digital, the more djs are gonna push the envelop. I was blown away by the videos of enferno in this forum, i mean wow. dont know what im really sayin here, but i think some of u get the picture. Technology developing is a great thing, im all for it. As far as auto beatmixing, i just dont ever see it compariing to the real thing. How can a computer ever really adjust like a human? What bout tracks wy back when that arent digitally created and slightly alter in bpm throughout the mix?

Prizo,,,,Totally agree with ya but the auto bpm detection talked about in this thread is just a tool built into ssl to label the bpm of the song, that's it, It will not mix for you or match the bpm's up for you, it just simply tags the songs with the correct bpm, similar to Mixmeister bpm analyzer.

yeh i know man, i refering to some of the djs who were talking bout the auto bpm mixin option, not the detection> I am all for organizing by bpm.

ahhh, gotcha.

right i got the update the auto bpm worked fine for the first few sessions then it stoppedi dont know why ?? any suggestions?