Serato DJ Pro General Discussion

Talk about Serato DJ Pro, expansion packs and supported hardware

Why ITCH waveform run very smooth in Mac and in Windows run with glitches?

RodrigoVolta 2:08 PM - 20 February, 2013
Hello to all,

Many people who use Windows as an operating system, like me, are going through this little problem: The waveforms always lagging on the screen! Even disabling all visuals, still perceives some lags in the waveform. On the Mac it does not happen, even in older Macs. I notice that in Mac, the waveforms run very smooth, no lag and linear as well. Even on PCs with graphics cards like ATI or nVidia, the problem happens.

Could someone explain why this is? Why lags happen on the PC and not in Mac?

Tests made ​​with Windows and Windows 7 and 8 in both cases, the same thing happens. There is a decrease of lag when I leave the Windows Classic theme or Basic activated without Aero.

Thanks.
selkie 4:21 AM - 21 February, 2013
In my windows machine (xp sp3 core2duo 2ghz) the waveform is very very smooth... in the mac althought is smooth, it has some distorsions in the waveform because of the way mac "soften" the graphics.

I prefer the windows waveform :O
RodrigoVolta 3:51 PM - 21 February, 2013
Strange ...

And Windows 7 is not supposed to work that way too?

I think it would be interesting to someone Staff explain that to us.
Papa Midnight 4:49 AM - 22 February, 2013
(Mac) OS X accelerates the entire desktop. Everything.

Windows does not.
RodrigoVolta 3:22 PM - 22 February, 2013
Quote:
(Mac) OS X accelerates the entire desktop. Everything.

Windows does not.


Exactly!

Is there any third party software to do this on Windows? Or some feature on video card driver to do that?

Strange, because in Traktor or VirtualDJ this does not happen only in Serato I've noticed these lags.

That's why I always thought Serato was genuinely written to run on a Mac and not Windows.

Anyway...
RodrigoVolta 5:28 PM - 9 October, 2013
Quote:
(Mac) OS X accelerates the entire desktop. Everything.

Windows does not.


It's wrong! Some users are havin same problem in wyours MacBooks Pro. So, not is exclusive for Windows users!

Speaking with some friends that build programs for music's professionals, they told me that Serato waveform lag issue is in the way that software build waveforms in real-time. Serato uses CPU or GPU to draw waveform, but for some reason, Serato not uses GPU to draw and it cause glitch/lag in waveform flow because CPU is busy with other processes.

We can see it simply activing classic theme in Windows. Aero is OFF and CPU can work more smoothly!

Would be interesting to Serato team modify the program so that it uses only the graphics processor (GPU) to make this work. This already happens in other software like Traktor (which has the most enhanced waveform that Serato), VDJ and Deckadance! If your computer has a TOP LINE video card 3D accelerated, as an nVidia or ATI, will be able to enjoy an excellent performance!

Actually in current setup, no matter if you have a top line videocard or a simple (onbloard): waveform performance will always be the same!

So Serato: hands to ground! It has many things to solve! Let the "perfumery" aside and focus on solving and improving the software that is much more important!
Ste H 1:00 PM - 26 April, 2015
Yes I also have this problem, very annoying. They need to re-code waveforms to run through gpu and NOT cpu, apparently they are working on it, but no time scale :(
ItsCraigo 10:21 PM - 9 July, 2015
wow? It really uses CPU for this task?

I've a GTX750Ti with 2GB OF DDR5 onboard. No wonder my waveforms are juddery. It's not even using the GPU to accelerate.

Please add this is to the next release. At least as a toggle settings option.
RodrigoVolta 12:30 AM - 10 July, 2015
Quote:
wow? It really uses CPU for this task?

I've a GTX750Ti with 2GB OF DDR5 onboard. No wonder my waveforms are juddery. It's not even using the GPU to accelerate.

Please add this is to the next release. At least as a toggle settings option.


Yep! I hope that Serato staff see this post and fix in next releases.
ItsCraigo 1:58 PM - 11 July, 2015
I've just tested on a desktop Windows 7 Pro HP Z600, dual hex-core (24 cores!) running 12GB of RAM and a GTX780 with 3GB of DDR5. (About £1000 of machine)

Waveforms are just as juddery!? I then tested on a low spec MacPro. Waveform dare beautifully smooth.

What gives?
Ste H 6:06 PM - 11 July, 2015
I can only wish for smooth waveforms!! :( itl probably never get fixed
ItsCraigo 9:55 AM - 12 July, 2015
This was also on the latest version of Serato DJ btw.

I'm sure it must be some form of settings optimisation as the machines I've tested on are extremely grunty. It's not exactly a processor intensive task either. To me, it's almost like a refresh rate issue?
Papa Midnight 6:07 AM - 13 July, 2015
Quote:
What gives?


Two years ago.

Quote:
(Mac) OS X accelerates the entire desktop. Everything.

Windows does not.
ItsCraigo 6:47 AM - 13 July, 2015
Elaborate on the form of 'acceleration' as this will be replicable in Windows and if it's within the OS, they'll be a third party route.
Papa Midnight 10:20 PM - 13 July, 2015
We're not talking about plugins, we're talking about something inherent to the operating system itself, and the way in which it handles graphical output.

At it's most fundamental level, Apple's OS X operating system uses QE/CI for GPU Acceleration.

en.wikipedia.org
en.wikipedia.org
en.wikipedia.org

I don't know in full what the internal development process is at Serato, but I've long suspected (as is well documented in my post history on this forum; and that theory was extrapolated from the processes observed, and what little data Serato provides about their internal workings) that Serato develops on OS X first, and then ports to Windows.

OS X natively, through Quartz (especially if you use Quartz Composer) - it's display server - offloads a significant chunk of graphical work to the GPU (if available) for management rather than handle it at the CPU level.

While Windows does as well (mostly with the advent of Aero roughly around Windows Vista), it does not fully accelerate every single element of the entire desktop (including active applications) like OS X does. This is not a bug, nor a flaw. It is by design. This offsets the responsibility onto the developer to choose how best to manage acceleration of their program (should they choose to do so). I.E., they can choose GDI or Direct2D (DirectDraw was killed off years ago) - more reading on that here: msdn.microsoft.com.

One of the goals of Windows 8 was to, like OS X, accelerate EVERYTHING (blogs.msdn.com). However, that primarily only applied to Microsoft's first-party applications, and the requirement was only laid upon applications obtained via the Application Store. For all other applications, it still remains incumbent on developers to do their part. Hence, this is where we currently are with Serato on Windows.
ItsCraigo 7:25 AM - 14 July, 2015
Perfect. GPU offloading is the way forward. I'm going to try and add Serato.exe into my NVidia control panel and manipulate the visuals from there.

This has to be a must for Serato devs to add as I believe most users just assume that the jerky waveforms are normal. If any of them have seen them displayed properly on a Mac, then they'd want to same on their Windows setup!
quikness 5:32 PM - 4 August, 2015
Yeah would love a work around for this, quite annoying