Hi dj-nice,

We can not support discontinued products, Allen & Heath don't even support the Xone:DX anymore.

Its not the fact we don't "want" it in Serato DJ, it is a discontinued product and there is nothing we can do about that im afraid, we do not manufacture the units.

I will move this to the general discussion and you will be able to get more replies.

Cheers

what about the memory leak in SERATO DJ? Are there the same problems with bigger databases?

We have done a lot of work on the way the library functions and receives data from the database in Serato DJ, so hopefully the issues will be fixed! :)

will current Xone:DX users still receive Serato DJ as a free upgrade? even if it doesn't work with the controller? it only seems fair.

You will be able to download the Serato DJ software for free from our website, but the program will not become authorized and fully functional until you plug in a compatible controller, which the Xone:DX is not.

so please think about a non free (199 $) update for the Xone console.

Off topic :




I have a VCI 380, if i buy a VCI 400 (i'm also using traktor...), am i gonna have to pay an upgrade ?

Are you saying we will be able to read in large amounts of music files (50,000) or more without the system hanging etc?

That would be a great improvement.

Yes. It has been confirmed by Serato in a different thread.

+1

So, who is going to give my money back, A&H or Serato? Been a Serato user since 2006 roughly. Bought the Xone 3 months ago to find out now that it's no longer supported? That itch is a thing of the past and I can expect no improvements on an already buggy setup?

WTF is happening to these companies that make music gear for their beloved fans to just turn around and say "we got your money and that was all we needed" I just went through the same experience with M-Audio and a $1200 set of studio monitors! Should I now hold Serato in that same regard? Is Serato no better than M-Audio?!

You have the coding to make Serato DJ recognize the hardware. We'll take care of mapping it, just MAKE IT RECOGNIZE THE XONE!

(Yes, I've reposted this same statement on many threads, it needs to be seen)

@Bozo: The VCi-380 will be a free upgrade path to Serato DJ since it is an ITCH controller, so you will only need to plug in the controller for it to work. However with the VCi-400, since it is a Serato DJ Intro controller when you plug it in, Serato DJ will read that it is a Intro controller and will require a paid upgrade before you are able to use it in Serato DJ.

@DJ Cs: That's the plan! :)

@Psynapses: The Xone:DX is a DISCONTINUED product by Allen & Heath, which means they no longer make them anymore, which means they are unable to fully support those units anymore. If Allen & Heath dont even support the Xone:DX anymore, it is hard for us to give support to all Xone:DX users.

You will be able to map some controls on the Xone:DX as a MIDI controller in Serato DJ if you wish. But you will still need a Serato DJ compatible controller connected to authorize the application.

The Xone:DX will not be compatible with Serato DJ. If you still wish to continue using it stand-alone you will need to use a version of the ITCH application.

Regards

I understand what "Discountinued" means, I didn't come here to have that explained to me.

Someone said it best on another thread, A&H did their part in making the equipment, Serato should do their part in making software that supports it. If Itch was a solid piece of software, I wouldn't have an issue....but it's not and now never will be......so, I'm stuck with a $1500 paper weight.

It's been stated by many Xone users they would be willing to pay the $199 for the upgrade. Not sure what's so hard about that. Sure they may have been miffed if they never knew the other option, but now they do and it's that Serato has dropped the ball on this one.

......so, I'm stuck with a $1500 paper weight.



That may have been overstated, I can always run it with Traktor I guess

It can be used with the latest version of itch or traktor. So saying its an overstatement calling it a $1500 paper weight is a complete understatement.....lol

This is bad!!
I don't know about DJ Cs but dj-nice definitely was talking about ITCH and the Xone:DX.

@ Serato
You guys at least stepped up a little and now I'm convinced that Xone:DX users will never see Serato DJ without having an additional certified controller.

But(!):
The DX users will also never see library improvements or bug fixes ever.
It was clearly stated that ITCH 2.2.2 is the very last version of the programme.

So if your DX works fine with 2.2.2 or any other version: Good for you.
If it does not: You're officially been big time major league SCREWED...

@serkan,
Dj-nice said:

I apologize if I have misinterpreted, however if he was talking about ITCH he should have said "What about the memory leak in ITCH". But since he said Serato DJ i assumed he was asking about a memory leak within Serato DJ.

As far as I am aware there will be no further updates to the ITCH platform. 2.2.2 will be the last working version for the Xone:DX.

Regards

It would be an understatement if Itch worked like it should and included all the promised add ons that will never come for Xone users.

Thanks for the fix Scott S

Hi Scott.
Seems like I was more tired as I remember :)
You're absolutely right.

Hi Scott S
for me the only way to kill this endless discussion is to continue the DX Support or make your homework an give us a improved and fixed Itch 2.3 with usable database (and dont forget the area button)

Whats going on here is unbelievable.....

Quote from this thread: serato.com

Allen and Heath is still supporting Xone Dx and making new drivers only serato dropping support for dx. Sounds very lame to me.
Words of Al C from A&H :

- new software for XONE:DX was released after production of the hardware ended and this included both firmware and driver updates.
The last firmware update included some minor bug fixes and added functionality.
The last driver release included updates to enable OSX10.8 compatibility.
End Quote


Confirmed, latest driver release date:
XONE_DX_Driver_2.1.8.dmg
Friday, July 27, 2012 3:46 PM

The Xone was discontinued in late 2011 and new driver released in July of 2012. Sounds like solid support to me.

Again A&H is DOING their part, Scott S and Serato, PLEASE DO YOURS!

If A&H stopped paying Serato, it ain't gonna happen. No money to be made, then no resources will be wasted on a non-profitable controller.

Nothin personal , just business ...(in my Serato voice)

Does anyone know the specifics of the "memory leak"? As I understand it, it only affects people with "huge libraries"; what's the numerical definition of "huge"?

A Club DJ with 2000 Tracks an had no problems. An mobile allround DJ with >20000 Tracks and a big amount of crates had this problem. it depends to the amount of subcrates AND how many tracks are inside.
Then it depends to several options like Itunes y/n, custom culumn crates y/n and show tracks from subcrates, too
[+] Last one makes the workflow nearly without any delay while open/close big crates but
[-] seems to be one reason for the memory leak

Serato was not interested in such details while last 2.x betatests because imho they still worked on Serato DJ....and so:

STILL STOPPED SUPPORT FOR DX USERS!

That would be foolish approach on Serato's part. I've owned 3 different Serato products and Itch will be my last if there is no resolution to this. And by the looks of it, I'm not the only one. Which is going to make a company more money? 20 years of dedicated customers, or a short marriage the ended in utter failure and divorce?

Thanks... my next question: does using I-tunes affect it positively or negatively?

Better yet, can you point me towards the thread where all of this is discussed? I tried searching for it but I guess my terms weren't specific enough...

Justify this. It works with ITCH. How is it a paper weight?

As I stated earlier "if Itch worked like it should and included all the promised add ons that will never come for Xone users."

I spend about as much time mixing as I do trying to launch Itch and get it to recognize the Xone. Along with a slew of other bugs that I've seen. Traktor starts and recognizes the hardware with no effort.........although I dislike Traktor and have always been a fan of Serato products.

With a gig coming next weekend, I'm terrified to use it......which was never a problem with the other Serato products I've owned. That is how my reaction is justified.

And the fact that the Xone is not an analog mixer puts a great deal of limitation on what it can be used for outside of midi capable software. I didn't buy the Xone to use with Traktor or any other software for that matter. I bought it to use with Serato.

Extremely disappointed by Serato's decision not to support the DX.

It was one of the 1st Itch controllers released and commanded a premium price over others due to A&H's build quality and features (fx control, digital i/o, 24/96 audio).

It's reasonable to assume that support for any controller could be dropped from Serato DJ in future under similar circumstances and for that reason I for one will not be purchasing or recommending Serato products in future.

There are many who use the xone with no issues so the obvious question is what are they doing differently than you?
Has your laptop been ruled out as the cause of your issues? Are your issues verified bugs?

@ Psynapses, Excuse me if this has already been addressed but in regards to your controller being unusable or a paper weight as you describe I find it odd that you have never chosen to take any steps to rectify your extreme issues as compared to other users by seeking professional assistance from serato by opening a help request. You have only recently become vocal in regards to no support of the zone but I cant find any history of you attempting to fix your issues with the current software, why is that ? This is not an attack, its just that your actions don't appear logical for a user who truly wants to get their $1500 gear to work. Can you open a help request so we can address the immediate issues with the current software and rule out any assumptions. Thanks

Up till this point, I didn't see much reason to open a thread as I've seen others with some of the same problems and Serato is (or so I thought) notorious for fixing problems. Now that I know that Serato is no longer supporting, excuse me, updating Itch, I got pretty worked up that the issues will not get resolved. I admit my approach has been a little over the top, but things won't change sitting around keeping quiet.

Bottom line, I get a grey screen on start up unless everything is unplugged. When I do get Itch started, Xone is not always recognized. It takes numerous attempts before things get going. I will take this to a support thread, but figured it needed to be shared here as well.

Thanks for your input pdidy, no offense taken. I can understand where I caused confusion.

good move, i will be tracking your progress.

So amazingly disappointed in Serato over this. The cost to them to make this work with Serato DJ has to be so minimal to them yet they abandon long time faithful customers (Since 2004 here) simply because they won't get that cash bump from new sales on XoneDX. My DX isn't even two years old yet and sure, I can still use it pretty much indefinitely considering I have rarely had problems with mine, but to watch new and improved software come out and be left behind like this is inexcusable.

The thing is Serato will for sure damage its reputation with this decision and lose trust with many users. ..some have no choice to get what they need but to purchase another companies software. How can one feel stable buying a Serato product and then thinking it may lose support in the near future..almost like a company went under. Not good business IMOP.

Agreed. Seems like discontuation could happen anytime with any itch device.

I do see Serato's logic on this. They are in a tough spot here with the model they have setup. Unfortunately, contracts and partnerships break down in business and therefore businesses are not able to fulfill previous obligations to their customers.
I don't thinks this is Serato's intent and believe they are loyal to their customers.

However, I think you guys know it must go deeper than just being a discontinued product.

I don't have the Xone:DX but it makes me worry about other "older" controllers like my beloved V7's.

Knowing that it will ONLY function on Itch/Serato DJ and of course VDJ, would force me to go to another companies software to keep using it if Numark marks it "Discontinued" due to a newer model coming out or for contractual obligations.

This is the fatal flaw for us as consumers when making the decision to purchase "high end" equipment that is "proprietary" (for lack of a better word).

I whole heartedly support the Xone users on this one and hope that a work around can be made.

It makes us feel we all have a ticking clock on our controllers.

Serato is not the only company that has this model, as Traktor employs the same concept on their controllers.

M-Audio's Torq is the ill fated lesson that some of us had to learn the hard way about proprietary controllers and how quickly your $600+ investment can go up in smoke.

Good luck guys, as I see this as a future path for other ITCH/Serato DJ controllers.

Again, this in no way should be seen as blame towards Serato, as manufacturer support is out of their control....It's just one man's opinion on the subject.

Wait a minute. Just because a controller becomes discontinued does not mean it will stop functioning. It will still work just up to the point of it's last supported software version. And the app will always be available to download plus the fact that you should have a copy backed up. So where is the flaw. I don't get it as every piece of equipment or software has a lifecycle.

This fact seems to be lost on many people.

ok, but the final "present" 2.2.2 is buggy and for many people unusable

Then go back to a version that works. I still use 2.1 with my V7's because it's very stable with my Dell Latitude.

It's not a memory leak more than a memory boundary, when it hits that limit, the program crashes.

It is "estimated" from my experience that it falls around 60K files or so, but depends on the total number of subcrates and how much data is in the meta tags and how well they are tagged. I have 80K files, can't load them in at all, the only solution is to scale back, but that is unacceptable from a mobile point of view, I have so many genres and series issues that trying to chop it up and figure out what I needed and "don't need" just isn't viable. It also creates archiving issues when you need to sync your master libraries to all the needed rigs vs master song archives.

I've posted plenty about it. Hopefully Serato fixes this major issue. It's only a matter of time before most people are walking around with 100K files......

this is V 1.7....

You are correct, every piece of equipment does have a lifecycle. However, that lifecycle at one time was determined by the hardware itself and not a "DESIGNED" cycle that depends on one or two companies license agreements.

Hardware can last decades if maintained correctly, software upgrades and updates are a much faster cycle...2-4 years at most. For example, in some cases to use a perfectly maintained piece of equipment, you will have to keep an OS that is possibly two generations behind and lose out on certain benefits like better memory management, and in the case of Serato DJ, the ability to use a much larger database correctly with your perfectly good hardware.

The Xone DX is only 2 years old, contrast that to a good mixer and turntable setup that people have had and still functioning to this day like it did 20 years ago.

DJ PM Says "That fact seems to be lost on many people", however it seems many do not understand that hardware ONCE determined Lifecycle.

Times have changed and now that lifecycle has little to do with the hardware itself and more to do with the PLANNED OBSOLESCENCE

From Wikipedia:
Planned obsolescence or built-in obsolescence[1] in industrial design is a policy of planning or designing a product with a limited useful life, so it will become obsolete, that is, unfashionable or no longer functional after a certain period of time.[1] Planned obsolescence has potential benefits for a producer because to obtain continuing use of the product the consumer is under pressure to purchase again, whether from the same manufacturer (a replacement part or a newer model), or from a competitor which might also rely on planned obsolescence.[1]
For an industry, planned obsolescence stimulates demand by encouraging purchasers to buy sooner if they still want a functioning product. Built-in obsolescence is used in many different products. There is, however, the potential backlash of consumers who learn that the manufacturer invested money to make the product obsolete faster; such consumers might turn to a producer (if any exists) that offers a more durable alternative.
Estimates of planned obsolescence can influence a company's decisions about product engineering. Therefore, the company can use the least expensive components that satisfy product lifetime projections. Such decisions are part of a broader discipline known as value engineering.

@Support

Just have seen:



DX User = Itch User
Itch User = get free upgrade?

So, if i buy (as a DX user) a Serato Intro Console, i will get the ugrade for free...
I think, thats fair. Thanks SERATO!

Nope. DX : no support for Serato DJ.


Do you have a link?

Nö, das ist nur die logische Schlussfolgerung aus den Marketingaussagen :)
Mal sehen, ob da jemand anspringt.

Not polite to post in German.. .this is an English spoken tread.

That reasoning about the upgrade doesn't even make sense. Sorry.

Serato DJ is not a free upgrade for Serato Intro users. Cost will be $199 to upgrade.

i am a Itch User and have to believe the SERATO Marketing:

since kidding all DX user, the should give all DX user, who own a INTRO console, too, a free SERATO DJ upgrade.

btw. New Zealand $ or US $?

I don't think they said it anywhere, but I think this would be a fair offer from Serato.

maybe one of our SERATO supporters takes this to Serato CEO

dj-nice's idea is indeed nice but it still doesn't help the Xone:DX as it would be a trade of a well-made high quality controller to (in most cases) some entry level toy.

If I were a Xone:DX owner I would prefer the $199 upgrade so I could use the DX with Serato DJ. But yes, it's still the biggest crap in Serato's history not to support ALL ITCH controllers.

Why not just let the Xone:DX be recognised as an authorized DJ controller (with a Serato disclaimer). And let DX users remap their controllers.

Or do you want DX users just to buy & use one of those plasticy boxes that will work with DJ instead. It'll be like giving up a Jaguar for a Ford Ka. I think it'll all start going a little bit Traktor before that happens.

My biggest concerns are my current ITCH controllers and my SL 1 to be honest.
How will I ever know that Scratch Live 2.x/3.x or Serato DJ x.x will support my hardware?
What if the day comes when SSL and SDJ are being merged?

I don't care about the A&H/Denon users that much but the same could happen to any current hardware.
The only thing making me sleep well since SDJ's announcement is the fact that A&H and Denon are both brands of D&M Holdings so I really do believe that the whole thing has nothing to do with the products being discontinued. It's about licensing.

You nailed it more than likely. One way to have avoided that is to call it "ITCH", but Serato seem hell bent on making sure those products were dropped and getting the new Itch, excuse me, "Serato DJ" out the door.

fixed..

refixed..

This petition is not quite complete and I will continue to work on it, but I figured it needed to happen to organize.

Please share this with any and all DJs that you can. Get them to stand behind this and Serato will hopefully see the light.

www.change.org

I am looking for the best email to contact Serato Audio Research. CEO's would be best. Any help on this would be appreciated.

If I owned a Corvette, and Chevy decided to pull the plug on servicing the engine, then I would have options on servicing the engine elsewhere. If there was something in the engine that wouldn't let me have work done on that engine unless it was serviced at a Chevy dealership, and they STILL would not honor their engine, there would be an uproar with the Corvette owners worldwide. Taking this even further, If Chevy stopped producing the Corvette, then people would still look to fix / service their corvettes.

Think of the Xone DX as the Corvette and the Engine as Serato ITCH. We would respectfully need a way to upgrade to Serato DJ so we can continue to "drive" our Xone DX "Corvettes".

This part kinda nullifies your whole point; the "engine" in the DX is kinda interchangable (you can run Traktor and VDJ on it at the very least)... bad analogy...

VDJ? Are you kidding us?

Not so much. I don't want a prius engine in my corvette just because it gets better gas milage...

I wasn't suggesting that you'd -want- to change engines... just that it was a bad analogy because there are other engines available :).

Personally, I'm sticking with Itch (with Traktor as a backup) unless the petition (which I already signed) somehow works...

I own Traktor and VDJ by the way, but I like how Serato interacts best with my hardware. No disrespect to any Traktor or VDJ users...

Scott S: Does this mean that Serato will offer general MIDI, so that third party devices can interact with any Serato software?

in every case, first, you have to plug in a suppoerted console. Then a 2nd midi console with an individual mapping.

In the case, you own a twitch and a Xone:DX:
plug in Twitch and use the very low level soundcard inside. Then plug in the DX. Your great high level Xone 10 Ch. soundcard could then only be mapped for some midi actions wihout any audio output.

That sounds horrendous.

If DJ has mapping for 3rd party controllers, then can't they go 1 step further & give audio routing for the DX and all the subsequent 'I was your friend, but i'm no longer playing with you anymore' controllers - & just give their once happy customers a chance to buy DJ.

www.change.org

Great start, let's keep it moving! Share this, tweet it, Facebook it, whatever you can to keep this moving!

www.change.org

Where I get kind of lost in the logic about the lack of support due to it being a discontinued product, is that there are controllers that will have support that are discontinued as well. It seems as though (IMO) both parties need to be willing to make this work and they don't want to. It's the only explanation that I can come up with considering the status of the VCI-300.

I mean, I'm certainly not pleased about it. But since I 'only' paid ~$500 for my unit and don't gig out with it, I can deal with it and Itch 2.2.

Allen&heath still supports the unit and new drivers are on their way to mac os x 10.9.1.. so make serato dj available for us!

Well, sorry it's not gonna happen. That's why the conversation stopped over a year ago Jimmy. It's discontinued. End of story.