<-- Owns a Speaker Company

www.synergysoundlabs.com

Cool, so should i email or call?

Either or ... It's up to you ... I have instant messenger too ... DJMadMatt

Ok cool, got pics? .......anybody else?

BTW i have the woofers, i need them unloaded.

Do you already have the drivers or do you want something completed and working?

Also are these for Subs or do you want a full range enclosure with horns and mids?

These will be for mids. I have the woofers, ill be needing everything else though, like the terminals(1/4in preferably or speakon maybe), speaker covering(carpet, vinyl etc.) High frequency driver, and of course a crossover , so i can stop blowing out tweeters LOL(they be the cheap piezos anyway.

If you need a "Mid - High" cabinent, 15's are not the way to go.

We run speakon's in all of our cabinents.

They are constructed with 13 Ply Russian Baltic Birch. They are also Vortex coated.

We won't actually build a 15" Mid cabinent unless its for Low Mids. Its not effecient and can never sound as good or be as accurate as a 10" or 12" because of the compositon of a 15".

Putting a 1" Horn together with a 15" Loudspeaker and crossing them over at 1.5K with a 12db/octace passive crossover is ridiculous. (Even though many speaker comapnies do it, it's not at all respectable in the "Pro World") You will never see anything "Pro" like that.

The only way to effeciently use a 15" as a mid would be if, you Quad Amped a System

Highs 1" or 1.4" Compression Drivers (I don't like 2")
High Mids 8" or 10" Loudspeaker
Low Mids 12" or 15" Loudspeaker
Lows or Subs 15", 18" or 21" (I use 21's 95% of the time)

We are a very "Pro" Company. What kind of budget are you looking at?

MDF is the way to go...

No dude ... Not at all. It cant stand up to road abuse plus, comparing 3/4" MDF with a 3/4" Birch ... the Birch is twice as strong and half the flex. Also a lot more money.

that what i meant.. more money... i use mdf it works great? but im not moving those bitches to florida n back either..

Acoustically, Baltic Birch is twice as good as MDF. MDF is fine for your sub box in your car but, nothing Pro or even Semi Pro would even consider using it.

There's a thick line between "Works Great" and "Works the Best"

thats probly one of the best quotes i've seen on here in a long while minbd if i steal that?

Thanks ... Go right ahead.

Ok so they will be Low and Mids, but i need a good hi frequency driver in them. Like one thats in the peavey sp1g or similar. I love the highs on that speaker, although it weighs as much as a freaking truck. LOL

So... whats "13 Ply Russian Baltic Birch", im guessing it good since u mentioned it, but i dont know exactly what it is, other than it being wood LOL. is there a speaker out there made of it?... Vortex? Thats the EAW finishing right? My buget is approximately $400-$500 not including the horn or hi freq. driver. I can add an extra $100-$150 for decent hi freq. drivers if neccessary. But hoping not to ;)

So you have the (4) 15" loudspeakers already correct? What kind are they (Brand and model)

We won't do a 15" and Horn combo ... If you want these to be a full range cabinents, We need to add a 10" for a Mids and then a 1" Compression Driver for your Highs. It will be a three way cabinent.

13 Ply Russian Baltic Birch is the Best Wood you can use in a cabinent. It's usually a special order Item and comes in 5'X5' Sheets.

The next best thing to that is a Birch Faced Ply which is still plywood with birch on the outsides and other wood on the inside. You can get a Birch Faced Ply at Home Depot and Lowes. Some of that isnt 13 Ply

Vortex is a Bed liner material like Line X. EAW uses a cheap textured black enamel that doesnt last. Suprisingly, Yamaha has a speaker series with Line X on it now. Now if they just sounded good they'd be on the right track.

My truck just got done ... I'll finish this up when i get back about the High Frequency Drivers.

If possible, can u post some good quality pics that i can take a look at? Thanks.

Oh, i have 2 pairs of these ---->www.eminence.com

I just got a good deal on them from a friend of a friend.

Im trying to end up with a finished project in the format that looks like these:

1. www.123dj.com
2. www.123dj.com
3. www.sixstardj.com

Like i said earlier ..



However, if your hell bent on having ones like those in the picture, I'll talk to production and see what we can do them for. They'll be like, "Are you serious, were not putting our name on them." hahahahahah

The third link you posted the "Marathon" ones are B-52's rebranded.

We use Faitals and Beymas for compression drivers. Personally, I've never heard anything sound better than the Beymas and we've demo'd a lot of different brands.
www.faitalpro.com
profesional.beyma.com

Ok so what do you reccommend? I posted the woofers that i have, whats your suggestion on cabinets. Keep in mind all i have is the woofers.

The Kappa's will work fine. Tell me a little more about how they are going to be used and if there is any certain style of music that will get played mostly on them. And what types of places they will be used in. I'm guessing they are for a mobile show.

Most of our stuff is built to the user and how they will use them meaning, handles or Flyware, Road Worthy or Install, active or passive, indoor or outdoor.

Very very personalized.

kappas? pics? .......Ok, indoor and outdoor but mostly indoor, mobile djing (birthday parties, babyshowers etc.), mostly hip hop music, passive(im not a big fan of amplified speakers)

your mother builds speaker cabinets

Kappas (Those are your 15's)

When I said Passive or Active I meant crossovers.

We don't do self powered. (I'm not a fan of that either.)

Do you have amps or a amp yet?

Watch ya mouth homeboi

My bad matt, im buggin out. i think i would go with a passive crossover. Yes i have an amp, but i will be purchasing another one soon. why? suggestions?

Using an active crossover and (in your case) bi-amping your cabinets will result in much higher SPL and cleaner sound. It will allow each amplifier to focus all its power on a specific part of the frequency range. Somewhere around 1.2khz would be a good crossover point between the 15s and the high frequency driver you choose.

And do you already have subs? Also using the active crossover to route a specific frequency range (30 to 85hz) will power subs WAY better than wasting amp power on the frequencies the sub isn't reproducing. And the active crossover at 85 between subs and mids will let your 15s work less hard to produce deep low end, and again not wasting amp power on what the 15s can't produce.

A DBX Driverack PA is a good very easy to use active crossover/limiter/EQ/delay unit.

I was thinking about a driverack, but i REALLY have my doubts and dont trust all in one units. I dont have subs yet, but i will be working on getting them soon. My plans were to have 2 top speakers which will be the dual 15's with a good titanium horn/tweeter, which will be for mid and highs. Also, 2 subs for bass. I want to run a 4 speaker system with 2 amps(1 for bass and the other for the dual 15's) and a crossover to seperate the frequencies. Thats what i was thinking of. If yall know of something better let me know. Im open to all opinions cuz i want to make this setup/system last and hold me down for a while without me having to worry about any issues.

You can get an EQ, an active crossover,and a pair of dual channel compressor/limiters instead of a driverack. But you'll spend more money, and need more rack space for it. The Driverack PA (like anything DBX) has a good track record and will do what you say you want, with the option later to bi-amp your top cabinets because it can do 2 x 3-way out also.

The most important thing with your external processing is to set it right. Choose the right crossover points, and have limiters on each output to prevent amps from clipping.

You are right, alot more money and rack space. The whole limiter thing.... i have to learn a little more, im not to sure how to use one of those or how to set it up. i think i might just get a driverack, but ive been told that its complicated to use. Somebody in my area is selling a "like new" driverack for $275

Anybody else?

Is there anybody else?

Sorry Rob - Low ... I was in Vegas for the past 5 days ... Just got home. \

I'll talk to the guys in production on monday and get you a price on the 2 boxes you wanted originaly.

Holes cut for 2 15's and a 1" compression driver (Faital or Beyma) with horn.

Also a 2 way passive x-over.

i've built hundreds of speaker cabinets. 1 word: fiberglass

a-swift ... Shut it down. This ain't car audio.

dude, there is NO point in having dual 15's as mid/high speakers. seriously. the point of mass-produced dual 15" cabs is for big bass response which you'd effectively be killing by using it as a mid/high cab. not to mention, in the best scenario you want to have the horns up high, which will be much harder to do with a massive dual 15" cab. so at the end of the day, you'll have a mediocre sounding system with twice the weight and weak coverage, and a LOT of wasted amplifier power.

my uneducated 2 cents.

my recommendation if you're planning on taking the subs out to all events is to get a GOOD 12" cab as your mid/hi cab. at my job we have EAW LA-212's for this purpose... crossed over with a DBX DriveRack 260 (flawless so far, and saves us a lot of rack space). We run these with EAW FR-250Z dual 15" subs for low end. I've run this system as my DJ system on a number of occasions- it's been great. (I work doing AV support at my university, they've been cool enough to rent me equipment at a deep discount when i first started, or when i need it for big events). Great headroom and very versatile, i can run 1 or 2 subs with 2-4 tops- and you can get the tops up high over the crowd for solid coverage.

a good compromise for a lot of DJ's is a 15" cab. Solid bass response and can be used standalone for a small gig, but can be crossed over with a pair of subs. They're not as accurate as a 12" cab, and the MAJOR difference with what you're doing is that a SINGLE 15" cab can be flown or lifted above the audience easily compared to a dual 15".

Again, my uneducated opinion, but I really think that the first scenario is the best way to go for you. It would be reasonably compact and very versatile.

ok matt you got me. i've built hundreds of speakers cabinets and exactly zero that were not built for something on wheels. mostly because if your target space is on wheels, 10 years ago it was almost guaranteed that the best option for your case was a custom build. i'm not so sure anymore.

one think i AM sure of though, if you need a fit for a mobile, studio, home or whatever. it's almost certain that an off the shelf product will be a better overall value when taking all things into consideration. things like cost, time spent, build quality and other considerations.

hot topic and ripe for disagreement but like any other topic,... everyone has an opinion

hey Mad Matt!

what about horn subwofers?
where can I order this baltic wood in central europe?

I was in the Car Audio game about 15 years ago. I worked for a nationaly known shop (PJ's Autosound) that put out a ton of first place IASCA winning cars. Concete Sub boxes, Motorization etc.

Then a bunch of us started doing SPL for USAC. My one roomate took first place in nationals. 20 15"s in an Asro Van 251-500 Watts at 157db. That wasnt outlaw spl either ... That was on the dash. Ive been around that for a while which is why I knew where you were going with the fiberglass.

Off the shelf products are definatly not always a better value. There are times when it is and I do agree with that. Usually only when price is concerend but definatly not quality and if your good then time spent isnt really a concern especailly if you care more about the end product then you do the sale.

I love hearing, "I've never heard anything sound that good in my life" After that, nothing else matters. Its all about sound.

Just like anything but mostly in audio, there is always a give and take. In reality, the best subwoofer boxes should be made out of concrete but their not practical for moving around.

Now a days, companies that used to put out a decent quality speaker have went down the tubes. Cheapen-ing up their product just for the sales. Cheaper build, cheaper price, prettier exterior (Cough Cough JBL) If you were in the car audio game, you might remember when Alpine did this.

Here is the biggest difference between commercial cabinents and pro cabinents:

Commercial Cabinets are layed out so they can get the most wood out of the sheet without waste. If the box ends up being half a cubic foot smaller then it should be, oh well. The company saved $75,000 in production that year which is good for them but obviously not the consumer who knows that.

Pro Cabinents are built the way they need to be built. If there is wasted wood then so be it. Not to mention if they are to be flown, you build it with Flyware and no handles or vice versa. Also some touring companies are still using socapex and syntax connectors on their speakers so you have to be able to offer those jack plates if speakons arn't needed

If your straight shopping price then there is no doubt commercial is the way to go. But if you want something for the quality, then pro is the only way to go.



What do you want to know about horn loaded subs? We have a sick ported horn loaded cabinent loaded with a single 2400 watt 21" Sub. That box has more output than (3) EAW SB850's which is (6) 18's and the best part is you only need a fraction of the power.

Just google 13 Ply Baltic Birch The good stuff comes from Russia.

Dont worry about it matt, its all good. Thanks for remembering about me. How was vegas?

Maybe you guys are misunderstanding me when i say mid/highs. I mean mid-bass with highs. The plan is to have the mid-dass and highs come from the dual 15, and the BIG bass come from a bass bottom speaker dedicated to only hard chest thumping bass. My reason for this is because, i dont always need the extra bass cabinets. I would like for the dual 15 to be like a full range so i can just use those when neccessary. If its just mids/highs as you are thinking, then i wouldnt be able to use the dual 15 by itself as a stand alone system for smaller gigs. Get me? Ive seen it done by plenty of people that i know, so i know it works good, maybe im doing a poor job of explaining it. I hope this cleared it up a little bit.


BTW look what i just bought off a friend of a friend for DIRT CHEAP. This is not an pic that i took myself, i pulled this off the web just to show you guys. JBL TR225

www.sl-solutions.ch

Looks like all you need is a couple subs now.

if you're just running subs and a pair of tops, like those speakers you posted and a pair of subs, then i know EXACTLY what you're talking about. i'm not saying it wont work, im saying its a waste.

a single 15" cab with horn works fine for small gigs. think eons or for passive speakers, Yamaha S115-V's or similar. any bigger you should be bringing a sub and an active crossover.

like i said, dual 15's, are, in my humble opinion, a waste of money for mobiles. running full range, they have a purpose as they have big bass, but you cant elevate them above the crowd easily unless you're on a stage, giving you less coverage as you should ideally have your horns above the crowd.

as a mid/hi cab (which is EXACTLY what you're talking about... if you're trying to do "mid-bass" as you call it, then you're planning on building a 4-way crossed over system, which i don't think you're doing) its kind of a waste... a good 12" does the job, or even a single 15 and it would be easy to raise above the crowd and give you similar response since, again the main advantage of the double 15" is bass.

but that's just my 2 cents. especially if you bought them already, doesn't matter. i'm sure they'll be fine there's just easier ways to get the result you're looking for.

Yep, and the amps to puh them LOL. Im still gonna need cabinets for the kappas tho

Ok i see what you are saying now. So how about i take the kappas that i have and put those in a single 15 cabinet with a titanium horn. I have 4 kappas, and they are reel good. Check the link above...... Actually, according to my calculations, if i get some cerwin vegas(which i was thinking about) and put the dual 15 on top, it will be above the crowd, but you are correct. That was a part of my concern(the volume decreasing because of people blocking the sound), You on point dj_elite , and i appreciate the input.

If you stand dual 15" Sub cabinents on end, the horns in your JBL's will be high enough and clear all heads.

www.faceaudio.com
Best amps Ive seen in years for the money. I run a lot of the Titanium Series. I'm running 6 now and am about to buy another 3.

yeah with the vegas it should work out, but again, it's kind of a waste to cross over a pair of dual 15's. i really don't know why you're so caught up on building your own cabs- it's tough work and unless you really know what you're doing, they wont sound as great as something you buy. ideally i would recommend moving your 15" drivers and the JBL's you bought and use it on something closer to what i recommended. it'd be a modular system if you had a pair of 15"+horn tops and a pair of subs- you could do small gigs with just the 15"s on sticks and as the job gets bigger, bring one sub, or two... and you wouldn't need more than two amps, ever (bridge one on the subs and stereo the tops). and you could cover decent size venues/jobs.

I really would recommend a driverack PA too, it's a great piece of gear at a good price. we have two of them at my job for a few years now and they've been ROCK solid. never had an issue with either of them.


DJ Madd Matt: Your recommendations are very solid and you obviously know your stuff, which is MUCH more than me. however, i really think the level of quality and price that you're looking at is beyond the reach of this guy and a lot of regular DJ's. although those face amps do look like a great deal- i was expecting them to be much more expensive (a la lab-gruppen). i might bring them up at work- although they're pretty heavy- that top one on the digital series is 60lbs- we're currently running QSC PLX amps at about 1/3 of that since we do a lot of mobile work. Obviously, i mean no offense by this.

Im not trying build my own cabs, ive been there and done that, it takes to much time that i dont have. I have to do something with them 4 woofers that i have, i DONT wanna sell them. I get your point tho. Im just tryna have options for different gigs as you mentioned here:



I was thinking about it, but i really dont trust/like "All In One" products. Althought the driverack saves alot of space and weight. I really gotta think about that. I heard it was hard to use also.



Thats not true, i just know what i want. Ive been doing this for a while now and been through all the good and the bad and the horrible of djing and sound systems. Like i said earlier, i just want options.

ah ok i get you now. well anyway, i gave my two cents... your mileage may vary, but that's how i would do it.

dj_elite ... When you A/B the Face Titanium Amps with the PLX's ... hahahahah ... dont be suprised if you just throw the QSC's in the Trash. The difference in sound quality is unreal.

Now ... you do realize that Face does make a Digital Amp too right? I mean if your used to the plx's you should try the Face Digital ones ... They are like 18 lbs. I havnt got to try the Digital ones yet. I'd almost bet they sound better than the plx's. I do mostly fixed install stuff thats why I always run traditional supplys.

All my installs are using "all in one units" Never had one fail.

I run the Lake Contour, Ram Audio LMS-266, Ashly Protea 4.24c and belive it or not ... The unit that I think deserves a big pat on the back ... The Behringer ULTRADRIVE PRO DCX2496.

For $270 ... It Blows the Driverack PA ($500.00) out of the fucking water. You can't even program the Driverack PA from a Laptop. I run a bunch of the Behringers and they sound incredible and are very easy to program especially when I tune a room, I sit in the middle of it for most of the tuning. Its nice to have your laptop right there controlling the DSP unit in the other room.

So don't be afraid to try the Behringer .. It's worth the $270 all day long. Plus it saves wear and tear on your sneakers running back and forth changing settings.

Wow Are u serious, behringer, im surprised to hear that. Now u kinda built my confidence in the all in one systems since u do installs with them all the time and never had a fail. I need to hear things like that to make me wanna give it a try, especially when i gotta spend my cash. LOL

Yeah ... as Behringer is looked at so badly by some pro's, Ive done the Testing in extreme enviroments with it ... I'd use the behringer for $270 before I used mostly anything else ... There is nothing close to it for the money.

Thats why i do a lot of installs. Testing is everything and I've tested a lot. My $30,000.00 club installs sound better than most $100,000.00 Plus Installs. Thats a great selling point.

I do all the nightclub and bigger bar installs in my city. Not to mention, I own the 2 biggest venues. There is a lot to be said when you do all the audio for all your competition.

They don't consider it a confict of interest because I've proven myself for many years. They also know that sound is my passion.

There was an article written about me in the May Issue of Club Systems International back in 2006. It's posted on my "Synergy Pro Audio" myspace page.

profile.myspace.com

Sounds good but complicated
www.behringer.com

I'll help ya with setting it up ... No problem there. I can even set it up here without having the unit and send you the file to load ... done!

WOW impressive

Now thats technology for yo ass, thats CRAZY, but in a good way.

I think i might get it

no shit huh. i'll bring up those amps at work, we like new toys. but we definitely do a lot of mobile work so weight is a serious consideration, which is why we like those QSC's so much- huge power in 20lbs worth of amp- we do M&R on a few installs but rarely do them ourselves. the most important one being inside the arena of a top 10 college basketball team. they just dropped a shitload of money to replace the crappy old sound system and im still getting used to the new digs... full install with EAW packs all around (custom painted to match the old, formerly white paint of the stadium), Lab-Gruppen amps, and a Yamaha LS-9 mixer that we control via laptop from the scorers table.

i'm surprised about the behringer, but i've also heard great reviews of it before you. we do laptop control, so i guess we have the driverack 260- never noticed until now actually. how's behringer's software? the DBX software isn't much, to be honest.

+1 on the Behringer.

Running 3 of them in 3 amp racks in this pic. picasaweb.google.com

Love the ASD120's ... I install them in most of the installs I do. At least the ones i dont work in.

As far as the Behringer software ... Uhhhhh .. Its pretty basic. Nothing like Lake's at all but if you wanna spend the 4 G's on the Lake then your allowed to bitch.

However, Its layed out how it needs to be. Not pretty but basic and to the point. You can understand it (If you know audio somewhat) .. Its only $270.00 and most people could not hear the difference between that and the $4000.00 Lake or $2500.00 XTA. PERIOD....

BTW ... The Little Trooper knows his shit very well too. So if its REAL Pro Shit you have a question about ... Listen to him as well.

And, Also ... Can I hear the difference in the processing (Lake to Behringer)... The answer to that is yes. But most can't. So is it worth $3600.00 more? Sometimes it is. Thats a whole another chapter.

That Behringer unit is as good as most processors that cost 4-5 times as much.

I think my favorite feature on it the auto-time alignment using a reference mic and the third input. If your setup moves around and your subs sit in front of your tops, like most line arrays do, you can place the reference mic at FOH connected to the C input, and the auto time alignment sends out low, mid and high pulses and delays accordingly so the sound waves will line up as if your speakers were stacked. then you can toggle the delay on and off to hear the difference.

That behringer sure sounds good

i have a loose wall on my 15" speaker cabinet so when it reaches peak levels it makes ridiculous vibrations....how and/or what do i use to secure the walls together again?

it's a Samson resound 15

i can tell it's the loose wall because you can see how it's seperating and also when i squeeze the walls together the vibrations go away..PLEASE HELP

When i had loose walls , i would reinforce the cabinet by opening up the speaker and and insert a 2x4 but the measurements have to be accurate. Then i would screw it in from the outside of the speaker. All you would see is a total of 4 screws on the outside of the speaker which no one would care about, or hardly notice.

can you just screw the two actual walls together?
any photos that could help?
or website references?

No, How? Unless im misunderstanding you.



Nah, I dont even have those speakers anymore.



Nah, you can try googling it.

Check this out------>images.google.com

Check out the piece of wood thats holding the front and back of the speaker. This is EXACTLY what im talikng about.

That is a hellacious sound system there buddy. Crown i-Techs AND POWERSOFT amps? Is that your setup? You must make crazy loot doing sound because you've got top-tier amperage going on there...

Belongs to a company I worked for in the past. I get to use that system coming up in August for the same annual event (Otakon Anime Convention).

The breakdown is the Itechs run the line array cabinets, the PowerSofts run the subs, and the smaller QSC based amp rack on the right runs the tri-amped (yes tri-amped) monitor rig.

^^^^All i can say is WOW!!!!!!!!!!!

Gotta Love the ASD-120's .. I use them a lot for nightclub installs. Totally emiminates phone calls about what order to turn things on / off. Or worse ... they do it however they feel like it ... POP! hahahahahah