Interested in this point too

I COMPLETELY agree with this post. This feature from the VCI-300 is much too important to do away with. This could definitely stop me from spending the $999 for this new product. SERATO.... you guys need to make sure this feature is availabe with the VCI-380.

Hey unit d,

This is something we are well aware of, however at this time there is no feature for this. However there are some great workarounds that you can use.

Keyboard short cuts are also very helpful and work just as effective as it being on the device.

Keyboard short cuts:

Left Deck
loop in: O
loop out: P
loop on / off: [

Right Deck:
loop in: L
loop out: ;
loop on / off: '

If you are wanting to delete that Loop, simply select 'Loop' on the vci-380 then hold 'Shift' and select the lit pad (that represents the loop). Please make sure you have the loop on so it is identifiable when you select 'Loop'.

I hope this helps.

Mak T,

Is this something that is to be included in the next update?

Even the basic option of 'do not jump to loop' in the setup menu would be a great help

great point from neil.a.scott to make it an option in the setup!

and probably quick to turn around as well, no?
please get this into the next update and make it quick.
it will make me l.o.v.e. the controller again ....and you guys.
it is SUCH a vital feature to DJ in peace.

Oh and please mark the stored loops on the track overview like before
or like the cue points do. The manual loop-setting I can handle with shorcuts
for now - thanks.

Hey guys,

Thank you for your suggestions. Our developers are consistently working hard to develop our software and are well aware of this issue, however i cannot say when an issue like this will be implemented.

Cheers.

I am absolutely shocket. The described short cut version is not practicable, because it only loops "one" single loop. If you have moore loops like in the VCI 300 up to 3, only one loop can pe programmed for looping.
It would be o.k. if the 4 upper Buttons (of the 8) will be the loop" in" and the buttons down are the loop out.
Please guys programm this its really important, cause auto loop and Roll loop in time is rather stressfuel, and often its not exatly 1/4 or 2/4.......... beats long.
The individual Loop Programming was my most used feature.

Why has this been gone ?

Help

Tegards Joe

Hey JohannesM,

Thank you for your suggestions. Once again, we aware of this issue and our developers are working hard to develop the software, however i cannot say when a feature like this will be implemented.

Cheers.

hello Mak,

Can the developers make this a priority and get it done already? Just get it done.
You are doing one update on your flagship product in four years and you are not nailing
the only one special feature of the old product offered. how can that be?

All these new extra slicing and rolling features are irrelevant to me I can tell you after two weeks of playing with them. I want to DJ like I did for years before, I dont want to make random noise at a button click.

This is not the product I want. I bought the controller practically blind via mailorder because it sold out everywhere within days of it's release. I trusted it would be well designed and have the feature continuity I would expect from any decent product line. Had I seen this unusable loop function mess in a shop I would have left it on the shelf.

Please sort it out and make it fast. This is highly disappointing after such a long wait.

Thank you.

Hey unit-d,

I work in the Support Department and therefore I'am not in the position to make changes or add features to any of our software or native controllers we oversee. What I can do though is pass on your suggestions and ideas to our Development team, but again, i cannot give you a timeframe to which these features will be implemented.

Vestax & Serato have worked hard together to produce a controller which implements a lot of new features, whilst also bringing along some of our previous features too. We think we've done a great job, however there were some features which didn't make it in. This doesn't mean that they are never coming, but I as I said earlier I just can't say when it may be.

Cheers

i see it like unit-d:

It was absolutely unexpected that the main functions of ITCH and the VCI 300 and of the SL1..2..3.. (yes individual loop is possible here since beginning, and yes you see, we are hardcore serato users and "CLIENTS" ) will not been working in the follow up version here (VCI 380).
The individual loop was the "main" feature and on the controler and had an "outstanding" place/space in the controler design also.
Lets face it.
i personally will wait for 4 weeks till an software update ist ready.
best case after that for serato is, i change back to my VCI 300.....



we know Mark, you will do your best and its not up to you, but bring it to the boys who decide that issue.

regards

Joe

Thanks for the support Joe.

If only I had not sold my VCI 300 already.... and If only the VCI 300 EQ nobs were not so damn small, stiff and slow to operate...

For an update on the loops section can I suggest you lean on the VCi 300 principle
by having a dedicated IN and OUT button button pairing per loop. A single button might just
not cover it. just copy the same functionality for 'passive' loop activation (a playing track can
run into an activated loop) and the jog wheel editing function.
like the sampler bank there could be 3 x vertical loop pairings per deck and one pair of buttons
to move back and forth between multiple banks.

you're not building an airplane right? this should not talk long at all to implement and roll out.

many thanks!

Dele

"random noise" at a button click.
Thats exaclty wat it does !!!
i am interested in viewing what dj is bringing that feature at the club.
But it seems to be a trend to become an "creative musican" with an controler :-(((
I keep these position at an producer...........dont go to far away from the original track, thats what the crowd is coming to hear and dance. Most of the crowd.
For the rest ............ buy an Midi Keyboard :-)

regards Joe

So, isn't there a feature on the VCI-380 to just select the 2nd loop i have stored without jumping to it? Is there a key to just highlight the 1st loop, then the 2nd, then the 3rd and so on?

Hey everyone,

Thanks for your feedback, it is much appreciated. As Mak has already stated, we don't have a timeframe for if and when this feature will be implemented, so I'm afraid we don't have any more information to give you sorry. We understand that you are upset about this feature not being included with the VCI-380, but currently the feature set will remain as it is now.

Cheers.

Thanks Michael.

Here is a general observation - In my 3+ years of using ITCH I have personally always perceived the Serato software development as being rather slow in terms of it's pacing and the frequency of updates. But much worse I perceive you as being BEHIND others in terms of innovation and some of your quality standards.

As one of two market leaders in the field, may I suggest the company put the appropriate resources behind both efforts and get moving. Surely none of the above features can take any
one developer more than a few days to implement.

With the kind of units Serato is shipping internationally I really see little ground for your unambitious attitude. That is unless you take our customer ship for granted and are doing a
bit too well for your own good.

I repeat - I along with others have waited years for an upgrade of the VCI 300.
I have held back from buying competitor products for over two years my patience with
you is wearing thin indeed. Its a very small consistency feature we are asking about
and it means a lot to us.

Thank you.

Thanks Michael.

Here is a general observation - In my 3+ years of using ITCH I have personally always perceived the Serato software development as being rather slow in terms of it's pacing and the frequency of updates. But much worse I perceive you as being BEHIND others in terms of innovation and some of your quality standards.

As one of two market leaders in the field, may I suggest the company put the appropriate resources behind both efforts and get moving. Surely none of the above features can take any
one developer more than a few days to implement.

With the kind of units Serato is shipping internationally I really see little ground for your unambitious attitude. That is unless you take our customer ship for granted and are doing a
bit too well for your own good.

I repeat - I along with others have waited years for an upgrade of the VCI 300.
I have held back from buying competitor products for over two years my patience with
you is wearing thin indeed. Its a very small consistency feature we are asking about
and it means a lot to us.

Thank you.

Hey unit-d,

I personally would say that I see the VCI-380 as being very innovative! The Pad-FX and Slicer are great new technology that can really add to your performance. Also the fact you can use the controller as a standalone mixer I think is a big plus too :)

We take all feedback on board, and try to respond where we can, but unfortunately we can't implement everything that everyone wants. I realise that this feature is important to you, but to another user it may not be, there may be another feature that is a must have for them. We have to balance and take this all into account when implementing features so that the most users will benefit from the changes we implement. As Mak mentioned before, with the VCI-380 we tried to bring the best of new and old features to the controller, and this did mean that some features of the VCI-300 did not make it in.

Please don't take this post as me dismissing your request, I'm just trying to manage your expectations regarding this and to clear up why it may not be that your feature request is not implemented quickly, or even at all.

Cheers.

It's a pretty consistent request that I see in the forums from VCI users.

Shift + Autoloop is an obvious place where this could go for VCI people -- that would be a Vestax mapping request I presume.

On the software side, a feature to disable "jump to" is also conceivable. I can understand how going down this road creates a inconsistent experience across controllers. What if a controller already has buttons that provide non-jumping loop engage/disengage functionality? What would the point of this option be for them?

The right place to implement the functionality is probably just in the controller mapping itself, which I presume is under Vestax's control.

Too bad there just isn't a way for people to mess with the factory mapping.

The current situation, however, is really jacked. How can we get this addressed? Let users modify factory mappings and/or lean on Vestax to fix their mapping?

I totally agree with what all these guys are saying and so are most people with a built up collection of saved loops in their music library from years of using your other products. No one wants to automatically jump to their saved loops when you turn them on its such a simple request I can't believe its there in the first place let alone that there isn't an option to turn it off!! Please get it sorted

+1

+1

+1

I was about to pull the trigger on a VCI-380 a couple of days ago. After using Scratch Live for 5 years, I expected to just plug in the 380, open up Itch and find the same basic functions available.

After reading about this issue in particular, it's put me off buying.

The mapping is worked out by both Serato and Vestax, and is ultimately implemented by Serato.

As I said earlier, I'm not dismissing the feature, I'm just saying that if it comes it may not be for a while.

Cheers.

Hey unit-d,

As I said earlier, what doesn't work for you might work for someone else. If we were to do something like this, we'd need to find a solution that works for everyone - not just removing the feature altogether. I'm not sure where you figured out it was "two lines of code", but regardless these things require time to work out the soultion, implement it and test it.

Not to keep repeating myself, by no promises on when or whether this will happen.

Cheers.

Jumping to your saved loops when you turn them on does not work for anyone thats why its has never been on scratch live or on the vci 300 I can safely say no one wants this turning it off will work for everyone

Thanks Jake.

Well Michael, there you have it. I'm not sure how much more of a ground swell of customer dissatisfaction you need to start acting. Perhaps some actual DJing with the thing would
further your understanding.

Loops are super essential for digital DJing believe it or not.
Your loops don't work any more.
Do you know what I do when I freak something up at work?
I owe up to my mistake and then I go and fix it.
Perhaps it is time you pass this up buddy.

Thank you.

Hey guys,

I understand that everyone in this thread wants this feature, and I've never said that we won't do it, but as I've mentioned numerous times before we can't guarantee if and when it will happen. This is the message I've been trying to get across to you all, it may not be the message that you want to hear and I understand that, but it is the message.

We appreciate all your feedback, and it has been noted, but repeating ourselves or throwing around insults isn't going to change this.

Let me just reiterate this for you all: We understand and appreciate that some of you don't like this feature, we are aware of this and we will review it, but I can't promise you a time frame or if the change will happen.

Cheers.

I strongly disagree

First of all, it IS in Scratch Live (CTRL click on Loop-on jumps to the loop)
And it is a feature that i also like on CD players and controllers. it is generally called the RELOOP button.
If nobody would use it why would it be on so many controllers, and even on CDJ 900s / 2000s etcetera. (industry standard)
Also, in Scratch Live this means with one Midi button and one Knob (to select), i basically have 9 more Cue Points per track.
It is also in ITCH with the VCI 300, as you can push the loop button first and then the cue, which is essentially the same thing.

Second, I also want the ability to turn loops on without jumping, but i definitely don't want the reloop function to be replaced by this, and it is not a deal breaker for me, as all my tracks have proper beat grids, and i usually don't run out of time at the end of a mix.

So please don't speak for everyone. This is not good forum etiquette and it also makes your point LESS valid, since you obviously assume things you can't actually know.


Again. I co-sign the initial request for loop enable / manual loops without jumping.
But the way YOU dj might not be the way for everybody else.

Peace.

There's a place for both. I think we are in a situation where what is perceived as basic/standard functionality (loop engage/disengage) has been omitted yet its somewhat more obscure cousin -- the jump to/reloop hot-cue -- takes main stage.

I certainly would encourage others to voice their opinion to Serato and Vestax. I can certainly understand that Michael R from Serato isn't in a position to make promises in the forums to customers. One can hope that the issue has been filed as an enhancement request in their internal feature/bug tracking system. His response would seem to indicate it is being tracked but clearly lacks further details. I can imagine there are some people internally at Serato who say "this is as designed" and others -- probably those with greater customer touch -- who may be more open to the idea that this needs to be fixed. It's a competitive space, and customer satisfaction is how the battle is won.

What a company that is striving for excellence in customer service should be doing, however, is to not lead people on with false hope. If you need to understand customer demand more, say that. Hopefully this will encourage others to voice their opinion or concerns on the matter. If this just ain't gonna happen, say that. We'll make our peace and move on, whatever way that may be.

Until then, this is all just group therapy and us blowing off steam... ;)

Hi everyone. Just found this thread. I too am completely baffled and stunned by the insane decision of manufacturers I trust(ed) to just go and remove a fundamental feature of digital mixing. As a longtime SSL/ITCH user, my brand new "top-of-the-line", "state-of-the-art" controller solution is literally useless to me without traditional looping functions. It now sits in box. More here: serato.com

its not the jumping to saved loops its the AUTOMATICALLY jumping to saved loops when you turn them on, as you said everything else has had the ability to this when you WANT to do it not just when you turn it on its blatantly and oversight and no one would ever want as it just ruins majority of your saved loops especially if you have multiple loops saved on 1 track

nothing i have ever used from serato has had the automatically jump to loops when you turn them on feature in so i stand by what i said and still that nobody with a library o saved loops would want this

+1

So sad that there are so many complainers for a such top notch product!

Time to Serato/Vestax to launch a global poll/survey on the VCI 380 saved loops management! I think that they will be very VERY surprised by the results because only new Serato users would probably prefer the automatic jump...but maybe we're all wrong and most of user will prefer this "new" feature...

But I have to admit that if there is no automatic jump, I will need a reloop function/button....

This whole jumping to loops fiasco has to be one of the biggest mistakes I've seen to date from Serato. What in the hell are they smoking?

+1

Can I reiterate some previous suggestions to solve this -

Lets just get an option tick box in the setup on this feature.
Or make the default NON JUMPING and add a +SHIFT & button press to jump to the loop.

Ore better yet lay it out like the old VCI 300 with 3 x 2 button pairings for loop/out setting and activation/deactivation. Like the Sampler bank function the fourth button pair can be used to go back and fourth between multiple banks.


I agree with Djkom earlier post the VCI 380 hardware is perfect.
If only it was not for this flopping Autoloops I would love it.

I'm really disappointed about this as it's a key feature for me.

Like the OP, I have been using the vci-300 mk1 since it came out and as such, I've also got hundreds of custom sized saved loops. I was ready to buy a 380, but I feel I can't perform to be best without being able to manually save, activate and trim loops on the fly like I can on the 300.

My suggestion to fix this is have different loops modes:

mode 1: autoloop as it is currently on the vci 380
mode 2: manual loop mode configured as follows:

Top row of pads:
pad1 pad2 pad3 pad4
loop1 /in loop2/in loop3/in loop4/in

Bottom row of pads:
pad5 pad6 pad7 pad8
loop1/out loop2/out loop3/out loop4/out

Ss the pads are RGB, the different modes would have different coloured pads and would give you a visual feedback of what loop mode you are in.

The probem would come for someone who had 8 loops / cue points set up.

Or, Serato could just open up midi mapping on "approved" itch controllers to solve the problem.

same here guys. the vci380 was supposed to be my ultimate dream controller, but the whole jumping loops thing is a deal breaker. i rely heavily on all my stored loops and can't perform like i always have without them.

Let's vote now!

www.polljunkie.com

Then maybe Serato will consider our query !!

The link pool is only available for 2 weeks, so please vote asap !!!

Don't hesitate to talk bring some friends to this poll !!!

Hi all,

I just came across this discussion as I'm also planning to replace my 3.5+ years VCI-300.
Like many others, I have a lot of saved loops in my music library I wish to use in a similar way to my actual controller.

Being a software engineer myself, I know product updates and changes take a certain time to accomplish. And, it should! Otherwise you could end up with a whole different product each time...and nobody want's that, trust me. In conclusion, possible changes have to be evaluated carefully and I think Serato's step-by-step development process is quite effective. So give them some credit for this (= trust), it's so easy to mess everything up!

Now, for the saved loop system I think the main concern for the owners of the VCI-380 and future buyers is to know, as soon as possible, if this "issue" is going to be really addressed and possibly how.
Like Matt Hite's post suggested, if it's designed to be like this the "the jump to/reloop hot-cue" is a logical choice for the developers and will remain so.
Nevertheless, Serato & Vestax have shown over the past few years they always try to meet their customers’ demand and probably will come up with a kind of [VCI-300 compatibility] or [choose your loop behavior] mode.

I think a hardware change is not a viable option, as it would lead to a lot of problems and confusion on the product. And letting users handle the mapping of their controllers is an option, though, in my opinion not a good idea (for now). It's one of the strongholds of Serato ITCH and wouldn’t bring the best out of the Pad-FX on the VCI-380.

Cheers.

P.S.: Buying the first batch is always a calculated risk

I would just like to know what possessed the guys at Serato/Vestax to make them believe that deleting the traditional behavior of selecting and turning on/off stored loops was ever a good idea to begin with. The addition of a feature like "jump to loops" I guess is fine because I realize some users may want this (although I don't know why since hitting a hot cue at the beginning of a stored loop does the same thing), but to do so at the expense of NOT including regular stored loops on/off functionality is just plain crazy. The thought of this line of thinking is what troubles me the most because it makes me wonder if they truly understand how their product is used in the field. Would someone from Serato/Vestax please share with us the their rational for this?

Great idea with the poll DJKom, but the question "Do you like the automatic jump into saved loop?" should probably read "Do you want stored loops to auto jump like a hot cue to REPLACE traditional on/off stored loops?" I only say this because while some users may be interested or like this new feature, the question of "are you willing to lose traditional looping for it?" is the real question.

Totally agree with Help plus I also want to ask.
Ok, so you have stored loops and buttons to jump to the loops.
Well, I have more than 20.000 mp3s', how am I supposed to remember what loops
I have saved in every track at least 2 loops, how the hell am i supposed to remember which is loop is where so i can press the right pad?

Yeah, you cant create this poll also !! It's free on this pollljunkies website

guys lets face it:
I have sold mi vci 380 for an little discount and stil working with my VCI 300 and the Sl1.
Positive for me is, i can use an old Netbook with 1.6 Intel Ato 2GB Ram and 12GB SSD (and external USB drive) as an "Emergency" Sstem for ITCH 2.0 and Scrat Live 2.4 (yes wth dicers) and this runs.



I will not kill my Loop points with this funny keyboard gimmik.

So if you have news............feel free to inform us
Therewhile i rite some rezessions about th 380, for everyone who wants to know, adn also for these who wants not :-)))))))))))))

Regards

Joe

Sound choice. I will definitely follow suit if this will not be adressed in the very near future.

Can someone from Serato please answer my question from the other (closed) thread?



^

Does this statement from Matt P mean that SSL-style saved loop on/off behaviour cannot be added on the 380 without a hardware re-design? Is it technically impossible to have this feature on the current VCI-380?

Yes, PLEASE answer this because there are many users who are contemplating right now as to whether or not keep or return their VCI-380 based on whether or not traditional looping will be coming to the VCI-380 through a software update.

Hey guys,

Any changes made to looping would be done in the software, there would be no changes required to the hardware.

I hope that clears thing up :)

Cheers.

yes, but WILL normal looping behavior of stored loops be coming to itch software that is compatible with vci380, and if so, when? that is is the burning question.

Thanks Michael.

I'll keep an eye out for developments. As I said earlier, the lack of this looping behaviour is what's stopping me buying a 380 at present.




I think they've answered that as best they can, [O/][iii][O/]. You're not going to get a firm commitment as things stand. Doesn't matter how many times the question is asked.

i'm with you on this then. not buying vci380 unless looping behavior gets straightened out.

I think serato is trying to pass the concept that the "traditional looping yes or no" is a personal concept for any dj. I think there is some actions we can not describe as reasonables, one of these is not include the traditional looping in a new machine, a machine that we expected more complete than the previous. In example the first cdj have had only few functions and one of this was the manual loop. I think is like a new version of a car, you have buy it but you realized that don't have the lights! You can say not all the users need lights in a car but, reasonably, its a basic function. I think (independently of my necessity) if you made a new product (same tipology: VCI) you must add and no cut functions. It is a general rule, not a point of view. I think you can't say "cannot say when an issue like this will be implemented", I think this is a operative mistake and you would must give us a precise answer about time and modality. Sorry for my english. I love you anyway.

Couldn't agree more. The precedent was already set FROM Vestax and Serato for the VCI-380 by its predecessors the VCI-300 and VCI-300MKII. The ability to engage stored loops is expected to be the same based on this precedent. Not having the ability to engage stored loops like before is completely unexpected. Adding a new behavior for this feature is fine and dandy, but the key word is "ADD" not "REPLACE". Blows me away that Serato and Vestax wouldn't have known all this and the negative response they would get by choosing to just delete traditional looping behavior. Again, not buying another controller from them until they re-implement traditional looping.

Come on Serato folks.... tell us something! We're not gonna let this die down! This was a ridiculously HUGE mistake on your part, and we're gonna keep asking..... "WHEN ARE YOU GOING TO RELEASE A SOFTWARE UPDATE FOR THE VCI-380 THAT GIVES US BACK THE SAME LOOPING ABILITIES FROM THE VCI-300???"

I've ended up selling my vci 380 over this issue, not something I really wanted to do but like everyone else here I assumed that it would have at least the same loop functions as the vci 300, an assumption thats ended up costing me money. I feel a bit let down over this, I've been using serato from the get go and will continue to do so but feel they have dropped the ball on this and have made a very well designed piece of tech half useless for many long time users who rely on their library of loops and normal loop functions

I've ended up selling my vci 380 over this issue, not something I really wanted to do but like everyone else here I assumed that it would have at least the same loop functions as the vci 300, an assumption thats ended up costing me money. I feel a bit let down over this, I've been using serato from the get go and will continue to do so but feel they have dropped the ball on this and have made a very well designed piece of tech half useless for many long time users who rely on their library of loops and normal loop functions

I've ended up selling my vci 380 over this issue, not something I really wanted to do but like everyone else here I assumed that it would have at least the same loop functions as the vci 300, an assumption thats ended up costing me money. I feel a bit let down over this, I've been using serato from the get go and will continue to do so but feel they have dropped the ball on this and have made a very well designed piece of tech half useless for many long time users who rely on their library of loops and normal loop functions

I've ended up selling my vci 380 over this issue, not something I really wanted to do but like everyone else here I assumed that it would have at least the same loop functions as the vci 300, an assumption thats ended up costing me money. I feel a bit let down over this, I've been using serato from the get go and will continue to do so but feel they have dropped the ball on this and have made a very well designed piece of tech half useless for many long time users who rely on their library of loops and normal loop functions

Sadly returned the VCI-380 as well due to it missing regular looping. Know of a couple of others who did the same thing. Very poor decision on the developer's part to surprise longtime users by deleting such basic functionality that's required by many.

I too am contemplating selling my 380 solely due to the 'jump to loop' function that have rendered my 100s of carefully crafted SL loops useless. Please please can you sort this fundamental issue out via a software update ASAP!

Michael or Mak,

can we please get an update on the status of your review?

surely this issue must have been discussed at some point in a meeting at Serato.

It would be in every ones interest to learn weather and perhaps when this issue will be addressed.

many thanks!

Had to check back in, and WOW! www.polljunkie.com

83% No, 17% Yes in favor of jumping loops. Would've been nice if Serato had conducted such a poll prior to deciding to just get rid of normal looping.

Michael.... Mak..... what's the latest from Serato regarding this discussion? You already see that people are immediately buying and selling their VCI-380's.... yet you guys continue to treat your loyal customers like step-children by keeping us in the dark..... very disrespectful. The VERY LEAST you can do is give us an update.

Learned last week of yet another local who quickly returned his 380 after discovering the looping mess.

Hey everyone,

Thanks for the feedback everyone. As I said earlier, we don't have a timeframe for if and when this feature will be implemented so I don't have a date I can give you sorry. I know this is upsetting, but we don't announce dates for future releases.

Cheers.

Michael,

I am sorry but to think it is okay to continue to come back with this non-reply in the face of growing customer dissatisfaction and exodus is outrageous.

I would like to know which manager in his right mind at Serato is sanctioning this.
Especially looking at the size of the actual change task - this is NOT a major re-programming
effort at all and clearly something that matters enormously.

You do not seem to be receiving the message one bit.
I am going to start calling your office and would call for others to do the same.
Someone needs to get a handle on this.

D.

Verrrrrrry good idea unit-d.

Definitely. I would much prefer that Serato staff spend their time speaking to people on the phone about issues they already know about, rather than working on the software.

A great plan. You're a genius.

Hey everybody... looks like phatbob is the "REAL GENIUS" here. 1.) According to his line of thinking "IF COMPANIES AND ORGANIZATIONS ALREADY KNOW THAT A PROBLEM EXISTS, THEN THE PEOPLE/CUSTOMERS SHOULD JUST SIT BACK AND WAIT INDEFINITELY... HOPING THAT THEY DO THE RIGHT THING!" So if I may use a basic analogy..... I guess the Civil Rights Movement here in the United States was a COMPLETE WASTE OF TIME because, according to phatbob, the United States government was "ALREADY AWARE" of the injustice that was taking place? 2.) Also.... according to phatbob, he considers it to be a "WASTE OF TIME" for a company that develops DJ software to actually "TALK TO DJ'S/CUSTOMERS" about what we are look for, which ultimately allows them to develop the highest level product that they possible can in terms of software.

So phatbob, how about you keep your condescending comments to yourself, unless of course you just enjoy making yourself look like a complete and total ass... because if that's the case, then by all means..... CARRY ON.

Complaining about stored loop behaviour in a bit of software = the civil rights movement.

Great analogy. Only offensive on a few different levels.

I'm not suggesting people shouldn't have their voices heard. Guess what, we're in a thread where people have done that, and Serato have acknowledged their concerns within the same thread.

All I'm suggesting is that harassing them over the phone over the same issue is just about the least productive thing for everyone.

You couldn't be more wrong phatbob. This is how this works.... if the company doesn't feel like there's enough concern about the issue from the software user community, then they won't consider it to be a priority. If it's not considered to be a priority, then we're indefinitely "ASSED OUT" in regards to this much needed software update. Now ask yourself this question... do your REALLY and truly believe that the software engineers are the same people who are gonna spend time answer the phone lines in regards to our concerns??? HELLOOOO..... they have a staff to field phone calls. What are you 8 years old? Why are you acting as if you have no basic concept of this?

If you have a problem with the methods that paying customers use to contact Serato about their issues and concerns, then maybe you should start up a totally separate forum discussion about that and depart from this specific conversation.

If you don't think Serato have heard loud and clear from their customers on this one, you should probably pay more attention.

This thread makes it abundantly clear. As do the numerous other threads on the same topic.

What do you think phoning them will achieve that the forum threads don't? Apart from requiring Serato to divert more funding to phone service reps rather than spending it on more developers. Because, as you say yourself, developers aren't the ones answering the phone.

If you really want to voice your concerns personally, send an email to support.

Sounds to me like you just want the chance to have a go at somebody on the phone. Perhaps you should calm down a little bit.

Uhhhh.... phatbob.... maybe you missed this quote from Michael, the guy who works for Serato. What he said was.... "we don't have a timeframe for if and when this feature will be implemented". Do you know what that means phatbob? It means that there's a possibility that it may never be implemented. So.... that response may be sufficient enough for you, and if that's the case, then why are you even on here commenting? But as you can CLEARLY see... for many other DJ's who have paid their hard earned money for this product, that response is NOT and will NEVER be acceptable.

So listen up boys and girls..... the moral of phatbob's story is, when ever you have a problem or an issue, instead of facing the problem head on and doing everything you can to get the problem corrected expeditiously, you should just just let your tail hang in between your legs and "HOPE" that "MAYBE" someday the problem will fix itself.

Sorry phatbob, but there are some grown ass men out here who don't live our lives like that.... especially when it comes to our DJ equipment. If this is not an important issue to you, then just leave the forum... because you're REALLY making yourself look like a mole who's just here to divert us from gettin' on Serato's ass about this.

Again you seem to misread or wilfully misunderstand my point, so not much point trying to argue with you.



This line is my favourite.

My history on this forum speaks for itself, thanks.

So if we look at your "history on this forum", are we gonna find more completely inappropriate and condescending comments like that one you made based on unit-d's decision to call Serato???

phatbob - "Definitely. I would much prefer that Serato staff spend their time speaking to people on the phone about issues they already know about, rather than working on the software.

A great plan. You're a genius."

Do you know what that comment looks like phatbob? It looks like a comment from somebody who got bullied way too often in school and now wants to feel good about himself by becoming yet another "online smart ass". NOBODY is gonna care about your "history on this forum" when you come across like a complete and total asshole for NO GOOD REASON AT ALL.

You should probably ponder on that for a while my fellow DJ.

You're absolutely right.

I shall go and take a long hard look at my life and where it all went wrong.

Yes my good mole.... OOPS.... I mean my good man. And you should probably focus on that very important part of your life when your balls stopped growing... because that's most likely the reason why you're so overly passive when it comes to confrontations as a dissatisfied customer. We can continue your therapy session next week after you've had some quality time to reflect. LOL

(FYI - Now THAT was meant to be nothing more than a joke in response to your last comical statement phatbob, so don't get all under your skin pal.)

Finally, we're speaking on a decent level LOL

Look dude, I have no problem with 'consumer power'. The reason I mentioned my history on the forum is that I'm one of the people who complained constantly about Serato cutting off MixEmergency.

But I stand by my assertion that phoning up Serato all the time about this issue is just a waste of everyone's time.

They clearly know how people feel, there was even the poll which they have seen; you know they've read this thread.

Serato are never going to commit to changes or a timeline because that could come back to bite them in the ass (see: Bridge for Itch).

In the meantime if anyone feels that strongly about the issue, and are unable to wait, they can return their 380, or not buy one in the first place. That's REAL consumer power, because that hits Vestax (and therefore Serato) where it really hurts; in their pocket.

phatbob... I totally respect your point of view in regards to everything you just said. I just don't happen to agree with it. For you to say "They clearly know how people feel" is an assumption... not a fact. I don't know "for a fact" that this company knows how I feel. When a company's spokesperson makes general statements like "Your feedback has been noted.... that's just not gonna cut it my man.

Now... I do COMPLETELY understand what their position is. I know that they can't make any "specific" commitments. (Yes... Bridge for Itch was a great example) But unlike that situation... the HUGE DIFFERENCE here is... people didn't go out and spend their money on the Bridge for ITCH. The fact that it never came out didn't COST any DJ's any money. This situation has cost DJ's a shit load of money and many of them have lost access to their normal work flow.... and now we're screwed! Obviously many of us had NO CLUE that they had removed these key features. They didn't remove them when they came out with the VCI-300MKII, so what reason did we have to believe they wouldn't been removed with the release of the 380??? Because we were unaware, we lost the consumer power. We lost the power of choice simply because we didn't know... and this puts Serato and Vestax totally at fault.

Ultimately, I want to keep my 380 because I actually love it. All except for this one ridiculous set back. So after spending my money on this item... and it being common knowledge that THEY are the ones who fucked up with this "crazy design decision", I'm gonna keep pounding away. I'm gonna make sure my voice is heard until I see another update release. Do you think I care who I disturb in their nice little office building knowing that I just spent $899.99 plus tax of my hard earned cash on this baby??? Shiiiiiiiiiit!!!!

And it's officially a done deal for me! 4 extremely important shows to perform at between last weekend, yesterday, and next week... so I couldn't afford to fuck around. I took a $300.00 loss by selling my VCI-380 and I bought another VCI-300MKII. Thanks Serato. Thanks Vestax.

^^^sorry to hear that, hope u make back enough selling the vci300 when you have to purchase the vci380 again in the near future... ;)

First of all I'd like to point out that the VCI-380 seems to be a very professional device for me.

The most important facts for me when buying it were:
- buttons to trigger samples in the SP-6.
- the enhanced quality of knobs
- better audio quality and

Furthermore I got:
- a standalone mixer (don't need it now because all the clubs do have mixers I just connect to)
- XLR (don't need it now because all the clubs do have mixers I just connect to) and
- new slicer/roll functions (did try them but for now these are out of scope for me)

What I didn't get was adequate support for the SP-6 because I mostly use cue points and samples at once and unfortunately they use the same buttons (having to use shift makes it even worse).

Furthermore I lost the loop function I was so used to.

That's why I'm currently quite a bit disenchanted by the the vci-380 (or to be exact by the loop/roll/slicer-button-section).

I hope my voice can raise the priority of the request in this thread a little.

I still want to add that I'm team lead in a software company and I do have 5+ years experience in Scrum. Because Serato also uses Scrum (which is very good) I would hope there could be a little bit more information available to the customers.

Did the product owner of the ITCH-team get to know about the request already?
Is the request even on the product backlog already?
Does it have a high or low priority?
Are there other customer requests the team is currently busy fixing? - like the recording issue
How do you take requests from your customers into the product development cycle?

I also know that it's hard to communicate a timeframe for features that currently do not have the highest priority when using Scrum because the backlog is very volatile. But still more information on the current state of this request (even without a timeframe) would make us know if the request already made it on the list of a porduct owner.

I'd really appreciate a reply.

Yeah, I bet they will definitely tell you all that.

I mean, with you being such a big contributor to the community and all.

Good news!

I fixed the problem!

djbulge.com

ROFL

Loving your work!

Nice one!

Not sure if this has been brought up but...

Twitch users have also complained about this too as it first reared it's ugly head this time last year. Have a look in the twitch forum and see the comments there. It looks like it's here to stay as they never listened to us there too. It's the reason I don't use my Twitch as I loop like crazy and the SL3 is used every night. They ruined the looping system by killing a familiar workflow.

Twitch never got an update and neither will the VCI-380 as they have designed it this way.

Take a look at both the units. What do they both have in common apart from a crap looping system that renders my hundreds of stored loops useless without keyboard bashing?

The "Slicer".

#justsayin

serato.com

Matt P's response is interesting.

serato.com

Look at Logan's response about changing the behaviour too.

serato.com

Here is another...

serato.com

And again!

Jeez,

Based on the comments in the other threads, linked by Mr Wilks above, this issue was initially raised (and logged!) nearly 13 months ago (if not earlier)!

I really hope we get a fix soon; I'm losing my mind checking the site every morning to see if an update has been released...

If enough people make some noise then it may get looked into by Serato as just the Twitch owners alone never got a result. It was acknowledged as something to change over a year ago.

I absolutely hate the current way of jumping, unquantized, to a loop when mixing. Loops aren't cues so shouldn't behave like one when activated and if we wanted to jump to one we'd have cue points set up at the start of a loop. There is eight after all.

Good luck guys as us Twitch owners pass the baton for you to take up now.

I think the biggest beef here is that the traditional "pick up" of loops has been replaced with a "Reloop" function, but nothing has been said.

If this is intended then Serato please call it a Reloop function and say the original Itch way of doing things has changed.

Explain that a new workflow has to be learned and that the way you have previously used Itch and Scratch has now changed and that these controllers "Now incorporate the much anticipated and requested function of Reloop" for added fun of guessing whether your next stored loop will be on the beat or be out just enough to sound like "boots in a tumble dryer" as you inadvertently hit the wrong loop during a mix.

Let's call the the new way "reloop" from now on, as effectively that's what it it is. The functionality has changed in Itch and unless you researched it, didn't expect it.
How mad would you be if you got your shiny new controller home and CUE points worked very differently from previous versions of Itch or Scratch, and it wasn't officially documented?

Stored loops in Twitch have not been used since I bought the unit. To be honest, the whole unit hasn't really. Shame really as it has crippled this fantastic bit of kit.

Word.

@Mr Wilks
man thanks for joining this discussion and posting the links to the Twitch discussion.
It is indeed spectacular we are still her talking about this 13 months later!

'Loops aren't cues so shouldn't behave like one when activated and if we wanted to jump to one we'd have cue points set up at the start of a loop. There is eight after all.'
This wraps up the argument perfectly.

I want to recap a suggestion I made earlier in the post

LET's JUST GO BACK TO THE VCI 300 LOOP PRINCIPLE
It was all done the right way in a previous version already you guys at serato.

-Have a dedicated IN and OUT button pairing per loop
-3 x vertical button pairings per loop
-1 x pair to move back and forth between multiple banks (like the Sampler)
- have different colours on the loop buttons, corresponding to loop marking on the track.
- hitting the IN button on activates loop and jumps the playhead there
- hitting the OUT button activates loop in a soft takeover
- shift+IN/OUT + deck platter to edit loop point
- shift+IN/OUT delete loop point


A single button per loop does not cover all the functionality needed for a loop.
Current arrangement for loop editing with keyboard shotcuts is a nightmare.
The autoloop section toggling loop length and loop banks is the worst idea EVER.

And let's get this problem sorted out PLEASE.

I like this approach as it's instantly more familiar to me, but having a "bank toggle" would likely be tricky to implement and require GUI changes.

BUT... I am sure most peeps would be happy to compromise with 4x loops with dedicated loop in/out buttons, it's still one more than the VCI-300 supported.

BUT... it represents a large functionality change so I doubt it would be implemented (without a LOT of screaming) --- again perhaps settings checkbox.

[X] manual loop mode

@thebulge

Sure you are right straight 4 x loops would likely be be totally fine for most users too.

The most important thing is that we get some movement on this this issue.

I can not believe the Twitch users had that discussion 13 months ago already.

And here we are discussing the same thoughtless flop design in the flagship
controller a year later, I want to smoke what they are smoking at Serato!

This looping mess has created so much havoc for the VCI-380 and Twitch it's not even funny.

Why couldn't they had just left looping alone so it behaves like it does on every other ITCH controller AND Serato Scratch LIVE?

Keep it simple guys.

...yes simple functional and CONSISTANT with the previous product legacy.
K.I.S.S. principle- Keep it simple sweetie. Before anything else we get the basics right.

like neil.a.scott here I'm searching for an upgrade or alternative every other day.
In a vestax product video there was talk of an open midi standard and the hardware being essentially open to other software as well. If anything else comes along to drive this thing
Virtual DJ, Traktor being my biggest hope, or whatever I might well be OFF Itch.

I'd start a new thread about that implementation as discussed above, and then vote on it. I think it's realistic and would be the most consistent to implement.

4xLoops with In/Out buttons... out engages a loop without jumping... In jumps to the loop and engages.

Loops can be colour coded in GUI - and can go green when engaged - like VCI-300.

I never had an issue with only having 3 loops on the VCI-300, I did have an issue with only have 3 cue points though.

So with a VCI-380 with 8 cues... and 4x "manual" loops (effectively replacing the current saved loop mode implementation - via a checkbox for anyone that likes the current implementation)

I think the VCI-380 would be as close to perfect as you can get on a controller. (if only I had a hamster switch - :) ).

+1

yes totally.

but then what you dont have is the ability to set auto loops.

this could be set up as a secondary option on the auto loops function tab,
like Hot Cue / Sampler

Let me guess, there's a VCI-380 MKII waiting in the wings for those who got suckered into buying the VCI-380 that will fix the looping fiasco like the VCI-300 MKII fixed the poor output issues of the VCI-300 (an issue Novation decided to duplicate later with Twitch lol). Anyone sensing a trend here?

Basically in the mapping there is a shift modifier that is being used that doesn't need to be. Maybe they copied parts of a map from the Twitch as the common thing they share is The Slicer?

To activate a loop the keys [ and ' pick up the next saved loop on each deck.

To both jump to the loop and activate together then then hold CTRL/COMMAND when pressing.

This is what is happening. There is a shift modifier that shouldn't be there by the CTRL/COMMAND key when the mapping was done. If you want to re-loop then press the CTRL (or COMMAND KEY) like you always did.

Please map our controllers how they should be intended please and not with this rogue key press as standard. If you like it how it is now then vote to include it as a check box option and please repair our faulty mappings and not change the way our controllers work traditionally.

Thanks Serato :) xxx

Now I don't own a VCI-380 yet as Australia is completely out of stock right now,but I was under the impression that pressing auto loop twice puts you in "stored loop" mode, which is what all this hating is on.

So leaving auto loop in place, but offering an option to replace "stored loop" mode with this "new" manual loop mode (via a settings toggle) would alay most people's objections.

One press, auto loop, two press manual loop.

I'd prefer not to have a shift modifier on something I use quite often.

@wilks. The key mappings are irrelevant to the midi mappings in itch.

When programming the controllers they have included the "activate and jump to loop" instead of "activate loop" as a default map for the Twitch (and by the looks of it the VCI-380).

The keyboard shortcuts are [ and '.

"Activate and jump to loop" is a feature already in the software of Serato and this is the behaviour of holding down the CTRL (or Command on Mac) button when clicking the "loop" button for the deck your playing.

My understanding is that the shift modifier has been included in the map which is the CTRL/Command button making the unit jump instead of pick up the loop (as all other Itch controllers do as standard).

Sorry thebulge

I was just re-wording what i wrote before as i made it didn't make sense previously :(

It certainly wasn't a mistake though. It was a conscious design decision.

Either that or don't want to lose face over it and stuck to their guns after an oversight?

When quizzed on it last year they said to use they keyboard shortcuts to pick up all my loops.

I suppose we'll never know why couldn't they keep it the way it was like in all other Itch controllers and let me "jump to and activate loop" by clicking CTRL if I wanted it? Which it hardly ever. I used it once or twice on my Serato/Denon HC-1000S as it had a dedicted button for it called RELOOP.

As there isn't a RELOOP button on my Twitch so I was annoyed so just put the unit away and it sits in my room, barely touched.

Other products since Twitch haven't had this problem, apart from this, and they both sport The Slicer.

If there was quantization then i wouldn't mind as much.

Yeah, and that's the most mind-blowing, scariest thing of all, that this mess was INTENTIONAL. I think most could accept that it was oversight (well, maybe not), but the fact that it was a conscious decision to abandon traditional looping without even surveying the customer base.... geeeez :facepalm:

Will the VCI-380 (and Novation Twitch for that matter) running the new Serato DJ software have the same crazy jumping to stored loop behavior like a hot cue or will it behave normally like SSL and every other ITCH controller?

EXCELLENT QUESTION !!!

Some Serato guys can answer ?

Anyone? Serato/Vestax please respond. Purchasing decisions are being based on this question.

I'll be honest and say I think it will loop in the annoying "new" way.

I'm just guessing as the Pio SX does have a Slicer function and can bet it's gonna work that way.

Let's just hope they change it.

It'll be a deal-breaker if so, just like it was on VCI-380 and Twitch for so many.

Hey guys,

We are going to review all functionality on these controllers when they are brought into Serato DJ. Unfortunately I can't confirm or deny anything at this stage, but can hopefully let you know more as we get closer to release.

Cheers.

Hopefully Michael this is a step in the right direction in getting back a loop pickup mode and not a loop jump to mode. It's unusable.

Please review it and if we want to jump to a loop then then we'll use the cues.

Thanks for listening in on this as it's been my biggest disappointment with the Twitch. I love to loop.

Hi I have been a VCI 300 baby for 3 years.
I used it for Pirate Radio and some Jobs when, I didn't want to lug my 1210s to gigs. I am Producer so my approach to DJing is different than most.

I use loop functions on all my tracks, especially involving mashups from oldschool raregroove where there maybe a live band playing from the 70s and 80s funk era, and the timing is out, as it is not from a digital music production era. Remember digital production didn't come out until around 1999-2001. When PCs became apart of music production along with samplers.

The VCI 300 and SL3 are great for me as i can be creative and seamless whilst not over producing my live sets. This is what stands me out from the rest.

anyway enough of that!!!!!

PLEASE PLEASE TELL ME THAT I CAN USE THE LOOP FUNCTIONS FROM THE VCI 300 AND SAVED QUE POINTS THAT I HAVE PROGRAMMED FOR USE FROM YEARS OF USING SERATO PRODUCTS..

PLEASE TELL ME THAT I CAN USE THEM ON THE VCI 380 AS I HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO BY A VCI 380 FOR HALF PRICE.

IF I CAN'T USE SAVED QUES AS I DO ON CDJ'S VIA RECORDBOX OR SL2 SL3 SL4 AND THE VCI 100 AND VCI 300, THE VESTAX VCI 380 IS LITTLE MORE THAT A TOY FOR BEGINNERS AND NOT A TOOL FOR PROFESSIONALS.

PS IF IT IS TRUE I WILL CHANGE MY MIND AND BUY A PIONEER DDJ S1 OR A DDJ SX

Damn the same problem with SAVED LOOPS is on Pioneer ddj s1 and ddj sx. So it is a ITCH PROBLEM. This is unbelievable and simply unacceptable.

Say if the track is non quantized, live or is a phrase, sentence or live band. Simply anything anything. This is a major major MAJOR disappointment. I will stick with the my 300 for now.

What a shame as your new models and programs may have new innovations. But in real DJ Terms, not the tools to serve the LOYAL SERATO USERS/DJ'S, Who have grown to use the functions.

SERATO YOU NEED TO REMEMBER THIS:- ALL DIGITAL DJ TOOLS FROM CDJ'S TO CONTROLLERS ARE AND TIME CODE SOFTWARE IS HERE FOR ONE PURPOSE.

TO REPLACE THE A PAIR OF TECHNICS 1200S AND A MIXER.

DO NOT TRY TO REINVENT THE WHEEL!!!!!!!!!!

I'm sorry for the ranting and raving..... But damn. I have the opportunity to buy a vci 380 for half price. and I wanted a step up from my current controller.....

You can use all your saved loops through all of Serato's DJ programs.

I think the issue had been sorted with the loops jumping to the cue point when activated in Serato DJ.
The loops have options to loop to pick up or reloop or re trigger.

If you can get one for half price it won't lose much value for you to play on and you can just press the buttons on the keyboard to set loops like you've always been able to do.

Hope that helps