?

Humm, yes beatgrids/editing should still work fine in the offline player, still does for me at least. I'd imagine something went wrong after reinstalling Ableton. Did you activate the Bridge and whatnot again?

are you asking if i'd checked the bridge plug in, so yes, i did. anyway, last night gig i wasn't able to activate the bridge (all of it, not just beat grids) even when ableton live was running on desktop background w/serato SL.

ableton live 8 rerunning now on the lite version.
i'll be glad to find a solution soon, cheers!

O

ps - programs versions attached.

I have the exact same problem after reinstalling Ableton.

I tried solutions from these threads:

serato.com
serato.com
serato.com
serato.com
serato.com

nothing helped so far (i did check all AKIEM linked discussions). serato teach team, any news regarding this issue?

:E

yeah, I really do not know what else to try.

Let's wait for one of serato tech team will advise on this one...

Hey DJ KEEN,

I noticed in the screen shot you have provided you are running Ableton Live Lite currently.

The Bridge does not support Ableton Live Lite, as stated above the minimum specs section on this page: serato.com

Is it perhaps that you need to re-authorize your copy of Ableton to get the full version in order to have the beat grids show up again?

After authorizing 30 day trial mode for Ableton, I now have the beat grids in SSL offline and without running Ableton first.

But does this mean I have beat grids for 30 days?

I am pretty sure that you would, because even though it is a trial version of Ableton (30 day limitation) it is still seen by Scratch Live/The Bridge as a full/correct/supported version for those 30 days.

As long as it is NOT one of the following: Ableton Live Lite, Ableton Live Intro, Ableton Live Akai Professional APC edition and Ableton Live Launchpad edition, you should get beat grids both in on and offline modes, when you have The Bridge enabled in the plugins.

There has been some issues, where if you started out with one of the above versions of Ableton, then upgraded to a full version later on, Scratch Live still sees only the non-Bridge supported version, as that information is saved to the preference file.

hmmm. ok

I just dont need Ableton at the moment, and DONT want to buy it just to have beat grid in offline...

A little off topic, but why is it exactly you wish to have the beat grids if you don't intend to use the The Bridge? Helpful markers?

I suspect it's for the grid FX in MixEmergency.

If it is, Akiem, screw the Bridge, just build and edit your grids with Itch.

Yes, its for syncing QTZ in Mix Emergency. You guys will still help me out right? :P

I think I will want to check if they are on point while playing, maybe it won't matter, but it will kinda suck to have to remember to start ableton first.

I was actually trying to reclaim the 1.5g space on my ssd by deleting ableton.

I might buy ableton one day, but it's too redundant for softwares I already buy.

My suspicion is that once activated with the 30-day demo, the 'Bridge' remains activated forever. Obviously you couldn't use the Bridge functionality but the grids and the ability to edit them will not go away.

Just never open Ableton again.

You could probably delete a load of the content out of it though...

Im not entirely sure if the beat grids will remain after the 30 day trial but I think they will. I believe that if you delete Ableton Live also, the beat grids should still remain.

Definitely still willing to help you if necessary AKIEM, however this is DJ KEEN's help request so we should probably take it to another help request :)

Thanks

No worries! Any luck DJ KEEN?

i have validated that even after the 30 day trial is over, Albeton will still run and Serato bridge (including beatgrids) will still be available.

the only limitation is that you will not be able to 'save' anything in ableton.

the alternative is to build overviews in Itch as it has beatgrid functionality.

thanks Dj Nyce

Awesome to have that cleared up Dj Nyce. Perhaps I can close this thread now? No reply from DJ KEEN.

Is this also the case for mixtape function?? ie can we still save the mixtape in .als format after the 30 day trial?

What will you do with a mixtape function if you are unable to save in Ableton Live?

I guess you will still be able to save .als and take it over to someone who has a full licensed Ableton Live.

Perhaps Dj Nyce could confirm this :)

you can open a saved als mixtape but you won't be able to export or save it. they only reason to use the demo is just so you can get beat grids in scratch live.

if you intend on using the bridge and/or mixtape you most definitely want to purchase a full version of live.

Case closed :) Thanks Dj Nyce!

Rory Heath asks:

Hey Rory Heath,

I think the one setback you might find here is that the .als file will not contain all the ACTUAL audio files that you played during your mix. It does contain information about arrangement and automation etc, but it will be referencing the audio files from their original locations (wherever that may be.)

There is a function that is called "collect all and save" in Ableton Live, that will gather all the audio files within a project and save them within the Ableton project folder, but you wouldn't be able to do that with the trial version being expired.

Therefore you would have to carry over the songs you played to your friends computer and have Ableton Live reference them on that computer.

That is my understanding anyway. I don't have a trial version of Ableton Live that is expired nor am I currently in the office to double check my theory. Dj Nyce, could you be of assistance please to confirm? :D

alright. Did a little bit of R and D on this. On a fresh install of SSL and Ableton Live trial. Upon installing Ableton Live, it asked me if I wanted to start my free trial, I selected no. Then opened up SSL, and the beatgrids were there as well as the option to save to .als. I then closed down Ableton and still had those options. So as far as I can tell as long as you have Live installed, and open it first you can utlilize the mixtape, and beat-gridding function which I am more than happy with.

Aah excellent :)

Are you happy for me to close this help request now? DJ KEEN never came back after his first initial posts.

go ahead and leave it open for a bit as I'm sure I'll run across new bits to report on over the next month or so. There's good info in here that is also not otherwise stated in any other parts of the bridge documentation.

Back to the same behavior for me. I have to be plugged into the 57 and run Ableton in order for the grid to show up.

I have no idea what changed, I did some show, organized some crates, went online, but not much else.

Weird, are you on a Apple or Windows computer AKIEM?

Apple MacBook Pro 15-inch 2009
Mac OS X 10.6.8 Snow Leopard

Ok, there is something perhaps you could try which is resetting the preferences of Scratch Live.

The preferences are stored within a file which will also contain information about whether you have Ableton Live installed, The Bridge enabled etc.

Keep in mind this will change all the settings back to default, for the test, but we can get your settings back if need be.

1. Close all programs
2. Go to this location: Macintosh HD > Users > (Your Username) > Library > Preferences
3. Find the file "com.serato.scratchlive.plist"
4. Rename this file to "old_com.serato.scratchlive.plist"
5. Open Scratch Live now, and enable The Bridge in the plugins menu.

Are you able to see beatgrids when Ableton Live isn't running and you are in Scratch Live offline player? It definitely is possible, there must be some confusion though.

This was not a success. With a new plist The Bridge still only appears in Plugins when both the 57 and Ableton is running. I can disconnect the 57 and quit Ableton and Grids will work in Offline, but if I restart SSL The Bridge is gone again from Pluggins.

So the "The Bridge" does NOT even appear in the plugin list when in offline mode?

What version of Ableton LIve are you running?
What version of Scratch Live are you running?

Again, I can confirm this is definitely possible, but I am running a fully licensed version.

Are you running a Trial version of Ableton Live that has passed 30 days?

Correct, The Bridge is not shown as a pluggin option. However when it shows up, it is turned on.

SSL 2.3.3.18
Ableton 8.3 - trial version, not yet expired

Have you authorized your trial version of Ableton Live online?

You might need need to open Ableton Live, go to the preferences > User Account Licenses.

ok, so my 30 day license expired - that was quick.

Hmmm maybe that is the issue, although DJ Nyce said that he was able to still have beatgrids after 30 days. It is my understanding is that The Bridge and its features should NO longer be available after 30 days.

A few questions for you just to confirm things:

1. 57 connected, Ableton Live open - Is there beatgrids? Does The Bridge appear in the plugins menu?

2. 57 connected, Ableton Live closed - Is there beatgrids? Does the The Bridge appear in the plugins menu?

3. 57 disconnected Ableton Live open - Is there beatgrids? Does the The Bridge appear in the plugins menu?

Beatgrids - yes
Bridge - available in pluggins



Beatgrids - NO
Bridge - NOT available in pluggins


Beatgrids - NO
Bridge - NOT available in pluggins

The above is the behavior restarting SSL each time. After the 57 is plugged in, and Ableton Live open, each state above results in Beatgrids showing, and The Bridge available in pluggins.

There is not a state where Beatgrids IS showing, and The Bridge is NOT available in pluggins. And there is not a state where Beatgrids are NOT showing and The Bridge IS availible in pluggins.

Ok cheers, I do appreciate that.

In all honesty, what I think you might be experiencing is actually a bug.

As I stated above, The Bridge and its features should NO longer be available after 30 days, because essentially you are now using an unauthorized/unlicensed version of Ableton Live (whether it be full license or trial license.)

I can't say we have ever reproduced the bug because perhaps no-one (here at Serato) has ever tried to use a trial version and let it expire to see what happens.

I am willing to do this experiment if you wish for me to confirm this, however I would be inclined to thing this is a bug you would not want fixed :)

Just to confirm, when you were WITHIN the 30 day trial period, the beat grids appeared as well as The Bridge appearing in the plugins menu, with Scratch Live NOT connected to the 57 and Ableton Live NOT open, is this correct? That would be the expected behavior.

Yes that is correct.

If need be I dont mind helping solve the bug, I would just be backing up, in order to revert to the state I have it in now. better than loosing it all together :)




So - my opinion is Beatgrid should be part of SSL without The Bridge. I play a lot of breaks/soul/funk - it would be good for loops/efx to follow the Beatgrid. Currently I have ME performing visual functions according to the Beatgrid, kinda sucks that SSL does not. Further, I can actually use ME to trigger midi events on beat - LONG time SSL request.

Sorry, Im not quite sure what yo mean when you say "I would just be backing up, in order to revert to the state I have it in now."

I agree, there is probably a few good reasons for the beat grid to implemented permanently into Scratch Live.

Just mean that I will make a backup before I change anything that might undo the benefits of the bug. So, If it is a bug that needs to be fixed, I can still work on it.

i'll validate one more time when i get back home on friday. but i am 100% positive that ableton still shows up in the plugins list and grids are still editbable after the trial expires.

if this is true than AKIEM you may have found a bug. because it works for me without any hardware plugged in and a live installation that has been expired for over 6 months.

Yeah, which is the proper behavior?

Thanks for chiming in Dj Nyce, that is interesting, please let us know what you find.

Although I wasn't certain at the time we first began this discussion, I can now assure you the expected behavior is:



However, that fact that it is still available to you, must be a bug.

So AKIEM, if you have Ableton Live open, Scratch Live open and connected to the 57, can you open the ableton panel view in Scratch Live? Are you able to load any files into the panel and play them? I wouldn't imagine so.

Can you save a recording as .als?

Never actually tried. I can test Friday or the weekend.

Cheers man, would appreciate that :)

I couldn't agree with this more. While I do see the logic behind disabling the bridge after the 30 day trial, I believe the inclusion of beatgrids permanently into SSL is a phenomenal goodwill gesture to the loyal Serato user populace. Its such a small concession, with large positive results. In truth, there are laptops that I own that I only want to install Serato for and not have to install all 1.5 gb of Ableton on JUST so that I can have beatgrids enabled in SSL. From a consumer incentive standpoint, I really don't think anyone using SSL has ever looked at the beatgrid feature and said to themselves "I really need to buy ableton just so that I can use the beatgrids." The bridge functioning (sans independent beatgrids) is a strong enough feature on its own to entice Serato users to buy Ableton.

In truth its really more of an ancillary feature in addition to being the future of the digital DJ GUI for SSL, that not ceding this to the core Serato user is borderline petty from the consumers perspective. Even the ability to save mixtapes as .als files could be classified under this same argument, but I'd really just be elated to get bridge-independent beatgrids on the next release.

thanks.

the thing is if you are not using ableton live there is no need for beatgrids. the purpose of beatgrids in itch is to support sync. the purpose of beatgrids in scratch live is to support ableton live.

it makes perfect sense to remove beatgrids if ableton live is not purchased. i would like to see beatgrids included in ssl, but i understand why it isn't.

Have to respectfully disagree DJ NYCE,

Beatgrids serve a HUGE advantage independent of Ableton, a quick glance at the bar number helps me ID where the intro, phrases and bar begins visually without having to spend time scrolling thru the track to see where the intro, etc is. Also, it lets you properly mark where the 1 is for future use, in addition to being able to meter how long a break or section of a song is from a certain point ie "drum hit was at 32, add in 4 to 8 bars bringing it to 36 and I'll mix in the next track"

The beatgrid is invaluable when used as more of a beat ruler like how I have just illustrated. At the end of the day, more simple tools like this is a good thing for even the most casual user. Surely even you would agree DJ Nyce.

Another user on the forum, Code:E had a valid point that, if beatgrids were a permanent feature, you could use them to create loops instead having them automatically snap to transients. This could potentially make loops more accurate in some situations.

I think this discussion has gone a bit beyond DJ KEENs help request, however it is a valid and interesting discussion. Do you think it would be good idea for me to move into the Scratch Live feature suggestion area?

Feature Request: Add beatgrids as as standard feature of scratch live.

Martin, I kind of like this forum out in the open like this, feature requests tend to get lost in the shuffle.

Also, what is Serato's feelings towards the conclusions from this forum?

Yeah I agree with this - the feature is obviously in there and just needs to be activated all the time.

Currently, the beat grid can only be created and written to the files metadata if you have The Bridge enabled, or you use ITCH as well. If you have neither of these, then the beat grid will not exist within the file.

I do agree though, it would be cool if the feature was brought in and available all the time, the beat grid could then be made use of, for things like making loops etc.

Rory, this is currently in the The Bridge "help" section and can get lost just as easily as it could in the feature request area.

I think that if it was in the Scratch Live feature suggestion area, you would have other users gathering support for the idea and keeping the thread alive (even the users that don't frequent The Bridge help area.)

My personal feelings is that this is a great idea. I would be inclined to think that many people here at Serato would probably think the same, but it is something that would have to be put into the product backlog and assessed as whether it is a priority feature or not to come into the software.

Depending on what other plans we have for the software for the up and coming months, I couldn't say confidently when something like this would happen. However, I can definitely make the right people aware of this idea, so that it is not forgotten about.

hi guys,

sorry for not responding, please feel free to discuss it here or transfer the whole conversation.
anyway, after using the bridge for a while, i found it unusful for me needs.. and no, couldn't found a solution for the problem.


safe,

keen

As I see a new beta is out and ready to be released, can we please look into the possibility of adding beatgrids as a bridge independent feature into SSL? How can I garner more attention from Serato and fellow users for this very necessary and very small concession as a standard feature into SSL?

I echo the sentiment here. I would LOVE if beatgrids would be added as a built-in feature of SSL simply for ease of phrasing!

Preach, Preach. Hook us up here Serato!

+1, please add the beatgrids.