I agree this is the most annoying shortcoming of the NS6.

One trick I've used for this is to run a line from one of the monitor outputs (either one of the headphone jacks or the booth monitor output) to an unused channel on their board just so I can see these levels expressed separately.

Sorry I didn't really understand what you meant by that. The club I was at had a DJM 800 which had two CDJ's plugged in. I would have assumed that it having 4 channels, I could just plug my NS6 into one of the 2 remaining unused channels but the sound engineer for some reason plugged me into channel 2 by unplugging one of the CDJs. He said something about it being digital or something. So when I finished, I unplugged my NS6 and the other DJ plugged the CDJ back into the mixer channel 2. The booth speakers were connected to the DJM. The CDJs were going to be used with Serato Scratch Live, if that makes any sense of what the engineer did.

You can just update the firmware of your NS6 to the latest version then if you hold the "Cue" or "Headphone" button of each individual channel for 2 seconds the VU Meters or Leds that you call will monitor the specific channel instead of the master output.

So while you are preparing your next tune to mix it in on your headphones just hold the headphone button for 2 secs monitor real quick the leds and then you are good to go to mix in your track.

Again, in order to have this feature you need to have the latest NS6 firmware, you can go to the setup option on ITCH and if you see "Update Firmware" available that means that you have the old firmware and you need to update.

The sound engineer is daft. The DJM-800 has line/phono switches on each input.



Wow, I'm already on the latest firmware and I didn't know this. Thanks :)

I am on the latest firmware, but that doesn't really solve the problem because you are looking at each channel one at a time rather than next to each other to accurately match the volume. A let down from a so called "Best controller of the year".

Mine doesn't even work half the time, the LEDs would show for the deck that is currently playing but for the one I am cueing up wouldn't show(yes it is playing). I dont know if thats just my unit or something I am doing wrong. Its ridiculous how the Auto gain on ITCH is rubbish as well.

well i do really love my NS6 i think its the king of controllers that being said i feel you, when i moved from the vci 300 to ns6 i was and still am over pissed that there is not platter scroll such a useful tool on the vci just cant understand why its not on the ns6 that makes my use my vci more i hate that little noob on the ns6 raahhhhh

I loved the NS6 when I moved to it, everything about it was good. I dont know if it is me but not being able to change the torque on the platters is a bit of a let down. I'm not a scratch DJ but trying to learn and I was getting slightly better results with the VCI as I was able to tighten it up. I am partially sighted so the buttons being backlit really help on the NS6. Its a shame that such a basic feature is missing. I am actually considering selling it but dont know any other controllers that have a similar capability, build quality and the backlit buttons lol

the NS6 is great but seems as if setting are missing some how ............

Had my NS6 3 weeks returned. Ha you cant even pitch fade accurately. We all I can say is digital Dj is nothing compared to learning on vinyl 13 yrs ago for me.

If Serato would simply put each channel's VU meter on the screen as it should be, this would be a non-issue.

I dont understand why we need two strips of LEDs for the VU meter. Why cant we just have one strip for each deck?!

@Dj_Grover.. wassup bro.. I hear you and I like your objectives, but I think you miss something huge that will make you standout among the other djs. "Practicing Sound Control" This is what those djs had the advantage over you. They know sound control along with djing.

Here is some advise. Practicing at a isolate area like a big basement or loft or etc.(you may be doing this already) to see how you NS6 adjust while you are mixing. Now based of your first comment, ( and I like you concerns) test, test, test, before putting the NS6 live. Now I believe you tested your mixing style, but you may have not test the volumes and frequencies on a loud system before putting it live. Me and my guys practice yesterday, and the volume on 10 and we paying attention to all types of nyches. I don't have the NS6, but we have NS7(2 of them) V7s, Mixdecks, Mix Track, and so on.. like cdjs

Dj to dj, not only do you need to practice mixing but practice sound control. Monitors and Mains, Low and Highs.. this all plays apart... I see what you saying with VU but you still cannot depend on that because sounds changes when people are involve, so before you trash your NS6, tweak your dj game with sound control.

Hey, I got a dj friend that mix on the Mixtrack and he doesn't pay attention toward the volumes unless it is low to him so I will walk over to him to control the gains because the sound is unbalance.. my man had one of the gains on 10 and one of the channels or 10 and then listen in the cue headphones asking "why is the sounds so loud".. .lol. Just think how he djs when he gets on a loud system or on some cdjs.. He is OC(out of control) but he is my dude and a dj that needs to practice.

@dj56_56, Thanks for the advice bro, will definitely take that into consideration and try to practise. Only problem is, I live in an apartment where finding a big place to practise is next to impossible. What I try to do is keep the headphones on completely(rather than one side), with Deck A and B playing in each year respectively. This helps compare the sound to a certain degree but I think there is something wrong with my library or an ITCH setting as I am sure no one has one of the songs gain at the 3 o clock position and the other on the 9 or 10 o clock position. It seems way apart to me. What setting is everyone using for Auto gain on ITCH? How many db's? Also is there a software(that actually works) to normalise all the tracks I have? That would obviously eliminate such big differences in the sound.

@dj_Grover.. Keep the gains at 12 O'clock and tweak from left to right at the sound from there. Then, watch you main volume, channels and monitors volume. Don't trust the auto gain. Know that song or track you are playing, know the volume and freqz. Also, there is a some software that will help with normalising the track, but the question is: will it take away from that track? Uhm?

i think to be honest the points made here are true he and others could do some more home work and practice before going live BUT and i say again butTTT thats not his point it clearly would make alot more scene to have one strip for each deck with an option to see the master out lol and i am really laughing i just seen the f%*kup serato made!!! 2 strips 4 decks so your never gonna have your wish mate lolololol thats some shit man

I understand the homework part and it all makes sense. But having said that, why should I be in the booth trying to fix my volume levels for at least 10 seconds more than other DJs using a mixer with individual volume gain meters. Those 10 seconds make the difference between an average mix and a GOOD mix. If i was DJing alongside guys who can DJ eyes closed without a laptop and everything just using their ears, I would admit, its me that needs practising, but these guys are newbies too and their mixes sounded better than mine purely because of equipment differences.

A solution to the missing meters on the channels. I simply dropped the stripsearch LEDs and made them into channel level meters instead. Now it is easy to see if your channel is active (outputting music) before you load up another track.
This is for 4TRAK
I dont know if this can be reality at NS6.

Below is the link with the review and the Video.

www.petermunch.com

Wow, I would LOVE to have the Strip Search meters converted to VU meters on my NS6. That would be AWESOME!!!!

Het Serato, how about making this an option. Hell, I'd even settle for this in the form of an Easter egg.

A good way to fix your files:

www.platinumnotes.com

I used my ns6 10 times a week and i think if you just practice and learn the volume of your tracks you would not even care about this plus with firmware update you got that control for meters anway.

I've been using this FREE program for all my MP3's for years. It's now rare to ever touch the gain.
www.poweronplay.com

MP3Gain does not just do peak normalization, as many normalizers do. Instead, it does some statistical analysis to determine how loud the file actually sounds to the human ear.
Also, the changes MP3Gain makes are completely lossless. There is no quality lost in the change because the program adjusts the mp3 file directly, without decoding and re-encoding.

Wow, that's an awesome idea.

I think one of the fundamentals of DJing is being able to match your sound levels. I'm sorry to say, but you can't be that dependent on your equipment to do everything for you, it's like knowing how to use a calculator, but not understanding how to add 2+2.

Its really maddening, and I know a lot of DJs feel this way, to spend so much time investing in our skill set, and someone buys a laptop and a controller and they're a "DJ" now.

Invest in your skill set, practice, learn from the best, work hard and you will do well in this industry. If you want to do clubs, learn how to use a pair of CDJs, 1200s, and learn how to DJ by ear. Don't blame your equipment for not taking the time to practice your skill set, people, like the sound guy, will spot you a mile away.

+100 DJ J-AM , I agree 100%. I mastered beatmatching and blending many years ago by ear. Matching sound levels is the simplest part of these skill sets for anyone wishing to call themselves a "dj". Its funny that you mentioned "people, like the sound guy, will spot you a mile away. " because im also the sound guy at many events that I supply sound systems for. Last Sat i supplied a sound system for a club in Manhattan and the dj was said to be very good so I figured it was going to be a great night. By the 3rd track he played I was already PISSED OFF because he had no freaking clue how to match volumes so the music is going up and down. This then makes my job harder because im now stuck fixing his mixes on the fly from my mixing board, every time he drops a new track and he had no freakin clue...smh. I did this for the first 30 min before I said FUCK IT an told the promoter what was going on so no one would blame this on MY sound system. I dont no how the hell he got booked but I doubt he will ever get hired again.

BTW it does not take 10 seconds to match track volumes. Any skilled dj can do this effortlessly, consistently and instantly with his ears ONLY and no one would be the wiser. This is blending 101.

That's why the DJ industry invented something which they refer to as a "booth monitor"...

I play often on +10kW soudsystems. One tad too much on the gain can blow people away.
Give me a pair of good booth monitors and I don't need even have to look at my mixer.
But I have to admit... I needed to learn to mix that way also.
You need (the chance) to learn to use this mixing technique.
So I do understand that some younger DJ's don't have a clue how to use Booth Monitors if they are not used to use that.

Basically you can simulate this booth monitor technique inside your headphone on some mixers (like the Ns6) , when U use the cue-mix PFL knob properly.
Using that technique is the solution for every DJ to learn this way of mixing.
Once used to it, you're not depending on VU meters anymore. (although I still find VU meters a usefull feature on a mixer.)

Well, that's the real issue. Obviously, you need this if you're going to get them perfect.

You don't always have one, though, and the acoustics of smaller venues are often so wonky you can't rely on what you hear coming back to you.

Hell, even if the levels are the same on the last mixer you can get screwed--it happened to me in my last set. Something about the dynamics of the specific track and the acoustics of the joint made it about 6 dB louder than it should've been, which was not sexy fun times.



This doesn't always work--headphones are always a compromise between isolation and accurate dynamic range. It can sound OK in your headphones and be jarring when you fade it up.

Numark forgetting or intentionally leaving out individual channel meters on a four channel machine is just about as stupid as other manufacturers leaving out booth monitor outputs. These are two of the most most basic, yet essential features for most DJs. Really makes you question how these manufacturers go about the design process. It's as if none of them have ever actually DJd themselves, or at the very least consulted with those who do for a living.

It is mystifying that they don't have a switch like the NS7, but I find the PFL-hold workaround tolerable.

Yeah, the hold to cue is a workaround, but it's a very poor one because not only is it instant, you have also have to keep your finger pressing and holding the whole time you're cueing. Not really a big deal when mixing just two channels, but becomes a royal PITA when managing three or four channels. Becomes even worse when dealing with auxiliary sources such as TTs or CDs connected to NS6.

Shame on you Numark. Seriously, you guys nailed it in on so many levels with the NS6 and to go and miss something like this is a rookie move. It's like you 95% there and gave up on the rest.

^^^ "because not only is it NOT instant"

Not true, It works perfectly when you're trained on it.

Apparently he was right.


In 22 years I don't think I've ever even looked at an individual gain

Use your upfaders, bring in the new track at a lower volume, as you increase get ready to lower the other track. The most basic concept of "mixing" which was a word used long before DJing in regards to levels.

If the OG studio engineers could mix multi-source recordings on the fly as they took them in without meter bridges and create amazing recordings, how come we can't take something as simple as two club records that are already a flat mash of sound and mix them without a blinky light?

Use your ears dude, that's what they're there for.

And I'm not trying to be harsh just realistic. As you get going with your DJ career you're not always going to be able to play on your shit, and when someone kicks the crutches from underneath you what are you going to do, scramble or stand on your own two feet? That's up to you.

Because they're acoustically isolated and what they perceive with their ears actually exactly matches what they're putting on the track?

NO amount of practice can compensate for imperfect isolation from random acoustic characteristics. Also, the subjective perception of certain frequencies is absolutely different given different speaker and venue characteristics.

That's also why VU meters aren't enough, incidentally. But they certainly can help you figure out what the source of the problem is and what to do about it (ie, whether to adjust trim or EQ) .

You clearly don't know how crude some of those OG set ups were, so you're telling me that's easier than playing two tracks in today's current pop formula that's limited to shit, while playing on a system that has autogain?

LOL but alright... live engineers without meter bridges, still done to this day... does that work better for you?

We're DJ's, we use our ears, if you can't, something's wrong.

WHAT PART OF ACOUSTICALLY ISOLATED FROM A 95+ dB DANCE FLOOR DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND?

And further, I don't know where you go to to shows, but every sound board of every significant venue I've been at in the last 10 years looks more like the helm of a spaceship than a sound board, moreso in cases where the sound engineer CANNOT be acoustically isolated.

LOL

Like I said, 22 years, I've never even looked at an individual meter, considering up until a few years ago it wasn't that common.

There has always been and always will be variables when you show up to a different venue, you LEARN how to adjust by using the most basic tool, your ears. It wasn't until kids started getting everything automated for them that it became something so hard to comprehend.

This guy's going on about imperfect isolation and all kinds of nonsense, welcome to DJing. You're mixing two records, it ain't that hard.

Look at this guy getting all hyped

WHAT PART OF YOUR EARS DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND?



And the ten years before that?

Plenty of DJs have abolutely NO problem working like this since the beginning of time, just because it's too hard for you doesn't mean it's impossible.

And most DJs sound like jank, including the ones who think they're awesome. And no one cares, because most club/festival goers are halfway to deaf themselves and are usually loaded on some kind of mind-altering substance.

mate its really not so hard to get your levels right, i play dancehall music which is speed mixing 80% of the night and the leveling is fine, can u not just keep an eye on the master level?

So most DJ's before autogain and individuals sounded like jank?






Then why are you crying about individual meters?

+1

I played Dancehall since my early days, on vinyl that was all over the place on riddims that were cut in different styles every which way to Sunday, don't get me started on dubplates.

Anyway that's enough for my Saturday, and remember kids we're DJ's, not visual artists, learn to use your ears and next time you show up to a club without a mothership you'll do alright.

See you in the funnies

my 1st time i voiced some dubplates jamaica back then they would record st8 to dub start the riddim and the artist had one shot lol

Wait, I thought the entire point of this section of the thread was that REAL LEET DJs don't NEED METERS.

Though, It IS a great point that if you rely too much on the meter you can get screwed anyway. The human ear responds differently to different frequencies. A synth-heavy track is going to be perceived as much louder than a bass-heavy track even if the objective sound pressure is identical.

You'd be surprised at how few DJs actually know this. My guess is that it's fewer than 1 out of 10, including some very big names (though the big names are usually backed by a professional sound crew so they don't have to worry). Again, they get away with it because most of our patrons are deaf and drunk. But if DJs were generally better at this, deafness wouldn't be such a problem to begin with.

I digress anyway, because the real thing meters help you with is losing volume because your subjective perception doesn't match what is actually happening. And yes, individual level meters help you prevent this from becoming a problem. But, sure, at the end of the day open your freaking ears and keep an eye on the master. Sure, why not?

I have read all of this and agree that the vu meters was an engineer oops for sure, but what the NS6 brings to the table is hard to match. One thing that hasn't been mentioned here that I use to get my gains right is the ability to cue the existing track( track thats playing) . Press and hold that cue button and then press the one you are wanting to mix in and presto they are both in your headphones( mind you to have the split cue button in the off position and the blend knob all the way to cue). With this kind of cueing you can tell if your incoming song is overbearing over what is already being played. this also lets you tweak your eq properly before letting her rip. VU Meters can't do that. Between the preview of the gain by holding the cue button for two seconds to make sure I am not in the red and my headphones I am happy. Hope this helps.

I also believe this was engineer oops. And irrespective of the argument that everyone should be able to do this with theirs ears instead, my gripe with not including them is that the NS6 is suppose to be a tool for making our job easier and provide shortcuts. Hence the scroll knob so we don't have to use the keyboard as much, loop section with forward and back functions, led touch strip for scrolling through a track, etc. The VU meter IMO is a time saver and almost essential convenience feature. If not for these features why not go back to the era of cavemen with more primitive tools?

I would equate it to a rear-view mirror in a car. Yes you can drive a car without a rear-view and yes you can probably even park it by looking through the back window but the extra perspective you gain makes backing up a helluva lot easier. The argument that its not a big deal just use your ears is ridiculous esp if your already a seasoned pro, why did we just buy an evolutionary device to do things as we did on devices from well over 20+ years ago.

Agreed. Well stated.

@ elsupermang, while much of what you said in regards to the product design is true and is NOT under debate. But you are clearly missing the "REAL" point many have stated.
A specific feature should not be used as a crutch and by no means what so ever should the lack of said feature be an excuse for a bad performance. Failure to learn basic fundamentals is not the fault of the equipment........ its the user.

DJing is an art form like any other that requires many years to perfect your craft but many djs have chosen to take the short cut an in time their weakness WILL come to light.
Who's fault is that ?

A great artist does NOT paint by numbers.....

+1


I know people keep saying "if it has it, why not use it?" I agree but, if it doesn't have it...IT SHOULDN'T KEEP YOU FROM DJing!!!!

Lots of controllers out there to choose from so, get the one that suits you best. I don't comment on the ones that I don't own or use on a regular basis. So, I'm not going to bash other controllers.

You all had an opportunity to return you gear after trying it out a bit. If you don't like it, return it and get a "better" one.

Ultimately you MUST be able to adapt. Don't tell me you if you can't get your BPMs to line up on because it's .01% off that you just quit.

DJs now more than ever have it much easier and are easier to come by...

Djing with todays advanced technology is like flying a new plane, they can virtually fly themselves with very little help from the pilot. But if that planes equipment were to fail you better no how to fly a plane with no technical assistance or you will surly crash an burn.....

+1

Sure you mention the ease of use.. But don't forget that you can also preform some "maneuvers" you couldn't before!:)

but you can do it with alot of other controllers... the ns6.. i dont like it :(

your going to get the ns6 now?!
really?
and for MOBILE gigs? the ns6 is still one big monster...
get 380 or twitch (only if your electronica dj)

twitch
vci380

both got that option o:
more compact...
but if your locked on ,on the ns6 knock yourself off... id still recommand waiting
not getting the somewhat dated ns6:)

Seriously? Dated?
The ns6 blows the Twitch right out of the water IMO. Any DJ bringing a twitch only to a typical mobile gig (corporate event, wedding, birthday party etc) is setting themself up for failure.

Here is why:
Most of these clients will expect to see some kind of pro looking equipment. Most will regard the twitch as a child's toy. I'm not saying its a toy, but the client will, trust me. Also the standalone mixer feature is important in these events. If the software crashes, you can have an ipod ready to go. And in addition some clients will want a microphone.
Remember a pissed off client might try to hold back/cut back your pay.

And if you really think the NS6 is such a big heavy haul, then try 2 technics and a mixer. Compared to the speakers & subs, the NS6 is feather light. And don't get me started on the build quality and overall feel. Yve, I know you love your Twitch, but you're far off target here...

There no other itch-controllers on the market that beats the the NS6/NS7 IMO.
Lets wait for the vci380 to come out, then pass judgement.

To the original poster: I did not read all the posts in this thread, but you know that you can press & hold the headphone cue buttons on the NS6 to get real time led level feedback, right?

What other controller?
The NS6 is the only standalone mixer that can be used for itch yet.

We do 15 mobile gigs a weekend and i got our boss to switch all our systems to ns6. we have 8 going out now and love it.

Yeah, have done mobiles with the NS6 myself, although I prefer CDJs with SSL ...

I'm just before a gig so I comment from my iPhone so I can't comment as well.. Sorry.
Any how, im long after [birthday , wedding, etc...] giging days.. I never liked it exactly for this reason, you need to hold off your art and be the costumers bitch.
Right now if i had to take a wedding or something like this.. Not only I won't bother bring in a mobile booth and use a table with black map on it I'll also bring the twitch only. To look like a total asshole . The. Blew the roff off and leave... Leave em with their mouth open...
I grew up on this world, my father is a mobile dj...
Weddings, bar mitzvahs, birthdays... This was my childhood... Maybe that's why I can't stand it. Clubs or raves.

Man now I'm pumped!
Gonna be a good rave tonight!

I'll comment fully on your post when I'll get home.

Haha, Im probably old enough to be your dad... Corporate clients pay well for a service, and I need to pay my bills ;)

It's not for everyone. I can't stand weddings either. I will reject every single one I get offered. One time this lady pulled a fast one, she basically told everyone it was a surprise birthday. When I got there she said it was a "surprise wedding". I'm like ooook, i dont have wedding music, so we just rolled with it. She told the same thing to a separate MC she paid and a singer. I'm pretty sure she did it to get away with only getting charged a birthday party price vs a wedding price. The whole thing just threw me off and was definitely not one of my best selection wise.

solid little piece for the price but bottom line is you get what you pay for. Numark is cheap parts and it shows. I plan on keeping mine for a while, but definitely sticking with denon / pioneer for larger events.

This, plus Rane...

And Technics 12's of course...

In the UK I haven't seen any mobile jock in the last decade use anything except a dual rackmount CD player or VDJ/PCDJ without a controller at all... Think the mobile market is a different kettle of fish across the pond... ;-)

Think its the same in parts of South America. Rackmounts and VDJ are all the rage.

The NS7 has an analog through input on the front. When Itch goes down (and it has for me in the past), the iphone backup becomes active during the reboot.

Exactly. Ns6 is a great all rounder. especially for small mobile gigs / Dance pubs events.
But the Vestax 380 will be a great competitor in that category, if you ask me...

Duct tape FTW! < You should never leave home without it...

Numark really should have known better than to use such a poor power connection on a unit of this caliber. They should have used a professional, standard IEC power connector just like the NS7.

i would love to here anyone from team serato add to this lol

To thread starter:

This seems like a rather simple problem to fix:
Set and use "Auto Gain". It will set all songs gain to a specific level...

Don't need to be adjusting gains practically at all...

Just sayin...

Assuming you are running Itch, and not talking about using as a stand-alone mixer..

works for me, maybe he never analyzed all his files ?

Man I never even thought about this as an issue.
This is were people who learned on BD10s and a pyramid mixer have an advantage...
All those tricks they learned to keep the record stable, synced with the other one, and sound control come in handy when the manufacturer forgets to implement a basic tool.

Just practice. Don't hate your NS6, You will be fine.

blah blah blah 'skill set' blah 1200's.. blah..

Hey Mr. Paid-my-dues.. You are aware that professionally mastered material (vinyl, CD's, etc) is gain set to an industry standard. Whereas encoded and compressed music is often done by the post production and gain range per track can vary GREATLY. All equipment being within manufacturing tolerance, I wonder how much due paying you did between two identical records? And there ya have it.

But the beauty of the new age is we have hardware and software AGC's for realtime handling of this, or software to scan and fix our music so it behaves more like your your vinyl in regards to gain.. and people like you wanna hate because we created a problem and then use something to solve it. This is a media issue, not an 'I didn't pay my dues' issue.

- Matt

After reading this great conversation between the 2 opposing crews, the "I only play vinyl" crew and the "Can I connect my Ipod" crew I am hoping that you can answer my 2 questions.

Since, I learned on vinyl and phono, and now have an NS6 as the first "Home DJ Equipment" since removing a DJ Set-Up from my home or studio as it was pointless to music production and once you have matched 1 beat you can match the next beat. I do still have 1-1200 used for sampling records for producing (better defined as Control:D, 16 times, warp, compress, sale). I do not have a need for practicing DJing at this point. I purchased the NS6 as a possible way to utilize theBridge via an SL3. My questions are:

What kind of mix are you attempting with your slider at max while introducing the track? If you are not attempting a purposeful change in volume as an introduction of a more dominant track as often seen with quality techno-tech house DJ''s then you should be introducing the track with mid range first, and then the blend is made throught introducing the kick, bass, and hats removing them from the former track. At what point can this be done correctly and Volume even factor as you are controlling pieces of different tracks to make a new mix??? So, I must agree with the sound guy and his bedroom comment. I don't believe you say other sets are superior to your own due to lack of level meters, but I also would not be taking my $850 Numark to the club to connect to the $1,800 worldwide standard Pioneer mixer which has the lights you are requesting and keeps you from lugging equipment.

That said, I am not gonna make a comment about being superior because I learned on vinyl and think it is newsworthy. My question there is, if you are playing Vinyl still, then are you not a bedroom DJ also? (Unless it is a special 1-off event for that purpose).Time Coded Vinyl with a laptop makes you no different than anyone with a laptop and visual waveform.

The fact is a good DJ is just that, and doesn't think about lights, sync buttons, analyzing files, mixed in key, pitch n time, beatmatching, layering, volume control because he understands it already.

This does not mean he does not use the tools, but is not worried about needing an Ipod Jack, or anythign along these lines as DJ's show up with thumb drive, back-up CD's and utilize the venues equipment/hardware in all forms. Exception would be Ableton DJ's who need controller for things far beyond "Sync"

@grooveasylum

Your version of "how to mix" wtf do you mean mid-range first, etc... Hilarious mixing style that only suggests you can't beat match.. Think about what you are saying, to mix a new track in you would do the following:
1) on channel 2 (the one u are mixing in - you have the treble and bass completely cut.
2) Crossfade (or line fade) channel 2 with only the midrange "on"
3) cut the bass on channel 1 and bring up the bass on channel 2 along with the treble..

Effectively removing bass kicks from your "mixing" aka not beat matching... Sorry..
Unfortunately there are a lot of inexperienced people that never learned how to actually beat mix... Hint: the kick drum is the beat...

What the "quality" techno/house DJ's are doing is using the eq to "accentuate" treble/mids/bass. Not removing baselines or kick drums.. They are using them for effect not beat mixing.

As a 25 year DJ and House/Techno veteran and Rotary mixer user of old, I can assure you we/they are not cutting kick drums or baselines to mix...

Watch closely some veterans, Fatboy Slim, Oakenfold, Kaskade etc..

I do however see a LOT of young DJ's that do think cutting bass is mixing - it simply isn't.

Can't get much closer than playing with Umek last weekend, Green Velvet the weekend before that, making music and doing events with Eddie Richrds first Tech House artsit, so you being 25 years in the game should understand that you just named 3 non Techno DJ's:

You should also be able to read what I stated and fill in the gaps, this is the first time I have evr even been on this site dro, and found this conversation so stupid I couldn't resist to say something…thanks for msking it even more ludscris. Paul oakenfold and techno. Even better the other feeble attempts.

Norman Cook aka FB Slim - Big Beat
Paul OakenFold - Progressive
Kaskade - Top 40 Big Room Electro at this point. He used to play house, but never close to techno. Thanks anyway bonehead…apparntly you don't understand how mix Techno or Tech House asyou don't even understand the genre…it's 4 decks, used to be 1200's, and playing all 4 at once, not sampling.

PS: Fatboy Slim doesn't Mix he blends during the breakdowns, and even writes his tracks to support this style…


I included a link to a very informative workdshop for DJ'Producer's you might helpful…
illgates.com

::rolleyes

who invented this style ??? this been in reggae dancehall ooohhh sooooo long ago

You correct, whoever said that house DJ's didn't invent mixing, as house was not even an option at that point…DJing came from disco, RnB, Funk, Soul. Later Chicago started a spots called the The Warehouse (hence Ware"House", and where the name came from) and also Ron Hardy's Music Bos which is where a good friend of mine actually introduced Acid House which then dominated the scene for years to come…

What "Roll Eyes, Mr. Mac must not understand is that, he is correct in saying I must not understand that DJinbg is beat mixing (I would call it beat matching)…as there is no difference in beat mixing, matching, syncing, auto tempo control etc., it all actually describes the first step in blending the tracks into a mix…which is what I simply described above, and it is done after properly setting track tempo and introducing the next track on the correct "1" count. In most dance music environments around the world that I have been lucky to play this is not done with both Bass knobs at max, nor do most proper DJ's move the knobs past 12:00 as to avoid audio clipping…or, if pushed to far creating speaker problems.

Furthermore, if all you use to mix is the kick, and you can't correctly identify rhythm within other elements then good luck being creative. Also, for very much over simplying the art of programing and sequencing of the different frequencies and tones within the music once it is at audible crowd levels.

I assumed the 3-5 minutes of replacing track dominance through proper use of the m ixer would have been assumed in my email.

Again though, it is probably easily over looked when listening to Kaskade style music as it is simply "drop the next track on 17 or 33" and pull the existing out using a xfader…oh yea, and don't forget to hold your hands in the air like Sly in Rocky IV.

For those who complain here I can only say that you do not know what you are talking about... I started spinning in 1976... talk about shortcomings.... I have been through everything... including 8 tracks, tape decks, open reel, belt driven turntables, direct driven turntables, sl 1200s, ... you name it.

One thing I have learned is .... practise makes perfect!

No matter what you use, always practice, use BIG speakers, cracnk it. I still do after so many years, I own Sl 1200s, V7's an NS6, all I can say is I LOVE my NS6. There are a couple of things I would like to suggest to serato for ITCH but thats another issue..

Remember:
1- ractise makes perfect!
2- Record your practice sessions
3- Review your tape.
4- found an issue? go to step 1
5- its perfect? change records/tapes/venue/equipment... go to 1

+1

only the true.....thats the only way to know how can u do it... : )

Jesus Christ, people are really saying there's only "ONE TRUE WAY TO MIX?" D: D: D:

Thinking that all you can do legit is kickdrum sync the 2nd track and let the first thing run out is probably even worse than not being able to beatmatch.

Huh? Auxiliary Input into the RCA or Qtr Plug. Switch to on and play away. When ITCH restarts, it doesn't interrupt the audio.

I recall the NS7 not working too well as a failsafe. The AUX jack would only work if no USB cable as plugged in OR if ITCH was running.If you turned on the NS7 with a USB present the AUX jack would not work while ITCH is not running. Also if ITCH crapped the bed, I think i remember the AUX turning off as well and you had to restart ITCH or power cycle the NS7 with the USB cable out.

Ah, yeah, I didn't get that that is what you meant. Yeah, that is indeed true. I always thought that to be something of a limitation.
I've never had to power cycle the NS7 with the usb cable out though, just merely unplug the usb cord from the system.

This whole story about the level led's could be avoided if Serato simply allowed us to map our hardware the way we feel fit & not just the way they think it should be. I mapped out my channel meters to the strip search led's in Traktor with no problems at all. Why on earth is there no mapping capacity in this software???

You young DJ's are so spoiled that you probably couldn't do anything anymore without sync,individual LED meter,wave forms on your Laptop.... consistently staring at your Laptop screen....SMH . To put something down just because you cant see the individual metering is probably the dumbest thing I have ever heard...LOL...NO DEVICE IS PERFECT!!! So stop complaining and just send a simple message to Numark with a "hey individual LED metering would be a suggestion THX"!!!...

I play in a club using NS6 , I dont have any problem mixing sound levels between tracks, I use my ears and if the sound level is different I ride the gain nob at the same time as I mix and adjust on the fly if needed ,I also have a headroom speaker with a wide 130 degree output about 10 ft behind me to get audio to my ears all around me, but I dont have or need a sound engineer to change levels on me or mess with my output If you are having to plug your NS6 thru hardware like a CDJ or other hardware your problem may be there. If you practice at home somewere were you can put your speaker level higher and not listen through headphones , this will help you in developing an ear for audio, This is why you will see DJ's with only 1 ear on the headphones and 1 ear for live output sound I been working with audio for 30 yrs , I usually look away from any vu meters and use my ears, Just because he calls himself a sound engineer doesn't mean he knows what he doing a lot of these guys dont like to change from the normal setup because they are use to doing it one way , I work in a club as DJ on the side and my real job is putting audio on the air over your TV set everyday, Vu meters are just a reference from the start, your real vu meters are attached to your head. You may want to check in serato setup on the playback and mixer tab that you have correct setting that you have tested at home, this varies among dj using serato software but play some tracks that you know have a big different in audio out put and adjust the EQ, headroom and auto gain in setup to get the best performance from your ns6. Just my view good luck.

So here's something that happened to me last month. I'm fading two tracks together through a breakdown. I've already checked peak level in the new track on the VU, and when it peaked on the board it showed the same volume. Yet, everyone in the club jumped as if you'd scared them.

How could this happen?

(1) The first track was mostly wobbly bass and the second track was Adele wailing away like she does. The human ear perceives high-midrange sound as much louder as the equivalent volume of bass.

(2) The acoustics of the venue maximized the effect on the dancefloor (and beyond the dancefloor in the front of the club) and minimized the effect in the booth.

(3) The monitors and headphones did not faithfully reproduce the acoustics of the venue.

Sometimes you're just going to be screwed. But it's good to know that you got screwed mostly by things beyond your control. Granted, I knew about the midrange effect in the back of my head, but it slipped my mind at the time. I've not made the same mistake since. But I probably will again.

If you run into tracks like that I usually will start looking for replacement for that track if available, I usually will play about 2 to 3 tracks before the club opening and do a walk thru around the dance floor and around each speaker to make sure level output from all speakers is the same usually in the center of floor and make sure I dont hear any one speaker more than the other, some speakers have base boost switch that could be turn on and that is why I always play a couple tracks one with just good sound instrumental and one with base hip hop usually. Sometimes we have bands that play and may mess with speakers and that is why I always check. I have came by tracks like that maybe twice in a long time and found I just had a bad track or version, record pools will usually have at least a few versions of each track remixed differently with sometimes base or sound difference depending were it came from. My intention is to mixed tracks sometimes making the people not even know there was a track change, but if its very noticeable as you describe sometimes its due to track selection and what follows. But like I said early I also have a headroom speaker behind me so that I can hear what they hear on the dance floor, This helps.

CBSDJDAVE - you know how old I am?

Oops, sorry CBSDJDAVE I copied the wrong name, the above was meant for BJ BASS.

good lord I wasn't saying I was better because I started on BD10s records 8track tapes what ever.
I was pointing out that due to MY experiences I don't pay much attention to per channel meters because Most of my life I didn't have any.
I own a NS7 and A NS6 I switch back and forth between them all the time.
I just don't notice that. Also I have tons of records that were recorded at different Decibel levels.
the standard isn't the same in every country and some stuff is just bad production.

Thanks for the comments of those who understand my complain about the missing VU meters. For those here bashing me about not being able to use my ears and relying on the VU meters too much. Its nothing to be proud of but I cannot do it and I need the gadgetry to help me. I dont see why that is a problem seeing as all the other DJ's I see in the clubs I play are doing the exact same thing. Just because I cannot use my ears to volume mix doesn't mean an £800 device gets away with excluding a basic fundamental DJing feature. Thats like saying you bought a car and it messed up on you, you complain and I say well 'use your legs to walk'. Why dont we use old age Nokia handsets nowadays rather than iPhones and HTC's? If it is invented to make your job easier, why not use it - and criticise it when it is missing!

If using my ears to match the volumes and beatmatch is what I wanted to do, I would have bought 1210s and then I have no reason to complain about the missing VU meters or BPM display. What people need to understand is, it has become a standard to expect these fundamental features from such expensive controllers. They're not labelled 'professional' for no reason, hence the price tag. At the end of the day, the crowd doesn't care what you are using, as long as it sounds good, and that could be from CDJs or an NS6. So please stop bashing newbies for complaining about a missing fundamental feature.

@ DJ_Grover , Why did you purchase the NS6 if its missing a major feature you require in order to mix properly ?
Why didnt you return it immediately ?

Why.....Where they do that at ?

When I bought the NS6, I wasn't into it as much as I am now. I used it at smaller parties where I would be able to match the volumes somehow. The club scene was completely different and hit me off guard. I didn't notice the missing VU meters until I played at a club.

The missing individual channel meters is the biggest screw up Vestax made on this unit. Every time I play on a NS6 I just shake my head at how they could've missed such a basic yet essential feature. It's like Apple designing an iPhone and deciding not to put the number 0-9 on the keypad. :facepalm:

wot a thread!

I don't need VU meters and I do use the "press and hold" cue button if I have to... But I still want them too. It is just an easier and more accessible way of monitoring front of house when you are hearing booth monitors. It also means you can set a gain pre-fade and then do cuts and drop-ins at the right volume but without the dancefloor getting a warning they are coming.

I feel for the OP. Realising how different sound control is at your first gig must have been world-shaking. Sure you could have avoided that with a bit more practice/research/preparation, but we all have stuff to do we never get round to... sounds like the soundman was a dick too, didn't his attitude change when you showed him XLR cables?

and hey @phatbob, if you're still on this from months ago... I'm in West Yorkshire U.K. and I still mobile and put a lot of soul into every gig using an NS6. I have a good agent who sources folk he checks I will hit off with off. It costs more to do the homework so we charge more but everyone wins and the clients are happy.

It was hell when I noticed how much I needed the VU meters. Yeh the sound guy wasn't much of a help. He sort of judged me on the basis of me using a controller and not CDJ's. Gosh these people need to stop bashing controllers. It is the way forward. I am not going to ever fork out £1500 for ONE CDJ and obviously you need two so thats £3k. Oh wait, need a mixer too so thats another £500-1k. Yes you can get cheaper CDJs but the quality ones are the prices I mentioned. And even then, you buy the CDJ and use it with Serato which defeats the purpose of it being a "CD" player in the first place.

There are dicks everywhere.
He sounds like the type of fool who doesn't know what he is talking about, but is willing to judge you on what he thinks anyway.
Shame you had his attitude adding to your sound control/1st gig learning experience.

Ooops, meant to say "...the biggest screw up Numark made on this unit."

Vestax is screwing up just fine on their own with the new VCI-380.

Activating stored loops causes playhead to automatically jump to them like a hot cue. This is not the expected behavior, especially for those who use SSL.

Also, there is no way to access beatgrid controls from the controller. It has to be done from the keyboard, which kinda defeats the purpose of having a "controller".

Have you tried using the ITCH AUTO-GAIN? This could help!

I had this same problem a few years ago. At the time I used the BCD3000 and it had no VU! I activated the auto-gain of Traktor to match the volume of tracks. Then I bought Platinum Notes software that analyzed all my collection, set the gain and improved the quality of the songs.

Today I no longer use the AUTO-GAIN, because the volume of my tracks are all equal. Of course, a VU for each deck helps a lot in the gain calibration. My DDJ has 3 vu: one for each deck and one for master output. I think the Numark NS6 excellent equipment. I'd buy it instead of Pioneer, but I opted for DDJ. If this is your only problem, the solution is very simple: Platinum Notes!

:-)

Thanks for that. I heard of MP3 Gain or something and Oh God, what a disaster that software was. It has vanished some of my songs from Serato's library, and messed up the volume on all my songs. I seem to have two versions of a song now. How much is this Platinum notes software? Thanks

^You shouldn't need any extra software to do this. There is a way of limiting your gain automatically within itch if you want to use it.
Go to "setup"
Choose the "playback" tab
Check the " Use Auto Gain" checkbox is on. Then set the headroom how you like it.

To be honest now... I think if you posted this thread and didnt know about the internal autogain then you really need to go back to step 1 and read the manual mate.

I'm with you DjSyndic8.
I hate the sound of it and dont use it.
But if Grover didnt even know it was there then he needs to RTM.
Just because it doesnt help me doesnt mean it wont help his issue.

MP3 Gain is very poor for our purposes.
PN cost $98 and if u want to buy Mixed In Key, have a offer! Check it www.platinumnotes.com
Worth the investment.
But, Remember that your music can not be damaged, otherwise the software will not analyze them.
PN support: MP3 (CBR/VBR), MP4, M4A, WAV, AIFF, OGG, WMA (Not protected).
PN convert to WAVE, MP3-VBR-192kbps or MP3-CBR-320kbps.

Sorry if you took me as bashing you for not being able to play without VU meeter.
Didn't mean it that way. Just meant that doing it by ear might be something you could consider to add to your skill set.

Thanks for the suggestion about Auto Gain. Tried that and it doesn't work like it should to be honest. I may consider Platinum notes or just switch to the VCi 380 as I dont use the four decks on the NS6 anyway and since ITCH wants to be a complete douchebag and not let us get rid of those two empty decks blocking up the screen, and not to forget the all important missing VU meters. I have a funny feeling that as soon as I sell the NS6, ITCH will bring out some sort of an update which allows it to use the VU meters properly.

you are right on the money

I HATE MY NS6 AS WELL ,,,, LOOKING TO GET RID OF IT <,,, I LOVED IT WHEN YOU WERE ABLE TO VIEW 2 DECKS NOW YOU MUST VIEW 4 .. >>>>>> HATE IT ,,,,,IF YOU KNOW ANYONE WHO LOOKING FOR ONE <<2 MONTHS OLD STILL IN THE BOX ,, AND CASE ,,, FOR $1000....ITS A SHAME I HAVE TO Let IT GO ,,,,MAYBE GO WITH THE PIONEER ,,,

There never was a 2 deck view so im confused?

I even have an interest, but as I live in another country, I think it's impossible ... :-)

IBTL.... But good luck on getting a grand for it. Especially with the 380 out now. You'd be lucky to get $700-750 for it...

No joke. I've seen perfectly working NS6's with Flight Cases for considerably less than $1000. I think a few of them were even tossing in RedWaves.

FWIW, despite a a few minor shortcomings, the NS6 is still one helluva machine. IMO it's the best 4-channel solution for ITCH currently available.

Agree, played out with it for about 100 performance hours, in environments ranging from clubs to house parties, and it's still going strong. The only issue I've had is generated by bad USB cables--which is going to be a problem with any ITCH console--or even a solution like SL.

Sorry but that's not normal....I have never had a bad usb cable issue since serato was introduced in 2004.

Sure cables can go bad but never so often that it becomes an issue.

It took a while to figure out that the cable was bad. But trust me, it was bad. After I replaced it, no more problems.

Their is nothing wrong with the ns6 or itch. Alot of guys in here are running these macbook pros with a core 2 duo processor and thats the problem. After getting rid of my macbook pro with a core 2 duo processor in it, i never experienced another drop out.

Do you have ANY sort of documentation for this silly assertion, or are you misinterpreting an anecdote as data?

You can call it silly all you want but i know what i've experienced.

I call it silly because 30 out of the 31 Serato users I work with are using Core 2 duo generation 13" MBPs and literally no one has complaints or problems. You're far more likely to get hosed by RANE integration damage than anything to do with the computer.

2 Core 2 Duo machines here (PC's at that), 1 hackintoshed (Pics available for proof). Doing alright here...

Hackintoshes can be fun. Dell Mini Netbook on Snow Leopard running Ableton live VST FX Rane68 usb insert here > www.flickr.com

Ie bridge on SSL mac, extra Ableton running FX loop on the hackintosh
www.flickr.com

Sounds good, hope you get your problem solved because i did.

I just knew someone would have to be the one to ask, lol. I've posted this pic on this forum before, for the record. System specs available in my profile.
Feel free to look up the systems for yourself. One is a G50Vm-X1 and the other is a G51VX-RX05. You'll see that they are Core 2 Duo machines (though neither is running the stock processor. I replaced both with T9600's - www.newegg.com).

img259.imageshack.us
img221.imageshack.us

Hell yeah, that's pretty awesome. I've been considering a Thinkpad X220 once the prices come down. That form factor would be nice to have a hackintosh in. As you likely know, though, the biggest pain with Hackintoshes can be hardware compatibility and finding an adequate KEXT. I lucked out with the G50Vm-X1 as it has an Atheros miniPCI card as opposed to my G51 which has an Intel miniPCI card.