I know dog fighting is not cool i do not condone it.

But Mike Vick in jail is bullshit I felt the same way when they put Martha stewart in jail.

The vice president should be in jail for for getting kick backs on no bid contracts from Haliburton shooting some one in the face. And should be empeached for telling another member of congrass to go fuck your self while congrass was in session.


The Enron Ceo's should go to jail for fraud.

The president should be empeached for lying to congrass about the war and weapons of mass distruction that were never found.

And the presidents dad should have went to jail for the Iran Contra aid drug and weapons scandle and Oliver North giving Sadam all those fucking weapons.

This is bullshit i am really Pissed this shit is not fair.

i dont know where to start on this one... Ok number 1 michael vick tortured and killed dogs for losing fights. Martha stewart got advice on a stock. How can u compare the two??? 2...you want to impeach a vice president for cursing? Im not cheneys lawyer but come on. He did shoot his friend in the face but it was an accident. If it werent his friend would have pressed charges and cheney would have been indicted on attempted murder charges. 3...i dont know enough about halibutton to comment so i wont. I assume the was no hard evjdence to convict cheney. And as for bush i agree hes a moron but he acted on the intelligence he was given by his staff that is supposed to know their shit. I agree were in iraq too long however the war in afghanistan was necessary. Someone had to be held accountable for 911.

I just don't think you should do five years for dog fighting.
and 911 was done by Osama Bin Ladin Afganistan not Sadam and Iraq and you should read up on Haliburton and the Iran contra scandle and the president was cleaning up his dads name for selling sadam's the weapons he had to fight the shaw of Iran.
And the goverment gave Osama the weapons to fight the russians check it out

As a matter a fact when 911 happened the only people that could fly out of the USA was Osama's family members no one else Hmmm Intrusting all i have to say is check it out

I do not think you can compare people losing there lives to dog fighting which on is worse you tell me

The Spca kills dogs and cats every day and know one says a word

Grand t I agree that there's some shady shit going on with the bush administration but Afghanistan was necessary and that other stuff about bin ladens family flying out and we sold weapons to Iraq or Afghanistan is bullshit... I saw that fat America hating hating slob's movie also. Don't believe everything michael Moore says. Remember he's a filmaker and is in the entertainment business. His facts were never proven

No i am not talking about Micheal Moore's movie done 10 years to late i am talking about facts and history that i know are facts.

I worked for Kpix Ch5 a CBS station for eight years there are news story's that do not even make it to the news and are tolded to the networks to post or not to post the story and that i know that for a fact.

For exmaple the Rondey King story i seen it at 10 am in the morning the day before the story broke and all the networks were told not to air it till 5:30 am the next day if you even air a story that you are not suposed to you get very big fine and that's a fact and some will lose there job like the program director or the news director.

Another story told to the networks to stop posting is when the president mom said all the people in New Orleans should be happy they are living better than they have with the goverment aid and money. I still have friend's in the media and that story was told to stop showing it. And it just went away into thin air. Even when Kanye said bush hate's black people that story got swept under the rug.

I do not think Micheal Moore hate's America i think like me he hate's corrruption in the USA just like i do.

im an open minded dude and enjoy a good debate grand t and in this debate i think were both entitles to our views and thoughts. I assume ur from cali? Which as we know is no where near new york where im from. Im just askin u to put yourself in my shoes and think aboutt things a little differently if u witnessed 911 like have. That shit pisses me off more than u can ever comprehend. I am in manhattan all day everyday I was at the towers that day into the next. I have a brother that worked on the 92nd floor of the 1st tower that got hit, I personally know people that died and I know many families affected by 911. U can't imagine the rage one can feel when something like this happens in front of you. Someone had to pay and when I hear michael moores treasonous views I get disgusted.

I fill you steve and it is great to debate with respect for the other person's views. And 911 was way wrong but that does not give the president and his people the right to do what they wish. And use 911 as an excuse.
I have to go and spin at my weekly but we could get back to this tommorrow i will be on most of the day i am not working tommorrow.I think it is good to talk about these things just do it with respect for one another peace.

This thread is full of dumb.

not as dumb as dressing like Run Dmc

I am sure i will hear about it tomorrow got to go

back to Vic until u guys can finish the Bush 9/11 debate...

Five years in jail is a bit extreme for Dog Fighting and killing animals, but they wanted to set an example. In jail, he is still a celeb and probably gets special treatment anyway. I hate what he did, it was real fucked up. I think they should have really made him pay in a different way than in a jail cell.

I do feel he should have gotten some jail time (60 days to 1 year max) but he should have been fined up the ass (max $$$ for each dog he owned and each one he killed) plus do the maximum amount of community service for each dog.

Have him work at the Dog Pound or humane society cleaning kennels. cremating dogs and disposing of the remains, and shit like that. Make it mandatory on weekends and shit when he had to play.

Im glad he's going down. I think that's what he gets.

I love animals and I could care less about sports... so I'm cool with this one. lol

In any case, he prolly won't serve the full sentence anyway. They're just making an example out of him.

there freakin dogs...
who cares...
Our society, (mainly soccer moms and those lame @sses who put sweaters on dogs), have nothing better to do but to care about meaningless crap... like dogs.. Instead of people dying, war, and the drunk girl who keeps making dumb requests...

sorry I'm venting

Dogs are not meaningless. They provide better health for people. Yup. They make people happy which is something great.

lol @ drunk girl who keeps making dumb requests.

Let me come torture you DJ CISCO... then kill you. How would you like that? How about I come torture your family members then kill them? After all they are just people...

Dude, they are dogs. They have a life just like you and me and for someone to do that to them needs to be tortured and killed just like he did them. People like you disgrace me. If you told me that in person.. I'd probably slap the shit out you.

hahahaha

Yes, that's not a nice comment but if you're gonna make stupid comments like you left then you deserve it.

I take animals like I take people... some I love, some I hate.... it all comes down to individual personality in the end (for me).

Oh, and intelligence. Some people and some animals are just soooooo dumb umb mb b.... (echoed it out) lol

that is true ^^^ but none the less noone deserves to be tortured like vick did to those animals.

I don't know about that... there's a few people I would torture and kill right after.... and Vick would be one of those people.

leave your fetishes at the door...

Wtf? I ain't no baby killer.

I'm mad as hell cuz grand t calls our government "congrass". lol

hahahahahahaha

Motion relax...

yeah my comment was dumb.. sorry to all the dog lovers out there!!!
I just think people take dogs too seriously (SOMETIMES) and people are out there doing a lot worse that dont get in trouble for...

Was that PC enough??

lol @ PC enough....


I would like to add that some people who take pets waaaaaay too seriously should also be slapped. AKA people who think dogs are human. No. They're not human. They're cool, but they REAAAAALLY don't need clothes or cute holiday outfits. lol

exactly!!!

thanks for the back up sixxx

hahaha!

I had a dog when I was a kid and I like dogs. I can "understand" Vic fighting Pit's (many are born, raised, and bred to fight) if that is what he is into, that is acceptable. He bred or bought them to fight, and when they lost I guess he killed them. I eat the hell out of Cows and Pigs and Chickens, and what they do to those to commercially raise them is probably much worse than raising a Pit puppy for fighting.

Overall It is VERY wrong to fight and kill dogs and I would NEVER, EVER do it or wanna see it, but if that was his rush, so be it. He did it and got caught.

Just like dealing drugs, if you get caught you have to pay the price.

Again, I think long jail time is not a severe enough punishment and will really do no good for anyone involved. Make his ass clean dog shit and make him write some big fat checks in the form of fines and that will REALLY make him think long and hard about what he did.

I'm not a fan of football, or torturing animals. Don't get me wrong, I will eat the hell out of a cheeseburger, but I will not skin an animal while it is still alive to make me a coat.

Not sure how this became a 9/11 debate too though.

I'm with whoever said it before. The war in Afghanistan made sense. None of them pilots were trained in Iraq though. No WMD's were found, that whole team should have went down.

I m relaxed. I said what I wanted to already...

My dog is like a human to my family

My parents are deaf so they rely on dogs to get to help alert them etc..

BUT they dont' dress them up that's for dang sure....

LOL @ pc enough.

I didn't read most of this thread with the exception of the first and second thread, but here's my thoughts.....

Not because I am soon to be a cop, but.......

IF U COMMIT A CRIME, U DESERVE TO GET WHATS COMING TO U!

Regardless if your martha stewart, Vick, etc.

If the law doesn't get you, god will later.....

LOL!! you guys are hilarious

Hahaha. You must be kidding.

no im not he should be hung for treason. i guess u believe the government sent planes into american buildings

One thing you guys need to understand (as far as America doing what it does *prior Bush Administration*) We dont do ANYTHING, unless there is US interest. Giving weapons to both Iran and Iraq, well, they are on the largest oil reserve in the world. Whoever wins becomes our allies, which would of worked but 2 years after Iraq called the seize fire against Iran, they invaded Kuwait which was a no no.

Afghanistan.....We supplied Afghanistan with weapons, in return, we allowed them to export heroin and opium to pay for those weapons. Well, why would we do so? They were invaded by the USSR. This was toward the end of the Cold War, nevertheless it was still in the Cold War era. We were able to supply a militia to do the work that we always wanted to do but had no opportunity. Of course we will. Nobody can predict the future. After the ordeal with Afghan and USSR, the CIA began to watch Osama bin Laden, after working with him in the fight, saying, he would later be a threat.

We are always going to do things that are in the best interest for America at the time. Coming from a military/government view, Leaders in high power will make decisions that they will live and stand by for the rest of their lives! Keep this in mind. This isn't about parking your car outside when you knew you were gonna have a hail storm, and later saying, oops, maybe that wasn't a good idea. You will never see a Presidential Administration, Senator, General, or any other person in high power, say they were wrong or made a mistake. It doesn't happen. These are command decisions that affect millions of people. The thing most people don't realize, is that while it affects us personally, and bothers us when we get drunk and decide to talk politics, its destroying the lives on the other side.

Also, being able to go to Iraq, and meeting people along the way of Arab descent, I got to hear the "other" side of the story. The story any American will ignore. I tried to keep an open mind to this since my life would be on the line for the better part of a year, I'd like to know as much as I can about any given situation that I'm getting myself into.

I'm not gonna write anymore than I need to, so if you're curious you might want to read something written oddly enough by Serj Tankian from System of a Down. While this may seem "funny and an uneducated reaction" Serj happens to be a very educated person. He wrote an essay 2 days after 9/11, in which he caught a lot of negative attention for doing so. I just recently read this essay, but it was anything but new to me. Through out the time of going to Iraq, to now, I have met many Arabs (mainly here in the US) that I have discussed this topic with many times, and they've all said the same thing

Read the Essay if you really want to know a second side to this
wrestlingcasa.tripod.com

Nothing happens without a reason in this country. Sometimes, we won't really know the agenda of our government, but for the most part, whether it hurts others, its for our best interest. We have always operated like this, and with the rise of open minded thinkers, people are not liking the way things are handled. Well, thats America. I hate the way things work, but I've seen these other countries that run without power, and I appreciate very much being an American. Its not a perfect world.

Iraq was a victory that could of been an easy victory, but people up top made it a hard one that has costs close to a million lives so far with an estimated final budget of over 1 Trillion dollars.

If you get a chance, you should also watch "No End in Sight" by Charles Ferguson who takes you through all the mistakes that the Administration had made that has given the current turn out of Iraq. It is not so much a one sided documentary such as Fahrenheit 9/11. Very well made.


As for Michael Vick? I don't think he got what he deserved. His actions we not the result of a national crisis with critical time to respond. It was him being a fucking idiot. He had no pressure to kill dogs. He had no reason for other than entertainment. I dont believe the Bush Administration started a war so they could watch a 4 year "Blackhawk Down" movie. You get stressed at work....think what kind of pressure 9/11 would have been on ur shoulders.

Martha Stewart? Ok, well, I dont see how her stock tip would affect lives.

Whether it's human life, or that of a dog......killing animals, or torturing them, for entertainment? C'mon man.

Life is unfair. But, thats life. Life is short, I wouldn't spend that time worrying about someone who has millions of dollars and will be fine when released. I'd rather worry about the people who have no help, and no economy, and noone to protect their life and well being.

I think it's fair to say, and not to offend anyone, but there were many uneducated comments in this thread, and I hope this has helped some people a little bit. You can't say "they did this and they did that" and not know why. This is the United States of America, we don't just pick up thousands of weapons and dump them in the Middle East for no reason. We only help, and destroy when there is some US interest.

that might be one of the dumbest things i've ever heard. Bush acted on intelligence that was given to him. I dont stand behind him anymore, but at the same time, this was the LARGEST most devastating attack on US soil. There was a short time to gather intelligence, and short time to respond. We did this whole thing blind folded and it came to kick us in the ass. It has been handed poorly.


and....treason????? are you fucking serious?????? do you know anything about the iran/iraq war? anything at all about it? do you understand why it was important for our involvement?

Intelligence and Bush cannot go on the same sentence.

Thank you! I'll be here all week! :)