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Ableton live 8: warping 70's funk and disco tracks

L'Phonik 12:41 PM - 27 July, 2010
hey peeps!
just wondering if anyone had any tips beat warping in these genres.. i've been playing around with the 4 different warping modes.. but i'm not sure which is best. warp from here, warp at xxbpm etc.
Here's my prob. lets say a song starts at 110bpm.. it might go up to 113bpm.. i don't want to warp the whole song at one bpm cause it won't sound right..
Ideally, what i'd like to do is warp the first 32 beats for mix in... then let it play normally (without warping).. then start warping when im ready to mix out.
If anyone has any suggestions or has similar issues would appreciate input.
Cheers
DJ Shameless 7:29 PM - 27 July, 2010
the 'warp from here' and 'warp at xxbpm' is for auto warping, but it sounds like u want to do it manually.
this is gonna be a mission but try this.
load track
move the first warp maker to the first kick (or where you want to start mixing from)
cntrl-click and 'set 1.1.1 here' (zoom in to make sure)
now u gonna have to find the last beat u wanna warp (the 32nd one in ur case)
look for the corresponding marker, double click it and line them up manually.
now work back from that marker and line up the others if u need to.

good luck and clear you schedule for a few weeks... its gonna take a while.
L'Phonik 10:29 PM - 27 July, 2010
OOOH BOY! thats not what i wanted to hear! haha. this becomes even more of an issue when my entire collection is like this. feedback appreciated tho shameless :)

wondering tho..... is there a way i can set multiple bpms within one track?
the tempo for mix in at say 110 and line up those beats then leave the track to play normally.. then set the tempo from when i want to mix out at 113 (which would be more accurate to the actual bpm at that point?)
L'Phonik 10:37 PM - 27 July, 2010
thing is .. i dont mind if there is a slight change in tempo.. i'll just fix it on the fly.. but its the quick tempo changes in these songs which im trying to fix up so there won't be galloping :)
Evil_banana 11:44 PM - 27 July, 2010
Quote:
wondering tho..... is there a way i can set multiple bpms within one track?

yes and no, but for the way you want it (namely, 2 BPMS while warping)... no

The main idea if warping is, to set tempo-markers in your song which indicate "here is bar 33, here is bar 34, etc...". So if your song is loaded into Ableton, it will follow the tempo of ableton and it will able to do so, because of these tempo-markers (warp-markers). your song itself can not really have 2 tempos because ableton will not be able to tell whether it should sync to tempo 1 or tempo 2.

However... it is possible to change the tempo through automation within ableton, and I even think you can assign it within a clip. But idea is still the same: set your warp-markers for the entire song so it can sync to ableton-tempo. Abletons tempo can be changed, but the clip's tempo is going to be fixed. (but somehow I don' think that was what you were looking to do)

But most of the time, if your track as a more or less explicit beat, thump or whatever, Ableton will be able to find the beats and autowarp it properly with the change that you will have to make som corrections due to drumfills, break, etc...
But even so, with Ableton Live 8 recognizing Peaks and indicating them, it's gotten pretty easy to warp a song in a short timespan (not short enough to do your whole collection though)
Just make sure your expand your waveview as big as possible vertically and horizontally, it will mak it easier for you to recognize the beats almost pure visually.
Jeffsteez 12:15 AM - 28 July, 2010
Presumably he could warp the track with a constant bpm, then with ableton automation tools recreat the temp deliberate tempo changes present in the original.

I feel the pain though, I've warped a couple of disco/funk tunes in ableton and it took me ages... I can't even remember how I did it, but I'm sure it wasn't the most efficient way.
Dj Ace 1:19 AM - 28 July, 2010
yeah this something i would love to do for my oldschool/disco
DJ Shameless 11:27 AM - 28 July, 2010
I've read on these forums somewhere about 'pitch automation' used when making transition tracks. Same priniciple but u just wanna use it for one track as opposed to multiple tracks. Google it and see what comes up.
L'Phonik 1:57 PM - 28 July, 2010
cheers for all this guys. There doesn't seem to be a "short-cut" way so to speak to be able to do this. Warping house or hip hop tracks is no issue, It's pretty basic and once you set the 1.1.1, .... But when it comes to warping beats from a live band.. that's a whole other story.
DJJOHNNYM_vSL3 3:35 PM - 29 July, 2010
Ok, what is the purpose of "warping" ?
Evil_banana 4:54 PM - 29 July, 2010
Quote:
Ok, what is the purpose of "warping" ?

Basically your setting the timing for a track/loop (by setting markers or the overall BPM of the song). So ableton knows what the tempo of that audio is, and knows exactly how it is supposed to timestretch it in order to get it in sync with your ableton-project.

Nice thing is that this is a dynamic/adaptive technique, meaning that if you got a track that is not perfectly on beat (e.g. rock, funk, disco,...), you can actually indicate in the track where all the beats are. So Ableton will be able to apply different timings/timestretching to the audio to get it in sync with the Ableton-project anyway.

Let's say that you have an old disco-track that speeds up, slows down, speeds up again, and has some fill-in that is not exactly 1/2/3/4/... measures, you can basically straighten that track out and get it perfectly on beat, making it more suitable for mixing/remixing.

Check out youtube searching for "ableton 8 warping" to get a better idea. Or look at the ableton-website for promo-vids, I think there should be some there as well.
DJJOHNNYM_vSL3 5:04 PM - 29 July, 2010
So, this is basically, setting Live Drumming to Beat Machine drummings for easier mixing.
Evil_banana 5:35 PM - 29 July, 2010
Quote:
So, this is basically, setting Live Drumming to Beat Machine drummings for easier mixing.

yeah, you could put it that way. But not necessarilly for just mixing of course. Ableton's primary use is not DJ'ing. If you would want to remix or sample/chop up a song, you will want to warp it first, to make sure it will fit the tempo of your entire project. So if you take parts out of it and loop it, they will be in tempo. Or if you want to chop something up, it will be easier as well.
DJJOHNNYM_vSL3 6:00 PM - 29 July, 2010
Quote:
Quote:
So, this is basically, setting Live Drumming to Beat Machine drummings for easier mixing.

yeah, you could put it that way. But not necessarilly for just mixing of course. Ableton's primary use is not DJ'ing. If you would want to remix or sample/chop up a song, you will want to warp it first, to make sure it will fit the tempo of your entire project. So if you take parts out of it and loop it, they will be in tempo. Or if you want to chop something up, it will be easier as well.


Gotcha, I saw the JJ vid on that...

The part that I was confused on was how it would apply to DJ'ing, unless you're just making some sort of remix.
O.B.1 7:06 PM - 29 July, 2010
it's for people too lazy to ride the pitch making on the fly adjustments...
(kidding)
-or those who want to get "creative" with effects and loop rolls instead of constantly adjusting the pitch...

It essentialy quantizes the fluctuations of a live drummer, making those old songs easier to mix because they are 'snapped' to a grid (before studios strated using pro-tools and music still 'breathed' a little)

My sampler can do this by slicing a measure into tiny segments (32nd or 64th notes)
and rearranging the peices to fit within any BPM. (although it sounds better to speed it up than slow it down) -slowing it down tends to sound 'choppy'
Dj Ace 6:20 AM - 17 August, 2010
the bridge will be out within 24 hours sirrrrr...public beta now starting!!!1
Serato
Sean.C 8:05 AM - 17 August, 2010
get Warping!

S
vinylmanipulator 9:42 AM - 17 August, 2010
oh my.....
djfrancov 12:19 AM - 21 January, 2011
can you tap the grid with the space bar like serato?
tekniq 1:04 AM - 21 January, 2011
Split the track 32 beats from beginning, duplicate rest of it to other track and take warping off from that (single shot or something?) and then warp the 32 beat first piece of the song. Then "glue" them back together.
L'Phonik 11:45 AM - 21 January, 2011
ok ... so here's the thing.. u can warp the first 32 and the last 32 to a particular bmp.. but those old funk disco tracks change tempo throughout the song (usually faster at the end).... so whilst u can set an intro/outro to exactly 120 the track might go up to 125-128bpm before that point where you've fixed the outro at 120...... so...... how the fck do you get around this???

These days.. i'll just mix on the fly, and keep a finger on the record coming in ... no easy warping way around it i see....
DJMark 11:51 AM - 21 January, 2011
Quote:
ok ... so here's the thing.. u can warp the first 32 and the last 32 to a particular bmp.. but those old funk disco tracks change tempo throughout the song (usually faster at the end).... so whilst u can set an intro/outro to exactly 120 the track might go up to 125-128bpm before that point where you've fixed the outro at 120...... so...... how the fck do you get around this???


You can graphically set multiple tempos in a Live session. I've done that a few times for exactly that kind of reason. Just make a note of the in/out tempo in the title or wherever.
djfrancov 12:13 PM - 21 January, 2011
im trying to remix the whole song....time consuming...lol
ninjagaijin 3:57 PM - 21 January, 2011
Quote:
the 'warp from here' and 'warp at xxbpm' is for auto warping, but it sounds like u want to do it manually.
this is gonna be a mission but try this.
load track
move the first warp maker to the first kick (or where you want to start mixing from)
cntrl-click and 'set 1.1.1 here' (zoom in to make sure)
now u gonna have to find the last beat u wanna warp (the 32nd one in ur case)
look for the corresponding marker, double click it and line them up manually.
now work back from that marker and line up the others if u need to.

good luck and clear you schedule for a few weeks... its gonna take a while.


yeah this kind of stuff SUCKS. I tried with blues, country, all this crap, basically if you bother doing this, you might as well just remix it!!
Warp Man... 9:30 PM - 4 April, 2012
I'm an Abelton Live noob hoping to do the same thing as LPhonik ^

However I'm gonna try warping a whole disco track & see what it sounds like... Do I have to Warp every bar... & what's the best warping settings for these kind of tracks...???

+ After I've warped a track how do I save it, or re-record in mp3 or WAV or whatever so I can DJ it in Traktor...???
DJJOHNNYM_vSL3 12:59 AM - 5 April, 2012
RTFM
ninjagaijin 1:01 AM - 5 April, 2012
If it is sloppy live playing you generally need to make sure EVERY bar is exact.. you can try by just trying to stretch the whole tune.. but usually it will take work to zoom in and make sure EVERY beat hits on the right point.
ninjagaijin 1:02 AM - 5 April, 2012
Select what you want to 'save', file/export as - save as WAV file 44/48khz 24 bit

As for Traktor though, I wouldn't be able to tell you lol. Serato forum and all :)
djaction 2:14 AM - 5 April, 2012
Warped Funk tracks literally sound like shit and are no longer FUNK
dj_soo 3:56 AM - 5 April, 2012
Quote:
Do I have to Warp every bar... & what's the best warping settings for these kind of tracks...???


yes. At least for every beat that you intend to layer with something else.

If you're just trying to make a track easier to mix, you're better off just learning to ride the pitch.

complex pro.
studio17 10:11 AM - 5 April, 2012
Quote:
Warped Funk tracks literally sound like shit and are no longer FUNK
ninjagaijin 10:31 AM - 5 April, 2012
hehe
Warp Man... 1:39 PM - 5 April, 2012
Could I just warp parts of the tracks then like LPhonik was saying...?

Warp a mix in & mix out section & then let the middle bit roll...?

As I'm not gonna use Abelton to DJ... I'm gonna save the tracks as WAV & use Traktor...

That will work won't it & save some soul...?

Thanks a lot for the advice... Much appreciated!!!
Warp Man... 1:44 PM - 5 April, 2012
Quote:
RTFM


Says you douche bag...

Quote:
Ok, what is the purpose of "warping" ?
WarpNote 2:05 PM - 5 April, 2012
Make sure you have Complex Pro mode selected.
You could warp from the first down beat, then delete all warp markers past 32.
Then go to the end of the track, and warp the final measures.
Drag your track to the arrangement view, and manipulate the bpm if needed
(called "song tempo" in the master channel drop down)
If the warped beat sounds to static/monotone/dull/"computerized" (or whatever you call it), you could always add some swing with the groove tool... Watchwww.youtube.com
Warp Man... 2:44 PM - 5 April, 2012
Thanks a lot mate that's a BIG, BIG help... To the Bat Mobile...

...

Just one thing though that I'm confused about...

What's the difference between a yellow warp marker & grey warp marker...?

Thanks again for the help...
DJ Goce 2:55 PM - 5 April, 2012
Quote:
Warped Funk tracks literally sound like shit and are no longer FUNK

+ 10000000
WarpNote 3:06 PM - 5 April, 2012
Not entirely sure what you're asking WarpMan, but the grey triangles are markers where Ableton assumes the drum hits to be, while the yellow is where this has been forced into the grid. When using the complex pro you will see that most of the small grey ones retains their original postion off grid. This means it will not sound "shit" but retain orignal groove/swing. In this sense you have the "best of both worlds", ie good funk that is mixable..

Still I'd say this: I don't warp any of my tracks in my main library.
I only do it when creating pre-made mixes/edits for fashion runway shows, or when making re-edits.
CMOS 8:15 PM - 5 April, 2012
Quote:
Quote:
Warped Funk tracks literally sound like shit and are no longer FUNK


+ 10000000



For real warping a whole funk or old school track with a live drummer sucks the life out of it.
LilSwann 9:37 PM - 5 April, 2012
Quote:

Still I'd say this: I don't warp any of my tracks in my main library.
I only do it when creating pre-made mixes/edits for fashion runway shows, or when making re-edits.


But aren't the tracks you would editing or doing in a mix be in your main library?
DJ SPAIR 9:50 PM - 5 April, 2012
Another trick is to consolidate sections(like 4 bars of the song) then adjust your warp markers. If find easier when you have a lot of warping to do.
WarpNote 4:40 AM - 6 April, 2012
Quote:
Quote:
Still I'd say this: I don't warp any of my tracks in my main library.
I only do it when creating pre-made mixes/edits for fashion runway shows, or when making re-edits.


But aren't the tracks you would editing or doing in a mix be in your main library?

No, I have my SSL Library on the Laptop HD for my regular sets.
Then I have a huge main library (about 7-8 TB) on external raid.

Whenever I do a re-edit, I will source from either one, then export the edit, leaving the original untouched. I normally don't play that many re-edits. I usually stick with originals when mixing live. Whenever I need to mix a slightly off-beat "70's live drummer", I make a manual loop and nudge the mix. That's part of the fun using turntables IMO.
LilSwann 4:15 PM - 6 April, 2012
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Still I'd say this: I don't warp any of my tracks in my main library.
I only do it when creating pre-made mixes/edits for fashion runway shows, or when making re-edits.


But aren't the tracks you would editing or doing in a mix be in your main library?

No, I have my SSL Library on the Laptop HD for my regular sets.
Then I have a huge main library (about 7-8 TB) on external raid.

Whenever I do a re-edit, I will source from either one, then export the edit, leaving the original untouched. I normally don't play that many re-edits. I usually stick with originals when mixing live. Whenever I need to mix a slightly off-beat "70's live drummer", I make a manual loop and nudge the mix. That's part of the fun using turntables IMO.

True that +1!!!
DJ Alkemy 6:12 PM - 6 April, 2012
Do what you gotta do but I for one, LOVE mixing old school funk tracks. I know them songs inside out and I love riding the pitch to keep it on beat, its what mixing is all about for me. I get so bored mixing a beat in about 2 seconds (which every DJ should be able to do these days, what with all the info available). Thats why its great to go back and do these funk sets, keeps you on your toes. I wouldnt desecrate the funk classics by warping them, it would take all the funk and soul out f the music IMO.
ninjagaijin 5:41 AM - 7 April, 2012
Yep I like to do this with lots of genres.. from classic 50s rock, to polka, to metal, to dnb, to hip hop, to jungle, to idm, to breakcore, to soul, etc etc.. best thing to do is practice real vinyl and working it HARD :) and then learn how to work with as much subtlety as you can while working so hard!!
dj_soo 7:08 AM - 7 April, 2012
i prefer mixing unquantized, original tracks over perfectly quantized edits or remixes these days.

Just makes everything more fun and challenging - it's why will never go auto-beatmatching. It's just *fun* keeping tracks in sync without the aid of anything...
WarpNote 7:49 AM - 7 April, 2012
Amen to that soo. What DJ'ing is all about: good fun and quality music!
O.B.1 10:15 AM - 7 April, 2012
+1 on the fun of riding the pitch!
(especially on rock songs too)
I will only quantize something if it's for a re-drum edit or full blown remix, and often then it's just a short sample of it...
L'Phonik 12:46 AM - 2 August, 2012
I gave up on trying to warping funk and soul tracks 'cause, as CMOS mentioned earlier - it does take all the soul and the funk out of it, and the FUN aswell.
I don't mind if a track gets the better of me for awhile then i correct it, shows i'm actually mixing it and gives it a human element :)