DJing Discussion

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Whitelabel.net

sixxx 11:49 AM - 27 December, 2006
Wow. Serato just keeps getting better. Thanks
D-Twizzle 11:55 AM - 27 December, 2006
Sounds good. Will I be able to open the high quality mp3s in other programs to make edits? Or are they protected files that only Serato can play?
DjWoody 11:55 AM - 27 December, 2006
AWESOME!
Konix 11:58 AM - 27 December, 2006
Quote:
Sounds good. Will I be able to open the high quality mp3s in other programs to make edits? Or are they protected files that only Serato can play?


You can open them in any audio program, but they will be low quality mono files if you open them in any program besides SSL.
KitK 12:19 PM - 27 December, 2006
Is this for real? Or to good to be true??

I mean seriously.. could there be a better hook up??
Konix 12:21 PM - 27 December, 2006
It's for real.
D-Twizzle 12:25 PM - 27 December, 2006
So if I use my 57, put it in internal mode, lock it to 0%, I can record the file and have a high quality aif without any loss? I hope we get instrumentals too. I always make my own 8 bar intro/edits.
I'm guessing if you have digiwaxx, you probably won't need this service, but it's really great to have just in case.
sixxx 12:39 PM - 27 December, 2006
I get all kinds of music from all sources including directly from labels... it's just a matter of sorting out stuff and deciding what to keep and from where and why.
Freedom 12:41 PM - 27 December, 2006
The qaulity of the files at whitelabel seems to be higher than other palces..
Matt G 12:47 PM - 27 December, 2006
They're 320kbit :)
Freedom 1:34 PM - 27 December, 2006
I noticed the 10 meg download .. I like.. I like... Hi five..
matt212 1:37 PM - 27 December, 2006
This is nice...$500 for the greatest DJ program and a free MP3 pool, you can't beat that.
matt212 1:54 PM - 27 December, 2006
Okay, one question. I read the FAQ's and everything, but I still don't understand how they are getting the type of genre you are playing. Right now when I log in, I only see Hip Hop and R&B releases. There's nothing wrong with that because that's what I play, but I was just wondering if anybody else has something different showing or are the songs showing right now are generic until the site is up and running and you can choose what you want.

BTW, its about to be alot more members in here soon because of this once the word gets out.
echey 2:00 PM - 27 December, 2006
SERATO!
you are GREAT!

Thank you so much.
Matt G 2:11 PM - 27 December, 2006
matt212, that's just what's in there so far. It's still early days, so the genre coverage isn't everything it could be. But it'll be ramping up and get more diverse over time as we get more labels on board.
ekalb 2:28 PM - 27 December, 2006
question, will i have to give a review like digiwaxx AND will i be able the hear the B-side too
sixxx 2:32 PM - 27 December, 2006
Quote:
question, will i have to give a review like digiwaxx AND will i be able the hear the B-side too


No reviews... and what the hell are you talking about a B-side... this is an mp3.. not an actual vinyl. :P

The files will be uploaded individually: meaning one song with different versions.
Audio1 2:34 PM - 27 December, 2006
wish theyd support older versions of SSL.
ekalb 2:36 PM - 27 December, 2006
on digiwaxx after your give your review you can download the main track and the bonus track(b-side)
Matt G 2:39 PM - 27 December, 2006
Quote:
question, will i have to give a review like digiwaxx AND will i be able the hear the B-side too


No reviews necessary. There will be discussion areas for each release where you can talk about them, but only if you feel like it, and perhaps we'll add the ability to rate the tracks if that's a popular idea.

Each release usually includes multiple versions of the same track. ie a clean version, dirty version, a cappella, instrumental, and possibly some remixes.
sixxx 2:40 PM - 27 December, 2006
Quote:
on digiwaxx after your give your review you can download the main track and the bonus track(b-side)


which is not always true because sometimes you only get one single track, no instrumental, etc.
ekalb 2:45 PM - 27 December, 2006
yeah i downloaded a instrumental and it was the dirty version
Matt G 2:47 PM - 27 December, 2006
Oops. Which release was it?
ekalb 2:51 PM - 27 December, 2006
i got one artist (unknown) from digiwaxx and the bonus track was better than the main track but you have to download it to hear it
that's what i was asking
dj KarrsiN 2:59 PM - 27 December, 2006
Is Nice, the mp3's sound reall good!!
dj KarrsiN 2:59 PM - 27 December, 2006
No review baby!!!!
Revolutionary 4:36 PM - 27 December, 2006
Awesome...Best Christmas gift ever!
dj disturbed 4:47 PM - 27 December, 2006
very very very nice........ deff a good step in the right direction for us DJ's dealing with the Record Lables and the RIAA!!!
wakka 5:13 PM - 27 December, 2006
This definetely needs to be included in the Ranefest reviews at www.skratchworx.com
Sam 5:45 PM - 27 December, 2006
Quote:
This definetely needs to be included in the Ranefest reviews at www.skratchworx.com

let them know :)
dj dawn 5:54 PM - 27 December, 2006
SSL + whitelabel.net ...beat this FS2, Torq and others :D
DJ FLATLINE 6:42 PM - 27 December, 2006
I have the biggest smile on my face right now.....This is crazy....
dj720 6:49 PM - 27 December, 2006
where is this link or forms im supposed to fill out..i think i've missed a big chunk of this discussion
Daim 6:52 PM - 27 December, 2006
awesome!

let's hope the minimal/techhouse/techno labels will join sooner or later!!
DJ GaFFle 7:04 PM - 27 December, 2006
Suggestion/Thought:

Would it be a good idea to lock membership down to hardware owning SSL owners ONLY. You must have the unit's serial # to be a member... [I'm stingy].
Thundercat 7:04 PM - 27 December, 2006
In the news area, dj720.
dj dawn 7:13 PM - 27 December, 2006
Quote:
Suggestion/Thought:

Would it be a good idea to lock membership down to hardware owning SSL owners ONLY. You must have the unit's serial # to be a member... [I'm stingy].


Agree with this idea! More labels will join if they know that there is only DJs using their promos. I think some people (not DJs) wouldn't care if they get a low-fi version to carry around in their ipod! But I doubt that normal people would buy and use SSL just to get free music.
ekwipt 7:22 PM - 27 December, 2006
Quote:
awesome!

let's hope the minimal/techhouse/techno labels will join sooner or later!!


QFT
soeasy 7:25 PM - 27 December, 2006
the idea intrigues me. if you guys really do get some house or electro on there then we're talking about something to go nuts over. is this first case of a hardware company adding the option of content too? i can't think of anybody that's gonna sell me some tables then give me the records to play on them too.

there's gotta be some kind fo catch coming soon...
dj dawn 7:35 PM - 27 December, 2006
Quote:
there's gotta be some kind fo catch coming soon...

not with Serato :)
matt212 8:26 PM - 27 December, 2006
Quote:
Suggestion/Thought:

Would it be a good idea to lock membership down to hardware owning SSL owners ONLY. You must have the unit's serial # to be a member... [I'm stingy].


I think that's the reason why the tracks will only play in high quality in SSL. You can download them, but if you play them with anything other than SSL, they sound like shit.
matt212 8:28 PM - 27 December, 2006
...and yeah, what dj dawn said.
djaction 8:54 PM - 27 December, 2006
buhjeebus this is AWESOME. good job!
djaction 8:57 PM - 27 December, 2006
definately need some other Genre's of music though
grrillatactics 8:57 PM - 27 December, 2006
And SSL steps up the game by another few notches. This is awesome!

Thanks team!
nik39 9:44 PM - 27 December, 2006
Quote:
Quote:
Suggestion/Thought:

Would it be a good idea to lock membership down to hardware owning SSL owners ONLY. You must have the unit's serial # to be a member... [I'm stingy].


Agree with this idea! More labels will join if they know that there is only DJs using their promos. I think some people (not DJs) wouldn't care if they get a low-fi version to carry around in their ipod! But I doubt that normal people would buy and use SSL just to get free music.

As matt212 has outlined... you can only listen to the music in a decent quality if you use Scratch LIVE. So it is kinda restricted to DJs.
DJMello 9:47 PM - 27 December, 2006
Damn!! The SSL team just keeps delivering what DJs need!!! I can't even tell you how hard it was for me to find a pool with 320k files. Been trying to get by with the 192's. Thanks Team!!!
dj kiss 9:53 PM - 27 December, 2006
Downloading interface is awesome!!
djaction 9:59 PM - 27 December, 2006
house music please =)
Rebelguy 10:03 PM - 27 December, 2006
I can't believe it is finally up. I remember when I mentioned this was gonna happen a few months back and everyone thought I was crazy.
nik39 10:46 PM - 27 December, 2006
Quote:
I can't believe it is finally up. I remember when I mentioned this was gonna happen a few months back and everyone thought I was crazy.

Well, things havent changed a lot.. the only difference now is that people think Serato is crazy :)
dj shadow from detroit 10:53 PM - 27 December, 2006
how do you get internet web browser 7 (without validation?)
nik39 11:01 PM - 27 December, 2006
I dont think you can. Download firefox. wl.net works fine with firefox.
a-swift 12:07 AM - 28 December, 2006
sick!
diego vega 12:24 AM - 28 December, 2006
Thanks Serato! Just make sure you get some minimal-techno-tech-house please!
The General 12:39 AM - 28 December, 2006
This was a great Christmas present.
Dj Ryme 1:11 AM - 28 December, 2006
but mom, I asked for SSL 1.7 for christmas!
Dj-Pyro 1:44 AM - 28 December, 2006
nice!
allenbina 1:54 AM - 28 December, 2006
brilliant!
DJ A-NAK 1:56 AM - 28 December, 2006
i can't seem to access the site?? anyone post a link??
allenbina 2:04 AM - 28 December, 2006
Duran7609 2:05 AM - 28 December, 2006
can't seem to access the link either
allenbina 2:08 AM - 28 December, 2006
works for me...
try using firefox 2.0.0.1 (or whatever the newest one is)
also, make sure you're using the newest version of internet explorer (whatever it is, i dont use it).
nik39 2:10 AM - 28 December, 2006
It wont work correctly with IE6, you need firefox or IE7. Then try logging in here beta.whitelabel.net <- click.
DJ A-NAK 2:33 AM - 28 December, 2006
i got the beta page to work...is that the only one working?? or does the regular whitelable.net work just not in IE6
dj disturbed 3:10 AM - 28 December, 2006
whitelable.net does not officialy launch till the first of the year from what they posted in the news area...so i take it that thats when the regular one will be up and working!
monkeybiz 3:19 AM - 28 December, 2006
Now we need to lobby more labels to hop onboard and add more genres.
Sam 3:44 AM - 28 December, 2006
Hi all, sounds like Whitelabel.net is going down well!! ... spread the word ;)

If you are using an old browser, you should see this page: beta.whitelabel.net
We're working on support for old browsers. Let us know if you don't see this page.

We definitely plan to have a wider range of genres early next year. This is just the beginning!
sixxx 3:52 AM - 28 December, 2006
Quote:
Hi all, sounds like Whitelabel.net is going down well!! ... spread the word ;)

If you are using an old browser, you should see this page: beta.whitelabel.net
We're working on support for old browsers. Let us know if you don't see this page.

We definitely plan to have a wider range of genres early next year. This is just the beginning!


DON'T SUPPORT OLD BROWSERS.. move forward... not backwards.
Thundercat 3:53 AM - 28 December, 2006
Quote:
Suggestion/Thought:

Would it be a good idea to lock membership down to hardware owning SSL owners ONLY. You must have the unit's serial # to be a member... [I'm stingy].


Keep in mind that not every login will have access to every track. This is taken from the Whitelabel.net FAQ:

Why does my friend see different releases on Whitelabel.net?
Serato provides tools to record labels to allow them to send to a limited set of DJs, for example, the radio mix show DJs mentioned above. Serato will not be creating or maintaining these lists. If you want to get more new music, or if you want to get it sooner, you need to get on the label's VIP list! There many ways to do this - we will be working with existing promoters, digital delivery systems and record pools - being on their lists will get you more new music!
m0rph! 3:55 AM - 28 December, 2006
Wow... this is so much better than FutureTrax!!

Oh wait... they never got off the ground: scratchlive.net

TGFS!!! (Thank God For Serato) :-)
sixxx 3:56 AM - 28 December, 2006
Have you noticed that when you download something the location shows:


FS2.somethingsomethingsomething?

FS2? Lol
Matt G 4:16 AM - 28 December, 2006
Quote:
Have you noticed that when you download something the location shows:


FS2.somethingsomethingsomething?

FS2? Lol


Hahahaha. I never thought of that.

Of course, it stands for File Server 2 ;)
a-swift 4:20 AM - 28 December, 2006
fs is a typical indicator of file server in the it world.
ns is a typical indicator of name server (dns) in the it world.

just an observation.
a-swift 4:21 AM - 28 December, 2006
damn, matt beat me to it.
DJBlisk 4:39 AM - 28 December, 2006
Quote:
Quote:
Suggestion/Thought:

Would it be a good idea to lock membership down to hardware owning SSL owners ONLY. You must have the unit's serial # to be a member... [I'm stingy].


Keep in mind that not every login will have access to every track. This is taken from the Whitelabel.net FAQ:

Why does my friend see different releases on Whitelabel.net?
Serato provides tools to record labels to allow them to send to a limited set of DJs, for example, the radio mix show DJs mentioned above. Serato will not be creating or maintaining these lists. If you want to get more new music, or if you want to get it sooner, you need to get on the label's VIP list! There many ways to do this - we will be working with existing promoters, digital delivery systems and record pools - being on their lists will get you more new music!


how do you guys disntinguish djs?
Thundercat 4:49 AM - 28 December, 2006
Quote:
Serato will not be creating or maintaining these lists.
a-swift 4:52 AM - 28 December, 2006
Quote:
Suggestion/Thought:

Would it be a good idea to lock membership down to hardware owning SSL owners ONLY. You must have the unit's serial # to be a member... [I'm stingy].


some serato users don't actually own a box, like if the club has serato installed. some resident djs don't actually have their own box. i know some serato djs who have no box.
SeoulTrain 5:13 AM - 28 December, 2006
Thank you so very much!!!!!
sG 5:20 AM - 28 December, 2006
i was a Serato DJ w/o a box for over a year.
Crickett 5:28 AM - 28 December, 2006
Yo Whitelabel is HOTT!!!
Just keep it updated, And close it to the General public..Only for Serrato users...
s42000 6:00 AM - 28 December, 2006
Quote:
house music please =)


Let your favorite labels know about WL and they can make the music available.
Shaun W 6:03 AM - 28 December, 2006
What a great way to finish 2006 and start 2007!
nik39 6:05 AM - 28 December, 2006
/me thinking... what a great way to finish FS :)
matt212 6:06 AM - 28 December, 2006
I wondering if Torq is still worth the cheaper price. Hahaha
sixxx 6:12 AM - 28 December, 2006
Is it Torq or Dork? I'm always confused.
dj dawn 6:34 AM - 28 December, 2006
SSL 1.7 + WL will rock 2007!
Sam 7:31 AM - 28 December, 2006
Quote:
Quote:
house music please =)


Let your favorite labels know about WL and they can make the music available.


what he said ^^^^^

We can talk til we are blue in the face about whitelabel.net, but if it comes from YOU, the DJs, the labels will really take notice - that's why there are so many "hip hop labels" on there right now ... DJs were asking for it!
Dj Chinn 7:45 AM - 28 December, 2006
Quote:
Is it Torq or Dork? I'm always confused.


WORD ^^^^^^^
xalent69 7:48 AM - 28 December, 2006
Do we have to upload the songs through Serato? Since I use itunes I noticed that the songs are on 32 kbps.....
nik39 7:58 AM - 28 December, 2006
Quote:
Do we have to upload the songs through Serato? Since I use itunes I noticed that the songs are on 32 kbps.....

If you are not using SSL to playback you wont hear a good version, only the preview 32kbps version. Also you *must* have SSL software version 1.6.3 at least.
ekalb 8:04 AM - 28 December, 2006
DAMN! you guys (rane/serato) make feel like a 10 year old kid in toys-r-us
Sam 8:18 AM - 28 December, 2006
It just so happens I'm wearing my clown suit today.
James 8:18 AM - 28 December, 2006
and it is disturbing
matt212 8:21 AM - 28 December, 2006
lol
matt212 8:24 AM - 28 December, 2006
Damn...92 logged in and 164 guests over at WL.
DJ Barticus 8:53 AM - 28 December, 2006
first of, thanks for this, i like how you are using 320 kbps files

i am a little disapointed that you are using a protected format, but i guess you do what you gotta do
djbeatrock 9:01 AM - 28 December, 2006
How do I download the tracks? I'm having trouble doing this; I don't know wheter to click on the down-arrow or "right click, save target as." Where do the songs dl to?
sixxx 9:02 AM - 28 December, 2006
Just click on the arrow. That's what I did.
Matt G 9:03 AM - 28 December, 2006
Click the last button (the down pointing arrow) to download. That will download the file through your browser's normal download process, which means it'll get downloaded to where you select (or where your normal downloads folder is).

The right pointing arrow is for previewing the tracks. It plays a portion of the track right in the page.
djbeatrock 9:38 AM - 28 December, 2006
I already tried that, but it won't dl the whole song. I use IE7 and the green bars at the bottom of the webpage only upload to about 50% each time. Can anybody help?
Matt G 9:44 AM - 28 December, 2006
Ok, there's a problem with downloading tracks at the moment, due to high load. We're working on it.
Izzy 10:47 AM - 28 December, 2006
Wow... time to make some coffee.
djmetaphysics 10:47 AM - 28 December, 2006
Damn, this is the $hit like I was promised when i bought serato.
thanks for commin though.
Dj Chinn 12:08 PM - 28 December, 2006
I must say i Appreciate with all my heart Im tearing up as I type!
CarbonDJ 12:20 PM - 28 December, 2006
Way to go Serato!! This just made my day...I'm on cloud nine right now!
DJKasper_YNY 1:20 PM - 28 December, 2006
yeah this is crazy. thanks alot... its nice they included instrumentals for alot of tracks too. : )
Dj Shamann 1:27 PM - 28 December, 2006
Fack the site doesn't support my browser, and IE7 causes hassles with my PC. What's a man to do?
Dj Shamann 1:58 PM - 28 December, 2006
Okay I DL'd Firefox and went to the site, it says ny email isn't a real address. I'm using the same login as this site, anybody else having this problem?
Corex 2:47 PM - 28 December, 2006
hey i actually posted this in the WL forum but havent got an answer, so i'm posting it here hopefully i'll get one
"I'm a young dj in my city, 15 years old only right now, but i've been working with the big radio station out in my city doing the all ages club jams and some of the older club shows. Also, I've been djing on the radio lately too, but I dont understand how I'm suppost to get onto the promoter lists and other lists to get more new music from wl. Can one of the administrators fill me in."
scotty B 10:41 PM - 28 December, 2006
So if we are registered here are we automatically registered on whitlabel? It said my Name was already taken??
nik39 10:44 PM - 28 December, 2006
Quote:
So if we are registered here are we automatically registered on whitlabel?

Yep. Same email-address, same password.
a-swift 10:49 PM - 28 December, 2006
Quote:
hey i actually posted this in the WL forum but havent got an answer, so i'm posting it here hopefully i'll get one
"I'm a young dj in my city, 15 years old only right now, but i've been working with the big radio station out in my city doing the all ages club jams and some of the older club shows. Also, I've been djing on the radio lately too, but I dont understand how I'm suppost to get onto the promoter lists and other lists to get more new music from wl. Can one of the administrators fill me in."


try digiwaxx. they cater to radio djs. they're also free download service.
DJ RECKONIZE 11:57 PM - 28 December, 2006
Quote:
Quote:
question, will i have to give a review like digiwaxx AND will i be able the hear the B-side too


No reviews... and what the hell are you talking about a B-side... this is an mp3.. not an actual vinyl. :P

The files will be uploaded individually: meaning one song with different versions.


Listen to the B-side uh? Classic. lol!
a-swift 12:04 AM - 29 December, 2006
i always put b-sides on my mp3s. i like them better that way.

and please do NOT bring up reviews here. that's the single worst thing about digiwaxx. the reviews! oh, and the quality too.
DJ RECKONIZE 12:12 AM - 29 December, 2006
Quote:
Quote:
Hi all, sounds like Whitelabel.net is going down well!! ... spread the word ;)

If you are using an old browser, you should see this page: beta.whitelabel.net
We're working on support for old browsers. Let us know if you don't see this page.

We definitely plan to have a wider range of genres early next year. This is just the beginning!


DON'T SUPPORT OLD BROWSERS.. move forward... not backwards.

Agreed. Have the users upgrade to recieve the new stuff.
DJ RECKONIZE 12:42 AM - 29 December, 2006
Quote:
Quote:
Hi all, sounds like Whitelabel.net is going down well!! ... spread the word ;)

If you are using an old browser, you should see this page: beta.whitelabel.net
We're working on support for old browsers. Let us know if you don't see this page.

We definitely plan to have a wider range of genres early next year. This is just the beginning!


DON'T SUPPORT OLD BROWSERS.. move forward... not backwards.

Agreed. Have the users upgrade to recieve the new stuff.
Corex 12:43 AM - 29 December, 2006
Quote:

Agreed. Have the users upgrade to recieve the new stuff.


well if it aint broke dont fix it? i'm using firefox so i'm ok, but still, the fact remains... some people like it old casue it doesnt crash every 2 seconds like some of the new browsers out there.

Quote:
try digiwaxx. they cater to radio djs. they're also free download service.

and yeah, i'm on digiwaxx already.. just trying to get myself on as many pools as I can.
sixxx 12:50 AM - 29 December, 2006
Quote:
Quote:

Agreed. Have the users upgrade to recieve the new stuff.


well if it aint broke dont fix it? i'm using firefox so i'm ok, but still, the fact remains... some people like it old casue it doesnt crash every 2 seconds like some of the new browsers out there.

Quote:
try digiwaxx. they cater to radio djs. they're also free download service.

and yeah, i'm on digiwaxx already.. just trying to get myself on as many pools as I can.


Correct. whitelabel.net isn't broke.. so don't fix it by trying to support old browsers...

See how I flip it on you? :P
MSF 2:11 AM - 29 December, 2006
This is like, 'WOW'.

Good Job Serate/Rane team.
concorde_pilot 4:19 PM - 3 January, 2007
i would like an option to rate the tracks ...
and what does whitelabel mean with "bona fide professional dj" (terms and conditions)?? a bit vague for me...
rlaci 4:43 PM - 3 January, 2007
house, electro and techno please!!!
panchito 5:33 PM - 3 January, 2007
Quote:
i would like an option to rate the tracks ...
and what does whitelabel mean with "bona fide professional dj" (terms and conditions)?? a bit vague for me...


someone correct me if I'm wrong I think most promo records had plain white labels hence the name Whitelabel. correct?
DJUnknown 6:24 PM - 3 January, 2007
^^^I think you misunderstood the question (though it, the question, could have been written a little better/clearer)
panchito 8:02 PM - 3 January, 2007
Quote:
^^^I think you misunderstood the question (though it, the question, could have been written a little better/clearer)



my bad, you right I didn't understand the question, actually I just read throgh this thread too quickly because of my excitment about the subject. LOL
marknonsense1 5:19 AM - 4 January, 2007
ok can someone tell me whats all this good stuff about this record pool I got one song and played it... it sounds like sh** I got the same one from djcity.com and it sounds way better? help me understand whats so hot about low-fi... maybe I just don't know yet...?


myspace.com/djmarknonsense1

Let me know serato people, if you can thanks

are you guys working with apple to make a better macbook? if so will the leopard fix everything?
marknonsense1 5:31 AM - 4 January, 2007
I also see that your saying that the mp3 are at 320kbps but when I look at it, it's saying that they are at 32kbps? whats that all about?

I use the 57sl and I think you guys should take a look at the efx-1000 when working on your next mixer..... if you had something like that in it I would love it way more! not that I don't but I've had it for about 1.5 weeks now and I got to say I'm thinking it's little hard to use but I know i'll get it with time.......


If you guy need more ideas let me know... lol
James 6:09 AM - 4 January, 2007
marknonsense1, are you playing the whitelabel tracks in Scratch LIVE 1.6.3?
wakka 6:13 AM - 4 January, 2007
Osiris 6:17 AM - 4 January, 2007
Quote:
ok can someone tell me whats all this good stuff about this record pool I got one song and played it... it sounds like sh** I got the same one from djcity.com and it sounds way better? help me understand whats so hot about low-fi... maybe I just don't know yet...?


Quote:
I also see that your saying that the mp3 are at 320kbps but when I look at it, it's saying that they are at 32kbps? whats that all about?


The way I understand it is that the MP3 actually has 2 parts. One part is 32 Kbps which is what you hear if you play it in Winamp, WMP, iTunes, etc. The second part of that same MP3 is 320 Kbps and can only be played in SSL 1.6.3 or better. So if you play the file in any other audio app other than SSL, what you will hear is the low quality version!

It's an extra measure to help prevent piracy.
Sheeds 6:38 AM - 4 January, 2007
Quote:
I also see that your saying that the mp3 are at 320kbps but when I look at it, it's saying that they are at 32kbps? whats that all about?

I use the 57sl and I think you guys should take a look at the efx-1000 when working on your next mixer..... if you had something like that in it I would love it way more! not that I don't but I've had it for about 1.5 weeks now and I got to say I'm thinking it's little hard to use but I know i'll get it with time.......


If you guy need more ideas let me know... lol

Reading is fundamental, ladies and gents.
marknonsense1 6:59 AM - 4 January, 2007
Quote:
marknonsense1, are you playing the whitelabel tracks in Scratch LIVE 1.6.3?


Yes is that not good?
Matt G 8:22 AM - 4 January, 2007
Are you playing them in the release version of 1.6.3, not a beta? The tracks will only play at 320kbit in the final version of 1.6.3 or in 1.7. Any previous versions will only be able to play the 32kbit part of the file.
marknonsense1 7:13 PM - 4 January, 2007
Quote:
Are you playing them in the release version of 1.6.3, not a beta? The tracks will only play at 320kbit in the final version of 1.6.3 or in 1.7. Any previous versions will only be able to play the 32kbit part of the file.


I'm playing them in the 1.6.3 version I got from scratchlive.com and I use a macbook to play them with the 57sl. on jbl eong2's, As for beta I really don't know much about it but isn't it for pc?

If you like I can email one of my files from the site I get them from and you can take a look... thanks let me know..
sixxx 9:22 PM - 4 January, 2007
Beta versions of the software are released for mac and pc... ALWAYS. If you think you might have the wrong version, download the new one... or 1.6.3 final and reinstall that.
a-swift 9:39 PM - 4 January, 2007
Quote:
Quote:
Are you playing them in the release version of 1.6.3, not a beta? The tracks will only play at 320kbit in the final version of 1.6.3 or in 1.7. Any previous versions will only be able to play the 32kbit part of the file.


I'm playing them in the 1.6.3 version I got from scratchlive.com and I use a macbook to play them with the 57sl. on jbl eong2's, As for beta I really don't know much about it but isn't it for pc?

If you like I can email one of my files from the site I get them from and you can take a look... thanks let me know..


It sure sounds to me like you are not playing the wl.mp3 files in a release version of 1.6.3 or 1.7 beta. I think people generally agree the files do sound very good in the correct version of SSL.

The 32kb preview is not very good though. It sounds like you are listening to that.
Matt G 9:41 PM - 4 January, 2007
As sixxx says, try downloading 1.6.3 again from www.scratchlive.net
Osiris 12:13 AM - 5 January, 2007
They sound perfect running in SSL on my laptop... You need to explore everything that could possibly be wrong. If that means downloading and reinstalling the software, then that's what you should do. If you downloaded the MP3 off of the beta site, then you have the correct MP3. There isn't 2 versions of it. It is simply 1 file.

Beta versions of the SSL software must be released on both MAC & PC for testing purposes on both platforms. This is to ensure you that when the final version of the software is released, it will run properly on either platform. All software (Mac or PC) goes through some sort of beta testing before the final product is released.
Thundercat 12:27 AM - 5 January, 2007
Make sure that you don't do something that strips the file's id3v2 tag data or converts it to unicode.
Matt G 1:31 AM - 5 January, 2007
Quote:
Make sure that you don't do something that strips the file's id3v2 tag data or converts it to unicode.


Good point. Editing the tags of a Whitelabel.net MP3 in a tag editor can possibly destroy the 320kbit portion of the file. Some tag editors won't do damage, but some might, so be careful.
nik39 1:33 AM - 5 January, 2007
DIdnt someone mentioned that some tag editors tried to convert the wl.net audio embedded into the tag into unicode?
Thundercat 1:51 AM - 5 January, 2007
Yes. TagClinic made a mess of the .wl file. I don't think many people saw that post because...
nik39 1:56 AM - 5 January, 2007
Then someone nees to warn them in the release notes or somewhere. Matt?
marknonsense1 2:03 AM - 5 January, 2007
ok got it all fixed thanks.... are you guys going to put up some reggaeton?
Matt G 2:03 AM - 5 January, 2007
Hm. I thought it was already in the FAQ, but it appears not. Adding now.
nik39 2:39 AM - 5 January, 2007
Thanks Matt. Maybe its also worth explicitly mentioning TagClinic and the version which makes problems, so people avoi using that app with wl.net files.
J_Static 5:17 AM - 5 January, 2007
Rane and Serato Admins all I gotta say is: BOUT F*CKIN TIME, oh and GOD I LOVE U GUYS......

When I start making DJ AM money I'll take the entire Rane and Serato family out for steak and lobster dinner and we can wash down our food with whatever expensive alcohol is on the menu!

Cheers you bastards, you have yet to fail me and the rest of the DJ's here on this forum....
AmphetaMarinE 2:03 PM - 5 January, 2007
What J_Static said....
fo sho
dj disturbed 5:05 PM - 5 January, 2007
Quote:
Hm. I thought it was already in the FAQ, but it appears not. Adding now.


You know no one ever reads those things.. they just see FREE MUSIC and start downloading.... just look at all the peps on the WL forum complaining about how LOW quality the tracks are b/c they played them in a regular mp3 player b4 hearing them in SSL
J_Static 6:34 PM - 5 January, 2007
I like that name "AmphetaMARINE" Classic and original
skinnyguy 6:51 PM - 5 January, 2007
nobody reads FAQs, manuals, agreement conditions, and sticky threads.
sixxx 6:54 PM - 5 January, 2007
I can't seem to get the files to play in high quality. Does anyone know why?

:P

Sorry. I'm new.

hahaha
J_Static 6:58 PM - 5 January, 2007
yea sixxx, ur new like this forums new....

U and Clark be getting off that "I'm new here" sh*t, messing with these newbie's
a-swift 8:07 PM - 5 January, 2007
Quote:
Quote:
Hm. I thought it was already in the FAQ, but it appears not. Adding now.


You know no one ever reads those things.. they just see FREE MUSIC and start downloading.... just look at all the peps on the WL forum complaining about how LOW quality the tracks are b/c they played them in a regular mp3 player b4 hearing them in SSL


I read the terms and conditions, start to finish. Quite a few interesting things in there, especially when it comes to what you are agreeing to let Serato do with your personal information.
society 8:12 PM - 5 January, 2007
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Hm. I thought it was already in the FAQ, but it appears not. Adding now.


You know no one ever reads those things.. they just see FREE MUSIC and start downloading.... just look at all the peps on the WL forum complaining about how LOW quality the tracks are b/c they played them in a regular mp3 player b4 hearing them in SSL


I read the terms and conditions, start to finish. Quite a few interesting things in there, especially when it comes to what you are agreeing to let Serato do with your personal information.


Really? Like what?
DJ BLuv 9:06 PM - 5 January, 2007
So this is like a really rookie question but I have to ask. I use a PC to do all of my preproduction and downloading. I then move it to my MBPro via CD/DVD. Will I still be able to do this with Whitelabel files?
sixxx 10:29 PM - 5 January, 2007
Moving files is OK. Remember, as long as you play them through Serato, they'll sound as they should sound.
marknonsense1 1:12 AM - 6 January, 2007
how do I start a new discussion, I didn't have the serato cd with me on new year and one of the djs wanted to use the 57sl... YES he had 1.6.3 on this computer but the mixer was not coming up, so I try to hook up the serato box and use the 57sl as a stand alone but it didn't want to work?

Why and if it makes a good stand alone mixer why can't you use it with the box ( just in case you know) let me know if 1.7 or whatever is next will be able to use the mixer for pc with out the cd.... thanks
AmphetaMarinE 3:31 AM - 6 January, 2007
Quote:
I like that name "AmphetaMARINE" Classic and original

Aww thanks J_Static..
I kinda like it too :)
DJ Clark Breaking-Records.com 3:45 AM - 6 January, 2007
Quote:
how do I start a new discussion...


Click on this:

scratchlive.net


This should start a new "thread" in the correct place, Amigo.
MusicMeister 4:18 AM - 6 January, 2007
Quote:
I read the terms and conditions, start to finish. Quite a few interesting things in there, especially when it comes to what you are agreeing to let Serato do with your personal information.


Stuff like this?
You can't backup the whitelabel files AT ALL.
All other rights excluded: For the avoidance of doubt, any Download or any part of any Download may only be used by the User personally for Promotional Purposes, remains the property of the Record Label, and may not be sold, rented, reproduced (in any manner, including for backup purposes), broadcast, distributed, adapted, in any form.

You better not lie on the original form you filled out for access to the Serato forum:
(d) all information submitted by the User with the User
s application for registration to Serato is complete, accurate and true.

Better be a professional DJ... but it's REAL hard to tell what's professional - check check out this thread:
scratchlive.net
(c) the User is a bona fide professional DJ; and

Better not try to reverse engineer the tracks so they can play in a 'normal' player - or give a track to anyone who might:
(b) not to copy, sell, rent, reproduce, broadcast, distribute, adapt, reverse engineer, reverse assemble or reverse compile any Download or any part of it, or in particular to do anything to circumvent the copy protection in any Download and the software that plays it, or to permit any other person to do any such thing.

[b]And your personal information? They can give it all (except your email address) to the record companies:[b]
4.1 Consent to use of information: The User agrees that any and all information about the User held by Serato may be used in the following ways:
(a) communicating the User�s public details to enable Record Labels to decide which Downloads to make available to a User;
(d) allowing Record Labels to see which of their Downloads have been downloaded and/or previewed by the User.

And if you do something stupid (like reverse engineer the track processing) and it costs Serato money you have to pay them back:
5.4 Enforcement costs: Serato may recover any reasonable costs incurred by it enforcing the provisions of this Agreement, including debt collection costs and any legal costs as between solicitor and client from the User.

And if they end up suing you, you better be ready to travel.... to NEW ZEALAND!
7.4 Governing Law: This Agreement will be construed and take effect as a contract made in New Zealand and will be governed by New Zealand law, and the parties submit to the non-exclusive jurisdiction of the New Zealand courts.

Ouch..... here's a hint... follow the RULES...
nik39 5:07 PM - 6 January, 2007
Ouch.
society 5:46 PM - 6 January, 2007
Actually, those rules don't sound that unreasonable. Just don't lie about anything or do anything shady and it sounds like you're straight.

Although that "professional DJ" thing seems a bit wonky...
Tommyillfigure 6:31 PM - 6 January, 2007
Just a thought:
Could I use the same code like on the whitelabel mp3s to my own remix mp3s? So that only Serato user can play them on full quality?
MusicMeister 8:18 PM - 6 January, 2007
Quote:
Just a thought:
Could I use the same code like on the whitelabel mp3s to my own remix mp3s? So that only Serato user can play them on full quality?

You'd probably need to start with a conversation with Serato Audio Research and/or Jeff Diones (who represents whitelabel.net in the US).
beta.whitelabel.net
Look for this section:
What is Serato's role in Whitelabel.net?
Dj K.Smith 9:21 PM - 6 January, 2007
When is there gonna be some new music on there?

Thanks I'm new...
dave 3:39 AM - 8 January, 2007
Quote:
Rane and Serato Admins all I gotta say is: BOUT F*CKIN TIME, oh and GOD I LOVE U GUYS......

When I start making DJ AM money I'll take the entire Rane and Serato family out for steak and lobster dinner and we can wash down our food with whatever expensive alcohol is on the menu!

I'm glad you like it. I'll have a Laphroaig. Neat, thanks.
marknonsense1 3:52 AM - 8 January, 2007
It says

You can't backup the whitelabel files AT ALL.
All other rights excluded: For the avoidance of doubt, any Download or any part of any Download may only be used by the User personally for Promotional Purposes, remains the property of the Record Label, and may not be sold, rented, reproduced (in any manner, including for backup purposes), ((((((((((BROADCAST))))))))))))), distributed, adapted, in any form.

CAN I PLAY THEM ON THE RADIO?
DJKasper_YNY 4:27 AM - 8 January, 2007
yeah just dont tell serato.
oooops

LOL

joking
sixxx 5:08 AM - 8 January, 2007
Well, I'm sure everyone will be violating the backup portion of the limitations within whitelabel.net

I'm sorry fellas.. but I gotta back up my shit. I'm NOT going to be downloading everything again. Besides, I back up all my shit once a week. It's just the smart thing to do.
J_Static 6:45 AM - 8 January, 2007
Sweet!!! Dave sounds kick ass!!!!!

I 2nd Sixxx's words on backing up things.....
djaction 7:25 PM - 8 January, 2007
So I take it theres not going to be any EDM / HOUSE Music on whitelabel.net? Just crappy/radio garbage hip hop records?
Matt G 9:03 PM - 8 January, 2007
There will be far more variety of music on Whitelabel.net as the year progresses. Many of the labels only learnt about the site at the same time as you guys, so the lines of communication between us and them are only just opening up now.

Keep an eye out over the next few months. The breadth of genres will expand, as well as the rate of new releases.
®i!su 11:39 PM - 8 January, 2007
uk dnb please :)
Dj Chinn 4:48 AM - 9 January, 2007
If we can DnB in there I will be like Charlie finding the WIlly Wonka's Golden Ticket!!!! " Ive got the Golden Drum n Bass" *whistlng in the background*
J_Static 5:56 AM - 9 January, 2007
I 2nd everyone above me about D-N-B, and yes house will do as well.... Serato/Rane should take aim at alot of different records labels like: "Hey you wanna get your music heard around the globe, give us your tracks BE-OTCH!!!!
djaction 2:29 PM - 9 January, 2007
its sad that I spin hip hop and at the moment I have no use for any of this stuff on whitelabel.net .. it IS dead.
s42000 3:19 PM - 9 January, 2007
I have no qualms with WL, shi!t is free !!!
capo di exmixah 4:22 PM - 9 January, 2007
So lets say I grab a song from whitelabel but would like to use soundforge to edit, raise/lower the volume of said track before use in SSL, how do I do this without messing with its bitrate quality.... since outside of SSL the quality is shot to shit.

In other words if the downloaded track does not have the feel and texture of my other tracks (achieved through processing via acid soundforge etc) how am I suppose to process this whitelabel track, transfer it to itunes and maintain its bitrate? Bear in mind too that I dont use SSL crates .... all my music is organised in itunes from which SSL reads
James 9:54 PM - 9 January, 2007
Quote:
So lets say I grab a song from whitelabel but would like to use soundforge to edit, raise/lower the volume of said track before use in SSL, how do I do this without messing with its bitrate quality.... since outside of SSL the quality is shot to shit.
You could use the track gain knobs in SSL - the gain setting is stored per-track, or use auto-gain in 1.7.
AmphetaMarinE 1:07 AM - 10 January, 2007
Also, if we modify the tracks in any way in say... audacity, like to extend instrumental sections for looping, will it affect the 320kb quality in SSL?
I see in there that the left channel is 32kbps audio, and the right channel is just noise, which I assume is some sort of encoded data to allow SSL to play the track at 320kb.
So if I make all changes to both channels, does it stop the file working correctly? or will this work?
I will be trying it when I get home, but an answer before then would be kinda cool ;)
DJPRECISE-NYC 3:31 AM - 10 January, 2007
What's good people!!! I organize all my tracks via iTunes also. Will running these files thru iTunes affect the quality (bitrate) while the file is playing in SSL?
Pete Moss 3:39 AM - 10 January, 2007
It always seems like the labels HAVE to give away the new hip-hop stuff.
Matt G 4:09 AM - 10 January, 2007
Organising the tracks in iTunes won't affect their high quality playback in Scratch LIVE. So iTunes users, no need to worry.

You can put the tracks in iTunes just like you would with any other track. The only difference is that when you play them in iTunes they'll only play at 32kbit. But in Scratch LIVE they'll still play 320kbit.
society 5:33 PM - 10 January, 2007
Quote:
its sad that I spin hip hop and at the moment I have no use for any of this stuff on whitelabel.net .. it IS dead.


Word--they can't even GIVE it away! Just kidding...sort of.

I feel the same way--I love hip-hop but nothing I've seen makes me jump on that download button. Hopefully that'll change as the site/project develops.
Flipsta 9:11 PM - 17 January, 2007
This may have already been answered but...

All the tracks availble can be acquired from Diggiwaxx too, so whats the point?? On Diggiwaxx I get the files in a regular mp3 that can be played in anything. Are there going to be exclusives or any other thing that would intice us to use a propietary format that can only be played in Serato?
DJJOHNNYM 9:26 PM - 17 January, 2007
Do you have to pay for Diggiwaxx?
Flipsta 9:27 PM - 17 January, 2007
ummm...is that a serious question?
djaction 9:28 PM - 17 January, 2007
Digiwaxx is Free. Whitelabel.Net is NOT free.

Easy enough.
nik39 9:36 PM - 17 January, 2007
Why is digiwaxx free and wl.net not?
djaction 9:38 PM - 17 January, 2007
Quote:
Why is digiwaxx free and wl.net not?


Gotta ask the guys @ Rane about that. When that little black box that says Serato on it is free.. well then whitelabel.net will be free.
DJJOHNNYM 9:38 PM - 17 January, 2007
Yeah, I've never been to Diggiwaxx...I wouldn't know.

Whitelabel is DEFINATELY FREE....well, at least the lo-fi files are.

But if you THINK about it...

If you're part of a record pool, and have to pay "X" amount of dollars a month for it, say, 50 bucks a month....Within a years time, you will have spent 600 bucks.

Now with Serato, you buy the Hardware for a little UNDER 600 bucks (just for the interface), and you cop the record pool FOR FREE. That's it... After a year, Serato will have paid for itself PURELY by the addition of the record pool compared to those that would charge.

That is a great deal, if you know you'll always use Serato in the future. Actually that's an EXTRAORDINARY PACKAGE if you ask me. You get the hardware, and you get access to songs to play on it, EARLY. Yeah it takes the "Digging" out of the craft, but hey.....From a business point of view, that was a grand move.
Thundercat 9:40 PM - 17 January, 2007
Quote:
Whitelabel.Net is NOT free.


I haven't gotten a bill from Whitelabel.net yet. Is it quarterly? How much is the charge per song?
nik39 9:40 PM - 17 January, 2007
The tracks are still there for free. You dont have to own SSL to download them. ;)

Well, two things you gotta consider:

1. digiwaxx: feedback is mandatory and takes time to post, quality of tracks is often below average
2. wl.net: no feedback, but tracks are not unlocked, good audio quality so far.
djaction 9:41 PM - 17 January, 2007
Quote:
The tracks are still there for free. You dont have to own SSL to download them. ;)

Well, two things you gotta consider:

1. digiwaxx: feedback is mandatory and takes time to post, quality of tracks is often below average
2. wl.net: no feedback, but tracks are not unlocked, good audio quality so far.


You don't need to have purchased SSL to access whitelabel.net?
Thundercat 9:42 PM - 17 January, 2007
Quote:
If you're part of a record pool, and have to pay "X" amount of dollars a month for it, say, 50 bucks a month....Within a years time, you will have spent 600 bucks.


F&#@ing Rooney was grippin' us for $60 a month!
djaction 9:43 PM - 17 January, 2007
and for the record I'm not hating on either just offering up a different way to look at it. However I do agree that Whitelabel.net should be ONLY for SSL users.
DJJOHNNYM 9:44 PM - 17 January, 2007
Quote:
Quote:
The tracks are still there for free. You dont have to own SSL to download them. ;)

Well, two things you gotta consider:

1. digiwaxx: feedback is mandatory and takes time to post, quality of tracks is often below average
2. wl.net: no feedback, but tracks are not unlocked, good audio quality so far.


You don't need to have purchased SSL to access whitelabel.net?


No, you need INTERNET EXPLORER 7 or MOZILLA.....

LOL, You probably got the same page I did!
nik39 9:46 PM - 17 January, 2007
Quote:

No, you need INTERNET EXPLORER 7 or MOZILLA.....

LOL, You probably got the same page I did!

Johhny... there is *to emphasize* and to emphasize.. it would make reading easier, really, insted of USING UPPERCASE every SECOND WORD. Thanks.

But, yeah, as Johnny said, you dont need SSL to axs wl.net
djaction 9:48 PM - 17 January, 2007
So any chump DJ can use wl.net just like Digiwaxx? (well with references)
djaction 9:48 PM - 17 January, 2007
wl.net would be that much cooler if it was for SERATO users only.
DJJOHNNYM 9:49 PM - 17 January, 2007
Quote:
Quote:

No, you need INTERNET EXPLORER 7 or MOZILLA.....

LOL, You probably got the same page I did!

Johhny... there is *to emphasize* and to emphasize.. it would make reading easier, really, insted of USING UPPERCASE every SECOND WORD. Thanks.

But, yeah, as Johnny said, you dont need SSL to axs wl.net


Man Listen, that is my STYLE of typing. Everybody here knows that's what I do...I don't like to take the time to put brackets between everything I type, and this forum doesn't have shortcuts....

Actually, y'all are lucky I'm taking the time to type in both lower and uppercase letters...On my other forums, I type ALL caps, ALL the time.... ;-).
nik39 9:52 PM - 17 January, 2007
Quote:
wl.net would be that much cooler if it was for SERATO users only.

You are starting to contradict yourself. ;)

However... me too: It is sort of exclusive. 320kbps playback is only possible for SSL users.
nik39 9:53 PM - 17 January, 2007
Quote:
Man Listen, that is my STYLE of typing. Everybody here knows that's what I do...I don't like to take the time to put brackets between everything I type, and this forum doesn't have shortcuts....

Its really harder to read. Of course I cant force you, I can just kindly ask you.
Flipsta 9:53 PM - 17 January, 2007
Quote:
Yeah, I've never been to Diggiwaxx...I wouldn't know.


oh ok, I thought most frequent board visitors knew the DL on Diggiwaxx by now. Its free but you have to "prove" you are legit, whatever that means. ;)
djaction 9:54 PM - 17 January, 2007
Ok damn I'm one confused mofo. So I was right? Wl.net is only for Serato users and not free (cost $500-600)? woohoo!

i.e. nobody is gonna go out and playback 96kpbs in public.
DJJOHNNYM 9:55 PM - 17 January, 2007
Quote:
wl.net would be that much cooler if it was for SERATO users only.


That would be cool, but there would be no way for them to insure that you won't share files (that would be played in performance), with others that didn't have Serato.

Think of their pitch to the record companies...

Serato to Record Co.:

Serato: Hi Mr. Record Co, we'd like to get promo songs from you and give them to our user's of Serato.

Mr. RecCo: Well Mr. Serato, how do you plan on preventing us from losing money by your users NOT distributing the files on P2P networks?

Serato: We will encode the files, so ONLY our DJ's that use Serato can TRULY use them. Anybody else will get a basically non-performance ready file. They won't be interested in that.

Mr. RecCo: Hmmm...so you've got a way to protect our investment! It's a go!
Flipsta 9:57 PM - 17 January, 2007
Quote:
Ok damn I'm one confused mofo. So I was right? Wl.net is only for Serato users and not free (cost $500-600)? woohoo!

i.e. nobody is gonna go out and playback 96kpbs in public.


Wl.net IS free. However, tHe high quality files only play in Serato, effectively making it a 500-600 contribution due to buying the hardware.
DJJOHNNYM 9:58 PM - 17 January, 2007
Quote:
Quote:
Man Listen, that is my STYLE of typing. Everybody here knows that's what I do...I don't like to take the time to put brackets between everything I type, and this forum doesn't have shortcuts....

Its really harder to read. Of course I cant force you, I can just kindly ask you.


Well, I guess I can appreciate you asking me vs. telling me, but I honestly don't think I use it that much...

You might need a bigger monitor...lol.

And again, that's my style...But thanks.
djaction 9:59 PM - 17 January, 2007
Yo i've always wondered that about this board.. how DO you DO BOLD on here? on other places its for bold

oh shit it worked.. now i wont get arrested. nicee
DJJOHNNYM 10:03 PM - 17 January, 2007
Quote:
Ok damn I'm one confused mofo. So I was right? Wl.net is only for Serato users and not free (cost $500-600)? woohoo!

i.e. nobody is gonna go out and playback 96kpbs in public.


See the thing is that you pay AT LEAST 500.00 bucks for Serato.

That's not including the Whitelabel.net.

Now, all of a sudden, Whitelabel.net exists, and Serato users can get the OPTION to play the files in Hi-Quality, but only thru the Serato interface.

Non-Serato users can download songs, but can only play them at 32Kpbs.

The confusing part is that even if you're a Serato user, if you take the file and try and play it thru something OTHER THAN Serato, you too will be listening at 32Kpbs.
a-swift 10:10 PM - 17 January, 2007
Quote:
Quote:

I read the terms and conditions, start to finish. Quite a few interesting things in there, especially when it comes to what you are agreeing to let Serato do with your personal information.


Really? Like what?


I was thinking more like that they are allowed to share your personal information to record companies, etc. I'm surprised no one else is concerned about that.
Matt G 12:48 AM - 18 January, 2007
Quote:
Ok damn I'm one confused mofo. So I was right? Wl.net is only for Serato users and not free (cost $500-600)? woohoo!


You don't have to personally own SSL to use Whitelabel.net. For instance you might play at clubs that have SSL installed, in which case it still makes sense to get Whitelabel.net tracks and take them to the club with all your other music on your laptop or external drive.

So someone could have a laptop with SSL installed (it's a free download), all their music plus Whitelabel.net tracks, all for free, and play that music out at clubs that have SSL. There's no clause that says you have to own your own SSL interface :)
Matt G 12:53 AM - 18 January, 2007
Quote:
I was thinking more like that they are allowed to share your personal information to record companies, etc. I'm surprised no one else is concerned about that.


There'll be a DJ profile form available on Whitelabel.net soon which will allow you to provide information about yourselves to the labels. They'll need that information to know who to put on their DJ lists (ie who to deliver their releases to).

The form won't be compulsory in any way, but the less information on it, the less labels will know about you (ie what clubs you play at, what genres, radio stations you have shows on, etc) to decide whether to deliver releases to you.

So the sharing of information with the labels is more of a matter between you (the DJs) and the labels, rather than between Serato and the labels.
vio0633 5:01 AM - 18 January, 2007
Just curious if you have a time frame when the WL site is coming out of beta and going full on for downloads.
J_Static 5:04 AM - 18 January, 2007
The low on Digiwaxx is: YES they will check on your DJ'ing being a LEGIT thang..... I got a phone call 5 minutes after entering my info into their website, just asked a few questions, asked if I had connections to Bay Area records labels and where I DJ'ed and that was it.....

Digi is free, yeah you gotta submit your opinion about the track, but it only takes a minute and sometimes the file unlocks other bonus material. Digi's been cool to me, plus they've had some exclusive Jay-Z freestyle's that where INSANE....

Whitelabel is GREAT, thanks Serato FAMILY
Matt G 6:26 AM - 18 January, 2007
Quote:
Just curious if you have a time frame when the WL site is coming out of beta and going full on for downloads.


I'm not sure exactly when we'll call it "released" or "finished" as it's more of an organic process. Although we will drop the "beta" monicker at some not too distant point. We have a stack of new releases backed up, ready to go live shortly, and over the next few months the rate of new releases will be steadily increasing as we get more labels onboard.
dj garcia 8:29 AM - 18 January, 2007
i don't think whitelabel is gonna make it since we all need to edit all of our music..
dj KarrsiN 8:30 AM - 18 January, 2007
Quote:
i don't think whitelabel is gonna make it since we all need to edit all of our music..


What do you mean?
dj KarrsiN 8:31 AM - 18 January, 2007
I would rather use whitelabel if they had music before everyone one else. Hopefully this shall be true some day :)
dj garcia 8:36 AM - 18 January, 2007
i mean we can't edit the songs due to the low quality..
dj KarrsiN 8:36 AM - 18 January, 2007
Quote:
i mean we can't edit the songs due to the low quality..


Okay I got you.
dj garcia 8:41 AM - 18 January, 2007
aight them, whitelabel is good idea but not for us serato users we need to to do our own remixes , and intros .. u know what i mean....when there is other pool to offer mp3 songgs that we can edit ,... soorrrry im drunk noww.
dj KarrsiN 8:45 AM - 18 January, 2007
I feel ya, but at least serato is offering this free service to serato users which is cool of them. Plus, I really don't edit all my tracks, only a selected few.
dj garcia 8:52 AM - 18 January, 2007
cool with that karrsin if you know how to scratch and cut all that shit im learning how to, it will be coo,l love the idea, im down with it , but i stilll need my inro i guess is personal ..
Daim 11:58 AM - 18 January, 2007
what did u do before u had serato?
have u been editing all ur vinyls with a knife and a lighter?

i never felt the need to edit any track.. but i dont spin hiphop so..
DJJOHNNYM 12:56 PM - 18 January, 2007
I am so mad you said "with a knife and a lighter".....
Thundercat 1:01 PM - 18 January, 2007
Quote:
i don't think whitelabel is gonna make it since we all need to edit all of our music..


LOL! Some people just don't get it. HAhahaha

it's to hard to mix songs the without extended intros! Waaaaaa..
sixxx 4:50 PM - 18 January, 2007
Quote:
what did u do before u had serato?
have u been editing all ur vinyls with a knife and a lighter?

i never felt the need to edit any track.. but i dont spin hiphop so..


hahahaha
sixxx 4:50 PM - 18 January, 2007
Quote:
Quote:
i don't think whitelabel is gonna make it since we all need to edit all of our music..


LOL! Some people just don't get it. HAhahaha

it's to hard to mix songs the without extended intros! Waaaaaa..



Hahahaha. So true. People and wanting to edit shit right away.
djaction 4:55 PM - 18 January, 2007
Quote:
Quote:
i don't think whitelabel is gonna make it since we all need to edit all of our music..


LOL! Some people just don't get it. HAhahaha

it's to hard to mix songs the without extended intros! Waaaaaa..


A waaaamburger and french cries to all the dj's that need extended intro's. =)
sixxx 4:57 PM - 18 January, 2007
Waaamburger and french cries? hahahaha You made me spill my drink. :P
dj disturbed 5:28 PM - 18 January, 2007
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
i don't think whitelabel is gonna make it since we all need to edit all of our music..


LOL! Some people just don't get it. HAhahaha

it's to hard to mix songs the without extended intros! Waaaaaa..



Hahahaha. So true. People and wanting to edit shit right away.


thats whythey have instramentals... so you can make you own inrto LIVE while you are mixing...i mean realy.. show a little DJ skill
sixxx 5:45 PM - 18 January, 2007
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
i don't think whitelabel is gonna make it since we all need to edit all of our music..


LOL! Some people just don't get it. HAhahaha

it's to hard to mix songs the without extended intros! Waaaaaa..



Hahahaha. So true. People and wanting to edit shit right away.


thats whythey have instramentals... so you can make you own inrto LIVE while you are mixing...i mean realy.. show a little DJ skill


"I mean really... show a little DJ skill"

No shit! +100000
scotty B 6:05 PM - 18 January, 2007
^^^^ I think Inst are getting harder to find nowdays too!
CMS 6:16 PM - 18 January, 2007
damn, most of the songs I play are right off the album. There's a way to have intros if you must have them, it's called looping. Personally I thinnk it's more of a challenge to mix up the regular stuff people hear on the radio.
dj disturbed 6:17 PM - 18 January, 2007
Quote:
^^^^ I think Inst are getting harder to find nowdays too!


not if you use Whitelable.net or other record pools.... there are plenty of new songs with instramental vers. out there you just have to "DIG" wich is what all DJ should do.. either on the internet or the old school way and never drive past somewhere that has records for sale without stopping to look (even garage sales)
scotty B 6:25 PM - 18 January, 2007
Don't get me wrong, I know they are out there. I still purchase mostly vinyl. I was at Good will on sat! whitelabel has them, wich is dope.... but I think it is getting more limited
skinnyguy 7:06 PM - 18 January, 2007
i'm still hunting for an instrumental version for darude's "sandstorm"

it would be great for karaoke too

=)
dj disturbed 7:20 PM - 18 January, 2007
Quote:
i'm still hunting for an instrumental version for darude's "sandstorm"

it would be great for karaoke too

=)


LMFAO
nik39 7:37 PM - 18 January, 2007
Editing = remixing for example. You cant do this except if you do it live.
dj disturbed 7:42 PM - 18 January, 2007
OR... you can play the whitelable track in SSL and record you playing that track.... then use it for remixing....
Julls 7:59 PM - 18 January, 2007
So what you guys are trying to say is....wah wah wah wah I can't edit wah wah wah wah...right?
DJJOHNNYM 8:01 PM - 18 January, 2007
LOL!
dj disturbed 8:01 PM - 18 January, 2007
yup... thats what they are saying
DJJOHNNYM 8:03 PM - 18 January, 2007
I've never heard of Homemade editing of the mp3 to extend the into for DJ friendlyness. You learn something new erryday.
DJJOHNNYM 8:03 PM - 18 January, 2007
*the intro
sixxx 9:05 PM - 18 January, 2007
My mommy and my daddy told me I can't be a DJ if I don't have extended intros and outros. Waaaaaah!! *gives the child some milk*
djaction 9:11 PM - 18 January, 2007
No worries. The waaaambulance is en route.
Julls 9:12 PM - 18 January, 2007
Quote:
The waaaambulance is en route.


Hahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!
sweetL 11:37 PM - 18 January, 2007
do you really NEED to extend the intro of an mp3 ever again, you have looping features!?!??!
dj KarrsiN 11:38 PM - 18 January, 2007
Quote:
do you really NEED to extend the intro of an mp3 ever again, you have looping features!?!??!


Exactly!! learn to use this function and you may never need an extended intro again..
J_Static 4:59 AM - 19 January, 2007
Love the WAAAAAAA routines Action, I second you and Sixxx
society 3:13 PM - 19 January, 2007
Well, I couldn't give a shit about extended intros, but remixing tracks at home is fun. It's a world-famous art that was started by DJs.

I hope you guys aren't ripping on remixing in general...
Daim 3:44 PM - 19 January, 2007
there's a difference between the art of remixing and simply extending intros because u can't mix
society 4:11 PM - 19 January, 2007
Yeah, I know, but I thought this whole tangent started because someone said editing whitelabel files is impossible or at least very difficult. Since people were saying,

Quote:
So what you guys are trying to say is....wah wah wah wah I can't edit wah wah wah wah...right?


and

Quote:
yup... thats what they are saying


and then nik39 pointed out

Quote:
Editing = remixing for example. You cant do this except if you do it live.


I just felt like chiming in and making it clear that not all editing is for cry babies or whatever. Although it's true most of the complaints have been about people crying for extended intros, I just wanted to stand up for other forms of editing.

Of course it doesn't really matter anyways because if we really want to remix, re-recording the whitelable tracks isn't impossible.
shiestO! 4:46 PM - 19 January, 2007
should combine forces with beatport.
shiestO! 4:48 PM - 19 January, 2007
actually... beatport you have to pay song for song 320's... this is free right? nm. im stupid.
AKIEM 11:35 PM - 19 January, 2007
before SSL I wished I had the cash to press shit, and sometimes I would use the DJ edited joints (most of them sucked tho)

now that Im digital, I like being able to extend intros or breaks, sometimes differently then you could do with just a loop function. I like to change the order of verses so the best shit comes first.

do I have the ability to, cue an off beat start? yes
do I have the ability to, drop in the middle of a cut? yes
do I have the ability to, manually extend the intro? yes

even without a cue point

I jus dont think those abilities speak to the artistry of what Im doing as a DJ (especially when Im playing commercial shit)

I didnt know that Im supposed to be meeting some kind off challenge, I thought I was just supposed to rock the set, by whatever means. only geeks and djs (like theres a dif) are up in my laptop looking my shit, everyone else is on the floor

AND if I do need to be meeting some challenge to keep my DJ manhood in tact: editing records can easily be seen as an art form, from simple arrangement to full remixes.

with digital there are a whole range new skills that DJs can use to express themselves or need to compete. everything from computer maintenance to remixing and editing, all types of shit.

maybe my thought on this subject is related to the fact the I DJ for rap groups too. I mean I am playing complete records composed by me. so editing an intro is just whatever b, I make whole records

If anyone believes that editing a track to play in the club is "lazy" or "cheating" should not use the REL mode, should not use cue points, should not tap out tempos, or make notes on tracks, or use mp3, only vinyl rips, hell shut your lappy off and go make a mixtape with Premo. the same sentiment is at work here.


Back in the day I used to believe that tempo clocking records and organizing shit into sets was cheating. I was thoroughly embarrassed to be seen playing records that were placed in the crates next to each other less some one think that I planned to play them shits together at home.

Back in the day I laughed at adat tapes and vowed to record all my shit to analog in a big ass studio.

I would be dead right now if I didnt get that crap out of my head. Yes, I often prefer the sound of analog situations, and I am still embarrassed to have sharpied tempos on my vinyl. But I was also board to death at one point, but this digital shit opened lots of new frontiers for me to explore.

also I realized that no one gives a fuck about how you do it, as long as you entertain them. I dont care what any hater DJ standing on the wall trying to formulate some pure philosophy against my set has to say. Or any computer illiterate so called "vinyl purist" tries to say on the mic or on a mixtape to get the crowd to recognize. I still get the chicks at the end of the night son.

AND as DJs, at least us seasoned ones know for a goddamned fact that we will absolutely get the party cracking more than any fucking mixtape out there. This is because the science of what we do as DJs is about on the spot, the performance, the connection with the people. It has nothing to do with how you set up or what equipment you use. How you set up is only the method, the vehicle used. And that would include looping up an edit.





anyway.
you cant edit white labels. if you have to you can send it through analog and re encode it, as nasty as that sounds, (havnt tried it yet) thats probably not as bad as using lower bitrate in the first place. I dont know yet.

thing is, doing that effectively "unlocks" the file. the whole point of the white label is that it is locked. actually its an ingenious solution for digital promos. makes the labels feel better about sending them out since you cant pop it into the ipod or trade it. I dont think they would have such a problem with a white label editor like this: www.scratchlive.net

think about it, you go rip all your vinyl or cds in the white label editor and it will still be "locked" it wont be free to trade with civilians and whatnot.

I understand that such a program would aid a hacker in being able to unlock the whitelabels.

But, who would really be trying to do that? I really dont see why anyone would bother. Wow, if you hack it, you get your hands on a 320 file two weeks before anyone else, wooooo. uh you could get a 128 version anyway, g. I really dont see the incentive to hack them for civilian use. I think there is a pretty big incentive to hack them for editing, DJ reasons. If we had an editor that incentive would go away.

here is a pitch for the RIAA guys:

Even though most things worth hacking eventually do get hacked (right?), lets assume that a whitelabel editor ensures that it happens (I dont understand the technical reasons, but) and lets assume that each and every whitelabel file will be immediately hacked and sent out to wherever pirates like to download them. (personally I dont see the incentive for these people to do it but for the sake of argument lets assume it will happen)

And at the same time thousands of SSL users will be actively locking up thousands of files from cd, vinyl and mp3, and even locking up illegally traded files.

It looks to me like this would be a net gain for RIAA. Have you ever heard of users actively locking files? usually its the other way around right?

how many illegal files originated as acc files? does anyone really encode to acc?
millions of files would be encoded into WL
dj disturbed 12:12 AM - 20 January, 2007
^^ heh you lost me after the first 30 mins of reading that post
sixxx 2:11 AM - 20 January, 2007
Yeah AKIEM... I stopped reading too.

But here's a response to what I read... the first 10 lines I believe. If you're changing the order of the verses, etc... then you're not just doing quick editing... you're actually pretty much remixing. lol

I can see why it's useful to be able to edit something. Seriously, I can... but that's not to say it can't be done with whitelabel tracks either. It's just more difficult or time consuming.

If you're editing something because you want it to be different, exclusive, or whatever... that's dope! But, you're editing something just cause you can't mix and you need an intro.. then you suck. Go back to the practice room.
society 7:23 PM - 20 January, 2007
Quote:
before SSL I wished I had the cash to press shit, and sometimes I would use the DJ edited joints (most of them sucked tho)

now that Im digital, I like being able to extend intros or breaks, sometimes differently then you could do with just a loop function. I like to change the order of verses so the best shit comes first.

do I have the ability to, cue an off beat start? yes
do I have the ability to, drop in the middle of a cut? yes
do I have the ability to, manually extend the intro? yes

even without a cue point

I jus dont think those abilities speak to the artistry of what Im doing as a DJ (especially when Im playing commercial shit)

I didnt know that Im supposed to be meeting some kind off challenge, I thought I was just supposed to rock the set, by whatever means. only geeks and djs (like theres a dif) are up in my laptop looking my shit, everyone else is on the floor

AND if I do need to be meeting some challenge to keep my DJ manhood in tact: editing records can easily be seen as an art form, from simple arrangement to full remixes.

with digital there are a whole range new skills that DJs can use to express themselves or need to compete. everything from computer maintenance to remixing and editing, all types of shit.

maybe my thought on this subject is related to the fact the I DJ for rap groups too. I mean I am playing complete records composed by me. so editing an intro is just whatever b, I make whole records

If anyone believes that editing a track to play in the club is "lazy" or "cheating" should not use the REL mode, should not use cue points, should not tap out tempos, or make notes on tracks, or use mp3, only vinyl rips, hell shut your lappy off and go make a mixtape with Premo. the same sentiment is at work here.


Back in the day I used to believe that tempo clocking records and organizing shit into sets was cheating. I was thoroughly embarrassed to be seen playing records that were placed in the crates next to each other less some one think that I planned to play them shits together at home.

Back in the day I laughed at adat tapes and vowed to record all my shit to analog in a big ass studio.

I would be dead right now if I didnt get that crap out of my head. Yes, I often prefer the sound of analog situations, and I am still embarrassed to have sharpied tempos on my vinyl. But I was also board to death at one point, but this digital shit opened lots of new frontiers for me to explore.

also I realized that no one gives a fuck about how you do it, as long as you entertain them. I dont care what any hater DJ standing on the wall trying to formulate some pure philosophy against my set has to say. Or any computer illiterate so called "vinyl purist" tries to say on the mic or on a mixtape to get the crowd to recognize. I still get the chicks at the end of the night son.

AND as DJs, at least us seasoned ones know for a goddamned fact that we will absolutely get the party cracking more than any fucking mixtape out there. This is because the science of what we do as DJs is about on the spot, the performance, the connection with the people. It has nothing to do with how you set up or what equipment you use. How you set up is only the method, the vehicle used. And that would include looping up an edit.





anyway.
you cant edit white labels. if you have to you can send it through analog and re encode it, as nasty as that sounds, (havnt tried it yet) thats probably not as bad as using lower bitrate in the first place. I dont know yet.

thing is, doing that effectively "unlocks" the file. the whole point of the white label is that it is locked. actually its an ingenious solution for digital promos. makes the labels feel better about sending them out since you cant pop it into the ipod or trade it. I dont think they would have such a problem with a white label editor like this: www.scratchlive.net

think about it, you go rip all your vinyl or cds in the white label editor and it will still be "locked" it wont be free to trade with civilians and whatnot.

I understand that such a program would aid a hacker in being able to unlock the whitelabels.

But, who would really be trying to do that? I really dont see why anyone would bother. Wow, if you hack it, you get your hands on a 320 file two weeks before anyone else, wooooo. uh you could get a 128 version anyway, g. I really dont see the incentive to hack them for civilian use. I think there is a pretty big incentive to hack them for editing, DJ reasons. If we had an editor that incentive would go away.

here is a pitch for the RIAA guys:

Even though most things worth hacking eventually do get hacked (right?), lets assume that a whitelabel editor ensures that it happens (I dont understand the technical reasons, but) and lets assume that each and every whitelabel file will be immediately hacked and sent out to wherever pirates like to download them. (personally I dont see the incentive for these people to do it but for the sake of argument lets assume it will happen)

And at the same time thousands of SSL users will be actively locking up thousands of files from cd, vinyl and mp3, and even locking up illegally traded files.

It looks to me like this would be a net gain for RIAA. Have you ever heard of users actively locking files? usually its the other way around right?

how many illegal files originated as acc files? does anyone really encode to acc?
millions of files would be encoded into WL


Co-sign the whole thing!! :D
AKIEM 10:09 PM - 21 January, 2007
I was really just typing for my own fingers....

(are you okay society?)

but for real:
half the features in SSL you could tell someone to go back to the lab and practice for wanting. not just editing

I do everything from complete remixes to looping intros

I have the skill to start an off beat record from before the song comes in, trust I got records I can cue from the cueburn if they dont start on the one.

but hardly half the DJs on this board would care about that, let alone drunk mfs on the floor.

and I will take them records and change the intro for the ease of cueing [not because I lack skill]

who cares

do I really want to learn and practice each offbeat intro that I find on WL? no, I got better things to do



Im just going to re encode it or get it someplace else anyway. keeping WL locked really does nothing in the end (if you ask me)
nik39 10:17 PM - 21 January, 2007
Quote:
Im just going to re encode it or get it someplace else anyway. keeping WL locked really does nothing in the end (if you ask me)

I agree fully. It just causes unnecessary trouble for the users. We all know, if we really wanted to spread those files, we could.
sixxx 2:00 AM - 22 January, 2007
Quote:
Quote:
Im just going to re encode it or get it someplace else anyway. keeping WL locked really does nothing in the end (if you ask me)

I agree fully. It just causes unnecessary trouble for the users. We all know, if we really wanted to spread those files, we could.


You mean the way you spread herpes around? :P


Seriously though, like I've been saying, it's just a hassle to have them locked but nothing that can't be bypassed much like file protected in iTunes.
nik39 2:16 AM - 22 January, 2007
sixxx, did you ever think what will happen when you choose to use wl.net files and rely on them?

One day you decide to dump all Serato products and spin with a different DVS solution. All your wl.net files are useless. The time and effort you put into maintaining, sorting your library is worthless now.
Thundercat 2:35 AM - 22 January, 2007
This is why, along with the wl files, I still keep / burn copies of the same tracks from other music pools I am in. The wl tracks sound great in SSL but ya never know when you may have to go without.
nik39 2:39 AM - 22 January, 2007
TC, but whats the sense of wl.net then? If I need to keep another copy... wouldnt it be more economic to go with the tracks from the other pools which do not restrict the usage?
Thundercat 2:56 AM - 22 January, 2007
If I could get the 320's from other digital pools, yes wl.net would be redundant. However it's usually 192 (or less) from the other chop shops. The ones I rip myself from a hard copy I do at 320 and don't bother with wl.net.
DJJOHNNYM 3:25 AM - 22 January, 2007
Quote:
sixxx, did you ever think what will happen when you choose to use wl.net files and rely on them?

One day you decide to dump all Serato products and spin with a different DVS solution. All your wl.net files are useless. The time and effort you put into maintaining, sorting your library is worthless now.


OH SHIT! This is a first for ME to see....Nik39, you actually aren't endorsing wl.tracks and they're affiliated with Serato? Somebody shoot me now....before I capitalize everything sporadically in the next thread...

But seriously, we're on the same page, and I haven't even GOT Serato yet. As a matter of fact, I'm still dilly-dallying on converting vinyl to mp3's. Still working on just the right config for the laptop, because once I decide on a road to go down, I'm not doing this again...(converting).

But yes, investing (time) in a song that may become obsolete in the future is a waste of time for me. No thank you. I can see all the time associated with maintaining 1 set of files for music, do you think I'm gonna double that with the history of digital music thus far? Hellz no...

But hey, Rane/Serato offer it FOR FREE, and there's no fucking with that...You can't complain about free shit...
nik39 3:29 AM - 22 January, 2007
Quote:
OH SHIT! This is a first for ME to see....Nik39, you actually aren't endorsing wl.tracks and they're affiliated with Serato? Somebody shoot me now....before I capitalize everything sporadically in the next thread...

Lol, if you think I am a Serato fanboy and I eat everything they do... you dont know me well. I have outlined these points before, ask TC... but, well, I dont make the decisions.

Quote:
But yes, investing (time) in a song that may become obsolete in the future is a waste of time for me. No thank you. I can see all the time associated with maintaining 1 set of files for music, do you think I'm gonna double that with the history of digital music thus far? Hellz no...

Exactly.

Quote:
But hey, Rane/Serato offer it FOR FREE, and there's no fucking with that...You can't complain about free shit...

Noone forces us, thats correct. But to me, its not free with possible doubled work I'll have. Now if they gave us the option to "unlock" those files after a certain time (free or for money...) automatically ... that would be awesome.
DJJOHNNYM 3:38 AM - 22 January, 2007
Quote:

Lol, if you think I am a Serato fanboy and I eat everything they do... you dont know me well. I have outlined these points before, ask TC... but, well, I dont make the decisions.


Well I'll be damned...I seriously thought otherwise the way you hawk these forums...lol. Aittee, so he does think independently of Rane/Serato team....interesting.

Quote:

Noone forces us, thats correct. But to me, its not free with possible doubled work I'll have. Now if they gave us the option to "unlock" those files after a certain time (free or for money...) automatically ... that would be awesome.


The ability to eventually unlock or convert would be da shitznit...but again, they're doing exactly what record companies want to do with promo copies....having the ability to restrict them to the DJ...(sort of). I actually admire the thought process.
nik39 3:46 AM - 22 January, 2007
Quote:
Well I'll be damned...I seriously thought otherwise the way you hawk these forums...lol. Aittee, so he does think independently of Rane/Serato team....interesting.

You'd be surprised. Ask your friend :)
Dan Gorman 5:06 AM - 22 January, 2007
Quote:
Quote:
i'm still hunting for an instrumental version for darude's "sandstorm"

it would be great for karaoke too

=)


LMFAO


LOL or castle's in the sky ? LMFAO.
Thundercat 5:24 AM - 22 January, 2007
Jaydee - Plastic Dreams would be sweet for Karaoke! Anyone got an instrumental of that?
Daim 12:17 PM - 22 January, 2007
with all ur "we want to edit" and "we can copy them anyway" trashtalk u are destroying the whitelabel ship before it even has seen any water..

labels reading ur leet comments will think twice about ever joining wl..
matt212 12:35 PM - 22 January, 2007
Quote:
Jaydee - Plastic Dreams would be sweet for Karaoke! Anyone got an instrumental of that?


Forget the instrumental, I need the acapella. haha
nik39 1:46 PM - 22 January, 2007
Quote:
with all ur "we want to edit" and "we can copy them anyway" trashtalk u are destroying the whitelabel ship before it even has seen any water..

labels reading ur leet comments will think twice about ever joining wl..

Then maybe it would be good to rethink the whole idea? I dont think there is anything wrong with giving constructive criticism. This is not plain trashing here.
DJJOHNNYM 1:53 PM - 22 January, 2007
Quote:
Quote:
with all ur "we want to edit" and "we can copy them anyway" trashtalk u are destroying the whitelabel ship before it even has seen any water..

labels reading ur leet comments will think twice about ever joining wl..

Then maybe it would be good to rethink the whole idea? I dont think there is anything wrong with giving constructive criticism. This is not plain trashing here.


Nah Nik,
It's a good plan to keep the promos exactly where they belong. And not every DJ is reverse code savvy. There's always gonna be someone hell bent on crackin' shit, so that day will come. Until then, getting free promos is a plus. And remember, the idea of the promo is to entice the listener to BUY the song, which, believe it or not, includes the DJ.
Daim 1:58 PM - 22 January, 2007
no label in the world will put all their tracks free to download for everyone in this quality at a public place >without< any copy protection.. this ain't utopia ;)
nik39 2:09 PM - 22 January, 2007
True true. But you know that we have FREE services like digiwaxx, which offer UNPROTECTED audio files FOR DJS ONLY directly FROM THE LABELS. So it IS POSSIBLE.

(Sorry to hijack your style JOHNNYM ;) )

Its not that I understand the labels concerns... locking wl.net files down will not stop p2p leaks. As said, those who really want to distribute those files will find a way pretty easily. Very easily. So in the end, you dont gain much... but you burden an unnecessary hassle to the DJs AND restrict their creativity in a way. No remixes possible.

I just want an unlock feature so I can use those tracks later with any other audio product.
Daim 2:21 PM - 22 January, 2007
no what i said is not possible.. digiwix ain't a public place for everyone like whitelabel.

digiwax' copy protection is to authorize the djs so only they have access to the downloads, i guess u have to sign in and so on..

my solution would be that only people who got a serato serial number can access the download area..
in this board for example u are able to save your serial number with the preferences.

but this would still make it easy to spread the files to p2p and i guess that's why it won't happen.





btw in german this system is called "besitzbasierte authentifizierung" .. u need to have a hardware to use sth.. that's the future as u can see nowadays with most new software which needs a hardware dongle in order to work. ssl is the hardware dongle for the "free" music..
society 2:30 PM - 22 January, 2007
The way I look at it is: Digiwax verifies that you're an actual DJ by asking you to provide names of venues, radio stations, etc; Whitelabel does the same with a different system. They assume that if you're spending hundreds of dollars on a DJing system, you're likely going to be performing those songs in public.

I assume the record labels consider the money lost through illegal distribution of the free files is worth it in what they gain back through exposure.
Daim 2:33 PM - 22 January, 2007
Quote:
Digiwax verifies that you're an actual DJ by asking you to provide names of venues, radio stations, etc; Whitelabel does the same with a different system.



exactly
Daim 2:38 PM - 22 January, 2007
and this system is even more efficient because it doesn't allow to share the music with unauthorized people
society 2:50 PM - 22 January, 2007
Quote:
and this system is even more efficient because it doesn't allow to share the music with unauthorized people


Well, it doesn't really restrict sharing, it just makes it so that if you REALLY want to share, you've got to put in that extra time and effort.
nik39 2:53 PM - 22 January, 2007
Quote:
Well, it doesn't really restrict sharing, it just makes it so that if you REALLY want to share, you've got to put in that extra time and effort.

So it doesnt really lock it down. Side effects are all those negative things about locked files which have been mentioned in this thread.
DJJOHNNYM 3:30 PM - 22 January, 2007
The system is working. The HI QUALITY files are restricted to Serato users by default. That was the purpose. All that whining about the files being locked is just that..whining. If you want to remix the song, buy it...simple. The labels didn't ask you to REMIX the song for them. They put it out the way they wanted it. Just because we have the ability to do something, doesn't mean we're entitled to do it. There is extra effort involved in doing a remix, and just extending the intro. So now, you've just got another step...Trust somebody right now is working on a crack...not only for these locked files, but for Serato "dongle" security also....It's only a matter of time.
nik39 4:26 PM - 22 January, 2007
Quote:
The system is working. The HI QUALITY files are restricted to Serato users by default. That was the purpose

It takes the IQ of a monkey to get around this protection.


Quote:
All that whining about the files being locked is just that..whining.

Just because you dont agree with the criticism, its pretty unnecessary to call this whining.


Quote:
If you want to remix the song, buy it...simple.

WHERE can you buy instrumentals and acapellas? Show me.
WHERE can you buy tracks which havent been released on CD/iTunes yet?


Quote:
Trust somebody right now is working on a crack...not only for these locked files, but for Serato "dongle" security also....It's only a matter of time.

Then why not leaving the protection out?
nik39 4:33 PM - 22 January, 2007
Plus you totally ignored that once you move to a different software, your library which may be swamped with wl.net files is worthless. Have fun hunting those tracks again.
Daim 4:43 PM - 22 January, 2007
well we dont get the music to collect it.. we get it to promote it
Daim 4:51 PM - 22 January, 2007
but this discussion is going to be endless cause it's pretty philosophical.. so i'm out :)
nik39 4:54 PM - 22 January, 2007
So whats up with the vinyl promo releases? I still can play those vinyls which are ten years old, on a stanton turntable, on a vestax turntable, not only on a technics turntable.
Daim 5:52 PM - 22 January, 2007
yes but the labels wouldn't care if you were not able anymore :p

and when getting sent vinyl promos you have usually more proven a status in djing as when u only own ssl.. so it's maybe a different kind of promo (+ the labels actually spent money on the vinyl)

well like i said.. the discussion can be endless.. there's always different viewpoints to every fact
sixxx 8:57 PM - 22 January, 2007
Quote:
sixxx, did you ever think what will happen when you choose to use wl.net files and rely on them?

One day you decide to dump all Serato products and spin with a different DVS solution. All your wl.net files are useless. The time and effort you put into maintaining, sorting your library is worthless now.


Oh, trust me. I don't have a SINGLE whitelabel song for this reason. I downloaded a few to check them. That's about it. I can find everything that's on there somewhere else.
sixxx 9:00 PM - 22 January, 2007
Quote:
but this discussion is going to be endless cause it's pretty philosophical.. so i'm out :)


If you're out, why did you post again? ha!
AKIEM 9:48 PM - 22 January, 2007
some ranting:

"free" is not what I would call them, like upgrades, part of the product purchased. no one is whining or complaining, this is constructive criticism in the effort to improve the product. Im sure the feedback is highly valued.

reliance on WL would mean migrating from SSL will be a bitch, like migrating from vinyl. that is until someone comes with a hack which I think would be guaranteed by the time there is a large migration. I actually dont have a problem with Serato not facilitating easier migration, I mean I wouldnt ether. but...

personally Im not going to bother keeping doubles, I will just dub, unlock or p2p [(legally) I think?] the slim amount of these records that might even have a chance of making it into my "classics" crates.

that is if I even use the WL in the first place, Im only going there if the quality of individual tracks is unacceptable wherever else I get them.

the "timed lock" sounds like a good solution, a little murky about some things... I dont know. I heard of a time locked mp3 back in the 90s but never seen it manifest. I think a mirrored sight with older "unlocked" joints would be almost as good, at least in the r&d department. but I dont see that happening ether, I mean Serato has no reason to do it, no real incentive, kinda like the "time locked" I think. I mean the time locked mp3 mentioned self destructed the mp3 after a promo period, and so on.

actually I would be satisfied if "looping" and "cues" were a hell of allot more sophisticated like www.scratchlive.net
at least I would be happier


but what if we had a full fledged editor like this:
www.scratchlive.net

imagine that you can do whatever editing you need to for a WL, blam
or you rip your stacks of vinyls and cds right into the WL format, blamo (riaa would love that right!!!)
or maybe they would be nice (open to civilians) and let us export to mp3, blizamo (product for non-ssl-users)
or only exports time stamped WL after the promo period, cablizamo!!!
okay, pimp it out with a nice chunky dongle berry on the side and you are managing your shit offline, cablizamolini g!!!!


actually, I think they are trying to make SSL more able to accomplish most of these tasks by some means in the future. I just think that a second editing app could be huge, even for non-SSL personnel. dont sleep on it g.

and to the riaa characters- you fools need to come the fuck out of the 90s, thats the last millennium fella. you were scared of cassette tapes but they made you millions after you realised that a DUB is not equal to a copy. dude that era is over, one D/A/D aint protecting shit especially when you are trying to keep it from the millions of cheap ipod headphone listeners. they could never in a million years tell the difference. none of them, not one of them will ever feel the slight disincentive to p2p.

you know how many times Ive had to sit in a car with the bass distorting with lo grade mp3s blaring? or get an ipod shoved in my ear "listen to this, it rocks!" no it doesnt g, it sounds like it was recorded by Edison. or some crapy high school performance blaring obviously p2peed shit over a 40 year old pa system. Im the only one sitting there looking like they brought out the chalk board to raw finger nail scratch.

they just dont give a fuck, trust me. I wouldnt be surprised if some knucklehead somewhere would be happy with the 32k even.

the only people the lock is ever, ever, ever, going to bother is the SSL user who has to fiddle with it. I can guarantee that not one single person who gets their hands on a WL dub could ever tell the difference, or would ever even care.



so what Im saying is give us more incentive for using the WL format.
I would gladly convert all my shit to WL, lock it all up if I could get a benefit, otherwise Im going to be unlocking it for my own needs.

all my joints are "legal" and will stay that way, by the way (I think).




okay, thats my ranting for today, my girl has put the law on me, one rant a day or else...
dave 9:53 PM - 22 January, 2007
Thanks for all the feedback, we are listening and will take your feedback with us to the record labels we are dealing with.

There are lots of interesting ideas here, keep them coming.
nik39 10:07 PM - 22 January, 2007
Quote:
or only exports time stamped WL after the promo period, cablizamo!!!

Good idea.

Quote:
the only people the lock is ever, ever, ever, going to bother is the SSL user who has to fiddle with it.

Exactly.

Another - to keep those files of p2p - :
Use mp3 format with watermarking technology. You can convert these watermarked files to different formats and the watermark will still keep intact.
society 10:09 PM - 22 January, 2007
Quote:
personally Im not going to bother keeping doubles, I will just dub, unlock or p2p [(legally) I think?] the slim amount of these records that might even have a chance of making it into my "classics" crates.


This is a good point. It's no offense to Serato or the record labels to point out that only a slim percentage of the releases will end up becoming classics--many probably won't make it past the 6 month mark. Which is why this whole idea of the longevity of these "locked" files is somewhat moot; ok, sure, maybe in 10 years time you won't be using SSL and all these files will become obsolete, but how many of them will you still be droppin on the regular? We're DJs--it shouldn't be too hard for us to tell which tracks we'll need far into the future. So if you come across a whitelabel classic...well...you know what to do...
dave 10:11 PM - 22 January, 2007
Watermarking mp3s wouldn't keep files off p2p, it just allows tracking of the files to find the source of the leak.
dave 10:14 PM - 22 January, 2007
You're on the money society. What % of your promo 12s are obsolete now? I'd say more that half of mine were crap.

That said, I hear what you're all saying. When there is a classic track on WL.net, you'd rather have an unlocked version.
dj disturbed 10:17 PM - 22 January, 2007
In that case.. I would say... JUST RECORD IT AS YOU PLAY IT... then you can put it in any format you want from that point!!!!
dj disturbed 10:17 PM - 22 January, 2007
^^^and you already have the computer.. and there are PLENTY of free apps you can use to record with.. and most computer have a line in on them
dave 10:25 PM - 22 January, 2007
dj disturbed

Quote:
In that case.. I would say... JUST RECORD IT AS YOU PLAY IT... then you can put it in any format you want from that point!!!!

That is a clear violation of 3.2 (b) in the user agreement:

Quote:
3.2 Undertakings: The User undertakes:

(a) only to use Downloads for Promotional Purposes;

(b) not to copy, sell, rent, reproduce, broadcast, distribute, adapt, reverse engineer, reverse assemble or reverse compile any Download or any part of it, or in particular to do anything to circumvent the copy protection in any Download and the software that plays it, or to permit any other person to do any such thing.
nik39 10:30 PM - 22 January, 2007
Quote:
Watermarking mp3s wouldn't keep files off p2p, it just allows tracking of the files to find the source of the leak.

You're correct. It would keep *myself* from putting these files on p2p networks assumed I have any intention to put them on p2p netwroks ;) I wouldnt dare.
To be picky...: Technically wl.net files cant be kept off p2p networks either.

Quote:
That said, I hear what you're all saying. When there is a classic track on WL.net, you'd rather have an unlocked version.

I dont mind paying for it, seriously. If it means less work for me, I'm fine with it.
scotty B 10:34 PM - 22 January, 2007
Man... I don't know what all this is about. So what the songs are in a certain format.... This is a huge added bonus for SSL. It was never a feature or something Guaranteed with the purchase of the program. I am greatful the SSL team even gave us this site. I will just get what tracks I can off WL, and be as creative as possible with what I have. Thank you Serato team for all the hard work!
nik39 10:37 PM - 22 January, 2007
scotty, I dont think those who are critizing arent thankful or something. We're just discussing if there are any ways to improve the current offer.
dave 10:38 PM - 22 January, 2007
Thanks for the kind words scotty B.

I'm enjoying your thanks and the constructive criticism.
scotty B 10:38 PM - 22 January, 2007
Ahhh Maybe I read it wrong. No disrespect intended.
society 11:01 PM - 22 January, 2007
Yeah, I'm very thankful too! :D I just think it's important to bring all the variables to the table to help Serato work out as many bugs/potential issues as early in the game as possible.
AKIEM 11:32 PM - 22 January, 2007
Quote:
dj disturbed

Quote:
In that case.. I would say... JUST RECORD IT AS YOU PLAY IT... then you can put it in any format you want from that point!!!!

That is a clear violation of 3.2 (b) in the user agreement:

Quote:
3.2 Undertakings: The User undertakes:

(a) only to use Downloads for Promotional Purposes;

(b) not to copy, sell, rent, reproduce, broadcast, distribute, adapt, reverse engineer, reverse assemble or reverse compile any Download or any part of it, or in particular to do anything to circumvent the copy protection in any Download and the software that plays it, or to permit any other person to do any such thing.




I forgot about how this was worded, I thought I would be safe by owning "using" other copies. guess not
AKIEM 11:35 PM - 22 January, 2007
+ yes, thanks for the white labels.
MusicMeister 12:44 AM - 23 January, 2007
I mentioned the heavy limitations earlier in the thread... you also can't back them up in any shape, fashion or form. Which means a single hard drive failure puts you trying to download all those tracks again.

But I agree with nik39.... The limitations put on the use of the whitelabel files is just not practical for those people who sometimes play out at places where they don't use Serato (gasp!). It's damned inconvenient to have to maintain unlocked files and non-unlocked files. Keep in mind that even editing the TRACK NAME or other portions of the ID3V2 tag in some software you loose the high quality portion of the track.

Even if I accept the buy in on limiting the playback to it having to come through a Serato approved hardware device (SL1/MP4/57SL) and Serato software some of us listen to the tracks in the car or on portable devices to become more familiar with them or to weed out the crap before a gig. Sure I can listen to 32kbps mono files in the car... but I don't even record my spoken word tracks (comedy) at that rate.

I like what Serato is offering but the price is just too high to pay... The minute I decide to go with a Mackie d.4 and mixvibes I'm screwed. If that hot joint I've been jamming for weeks is a WL track I've got to find it from someplace else and quickly.


On a side note... the only thing you can't unscramble is eggs... HBO learned it (Captain Midnight!), Showtime learned it, the MPAA learned it (DeCSS), and Microsoft has learned it (X-Box)....

If the rewards are great enough someone somewhere WILL violate the terms of use and make a tool to read the ID3V2 'hidden' information and create the MP3 frames. Even if you're using a 2048-bit public/private key pair to associate the files with Serato it can break one day.... just ask Microsoft about X-Box games and PKI...

And no, I'm not interested in breaking the encryption.....


On a side note... has the Serato team considered licensing the process to other manufacturers? Opening up the availability of the tracks to more than one solution could make the offering more appealing to the labels...

Disclaimer: I don't own Serato. I use Julls when we play gigs together. I do use a TCV solution... and I'm happy with it... And I've love to use WL.net with that solution... or other solutions that I might use from other manufacturers... and maybe even within Ableton (as I progress closer to the possibility of using it)... So before you go hatin'... I like Serato, but it didn't offer what I needed when I bought... when it catches up I'll consider it them...
nik39 1:13 AM - 23 January, 2007
Quote:
Even if you're using a 2048-bit public/private key pair to associate the files with Serato it can break one day

Esp. since you can access the software, and in the software there should be the keys. On a closed platform this is much much harder to accomplish than on a an "open" platform like windows XP is right now.


Quote:
I use Julls when we play gigs together.

That poor guy ;)
MusicMeister 2:53 AM - 23 January, 2007
hehehe... yea... he just hates it when I try to convince him to let me use my SLDZ's and Tor...er, some other software...
nik39 3:39 AM - 23 January, 2007
I hope you meant q not rent. ;)
Daim 10:23 AM - 23 January, 2007
Quote:
Quote:
but this discussion is going to be endless cause it's pretty philosophical.. so i'm out :)


If you're out, why did you post again? ha!


out of the discussion i meant.. but it was too interesting
djknyce 4:54 PM - 23 January, 2007
i just keep all my whitelabels in a seperate folder,
dj disturbed 5:58 PM - 23 January, 2007
Quote:
dj disturbed

Quote:
In that case.. I would say... JUST RECORD IT AS YOU PLAY IT... then you can put it in any format you want from that point!!!!

That is a clear violation of 3.2 (b) in the user agreement:

Quote:
3.2 Undertakings: The User undertakes:

(a) only to use Downloads for Promotional Purposes;

(b) not to copy, sell, rent, reproduce, broadcast, distribute, adapt, reverse engineer, reverse assemble or reverse compile any Download or any part of it, or in particular to do anything to circumvent the copy protection in any Download and the software that plays it, or to permit any other person to do any such thing.


I'm not saying to do it.... but I'm just saying for all those bitching about they can use the tracks to do remixes.... there are ways... It a free download of the music.. If Serato and the Record lables want to have this copy protection on it...then its up to them saying you cant use the tracks... b/c clearly you can. Am I going to change the format of the WL tracks.. no.. I have no need to.. If i need the track for use in a remix.. I can go out and buy it/download it from a pay-for site..

And to be technical about it.. Doing remixes is illigal in the USA if you dont have permission from the legal owner of the rights to that track.... But we can argue that statement for days.
s42000 6:27 PM - 23 January, 2007
I'm spinning while all this is going on .....
look !!! I can do a baby scratch !!!!!!!!!!!
dj disturbed 6:38 PM - 23 January, 2007
Quote:
I'm spinning while all this is going on .....
look !!! I can do a baby scratch !!!!!!!!!!!



lol w0000000000t
dj disturbed 6:58 PM - 23 January, 2007
skinnyguy 8:34 PM - 23 January, 2007
geez....give them an inch....
AKIEM 8:41 PM - 23 January, 2007
thanks, good info

it makes me laugh when all these suposed super rich, killers, drug dealers, thugs, gangster and the people who push them cry when people make an "illigal" copy. where is the moral ground that they stand on? sure legal but... maybe thats why they like to kick in doors.


if they quit pushing all that crap to such extremes maybe people would feel a little different about stealing from suposed super rich, killers, drug dealers, thugs, gangsters!
dave 9:21 PM - 23 January, 2007
Quote:
I'm not saying to do it.... but I'm just saying for all those bitching about they can use the tracks to do remixes.... there are ways... It a free download of the music.. If Serato and the Record lables want to have this copy protection on it...then its up to them saying you cant use the tracks... b/c clearly you can. Am I going to change the format of the WL tracks.. no.. I have no need to.. If i need the track for use in a remix.. I can go out and buy it/download it from a pay-for site..

And to be technical about it.. Doing remixes is illigal in the USA if you dont have permission from the legal owner of the rights to that track.... But we can argue that statement for days.

All good.
dave 9:49 PM - 23 January, 2007
Quote:
www.iht.com

nice article, thanks
DJJOHNNYM 10:17 PM - 23 January, 2007
Quote:
Quote:
The system is working. The HI QUALITY files are restricted to Serato users by default. That was the purpose

It takes the IQ of a monkey to get around this protection.


Quote:
All that whining about the files being locked is just that..whining.

Just because you dont agree with the criticism, its pretty unnecessary to call this whining.


Quote:
If you want to remix the song, buy it...simple.

WHERE can you buy instrumentals and acapellas? Show me.
WHERE can you buy tracks which havent been released on CD/iTunes yet?


Quote:
Trust somebody right now is working on a crack...not only for these locked files, but for Serato "dongle" security also....It's only a matter of time.

Then why not leaving the protection out?


LOL! So are you saying all those DJ's who haven't figured out how to get around the protection are dumber than monkeys?

No offense by the whining comment, but what would you call complaining about free shit?

I guess you could get accapellas and instrumentals from the same place you purchase the songs from, if available. If you CAN'T get it from there, write the record company, tell them you feel like REMIXING the song, and for them to send you the instrumentals and accapellas. At the point they give you permission, I'm sure they will supply you with the files. THAT'S the way it's SUPPOSED TO BE..

Why not leave the protection out? Because they have to show a reasonable attempt at trying to secure the product. If somebody stole your car because you left the KEYS in it...You're negligent.
MusicMeister 10:20 PM - 23 January, 2007
Quote:
I hope you meant q not rent. ;)


Yes... you're right but it's a 'dirty' word around here so I had to stop myself... ;-)
DJJOHNNYM 10:20 PM - 23 January, 2007
Quote:
Plus you totally ignored that once you move to a different software, your library which may be swamped with wl.net files is worthless. Have fun hunting those tracks again.


Man, you don't get it...I DO agree with YOU about not having to duplicate efforts with your library...

But I disagree with you saying that Serato should change up the files...

This.
is.
free.
shit.

You can't put stipulations on free shit....

Just know what you're getting into before you embark on it...that's all.
DJJOHNNYM 10:22 PM - 23 January, 2007
Quote:
well we dont get the music to collect it.. we get it to promote it


EXACTLY!
DJJOHNNYM 10:26 PM - 23 January, 2007
Quote:
So whats up with the vinyl promo releases? I still can play those vinyls which are ten years old, on a stanton turntable, on a vestax turntable, not only on a technics turntable.


That is because they didn't have the technology to restrict you to certain turntables back then. But I bet that if they could somehow code into the vinyl that their record was "Copy Protected", that they would have. Plus not too many people I know had a record printing press in their basement.

Everybody's got a damn CD Burner and internet connection. Times have changed, but the philosophy behind it is still the same.

Stop playin.
Thundercat 10:48 PM - 23 January, 2007
On that same note about promo-only vinyls: there was a finite amount of pressings and the label could account for where each copy was originally sent. That number (whatever the number is) of promotional copies sent out, the record company does recoup an actuall dollar aount for each one. Usually in that little cut they take of the top from each artist until all advances, promo costs, manufacturing, etc. are paid.
AKIEM 1:36 AM - 24 January, 2007
complaining: no one is
White Labels are "free" the software is "free". Just suggestions for improvements.
If the bit rate was too low, say 32k in ssl for example, you wouldnt be satisfied, even if it were "free" right?
Is everything said in the feature suggestion a "complaint"? no, its about improving the product.
Anyone why purchases ssl from this point forward can factor the "free" white labels into the cost of the product, a continually improving product.

remixes: are legal to make, and play, just not sell

As culture and technology changes, the laws have to also change, as well as the way business is done.
this is a fact that is always been true
"intellectual rights" have always been handled like "property rights", but the technology is showing a real and actual difference between the two. That philosophy is old and flawed. it doesnt work, and it doesnt make sense. as painful as it is for companies and people who rely on "intellectual property laws" (me being one of them) things are different now. adapt or parish
DJJOHNNYM 5:13 AM - 24 January, 2007
Basically everyone here agrees that it is nice of Rane/Serato to offer the record pool. That, we all agree is a generous effort. We start to take sides when we discuss the media that's being distributed. The argument seems that if you own Serato, you should have access to the Hi-Quality mp3's, and manipulate them the way you want, just like any other mp3. The idea of limiting promo media has always existed...but the technology wasn't there, instead it was self contained simply because an exact duplication method didn't exist, save someone having access to a record pressing machine.

Our and record stores eventual USAGE of said promos have nothing to do with how it was INTENDED to be distributed. "For Promotional Purposes" means just that....Who really cared? Nobody, the stores would SELL the promos, get the money, and we and we as DJ's would eat it up. Cool. We've been getting over FOR YEARS. It became rountine and accepted....

Now the copy protection technology exists(somewhat), and it's a problem. Only because we were used to doing what we were used to doing. It doesn't mean, simply because it was overlooked and uncontained, that what we got away with was right...

It's a new age folks. I KNOW that if I actually created a joint, that I'd want every single penny I could GET from it, if possible. I might not want my shit mased with Justin or Michael.....I might hate their guts...
nik39 10:39 AM - 24 January, 2007
Quote:
I'm not saying to do it.... but I'm just saying for all those bitching about they can use the tracks to do remixes.... there are ways... It a free download of the music.. If Serato and the Record lables want to have this copy protection on it...then its up to them saying you cant use the tracks... b/c clearly you can.

djdisturbed, just because its free it doesnt mean you can do everything you want with it. What I mean is, you have signed a contract before entering WL.net and agree to the previously menioned point, about not reproducing and circumventing the copy protetion. So its not like Serato didnt tell us ;)

Johhny, that one's for you...
Quote:
complaining: no one is
White Labels are "free" the software is "free". Just suggestions for improvements.
If the bit rate was too low, say 32k in ssl for example, you wouldnt be satisfied, even if it were "free" right?
Is everything said in the feature suggestion a "complaint"? no, its about improving the product.
Anyone why purchases ssl from this point forward can factor the "free" white labels into the cost of the product, a continually improving product.

Thanks Akiem.
AKIEM 7:49 PM - 24 January, 2007
Quote:

Basically everyone here agrees that it is nice of Rane/Serato to offer the record pool. That, we all agree is a generous effort. We start to take sides when we discuss the media that's being distributed. The argument seems that if you own Serato, you should have access to the Hi-Quality mp3's, and manipulate them the way you want, just like any other mp3. The idea of limiting promo media has always existed...but the technology wasn't there, instead it was self contained simply because an exact duplication method didn't exist, save someone having access to a record pressing machine.


I dont think anyone feels as if the files are deserved or have some sort of an expectation about them or feel entitled to have them be high quality, and unlocked. Its a mater of what people would like.

[as cool as these guys are] I dont think Serato is being "nice" or "generous" by offering WLs. To me its part of a market strategy, a smart one. Its the same as improving the product.

I dont have a problem with limitations on promos, but if the limitation causes it to not be used in the first place then whats the point?

Everything is a trade off. If they are too much of a hassle for me, I wont use them. If they are too large they wont be downloaded. If they arnt protected labels wont give them and so on...

Its about finding a balance

Quote:

Our and record stores eventual USAGE of said promos have nothing to do with how it was INTENDED to be distributed. "For Promotional Purposes" means just that....Who really cared? Nobody, the stores would SELL the promos, get the money, and we and we as DJ's would eat it up. Cool. We've been getting over FOR YEARS. It became rountine and accepted....


Well the only vinyl promos Ive ever purchased were rare oop. All the crap I was getting was for free, mater of fact I just dumped a huge stack of it into the dumpster out back. I was never getting over, they want me to play it.

Quote:

Now the copy protection technology exists(somewhat), and it's a problem. Only because we were used to doing what we were used to doing. It doesn't mean, simply because it was overlooked and uncontained, that what we got away with was right...


I still dont see where we were "getting over", labels wanted you to play shit so they gave it to you. piriod.

no, you are not suposed to sell it, but thats not at issue here. no one is asking to be able to sell it. no one is asking to be able to p2p it. no one is asking to use it for personal entertainment.

all the suggestions have been about using it to work with.

Quote:

It's a new age folks. I KNOW that if I actually created a joint, that I'd want every single penny I could GET from it, if possible. I might not want my shit mased with Justin or Michael.....I might hate their guts...


If you dont want it mashed then dont put out acapellas and instrumentals. Isnt that obvious? If you want every single penny from every single copy, then dont give out promos, isnt that obvious too?

If you are putting out acapellas I am assuming that you would like it to be mashed or remixed. Never in my life have I heard of an acapella being straight up playd in a club, on the radio, in a car or in, in an ipod, or wherever else. Ive never heard of some underground basement scene where people are partying to acapellas, or trading acapella mixtapes.



I have absolutly no problem with any company doing whatever they need to in order to protect their "property". But at the same time if they want me to promote it then they are gonig to have to make it sufficiently attractive for me to use it. If vinyl promos were all mono and low level I would put them straight in the trash.


This is a trade off. Thats why Im explaining what it is that I do with files, and giving feedback on if I will even use them.


DJJOHNNYM, let me ask you, do you have a problem with any of these?

a. WhiteLabels become unlocked several months after the release date.
b. unlocked WhiteLabels are placed on a mirror site several months after the release date.
c. WhiteLabels are able to be edited with a WL editing application that also rips to the WL format.
d. WL are "unlocked", but watermarked with a user code that would end your privilege to use the service if leaked.

DJJOHNNYM, if WL were 32k mono when played in SSL would you suggest something better?
nik39 7:59 PM - 24 January, 2007
lol. I ♥ AKIEM ;)
scotty B 9:10 PM - 24 January, 2007
AKEIM always coming With some Knowledge, or Constructive criticism! Points well taken
s42000 10:05 PM - 24 January, 2007
^^ Lest you forget ... this is the fella who integrated his SL-1 into his TTM-56

Akiem, how's the TTM-56SL doing ?
scotty B 10:09 PM - 24 January, 2007
I know.... Not to mention Metal Face's DJ! there is obviously a Method to his Madness.
musiclee 10:17 PM - 24 January, 2007
does this whitelabel thing work with the mp4 mixer?
nik39 10:27 PM - 24 January, 2007
Yes. With any SSL hardware.
DJKasper_YNY 12:43 AM - 25 January, 2007
my 2 pennies.. lol.
I think the whitelabel is good.
I dont think they really need to worry about people reverse engineering them and putting them up on p2p networks or the other "DJ ONLY" sites (not p2p) that list the songs illegally. Those sites get the songs leaked way before record labels will place them up on whitelable anyway. so by the time whitelabel offers them, the deejays that use the illegal services will have had them already. the instrumentals and accs are the only thing people may want to try to get if they cant find them anywhere else.

so whitelabel is cool, like the other dj said, we promote their music.. its not arrogant for a DJ to suggest that we go hand in hand with labels - we are their advertising. and they know it too. It may be arrogant however for me to say that DJ's are not the target audience (consumers).. we are the marketing department for labels. lol

We are the music industries dirty secret. LOLOLOLOL
ok, so i had 3 pennies worth. LOL
DJKasper_YNY 12:54 AM - 25 January, 2007
by the way, any hip hop DJ's in NY? remember what white labels were? lolol
nik39 1:01 AM - 25 January, 2007
Quote:
my 2 pennies..

You dont want to know what I read instead of "pennies"...
DJKasper_YNY 1:19 AM - 25 January, 2007
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL aw man your funny! if i had two, i think i would be the man for real.. no matter how freaky it was. LOLOLOLOL Plus I would have a new DJ name. LOL
dj disturbed 1:28 AM - 25 January, 2007
Dj Double Shlong
AKIEM 2:28 AM - 25 January, 2007
Quote:
^^ Lest you forget ... this is the fella who integrated his SL-1 into his TTM-56

Akiem, how's the TTM-56SL doing ?


works perfectly, Ive taken it on tour, and probably 20 or more flights, still in effect. Even tho, Ive got my 57 I bring it out from time to time.

what should I do with it?
DJJOHNNYM 4:13 AM - 25 January, 2007
Quote:
I dont think anyone feels as if the files are deserved or have some sort of an expectation about them or feel entitled to have them be high quality, and unlocked. Its a mater of what people would like.


OF COURSE, there is an expectation or feeling of entitlement because if there weren't, people wouldn't be mentioning what they "like". But that's how people are, give an inch, they'd want a mile (me included)....

Look at all this "Free Shit" you get...

1.) The updates are free. Don't most other companies charge you for updates?

2.) The message board is free, and you get to connect directly with Rane/Serato developers. And they're cool about shit.

3.) Now the .wl files are free.

Per the connection of this board, didn't somebody even get some Digital Ortofon carts for free?

You can't complain about free shit.

Don't you THINK Rane/Serato thought about this process before they put these files out? They are locked for a reason, not to just make your DJ life difficult. It's simple, they supply you with promo copies of files for "FREE" , but the tradeoff is that you hear them in high quality through their product. Simple. That's a brilliant marketing strategy. Of course there are ways around it, but that's just it...You have to work (or invest "time") to get to that point.

Quote:
[as cool as these guys are] I dont think Serato is being "nice" or "generous" by offering WLs. To me its part of a market strategy, a smart one. Its the same as improving the product.


Ok, we agree on something. There's a method to the madness. Now say they promote Serato with access to a FREE record pool. The Serato price tag doesn't seem so bad now...does it? Say you belonged to a record pool that charged you say 50.00 bucks a month. Over the course of a year, Serato just PAID for itself. Now anything over a year is cake.

Quote:
I dont have a problem with limitations on promos, but if the limitation causes it to not be used in the first place then whats the point?


I doubt that the entire Serato community would unite and boycott the .wl files, just because they can't be played thru other software packages. And so what if they DID, does that hurt Rane/Serato pockets? NO! Why? Because the shit is FREE! LOL.

Quote:
Everything is a trade off. If they are too much of a hassle for me, I wont use them. If they are too large they wont be downloaded. If they arnt protected labels wont give them and so on...

Its about finding a balance


But what exactly is the "HASSLE" here? That you can't listen in Hi-Quality through another product? It's designed that way. Plenty of people will listen through Serato, and not think twice.

Quote:
Well the only vinyl promos Ive ever purchased were rare oop. All the crap I was getting was for free, mater of fact I just dumped a huge stack of it into the dumpster out back. I was never getting over, they want me to play it.



Sure you've gotten over. You can't tell me that you've never gone into a record store, and wanted a record that said "For Promotional Purposes Only", (meaning that the store was supposed to KEEP IT), and they sold it to you. Would you have rather them told you, "Sorry son, that record is for "Promotional Purposes Only", we can't sell it to you? LMAO...Stop playin.

Quote:

I still dont see where we were "getting over", labels wanted you to play shit so they gave it to you. piriod.


And that's the EXACT SAME THING HERE, they want you to play the shit, so they GIVE you the files for FREE. No difference.

Quote:

no, you are not suposed to sell it, but thats not at issue here. no one is asking to be able to sell it. no one is asking to be able to p2p it. no one is asking to use it for personal entertainment.

all the suggestions have been about using it to work with.



See, you're not looking at the BIG PICTURE HERE...Maybe YOU aren't gonna sell it or P2P it...but you don't think somebody who owns Serato ISN'T gonna stick it on a P2P Network? Get real. And pretend that the mp3 was a piece of vinyl...What would you do in THAT situation? You couldn't alter the vinyl...all you could do was double it up, or save it to tape, in a remixed version.

Quote:

If you dont want it mashed then dont put out acapellas and instrumentals. Isnt that obvious?


No it isn't obvious...Do you think accapellas were created for the sole purpose of mashups? Ummm...no.

Quote:
If you want every single penny from every single copy, then dont give out promos, isnt that obvious too?


Ummm...NO AGAIN... Promos serve a purpose. There are supposed to be in limited quantity and already factored into the big picture. Technology nowadayz will turn a "Promo" into a million copies, and no album sales for the artist.

Quote:

If you are putting out acapellas I am assuming that you would like it to be mashed or remixed. Never in my life have I heard of an acapella being straight up playd in a club, on the radio, in a car or in, in an ipod, or wherever else. Ive never heard of some underground basement scene where people are partying to acapellas, or trading acapella mixtapes.


I don't know what clubs YOU'VE been too, but PLENTY of them play accapellas...and mix and match them with other things. But guess what? The club isn't selling a mix of the night at the front door, now are they?

Quote:

I have absolutly no problem with any company doing whatever they need to in order to protect their "property". But at the same time if they want me to promote it then they are gonig to have to make it sufficiently attractive for me to use it. If vinyl promos were all mono and low level I would put them straight in the trash.

This is a trade off. Thats why Im explaining what it is that I do with files, and giving feedback on if I will even use them.

DJJOHNNYM, let me ask you, do you have a problem with any of these?

a. WhiteLabels become unlocked several months after the release date.
b. unlocked WhiteLabels are placed on a mirror site several months after the release date.
c. WhiteLabels are able to be edited with a WL editing application that also rips to the WL format.
d. WL are "unlocked", but watermarked with a user code that would end your privilege to use the service if leaked.

DJJOHNNYM, if WL were 32k mono when played in SSL would you suggest something better?


All you're saying is I want my file a certain way , but I'm telling you the shit is free....you really shouldn't have anything to complain about...

But let's flip it real quick...

1.) How much would you be willing to PAY SERATO to have these files unlocked?

2.) Let's take it a step further, how much do you TRUST your fellow Serato DJ's to not distribute the unlocked files? Or make sure they don't wind up on ANYBODY'S P2P NETWORK?


Let's really freshen it up...

Would you be willing to subscribe to Serato/Rane's record pool where they send you the files, WATERMARKED, and then, say that if they found a file that they sent YOU on a P2P network, that not only would you be kicked out of the Pool, but Mandatory Copyright infringement charges would be filed against you?

Would you PAY to take that chance?
nik39 4:22 AM - 25 January, 2007
Quote:
Look at all this "Free Shit" you get...

1.) The updates are free. Don't most other companies charge you for updates?

2.) The message board is free, and you get to connect directly with Rane/Serato developers. And they're cool about shit.

3.) Now the .wl files are free.

Per the connection of this board, didn't somebody even get some Digital Ortofon carts for free?

You can't complain about free shit.

You didnt understand the part of Akiem...

Quote:
[as cool as these guys are] I dont think Serato is being "nice" or "generous" by offering WLs. To me its part of a market strategy, a smart one. Its the same as improving the product.


Free updates? SSL is being advertised with free updates. So its not something which is "free" and we have to prais serato for it. (Though I am still thankful)

Quote:
No it isn't obvious...Do you think accapellas were created for the sole purpose of mashups? Ummm...no.

Assuming mashup=remix... what do you think is the reason that labels give out acapellas?

Quote:
All you're saying is I want my file a certain way , but I'm telling you the shit is free....you really shouldn't have anything to complain about...

Jesus... nothing in life is for free. Except for love. And even then, some people gotta pay for it.

Quote:
Would you be willing to subscribe to Serato/Rane's record pool where they send you the files, WATERMARKED, and then, say that if they found a file that they sent YOU on a P2P network, that not only would you be kicked out of the Pool, but Mandatory Copyright infringement charges would be filed against you?

Would you PAY to take that chance?

Me, without any hesitation I would agree.
MusicMeister 4:26 AM - 25 January, 2007
Yes, I would PAY to take that chance...
I already download files that are watermarked in one way or another from a number of subscription sites.

But I also get files from more than a dozen sources already so whitelabel would be nice for the stuff I don't already get from somewhere else or if it was something I would pay for anyway.

But all that aside... I'd be willing to accept watermarked files that used stegnography where the watermark was IN THE AUDIO so that a simple burn/rip from CD wouldn't remove it like the DRM on iTunes files.

But there's a good chance I'm in the minority...
DJJOHNNYM 4:31 AM - 25 January, 2007
Quote:

You didnt understand the part of Akiem...


What is there not to understand?

Quote:

Free updates? SSL is being advertised with free updates. So its not something which is "free" and we have to prais serato for it. (Though I am still thankful)


The point is that other companies CHARGE you for those updates.

Quote:

Assuming mashup=remix... what do you think is the reason that labels give out acapellas?

So you can LISTEN to it...Hell, a lot of times, an acapella is used to decipher the actual words or lyrics of a song.

Quote:
Jesus... nothing in life is for free. Except for love. And even then, some people gotta pay for it.

Ok, well if nothing is free, then just consider the PRICE you're paying for these .wl tracks is the fact you need to play them thru Serato to hear Hi-Quality....


Quote:
Me, without any hesitation I would agree.


You agree to what? Trust your fellow man?
DJJOHNNYM 4:37 AM - 25 January, 2007
Quote:
Yes, I would PAY to take that chance...
I already download files that are watermarked in one way or another from a number of subscription sites.

But I also get files from more than a dozen sources already so whitelabel would be nice for the stuff I don't already get from somewhere else or if it was something I would pay for anyway.

But all that aside... I'd be willing to accept watermarked files that used stegnography where the watermark was IN THE AUDIO so that a simple burn/rip from CD wouldn't remove it like the DRM on iTunes files.

But there's a good chance I'm in the minority...


See? You're a stand up guy...

The record companies wouldn't mind giving shit to you, cuz they could TRUST you not to distribute it. WHY? Because you'd be willing to PAY for the service. On top of that, knowing that you would instantly be kicked out and sued if your joints make it into enemy territory is a big step....

Most cats swap shit so much (me included) that they would be in front of Judge RIAA tomorrow.
nik39 11:41 AM - 25 January, 2007
Quote:
What is there not to understand?

ITs not just free. Serato is not a charity organization. Its a company to make profit. Yes, the good thing is (which I dont take as granted) they are not orientated to *maximize* profit.


Quote:
The point is that other companies CHARGE you for those updates.

Not at all. If Mercedes advertise their cars as "warranty 15 years, it will not break, if it does we will replace your car with a new model", I truly dont care what the other companies do. Thats MErcedes offer... you can bet they have added all potential future costs into the price they charge you now for that car.


Quote:
So you can LISTEN to it...Hell, a lot of times, an acapella is used to decipher the actual words or lyrics of a song.

Right... thats okay for some non-american dumba$$ like me, who understands sh!t. But do you really think *that* is the reason why labels add acappella versions? Dont make me laugh ;)

Quote:
Quote:
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Me, without any hesitation I would agree.

You agree to what? Trust your fellow man?

Thats what I wrote:

Quote:
Quote:
Would you be willing to subscribe to Serato/Rane's record pool where they send you the files, WATERMARKED, and then, say that if they found a file that they sent YOU on a P2P network, that not only would you be kicked out of the Pool, but Mandatory Copyright infringement charges would be filed against you?

Would you PAY to take that chance?

Me, without any hesitation I would agree.

Yes, I would even pay for watermarked audio files without DRM protection. Of course I would pay.
DJJOHNNYM 1:12 PM - 25 January, 2007
Quote:
ITs not just free. Serato is not a charity organization. Its a company to make profit. Yes, the good thing is (which I dont take as granted) they are not orientated to *maximize* profit.


All things considered, the day you bought Serato, you PAID for the hardware. That's all you were entitled to. Some time passed, and now due to the fact that you own (or have access to) that piece of hardware, you are now able to obtain an additional service at no cost to you. That my friend is a freebie. Ok, let's put it this way, it might not be "free" because somebody is putting out some dough to get it into our hands, but...

[B]
IT
IS
OF
NO
COST
TO
YOU.[/B]

Quote:
Not at all. If Mercedes advertise their cars as "warranty 15 years, it will not break, if it does we will replace your car with a new model", I truly dont care what the other companies do. Thats MErcedes offer... you can bet they have added all potential future costs into the price they charge you now for that car.


But where in Serato/Rane's warranty can you infer that all updates will or should be free? As a matter of fact, I'm not sure if it's happened, but I do believe they will have some type of "plug in" that will be available for some type of price. So they COULD charge you for updates, but it seems to me, that most times they don't.

Quote:

Right... thats okay for some non-american dumba$$ like me, who understands sh!t. But do you really think *that* is the reason why labels add acappella versions? Dont make me laugh ;)

What are you talking about? Mashing JUST started getting popular mainstream wise. They've been releasing acapellas and instruments since disco singles. Sometimes the listener wants to just hear the music, no vocals....Sometimes they want to examine the words, do you know how many times I wished I had the acapella to something, JUST so I could understand what the vocalist is saying? Sometimes the instrumentals could be used for background music to showcase various elements of the song. Y'all got it twisted. The Artists aren't releasing the various versions of these songs, that's the studio (engineer), who would appreciate the different versions for distribution.

Quote:

Yes, I would even pay for watermarked audio files without DRM protection. Of course I would pay.


But that's just it...YOU might pay, but most cats can get this stuff for a lot LESS than what you'd pay. So, somebody at the helm says, Ok, let's throw these loyal Serato DJ's a bone. We'll give them access to these files, BUT they can only play the Hi-Fi ones on Serato. The majority of Serato DJ's look at it as a bonus. A few complain about not being able to edit the songs...(which they're technically not supposed to do in the first place becuz they legally don't have permission from the labels in the first place), but one thing is certain....It increases the ATTRACTIVENESS of Serato overall. Like I said, the pool would basically pay for Serato by ITSELF in about a years time.
nik39 2:04 PM - 25 January, 2007
Quote:
[B]
IT
IS
OF
NO
COST
TO
YOU.[/B]

You need to read up on economics, mate.

Quote:
But where in Serato/Rane's warranty can you infer that all updates will or should be free? As a matter of fact, I'm not sure if it's happened, but I do believe they will have some type of "plug in" that will be available for some type of price. So they COULD charge you for updates, but it seems to me, that most times they don't.

Thats a feature they use to advertise their products with. So when a customer wants to buy it, he knows that free updates are a part of the package.

Quote:
What are you talking about? Mashing JUST started getting popular mainstream wise.

Have you been living under a rock? I have records from 93 with blends/remixes/"mashups".

Quote:
They've been releasing acapellas and instruments since disco singles.

So what? That doesnt proof anything. We are speculating. From my POV your argument doesnt make a lot of sense. Record labels add this so you can understand the lyrics better? They can always provide the lyrics on the record sleeve. Doh!

Quote:
The Artists aren't releasing the various versions of these songs, that's the studio (engineer), who would appreciate the different versions for distribution.

What? The studio engineer decides which version to be release?

Quote:
But that's just it...YOU might pay

Pardon, whats your point?? You asked ME, and ME replied. Now you come up with "its only YOU.."? What?

Quote:
but most cats can get this stuff for a lot LESS than what you'd pay.

You asked ME. And BTW, I also know where to get this stuff for lot LESS. Thats not the point of the discussion.
DJJOHNNYM 3:20 PM - 25 January, 2007
Quote:
You need to read up on economics, mate.

Why? It's simple. There is NO COST to you to get the files from the pool. Hell, there's no cost to ME to join the pool, and I don't even HAVE Serato yet, and I already see it as an added value. I'm not buying Serato because of the affiliation with the .wl files, but because it is a great product. The .wl files are an added bonus. You don't need an economics course to understand that one homey.

Quote:
Thats a feature they use to advertise their products with. So when a customer wants to buy it, he knows that free updates are a part of the package.
What are you talking about? Where does Serato advertise FREE updates?

Quote:
Have you been living under a rock? I have records from 93 with blends/remixes/"mashups".
You didn't pay attention to what I said, I said Mashing just started getting poplular MAINSTREAM WISE. We all know remixing has been there forever...Now you have Granny talkin' bout did you hear that MASHUP.

Quote:
So what? That doesnt proof anything. We are speculating. From my POV your argument doesnt make a lot of sense. Record labels add this so you can understand the lyrics better? They can always provide the lyrics on the record sleeve. Doh!


On the contrary, YOU are speclulating LOL... Suppose the listener is blind...and the record sleeve doesn't have braile? They have to LISTEN to it...

Quote:
What? The studio engineer decides which version to be release?
I'm sure they advised them as to how it may benefit the sale of the record.

Quote:

Pardon, whats your point?? You asked ME, and ME replied. Now you come up with "its only YOU.."? What?

My point is that you are taking the stance that this "Locked" issue is a BIG DEAL for the majority of Serato DJ's...when in fact, it only effects a few of them...And those few already KNOW how to get around it....

Quote:

You asked ME. And BTW, I also know where to get this stuff for lot LESS. Thats not the point of the discussion.


Ok, so if you already know where to get this stuff for less, why try to impose upon Serato for them to change their files, when you already HAVE a source for the same files?
nik39 3:28 PM - 25 January, 2007
Quote:
You don't need an economics course to understand that one homey.

Obviously *you* do.


Quote:
What are you talking about? Where does Serato advertise FREE updates?

Search the forum. Talk to the moderators.


Quote:
You didn't pay attention to what I said, I said Mashing just started getting poplular MAINSTREAM WISE. We all know remixing has been there forever...Now you have Granny talkin' bout did you hear that MASHUP.

It doesnt make a difference whether its mainstream or not. DJs have been "remixing" all the time. Dont you think acapella versions influenced them and influences vice versa the labels?

Did you ever ask yourself why you often find acappellas on vinyls (which are DJ tools) and rarely on CDs? Your reasoning doesnt make any sense at all, sorry.


Quote:
On the contrary, YOU are speclulating LOL... Suppose the listener is blind...and the record sleeve doesn't have braile? They have to LISTEN to it...

Ryte. Good point. *sigh*


Quote:
Ok, so if you already know where to get this stuff for less, why try to impose upon Serato for them to change their files, when you already HAVE a source for the same files?

Maybe b/c these other sources are illegal? I am looking for a legal way. WE ALL ARE LOOKING FOR A LEGAL WAY. Otherwise you could stick to your p2p crap.
DJJOHNNYM 3:39 PM - 25 January, 2007
Quote:
Obviously *you* do.

Nope, you're the one who can't put 1 and 1 together...and that's just straight math...lol.


Quote:
Search the forum. Talk to the moderators.
No AGAIN, you did not read correctly. I said where does Serato ADVERTISE FREE Updates....They do NOT advertise it. They may offer it, but it is not part of their Ad Campaign to get you to buy Serato, try again.

Quote:
It doesnt make a difference whether its mainstream or not.
Sure it does, because now that a lot of people LIKE MASHES, that makes DJ'S want to have the tools to create them more. And since the files are locked, you can't create them in their native form. That's the argument.

Quote:

Did you ever ask yourself why you often find acappellas on vinyls (which are DJ tools) and rarely on CDs? Your reasoning doesnt make any sense at all, sorry.
What are you talking about? On almost EVERY CD SINGLE I see, there are accapella versions and instrumentals. You are talking about ALBUM VERSIONS.

Vinyl Singles = CD Singles - Both mostly have acapellas and instrumentals.

Quote:
Ryte. Good point. *sigh*


***chalks up 2 more points for me*** lol.


Quote:
Maybe b/c these other sources are illegal? I am looking for a legal way. WE ALL ARE LOOKING FOR A LEGAL WAY. Otherwise you could stick to your p2p crap.


So why did you even mention it? So basically you're saying you CAN'T get these same files LEGALLY from somewhere else, so now the .wl pool looks inviting, but you don't want to do the extra work to "make it work" for you...

But yet, you have a backup plan of going to P2P environments.

Nik, you just proved my point...This is exactly why those files are locked, because lord knows, you could accidently leave one of those files in a shared directory on your pc, and the next thing you know, it ends up on Limewire...

Shame on you.
society 3:42 PM - 25 January, 2007
I've gotta go with nik39 on the instrumental/acappella thing.

If you look at the history of remixing (check out "Last Night a DJ Saved My Life"), instrumental versions of songs started with dub music in the '60s. Disco producers did the same thing, and made the important step of releasing them on 12" vinyl instead of 45s. The fact that you can almost only find instrumentals and acappellas on 12" singles (and not on albums) tells you that they're intended for DJ remixing use, just as they were in the disco era, except that back then the primary intended remix use was live remixing.
DJJOHNNYM 3:55 PM - 25 January, 2007
Of course the Accapellas were ULTIMATELY used by DJ's to "REMIX" OR EXTEND the song a certain way, but that was just it....It was to be used solely by the DJ..He didn't give that record away, he played it and remixed it live...

What's the difference here? You get the wl. file, you PLAY IT or REMIX it LIVE and everybody should be happy. And to prevent you from GIVING IT AWAY, it's locked.

You didn't have the ability before to extend the intro of a song unless you had 2 of the same song, and actively extended it....

aka DJ'ing.
nik39 4:03 PM - 25 January, 2007
Quote:
What are you talking about? On almost EVERY CD SINGLE I see, there are accapella versions and instrumentals. You are talking about ALBUM VERSIONS.

Vinyl Singles = CD Singles - Both mostly have acapellas and instrumentals.

Ryte. Have you ever been to a CD store? I mean, no offense, but didnt you say (I am not 100% sure...) you download from illegal sources anyway?
Maybe its different in the states, but in Germany CD singles in the store have rarely acapella version, its just the promo cds which may have ac. versions.
Feel free to proove that I am wrong. Check the current billboard top 40, check the commercially available CD singles and check how many of those tracks have ac. version if you go to walmart.


Quote:
Nik, you just proved my point...This is exactly why those files are locked, because lord knows, you could accidently leave one of those files in a shared directory on your pc, and the next thing you know, it ends up on Limewire...

Are you kidding me? If YOU are using limewire, I could just give a fuck. If they bust your ass, good, one idiot less sharing the music. Esp. if you "accidently" share it, in other words you are too dumb to keep your stuff straight and sorted.

For myself, as said before, add watermarks. I have nothing to hide, I dont freaking put songs into P2P networks. Period.
DJJOHNNYM 4:12 PM - 25 January, 2007
Quote:
Ryte. Have you ever been to a CD store? I mean, no offense, but didnt you say (I am not 100% sure...) you download from illegal sources anyway?
Maybe its different in the states, but in Germany CD singles in the store have rarely acapella version, its just the promo cds which may have ac. versions.
Feel free to proove that I am wrong. Check the current billboard top 40, check the commercially available CD singles and check how many of those tracks have ac. version if you go to walmart.


Hell, I stay on LimeWire ALL DAY..lol...No shame here...BUT that's just it...They don't want to take the chance of someone like ME, who doesn't have Serato YET, going to that FREE POOL and downloading some shit, and then sharing it. The plan works great.

As for CD singles here, I see Acapella versions all day, everyday on CD singles in RECORD STORES...Again, we're not talking album versions, but CD singles. I don't buy music at Walmart.

Quote:
Are you kidding me? If YOU are using limewire, I could just give a fuck. If they bust your ass, good, one idiot less sharing the music. Esp. if you "accidently" share it, in other words you are too dumb to keep your stuff straight and sorted.

For myself, as said before, add watermarks. I have nothing to hide, I dont freaking put songs into P2P networks. Period.


Ummm...are you ***NOT*** being nice to me? Are you referring to me as an 'idiot', or dumb?

I think you owe me an apology before I start hitting "Report" buttons....this conversation was very CIVIL until I hit a nerve...
nik39 4:24 PM - 25 January, 2007
No, it was 'you' as 'you in general'. You = anyone who does that. So I dont owe you anything ;)
nik39 4:26 PM - 25 January, 2007
Quote:
As for CD singles here, I see Acapella versions all day, everyday on CD singles in RECORD STORES...Again, we're not talking album versions, but CD singles. I don't buy music at Walmart.

Aight.. I'll have to go out anyway now, on the way... I'll check the local recordstore and tell you how many cd singles from the top40 have acc. versions over here. It would surprise me if the results would be very differen to the results you guys in the states have. Later.
DJJOHNNYM 4:47 PM - 25 January, 2007
You still owe me an apology!
AKIEM 6:57 PM - 25 January, 2007
fore the sake of argument only because I dont really expect reasonable responses anymore

Quote:
Quote:
I dont think anyone feels as if the files are deserved or have some sort of an expectation about them or feel entitled to have them be high quality, and unlocked. Its a mater of what people would like.


OF COURSE, there is an expectation or feeling of entitlement because if there weren't, people wouldn't be mentioning what they "like". But that's how people are, give an inch, they'd want a mile (me included)....

Look at all this "Free Shit" you get...

1.) The updates are free. Don't most other companies charge you for updates?

2.) The message board is free, and you get to connect directly with Rane/Serato developers. And they're cool about shit.

3.) Now the .wl files are free.

Per the connection of this board, didn't somebody even get some Digital Ortofon carts for free?

You can't complain about free shit.

Don't you THINK Rane/Serato thought about this process before they put these files out? They are locked for a reason, not to just make your DJ life difficult. It's simple, they supply you with promo copies of files for "FREE" , but the tradeoff is that you hear them in high quality through their product. Simple. That's a brilliant marketing strategy. Of course there are ways around it, but that's just it...You have to work (or invest "time") to get to that point.


Yes I believe that Serato thought out the situation, but I do not believe that they are infallible GODs ether, otherwise it would be perfect from inception, but its not. And thats why they need feedback from users.

I, as the user I am giving suggestion and feedback about what would make the product better. I am not demanding, that it be done my way, Im not even demanding that I be listened to, I humbly set these words out for the Serato proto-gods to read at their own leisure or not at all. I would hope that they take my words into account but expect it not. It would be really cool if they would implement any of my suggestions (as they may have in the past) but I demand it not.

I do not expect, demand, or feel entitled to have any of the great suggestions that I have made so far ever be implemented. period end of story.

also, this is not in any way shape or for connected to the "price". In other words, I would be making the exact same suggestion having paid $1000 for it or if they gave it to me and paid me to use it as endorsement.

so the mater of any part of it, or entirely "free" has absolutely no baring here, none.

the "price tag" is not part of my reason for wanting it to work a certain way. I just happen to believe that WLs are not entirely "free" and for the sake of argument

Free

5. exempt from external authority, interference, restriction, etc., as a person or one's will, thought, choice, action, etc.; independent; unrestricted.

that does not describe WLs

6. able to do something at will; at liberty: free to choose.

that does not describe WLs

9. exempt or released from something specified that controls, restrains, burdens, etc. (usually fol. by from or of): free from worry; free of taxes.

that does not describe WLs

11. provided without, or not subject to, a charge or payment: free parking; a free sample.

that does not describe WLs because if you do not own SSL then you can not use WLs, but if you purchase SSL then you can use SSL. you must purchase in order to use.

12. given without consideration of a return or reward: a free offer of legal advice.

that does not describe WLs because the labels expect that the DJ will promote the song, not simply enjoy it for personal use. And Searato expects that WLs will raise the value of the SSL system. Both, I would consider return, or reward. Labels are not just being "nice"

13. unimpeded, as motion or movement; easy, firm, or swift.

that does not describe WLs

14. not held fast; loose; unattached: to get one's arm free.

that does not describe WLs

21. not subject to special regulations, restrictions, duties, etc.: The ship was given free passage.

that does not describe WLs

23. that may be used by or is open to all: a free market.

that does not describe WLs

29. at liberty to enter and enjoy at will (usually fol. by of): to be free of a friend's house.

that does not describe WLs

31. easily worked, as stone, land, etc.

that does not describe WLs

36. without cost, payment, or charge.

that does not describe WLs because if you do not own SSL then you can not use WLs, but if you purchase SSL then you can use SSL. you must purchase in order to use.




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[as cool as these guys are] I dont think Serato is being "nice" or "generous" by offering WLs. To me its part of a market strategy, a smart one. Its the same as improving the product.


Ok, we agree on something. There's a method to the madness. Now say they promote Serato with access to a FREE record pool. The Serato price tag doesn't seem so bad now...does it? Say you belonged to a record pool that charged you say 50.00 bucks a month. Over the course of a year, Serato just PAID for itself. Now anything over a year is cake.


dude thats a straw man. the only one who keeps bringing up the price is you. its moot.
yeah that would be a great deal, but no one in this thread, and seldom on this board are people having problems with the price.

the price of the SSL system, is reasonable, at a decent price point, and an excellent value. my second greatest purchases after my 1200s, so far.

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I dont have a problem with limitations on promos, but if the limitation causes it to not be used in the first place then whats the point?


I doubt that the entire Serato community would unite and boycott the .wl files, just because they can't be played thru other software packages. And so what if they DID, does that hurt Rane/Serato pockets? NO! Why? Because the shit is FREE! LOL.


um, I dont think anyone would "boycott" WL ether, nore has anyone suggested that anyone would, for any reason. so bringing that up, then knocking it down is pretty meaningless.

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Everything is a trade off. If they are too much of a hassle for me, I wont use them. If they are too large they wont be downloaded. If they arnt protected labels wont give them and so on...

Its about finding a balance


But what exactly is the "HASSLE" here? That you can't listen in Hi-Quality through another product? It's designed that way. Plenty of people will listen through Serato, and not think twice.


cmon guy, if you are going to argue against my position then you have to make a little effort to know what my position is!

I will find it only a little anoying when going over my set on my ipod. Altho this is not a major concern for me, I can understand how it would be for other people

My issues are not being able to edit the files, and not being able to back them up. It is emparitive without reservation that I be able to back up my system and my files by several means. And as an artist I need the freedom to edit my records.

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Well the only vinyl promos Ive ever purchased were rare oop. All the crap I was getting was for free, mater of fact I just dumped a huge stack of it into the dumpster out back. I was never getting over, they want me to play it.



Sure you've gotten over. You can't tell me that you've never gone into a record store, and wanted a record that said "For Promotional Purposes Only", (meaning that the store was supposed to KEEP IT), and they sold it to you. Would you have rather them told you, "Sorry son, that record is for "Promotional Purposes Only", we can't sell it to you? LMAO...Stop playin.


Out of the seven to eight thousand records I have now, maybe twelve thousand that I have owned, Ive probably purchased less then ten promos. I purchased them because they are rare and oop. If you want to call that "getting over" be my guest, if you ask me who ever got it for free might have gotten over by selling it. But almost all the promos that Ive gotten have been given to me for "free".

Its funny how you think you know what happens when I walk into a record store LOL.

I quit excepting promos years ago before owning SSL even, because it was too much of a hassle for me. Most of them were worthless crap and I had way too many records already. I found it more efficient and effective to just purchase the records that I needed because trying to extract the one record out of thirty that I wanted just became too much trouble. Besides my sets have always been mostly "classic"

if you call that "getting over" fine, whatever.

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I still dont see where we were "getting over", labels wanted you to play shit so they gave it to you. piriod.


And that's the EXACT SAME THING HERE, they want you to play the shit, so they GIVE you the files for FREE. No difference.


right, no difference, I wasnt "getting over" then, and Im not getting over now. piriod, end of story

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no, you are not suposed to sell it, but thats not at issue here. no one is asking to be able to sell it. no one is asking to be able to p2p it. no one is asking to use it for personal entertainment.

all the suggestions have been about using it to work with.



See, you're not looking at the BIG PICTURE HERE...Maybe YOU aren't gonna sell it or P2P it...but you don't think somebody who owns Serato ISN'T gonna stick it on a P2P Network? Get real. And pretend that the mp3 was a piece of vinyl...What would you do in THAT situation? You couldn't alter the vinyl...all you could do was double it up, or save it to tape, in a remixed version.



cmon g, you keep arguing against things that I havnt, nore has anyone else said.

like I said before: when I used vinyl I wished that I could have made my own edits and pressed my own shit, I considered cutting dublates but never got to it. when the vestax vinyl cutter came out I wanted to buy one bout didnt have the money and had no desire to go into that buisiness. when cdjs came out I got some for shows, but didnt like them for clubs and parties. I ended up using some real white label DJ joints from time to time. But now, I have SSL and very excited to be edeting cuts. This is just he beguining of the "edit era" trust me.

As far as remixes, I was doing those way back when I had to mix down to cassette, couldnt play those at the club.

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If you dont want it mashed then dont put out acapellas and instrumentals. Isnt that obvious?


No it isn't obvious...Do you think accapellas were created for the sole purpose of mashups? Ummm...no.


okay then, what was the perpouse, enlighten me because I dont know why or when it becase common paractice.

But I do know that anyone with any common knowledge understands pretty clearly that putting out acapellas makes it possible for people to remix and mash it up. If they dont want to let it happen then they shouldnt put them out. period, end of story.


LOL for blind people to learn the words????????? cmon g, if your point dont make any freaking sense at all, just give it up. where are all the acapella CDs? why only 12s? dont tell me that possibly blind people prefer the format over CD just like DJs? LOL

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If you want every single penny from every single copy, then dont give out promos, isnt that obvious too?


Ummm...NO AGAIN... Promos serve a purpose. There are supposed to be in limited quantity and already factored into the big picture. Technology nowadayz will turn a "Promo" into a million copies, and no album sales for the artist.


well, we were talking about vinyl first. and second, it would still aply if you want to squeze every single peny out of every single unit then dont give any away for "free".
LOL I never said it was a good strategy! In fact I will guarentee you that you will not do as well. UNLESS all you are worried about is net per unit, ha.

AND, not only could every "free" promo turn into a million free copies, but so could every single legitimatly purchased, not only that but they will probably be better quality TOO!

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If you are putting out acapellas I am assuming that you would like it to be mashed or remixed. Never in my life have I heard of an acapella being straight up playd in a club, on the radio, in a car or in, in an ipod, or wherever else. Ive never heard of some underground basement scene where people are partying to acapellas, or trading acapella mixtapes.


I don't know what clubs YOU'VE been too, but PLENTY of them play accapellas...and mix and match them with other things. But guess what? The club isn't selling a mix of the night at the front door, now are they?


word, so we agree then, they are for blending and mashing, what other perpouse would there be for them?

but selling them? I didnt say anything about selling them, Im trying to get to the bottom of what they are for. [reading the rest of this thread, obviously we wont get there]

like I said, no one plays an acapella straight up without mashing it, only when you are flipping the other record do you hear it, acapella

Blind DJs learning the words perhaps?

dude

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I have absolutly no problem with any company doing whatever they need to in order to protect their "property". But at the same time if they want me to promote it then they are gonig to have to make it sufficiently attractive for me to use it. If vinyl promos were all mono and low level I would put them straight in the trash.

This is a trade off. Thats why Im explaining what it is that I do with files, and giving feedback on if I will even use them.

DJJOHNNYM, let me ask you, do you have a problem with any of these?

a. WhiteLabels become unlocked several months after the release date.
b. unlocked WhiteLabels are placed on a mirror site several months after the release date.
c. WhiteLabels are able to be edited with a WL editing application that also rips to the WL format.
d. WL are "unlocked", but watermarked with a user code that would end your privilege to use the service if leaked.

DJJOHNNYM, if WL were 32k mono when played in SSL would you suggest something better?



cmon g, you arnt going to answer my questions.......

Quote:

All you're saying is I want my file a certain way , but I'm telling you the shit is free....you really shouldn't have anything to complain about...



for petes sake, how many times do I have to type out "I am not making a complaint, I am making a FEATURE SUGGESTION you see that whole section of this site over there entitled FEATURE SUGGESTION???? what I am talking about is equal to most of the items over there. otherwise it would be called the "complaints"

....but go ahead and ask your own set???? lame stud, lame


Quote:

But let's flip it real quick...

1.) How much would you be willing to PAY SERATO to have these files unlocked?

2.) Let's take it a step further, how much do you TRUST your fellow Serato DJ's to not distribute the unlocked files? Or make sure they don't wind up on ANYBODY'S P2P NETWORK?


1.) I would pay $1.00 each as a base price + $0.20 for 320 (or +$0.50 for wav/aif) unlocked meaning only the (c)(p) restrictions, and not any of the other "promo restrictions". Thats if I want them for my own personal entertainement as well. so about $1.50 But, if you want me to aid in your marketing then knock that dollar off and I will go along with more restrictions. And I will go half on the money you save by only making digital copies, and not pressing vinyl for me. That knocks it back down to 0 or less.

so between $1.50 and less than $0.

in all reality you would have to pay me to even bother DLing most of those tracks, and a hell of allot more money to play them

2.) No, I dont trust any of them to not share. BUT I dont expect the protection to stop any of them ether, not one (save the most backward case) will be stopped from striping the protection with relative ease.




Quote:

Let's really freshen it up...

Would you be willing to subscribe to Serato/Rane's record pool where they send you the files, WATERMARKED, and then, say that if they found a file that they sent YOU on a P2P network, that not only would you be kicked out of the Pool, but Mandatory Copyright infringement charges would be filed against you?

Would you PAY to take that chance?



yes absolutly! I might like to be given a warning first for dealing with cases where my files could be stolen or misused by someone other then myself. but yes, that is an exellent SUGGESTION DJJOHNNYM, great!!!

oh look that was point d., the questions you skipped. LOL


DJJOHNNYM, let me ask you again, do you have a problem with any of these?

a. WhiteLabels become unlocked several months after the release date.
b. unlocked WhiteLabels are placed on a mirror site several months after the release date.
c. WhiteLabels are able to be edited with a WL editing application that also rips to the WL format.
d. WL are "unlocked", but watermarked with a user code that would end your privilege to use the service if leaked.

Any of these would be good for me, I especially think d. is a good answer. And I would pay a nice initiation fee to regester and facilitate. I would even be willing to pay a larger deposit, say $100 to be forfite in the case of breaking the rules. + it could be combined with the others (maybe its already in effect, hmmm)

But my favorite is c. I think it would not only satisfy the most people but also be a net gain for riaa. And a would pay at least $100 for it.

I would be good with a. but I think nearly the same thing is acheaved with b., less r&d.

what do you think DJJOHNNYM?????????????
dj disturbed 7:09 PM - 25 January, 2007
Yawn........ lost me mid way through the deff's of Free
AKIEM 7:17 PM - 25 January, 2007
Quote:
Yawn........ lost me mid way through the deff's of Free


thanks for the feedback!
mikep 7:30 PM - 25 January, 2007
Now kids, settle down....

People have been asking for a record pool and they have done what they can based on agreements with record companies to "protect" their files from free floating out there in the world. These are promo copies to be played by DJ's to increase exposure of songs and artists with the hope of generating sales.
For the DJ it could be considered a "ty before you buy" type of thing. If you like a joint enough to give it good rotation and want to remix etc. then it's worth buying the version(s) that work for you as they are available.
(remember that for most of us creating a remix version without permission is illegal anyway.) Though I understand wanting to edit to make some songs more user friendly for mixing.
I also understand them making it so that the high quality version only plays through ssl... it's their product and that's one way to help insure it is being played as intended - by working DJ's, specifically working DJ's using ssl.

This thread should be about people's opinions, questions and requests about the added value this free service give to ssl.
It has turned into a sniping back and forth. Some of you kids should be put into timeout until you can play nice...

Can't you just say I like this or I'd like it if you could do this, or put it as a question to the Rane/Serato team asking about your interest in editing etc?
Instead you're calling each other names for a different opinion or having a different understanding of what the WL offering is about.
Let's take a deep breath and act like professionals.
Daim 7:32 PM - 25 January, 2007
someone disable the quoting feature please :p
AKIEM 7:32 PM - 25 January, 2007
Quote:

Hell, I stay on LimeWire ALL DAY..lol...No shame here...BUT that's just it...They don't want to take the chance of someone like ME, who doesn't have Serato YET, going to that FREE POOL and downloading some shit, and then sharing it. The plan works great.


how about being able to preview tracks but only dl if you are a registered user?

but here is a hint: Quit Fucking Stealing Shit.
The problem is that YOU are stealing shit, not that it is easily stolen!


Quote:

As for CD singles here, I see Acapella versions all day, everyday on CD singles in RECORD STORES...Again, we're not talking album versions, but CD singles. I don't buy music at Walmart.


and those are for the blind people who want to learn the words? LOL
I guess blind people have a preference for rap and dance music?
Pete Moss 10:01 PM - 25 January, 2007
If people don't like the Whitelabel stuff, I would like to say...

YOU'VE LIVED WITHOUT IT THIS LONG!!!!! If you don't like it, don't use it. I think too many people are being ungrateful; I wouldn't play most of these tracks outside of Serato anyway.

Those who bitch can go elsewhere and get the tracks. Deal with it. Serato has tried to do something nice for us and I can't believe we're using THEIR resources to complain about it.
djaction 10:03 PM - 25 January, 2007
This 80's Pop band that sung Wake Me Up Before You Go Go..
djaction 10:04 PM - 25 January, 2007
^^grammar police are gonna get me for that one.. but I anxiously await the correct answer
sweetL 10:11 PM - 25 January, 2007
wow.

summary for late-joiners.

johnnym 'personally im just glad to have it free'

nik39 'its great that its free, but itd be nice if i could get actual mp3s for them. i dont want to do illegal sharing, but i might want to burn a cd with them, or decide to play with pcdj (he didnt say this) that night, and pcdj wont know what to do with a .wl file'

johnnym 'i think youre being ungrateful'

nik39 'im not being ungrateful, itd just make things like remixes and mashups easier'

akiem 'how about if after the release of a track, a .wl promo is available as an mp3 download'

nik39 'sounds good. id pay to be able to get a quality set of mp3s early as the .wl's come out tho'

.....

everythin else is just waffle because people arent listening.

============================

personally, dead grateful for .wl, but would definately pay for a quality mp3 service where i can get acapellas, remixes, radio edits etc - and be able to do what i like with the mp3s. if they were watermarked, thats fine - im not going to p2p with them.
CMOS 10:16 PM - 25 January, 2007
tastes great.............less filling.
nik39 10:21 PM - 25 January, 2007
settL, lol. You lef a couple of important points, but hey... with threads like this one scratchlive.net <- click, what can we say, right?
nik39 10:22 PM - 25 January, 2007
left out, I meant.
Matt G 10:58 PM - 25 January, 2007
This thread has got too big for me to keep up with, but I did notice this one thing:

Quote:
36. without cost, payment, or charge.

that does not describe WLs because if you do not own SSL then you can not use WLs, but if you purchase SSL then you can use SSL. you must purchase in order to use.


Technically you don't need to personally own SSL. You could have a laptop with SSL installed and play out at clubs that have SL1s or 57s and you could play Whitelabel.net tracks at those clubs just fine without ever having purchased SSL for yourself.

PS could we try and keep this friendly. Nik39, calling anyone an idiot doesn't help keep the tone of the discussion positive.

PPS I wrote some thoughts on the DRM issue over here: [www.scratchlive.net] There will be more to be said on the subject in the future, and hopefully some of it will make people here happier.
AKIEM 10:58 PM - 25 January, 2007
cmon Pete you could paste this on EVERY SINGLE thread in the FEATURE SUGGESTION area.

Quote:

YOU'VE LIVED WITHOUT IT THIS LONG!!!!! If you don't like it, don't use it. I think too many people are being ungrateful; I wouldn't play most of these tracks outside of Serato anyway.

Those who bitch can go elsewhere and get the tracks. Deal with it. Serato has tried to do something nice for us and I can't believe we're using THEIR resources to complain about it.


I dont think it is ungreatful to suggest an improvement.

Me, Im very greatful for the entire SSL+WL system. And I do think that it can be improved.

also: I dont think they are doing it to be "nice", I think that it is a "nice" addition to the system. I think they are doing it to improve their product.

also, I like WL, I just think I would like it more if.......

AND I thank them all the freaking time!!
nik39 11:15 PM - 25 January, 2007
Matt, I have already clarified that I didnt mean to call JohnnyM an idiot.
AKIEM 1:11 AM - 26 January, 2007
well since Ive already got my shirt off all crazy, I dont care who steps in now. Ive got to set it off with Matt too!! rrrrrgggaaaahh!

Quote:
This thread has got too big for me to keep up with, but I did notice this one thing:

Quote:
36. without cost, payment, or charge.

that does not describe WLs because if you do not own SSL then you can not use WLs, but if you purchase SSL then you can use SSL. you must purchase in order to use.


Technically you don't need to personally own SSL. You could have a laptop with SSL installed and play out at clubs that have SL1s or 57s and you could play Whitelabel.net tracks at those clubs just fine without ever having purchased SSL for yourself.


ah, maybe not you yourself, but someone has to buy it. So there is a cost, or payment made, just not by you.

Its like when you barrow your home boys car to take some chick to the movies and try to get some cut in the back seat at about 2am or something like that. Uh, your homie still paid for the car, and you dont get to keep it forever. And that would be even if you are the one that brought the weed, beers, and jimhats that your cousin did in fact give you for free earlier that day. And dont try to keep the car two long because your home boy is going to call your house and talk to you wife. Then she will go pick him up and they will drive around together looking for your ass.

Quote:

PPS I wrote some thoughts on the DRM issue over here: [www.scratchlive.net] There will be more to be said on the subject in the future, and hopefully some of it will make people here happier.


cool thanks for pointing that out because now Im going over there to mangle that thread too, rrrrggggggaaaahhhhrr!!

hey Matt, thanks for expanding the SSL system to include WL, I appreciate it greatly. No lie, when I get to NZ, I dont care if you are all ugly and male, Im going to hug and kiss each and everyone of the staff. Probably bake a big cake, and buy everyone a round of top shelf shit at the bar.

check
www.scratchlive.net
dave 2:25 AM - 26 January, 2007
Personally I view Whitelabel.net as free for customers who bought Scratch LIVE before it was announced. Surely getting something extra that you didn't pay for initially counts as free?

And yes, like Scratch LIVE, there is room for improvement, so please, keep the feedback coming.

AKIEM - can you bring MF DOOM with you?
DJJOHNNYM 3:54 AM - 26 January, 2007
Man, y'all lucky I'm at work and can't respond yet...

Wait till I get home!

Did Nik apologize yet?
matt212 5:17 AM - 26 January, 2007
This thread is now quote restricted.
dj disturbed 5:19 AM - 26 January, 2007
Quote:
This thread is now quote restricted.



riiiiiiiiiiiiiight
matt212 5:50 AM - 26 January, 2007
lol
AKIEM 7:09 AM - 26 January, 2007
Quote:
Personally I view Whitelabel.net as free for customers who bought Scratch LIVE before it was announced. Surely getting something extra that you didn't pay for initially counts as free?

And yes, like Scratch LIVE, there is room for improvement, so please, keep the feedback coming.

AKIEM - can you bring MF DOOM with you?

I can tell you that it would be far from free, very far.
pm me for the real talk g

okay, I will keep complai... er, um, keep suggesting crap.

well, is the value determined by the state of the system as it changes, or only at the point of purchase?

not that it maters because it was only a straw man argument to begin with
sweetL 7:35 AM - 26 January, 2007
Quote:
settL, lol. You lef a couple of important points, but hey... with threads like this one scratchlive.net <- click, what can we say, right?

yeah, i wasnt trying to be rude... apologies if it came off that way
MusicMeister 2:00 PM - 26 January, 2007
Quote:
not that it maters because it was only a straw man argument to begin with


Wow.... it's been a while since I've heard that reference...
dave 8:00 PM - 26 January, 2007
Quote:
well, is the value determined by the state of the system as it changes, or only at the point of purchase?

...

Quote:
Surely getting something extra that you didn't pay for initially counts as free?

:)

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I can tell you that it would be far from free, very far.
pm me for the real talk g

Yeah, cool, PMed. I think we'll have to agree to disagree on this one but I'm looking forward to hearing more of your viewpoint.

I'd love to chat in person, sort out that trip to NZ would ya!
AKIEM 12:29 AM - 27 January, 2007
howbout this: for the sake of this argument, this thread only, the value of the system increases? and for everything else it is free?

honestly Im not explaining to people about the value increasing over time and so on "...and you get the updates and promos for free" is what I tell people, when I get them to switch and go pay cash money the very next day :)

hope this crazy thread brought out some ideas

unlock after time, or rip to WL format and edit

thank you, yes
DJJOHNNYM 2:43 AM - 27 January, 2007
Man Listen, I haven't finished commenting yet, I'll be back sometime in 24 hours....

Stay tuned.
Julls 8:12 AM - 27 January, 2007
Quote:
I use Julls when we play gigs together.

That poor guy ;)

For reals! I got used...hahahaha!
nik39 7:15 PM - 27 January, 2007
Quote:
Quote:
As for CD singles here, I see Acapella versions all day, everyday on CD singles in RECORD STORES...Again, we're not talking album versions, but CD singles. I don't buy music at Walmart.

Aight.. I'll have to go out anyway now, on the way... I'll check the local recordstore and tell you how many cd singles from the top40 have acc. versions over here. It would surprise me if the results would be very differen to the results you guys in the states have. Later.

I went to a big CD store today, the results Jonny:

Top 25: No, none, nada, nothing, keins, niente... acapella version on any CD. The closest version was an acoustic version.

I digged harder and about 50cds later I found one another 5 later I found another, that was from Fergie and from Chingy. Other than that... no acapella.

That says it all I'd say (assuming you guys in the states dont have totally different results). The average listener (aka not DJ) is not supposed to get acapella versions.
DJJOHNNYM 12:53 PM - 30 January, 2007
For all of you who THINK I've given up on this thread....

THINK AGAIN!

My JOB has just decided to make me work for a living for the time being, and I haven't had the time necessary to pick each and every quote in this thread apart yet....

but STAY TUNED....

I'll be back....

lmao! @ y'all thinking I GAVE UP....

Stop playin...
DJJOHNNYM 12:53 PM - 30 January, 2007
Imagine that...I thought I got PAID to post....geesh.
Monk-A 1:08 PM - 30 January, 2007
Johnny the point you're missing and the one akiem and everyone else has been trying to make isthat by limiting the files to wl they are actually restricting their use to the DJ's who only play a record and then play the enxt . Those that play their own mixes, edits, use Serato in conjucntion with other Programs like Abelton are limited to not using the WL files.

Not everyone is a play one record then the next DJ.

This thread has turned into the most turgid stupid thing i've read in years... Nik just walk away and leave this thread to die.
nik39 1:11 PM - 30 January, 2007
I'm already gone ;)
DJJOHNNYM 1:44 PM - 30 January, 2007
Monk-A, I'm not missing any points, and will point that out later, (I don't even have time to read errything you just said) I'm just saying, I haven't had time to get back at you guys in this thread...

And NIK, you're not dead until I kill you...lol.

Stay tuned.
nik39 1:50 PM - 30 January, 2007
lol :) I meant I've walked away already... not that I passed away ;)
AKIEM 3:19 PM - 30 January, 2007
I got some time, Im waiting... hmmmm hm hmmmm, laaa la laaaa...
Monk-A 3:31 PM - 30 January, 2007
Johnny you ARE missing the point, you seem to think that free equates no reason to complain, or even offer constructive cirticism which just isn't true. Demanding something isn't on but suggestions to improve something is, and is openly encouraged on this site - Beta testing anyone? Features Forum?

Hence it's all the more reason to offer up thougths and comment son ways to improve the product and or make changes.

The fact not everyone DJ's int he same way means it's even more important that Serato get the feedback form all quarters, and saying that a file they provide us with is mainly unusable for me is reasonable feedback imo, even more so when people are offering a suggestions in how to make it a more comlpete and arounded product butmeeeeeh! whatever.
deepdjdanny 6:34 PM - 30 January, 2007
Or... how about... pay me & send me the wavefiles with artwork & info & the video on DATA-DVD.
DJJOHNNYM 8:46 PM - 30 January, 2007
WTF @ Monk, I'm not missing the point! I haven't had time to RESPOND! And I'm only writing this because someone came into my PM and had the nerve to tell me I GAVE UP! (On this thread) LMAO.

Stop playin...and no it wasn't Thundercat.
nik39 8:48 PM - 30 January, 2007
Why y'all starring at me?! It wasnt me neither!
AKIEM 9:30 PM - 30 January, 2007
cmon DJJOHNNYM, all these nonresponses you could have answered with something.

try answering the questions you skipped first
DJJOHNNYM 9:37 PM - 30 January, 2007
Man Listen,

I am hitting my PC real RANDOMLY, but rest assured, that I will tackle each and every comment posed to me....I didn't forget.

TRUST me on that...

Somebody ratted me out that I spend all day postin' with y'all...
AKIEM 9:42 PM - 30 January, 2007
how bout just answer this since you skipped it
Quote:
DJJOHNNYM, let me ask you, do you have a problem with any of these?

a. WhiteLabels become unlocked several months after the release date.
b. unlocked WhiteLabels are placed on a mirror site several months after the release date.
c. WhiteLabels are able to be edited with a WL editing application that also rips to the WL format.
d. WL are "unlocked", but watermarked with a user code that would end your privilege to use the service if leaked.

DJJOHNNYM, if WL were 32k mono when played in SSL would you suggest something better?
DJJOHNNYM 9:46 PM - 30 January, 2007
Look AKIEM, I didn't SKIP anything...I've got 5 Windows open on my PC at work and am on hold with somebody's lazy azz helpdesk...

I got you and EVERYONE ELSE here covered....

I like how you guys look forward to my opinion though!
AKIEM 9:53 PM - 30 January, 2007
nah g its a chess game,

but you did skip those questions, flat out ignored them and went on to ask your own instead of answere em.
Monk-A 8:30 AM - 31 January, 2007
Quote:
WTF @ Monk, I'm not missing the point! I haven't had time to RESPOND! And I'm only writing this because someone came into my PM and had the nerve to tell me I GAVE UP! (On this thread) LMAO.

Stop playin...and no it wasn't Thundercat.


Fella, you missing the point has ntohign to do with how long it takes you to respond it, it does however have everything to do with HOW you respond though. ;)
Steve W 11:35 AM - 31 January, 2007
I would tend to agree with AKIEM on this one. Someone pays for Scratch LIVE and effectively built into the purchase price are various portions that pay for warranty repairs, phone support etc. Of course you get what you pay for, so if you see cheap products with flashy advertisements you know they're skimping somewhere that might not bite you until you get ground loop hum at your gig.

When it comes to whitelabel tracks there is also a transaction at work, even if it does not involve money. The DJ gets pre-release tracks, and in return the label gets their tracks promoted. On its own, that might not be enough for a label. However it is worth noting that the promotional department of any label has a finite budget to work with, so it is crucial that they "cut their losses" as soon as possible in the lifetime of a release. If using whitelabel helps a label to do that, then it becomes a worthwhile transaction. So to cut a long story short, whitelabel may need to place more emphasis on gathering feedback from DJs (as painlessly as possible) before certain labels will feel comfortable uploading large volumes of music.
Jeca 12:19 PM - 31 January, 2007
Quote:

So to cut a long story short, whitelabel may need to place more emphasis on gathering feedback from DJs (as painlessly as possible) before certain labels will feel comfortable uploading large volumes of music.


I´m getting promos from different labels. They all want a feedback. Thats for sure the keynote of a record pool.

I´ve seen different systems. But in my eyes the best system, that makes few work: You click the track for prelistening. After that you make some short assessment of 4 or 5 criteria and perhaps a short somment.
After that you´re able to download.

If that does not work you could make a bonus-system. Restrict the maximum downloadable tracks per month. Everyone who´s bothering in giving feedback gets points to his account and is able to download more tracks than the others who are giving no feedback.
Monk-A 12:24 PM - 31 January, 2007
Quote:
Quote:

So to cut a long story short, whitelabel may need to place more emphasis on gathering feedback from DJs (as painlessly as possible) before certain labels will feel comfortable uploading large volumes of music.


I´m getting promos from different labels. They all want a feedback. Thats for sure the keynote of a record pool.

I´ve seen different systems. But in my eyes the best system, that makes few work: You click the track for prelistening. After that you make some short assessment of 4 or 5 criteria and perhaps a short somment.
After that you´re able to download.

If that does not work you could make a bonus-system. Restrict the maximum downloadable tracks per month. Everyone who´s bothering in giving feedback gets points to his account and is able to download more tracks than the others who are giving no feedback.


Thats a relativly painless program. I don't really download anythign unless i know thetrack, if ic an' hear it first i generally pass it buy until i catch it somewhere else anyway.
sixxx 3:40 PM - 31 January, 2007
I don't care about this thread anymore... but this is what I would like very much.

Steve, can I borrow your animated avatar for a day? It's awesome!


... and when I hear of whitelabel.. I can't help but think of "White Devil" in reference to Ace Ventura's When Nature Calls.

lol
DJJOHNNYM 4:13 PM - 31 January, 2007
Quote:
Quote:
WTF @ Monk, I'm not missing the point! I haven't had time to RESPOND! And I'm only writing this because someone came into my PM and had the nerve to tell me I GAVE UP! (On this thread) LMAO.

Stop playin...and no it wasn't Thundercat.


Fella, you missing the point has ntohign to do with how long it takes you to respond it, it does however have everything to do with HOW you respond though. ;)


Man Listen....

SHIT! I gotta go again!
NdB 4:53 PM - 31 January, 2007
Msut admit - I've only read about 15% of this thread - props to AKIEM tho for what must surely be the longest single post on the forum ever (although I'm sure nik39 will post a link to prove me wrong! ;) )

Just thought I'd chip in and express my surprise at all this bitchin' that's going on here. Personally I think this whitelabel.net is a f*kin brilliant idea.

The SL1 / 57 has served as the ultimate dongle for the software for years now, and it's being promoted to record companies as a good way to ensure your promos are going into the hands of real DJ's who might actually play the tracks and give them some promotion.

and for those moaning about editing the track - there's nothing I can't do with a whitelabel.net file that I can't do with a standard old stylee white label vinyl record (other than use it as a frisbee...)

If it wasn't that these files were locked down to a piece of hardware that pretty much identifies it's owner as a DJ the labels wouldn't even give this idea a second glance. They're here to make money at the end of the day - not to work hard producing tracks to then give them to any kid with an MP3 player.

This is NOT a free music for all screatch live users service, it's a PROMOTIONAL TOOL for RECORD LABELS. The upside for you as DJ's and SSL users is that you get access to these tracks without having to pay any fees.

The ability to fuck about with or unlock these tracks is not really in the intrests of the record labels. If you start doing that, they may as well just stick em on LimeWire themselves...

So - all I'm saying is just UNDERSTAND it for what it is - then take it or leave it. If you're happy to listen to the tracks, give a bit of feedback then play them out and promote them if you like them then all is good. That's what it's here for, that's what it does.

If you're looking for a service that gives you free music that you can stick on your IPOD, use as a sample source, mashup and reedit, toast bread, keep hot things hot and cold things cold, well, it doesn't do that. It's not a thermos. It's not a toaster. It's not a label-sponsored peer to peer music sharing network. It's a white label. a promo.

ok. rant over... NEXT....
Monk-A 5:10 PM - 31 January, 2007
Why do labels issue promo digital files via other sites? Because it reaches Club DJ's, Mashers; Mixtape DJ's and so on...and via that it gets to people. How many tracks have only broken AFTER they've been remixed or Mashed on the sly?


that means their product gets out to the public in many different forms: CLub, radio, mixtapes and so on. As a personal example I have three mix tapes on line, each mix was downloaded over 6,000 times and further to that played on radio stations around the world; and I'm not even that well known in the big scheme of things; - thats advertising you cannot buy at any cost record companies recognise that. So imagine what it can do in the hands of mainstream DJ's who use programs like Abelton and do tehir own re-edits. It's COMPLETELY in the Interst of the record labels to get it to mixtape tape DJ's and the such whetherthey USE Serato or not..

Quote:
and for those moaning about editing the track - there's nothing I can't do with a whitelabel.net file that I can't do with a standard old stylee white label vinyl record (other than use it as a frisbee...)


Again thats not true, you can't effect the files/vocals etc.. in the way you can using an advanced DAW/Wav Editor th way you can if you record in a record and edit it to how you need.

I agree that whitelabel is a great idea; but this company's (serato) reputation is built on an excellent product whith a development team that LISTENS to it's users. If you don't wnat those features in Whitelabel.net files fine, but other peopel do, if they want to give feed back and request somethign then whats the harm in that nd why do peopel have to get on their case about it?

I don't see anyone form Team Serato bitching? I see them listening and discussing it sensibly instea dof saying "Take it or Leave it"
DJJOHNNYM 5:23 PM - 31 January, 2007
ARRRRRHHHH! I can't stand skimmin! Somebody lock this thread until tomorrow!
Pete Moss 6:25 PM - 31 January, 2007
Back to topic, when can we expect to see new material and any changes on whitelabel.net
AKIEM 8:07 PM - 31 January, 2007
Quote:
Msut admit - I've only read about 15% of this thread - props to AKIEM tho for what must surely be the longest single post on the forum ever (although I'm sure nik39 will post a link to prove me wrong! ;) )

Ive written more for more important issues.
Quote:

Just thought I'd chip in and express my surprise at all this bitchin' that's going on here. Personally I think this whitelabel.net is a f*kin brilliant idea.


could you, or anyone quote this so called bitching, moaning, complaining???

Quote:

The SL1 / 57 has served as the ultimate dongle for the software for years now, and it's being promoted to record companies as a good way to ensure your promos are going into the hands of real DJ's who might actually play the tracks and give them some promotion.

and for those moaning about editing the track - there's nothing I can't do with a whitelabel.net file that I can't do with a standard old stylee white label vinyl record (other than use it as a frisbee...)


right. that was a limitation of medium. a limitation that CD for example does not have, so its not about the format.

Quote:

If it wasn't that these files were locked down to a piece of hardware that pretty much identifies it's owner as a DJ the labels wouldn't even give this idea a second glance. They're here to make money at the end of the day - not to work hard producing tracks to then give them to any kid with an MP3 player.


thats not really the issue at hand ether, the only so called complaints about where it can be played is not about using them for entertainment, rather methods of organization and preparation

Quote:

This is NOT a free music for all screatch live users service, it's a PROMOTIONAL TOOL for RECORD LABELS. The upside for you as DJ's and SSL users is that you get access to these tracks without having to pay any fees.

The ability to fuck about with or unlock these tracks is not really in the intrests of the record labels. If you start doing that, they may as well just stick em on LimeWire themselves...


and what if the limitations make them useless in the first place? what would the point be?

Quote:

So - all I'm saying is just UNDERSTAND it for what it is - then take it or leave it. If you're happy to listen to the tracks, give a bit of feedback then play them out and promote them if you like them then all is good. That's what it's here for, that's what it does.

If you're looking for a service that gives you free music that you can stick on your IPOD, use as a sample source, mashup and reedit, toast bread, keep hot things hot and cold things cold, well, it doesn't do that. It's not a thermos. It's not a toaster. It's not a label-sponsored peer to peer music sharing network. It's a white label. a promo.

ok. rant over... NEXT....



or how about enhancing the system in a way that would satisfy the most people, the users, the labels, riaa, and Serato?


AND, the lock is so "unlockable" the ONLY people it will ever bother is the people who want to play by the rules in the first place.
DJJOHNNYM 8:18 PM - 31 January, 2007
LOL! Looks like somebody took the torch and is running with it! **can't wait until I get some time to chime in***
AKIEM 8:45 PM - 31 January, 2007
hey DJJOHNNYM, why dont you just anwere the quick questions I asked you?
nik39 8:45 PM - 31 January, 2007
NdB:
Quote:
and for those moaning about editing the track - there's nothing I can't do with a whitelabel.net file that I can't do with a standard old stylee white label vinyl record (other than use it as a frisbee...)

Two words... promo-cd's.

Quote:
If it wasn't that these files were locked down to a piece of hardware that pretty much identifies it's owner as a DJ the labels wouldn't even give this idea a second glance.

Why do you want to lock it down to a certain hardware? Lock it down to my person - watermark.
The way it is done right now, it doesnt take much effort to still rip the songs ... and put them to P2P. The criminals will find a way - for the honest ones this makes working with it hard.

Quote:
This is NOT a free music for all screatch live users service, it's a PROMOTIONAL TOOL for RECORD LABELS. The upside for you as DJ's and SSL users is that you get access to these tracks without having to pay any fees.

I wouldnt mind paying.


Monk-A:
Quote:
that means their product gets out to the public in many different forms: CLub, radio, mixtapes and so on. As a personal example I have three mix tapes on line, each mix was downloaded over 6,000 times and further to that played on radio stations around the world; and I'm not even that well known in the big scheme of things; - thats advertising you cannot buy at any cost record companies recognise that.

You forgot one important thing - did you really "promote" the song? This means... did anyone buy one of those songs (or transfer money to the record company/artist in any way (visiting live gig etc)) after listening to your mix? Are you sure that there are some people who wanted to buy the music but then decided not to because instead they downloaded your mix?

I mean in the end this has to be a win-win situation. If not then wl.net wont be a success. Make DJs unhappy - they wont use the service. Make the recordlabels unhappy - they wont promote their tracks through this service.
Steve W 9:08 PM - 31 January, 2007
Quote:
Why do labels issue promo digital files via other sites?

Because the promo departments feel like they have no alternative. And you can bet the release of those files has not been signed off at corporate level. So the promo guys are stuck in a legal limbo doing something that is a breach of their own corporate policies. BTW, I'm only talking about the majors here. The indies are far more at ease with electronic distribution.
DJJOHNNYM 10:12 PM - 31 January, 2007
Quote:
hey DJJOHNNYM, why dont you just anwere the quick questions I asked you?


Because I don't want to answer anything out of context.
AKIEM 10:16 PM - 31 January, 2007
new context:

DJJOHNNYM (or any one else), let me ask you, do you have a problem with any of these soluions to the problems that I have with WL?

a. WhiteLabels become unlocked several months after the release date.

b. unlocked WhiteLabels are placed on a mirror site several months after the release date.

c. WhiteLabels are able to be edited with a WL editing application that also rips to the WL format.
d. WL are "unlocked", but watermarked with a user code that would end your privilege to use the service if leaked.


DJJOHNNYM, if WL were 32k mono when played in SSL would you suggest something better?
Thundercat 12:50 AM - 1 February, 2007
I would not have a problem with a, b, c or d. I would not have a problem if a, b, c or d never happend. If WL files were 32k mono in SSL I would not use WL files. I use them now. The quality is much better than that of other digital pools (when played through SSL). However, I do keep a copy of the files from the other pools as well. Space isn't an issue and my library is organized enough that it isn't a hastle dealing with multiple copies of the same track.
Monk-A 9:44 AM - 1 February, 2007
Quote:
Quote:
Why do labels issue promo digital files via other sites?

Because the promo departments feel like they have no alternative. And you can bet the release of those files has not been signed off at corporate level. So the promo guys are stuck in a legal limbo doing something that is a breach of their own corporate policies. BTW, I'm only talking about the majors here. The indies are far more at ease with electronic distribution.


Not really, they have realised that the cost of distributing a Digital file to dj's is a LOT lower then Pressing WAX/CD'S and doing the mail outs and can reach more target DJ's. Sites like Digital Wax and White noise are NO different to companies likes zzzonked who used to handle Promo's and premarketing for a lot of the majors and indiependants in the UK.

As for it being signed off at corporate level? well i know it is at sony.

Thats also why Small indies are much more at ease iwth it because it puts us on a level playing field with the majors we cna hit the same people for the same effort and cost.
Monk-A 9:48 AM - 1 February, 2007
Quote:
Monk-A:
Quote:
that means their product gets out to the public in many different forms: CLub, radio, mixtapes and so on. As a personal example I have three mix tapes on line, each mix was downloaded over 6,000 times and further to that played on radio stations around the world; and I'm not even that well known in the big scheme of things; - thats advertising you cannot buy at any cost record companies recognise that.

You forgot one important thing - did you really "promote" the song? This means... did anyone buy one of those songs (or transfer money to the record company/artist in any way (visiting live gig etc)) after listening to your mix? Are you sure that there are some people who wanted to buy the music but then decided not to because instead they downloaded your mix?

I mean in the end this has to be a win-win situation. If not then wl.net wont be a success. Make DJs unhappy - they wont use the service. Make the recordlabels unhappy - they wont promote their tracks through this service.


Well my own example is not about promoting the song it is about how easy it is for a company to get a taster of their product to a large group of peoplevia DJs.

I dont know how many people went on to buy stuff i used in my mixes, i've only got the stats from my own webspace, but my point is if you restricted me to only using my files in serato those mixes wouldn't ever have been made and 6000 people may not have heard certain things that are in my mixes.
nik39 11:33 AM - 1 February, 2007
Gotcha.
AKIEM 12:44 PM - 1 February, 2007
Quote:
If WL files were 32k mono in SSL I would not use WL files. I use them now.


Thundercat, might you let it be known that you are not using WL because of the low quality? Might you suggest that the quality be boosted to a level where you could use WL?
Thundercat 12:54 PM - 1 February, 2007
I thought about including a statement to that effect in my previous response, but I could not definitively decide how I would react. I would probably just keep moving along and look for another source for my tunes. I would likely say "that stinks" or "you get what you pay for" out loud to my monitor but not bother posting.
AKIEM 8:18 PM - 1 February, 2007
even if you knew that your input could effect a decision to release better quality files?





ot statement:
I never vote, never in my life.
but I still say my piece.
Thundercat 9:22 PM - 1 February, 2007
If there was a suggestion area (like the SSL one here) or a sticky poll, I would probably voice my support for better quality files given your hypothetical sutuation.

And before you say it, I also understand the correlation to your question in that the ability to manipulate the given media is just as important as the sound quality to some users. It just isn't important to me so it comes across to me like unnecessary static.

re: ot:
I vote anually as well as various board of education polls.
AKIEM 10:01 PM - 1 February, 2007
if its only "unnecessary static" why bother complaining about it in the first place? just ignore it, howbout that?
DJJOHNNYM 10:28 PM - 1 February, 2007
Ok, I'm here for a min...lemmie catch up.
Thundercat 10:35 PM - 1 February, 2007
Quote:
if its only "unnecessary static" why bother complaining about it in the first place? just ignore it, howbout that?


Because it keeps sitting here on my periphary gettin' at me like Carol Ann. So I gotta open the closet and toss some numbered tennis ball in...Now you're droppin 'em back at me covered in some goo!

On the real, I'm trying to get it all tuned in so it doesn't seem like static any more and is something that I either sit and watch or change the channel. Haven't decided yet. :-)
DJJOHNNYM 11:00 PM - 1 February, 2007
Quote:


DJJOHNNYM, let me ask you, do you have a problem with any of these?


I will answer these from the point of a hungry DJ, and also as an Artist who may have created the song.

Quote:

a. WhiteLabels become unlocked several months after the release date.


DJ - No! Why? Because it's free shit!
Artist! - Yes, because you didn't pay me, I wanted you to BUY IT.

Quote:

b. unlocked WhiteLabels are placed on a mirror site several months after the release date.


DJ - NO! Why? Because I like free shit!
Artist - YES, because you didn't PAY ME for my shit! I wanted you to BUY IT!.

Quote:

c. WhiteLabels are able to be edited with a WL editing application that also rips to the WL format.


DJ - No, because I like FREE SHIT!
Artist - YES, because you didn't ask me PERMISSION to remix myshit, HELL you didn't even BUY IT.

Quote:

d. WL are "unlocked", but watermarked with a user code that would end your privilege to use the service if leaked.


DJ - No because sometimes I hook my DJ buddies up with shit, and I can't speak for their file sharing morals, if it can be traced back to me

Artist- Yes, and no. - Yes, because it's an attempt at somebody trying to make sure my song is secure, but NO because someone will eventually develop a hack and, there you again have people gettin my shit for FREE.

Quote:

DJJOHNNYM, if WL were 32k mono when played in SSL would you suggest something better?


I wouldn't play a song in 32k mono. I would play it in a player designed to play the song at the right frequency.
DJJOHNNYM 11:11 PM - 1 February, 2007
Quote:
No, it was 'you' as 'you in general'. You = anyone who does that. So I dont owe you anything ;)


*Fake azz apology***
DJJOHNNYM 12:08 AM - 2 February, 2007
Quote:
fore the sake of argument only because I dont really expect reasonable responses anymore


What kinda higher than thou disclaimer is that?

***ignores that line****

Quote:
Yes I believe that Serato thought out the situation, but I do not believe that they are infallible GODs ether, otherwise it would be perfect from inception, but its not. And thats why they need feedback from users.

I, as the user I am giving suggestion and feedback about what would make the product better. I am not demanding, that it be done my way, Im not even demanding that I be listened to, I humbly set these words out for the Serato proto-gods to read at their own leisure or not at all. I would hope that they take my words into account but expect it not. It would be really cool if they would implement any of my suggestions (as they may have in the past) but I demand it not.


Ok, that's reasonable, but still, Don't you think they locked the files for a REASON?

Quote:

I do not expect, demand, or feel entitled to have any of the great suggestions that I have made so far ever be implemented. period end of story.


LOL at you assuming your suggestions are "Great"...carry on.

Quote:

also, this is not in any way shape or for connected to the "price". In other words, I would be making the exact same suggestion having paid $1000 for it or if they gave it to me and paid me to use it as endorsement.
Having paid a 1000.00 for what Serato? Or to have access to the pool.

If for Serato, your suggestions are still for a product that they STILL offer for free, and instead of 1 year turnaround @ the savings of 50.00 bucks a month for a Pool you don't have to PAY for, it'll be 2 years instead. If the suggestions were for a POOL you PAY for, chances are you wouldn't be part of that pool in the FIRST place to have files that you can't use the way you WANT because you "paid" for them.


Quote:
so the mater of any part of it, or entirely "free" has absolutely no baring here, none.


Sure it does! From the RECORD COMPANIES POV! It's FREE SHIT! They're already doing you a FAVOR, by giving you access (IF YOU WANT IT), all they ask, is that you use Serato!

Quote:

the "price tag" is not part of my reason for wanting it to work a certain way. I just happen to believe that WLs are not entirely "free" and for the sake of argument


But that's the POINT! It IS A FREE service, you can basically take it, or leave it. It does not change the standing you have with the Serato product you bought.

Quote:
Free

5. exempt from external authority, interference, restriction, etc., as a person or one's will, thought, choice, action, etc.; independent; unrestricted.

that does not describe WLs

6. able to do something at will; at liberty: free to choose.

that does not describe WLs

9. exempt or released from something specified that controls, restrains, burdens, etc. (usually fol. by from or of): free from worry; free of taxes.

that does not describe WLs

11. provided without, or not subject to, a charge or payment: free parking; a free sample.


LOL! That's funny! You put the meaning as if it is listed AS A TRANSITIVE VERB....Nice try dawg!

Here's the definition as an ADJECTIVE, the way it's SUPPOSED TO BE LISTED...

The REAL meaning is: generally with the meaning of either "without cost", or "unconstrained, not imprisoned".

Quote:

that does not describe WLs because if you do not own SSL then you can not use WLs,


That is INCORRECT! You can download the files, and listen to them at the lower bitrate and STILL decide if you want to purchase the music.

Quote:

but if you purchase SSL then you can use SSL. you must purchase in order to use.


That is also incorrect. You may download the files, and NOT EVEN OWN SERATO, and bring it to a venue that has Serato installed, and "USE" the files. Where in that equation did YOU purchase Serato?


Quote:
the labels expect that the DJ will promote the song, not simply enjoy it for personal use. And Searato expects that WLs will raise the value of the SSL system. Both, I would consider return, or reward. Labels are not just being "nice"
. But it is STILL of no "cost" to you.


Quote:
dude thats a straw man. the only one who keeps bringing up the price is you. its moot.


It's moot to YOU, but that's the bargaining chip. Would you PAY for locked file? Chances are no....so "FREE" is a great marketing tool.

Quote:

yeah that would be a great deal, but no one in this thread, and seldom on this board are people having problems with the price.


So why complain about free shit?

Quote:
I dont have a problem with limitations on promos, but if the limitation causes it to not be used in the first place then whats the point?

Why can't you use the file "AS IS" ? You only desire the ability to manipulate it a certain way, which opens it up to possible file sharing, in it's altered state.

Quote:
um, I dont think anyone would "boycott" WL ether, nore has anyone suggested that anyone would, for any reason. so bringing that up, then knocking it down is pretty meaningless.
Then why are you suggesting that the files could be "useless", or "unusable" or in your own words and what if the limitations make them useless in the first place? what would the point be? Why are you inferring that they are useless?

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cmon guy, if you are going to argue against my position then you have to make a little effort to know what my position is!

I will find it only a little anoying when going over my set on my ipod. Altho this is not a major concern for me, I can understand how it would be for other people

My issues are not being able to edit the files, and not being able to back them up. It is emparitive without reservation that I be able to back up my system and my files by several means. And as an artist I need the freedom to edit my records.


But these aren't your RECORDS to edit. I understand the BACKUP ISSUE, but all that other stuff doesn't fly.

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Out of the seven to eight thousand records I have now, maybe twelve thousand that I have owned, Ive probably purchased less then ten promos. I purchased them because they are rare and oop. If you want to call that "getting over" be my guest, if you ask me who ever got it for free might have gotten over by selling it. But almost all the promos that Ive gotten have been given to me for "free".


Well if FREE means you PAY are record pool to SEND you stuff, then they need to update the definition for FREE...again.

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I quit excepting promos years ago before owning SSL even, because it was too much of a hassle for me. Most of them were worthless crap and I had way too many records already. I found it more efficient and effective to just purchase the records that I needed because trying to extract the one record out of thirty that I wanted just became too much trouble. Besides my sets have always been mostly "classic"

if you call that "getting over" fine, whatever.



Gee, you're a day late, and a dollar short. I've never been part of a record "Pool", some labels sent me free shit, but most things I just go out and buy "when necessary". And even then, you can't tell me that the record stores MADE IT THEIR BUSINESS not to put a PROMO record in your hand that you BOUGHT.
I find it hard to believe that you would turn down that hot new shit by Jeezy and the store only had the promo copy left...and offered to sell it to you, and you'd turn it down, cuz it would be breaking the rules of the promo game.

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no, you are not suposed to sell it, but thats not at issue here. no one is asking to be able to sell it. no one is asking to be able to p2p it. no one is asking to use it for personal entertainment.

all the suggestions have been about using it to work with.



But again, your desire to have the files a certain way, exposes them to duplication and filesharing. Nobody wants a 32k file.

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cmon g, you keep arguing against things that I havnt, nore has anyone else said.

like I said before: when I used vinyl I wished that I could have made my own edits and pressed my own shit, I considered cutting dublates but never got to it. when the vestax vinyl cutter came out I wanted to buy one bout didnt have the money and had no desire to go into that buisiness. when cdjs came out I got some for shows, but didnt like them for clubs and parties. I ended up using some real white label DJ joints from time to time. But now, I have SSL and very excited to be edeting cuts. This is just he beguining of the "edit era" trust me.

As far as remixes, I was doing those way back when I had to mix down to cassette, couldnt play those at the club.

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And WHY didn't you play cassettes at the club? Could it be the QUALITY or not an available Cassette player? Or could it be "Damn, HE AIN'T NO DJ, he's playing a TAPE! These particular record companies OBVIOUSLY don't want you editing their files. That's their perogative.

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okay then, what was the perpouse, enlighten me because I dont know why or when it becase common paractice.

But I do know that anyone with any common knowledge understands pretty clearly that putting out acapellas makes it possible for people to remix and mash it up. If they dont want to let it happen then they shouldnt put them out. period, end of story.


Ok, let's say they release accapellas, so you can remix, extend the song to promote it. The TRICK is that they want you to play it through SERATO! lol.

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LOL for blind people to learn the words????????? cmon g, if your point dont make any freaking sense at all, just give it up. where are all the acapella CDs? why only 12s? dont tell me that possibly blind people prefer the format over CD just like DJs? LOL


I don't know about you guys but I see acapella version on CD's around my way all day, every day.

I'll be back for more later...
sixxx 12:10 AM - 2 February, 2007
I quote. You quote. I quote. You quote. I quote. It's your turn now.



go!
s42000 12:15 AM - 2 February, 2007
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I quote. You quote. I quote. You quote. I quote. It's your turn now.



go!

Right back at cha!
sixxx 12:42 AM - 2 February, 2007
Quote:
Quote:
I quote. You quote. I quote. You quote. I quote. It's your turn now.



go!

Right back at cha!


Your turn! :P
m0rph! 2:30 AM - 2 February, 2007
*unsubscribes from this discussion

:-(
Sam 6:13 AM - 2 February, 2007
wow, what a read.
But I did make a few notes in my book of things to do
... make a way of paying for the files later and 'unlocking' them .... make a away to remix/edit whitelabel.net files....

Thanks for all the feedback, we appreciate it.
J_Static 11:07 PM - 2 February, 2007
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I can't help but think of "White Devil" in reference to Ace Ventura's When Nature Calls.

lol


SHIKAKA!!!!!

Sixx your hella funny for remembering that movie......
CarbonDJ 3:50 AM - 3 February, 2007
Sammy boy, whitelabel.net was supposed to launch in January, what gives?? (I know you guys are busy, just wanna keep the pressure on...I'm getting anxious!) :)
AKIEM 8:41 PM - 3 February, 2007
I dont care if people are laughing at me for continuing in this thread, and the excessive quoting,

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Im having fun with this


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fore the sake of argument only because I dont really expect reasonable responses anymore


What kinda higher than thou disclaimer is that?

***ignores that line****


hey, when you ignore points, and keep saying the same shit where I could simply copy and paste responses that I made earlier, I dont expect much. When your logic is circular, or breaks down one or two points away in ether direction, its good for argument but does get a little boring and moves no where. And when you keep clinging to absurd points, its just ridiculous. I mean cmon, -acapellas are for blind people to be able to learn the lyrics better??? LOL- give that one up stud.

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Ok, that's reasonable, but still, Don't you think they locked the files for a REASON?


why would you even ask the question, only to argue or something? you have read my other posts, weve already discussed in length the reasons.


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I do not expect, demand, or feel entitled to have any of the great suggestions that I have made so far ever be implemented. period end of story.


LOL at you assuming your suggestions are "Great"...carry on.


my other suggestions are great, even if I say so myself. If you would like me to prove it to you PM me.

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also, this is not in any way shape or for connected to the "price". In other words, I would be making the exact same suggestion having paid $1000 for it or if they gave it to me and paid me to use it as endorsement.

Having paid a 1000.00 for what Serato? Or to have access to the pool.

If for Serato, your suggestions are still for a product that they STILL offer for free, and instead of 1 year turnaround @ the savings of 50.00 bucks a month for a Pool you don't have to PAY for, it'll be 2 years instead. If the suggestions were for a POOL you PAY for, chances are you wouldn't be part of that pool in the FIRST place to have files that you can't use the way you WANT because you "paid" for them.


1000 for ether or both, it does not mater.
see, this is where I can just respond with a C&P of the above:
also, this is not in any way shape or form connected to the "price". In other words, I would be making the exact same suggestion having paid $1000 for it or if they gave it to me and paid me to use it as endorsement.

see how that works, I just said it doesnt mater to me what I paid or didnt pay, I would still make the suggestions, why keep yapping about the price????


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Sure it does! From the RECORD COMPANIES POV! It's FREE SHIT! They're already doing you a FAVOR, by giving you access (IF YOU WANT IT), all they ask, is that you use Serato!


so what?
"a favor" LOL record labels dont do people "favors" its part of a promotional, and marketing plan. It is in there own best interest to put records in my hand that they need people to hear.

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the "price tag" is not part of my reason for wanting it to work a certain way. I just happen to believe that WLs are not entirely "free" and for the sake of argument


But that's the POINT! It IS A FREE service, you can basically take it, or leave it. It does not change the standing you have with the Serato product you bought.


so?

I dont care if its free, expensive, or endorsement, Im still going to talk about what would make it better.

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that does not describe WLs because if you do not own SSL then you can not use WLs,


That is INCORRECT! You can download the files, and listen to them at the lower bitrate and STILL decide if you want to purchase the music.



you mean like a test drive? a product sample? just looking?

SO?

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but if you purchase SSL then you can use SSL. you must purchase in order to use.


That is also incorrect. You may download the files, and NOT EVEN OWN SERATO, and bring it to a venue that has Serato installed, and "USE" the files. Where in that equation did YOU purchase Serato?



the point is, and yes I am saying it again: someone does in fact have to purchase it
and again the example that I was sure I made perfectly clear. If a friend lets you use his car, barrow instead of rent, for "FREE" the car was still purchased. It wasnt the car company that gave you a "free" car, it was your friend who allowed you to use his system that he paid for.



ANYTHING someone lets you barrow is "free", to YOU. It was still paid for tho



If Rane were to outfit all us DJs with free hardware at no cost, then call it "free".


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dude thats a straw man. the only one who keeps bringing up the price is you. its moot.


It's moot to YOU, but that's the bargaining chip. Would you PAY for locked file? Chances are no....so "FREE" is a great marketing tool.



duh, thats what it would be if they even marketed it. uh... since they arnt marketing it there is no "bargaining chip".

"two for the price of one", "half off the price for two" or "buy one, get one free"
is there any difference between the three? NO.

any one can frame it anyway they please, it doesnt change the mathematics of the situation.
"two for the price of none", "all off the price of two" or "buy one, get both free" LOL


FREE







Really, it is a mater of "the cup being half full, or half empty" Its mater of how you want to frame it to suit your needs. It sounds good for marketing to bring the "free" word in sounds great. If you want to measure all the updates subsequent to your purchase, and all the WLs as "free" fine. sounds great for marketing class. For me the precise mathematics of the situation say otherwise. It is a system thats value increases in time after the purchase because additional elements are added at no additional charge.

fine however you want to measure, call it free if it suits you.
I wont argue about the cost of the SSL+WL system any further.
that being said, and even if the entire system where 100% free, I still see absolutely no reason to quit making suggestions. And I will continue to make suggestions, unless you or anyone can convince me that the suggestions that I make are not appreciated, if not expected.








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yeah that would be a great deal, but no one in this thread, and seldom on this board are people having problems with the price.


So why complain about free shit?


first, Ive already asked you or anyone to quote me or anyone "complaining", no one is complaining. how many times do I have to say it?

second, If you want to take a suggestion and call it a complaint then show where anyone has ever claimed some sort of entitlement.

If you cant show that anyone feels entitled to them working a certain way, then I dont see how you could characterize a suggestion as a "complaint". if then even.

and

not only are there the Feature Suggestions, and Beta Feedback areas on this very forum but the staff often comes on and thanks people for the suggestions. So its pretty clear that they do indeed appreciate the so called "complaints"


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I dont have a problem with limitations on promos, but if the limitation causes it to not be used in the first place then whats the point?

Why can't you use the file "AS IS" ? You only desire the ability to manipulate it a certain way, which opens it up to possible file sharing, in it's altered state.


is it copy and C&P time again???
all throughout this thread Ive talked about what limitations will cause me to not use them in the first place. and I have suggested ways to keep them secure while letting me do more of what I need to do with them.

I dont have a solution for the prohibition on backing the files up which if not lifted will have me ether not using them or breaking the rules.


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Then why are you suggesting that the files could be "useless", or "unusable" or in your own words and what if the limitations make them useless in the first place? what would the point be? Why are you inferring that they are useless?


I can not use WLs without breaking the rules. I keep several backups of my system, which is explicitly prohibited by the rules. TO ME they are useless. Im giving feedback on my system, my needs. Im not asking anyone to join me in the not being able to use them. And I am certainly not advocating a boycott.

If you are going to argue with me, then argue with me, not the straw men you keep assassinating.


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But these aren't your RECORDS to edit. I understand the BACKUP ISSUE, but all that other stuff doesn't fly.


what, I never said they are "mine" (even tho you keep telling me they were given to me free)

If I loop an intro or remix a cut, Im not trying to claim ownership over anything, not anymore ownership then if I eq or normalize a file.

again this is another straw man argument.





the fact remains that I am not allowed to back up the files, making them unusable for me




thus I am making suggestions that would make them usable. again, I am not demanding, crying, or feel entitled to even be listened to.

do I have your permission to continue with the "back up" issue?






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Out of the seven to eight thousand records I have now, maybe twelve thousand that I have owned, Ive probably purchased less then ten promos. I purchased them because they are rare and oop. If you want to call that "getting over" be my guest, if you ask me who ever got it for free might have gotten over by selling it. But almost all the promos that Ive gotten have been given to me for "free".


Well if FREE means you PAY are record pool to SEND you stuff, then they need to update the definition for FREE...again.


whatever, and however you want to define it or whatever context you want to pu it in, be my guest.

if a record that I didnt even ask for shows up at my doorstep at absolutely no charge to me, I would call that "free". The vinyl yes, the (c)(p) rights no, just to be specific.


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Gee, you're a day late, and a dollar short. I've never been part of a record "Pool", some labels sent me free shit, but most things I just go out and buy "when necessary". And even then, you can't tell me that the record stores MADE IT THEIR BUSINESS not to put a PROMO record in your hand that you BOUGHT.
I find it hard to believe that you would turn down that hot new shit by Jeezy and the store only had the promo copy left...and offered to sell it to you, and you'd turn it down, cuz it would be breaking the rules of the promo game.


Im not talking about a record pool.

I dont care, or understand what your point is about record stores, I dont buy promos from them.

as far as Jeezy his, or shit just like it is in my dumpster out back, so...
no, I would not take any Jeezy records for free, or not, I am trying to get rid of vinyl, especially shit that I will never ever play.

and its been a very long time since Ive seen any promo that I would pay for. just like I already explained. and the ones that I did would amount to about 0.01 percent of the the vinyl I own.

what this even has to do with anything, I do not know


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But again, your desire to have the files a certain way, exposes them to duplication and filesharing. Nobody wants a 32k file.


SO????

AND all through this argument Ive been advocating for solutions that would, 1. keep the lock in effect, 2. lower the incentives for unlocking them, and 3. solutions that would lock up even more files

SO???????




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And WHY didn't you play cassettes at the club? Could it be the QUALITY or not an available Cassette player? Or could it be "Damn, HE AIN'T NO DJ, he's playing a TAPE! These particular record companies OBVIOUSLY don't want you editing their files. That's their prerogative.


no, they obviously do wawnt me to edit, remix, or mash
otherwise they would simply not release them. there is no other reason for them to be released.
mash, blend, remix, whatever. because there is one surefire way to prevent it from happening -dont release the accapella

theres no acapella club nights, radio shows, or mixtapes
they are not for blind people to learn the lyrics


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Ok, let's say they release accapellas, so you can remix, extend the song to promote it. The TRICK is that they want you to play it through SERATO! lol.


uh, so???
thats what I play them through, Serato.
what makes you think Im going to play them through something else?


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LOL for blind people to learn the words????????? cmon g, if your point dont make any freaking sense at all, just give it up. where are all the acapella CDs? why only 12s? dont tell me that possibly blind people prefer the format over CD just like DJs? LOL


I don't know about you guys but I see acapella version on CD's around my way all day, every day.


for blind people right?

LOL
AKIEM 9:31 PM - 3 February, 2007
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if its only "unnecessary static" why bother complaining about it in the first place? just ignore it, howbout that?


Because it keeps sitting here on my periphary gettin' at me like Carol Ann. So I gotta open the closet and toss some numbered tennis ball in...Now you're droppin 'em back at me covered in some goo!

On the real, I'm trying to get it all tuned in so it doesn't seem like static any more and is something that I either sit and watch or change the channel. Haven't decided yet. :-)


okay, you might want to go here and support this function www.scratchlive.net

that way you could put me on your ignore list and not bother seeing my name, or post.

otherwise, I suggest you just avert your eyes to me
AKIEM 9:32 PM - 3 February, 2007
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wow, what a read.
But I did make a few notes in my book of things to do
... make a way of paying for the files later and 'unlocking' them .... make a away to remix/edit whitelabel.net files....

Thanks for all the feedback, we appreciate it.



word, I would love to be able to edit WL, and encode to the WL format
Thundercat 10:32 PM - 3 February, 2007
Why the hostility dude? Maybe I'll leave out the metaphors and emoticons as it seems something is getting lost in the interpretation. Let's clarify what I was saying:

Unnecessary static: I don't understand why someone would complain so vehemently about something free.

Get it all tuned in: attempt to understand both of the conflicting points of view.

Sit and watch or change the channel: figure out if the thread is making progress in any direction and/or if it isn't to cease following the thread.

It appears that the latter may be my choice. I will engage you no further as I have no desire for this to get ugly when my intention was not such. In closing, my personal opinion on the matter is (**warning: metaphor/idiom alert**): Don't Look A Gift Horse In The Mouth.
nik39 1:32 AM - 4 February, 2007
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no, they obviously do wawnt me to edit, remix, or mash
otherwise they would simply not release them. there is no other reason for them to be released.
mash, blend, remix, whatever. because there is one surefire way to prevent it from happening -dont release the accapella

theres no acapella club nights, radio shows, or mixtapes
they are not for blind people to learn the lyrics

Lol.
AKIEM 3:56 AM - 4 February, 2007
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Why the hostility dude? Maybe I'll leave out the metaphors and emoticons as it seems something is getting lost in the interpretation. Let's clarify what I was saying:

Unnecessary static: I don't understand why someone would complain so vehemently about something free.

Get it all tuned in: attempt to understand both of the conflicting points of view.

Sit and watch or change the channel: figure out if the thread is making progress in any direction and/or if it isn't to cease following the thread.

It appears that the latter may be my choice. I will engage you no further as I have no desire for this to get ugly when my intention was not such. In closing, my personal opinion on the matter is (**warning: metaphor/idiom alert**): Don't Look A Gift Horse In The Mouth.



Hostility: what hostility are you talking about???
I guess its easy to read emotions into written words where there are none.

Unnecessary static: I was sure that you would rather not read my writting.

I wasnt to sure about some of the metaphors, tennis balls and carol ann, and what not, so I just kinda ignored those. But hostile? no.

Im not sure why it need get ugly.




Everything Im saying can be simply encapsulated in this one simple sentence: I would really love to use WL but I cannot because of the currant system configuration and limitations.

Subsequently, I along with others have been bringing some possible solutions to the table. Solutions that I believe could satisfy all parties involved.

I thought that these ideas would be appreciated especially because the WL system is in beta, and would still be appreciated otherwise.

I do not understand why people are confusing suggestions and complaints unless its simply to make argument.

I do not understand why anyone would characterize what Im saying as "vehemently complaining". This is why Ive asked several times for anyone to simple quote the "complaining". If someone would do this maybe the problem could be solved quite easily, because maybe its just a misunderstanding. I happen to believe that people perceive some sort of "complaint" because it has to do with a feature or limitation that they are not concerned with. So again, please point out the "complaint". Yes when someone calls your suggestion a complaint it is annoying and detracts from the suggestion, which does in fact become frustrating <----- emotion.

If you ask me to join the posse and give me a horse, you should give me one that I can ride.
Thundercat 4:43 AM - 4 February, 2007
See, now I feel like we're family again. =)

Carol Ann, tennis balls, etc. a Poltergeist (the movie) reference.
DJJOHNNYM 4:43 PM - 4 February, 2007
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hey, when you ignore points, and keep saying the same shit where I could simply copy and paste responses that I made earlier, I dont expect much. When your logic is circular, or breaks down one or two points away in ether direction, its good for argument but does get a little boring and moves no where. And when you keep clinging to absurd points, its just ridiculous. I mean cmon, -acapellas are for blind people to be able to learn the lyrics better??? LOL- give that one up stud.


Man Listen, the only reason I said the accapellas were for BLIND PEOPLE was because Nik was trying to "Prove" that the lyrics would enclosed within the record jacket for those who really wanted to learn the lyrics. I was being as absurd as he was...but apparently your desparateness to try and prove something took that seriously....smh. But I'll keep entertaining your shortsighted hypothesis'.

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why would you even ask the question, only to argue or something? you have read my other posts, weve already discussed in length the reasons.


No I haven't read your other posts, I was answering your questions out of context like you wanted me to.

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my other suggestions are great, even if I say so myself. If you would like me to prove it to you PM me.


And have me totally destroy you within the privacy of my own PM? Oh HELL NO...I want the public to see this...

Don't worry, I'll soon get an entire day to shut this thread down...stay tuned.
DJJOHNNYM 4:52 PM - 4 February, 2007
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so?

I dont care if its free, expensive, or endorsement, Im still going to talk about what would make it better.


I couldn't ignore this one...

But NOBODY ASKED FOR YOUR SUGGESTIONS to make it better...LOL.

There was no "post your feedback about our files" area...

They KNEW what they were doing, or else they wouldn't have done it. LMAO.

That's like you staying up all night to back some chocolate chip cookies to give away at work the next day for FREE...

And then one of your co-workers, who is eating the cookie for "FREE", comes up to you and says, "You know what would make this cookie better? If you put NUTS in it. Now unbeknownst to you, you DIDN'T put nuts in the cookie in the first place because you KNEW there was the possiblity that some people might become allergic and SUE your ass cuz you made them sick cuz you put nuts in them.

You knew what you were doing in the FIRST place, that's why you did it that way.
DJJOHNNYM 4:54 PM - 4 February, 2007
*all night to BAKE some chocolate chip cookies...
*Now unbeknownst to HIM...
DJJOHNNYM 4:55 PM - 4 February, 2007
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Why the hostility dude?


Man, let 'em get emotional....That's when you KNOW you have them on the ropes...
AKIEM 7:44 PM - 4 February, 2007
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hey, when you ignore points, and keep saying the same shit where I could simply copy and paste responses that I made earlier, I dont expect much. When your logic is circular, or breaks down one or two points away in ether direction, its good for argument but does get a little boring and moves no where. And when you keep clinging to absurd points, its just ridiculous. I mean cmon, -acapellas are for blind people to be able to learn the lyrics better??? LOL- give that one up stud.


Man Listen, the only reason I said the accapellas were for BLIND PEOPLE was because Nik was trying to "Prove" that the lyrics would enclosed within the record jacket for those who really wanted to learn the lyrics. I was being as absurd as he was...but apparently your desparateness to try and prove something took that seriously....smh. But I'll keep entertaining your shortsighted hypothesis'.


now we have to argue about the argument: classic

I was sure that Niks entire argument was that remix, mashups, blends where the reason for acapellas being release... while on the other hand it was you trying to find some other reason for them. for people to learn the lyrics, etc.

that aside you have actualy admitted that the REASON for acapellas must be for remix, mashups, blends. there really is o other reason for them being released, correct?




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why would you even ask the question, only to argue or something? you have read my other posts, weve already discussed in length the reasons.


No I haven't read your other posts, I was answering your questions out of context like you wanted me to.


no, Ive been careful to always leave the context (as I note the context is missing)

and dude, you are trying to tell me that we have not argued about the reasons for WLs being locked all through this thread????
weve argued about it at some length already. need we go over the reasons again???

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my other suggestions are great, even if I say so myself. If you would like me to prove it to you PM me.


And have me totally destroy you within the privacy of my own PM? Oh HELL NO...I want the public to see this...

Don't worry, I'll soon get an entire day to shut this thread down...stay tuned.


well I did want to leave this thread on topic at least. and I dont really need to big myself up. but if we must....
I will meet your challenge here if you like.

first I would like you to define the word "great"

how bout you start a different thread, "Are Akiem's ideas great or not?"



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so?

I dont care if its free, expensive, or endorsement, Im still going to talk about what would make it better.


I couldn't ignore this one...

But NOBODY ASKED FOR YOUR SUGGESTIONS to make it better...LOL.

There was no "post your feedback about our files" area...

They KNEW what they were doing, or else they wouldn't have done it. LMAO.

That's like you staying up all night to back some chocolate chip cookies to give away at work the next day for FREE...

And then one of your co-workers, who is eating the cookie for "FREE", comes up to you and says, "You know what would make this cookie better? If you put NUTS in it. Now unbeknownst to you, you DIDN'T put nuts in the cookie in the first place because you KNEW there was the possiblity that some people might become allergic and SUE your ass cuz you made them sick cuz you put nuts in them.

You knew what you were doing in the FIRST place, that's why you did it that way.


aahaaaahaaaa this is just as stupid as the blind people, no one is going to sue you over nuts in cokies (unless Im dipping my nuts in the bater) LOL if you want to argue about that

I give comrades FREE gifts all the fucking time. I give out FREE advice all the fucking time, even on this board. I give people shit for FREE all the fucking time.

especially when it comes to my advice would I like the + or - feedback. but If I was out here baking shit flavored cookies some one better fucking tell me about about it lest I continue thinking its all to the good.





as far as WL feedback, not only do they appreciate the feedback, but they have thanked us, and asked for more in this very thread.











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*all night to BAKE some chocolate chip cookies...
*Now unbeknownst to HIM...


whatever

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Why the hostility dude?


Man, let 'em get emotional....That's when you KNOW you have them on the ropes...



LOL<-------emotion
LOL more
AKIEM 7:47 PM - 4 February, 2007
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See, now I feel like we're family again. =)

Carol Ann, tennis balls, etc. a Poltergeist (the movie) reference.


no worry mate its all good.


sorry for jacking this thread tho, ego
nik39 7:52 PM - 4 February, 2007
Quote:
Man Listen, the only reason I said the accapellas were for BLIND PEOPLE was because Nik was trying to "Prove" that the lyrics would enclosed within the record jacket for those who really wanted to learn the lyrics. I was being as absurd as he was.

Absurd? I was trying to explain why acapellas are more often on vinyls (promo) than on CDs. There is a reason. And I also proved your theory that acapellas are so that you can listen to the lyrics better is wrong, ZERO out of top25 CDs had any acapellas, ZWO out of 50 CDs had acapellas. Isnt it bad how the record companies care about how good you understand the lyrcis? Bad, bad bad labels.
nik39 7:56 PM - 4 February, 2007
Quote:
But NOBODY ASKED FOR YOUR SUGGESTIONS to make it better...LOL.

Actually you *are* wrong. Just ONE quote (its ONE out of a couple...), dave from SERATO said:

Quote:
Thanks for all the feedback, we are listening and will take your feedback with us to the record labels we are dealing with.

There are lots of interesting ideas here, keep them coming.


So AKIEM (as well as others) have been encouraged to post their thoughts and opinions and suggestions.
nik39 7:56 PM - 4 February, 2007
q.e.d.
dave 10:17 PM - 4 February, 2007
Quote:
do I have your permission to continue with the "back up" issue?

You've got my permission (as if you needed it ;). I need to investigate the back up issue.
DJJOHNNYM 1:15 AM - 5 February, 2007
Quote:
Quote:
But NOBODY ASKED FOR YOUR SUGGESTIONS to make it better...LOL.

Actually you *are* wrong. Just ONE quote (its ONE out of a couple...), dave from SERATO said:

Quote:
Thanks for all the feedback, we are listening and will take your feedback with us to the record labels we are dealing with.

There are lots of interesting ideas here, keep them coming.


So AKIEM (as well as others) have been encouraged to post their thoughts and opinions and suggestions.


Let me address this "out of context again"....

The only reason why they said "Thank you for your comments", is nothing more than A MARKETING SCHEME...duh!

They are NOT gonna tell you to STFU b/c that wouldn't help them overall after this thread is over and done with. They can't be remembered as the CATS FROM SERATO who didn't "Care" what your input is, because you give input to so many OTHER THINGS that they are actually "INTERESTED IN"....

It's called picking your battles...

Overall, from what I've seen, this seems to be the latest "controversial" issue, but again, you KNOW they locked the files for a reason...not just to lock them...

Oh, well....keep [sarcasm]whining, & complaining about free shit, [/sarcasm] giving them your suggestions about things they've thought about already....

I'm sure it's news to them.
nik39 1:26 AM - 5 February, 2007
Quote:
The only reason why they said "Thank you for your comments", is nothing more than A MARKETING SCHEME...duh!

They are NOT gonna tell you to STFU b/c that wouldn't help them overall after this thread is over and done with

No, you are wrong. I just quoted one example. There are other posts where THEY ASKED *US* for *OUR* opinions and FEEDBACK.
nik39 1:28 AM - 5 February, 2007
Sorry, with all the shouting I forgot half of the sentence... ;)

No, you are wrong. I just quoted one example. There are other posts where THEY ASKED *US* for *OUR* opinions and FEEDBACK before we even STARTED to post.
DJJOHNNYM 3:51 AM - 5 February, 2007
Quote:
Sorry, with all the shouting I forgot half of the sentence... ;)

No, you are wrong. I just quoted one example. There are other posts where THEY ASKED *US* for *OUR* opinions and FEEDBACK before we even STARTED to post.


LOL...You shouldn't try to BE like me mayne...!

Anyways, it's a KNOWN fact that you're a big contributor to this forum **rolls eyes**, and you (and a coupla other folks), do more good, than bad, so it's in their best interest to keep you (and some of them) around...

But you have to be absolutely PLASTERED to believe that for one moment, they didn't think this "locked" strategy through...

There are WAY more pros, than cons...

PROS
1. It's free shit.
2. It makes Serato that MUCH MORE attractive to buy.
3. The files are HIGH QUALITY when played back through Serato, no crappy bitrates.
4. They are trying a technology that keeps the record companies happy for the moment...
5. Even those that DON'T have Serato can preview files...just becuz. That part helps out the record companies all by themselves.
6. You have instant access to those that maintain the files, incase of incorrect labeling, and such...
7. You don't have to write up a review for these joints. Just plug and play.
8. Very minimal chance of file winding up on P2P Network in native state.
9. Did I mention, that it's FREE?

CONS
1. Can't edit the files for extending intros or remixes.
2. Can't "backup" the files or copy.
3. Can't play files at HI QUALITY rate in device other than Serato w/out hack.
4. Some DJ's who might use multiple playback devices might have to maintain 2 music libraries, or a wl. folder. Possible boycott.

So now, you take into consideration all the CONS

1. So what you can't extend the intro or do remixes...you don't legally have permission.

2. Ok, the "backup" issue is "Officially" bothersome, so I have mixed feelings about that...but I will DO what I HAVE TO DO...Let's say, for example, download the same file TWICE...Save one file to a "Working Folder", save another download of the same file to an "Archive Folder"...You're technically not making a "copy" of the file...but y'all get the picture.

3. Ok, the HI-QUALITY file is restricted to Serato playback. Will cause issues with DJ's using more than 1 playback solution, but how much trouble can they REALLY cause? How many DJ's will actually stop using Serato b/c wl. file only work on them? ZERO . WHY? Because they can elect not to participate in the pool, and still get their files elsewhere. No money lost. That's real.

4. Those DJ's using mulitple platforms will either adapt, or opt out of using the wl. files. Will any Serato sales be lost because of this travesty? Chances are no. DJ's who are forward thinking will stay away from wl. files (or at least have a duplicate copy of said file), but MOST Serato DJ's, will eat it up. Serato is making the possiblity of ANYBODY DJ'ING a REALITY. No more crate digging. No hunting. Nothing. Serato will become the absolute wave of the future for HORDES of WANNABE DJ'S, and that is nothing more than MO-MONEY, MO-MONEY, MO-MONEY.

Remember that DJ in a Box thing that Gemini or Numark used to sell? What was it? 2 TT's a mixer, a mike some headphones and maybe a light?

Imagine Serato in a box. 2TT's or CDJ's, TM57, a mike, some headphones....AND FREE MUSIC? THAT'S THE BIG PICTURE HOMEBOY.

You can't f*ck with that combo, no matter how many "suggestions" you may have. Those NEW DJ's don't have the integrity like that.
nik39 4:02 AM - 5 February, 2007
Quote:
Quote:
Sorry, with all the shouting I forgot half of the sentence... ;)

No, you are wrong. I just quoted one example. There are other posts where THEY ASKED *US* for *OUR* opinions and FEEDBACK before we even STARTED to post.


LOL...You shouldn't try to BE like me mayne...!

Anyways, it's a KNOWN fact that you're a big contributor to this forum **rolls eyes**, and you (and a coupla other folks), do more good, than bad, so it's in their best interest to keep you (and some of them) around...

Maybe I was not clear enough, I meant with "*OUR*" opionion, yours, mine, his, hers... anyone on this forum. Not mine and AKIEMs specifically. So you can scrape hat "big contributor" "rolling eyes" and all that other stuff.

Of course they want to keep *US* (you, me, him, her...) happy. We bring in the money, we are the customers, we paid for their product.

3+4), out of curiosity, who said anything about someone dumping there SSL or NOT buying it b/c of anything?

Quote:
bla bla bla bla

No, offense, but your post is steering in a total different direction, and I cant (and dont want to) follow you.


Have a nice day.
AKIEM 7:07 AM - 5 February, 2007
LOL oh man, see this is why I put the time into these long useless arguments. If Im having a rough day I can just come in here for the comedy. Some laughs and my disposition is great again.


Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
But NOBODY ASKED FOR YOUR SUGGESTIONS to make it better...LOL.

Actually you *are* wrong. Just ONE quote (its ONE out of a couple...), dave from SERATO said:

Quote:
Thanks for all the feedback, we are listening and will take your feedback with us to the record labels we are dealing with.

There are lots of interesting ideas here, keep them coming.


So AKIEM (as well as others) have been encouraged to post their thoughts and opinions and suggestions.


Let me address this "out of context again"....


lol, context, what context?
here is the ENTIRE post, I dont know what more context you could add????? the previous post???? what??????

Quote:

Sam
Serato, Moderator
February 2, 2007, 12:13 AM
wow, what a read.
But I did make a few notes in my book of things to do
... make a way of paying for the files later and 'unlocking' them .... make a away to remix/edit whitelabel.net files....

Thanks for all the feedback, we appreciate it.



Quote:

The only reason why they said "Thank you for your comments", is nothing more than A MARKETING SCHEME...duh!

They are NOT gonna tell you to STFU b/c that wouldn't help them overall after this thread is over and done with. They can't be remembered as the CATS FROM SERATO who didn't "Care" what your input is, because you give input to so many OTHER THINGS that they are actually "INTERESTED IN"....

It's called picking your battles...

Overall, from what I've seen, this seems to be the latest "controversial" issue, but again, you KNOW they locked the files for a reason...not just to lock them...

Oh, well....keep [sarcasm]whining, & complaining about free shit, [/sarcasm] giving them your suggestions about things they've thought about already....

I'm sure it's news to them.



A MARKETING SCHEME??? man thats rich, LOL!. Let me get this straight, it makes more sense that the Serato staff are going to come in here and waste their time with phony patronizing "thank yous" and please continues" just to make themselves look like they care? LOL, why dont they just ignore the thread? there are plenty of other hot issues and important maters that they dont respond to, even when directly asked. Might it not be that they really do want feedback about WL especially since its in beta just like 1.7?? The same reason they have feedback areas, where peoples actual suggestions actually make it into the actual release????? HA, nope thats not it, DJJOHNNYM is so perceptive that he can see through the complicated reuses and subtle deceptions that make everyone else think they are might listen to a couple words. No, it couldnt possibly be that they simply find the feedback useful.

Man, not even if the staff come right into the thread and ask for feedback could you prove it to DJJOHNNYM as his reality swirls around his shifting arguments pinned to his non-local points.

hilarious

"whining, & complaining"
Again, a fourth or fifth request for a quote, all I can do is keep asking, maybe Im crazy to think anyone will actually quote.
AKIEM 7:20 AM - 5 February, 2007
Quote:
Quote:
do I have your permission to continue with the "back up" issue?

You've got my permission (as if you needed it ;). I need to investigate the back up issue.


This is how I back up my system:
I download to my desktop computer and organize in iTunes which I back up with the iTunes incremental backup to dvd. The files that I feel I will use I copy to my SSL laptop.

I clone the first laptop to a second identical laptop. Both laptops now have identical drives. Two partitions each. Partition A is for SSL and partition B is for all my other programs. I boot laptop 1 with partition A, and laptop 2 I boot with partition B. If one laptop fails, I have a second.

Then I have another portable drive with a bootable clone of each partition. If my internal drive fails I can boot from esternal.

I can carry two identical laptops. Or just one laptop with a bootable backup drive. Or all three.

So I have about four to six copys of most files. I doubt that I would get in some kind of trouble using WLs and backing them up, but it would be clearly against the rules.
AKIEM 9:12 AM - 5 February, 2007
Quote:

But you have to be absolutely PLASTERED to believe that for one moment, they didn't think this "locked" strategy through...


call me plastered, I dont care, I do drink vodka and beers and stouts and patrons while I post. yes, I do believe they thought it through, but they cant think through every possible scenario, and they arnt psychics down there. Thats why they need feedback from the users.

For example I happen to know [WL boards +] that originally WL where going to be 128k. Because of the feedback they got, they decided (wisely I might add) that users really wanted higher quality. They listened, and changed it. You can call it whining and complaining if it makes you feel good or whatever, but the fact remains that if no one said shit the quality would be shit.

Quote:

There are WAY more pros, than cons...

PROS
1. It's free shit.
2. It makes Serato that MUCH MORE attractive to buy.
3. The files are HIGH QUALITY when played back through Serato, no crappy bitrates.
4. They are trying a technology that keeps the record companies happy for the moment...
5. Even those that DON'T have Serato can preview files...just becuz. That part helps out the record companies all by themselves.
6. You have instant access to those that maintain the files, incase of incorrect labeling, and such...
7. You don't have to write up a review for these joints. Just plug and play.
8. Very minimal chance of file winding up on P2P Network in native state.
9. Did I mention, that it's FREE?


1. no additional cost yes, I love it though I can get each some place else, free
2. jump in then DJJOHNNYM
3. only because users cried and whined about it till they gave in
4. not that I have any love for the mafriaa
5. not that I have any love for the mafriaa
6. yeah, you can cry, whine, complain, bitch, moan directly to them
7. god cipher divine
8. clumsiness averted
9. I guess you had to to make sure the PROs outwiegh the CONs.

DUNT DUNTDUNT DAAAAAHHH!!!!!!
AND NOW FOR THE C..O...n..... hey wait a second... let me try that again

DUNT DUnt dunt drrrrmmm.... hmmm okay one more time

DUNT, hey hold up a fucking second Jim, rewind one fucking second!

why the fuck is it that if *I* bring these very same issues up, the exact same ones, in this exact thread, are they called COMPLAINTS but when DJJOHNNYM brings them up as if he just regurgitated my words they are called CONS?????

now how the fuck does that work?

Quote:

CONS
1. Can't edit the files for extending intros or remixes.
2. Can't "backup" the files or copy.
3. Can't play files at HI QUALITY rate in device other than Serato w/out hack.
4. Some DJ's who might use multiple playback devices might have to maintain 2 music libraries, or a wl. folder. Possible boycott.


1. nope, sure cant, annoys me me to hell.
-b. no normalizing, eq, dynamics, etc
-c. no splicing like 12" sides
2. cuts out a huge numbers of users, any professional suggests backing up is essential
3. kills ipod or car stereo set familiarization, essential for some
4. I have no freaking ideas what this boycott notion is

you forgot these

5. no radio broadcasting
6. some file organizing tools will wreck the files
7. easy to unlock


Funny thing about pros and cons, you can have thousands of pros, but just one little con that renders the system useless and the whole freaking deal is off


great, more whining, bitching and moaning:
Quote:

So now, you take into consideration all the CONS

1. So what you can't extend the intro or do remixes...you don't legally have permission.

2. Ok, the "backup" issue is "Officially" bothersome, so I have mixed feelings about that...but I will DO what I HAVE TO DO...Let's say, for example, download the same file TWICE...Save one file to a "Working Folder", save another download of the same file to an "Archive Folder"...You're technically not making a "copy" of the file...but y'all get the picture.

3. Ok, the HI-QUALITY file is restricted to Serato playback. Will cause issues with DJ's using more than 1 playback solution, but how much trouble can they REALLY cause? How many DJ's will actually stop using Serato b/c wl. file only work on them? ZERO . WHY? Because they can elect not to participate in the pool, and still get their files elsewhere. No money lost. That's real.

4. Those DJ's using mulitple platforms will either adapt, or opt out of using the wl. files. Will any Serato sales be lost because of this travesty? Chances are no. DJ's who are forward thinking will stay away from wl. files (or at least have a duplicate copy of said file), but MOST Serato DJ's, will eat it up. Serato is making the possiblity of ANYBODY DJ'ING a REALITY. No more crate digging. No hunting. Nothing. Serato will become the absolute wave of the future for HORDES of WANNABE DJ'S, and that is nothing more than MO-MONEY, MO-MONEY, MO-MONEY.


1. you dont legally need permission. lol

2. oh its only "bothersome" when you mention it, but its crying and whining when I mention it. I see how that works.lol

3. it would be a great waisted effort if not enough DJs use the system

4. great and Im all for it. in my mind Rane/Serato deserve every single us dollar, and kiwi dollar they get+. [quite probably the more improvements to the system they make, the more money they will make. user feedback is obviously one great way to figure out what would make the system better]


the below suggestions are crap, they dont solve any problems whatsoever, not to mention corny and toy

Quote:

Remember that DJ in a Box thing that Gemini or Numark used to sell? What was it? 2 TT's a mixer, a mike some headphones and maybe a light?

Imagine Serato in a box. 2TT's or CDJ's, TM57, a mike, some headphones....AND FREE MUSIC? THAT'S THE BIG PICTURE HOMEBOY.

You can't f*ck with that combo, no matter how many "suggestions" you may have. Those NEW DJ's don't have the integrity like that.
sixxx 9:23 AM - 5 February, 2007
Very good point AKIEM. Serato cannot think of every single scenario and that's why feedback is very important to them.
DJJOHNNYM 4:35 PM - 5 February, 2007
Quote:


the below suggestions are crap, they dont solve any problems whatsoever, not to mention corny and toy


Quote:

Remember that DJ in a Box thing that Gemini or Numark used to sell? What was it? 2 TT's a mixer, a mike some headphones and maybe a light?

Imagine Serato in a box. 2TT's or CDJ's, TM57, a mike, some headphones....AND FREE MUSIC? THAT'S THE BIG PICTURE HOMEBOY.


What wasn't a SUGGESTION, that is exactly the way the market is going....or don't you see that?

What REAL DJ would SUGGEST SUCH A THING?

But what REAL CORPORATION who is trying to MAKE MONEY WOULDN'T?

That "suggestion" as you put it, NO doesn't solve any problems. Who ever said they were?

That's how it's goin' down dawg.

If Serato could sell a box to each and every consumer out there...they would.

They would be the Microsoft of DJ'ing.
DJJOHNNYM 4:38 PM - 5 February, 2007


1. nope, sure cant, annoys me me to hell.
-b. no normalizing, eq, dynamics, etc
-c. no splicing like 12" sides
2. cuts out a huge numbers of users, any professional suggests backing up is essential
3. kills ipod or car stereo set familiarization, essential for some
4. I have no freaking ideas what this boycott notion is

you forgot these
[b]
5. no radio broadcasting
6. some file organizing tools will wreck the files
7. easy to unlock [/b]

What would prevent you from doing radio broadcasts if you have a TM57, or HELL even a full blown setup at the station?

Was there a clause for no rebroadcasting that I missed?
Crickett 4:38 PM - 5 February, 2007
If you don't like the way Whitelabel.net operates?

DON'T use it?

Simple, End of story..
Otherwise? Don't bitch.

My 2 cents-
DJJOHNNYM 4:39 PM - 5 February, 2007
And when I say "Out of context", NO I haven't read everything you've said here because you keep forcing me to answer a set of questions at a time...lol.
DJJOHNNYM 4:40 PM - 5 February, 2007
Quote:
If you don't like the way Whitelabel.net operates?

DON'T use it?

Simple, End of story..
Otherwise? Don't bitch.

My 2 cents-


Exactly!

But then again....

bitching = feedback ...I suppose...

LMAO @ someone actually thinking that Serato didn't think thru the process of locking the files...smh.

That shit is genius.
AKIEM 7:08 PM - 5 February, 2007
Quote:
They would be the Microsoft of DJ'ing.


[red screen of death] ---the horror --- the horror ---


Quote:
Was there a clause for no rebroadcasting that I missed?


yes


Quote:
And when I say "Out of context", NO I haven't read everything you've said here because you keep forcing me to answer a set of questions at a time...lol.


what are you talking about? lol
AKIEM 7:13 PM - 5 February, 2007
Quote:
Quote:
If you don't like the way Whitelabel.net operates?

DON'T use it?

Simple, End of story..
Otherwise? Don't bitch.

My 2 cents-


Exactly!

But then again....

bitching = feedback ...I suppose...

LMAO @ someone actually thinking that Serato didn't think thru the process of locking the files...smh.

That shit is genius.


thanks for the feedback


only one questions this time:

dont you think that 320k is beter then 128k?
DJJOHNNYM 2:03 AM - 6 February, 2007
Quote:

thanks for the feedback


only one questions this time:

dont you think that 320k is beter then 128k?


Why are you asking an obvious question.

As a DJ of COURSE it's better.

As an ARTIST, if you didn't pay for it, 32k is great for you.

You're again, taking things out of context.

And again, NO, I haven't read all of what you've said, all I know is that, (and one day I will read it all...), you ASSUMED Serato didn't know HOW MUCH TROUBLE it would be if the files were locked. Of course they knew...what don't you understand?

The fact that you're making a "Suggestion" that they should be open for points 1, 2, & 3 etc, have already been taken into consideration....

AND WERE CONSIDERED AGAINST...thus the locked files.
dave 4:23 AM - 6 February, 2007
Quote:
For example I happen to know [WL boards +] that originally WL where going to be 128k.

They were originally 192k -> beta.whitelabel.net

I haven't had the time to follow this thread as much as I would like to. If anyone has a new idea, please start a new thread in the DJ Help area of WL.net instead of posting it here -> beta.whitelabel.net
DJJOHNNYM 4:40 AM - 6 February, 2007
OMG! There's like a BUNCH of cats on there that are talking my argument! LOL! They realize Serato is providing a SERVICE for FREE, and not to bite the hand that feeds you!

Oh that was great. Shame I don't have time to read it all! I'd just copy and paste all their arguments over here!

Again, applauds to Serato for offering this great service, and Just like one of the MODS on the other site said....

IT'S ABOUT COMPROMISE.
AKIEM 10:32 PM - 7 February, 2007
ha

192k=not good

suggestion [cry, bitch, moan, complain]

320k=good

simple as that
sixxx 6:56 AM - 8 February, 2007
192K=good
320=better

It's just how you look at things, really.
deepdjdanny 12:31 PM - 8 February, 2007
wavefile best.
Monk-A 3:29 PM - 8 February, 2007
Quote:
LMAO @ someone actually thinking that Serato didn't think thru the process of locking the files...smh.

That shit is genius.


many people think things through and still make an unpopular decision or the wrong decision.

at the end of the day Serat is use dby many different people, some people can benefit form Whitelabel.net & it's files in it's current state, otehrs can't.

Just because it's free dosen't mena the guys who can't currently use it shouldn't ask to eb able to use it how they want.

this whole thread has now become a petty points scoring exercise, ultimatly it currently suits you, it currently dosen't suit me or akiem or a bunch of other poeple. People are different and have different requirements, so get the f*ck over it and just let people make requests with out having to defend every single character they type.
DJJOHNNYM 12:03 AM - 9 February, 2007
Quote:
Quote:
LMAO @ someone actually thinking that Serato didn't think thru the process of locking the files...smh.

That shit is genius.


many people think things through and still make an unpopular decision or the wrong decision.

at the end of the day Serat is use dby many different people, some people can benefit form Whitelabel.net & it's files in it's current state, otehrs can't.

Just because it's free dosen't mena the guys who can't currently use it shouldn't ask to eb able to use it how they want.

this whole thread has now become a petty points scoring exercise, ultimatly it currently suits you, it currently dosen't suit me or akiem or a bunch of other poeple. People are different and have different requirements, so get the f*ck over it and just let people make requests with out having to defend every single character they type.


LMAO @ you gettin' all Carl Thomasy (emotional) with "get the f*ck over it" because you can't have your way for the moment. I guess that was your attempt at that "petty points scoring exercise".

At the end of the day, it comes down to the "illusion" of free shit, if you will, and that's enough hype to make it worth their effort.

And HOW do you know that some people weren't asked their opinion, only because you weren't in on the ever so secret ".wl" meetings?


You need to go over to the forums on Whitelabel.net and let them chew you up a bit...I just haven't had the time to finish stikin' a fork in ya.
DJJOHNNYM 12:05 AM - 9 February, 2007
I hate winning debates, and not even being there to enjoy the festivities...

I'll celebrate later, and hopefully read the rest of this thread.

CHOW DUDE.
AKIEM 12:41 AM - 9 February, 2007
I wish I could detatch from reality too
Monk-A 1:38 AM - 9 February, 2007
Quote:
LMAO @ you gettin' all Carl Thomasy (emotional) with "get the f*ck over it" because you can't have your way for the moment. I guess that was your attempt at that "petty points scoring exercise".


not really mate we disagree i don't see the point in arguing it over and over, we wnat it unlocked you think we shouldn't moan becaus eit's free... 1,000,000 words later and no ones arguing anything different... so like i said get over it man... let it go. you'll feel like a nicer human being if you just chill and let it go.

Quote:
At the end of the day, it comes down to the "illusion" of free shit, if you will, and that's enough hype to make it worth their effort.


dosne't mean for the working DJ's that can't use it and support their product shouldn't get a chance to voice an opinion... but the internet nazis wont let people speak... oh dear!

Quote:
And HOW do you know that some people weren't asked their opinion, only because you weren't in on the ever so secret ".wl" meetings?


uhm, where have i said people weren't consulted? I thin i've said they maybe haven't canvassed a full range of DJ's


Quote:
You need to go over to the forums on Whitelabel.net and let them chew you up a bit...I just haven't had the time to finish stikin' a fork in ya.


I don't go to WL.net because the files are worthless to me in their current state and the selection of music isn't quite to my liking... so why would i go and pick an argument with a bunch of Whitelabel.net fan boys who belive the illusion of getting something for free means they really ARE getting ti for free?
AKIEM 2:25 AM - 9 February, 2007
Quote:
Quote:
And HOW do you know that some people weren't asked their opinion, only because you weren't in on the ever so secret ".wl" meetings?


uhm, where have i said people weren't consulted? I thin i've said they maybe haven't canvassed a full range of DJ's


ntm, even after the full range of DJs play with it for years, we should still feel comfortable making a suggestion.

its another straw man

ntm=not to mention (not the French saying)
DJJOHNNYM 3:52 AM - 9 February, 2007
Quote:
Quote:
LMAO @ you gettin' all Carl Thomasy (emotional) with "get the f*ck over it" because you can't have your way for the moment. I guess that was your attempt at that "petty points scoring exercise".


not really mate we disagree i don't see the point in arguing it over and over, we wnat it unlocked you think we shouldn't moan becaus eit's free... 1,000,000 words later and no ones arguing anything different... so like i said get over it man... let it go. you'll feel like a nicer human being if you just chill and let it go.

Quote:
At the end of the day, it comes down to the "illusion" of free shit, if you will, and that's enough hype to make it worth their effort.


dosne't mean for the working DJ's that can't use it and support their product shouldn't get a chance to voice an opinion... but the internet nazis wont let people speak... oh dear!

Quote:
And HOW do you know that some people weren't asked their opinion, only because you weren't in on the ever so secret ".wl" meetings?


uhm, where have i said people weren't consulted? I thin i've said they maybe haven't canvassed a full range of DJ's


Quote:
You need to go over to the forums on Whitelabel.net and let them chew you up a bit...I just haven't had the time to finish stikin' a fork in ya.


I don't go to WL.net because the files are worthless to me in their current state and the selection of music isn't quite to my liking... so why would i go and pick an argument with a bunch of Whitelabel.net fan boys who belive the illusion of getting something for free means they really ARE getting ti for free?


LOL! Man, you sound like the last 2 protesters at whatever rally supporting whatever lonely cause, driving around the country in a VW BUS, with FIGHT THE POWER t-shirts on.

It's OK DUDE....we still like you.
AKIEM 4:17 AM - 9 February, 2007
Maybe whats going on here is, there are people who have and use SSL for enough time that they can actually see suggestions made become manifest in the program.

And on the otherhand you have people who do not have the program, havnt used it and so just see things from some completely different point of view.

The active user and the potential user, two diff points of view. (er perhaps)




why are you even saying shit at all on here if you dont have SSL?
how bout that question?

ps I have a Fight The Power tshirt
Sam 6:17 AM - 9 February, 2007
Guys, can we let this go?
I want to read thru all the feedback, but most of this thread is, as Monk-A said, points scoring.

For the record, we welcome all feedback, positive and negative. I want this thread back!
DJJOHNNYM 6:43 PM - 10 February, 2007
Quote:
why are you even saying shit at all on here if you dont have SSL?
how bout that question?


Because this is a GREAT WAY to find out what issues I can expect before I even BUY the product...How bout them apples?

Wait...am I doing what you CLAIM to be doing? Possibly giving feedback....FOR FREE? lol (score).

You have to realize, up until things like control vinyl, DJ'ing was mostly a HARDWARE based application. You had turntables, mixers, records, amps and speakers. That's all you needed....If something broke, it wasn't hard to fix. It wasn't an ever changing issue. That's how it was for decades.

Now, with where we are going in the future, DJ'ing is now as much SOFTWARE BASED, as it is HARDWARE based.

And we ALL know how reliable software can be. That's the issue.

Our 1200's didn't come out with firmware updates every 6 months...That took YEARS.

I'll tell what would be the ultimate solution...and I'll give you this tidbit for the cost of those .wl files.

The optimum solution would be a Serato box or Mixer with it's own OS.

One that was proprietary, and didn't crash. Almost mainframe status, remember how a mainframe would stay rock solid...forever? That's what needs to be the backbone.

The Serato box would also include the ability to add an unlimited amount of memory sticks or cards. The songs would be stored on the cards or sticks. The only thing you'd need would be an external monitor to connect to the box or mixer.

That means, no having to buy a laptop. That means, no worries of drivers or incompatibilities. No more Windows vs. Mac wars in DJ booths. The purpose of the box would be to boot Serato up, and run the program. You would have everything else (the music/crates, whatever) on your memory sticks/chips.

That's the future folks.
DJJOHNNYM 6:47 PM - 10 February, 2007
Quote:

For the record, we welcome all feedback, positive and negative. I want this thread back!


***Hands thread back to you****

I will glady submit my resources to you and give you tons of feedback, if you need it...

I just need you to send me a Serato box, and TT57. ;)
AKIEM 12:09 PM - 11 February, 2007
feedback

1. Going over sets with my ipod using WLs is annoying (like its supposed to be) but it wont stop me from using the format.

2. equalization, compression, expansion, cut, copy, past, etc., file editing is one important reason that I switched to digital. This has me choosing other formats over WL.

3. Rule against "backing up" WLs stops me from using the format altogether. It is impossible for me to operate without several redundant back ups.

A separate WL editing/riper program would solve 1 and 2. This would greatly lower the incentive to "unlock". Also it would set up a situation where "unlocked" files would be "locked" by the user. That should make the riaa suits real happy.

I dont like the idea of my files being locked to SSL in case I would possibly need to use another system one day. But I think that that would qualify as more of a MP then a YP. <----if you know what that is When/if I come to that bridge, I would deal with it then.

If I were to ignore the rule prohibeting backing up, I doubt I would get in any kind of trouble, not even sure anyone would ever find out in the first place. Also I think that this rule is actually more of a formality to satisfy lawyers. I understand exactly what it is meant to prevent (selling "back up drives" or whatever) and not meant to stop me from securing my system. I dont think Serato or riaa intend for me not to be able to secure my system. So in effect I feel that there is tacet allowance for the breaking of this rule (along with the broadcast rule). But what this does is set up a situation where I dont know exctly what rules are really supposed to be fallowed or not. Which also opens them all to questions and grey areas. Its like setting a speeding limit way too low to fallow. It turns everyone into a criminal. If Im a criminal, fuck it, why fallow any of the rules. What Im getting at is those rules need to be more explicet and specific in addressing what they are meant to prevent. Its easy to just throw blankets over everything.

Maybe Im wrong, and maybe the rule really is meant to stop me from backing up my drive? Thats some bullshit then dun.
MusicMeister 6:46 PM - 12 February, 2007
Quote:
feedback

1. Going over sets with my ipod using WLs is annoying (like its supposed to be) but it wont stop me from using the format.

It would stop me. I create short term use CD's to listen to when I drive and listening to 32kbps files just isn't going to cut it to determine if the bass line is any good.

Quote:
2. equalization, compression, expansion, cut, copy, past, etc., file editing is one important reason that I switched to digital. This has me choosing other formats over WL.

Being able to run mp3gain and to shave the file/create extended intro's is what makes DJ'ing 'creative' at another level. I agree.

Quote:
3. Rule against "backing up" WLs stops me from using the format altogether. It is impossible for me to operate without several redundant back ups.

This comes down to a legally permitted by law vs. a 'terms of use' type agreement. Even though some laws say you can make backups of copyrighted material (aimed originally at software) the terms of use are more limiting. It's just like the guys that buy tracks at iTunes for their DJ business. It's against the terms of use but they'd have to be pretty damn foolish to stop DJ's from playing them. This is another case of where to draw the line. They can make the requirements to use the service as limiting as possible but it all comes down to the fact that they can stop your ability to use the service if you violate any of the terms of use.

Most people will download, make a backup for personal use in the event of a drive failure and ignore the terms of use on this. Some of us will complain because it's overly limiting. In the end... Serato will just have to decide if they'll enforce it. It's sort of like jay-walking. Most of the time police ignore it but if you piss one off they'll write you up for it.

Quote:
A separate WL editing/riper program would solve 1 and 2. This would greatly lower the incentive to "unlock". Also it would set up a situation where "unlocked" files would be "locked" by the user. That should make the riaa suits real happy.

Being able to convert to a more commonly used format or to release a hardware player that support WL files is the only way to solve #1.

An editor would solve #2.

Very little will solve #3. I agree that it's likely a requirement put in by 'the suits' but it's there. It will either have to be pulled or language limiting the backup would make it easier to live with for most people.

Quote:
I dont like the idea of my files being locked to SSL in case I would possibly need to use another system one day. But I think that that would qualify as more of a MP then a YP. <----if you know what that is When/if I come to that bridge, I would deal with it then.

I don't like the idea of the files being locked to SSL either. If I went to a gig where I couldn't use SSL for whatever reason I'd be stuck if I wanted to play any WL tracks during that set. Which basically means that the desire of the labels for me to create exposure for them by playing the tracks isn't going to happen because I couldn't use SSL for whatever reason.

There are enough alternatives for the 'professional' or even 'semi-professional' DJ to obtain tracks that the whitelabel offerings that the whitelabel service just isn't going to matter the much. It will be a big difference for the bedroom DJ and others who now have access to those tracks that don't qualify for other services for whatever reason.

Until the serious shortcomings are addressed I can't afford to use the whitelabel files - at any price.

Well, that's my stance anyway....
DJ Yaz 5:35 AM - 14 February, 2007
Here is my $0.02. Drop the weird DRM type thing that causes bad quality on other players. Absolutely any barrier you give me or any other motivated person (see article... (www.scratchlive.net
)
...we will overcome if we feel inclined. Listen to Steve Jobs and just unlock the stuff, hopefully Apple will take it's own advice and do this as well. DRM of any kind hurts everyone and only serves as a challenge to masses of people far smarter than any one organization can ever be.
DJ Yaz 5:37 AM - 14 February, 2007
my bad, here is the link... www.engadget.com
DJ Yaz 5:43 AM - 14 February, 2007
ps, if you do read the article and have time don't miss the link to "where you at Jon" and the user feedback below it. Hilarious.
Matt G 10:42 AM - 14 February, 2007
Quote:
Listen to Steve Jobs and just unlock the stuff, hopefully Apple will take it's own advice and do this as well.


Unfortunately it's not up to us (nor Steve Jobs). That decision lies solely with the owners of the content, which is the music labels. At this stage, doing releases without rights management is not an option available to us.

We are looking at ways to make the format more palatable to DJs though.
The E Head 3:58 PM - 14 February, 2007
Some EDM is needed before it will be any use to me

As nas says hiphop is dead!!!
s42000 5:09 PM - 14 February, 2007
^^ Ask the EMD labels to foward their stuff to Serato.
AKIEM 8:09 PM - 14 February, 2007
Quote:

There are enough alternatives for the 'professional' or even 'semi-professional' DJ to obtain tracks that the whitelabel offerings that the whitelabel service just isn't going to matter the much. It will be a big difference for the bedroom DJ and others who now have access to those tracks that don't qualify for other services for whatever reason.


...which defeats the purpose yet again. If professionals/semi-professionals, DJs with an audience wont be using it then, what is it for?

The more I try to deal with the format the harder it is for me to embrace, which is too bad because I think the concept and ingenuity of the system is great.


Quote:

...we will overcome if we feel inclined. Listen to Steve Jobs and just unlock the stuff, hopefully Apple will take it's own advice and do this as well. DRM of any kind hurts everyone and only serves as a challenge to masses of people far smarter than any one organization can ever be.


I think Steve Jobs is on point, I didnt know he was on this side of the issue.

I would be more then happy to pay a nice sized deposit that would be forfeit if files given to me end up on usnet or ptp. Watermark linked to my account, fine with me.

What Im starting to think is, from riaas pov that the fight has allot less to do with how many files are copied, or cds arnt sold, or DJ play or mix. Because they keep doing things that look counter intuitive, counter productive, and that actually work against them [Drama helps sale millions] The riaa is really concerned with the changing view that society has of "intellectual property". The way the laws have been written for the last couple hundred years treats intellectual property very similar to physical property. But digital is showing a real difference physical and intellectual. "They aint making no more land". when you steal physical property there is a real loss, but when you steal or "trade" intellectual property there is no real loss. You wont even notice that anything at all is missing because there inst anything missing. So riaa is really fighting against this changing perspective and concept of "property" which in the long run is allot more important to them then loosing cd sales. The cd sales are are battles they are willing to loose because the war is about the public perception of "intellectual property" not someone downloading files.

check, if you download an mp3 but never listen to it, did you steal it? what if you erase it?

Labels simply need to adjust to the way society, culture and technology is changing, its not about typewriters and shit anymore. Its past the year 2000, its about spaceships and shit. the far sighted labels will focus on different formulas and streams of revenue, star power is still lucrative. diversify like tobacco companies. treat p2p like some sort of promotion, plug that into the formula. They cant keep suing little kids and old ladies, and kicking in the doors of their own best promoters.

rise of the police state





Quote:

We are looking at ways to make the format more palatable to DJs though.

good to hear it, Im waiting
AmphetaMarinE 9:30 AM - 15 February, 2007
Quote:

check, if you download an mp3 but never listen to it, did you steal it? what if you erase it?

Holy shit... now that is a concept right there...
hard to even get your head around how that fight would end up...

"You stole our song"
"Nah mang... You still HAVE your song...."
"But you got it for free without our consent"
"So? Is your copy missing?"
"But you didn't pay for the priveledge of listening to it..."
"I didn't listen to it... Been too busy..."
"But we weren't paid when you downloaded it..."
"Course not mang, I deleted it without listening to it..."
"You still stole it, you'll hear from our lawyers!!"
"Tell em I said what's up beeches."

Kinda a cool concept to get your head around who is in the wrong there....
DJ Yaz 1:09 PM - 15 February, 2007
Quote:


Unfortunately it's not up to us (nor Steve Jobs). That decision lies solely with the owners of the content, which is the music labels. At this stage, doing releases without rights management is not an option available to us.

We are looking at ways to make the format more palatable to DJs though.


I understand Matt, and excuse my simplistic comment and lack of clarity. I'm really trying to voice my frustration to labels so maybe you can pass this along... and in the mean time I look forward to your innovative solution to this DRM Serato problem.

Here is the apple manifesto for those who have not seen it...
www.apple.com


I tend not to be a thief, in contrast to the labels opinion of me and everyone else. Basically what I do now is I take the $200 or so dollars that I used to spend at record stores every month and put it in my pocket. Altough I wish I didn't have to... I don't buy many tracks on Itunes because the DRM is a big hassle for SSL, and a lot of tracks I want/need aren't available there. My music spending now is the lowest it's been since I was 10 years old.

So there you go labels, if you are reading this... you win. You locked up the music so well that I don't want it... not from you anyway.

Here is the new paradigm that scares the shit out anyone with intellectual property rights...

If you want people to pay for your product you better give them a reason to, and make them want to! If they have no reason to or don't want to you are screwed. You can't really force people to do to many things they don't want to do these days (in the digital realm anyway).

And to you guys saying that you haven't stolen anything because they still have it... come on?!? You know it's stealing, the fact that they still have a copy changes the nature of the harm you inflict but you still inflict harm. Ultimately if you love music you want to reward those that make it, and if you are reading this you must love music. Why else would you be here?

The real problem is that the labels are one step short of useless. Artists don't need labels, they don't need distribution, they don't need anything. If I were an artist now I would go one step beyond the Prince model and I would just give it all away. I would make my albums available for free on my website and every file sharing service and ask for donations from people who enjoyed it. Even if my gross revenue was far lower than other artists my net income would be huge!

The strongest force of the internet revolution is disintermediation... ebay, google, and even this forum all serve as examples. For the most part labels exist as an Intermediate (middle man).

What I am saying is a paradigm shift is needed from looking at the evil in everyone and trying to lock everything to seeing the good in everyone and giving it away... because either is a self fulfilling prophecy.

I'll step down from the soapbox now.
MusicMeister 2:23 PM - 15 February, 2007
Quote:
Quote:

check, if you download an mp3 but never listen to it, did you steal it? what if you erase it?

Holy shit... now that is a concept right there...
hard to even get your head around how that fight would end up...

"You stole our song"
"Nah mang... You still HAVE your song...."
"But you got it for free without our consent"
"So? Is your copy missing?"
"But you didn't pay for the priveledge of listening to it..."
"I didn't listen to it... Been too busy..."
"But we weren't paid when you downloaded it..."
"Course not mang, I deleted it without listening to it..."
"You still stole it, you'll hear from our lawyers!!"
"Tell em I said what's up beeches."

Kinda a cool concept to get your head around who is in the wrong there....


What you're not understanding is the difference between copyright, IP, and the different types of licenses.

If you copy the track without paying for it you didn't pay for the license.

Every copy of a track requires a license be purchased for duplication. Even if you preform the music yourself you have to pay for a duplication license to the original composer/lyrisist who own the copyright to the song.

I've posted elsewhere about all this (in the legal MP3 thread IIRC).... but it has very little to do with this thread because it's about Whitelabel.... These are promo tracks that the artist never gets paid for anyway.
DJJOHNNYM 3:40 PM - 15 February, 2007
This is like you breaking into the Corporate Headquarters of McDonald's and snapping a picture of the ingredients used in their SPECIAL SAUCE on BIG MACS, leaving, and then a day later, deleting the pictures....

McDonald's still has a copy of the special sauce.

You made a copy without their permission.

Oh, so you deleted it without spreading it around? How do we
know somebody didn't steal a COPY from you when you weren't looking?

***Sends Ronald McDonald over to your crib to serve you***
DJJOHNNYM 3:40 PM - 15 February, 2007
And remember, there have been OVER A BILLION SERVED....

Don't be next..
AmphetaMarinE 4:15 PM - 15 February, 2007
AHAHAHAHA
All i can picture is ronald out front of my hosue with a crowbar...
Funny picture :)
AKIEM 9:35 PM - 15 February, 2007
Quote:

And to you guys saying that you haven't stolen anything because they still have it... come on?!? You know it's stealing, the fact that they still have a copy changes the nature of the harm you inflict but you still inflict harm. Ultimately if you love music you want to reward those that make it, and if you are reading this you must love music. Why else would you be here?


not saying that its not "theft", the law is the law
or even saying there is no "harm", although that is allot harder to quantify
every single download does not equal one lost sale like RIAA would have you believe

Quote:

If you copy the track without paying for it you didn't pay for the license.

absolutely true. the point was that it is different then a "theft" where there is a quantifiable loss. in this case the so called loss is connected to a supposed future intent to purchase that is being skirted (as riaa would have you believe). But the simple fact is, the consumer would not have purchased every single file that they where able to dl instead. Some sure, but not all. second there are plenty of CDs sold because of initial dling that otherwise would not be. same with mixtapes

Quote:

but it has very little to do with this thread because it's about Whitelabel.... These are promo tracks that the artist never gets paid for anyway.

I think it has everything to do with this thread, because the "lock" is not indented to stop DJs from doing all the legal things that we do with promos, rather the lock is meant to keep it out of the hands of the general consumer. In the hands of the the consumer it is no longer a "promo" but is now a lost sale (according to riaa). If that were not the case then we wouldnt need a lock.



Quote:
This is like you breaking into the Corporate Headquarters of McDonald's and snapping a picture of the ingredients used in their SPECIAL SAUCE on BIG MACS, leaving, and then a day later, deleting the pictures....


Its not like breaking in, because you would catch a B&E charge if that were the case.

Its more like taking a Big Mac to the forensics lab, determining exactly what goes into the Special Sauce then making your own to eat, or give away. They would have you believe that each burger you made at home was equal to not buying a burger from the restaurant. Some years ago I remember an old lady was sued for putting out a recipe book of fast food like MDs, Oreos, Snickers, that she inferred from lots of tasting, trial and error. not B&E.



the point I am making is not that it IS legal by some loop hole or whatever. Simply that it is different while riaa would have you believe its the same.

you cant treat "intellectual property" the same as "physical property" anymore.



If you have a bike for sale, and I come over and ride off with it, you have a real loss. Your bike is gone, you are negative one bike, and you can not get the money for it that you might have.

But, if I come over, and pull out a machine that makes a digital copy of the bike then ride off, there is no "loss". You still have the bike for sale and will get money for it. riaa would have you believe that the loss is in that I did not purchase the bike from you and that I would have otherwise which is strange. How do you know that I intended to buy anything? Further, if all I did was store the digital representation of the bike on my device, later erasing it. there is even less harm if any at all.

again Im only saying that it is different, not legal or ethical to do

trust I wish that I got payed for every single dl version of records I put out too.


no, dont sleep on McDs, they have a rather large private army
nik39 9:50 PM - 15 February, 2007
I disagree on the no loss arguement, AKIEM.
AKIEM 10:45 PM - 15 February, 2007
nah g, I dint say there was absolutely no loss, its just not what riaa will say it is. you cant add what people "would" have purchased because its unknown. the loss is not quantifiable. a subverted intent to purchase, is not the same as a cd stolen out the store.

www.marginalrevolution.com

all Im saying is that the loss is different.

on the one hand (physical) you are out what was actually taken. on the other hand (intellectual) you are out what might have been purchased.

its two different things
nik39 10:50 PM - 15 February, 2007
Quote:
nah g, I dint say there was absolutely no loss, its just not what riaa will say it is. you cant add what people "would" have purchased because its unknown.

Okay, thats absoluty right. The same argument is pulled on people who pirate software.

Quote:
all Im saying is that the loss is different.

Definitly, but what is the big point here? I mean, you cant really "revert" the loss by deleting the file. That makes not much sense to me. The losses which IP owners have is indeed dramatic, I think. But the companies forgot the side effects of bootlegging.

Commodore C64... it was so popular b/c of pirated games. The moment something can be bootlegged its getting more attention, more hardware sales, which also affect the software sales again. There are numerous examples.
AKIEM 11:21 PM - 15 February, 2007
Im just sort of framing the situation by different frames to get a better look at it.

If a DLd file sits on your computer but you do not listen to it what harm is there?

people have a finite amount of time, and a finite amount of cash. There is not enough actual time for all the illegal mp3s to even be listened to. and there isnt enough cash for them all to be purchased.
nik39 12:13 AM - 16 February, 2007
I know, you have a valid point there, no diggy. But I am not talking about the rubbish which you give only one listen (or none...) and then forget about it. Even if you just use it once... for example at a private new years party with an iPod or winamp... you are *using* it and thats the point where some harm has been done to the IP owners.
AKIEM 10:54 AM - 16 February, 2007
as the devils advocate: (or maybe the other way round)

what harm is it to you, when you are incapable of being aware of this "harm"?

Is there an actual "loss" or simply not a gain?


the IP owner was not there or did not have the right system in place to collect.

If the toll booth is empty many will drive through without paying.

how many people find a $100 bill, report it as income and pay the tax on it?
nik39 12:41 PM - 16 February, 2007
Quote:
what harm is it to you, when you are incapable of being aware of this "harm"?

I dont know if thats the proper question to ask b/c with that question millions of illegally (and maybe commercially used) downloaded IP would be okay, b/c the owner doesnt know. Its morally not right. You are supporting the IP. And we all know how this will affect the IP's work in the future.


Quote:
Is there an actual "loss" or simply not a gain?

Good question. In the end... does it make a difference?


Quote:
the IP owner was not there or did not have the right system in place to collect.

Thats true.


Quote:
If the toll booth is empty many will drive through without paying.

If that was always true, we wouldnt even argue in this thread. We would download music from p2p sources only.


Quote:
how many people find a $100 bill, report it as income and pay the tax on it?

You are hurting the government/country. You need to be less cruel than hurting a person, the IP probably.
AKIEM 10:29 PM - 16 February, 2007
Quote:
Quote:
what harm is it to you, when you are incapable of being aware of this "harm"?

I dont know if thats the proper question to ask b/c with that question millions of illegally (and maybe commercially used) downloaded IP would be okay, b/c the owner doesnt know. Its morally not right. You are supporting the IP. And we all know how this will affect the IP's work in the future.


its morally wrong because it is illegal. IP owners make their living+ because the laws are written the way they are. its not ethical to skirt the law that feeds+ people. but if the law was different it wouldnt be unethical. If the laws had never been written the way they are now, no one would expect to be paid the way they are now.

example: advertisers pay to run adds on radio and tv. If you use a hd recorder to skip the adds are you morally wrong? advertisers did want to outlaw hd program recorders. do you have a moral obligation to pay attention to the adds? are you wrong for going and making a sandwich or skipping the adds? the devices could be made illegal. people who use the hd recorders are stripping the advertisers of what they paid for. but its not immoral because its not illegal. and advertisers have had to adjust their formulas based on the advent of the recorders. Im sure advertisers would love it if you couldnt change the channel while the add was running.

I enjoy architecture greatly, especially in NYC. suppose there where some sort of device that could tax my viewing enjoyment and I would pay a royalty to the architect, or IP owner. If I circumvent the device, I would be ethically wrong because the IP owner is reliant on the income.


Quote:

Quote:
Is there an actual "loss" or simply not a gain?

Good question. In the end... does it make a difference?


sure, a "real loss" is different then a "possible gain."

100-100 not the same as 0+x

Quote:

Quote:
how many people find a $100 bill, report it as income and pay the tax on it?

You are hurting the government/country. You need to be less cruel than hurting a person, the IP probably.



the gov is people too.


side note: Ive always thought it strange that you can transfer IP. I mean its just weird that Michal Jackson controls The Beatles records.
nik39 6:05 PM - 17 February, 2007
Quote:
its morally wrong because it is illegal.

No, I meant something different. It is morally wrong, not because its illegal. Other reasons. Maybe I should have use the word "ethical"? I just feel that its wrong, not because the law says it. Matter of fact, I could give a ish about laws when it comes to morality. Hope you dont misunderstand ;)
AKIEM 9:17 PM - 17 February, 2007
I was sort of just using 'moral' and 'ethical' interchangeably, to cover right and wrong.

Generally speaking laws are meant to enforce and outline ethical practices. What society sees as ethical changes over time, and so should the laws. But often times there is a discord between the two. thats one thing. Then there are the unethical laws, laws not meant to enforce ethics, and ethics without any laws to aid them being fallowed and so on. But this situation is something different (depending how you look at it).

Artists need to make a living this is absolutely true(and dont I know it). but...

Imagine in the future, the concept that says every single person who is entertained by, hears the work of an artist should pay for the entertainment value that they get by whatever means possible was enforced. And the technology easily made it possible for whatever music playing device to identify every single person listening, and extract a royalty and of course pay the tax. The artist would be making a living on these automatic royalties. Would it be "wrong" to shield against the device automatically extracting the royalty? Well yes because the artist would not see the income. But its the law (and tech) that would make that scenario possible. If the laws are not written that way then the artist would not expect this stream of income.

see, its the law that created the stream of income that circumventing would be unethical.

In our time people en mass are deciding that making a copy (poor quality at that) is something different then stealing a cd out of the store. And because it is different they are skirting the law. Maybe the law should reflect the difference instead. People simply do not feel that they are doing anything wrong. Somewhat like changing the station on an advertisement.

What if the law said that it was illegal to make a profit off of the music but legal to digitally disseminate it freely, as free as it moves through air. Then artists would not expect income from this stream. Therefore it would not be unethical to download. Probably p2p would be looked at like a promotional device. Probably there would be an even larger emphasis on profiting from more tangible things like merchandise, and ticket sales.

Music and musicians have been around forever, even before the concept of IP. It wont be the end of the musician however it plays out.

so to bring it back around, labels should freaking forget about trying to enforce some shit thats not enforceable and concentrate on existing and alternate streams.

do they worry about five people sitting in a car all listening to one cd? shouldnt everyone in the car pay for the entertainment value that they are receiving?

then I wont have to bother with these WL limits.
nik39 1:34 PM - 18 February, 2007
Quote:
Would it be "wrong" to shield against the device automatically extracting the royalty? Well yes because the artist would not see the income.

I would not agree with such "spy" tactics, I would rather pay a flat fee (buying the CD) and be good to go. I wouldnt feel doing anything wrong at all.

Quote:
What if the law said that it was illegal to make a profit off of the music but legal to digitally disseminate it freely, as free as it moves through air. Then artists would not expect income from this stream. Therefore it would not be unethical to download. Probably p2p would be looked at like a promotional device.

Sounds like an interesting idea. Of course it would change my views of my actions being morally okay or not would change, but not because of the rights per se, its because there *is* a way how artists get paid.
AKIEM 5:19 AM - 19 February, 2007
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Quote:
Would it be "wrong" to shield against the device automatically extracting the royalty? Well yes because the artist would not see the income.

I would not agree with such "spy" tactics, I would rather pay a flat fee (buying the CD) and be good to go. I wouldnt feel doing anything wrong at all.


see, my whole point is that much of these laws are only a little better then arbitrary, and are more based on what the technology and culture will allow, what can be reasonably taxed and extracted because it can be. which in turn creates the industry.

things that can be locked and taxed will be locked and taxed. If it cant, then there is no industry. more often then not, technology over the centuries has allowed for more and more types of items to be locked, more land, water, access, people, and IP. along comes digital which effectively does more unlocking then locking and the industries built on the locks are threatened. new technology and new laws always threaten industries based on older technology or older laws.

the music industry as it is now, is squarely based on two things, the IP laws (which if reasonable are still arbitrary) and control over the medium. analog makes for good control over the medium. the internet and digital erase that control. and with the control gone people are (at least by action) questioning the IP laws which actually run in accordance with the older technology, not new.

imagine, as ridiculous as it might sound, that music where "invented" this year. and the musicians had commonly spread music freely over the internet without charging anyone. and the rapid movement of this new art form being transmitted worldwide garnered great wealth for the practitioners through appearances, (other) merchandise, sponsorship, etc. it would probably be a hard sell to suggest that the music should be locked up and a fee charged for it. I mean, it is just sound that floats through the air, how can you charge for that?

yes the answer is, but this is this reality, this history. my answer: true, and this reality is changing

an interesting parallel to the above is the birth of Hip-Hop. remember that the first MCs were doing what they did in the park, block paries, the rec center. And they gained fame through the circulation of tapes, dubbed, mostly for free. It wasnt until Sugar Hill was MCs even considering the 'song' format allowing the music to be packaged up into a commodity. then they called it disco, and so on. And its that early ethic, cultural outlook that exists even today in all the cultural differences and arguments over sampling and mixtapes.


back to the "spy tactics". what if it where decided that music will no longer be available for purchase through any physical medium, because it was outdated like 8-track, not cost effective, less efficient, and enabled piracy. The only paid format was the auto royalty format. Its your choice to be in earshot, so dont try to steal from the artist by shielding the credit collection device, you could go to jail or pay 7 million credits per minute of illegal pirate listening.

as hard as it would be to implement the technology almost exists now. and we do have automatic toll booths, speed right through and your cash is automatically deducted. go ahead and shield the device, a camera will snap a shot of you and your tags. dont they want devices in UK cars that tax per mile driven???

the point is that the laws are arbitrary and the industry is built on the law.

outlaw toll roads because they suck, and say goodbye to the private road industry



Quote:
What if the law said that it was illegal to make a profit off of the music but legal to digitally disseminate it freely, as free as it moves through air. Then artists would not expect income from this stream. Therefore it would not be unethical to download. Probably p2p would be looked at like a promotional device.

Sounds like an interesting idea. Of course it would change my views of my actions being morally okay or not would change, but not because of the rights per se, its because there *is* a way how artists get paid.

except that they only get paid that way because the law was written that way in the first place. lots of industry exist entirely because of a certain set of laws being written the way they are. change the law and the industry dissolves.

personally, Ive made a living exclusively off the music industry for a couple years short of an entire decade. Im not afraid of decriminalising p2p even in the future when there will be no need for compression and whatnot.
nik39 10:22 AM - 19 February, 2007
Quote:
things that can be locked and taxed will be locked and taxed. If it cant, then there is no industry.

Thats not entirely true. How do you explain Open Source software?

Quote:
the music industry as it is now, is squarely based on two things, the IP laws (which if reasonable are still arbitrary) and control over the medium. analog makes for good control over the medium. the internet and digital erase that control. and with the control gone people are (at least by action) questioning the IP laws which actually run in accordance with the older technology, not new.

I dont think its b/c the control is gone that people are asking those IP laws. For example: In Germany it is allowed (and always has been allowed) to make copies from any audio for yourself, private, to even give copies to friends *legally* (friends = people you know personally, internet friendships esp. p2p "contacts" are *not* covered). Now with CDs lately a lot of CDs are getting copyright protected (I heard in the states only a small percentage of audio CDs are copyright protected). Thats not a big deal, cause there are known way to circumvent the protection for some c/p schemes. However for about 2 years there is another law which doesnt allow circumventing c/p, which in fact makes the right to make copies for yourself useless. Thats were people start to bitch at those laws.


Quote:
as hard as it would be to implement the technology almost exists now. and we do have automatic toll booths, speed right through and your cash is automatically deducted. go ahead and shield the device, a camera will snap a shot of you and your tags.

Sad, but true. They are planning a law which allows all IPSs in Germany (and EU wide!) to keep a record of *any* internet connection you make, that includes any server you visit, *EVERYTHING*. No, I dont have anything to hide, but just the bare fact that they have the vision of any human being suspicious makes me vommit. There are preps for complaint of unconstitutionality and I will support them, no diggy. The same goes for everything what you do outside in the public. Fuck it. 9-11 is being abuse as an excuse to restricts rights and freedom. 1984 and Orwell is getting reality.
DJ Clark Breaking-Records.com 12:03 PM - 19 February, 2007
Okay, so if a monkey steals a tree out of a forest, but doesn't drop it, does that constitute stealing... because we all know he might have fleas.
AmphetaMarinE 1:33 PM - 19 February, 2007
Quote:
Okay, so if a monkey steals a tree out of a forest, but doesn't drop it, does that constitute stealing... because we all know he might have fleas.

wow.
deep...

;)
AKIEM 9:34 PM - 19 February, 2007
Quote:
Quote:
things that can be locked and taxed will be locked and taxed. If it cant, then there is no industry.

Thats not entirely true. How do you explain Open Source software?


example of what Im talking about working, or at least being worked on




Quote:

I dont think its b/c the control is gone that people are asking those IP laws. For example: In Germany it is allowed (and always has been allowed) to make copies from any audio for yourself, private, to even give copies to friends *legally* (friends = people you know personally, internet friendships esp. p2p "contacts" are *not* covered). Now with CDs lately a lot of CDs are getting copyright protected (I heard in the states only a small percentage of audio CDs are copyright protected). Thats not a big deal, cause there are known way to circumvent the protection for some c/p schemes. However for about 2 years there is another law which doesnt allow circumventing c/p, which in fact makes the right to make copies for yourself useless. Thats were people start to bitch at those laws.


right, but when people get on line, knowing that dLing whatever hot song, is "illegal" (outside of outside of doing it maliciously, selfishly) they have a set of rationalities.
"Im not stealing, there is no loss"
"everyone is doing it"
"they should sell it to me, only place I can get it"
"Im not going to listen to it anyway"
"its not even a cd"
"they dont even know I have it"
"its only a low quality dub"
"Im a freaking DJ and dont even like this crap"

To me, all of this constitute a new cultural view about IP, and should at least be taken into account and reflected in the new laws. Theres something wrong when an industry that exist because of laws has so much clout in the maintenance and straightening of those laws. I suppose it will show when 12 year old girls have to fight charges of $750 per DL. In most free countries, government is supposed to be the will of the People, not the will of a set of powerful industries. most of us know where that goes. maybe we will see an IP 9/11 too.



Quote:
Quote:
as hard as it would be to implement the technology almost exists now. and we do have automatic toll booths, speed right through and your cash is automatically deducted. go ahead and shield the device, a camera will snap a shot of you and your tags.

Sad, but true. They are planning a law which allows all IPSs in Germany (and EU wide!) to keep a record of *any* internet connection you make, that includes any server you visit, *EVERYTHING*. No, I dont have anything to hide, but just the bare fact that they have the vision of any human being suspicious makes me vommit. There are preps for complaint of unconstitutionality and I will support them, no diggy. The same goes for everything what you do outside in the public. Fuck it. 9-11 is being abuse as an excuse to restricts rights and freedom. 1984 and Orwell is getting reality.


I think in the US ISPs do keep a record of your activity to some degree which can be subpoenaed by law enforcement, same with cell phone records and whatever else. Ive come to live with most of this crap like a good little boy is supposed to. I do my grown man shit other places.

Another point I wanted to bring out is the logical absurdities that some of these laws create. If I own the CD its illegal for me to DL the mp3. But I can rip an mp3. right? I always get confused about that rule.

Sampling half a snare, just the attack, eq it, normalize, pitch shift, reverb and play it in my song is against the rules. Before the sampling lawsuits and new laws there was a set of sampling ethics in place mostly adhered to by beatmakers that set up a type of fairness. maybe not perfect but that could have been used as a framework for a new set of real laws. None of these strange absurdities would exist on the edges.

Its the absurdities that open the door for law breaking. Bringing it back to the WLs "no back up" rule.

then again, tyranny needs broken tail lights
AKIEM 9:37 PM - 19 February, 2007
Quote:
Okay, so if a monkey steals a tree out of a forest, but doesn't drop it, does that constitute stealing... because we all know he might have fleas.


ah, but should the lumberjack get paid for clearing the tree? we all know lumberjacks have crabs
nik39 12:22 AM - 20 February, 2007
Quote:
To me, all of this constitute a new cultural view about IP, and should at least be taken into account and reflected in the new laws

Agreed.


Quote:
Another point I wanted to bring out is the logical absurdities that some of these laws create. If I own the CD its illegal for me to DL the mp3. But I can rip an mp3. right? I always get confused about that rule.

Silly, isnt it?
Technically it makes sense, cause in the moment when you dl from p2p networks you make it accessible to others as well, that might be the problem.

I am dreaming: Proof that you own the vinyl - get a free downloaded (watermarked) mp3 copy. Awwww man :)
AKIEM 9:15 PM - 20 February, 2007
well there you go!

I expect unlocked WLs by the end of the week, thanks :)
nik39 12:43 PM - 2 April, 2007
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Listen to Steve Jobs and just unlock the stuff, hopefully Apple will take it's own advice and do this as well.


Unfortunately it's not up to us (nor Steve Jobs). That decision lies solely with the owners of the content, which is the music labels. At this stage, doing releases without rights management is not an option available to us.

We are looking at ways to make the format more palatable to DJs though.


Well, EMI is officially supporting non DRM tracks now www.emigroup.com <- click :

Quote:

EMI Music launches DRM-free superior sound quality downloads across its entire digital repertoire

EMI Group CEO Eric Nicoli today hosted a press conference at EMI's headquarters in London where he announced that EMI Music is launching DRM-free superior quality downloads across its entire digital repertoire and that Apple's iTunes Store will be the first online music store to sell EMI's new downloads. Nicoli was joined by Apple CEO Steve Jobs. The event also featured a musical performance by The Good, The Bad & The Queen.

On this page you can find an audio webcast of the press conference which will be available for live streaming at 1pm London time with on demand archived streaming and MP3 download available shortly afterwards, the press release and a copy of the presentation slides.


Hooooray!
nik39 12:45 PM - 2 April, 2007
Quote:
Press release:

EMI Music launches DRM-free superior sound quality downloads across its entire digital repertoire

Apple's iTunes store to be the first online music store to sell EMI's new downloads

London, 2 April 2007 -- EMI Music today announced that it is launching new premium downloads for retail on a global basis, making all of its digital repertoire available at a much higher sound quality than existing downloads and free of digital rights management (DRM) restrictions.

The new higher quality DRM-free music will complement EMI's existing range of standard DRM-protected downloads already available. From today, EMI's retailers will be offered downloads of tracks and albums in the DRM-free audio format of their choice in a variety of bit rates up to CD quality. EMI is releasing the premium downloads in response to consumer demand for high fidelity digital music for use on home music systems, mobile phones and digital music players. EMI's new DRM-free products will enable full interoperability of digital music across all devices and platforms.

Eric Nicoli, CEO of EMI Group, said, "Our goal is to give consumers the best possible digital music experience. By providing DRM-free downloads, we aim to address the lack of interoperability which is frustrating for many music fans. We believe that offering consumers the opportunity to buy higher quality tracks and listen to them on the device or platform of their choice will boost sales of digital music.

"Apple have been a true pioneer in digital music, and we are delighted that they share our vision of an interoperable market that provides consumers with greater choice, quality, convenience and value for money."

"Selling digital music DRM-free is the right step forward for the music industry," said Steve Jobs, Apple's CEO. "EMI has been a great partner for iTunes and is once again leading the industry as the first major music company to offer its entire digital catalogue DRM-free."

Apple's iTunes Store (www.itunes.com) is the first online music store to receive EMI's new premium downloads. Apple has announced that iTunes will make individual AAC format tracks available from EMI artists at twice the sound quality of existing downloads, with their DRM removed, at a price of $1.29/€1.29/£0.99. iTunes will continue to offer consumers the ability to pay $0.99/€0.99/£0.79 for standard sound quality tracks with DRM still applied. Complete albums from EMI Music artists purchased on the iTunes Store will automatically be sold at the higher sound quality and DRM-free, with no change in the price. Consumers who have already purchased standard tracks or albums with DRM will be able to upgrade their digital music for $0.30/€0.30/£0.20 per track. All EMI music videos will also be available on the iTunes Store DRM-free with no change in price.

EMI is introducing a new wholesale price for premium single track downloads, while maintaining the existing wholesale price for complete albums. EMI expects that consumers will be able to purchase higher quality DRM-free downloads from a variety of digital music stores within the coming weeks, with each retailer choosing whether to sell downloads in AAC, WMA, MP3 or other unprotected formats of their choice. Music fans will be able to purchase higher quality DRM-free digital music for personal use, and listen to it on a wide range of digital music players and music-enabled phones.

EMI's move follows a series of experiments it conducted recently. Norah Jones's "Thinking About You", Relient K's "Must've Done Something Right", and Lily Allen's "Littlest Things" were all made available for sale in the MP3 format in trials held at the end of last year.

EMI Music will continue to employ DRM as appropriate to enable innovative digital models such as subscription services (where users pay a monthly fee for unlimited access to music), super-distribution (allowing fans to share music with their friends) and time-limited downloads (such as those offered by ad-supported services).

Nicoli added: "Protecting the intellectual property of EMI and our artists is as important as ever, and we will continue to work to fight piracy in all its forms and to educate consumers. We believe that fans will be excited by the flexibility that DRM-free formats provide, and will see this as an incentive to purchase more of our artists' music."
AKIEM 9:22 PM - 2 April, 2007
excellent

I told them to do it. now they are
Dj KaGeN 4:40 AM - 12 April, 2007
I moved my whitelabel files from my test machine to my external drive. I tried to import them - no files. I placed the folder whitelabel.net in the Import folder. What am I doing wrong?
Serato
Pene 10:07 PM - 12 April, 2007
If I understand you right what you probably need to do is copy the whitelabel files into the Auto Import folder on your external drive...
[Alternatively, it will probably work if you leave you whitelabel.net folder where you have it and just put one of the whitelabel files in the Auto Import folder]

Let me know if you still can't get it to work :)
Dj KaGeN 4:56 AM - 13 April, 2007
I'll try that.. thanks.
DJ_Mike_Coquilla 4:17 PM - 13 April, 2007
cool
DJ Yaz 2:47 AM - 19 June, 2007
It appears the music biz is moving away from DRM. Interesting.

I know this is old news now but I wonder if it will affect whitelabel.net?

www.apple.com
Matt G 4:06 AM - 19 June, 2007
I'd say it remains to be seen whether the music industry gives up on DRM. EMI's experiment will be observed very closely by the other majors, and some of them possibly making decisions based on that. Although most of them will likely have already made very firm decisions on the use of DRM, and will need quite some convincing to change their minds. Apple is certainly very influential, but the majors aren't easily pushed around when they don't want to be ;)

As to how EMI's move affects Whitelabel.net, I'm not sure that it does. Whitelabel.net is for promoting music prior to its wider release to the public. Pre-release music is something labels are very cautious about due to the damage that can come from music getting out to the public through the net before it gets officially released to shops. I think we've all seen those times when so-and-so's unreleased album slips out onto the net, throwing the label into a panic and forcing them to change all sorts of aspects of their intended release of the album.
Spyroll 4:20 AM - 12 November, 2008
I want to keep my Whitelabel.net files on my external, where my entire library and crates reside, but Serato doesn't seem to recognize the Auto Import folder nor the Whitelabel.net folder that I copied into it. Even after I deleted the internal's Scratchlive folder before starting SSL, instead of reading the Import folders in the external Scratchlive folder, It just creates a new Auto Import and Whitelabel.net folder on the internal drive's Scratchlive folder everytime I start up Serato.

How can I make it so I can Auto Import whitelabel.net files from my external?
Jose C 2:08 AM - 13 November, 2008
Hi Spyroll,

Are you using a Mac or Windows machine?
Spyroll 10:54 PM - 13 November, 2008
I'm using a Mac. Leopard.

Serato is up to date.