Smart Playlists... look into it.

Okay cool, that's the reason I posted this thread. I want to get the most use that I can out of Serato, and at thge moment I'm lost on why itunes is such a big deal.

smart playlists make your life about 1,000 times easier

+1 =)

-1

Read thru the help section... see how much fun Itunes is when shit gets sideways on you. The veteran Itunes users like it, as they should. But there is a secret society of graduated Itunes scholars that know all the pitfalls to avoid.

for me - 1. it's another program that nags to be updated and you best pray that SSL keeps up with them. 2. If you have an external drive with all your tunes on it, you MUST always launch Itunes with it connected, or you WILL botch your Itunes db. 3. Buy somehting in Itunes, you still need to do a mixo-chango to the file to get it to run in SSL. $. And there is plaenty of chat about extra folder that appear in SSL when using Itunes, again a little nit, but still adds to my pile of reasons NOT to fug with it. I rely on good organization of file folders and do the rest within SSL.

-1 here too

I can't stand that stuff that shows up in SSL and you can't delete it. I would have more of that stuff than the number of crates I use.

True, but in practice a new version of iTunes has never broken any SSL version— even when Apple added folder playlists in verison 6 (which SSL will support with a future version I'd imagine when they introduce subcrates).


I think the latest version helps in this regard... I've had it launch a couple times without my external drive connected and it hasn't botched my db yet... your mileage may vary of course but 7 seems really stable in this regard. (One workaround is to have a separate account just for SSL and one for just messing around if you use your machine for other tasks—which is generally a good idea anyway.)

@SpinThis! - I think you have further proven my point in a round about way. The variables of versions, and finding/knowing pitfalls is just not worth the risk to me. Those not savy with the program would surely go in to a pure panicy hell if there library deciced not to show up while at a gig, and it was directly related to some verison/some checkbox/something randown facet that Itunes had a direct bearing on. I have a tough enough time staying abreast of additional features in SSL versions let alone the changes in versions of Itunes.

Actually I think you totally missed my point:


Everything involves a small amount of risk. I'm pointing out that risk isn't very substantiated: 1) there's never been a case of a new version of iTunes actually breaking SSL; 2) you have power over what upgrades you install. Especially with point 2), I mean seriously: if you upgrade to a new version of iTunes or SSL before a gig without fully testing first, you're asking for problems anyway.

By and large, iTunes save me way more time than any trouble it causes. Obviously your mileage varies.

can someone please explain more about smart playlists and how they work?

This should help -->> www.apple.com

Adding on to the Apple link above, for example, you might like to have a "recent hip-hop" smart playlist that automatically adds any songs you've added within the last month. As time goes on, that playlist will constantly get updated so you don't have to add or remove songs manually.

another example: a smart playlist to list all "house" or "techno" tracks you've rated 4 stars or more, are mp3 files and are from years 2001 to 2004 and are on the "hooj" record label.

Of course these are just examples; the beauty is it can save you a ton of work. Why folks choose to belabor with their OS and doing things manual is beyond me.

Smart playlists are awesome. But subcrates within SSL will be even better... (looking forward to 1.7)

I dont understand subcrates, what would you use them for?

I fully understood you, I'm going to take a moment to further explain myself. I get that Itunes and SSL have worked with each other, complimenting SSL with smart playlists. I'd also like to state that there are a LARGE number of folks here that are NOT computer savy by any strech of the imignation, not to mention those that can barely tie their shoes and think pissing matches on forums are cool. So with such a diverse crowd at hand, the addition of another piece of software that integrates with and can cause alarm during a future update that DOES happen to interfere, there is nothing to expect short of chaos. It has been proven time and time again that people are not backing up, setting restore points, ghosting - whatever the case maybe to reverse the process should shit hit the fan, we all know that uninstalling an app doesn't neccesarily mean you have a get out of jail free card. Taking for granted that there will never be an issue is just rolling the dice vegas style. And yes, you did see you noting this in your second point, I fear you're taking this too lightly. But being a strong member of a forum, you really need to think outside your personnal talents and generalize to the populus at hand. I have tried Itunes, and found it to be more of pain, than as asset. For those that have used it before purchasing SSL, they may find benefits that they cannot live without and will take their gained knowledge and use it to their benefit. But blindly selling people this application is if it is a cinch, is simply a bit misguiding in my book. It will take getting used to, learing the ins & outs. And a quick analysis of the HELP section dictates that MOST DO NOT.

This is a tab off topic, but it's sort of like the trend that is happening with everyone thinking the Mac is better than a PC. Then they get involved with a Mac and start here seeking answers to questions that they never should be asking in the first place.

in the time it took me to type that Shaun has given a link to another website... Damn, that's funny!

is this a good way of summing this ish up, cuz i am still confused as hell.

Do smart playlists essentially take anything that you download or rip or whatever or your harddrive and automatically place them in SSL?
in other words, instead of going thru and manually importing each song one by one and dropping them into crates, will they do that process automatically, thus eliminating the chances of over looking a track during the manual importing process? or am i way off?

I tried iTunes, I really did. But I'm just not happy with the end product. It's integration with other applications isn't guaranteed and upgrading versions of iTunes has even been known to 'break' applications that worked previously - especially if they rely on any of the key programming libraries. In this respect Apple is almost as bad as Microsoft.

I've opted for other solutions to iTunes but it does limit interoperability with other applications. I can just ask easily script an export from MediaMonkey based on a search as I can to deal with the headaches from using iTunes.

If I was on a mac I might feel differently since it's integrated into the operating system much more effectively than on the pc.

But in the end... iTunes just doesn't 'do it' for me... I need a more feature rich music management solution - and Media Monkey has filled that need.

Basically... count this as a -1 too... ;-)

thanks for the help in explaining smart playlists.

i don't think they're for me.

neither is itunes.

i've been a windows itunes user since the beginning, but it's never performed quite as well as it should. especially with this new version, which seems to be incredibly buggy. (i've recently reverted to version 6).

SSL is a great piece of software and after only gigging out with it for a couple months, i'm already really pretty comfortable with it... i definitely don't see the need to complicate a good situation with the addition of a known imperfect piece of software.

as i've heard the SSL guys say... if it ain't broke...

@musicmiester what does media monkey encompass that itunes doesnt?

This is my understanding of them, and if it is the case, then that is just awesome, and I will explain by describing how I would set up my crates/subcrates:

First, I create crates for each main genre that I use in DJing - hip hop/rap, drum and bass, rock, r&b, etc.

Then you would be able to create crates within these crates, i.e. subcrates, so you would have something like this...

Rock
-Alternative
-Classic
-Punk
-Mainstream

Hip Hop/Rap
-South
-West Coast/Gangsta
-Classic NY

Drum and Bass
-Liquid
-Ragga
-Jump Up
-Dark

etc.

I think it will really add a good bit to your ability to organize music.

Tig, smart playlists won't automatically put music into SSL unless you have the box checked to sync to your iTunes library.

What Smart Playlists within iTunes essentially do is allow you to create playlists and choose a parameter within the tag and all songs that you load into iTunes that meet that parameter (for instance, all songs that are the genre of rock) will automatically be placed in that playlist. If you have your SSL synched to your iTunes library, then the next time you open SSL, those new sons will now be available in your rock playlist as well.

p.s. I just discovered the magic of using smart playlists within the past 2 weeks, but so far I really like it.

Also, I do not use an external for gigs. I keep my entire music library stored on an external which I keep at home, and backed up on another external as well (also safe at home)(plus occasionally burning it all to DVD's for further redundancy), and only keep tunes for DJing on my laptop. This eliminates the worry of your library disappearing because you forgot to hook up your external before opening SSL.

It is a simple process to use iTunes, but with all things technology, it is not guaranteed to be fool-proof, and if you do stupid stuff, expect stupid results.

1. Back end database is built on Microsoft Access.
2. Built in scripting language to make changes to ID3V2/1.1 tags and much, much more.
3. Ability to read cover art from nearly every Amazon online store on the planet (great for those 'imports' from 'Russia') and to tag from filename.
4. Ability to watch the filesystem and automatically know when tracks are moved (requires the 'Gold' license upgrade though).
5. DAMN FAST SEARCHES. I can search against 100,000 tracks over 4 drives or more in fractions of a second.
6. Reporting on tracks - I can search for specific tracks and build reports for customers to review.
7. Tagging options that actually work without hosing everything up.
8. It doesn't try to make you set up your files/drives in a specific way and basically builds a front end for searching and playback on top of any way you want to sort your tracks physically on the file structure.

Basically, it's just the best all around application for music database management and tagging I've ever used. There are a few apps that do certain things better, but nothing I've found is remotely as feature rich and functionally strong as Media Monkey. I rarely buy shareware/upgrade licenses. I bought a lifetime license to Media Monkey within 3 days of using it - it's THAT good in my opinion.

Thanks Kagen, Matt, Musicmeister and everyone else on the con side (and Shaun for the link) this is exactly what I was after. I know nothing of itunes and don't want to complicate things any further than they would need to be. However if it did look like it would be a benifit in the long run I'm open to it. Even though I'm walking with thousands of files I pretty much know where everything is because I switched to CD's about a year and a half ago and had already organized everything into very precise sections for that reason. (Reggae - Dancehall Current, Reggae - Dancehall Current Commercial, Reggae - Dancehall Millenium Commercial...etc...My Hip Hop sections get pretty serious) and I used to reburn every two weeks. But now that it's all in front of me I can find stuff even faster so the itunes hasn't sold itself to me, especially with those extra icons that can't be deleted as somebody mentioned.


This is a great thread now that i see it's split down the middle.

This is how I already do it as well.

Rock - 80's Party (regular hair band goodies for mixed crowd parties)

Rock - 80's (for older actual rock fans....of course I have a whole 'nother system for the Classic rock)

Rock - 90's Party (the one drop anthems)

Rock - 90's Library (self explanatory)
Rock - 2000-2004 (self explanatory)
Rock - 2005-2006 (self explanatory)

Rock - Hot Rocks (the hot stuff that really isn't bound to a date but is still within the last couple of years)

Rock - Hip Hop (the kind of stuff that won't completely piss off the Hip hoppers, allowing me to give the few rockers in the crowd a little something something for being cool)

Rock - Charts (just in case somebody would ask me for some charted bullshit I would never think to play otherwise)


As I said though, my hip hop and reggae sections get really serious with it.

Damn i gotta get crackin i just label by genre.

Only got like 8 crates, but lately i find myself just using the all folder.

True, however, these are also the people not to make rash decisions and start messing with their install when it's working anyway. There's plenty of folks who are still using, say SSL 1.3.

The reason you see people having problems on here is because that's what a forum is used for—I'd wager the majority of SSL users aren't on here just to shoot the shit and engage in pissing matches, they're here because they have legitimate problems and they want solutions. Your argument "well they're idiots anyway" doesn't really hold up. Installing iTunes—or any software for that matter—is a risk. But if you don't take any risks, you don't progress, either.

If my experience, the novice users aren't the folks who generally have the most problems—it's the intermediate users; they fall into a mindset where they don't read anything anymore and they get really comfortable with what they're doing. For example, most installers look simple enough—just keep clicking "next" on the installer—but when it's all done the new program they just intalled has changed their file associations and some of the media files are now opened by the new program versus what they used before. (I am reminded of this because I just installed Nero on my work machine and I had to uncheck a bunch of checkboxes so it would retain some of my settings.)

iTunes is definitely a love/hate program. For those considering it and you're reasonably computer saavy—you got to this forum didn't you and you got SSL—I'd try it out. If anyone has a question about iTunes and SSL, fire away—there are plenty of people on this forum using that combination who can answer questions (myself included).

Just to reiterate in case some people don't read and think I'm advocating throwing caution to wind—I'm saying be smart about this. You're not going to learn all the ins and outs of iTunes overnight bu it can be a big help if you take a reasonable amount of time with it.

Well exactly. This is why I started this thread though to see what some of the pros/cons are. Even though I am computer savy (somewhat), I understand Kagen's point. I've never used itunes in my life and I see it as an extra hassle where it's not needed. That's what we have SSL crates for, they perform the exact same function do they not? So unless I see incentive to start familiarizing with itunes I see no point. But now that smart playlists are mentioned, it gives me something to check out. the only thing is, I play differently at every gig so i'm not sure how handy a smart playlist would be.

iTunes is nothing more to me than:
- utility to organize my music into playlists
- utility to ID3 tag my music
- utility to BPM my tracks with bpm widget.
- utility to listen to my music
- utility to create SSL crates
- utility to update iPod with music
- utility to access cddb to get track titles when ripping cd's to wav.

Special uses:
- I mirror(via rsync) my music from my macbook to a UNIX server I have at home, and I export the itunes playlist so that other computers on my home networks can have a mirrored copy of whatever itunes library is on my laptop. I know my wife likes this function, cuz she doesnt have to manage her music.

I personally dont think iTunes(7.0.2) is the holy grail of music organizational tools, but at this time , Its free and adequate for my uses.

To each, their own.....

I haven't had a single version of iTunes mess up my SSL. Or corrupt it... or whatever. There are a lot of bogus stuff here including the fact that you can forget to plug in your external and so what...

Simple solution. If you forgot to plug in your external or started iTunes without your external:

Quit iTunes
Plug your external
Start iTunes
Now quit iTunes
now start SSL.


Baaam! Easy piecy japanese...


;)


Now, Smart Playlists plus live updating is the bomb. AND also the fact that one song can be put into different SMART PLAYLISTS automatically just by having codes anywhere (name, comment, doesn't matter where).

No dragging after draggin after draggin after draggin to different folders...

useless stuff.

and of course... WHO SAYS YOU HAVE TO UPDATE EVERY SINGLE TIME A NEW VERSION OF ITUNES COMES UP????

DO YOU BUY A NEW CAR EACH TIME A NEW MODEL COMES OUT?

coooooooooome on!!!

lol

I just don't like the overhead of iTunes among a number of other things...

But I've found something I'm happy with...

But everyone has their own preference. If I was on a Mac I'd probably love iTunes...

I think iTunes works much better on my Mac. On my PC @ work it is damn slow with everything and the performance sucks. But on Macs it´s iTunes

TWO THINGS...

First of all, you don't own SSL so your input in this thread is useless. The person who started the thread is talking about iTunes vs crates in SSL.

Second, I thought a man of your "credentials" would know that by now.

:P

im a iTunes hater....

i got all my sutff tagged and organized in folders that are relative to my crates. So smart playlists arent neccessary 4 me.


p.s.... did i say how much i hate iTunes?

I have to agree to some exent—iTunes does seem to work much better on Mac since the original developers were primarily Mac.


100% agree. I never claimed iTunes is the holy grail but it integrates with SSL, is free, and saves me tons of time. SSL isn't the holy grail either (judging by the number of outstanding feature requests) but I don't think any software ever will be.

Good point.

with you 100% on that Kagen

lol!!! but to be fair to MM he's said on a number of occasions he's used SSL

Sixxxxxxx.x...x.x.... er, whatever the hell your name is...

I use Serato nearly as much as I use Torq. I do a LOT of gigs with Julls and use Serato at all of them. I have the Serato software installed on my laptop - both the latest version 1.6.x and 1.4. I have crates in SSL I set up, and I've used iTunes quite a bit to set up playlists and have a pretty decent number of crates in SSL.

But what do I know... you're the all knowing DJ that has nothing better to do that harass people when they try to help or offer additional solutions...

I think I hit the jugular. Awwww. Poor baby.

Moving on.

and the name is Sixxx ... 3 x's. :) I'm sure you can read. I mean... with those "credentials" of yours... ;P

No, but when someone fails to remove their head from their posterior long enough to consider other possibilities I like to give them a good healthy smack to try and help them pop their head out.

Guess yours is there permanently though...

I agree... I tried it. I didn't like it. I would rather wait for subcrates and other possible add-ins within' SSL than use yet another external app.

Not exactly true. If you open iTunes without your ext HD attached, iTunes will use the default folder location. After than, when you connect your HD and open iTunes, it recognizes that the ext is connected and changes automatically. As long as your library is consolidated, your iTunes database isn't harmed.

Yup. Limelight.. that's what I was trying to tell them! :)

Anyway, it's funny how I got MusicMeister all wired. hahaha