I absolutely agree. Unless you have the fader at the slowest settings it will suddenly cut off at the bottom.


I absolutely disagree.

:-D

Just kidding, option is fine with me.

The gain option is definitly needed. It wouldn't be that bad if the the center d-lock wasn't there. It's kinda like the 1200 MK2's, makes it difficult adjusting around the area.

We need to hear more voices on the fader curve. I know it's probably hard to do, but if at center the curve was actually a 45 degree decline or a gradual curve close to a 45.

S

I agree - the fader is not so much a fade as it is a cut. Great for scratching, horrible for mixing. I end up mixing on the volume faders 99% of the time.

Yeah Id like the vestax style curve for the up faders too!
Please!

I hear you on both points, Niro.
I hate the new gain style, for me it makes the gain knobs pretty much useless.

I'm not so sure there is a problem with the current fader curve, on the slow setting I think it is fine. However I don't have any use for any other setting. What I would like to see is this.

fader curve to the left, vestax style sharp cut at the top then slow fade.
fader curve in the centre, gradual fade from top to bottom
fader curve on the right, Rane style sharp cut at the bottom then slow fade to the top.

The problem is that the line fader curve is supposed to be the same as on the TTM56, which it is... focus on fast cuts for turntablists. But for others, its not doing a good job.

Here goes some wishful thinking. I hope one day that all the fader curves and even lags can be adjusted via software. I am envisioning the Pioneer DJM 909 User Interface as an example of how this could look.

I been trying and getting frustrated with the curve control on this mixer. I mix a lot and im still trying to practice to get the feel of this better. Is it just me or is the center of both channels on the crossfader sound bad? I always try to never put it there because my levels sound off when im mixing.

@vio0633 - does the center of the crossfader sound like the volume dropped off excessively on one of the channels? Almost like the curve has a big dip in the middle of the crossfader? Maybe an experiment would be to record progressive moments of the crossfader with the left deck and right deck playing the same song file with one deck panned full left and the other panned full right. If the sound is the same volume throughout the time then we would see a dip in levels if we looked at the output in a sound editing software program. Maybe this deserves a new thread or I need to learn how to use Rane crossfaders. :-)

It shouldn't be like this, in the centre of the crossfader it should be 100% on both channels.

@nobspangle - I would think so. I have to do some testing over the holidays. will post back.

No nobsangle. The curve on the x fader looks like >< so in the middle the volume drops off on both channels. Everytime I make my mix tapes you can hear a big diffrence when the xfader is in the middle. Sounds like both channels cut off slightly and not fully mixed in at 100%. I always either have to have it slightly to the left or the right of the middle point to get the proper volume levels between both channels.

vio, are we talking about the TTM57SL? Where is your curve adjustement fader positioned at?

Yes! I have a 57 hence im in the 57 discussion side...lol! My curve is set to slow. What about yours?

Right now its on fast. But my mixer is off right now anyway ;)

HaHa!!! Thats funny man!

www.rane.com <- click. AFAIK the TTM57SL curve is to mimic the TTM56 curve. Go to page 7 "Crossfader Response". So at the slowest setting there is indeed a volume drop on both channels in the middle. Nothing to worry about. Just move the slider a little to the right (fast).

You probably need to put the slider in the centre, that should give you 100% on both channels with a slow fade.

I always have mine on fast and just use the line faders for fading.

Is it me or do other mixers make the middle of the crossfader have 50% from each channel and thus summing to 100% of perceived volume so there is no overall dip in the middle? I 'grew' up on Numark and Pioneer mixers since the 80's. The 57 is my first Rane mixer. Is there some advantage to having the curves the way Rane does it?

Thats probably why I get a volume change cause its 50% on both channels and both signals sum up to 100%. Im gonna try and move the slider over a tad bit to the right to correct this curve issue I got. I just got a feel for it.

A dipped crossfader contour is usually to maintain a constant sound level if you are mixing the same material (i.e. is dipped by 3dB if my memory serves me correctly).
Kind of like constant power panning law or something like that....

Yep, -3dB. If you add two sources at -3dB you get a summed signal of 0dB.

So when in the center position of the xfader the levels of both tracks if the gains are identical are going to be summed up to maintain constant levels? If lets say I have the fader all the way to the right on one channel. When I move it to the center is there a loss in DB from that signal? I dont want a loss in the signal until I start going to the other side of the fader. In short...what im looking for is to have the signal on the left side only start to cut out when the xfader is moved from the middle to the right. The cued up track I would like to start coming in as soon as the x fader is moved from the farthest end point. Make sense?

Yes.


Yes, to compensate for the signal which is additionally coming from the left.


I am not sure, but you should be able to achieve this by adjusting the curve, move the slide somewhere to the middle. If you are unsure, you could start SSL in soundcard mode, then choose as signal post fader PGM2, now set the xfader to the middle, let a sine wave or something with a steady volume playing from PGM2, now adjust the crossfader curve starting from the right, move it towards the middle until you hear a drop in volume. Makes sense?

Deft - thanks for the tech info. Makes sense.
nik39 good idea.
I was using the same song in PGM 1 and 2 and just panned left and right to check in the headphones about where to adjust the curve.

It would be pretty trick if SSL could display a curve on the setup screen that shows visually what the 57SL's curve settings are doing. :-) Until then I will be eagerly anticipating key lock and SSL to 2 stereo track recording of post fader output.

Kinda confused on how to do this with SSL and what soundcard mode is but I have an idea on how to adjust it right. What I can do is play a track and watch my gain levels. I can then move the x fader to the middle. Once in the middle I can adjust the curve to make the signal more in the middle position so it has the same or close to the same amount of peak levels as compared to the middle and out most point of travel in the x fader. Please let me know if this method is ok to do nik. Thanks for the help again!!

Yeah, sounds okay. You also might simply try switchin on the headphones between cue and master. Cue should always be 100%, master will be dependent on the fader position.

Thats what I use when im in the mix is master to hear in my headphones the levels to make sure everything is ok. I use cue to listen for my EQ's mostly. I will go home and give this a shot and try and adjust the curve for my needs.

Thats what I use when im in the mix is master to hear in my headphones the levels to make sure everything is ok. I use cue to listen for my EQ's mostly. I will go home to give this a shot and try and adjust the curve for my needs.

Quick question....does the curve adjustment on the 57 work exactly the same as a 56? I know on the 56 it has knobs on it which to me is better than a slider on the mixer. I thought the slider only had to positions (Slow and Fast). I did not know you can set it in the middle to get like a mid speed on the curve.

The slider is not a switch. So if its somewhere in the middle expect some results in between :)

Messed around with the curve today. Middle is way to much...it still sounds like a sharp cut to me. In between the middle and slow is preety good for normal mixing. Just thought I would post an update.

vio0633 - thanks for the feedback. Will give it a try as well.

all - is the cut lag very short on this crossfader? for me if the crossfader is not EXACTLY all the way over, i can hear the other channel come through.

Yes it does have a very short cut lag. It was meant for the people that scratch out there.

thanks for the feedback. time for me to get more careful then. too bad the lag is not adjustable like on the Pio 707/909. I guess that is why some folks use the gains/line faders for mixing.

Well, you can basically adjust the lag physically (waiting for a software curve adjusting function)... www.rane.com <- click, check page 9, also read here scratchlive.net <- click, to find more details how to adjust the lag.

Thanks nik39! I received my 57SL on June 7th. It sounds like it might have been in the same batch as the ones that were discussed in that previous thread. Will have to take a screwdriver to the 57 soon. :-)

You're welcome :)

Merry Christmas dudes!

Just got my 57 today. The crossfader curve needs some work. When the curve is set to the middle setting, it simply seems to bypass the -3dB dip in the middle; the cut in/out point is still the same and it's still as harsh as when the xfader curve control is set to 'fast'.

I would like something like the 'slow' setting, but without the dip in the middle. IMO, this is what the crossfader should behave like when the curve control is set in the middle.

Stu

Stuart...I tottaly agree with you on this! I was messing around today and I noticed that when not on slow it still cuts in and out like its on fast. When the xfader from the left is almost all the way to the right it doesnt fade out...it still cuts on and off like a scratch mixer would. Whats up with this? I dont want a -3db loss in the middle...all I want is a slow fade that is all. Well...until I learn how to scratch...lol.

Stuart, vio0633 - thanks for pointing this out. I was beginning to think it was just me. I think we should (if it has not been done already) petition for software based curve and lag/cut-in control.

Well how the hell do we do that huh?? LOL Can we petition for split cue as well?? Nah but seriously...this mixer aint gonna cut it for mixing. Im either not doing something right or this mixer is just cutting on and off no matter what with a gain drop as well.

have you tried using the line faders and/or gains to do mixing?

heh heh, I don't think a petition is necessary ;-) I'm sure a post in this topic will suffice.

Stu

I absolutely recommend that you guys who are mixing with JUST the crossfader begin learning how to line fade. By no intention do I mean to dis your style, but when I first started mixing 7 years ago, I mixed using the xfader. I studied some great trance/house DJs (Paul Oakenfold, Paul Van Dyk, Christopher Lawrence, Charles Feelgood, Bad Boy Bill - just to name a few) at the old Freedom in Tempe, AZ - and noticed they were ALL line fading. I thus converted to line fading, and have never turned back. Line fading gives you unsurpassed control over your EQ in a way xfading cannot (unless you have 3 arms). It's a great way to mix; as you'll see in time it makes mixing easier, and sounds WAY more effective. Simply put, you just have more control for that perfect sounding blend...

If you were to leave the xfader right in the middle (despite the -3dB dip) and make sure your gains on both channels are equal, your songs should sound pretty similar in volume. From there, it's all about bringin' the sound down off the expiring song with the EQ, and finishing it off with the line fader. I never touch the xfader when mixing, I just leave it centered. Then, if you want to learn how to scratch, we can all agree this is a superb mixer for that purpose.

I don't mean to sound like a know-it-all: I have the utmost respect for every DJ who has his/her own style. You do whatever works for you. I'm just telling you what I have seen many pros do, and what has worked for me without fail for years. I hope this helps...thanks!

Im a new DJ (1 Year) and im more than happy to listening to any methods from pro's that can help me make my music sound better. Now I do use the up faders and x fader both in relation to each other. Mostly When I blend a track I bring the x fader in the middle and adjust the upfaders to bring one track out and the other in. But I then have to have the x fader moved to the other side. I guess I maybe going off topic but from other users on here that do alot of blending and mixing....how would you reccomend I make my EQ's and Volumes sound better? I dont really have problems with the allen heath mixer I use at the club cause it is amazing for EQ work and sound. But the 57 is killing me...because of the weird structure it has for the x fader and EQ's.

Thanks D'p! I have been mixing for 15+ years but this is my first RANE mixer. I need to learn new habits while I wait for software editable curve controls. :-) It would be VERY cool if one could make presets for the curve, gain and EQ controls and save them under different profiles for different needs: smooth mixing, scratching, etc. Then if we could assign a joystick to toggle between these presets, the 57 could jump from being a scratch mixer for those moments in the party when you just have to scratch and then toggle back to smooth mixing for those long blends. That and Scratch Cue! :-)

Line fader mixing is all well and good for certain styles of music. Certain types of house with constant melodies or trance, for example. With this style of music you never really want to have a sudden cut anywhere so the gradual nature of the line faders on their 'slow' setting is probably best.
However, anything slightly more jackin' than those two genres usually works best with a compromise. For example, if I'm mixing some pumping minimalist house, I might want to make a gradual fade into the mix of the two tracks but then have the option to quickly cut in and out to one of the tracks (swapping the crossfader from the left to right) while also using my spare hand to adjust the EQ or add an effect.
That's my main reason for using the crossfader - it leaves one hand free to do other exciting stuff, which is why it's so important to have it as customisable as possible.

As Deft (beautifully) puts it:



from
www.dj.deft.ukgateway.net

Does anyone here actually like the dip?

nope

Hey I just made a mix of me using only the up faders. Can you pro DJ's listen to a begginers mix and let me know if im on the right track please? Please listen to EQ levels and whatever. No its not bad or trainwrecked...lol. Give me a sec to upload it please.

Im going to post a link on here of the mix. I have issues which I have no clue why it sounds like this. The EQ's are all over the place and it seems like the bass stops here and there along with the volume goes up and down. Anyhow...here is the link. Leave feedback on the upfader control if ya can please!!

Oh BTW...its only 12 min long.

www.megaupload.com

Stuart - Thanks for the link. Never knew that Deft did that article. Please make my curves dipless. (Insert joke here)

Nice link, thanks Stu.

Just a small point - I wrote most of that website when I was bored before I went to Uni about 6 years ago.
There is a lot of it I would change, but I lost FTP access about 5 years ago!
I don't really mind dipped crossfader curves being an OPTION as part of a continuously adjustable crossfader curve. I wouldn't like to be stuck with just a dipped curve though. I don't think it really suits modern dj'ing very well. There is still a misconception that dipped curves are somehow 'wrong'. It's just a design choice - not a flaw.

Actually I went to Uni over 7 years ago. Damn I am truly getting old.....

I'm not a scratch DJ and do mostly beat matching. Being used to Ranes MP24 and old skool, I was looking to scale down and wanted a light, compact solution with good sound quality, crossfading and serato, so I bought the all in one, TTM57.

However, I'm a little disaapointed by the way the xfader transistions in/out between mixes and wish for a xfader with smoother fading like the MP24 or close. Besides that everthing else I was looking for I got.

Even though I would like to see improvement, I do not believe the fix is as easy as a firmware upgrade as the mixer xfader is independent of serato. I could be wrong though.

Has anyone spoken to Rane on this and if they have a short term solution availble?

The firmware is the software for the mixer, it is produced by Rane and Serato it is what controls the curves, therefore they can be changed. There's no short term solution, what they need to do is change the curve so that the slow and fast settings are how they are now and the centre is changed to be the same as the slow setting but with both tracks at 100% in the centre. While they're at it they can sort out the line faders so that they have a vestax style cut.

see this posting for the link back to the mention from Sam.
scratchlive.net

Nobspangle you're correct that it can be done programatically to the DSP on board. However the concern is how much space is available in DSP to allow for these & upcoming changes to Serato. I'm lead to understand that DSP space shipped with TTM-57 is almost maxed and the more requests they have for more sophicated features which they are planning for in addition to what's already there, the more contention it will be to DSP space requirements.

I too would like to experience a different feel to the current contour (like MP24) but was told not a priority at the moment.

sdaasd, thanks for the sharing the info. any idea what is in the pipeline for the firmware that you can share? thanks.

Not sure of a new firmware but what was told to me today that new effects and improvement to existing ones are scheduled for next month but not concrete.

The more support we have on this issue or new request the better the chances of it becoming a higher priority. Note, Serato and Rane operate differently. The Serato guys like Rane wants to provide the lastest and greatest available in software features but Rane's hardware limted to DSP space requirments.

I would figure that the 'space' in the firmware for the curve/lag control would be overwritten with new settings thus saving on overall space in the firmware. I hope. :-)

True but not when you're adding more information than you are taking out :-(

Steve W says here www.scratchlive.net that there is room for around 100 effects, that sounds to me like plenty of space for a few fader curves.

IMHO the contours rane have given us are for scratch DJs. I find the contour of the line faders to be very strange, but this sort of contour is necessary if you want the ultra-sharp cut in these faders were designed to produce. The alternative is to "squeeze" the contour towards the bottom of the fader as you go from slow to fast, to give a curve more like the fast vestax setting, but this would rule out the possibility of having a super-sharp cut in. Thus, what's needed is a (software) switch to switch the faders between cut and fade modes in order to give either of the two styles explained above. I love the cut of the crossfader as it is, but I would prefer more of a fade for the line faders.

Is anyone from RANE/Serato seeing this thread? :-) Can we put the software editable fader curves and cut into the product pipeline?

I agree with this feature as well, I too miss the MP24z style x-fader curve! and split cue!

Hi Steve M, there is also this thread on the 57SL that has users speaking on the topic of the curves/cut-ins. scratchlive.net

I hope that is enough feedback to put this on the roadmap for updates this year.

Thanks!

Can some from rane or serato comment on the 100 effects point! Thanks guy in advance!

Hi, i have bought my ttm57 today. but one is missing. i can´t practice the euroscratch, because the linefaders at the hamster-modus and with fast-position kills the signal only at the highest position not on the lowest. but for this scratch you need a cut at the lowest position. You know, what I mean? is it possible to change this parameter with a firmware? at the ttm 56 there is possible to change the way of linefader, when the signal is killing on the way.

Greets

ps: sorry for my english, i come from germany:)

What about when you turn the hamster(reverse) off on the line faders, does that do what you want?

for the euroscratch you need a signal on the lowest position. at the modus without reverse you haven´t a signal at the lowest position and when you turn the fader 1 mm you hear it, but for this scratch you need it at reverse. i think, with the normally features on the mixer i can´t do this:(

You're definitely in the right place then, at the moment this isn't possible, however what I want to see happen to the line fader curve would sort your out.

it´s a pity. i hope, rane will change this, especially the ttm56 have this feature. i can´t understand this. ok, the euroscratch is not the most important scratch, but you can do this with each other professional battle-mixer. i´m looking for a update!

Just I have read the pdf of the ttm56. At the ttm 56 it´s also not possible to kill the sound on the first millimetres at the reverse- and fast-modus of the linefader.

To long to read the whole thing ;) sorry

BUt I recorded a sloppy euro-scratch practice with my baby. A TTM56.

watch -> Watchwww.youtube.com

Works like a charm :)

Pretty sure you can do that with a TTM57SL too...

Hi phil, the hp is out of order. are you sure, that you can make the ONE-HAND-Euroscratch?

Greets

My youtube link works for me. Maybe YOutube had a server error when you clicked it.

In case it doesnt work, i uploaded elsewhere.

2nd link -> reflex.at

yes it works like a charm :)

Dont eff with phil. Hard to see on the video, but its one handed, I assume, unless phil has three hands, one on the vinyl, and two on the mixer. ;)

Lol, I like the thumbs up at the end of the video.

Thanks for the link, but I can´t see it. I have os-x. Ok, when I speak about the euroscratch, than I mean one hand on the record and the other at the mixer. you control the crossfader and the linefader with one hand. this is definitly not possible with the linefader-curve at this mixer.

Then watch the video on a computer which is able to display it.


Oh really... wait... its called the Euro scratch! ;)


Why?

Phil has demonstrated it on the 56, the 57 has the SAME fader curves. Numerous DJs have been doing it on the 56, if you cant do it, you should overthink your methods ;) It works, as demonstrated by phil.

I love how phil calls it a "sloppy" practice, but it is still very very good...

Phil and Nik39, many thanks. i have seen the video, i think, the crossfader is not hamsterd and the linefader also. is it right?

greets

Watchwww.youtube.com <- click, Doppel D, check that link, thanks for RHF finding that video on youtube. Scratch perverts tutorial on the Euro Scratch, no hamster on the upfader is needed.

Yes Doppel-D, both faders are NOT hamstered. BUT linefaders are reversed (so you have the left turntable on the right linefader...vice versa)

you are the best!!! thanks a lot!!!

Yeah, phils the best :)

ah shut up ;)

autographs? lol

I hope this off topic discussion is not forseen as a resolution to the orginal subject. Rane/Serato representatives should still consider the matter open.

Yes, RANE/Serato please consider the topic of hanging software managed curve/cut-in control for the linear faders (channels, cross and headphone volume) a request from several 57SL owners.

DUH! 'hanging' = having above. Sorry!

Hi Phil, I have try to practise the euro-scratch. But you can do that with the ttm56, but not with the ttm57. At the TTM57 you haven´t the both controls for the crossfader on the front, where you can decide, when the crossfader is open. Now, I must wait for a firmware. Why does Rane cancel this crossfader-function?

Greets

Holy cow. Did you read the manual? :)

All three faders (PGM left, PGM right, crossfader) have
* reverse switches
* fader curve adjustment

Can you PLEASE show what is missing on the TTM57 compared to the TTM56 which makes it impossible to do an Euro scratch? BTW, you can send me a PM in german if its too hard to explain in english.

Hi Phil, I have try to practise the euro-scratch. But you can do that with the ttm56, but not with the ttm57. At the TTM57 you haven´t the both controls for the crossfader on the front, where you can decide, when the crossfader is open. Now, I must wait for a firmware. Why does Rane cancel this crossfader-function?

Greets

Ryte.

Doppel-D, it's possible to do the euro-scratch on the 57. I can't scratch, but I can see from that scratch perverts video how to set your faders.

I took a photo of how I think you should have your settings
www.nobspangle.f2s.com

Nobspangles pic shows that it IS possible...

Except there is no need to reverse the crossfader.. Just swap the line-faders (Channel reverse NOT hamster aka. reverse)

Now lets stay ontopic!

Since i don't have a TTM57...... i'm out ;)

pz

The problem is Doppel-D is used to a different hand-fader movement. This is not the usual way how to do an Euro scratch. So you have to accomodate yourself. Dont forget, this is possible on the 56, so its possible on the 57. Many DJs including phil have proven you can do Euros on the 56.

Yeah it means that you would have to get used to the fader cutting in / out the opposite way you would like. I could see how this would be a problem if you are used to the other way. They need sharp cuts at EACH end of the fader for maximum flexibility. I think they know this though.

I agree with you. You understand me. With this fader-positions the scratch is more easier and it sounds like with the other position. I think, I must learn to this with the features of the TTM57. But how is the position of the fingers? At the video on "youtube" I can´t see it right.

Doppel-D,

Move your discussion on help with euroscratch eslewhere, open a new thread if you need to. This isn't the proper area for that type of discussion and you're causing too much pointless distraction. READ THE TOPIC!!!. Thanks for your cooperation.

Well the Euro relates to a line fader curve issue so is reasonably within the topic title...!

Deft, thanks for your support:) I think so!

I would love the vestax style line fader slope adjustments please!
The curve at the other end is too slow!
D

bumpage for customisable curves on the cross fader

I would also like to see customizable curves for the faders at some point.

bump!

I think this issue is as important as the fader curves. At the moment I'm running the SSL master gain at its lowest setting so that I don't ever have my gains in the 12 o'clock (centre lock) position. They now float around 1-2 o'clock, depending on track. I still think the gains are too hot. Even a few of my files that are very quite and not normalised go into the red when the gain is set to 2-3 o'clock. Way overkill if you ask me.

Anyway, continue with the bumpage!

you can use the new auto-gain DB setting to reduce/increase the output volume rather than using the master gain knob...

may work out better for you..

its always better to aplify the last step of your audio chian, in this case the mixer gain...
I find it more logical to gain on the mixer instead of the software cuz hardware can prevent some clipping while software produce funny clips and cracks..

(mixers gains tend to shape the wave forms into squares wich are not clipped)

I think this thread veered off topic, I'm talking about how the gains are very sensitive which makes it hard to fine tune and also how the volume fader has a sharp cut off at the bottom.

bottom line is that there are many users of the 57 with very different needs. It's a fully customisable mixer, so why not just have as much customisable as possible with three presets: TTM57, TTM56 & Custom.

Simple. Done. Dusted. Bish, bash bosh. Bob's your uncle etc etc.

how's that editable then?