DJing Discussion

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Misuse of Serato

dj nick dean 7:15 PM - 12 November, 2006
I go out to this club last night and I recognize the dj spinning. The guy has been doing his thing for a minute around my area and I have always thought of him as a pretty good dj, scratches, mixes well and usually has pretty good song selection. Anyway, I'm sitting around the table with some buddies talking all the while facing the dj and watching him do his thing. The dj had his entire setup with him, computer, turntables and mixer. He did not touch his turntables once! I was at the club for about an hour and I only heard him mix one song. He stared at his computer the entire time and his transitions were usually weak ass back spins he did on his computer. Also, the guys music selection has just gone down the tube since I saw him last. All I heard was top 40 rap songs, which is fine, but come on dude, can you get a little more creative then that? Hardly anyone was dancing which is weird for that club. I felt like he was to busy gettin his pimp on with the ladies then he was dj'ing. Feel like the kid really disrespected dj's and music in general.

Anyways, I can say I walked out of that club feeling pretty damn disappointed. How does a guy like that, who I remeber being a dope dj get so bad. Not trying to blame it on Serato at all, but it seems like Serato really contributed to him giving a shitty performance. This was definitley an eye opener to me, as a dj, to always keep my technology in check.
society 8:21 PM - 12 November, 2006
Quote:
it seems like Serato really contributed to him giving a shitty performance.


I don't know about that. I've seen a lot of DJs using SSL who've stepped up their game imensely. What about DJ AM? Or, for example, Friday night I saw the Rub playing here in Toronto. A lot of what they were doing was facilitated by their SSL setups (not everything mind you--I'm sure they could have done their job without it, but I think it enhanced their performance).

In short, what I'm saying is that what you presented is not an example of SSL hampering a DJ's performance, but an example of a lazy DJ. SSL is a powerful tool that doesn't make you a better or worse DJ--what decides your quality as a DJ is what you do with that tool.
sixxx 8:50 PM - 12 November, 2006
I bought Serato because I love mixing with my 1200's; always in absolute mode.

Maybe this DJ you speak of bought Serato so he could mack on girls and still get paid. Who knows?

The bottom line is this:

Don't trip on what any other DJ does. Don't feel disappointed. Don't let things like this get to you. Instead, work on your skills, your game and your music.

SERATO IS JUST A TOOL AND ANYONE CAN TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THIS TOOL OR MISUSE IT.
dj nick dean 10:26 PM - 12 November, 2006
society, you are absolutly correct, the dj I saw last night was extremly lazy.


Sixxx, yeah I know, I cant let that get to me but on the rare occasions when I go out, when I see that shit it sucks. I don't live in a big city so my options are limited when it comes to shows.
MusicMeister 4:01 AM - 13 November, 2006
Are you sure he was using SSL?

The Multi-op I used to work for actually sent this out in an email:
"You may be working too hard on dance music nights Ed. Relax, have fun, smile, take some pictures and smile : )

No beat mixing, no special cuing required. PCDJ has been great with all djs at all clubs - no complaints.

Take more time on requests, getting some good tips, making friends w regulars and worry less about cue points, mixing, and headphones. We seldomly out headphones on at club shows, unless we have never heard the song."

Sometimes they actually want a DJ that's a glorified jukebox...
Julls 4:11 AM - 13 November, 2006
Quote:
The Multi-op I used to work for actually sent this out in an email:
"You may be working too hard on dance music nights Ed. Relax, have fun, smile, take some pictures and smile : )

No beat mixing, no special cuing required. PCDJ has been great with all djs at all clubs - no complaints.

Take more time on requests, getting some good tips, making friends w regulars and worry less about cue points, mixing, and headphones. We seldomly out headphones on at club shows, unless we have never heard the song."

Sometimes they actually want a DJ that's a glorified jukebox...


Gotta love boneheads typo's!
Julls 4:13 AM - 13 November, 2006
This was sent out in another e-mail from the person Meister is refering to.

"Spend less time with headphones on, playing of Russian/Latin Techo remixes and dropping old TV show intros, carrying in turntables to play with and spend more time smiling and talking with people."
MusicMeister 5:44 AM - 13 November, 2006
Julls, do you think I should post my 'reply'? It's sort of on point... and most would get a kick out of my talking to a Multi-op DJ business owner the way I did....
dj nick dean 7:06 AM - 13 November, 2006
Meister, to be totally honest, I am not sure he was using SSL. I never walked up behind him to get a peek of his monitor. I was wondering that though throughout the night.


Either way though....it was really bad. I even went in to the night saying I would not scrutinize the dj but damn, guy was killin me.
DJ Limelight 9:41 AM - 13 November, 2006
I agree with dj nick dean. I've heard the same thing before about other DJ's. Almost like they got lazy. But that argument was more on the "pre-programmed" tip. I refuse to patronize places when I'm not spinning that don't use real DJ's or have DJ's that don't take what they're doing seriously. I'd rather they just have a cd up there playing.
AmphetaMarinE 2:34 PM - 13 November, 2006
Quote:
Julls, do you think I should post my 'reply'? It's sort of on point... and most would get a kick out of my talking to a Multi-op DJ business owner the way I did....

Awww cmon MusicMeister... Im dying to hear ur reply... :D
MusicMeister 4:47 PM - 13 November, 2006
I want to know if Julls thinks I should... and his promise he won't point anyone to the forum from the company in question...
Julls 6:30 PM - 13 November, 2006
Quote:
I want to know if Julls thinks I should... and his promise he won't point anyone to the forum from the company in question...


Go for it. You think I would point any of boneheads henchmen here? They would get torn to shreds!
MusicMeister 2:20 AM - 14 November, 2006
Ok... ask and ye shall receive....
MusicMeister 2:25 AM - 14 November, 2006
Owners' comments in the original email are quoted, my comments are not. This was intended to go to the owner but I made a 'mistake' and hit reply all instead of just reply. Mistake? or was it... ;-)

Quote:
BONEHEADED OWNER: DJ C, I Want to disable video feature in mixer at Club O, I want video to run from computer to TV and thats it, I do not want to be able to play customer cd+g anymore at Club O, cds - okay, but no cd+g. Theres already too much going on in that mixer without adding crossfader loss of video during a karaoke show.


MY REPLY: This wouldn't be a problem if they simply learn to use the equipment - it's a single toggle switch they need to use to activate the video switching and it's the exact same set up they use every club night with the cross fader. Allows crossfading to a cd playing in the left deck for bumper music. But I understand that some people have no interest in learning to use the tools of their craft and in your words - we need to 'simplify it as much as possible because some people just are technical'. FYI - there have been a couple people bring their own karaoke CD's into Club O and Club W while I was there. It will also mean that if the computer fails for some reason you won't be able to do a show from discs without bringing a player AND the library.

Quote:
BONEHEADED OWNER: All Club O DJs, Please make sure all gear is turned off properly, computer shut down properly and all mixer controls returned to original position, cover up all gear and take all trash out of the booth, ash trays out, and take all personal belongings with you, DO NOT Leave personal anything in that booth as it is used by 4 different DJs. Please do not bring full cd libraries into Club O or any club. There are 13000 songs on computer and another 25+ cds of all the hits you need to do a show on cd. Want more music on cd? Let me know. I dont want to risk the loss or damage of drinks spilled into one of my mobile dj cd libraries at a club show for there is no reason for that. If you have personal cds you want to bring in and play for your show, bring em in a small personal case and then take them with you when you leave. The mobile cd library is by far the most expensive piece of gear I own so lets protect it the way it needs to be protected. Also please DO NOT bring turntables into any club for any reason, this is not negotiable or debatable. Thanks for understanding.


MY REPLY: I don't understand how my using my own CD players is an issue. You talk about how much money you spend on equipment but let's go over what I have in just my coffin alone:

2x Technics SL-DZ1200's CD players - $575 EACH (used)

1 Mixer - Technics SHMZ1200 - $600 (on order) currently using a used Numark DM905 ($40) - I'll be ordering the Mackie d.4 Pro when it shows up in February @$1000+.

Coffin Case - Road Ready for 10" mixer and CD players - $300

M-Audio Conectiv/Torq - $300

Laptop - $805

External Hard Drives 400GB x 2 (one is a backup), 100GB, 60GB - $650

M-Audio Trigger Finger Midi controller - $160

Assorted cabling, hubs, stands and peripherals - $250+

Personal music collection (65,000+ tracks) - $10,000+

This doesn't include what I've spent on stuff that's still in Alaska (Mackie Onyx 1620 mixer ($900), Peavey Twin DeltaFX ($150), karaoke players ($750), cases ($700), mics ($500+), PA ($800), karaoke library (22,000 songs, about 18,000 unique - $10,000+), enough cables and adapter to open a small Radio Shack and plenty more) or isn't in the coffin but I have here in Florida like light curtain, fog machines, etc.

That's more than $3400 worth of equipment investment I now can't use because someone doesn't like me to use my own tools to do the job. It's also $3400 worth of equipment that you had use of without paying a single dime. I was using it because I was more comfortable with my own set up and it would do things that the set up in the club wouldn't let me do because of the limitations of the equipment.

But what's next? We could install coin slots in our foreheads because we're a glorified jukebox at this point. How about I just install a broadband card and a webcam and I can do all the club gigs from a single location by remote control software? (Yes, I can set that up easy enough, we can even set up Wake On Lan so that we can turn the machines on remotely, start up PCDJ, and go for it). How about we just let the bartenders take over the music programming because once you create the basic playlist and set it on auto you don't need anyone in the booth other than to take an occasional requst or to get molested by the patrons. I've seen more than one bar cut the DJ out completely and have a pre-created playlist used for their dance nights. They write down customer requests and add them for the next week. I've even seen it happen before! Simplify the process enough and eventually the customer will think they won't need you anymore. I even managed a bar where this happened because the owner was an idiot (and a crack addict). We had a packed house every Friday and Saturday night and he'd want to use the same playlist week in and week out because we were the only 'nightclub' in the area. He paid someone minimum wage to take requests and adjust the order of the playlist based on those requests and when he left he didn't replace him - he had the bartenders start up the computer and let it play all night. We only use a 'real' DJ for special events and when I finally had enough and put myself in as the 'resident' because of complaints from the customers.

The last time we talked you told me you wanted the customer to not know or care who was in the DJ booth. You said you wanted them to look up half way through the night and go, 'Oh, I see DJ J's not here'. You said you want all of us to do the same show except for personality and you hinted that you didn't even want that to show through that much. Currently DJ J gets a premium if the customer requests him for a mobile gig. How can I build a reputation and exposure to create demand if no one knows who I am? Sure, I can exhibit personality on the microphone - but that's limited to a couple times a night at a dance gig and not likely going to draw business based on my ability to tell the customers about the drink specials and upcoming events. Based on the current model no one will EVER draw that premium for requests other than through mobile gigs. As a DJ, I'm working to draw sufficient attention to myself to create a demand for me through your company. That will increase my pay because then they will ask for me and it will increase your income as well as my own because they might see something in me they don't get with someone else - be it personality, skill set, musical knowledge, flexibility, or something else entirely. Not everyone wants a DJ J or OWNER for their event. I'm sure there is a group of people that might just want a MusicMeister. Or at least I'd like to think so.

BTW, the only reason the cheerleaders called was because I had my equipment at GIG W that night. No, nothing ever did come from it, but it was another call that was generated based not on anything other than having the right equipment at the right time.

If it takes away from customer service why did I take in more than $35 in tips at Club O this past Friday? Based on what DJ C told me that was excellent for a dance night. I've tried to make it a point to never take away from customer service because I was using my own players or equipment. Sure the customer is always right, unless they're just pissed that someone else came up to the DJ booth and tried to bite your bottom lip off while trying to suck your face or you blew them off after they did it. If the customers don't see a difference in my equipment and someone else using yours I don't see how it can make a difference overall. Basically, all I ask is that you stop in and see me using the CD players once at a gig before you 'ban' them. And since no one else is using turntables (other than DJ J2) or tabletop cd players, I'm assuming the request was directed at me alone.

If you insist that I can't use my equipment anymore then at least PLEASE get some means to cue the second player in PCDJ. Not being able to cue the track properly really cuts down on my ability to do my job effectively. It's just the way I was trained to DJ - and no, beatmatching isn't important with urban music - but skipping the useless intro/outro on a track IS important to maintaining the energy level for a dancefloor. Using PCDJ feels like I'm using a Wal-mart socket set to try and take the engine out of a car. Sure you can do it, but it's a LOT easier and more effective with the proper tools.




Comments to the forum regarding the post:
Ok... there was more leading up to this... but it should give you a good idea of what's going on. He's trying to 'dumb down' the DJ requirements so you can drink your ass off and party with the customers. The owner cut me loose shortly after this (which is a pretty funny story in another way) but what's funny is that he still has a guy working for him that got so messed up on mushroom tea that the owner had to come in and take over his gig! Guess the 'pro's' have no place on his 'team'....
MusicMeister 2:27 AM - 14 November, 2006
Well.... that was most of the email... I've left out part of it regarding training other DJ's, etc. that wasn't pertinent to the conversation here. But the email exchange between me, the owner, and the other DJ's is really funny from a 'professionals' point of view.
dj nick dean 6:01 AM - 14 November, 2006
Homeboy I heard a couple nights ago (original post) sounds like he should work for that guy. Owner sounds like a clown.
KitK 6:58 AM - 19 January, 2007
Most owners really have no clue.. and when you are dealing in the club industry.. unfortunatly there is a good deal of shady people in high places...many times.. the DJ is the one who has more sense then most management, in regards to equiptment upkeep.

And for the opening statement.. lazy DJ's are bored DJ's and need to pick it up.. or move on.. too many good DJ's without gigs.. that would give it more effort.