got my popcorn ready. Search button can be your best friend.

too many items to choose from. and I'm looking for something new and up to date

my laptop has been used by my kids and been hit with adware and spyware garbage cuz its used for the internet.

PC? I think I'm answering my own question..yeah you are. one of the the main reason to go mac.

ya know what, I didnt think of that. Macs probably don't get that adware and spyware shit.
I thought about viruses in general.
so Macs dont get those pop up ads that open up another screen and are greeting me with "congratulations, you just won..."?

if that's the case... then Mac it is.

I was just curious cuz it has never affected my use of serato.
just my internet experience is so annoying anymore

u just surf too much pr0n =P

u tried vsl on that pc yet?

+1

Asked and answered in the same post.

Actually there are other advantages to using a Mac and you really never realize them until you actually use one.

Many Windows users have problems because they feel the need to CONTROL the computer as they have done for years (think Race Car Driver) while with a Mac you just turn it on and use it for the task you want (think Luxury Car).

You don't have to do the Driver thing for Hardware, setup and use is somewhat easier, shit just works (again if you don't try and control it - just let it work).

Hard to explain until you own and use one.

cool. that's kinda the answers I'm looking for. besides the lack of viruses for Macs, I was just wondering why would I want a Mac when I could have 2-3 PC's for the same price. but yet I've never tried one either.
I was concerned with how hard it is to find programs for a Mac vs a PC.
I'm already online shopping for one.

there are probably better solutions on mac compared to pc...
except games... the only games you'll find on a mac is photoshop and illustrator.

I have a ps3 for games.
dont use a computer for games.
I only use it for YouTube vids. and music and email.

yet I'm on my 3rd laptop in 5 years...

do you guys feel safe with yer Mac on the internet though?
I upload vids to youtube and download my music from an mp3 pool. would hate to have to use a different laptop for the internet.

i look at tons of porn on my mac and never had issues

otra vez?

I use my laptop to design in Photoshop and illustrator, use it to edit small videos, do some audio editing on it, surf the web and do my email as well as gig with it week in and week out. Two almost 3 years strong and only had it in the apple store once because the hard drive went when it slipped off the glide shelf of my coffin. Plus when you call up apple, you get an american with no accent. I would rather pay the premium and get reliability than pay over and over again. Pay the price once and never look back. Nuff said ;-)

www.versiontracker.com
www.macupdate.com

Also list of some of the commercial software is here:

store.apple.com

Mac equivalent of Download.com, anything you want or need to do is probably there - commercial or shareware. Just type in what you want to do (word processor, Mp3 Tagger, Video Ripper, Torrernt App, etc).

Only thing Mac hasn't cornered (yet) is some professional CAD programs and some Medical stuff - are you a Architect or a Doctor? (Oops - just looked seems Professional CAD is now available - damn).

I have NOT had to restore my mbp since I've gotten it, which was later 07. Never had a crash during serato either (knocks on wood, but I think I just jixed myself) Plus I surf the web download music watch porn etc the whole nine! Thumbs up from me!

Hhmm. my link made me curious...

DJ software - Mac: search.macupdate.com

How come Serato doesn't come up on the first page - LOL. VSL pops up before Serato. I guess we all come here for it.

Found it 5 pages back - Results 126 - 150 of 300 for DJ software.

www.macupdate.com

just saying....

thanks again guys. this is the help I was needing and that's why I dismissed the SEARCH.

info is very valuable
truly appreciate it.

just saw that Parallels program. now I can still use a few windows programs that I use for song editing and videos.

I'm so sold.
I'll be outside the apple store in Chicago drooling on the windows in a few minutes.

i thought that too before i got it.
















now i use it for everything

mac fan boys in 3...2...1...1

same here. got a new aluminum pro a couple months ago and planned on using it only for serato and then using my pc that used to be my serato computer as a "beater" for downloading music, porn ect but since has become a $1400 paper weight. theres another example... base dell 599... after i built it up it was almost 1400. 1199 gets you 13" macbook pro built to the tits altho i recomend 15" if you can spring the 1699

once you go mac you dont go back

If you dont NEED a new computer right now and your PC is runing fine then i suggest you hang on for a bit for the inevitable macbook pro updates.

Unless you were after the white macbook?

Even in this case, I have my mac bootcamped with XP so I can knock off the latest games. Works great.

OSX > WIndows

go fanboys.. go fanboys.. go fanboys.. GO!!!!

+1

were not fanboys. most of us had pc way b4 serato or any other dvs came out. so you cant call us fanboys. we just use whats best. trust I pretty much build pc's and none can come close to a macbook pro for video. or to say urself from virus, adware,spyware, etc. I have My Kids pc over here they got tons of virus's and adware from downloading music from limewire and frostwire ( if thats the name) and I debating if i wanna fix it. their father is a dj but yet they download from them site's. (kids)

Frost-9 is an undercover fanboy :P

no, I actually understand how computers work. you can't mistake me for one of those.

well I'm sold on a Mac now... my three month dell is where??? at the shop having adware, spyware and viruses being removed.

I just don't know the differences in the Macs. MacBook, MacBook pro whatever the names are.

and did I hear they have a color other than aluminum?

^^^ exactly. you are the perfect candidate for a mac. no question.

So your're saying we mac "fanboys" don't know how computers work?

Btw, I have, not had, a PC also. For me, it just has little stuff/features here and there that make it that much more fun to use.

I work on computers and most of the time when you have spyware and virus' it's at the fault of the user(not accusin, just sayin). I won't say that I wouldn't mind having a mac just for DJing and music production. But that's pretty much it, I've used my roomates MB from time to time and it just doesn't feel right...

I know how I keep getting them. my kids use it sometimes and they click on everything that they see

Yeah, pretty much anytime I go home I get roped into doing mad work on my family's comp. I have 3 little sisters and they click anything and everything.

people bitching about PC's and viruses / spyware: Install an antivirus program that isn't advertised by people speaking broken english on TV. Kaspersky is a very good one.

Mac's don't have many viruses because they have less than 10% of the market share. Why would you write a virus for a computer that less than 10% of people use? If you don't want to know how to use a big-boy computer that requires you to make actual decisions, stick with your mac, you are a lot better off, and less likely to break anything. That's not meant as an insult.... not everyone wants to understand how computers work.. they just want them to work, like a light switch, or a toaster oven, and macs are the best option for folks like that.

oh my

that's what I want. a computer that I don't need to know how it works. I just wanna turn it on like a light switch.
perfect

do still wear your members only jacket?

My PC luvin' buddy Frost and i have been down that road before, fuck it - I may as well WACK THAT DEAD HORSE one more time since I have some current relevant ammo.

He says it is not worth while because Macs ONLY have 10% market share.

My position is because Macs "don't get viruses" wouldn't writing the FIRST EFFECTIVE CRIPPLING MAC VIRUS be REALLY HUGE. Apple is on TV almost EVERY FUCKING DAY, they are a Media darling - look at the hype of the iPad, a Mac virus be a HUGE news story.

Look at Toyota, an almost perfect car company that beat out the American Car companies, Now they have a BIG recall problem - IT IS BIG NEWS MENTIONED IN EVERY NEWSCAST- the perfect car company is not so perfect. Ford and GM are LOVIN' IT!

Same result - if Mac gets a crippling virus = BIG NEWS no - HUGE NEWS.

Don't you think guys that write viruses would WANT that "claim to fame" and seriously say they were the FIRST to fuck Apple, Steve Jobs, and the perfection that is the Mac OS?

There are no viruses because they CAN'T WRITE a widespread virus that would affect the Mac OS because it designed from the ground up to safeguard against it (since the 90's). Anybody that uses a Mac knows that there are 3 steps you take to install ANYTHING on your computer (including system -wide password confirmation). Not gonna happen (I hope).

But I'll let him keep believing that 10% fantasy, it makes him feel good.

do you still wack off to pod casts?

I can't wait to hear frost's response to art's post

I'm a PC fan, but Mac works really well. I had a Sony Vaio that never crashed on me before for almost 2 years while using SSL. I used it for everything as well. I also ran a firewall, antivirus, and regularly cleaned the caches and temp files. I kept it running pretty smoothly. I switched to Mac for video. Now I do all of my edits, remixes and everything on my Mac.
When they say ease of use, they mean it. It pretty much does everything for you. For someone that likes to customize the registry and disable/enable features that can take a little getting used to. I'm still learning. The one thing I will say is to use your Disk Utilities, run Onyx, and AppCleaner. There are some really good free programs out there.

Yeah, Mac's are known world wide for their security practices. The hardest passwords to crack are the ones accompanied by a login prompt with a smiley face, and computer synthesized voice urging you to enter your PIN. Macs are to computers as AOL originally was to the internet. They are built to be retard proof. That requires stringent security measures from the get-go. The smaller market share argument COMPLETELY HOLDS WATER, and security experts around the world agree. Windows has been around with a larger user base for a longer amount of time.

Think about it.... the studies that have been done on Dodge or Ford cars far exceeds those that have been conducted on a Saturn. The ability to circumvent the anti-theft systems on vehicles that have been not only on the market using the same type architecture for decades (mac just recently went through a HUGE overhaul involving both hardware and software), but also held a position of prevalence. 15 years ago, finding a Mac was like seeing an AMC Gremlin.... rare & ugly.

Furthermore, here's an interesting quote from a recent article on computer security:

"Security software company McAfee Avert Labs' Craig Schmugar pointed out that "the growth rate of malware (notably PC malware) is partly due to the success of defenses; the bad guys react and pump out more and more malware in an effort to circumvent those defenses. Apple's inclusion of malware identification into the OS could certainly be a catalyst for a more intense game of cat and mouse with virus authors, an ironic scenario should this come about."

more fun....

"...security company Trend Micro reports that the release of Snow Leopard has brought out a number of malicious Web sites where an OS X mountable Disk Image (.DMG) with malicious Install Operation scripts are being spread."

I'm certainly no windows fanboy... more of a linux fanboy if I had to sign any allegiance to an OS, but I have a feeling that as Windows 7 becomes more prevalent the gap between the two OS's will certainly narrow due to a hardened security model on the Windows end. Mark my words: in 3 - 5 years from now, no one will be talking about Mac's and their invulnerability to viruses and malware.

That being said, I DO NOT HATE MACS. I HATE UNINFORMED MAC FANBOYS.

Art is legally married to his stock in apple, so I really can't blame him for his undeterred defense of his significant other. You'd defend your girl too, wouldn't you? He just get's more paper cuts when things get heated... and dude... seriously, you're thinking about buying an ipad? sheesh. what a piece of crap. I can't knock you for your preference in systems, but common man... (as long as it has an apple logo right?)

SuckaDJ, you need to shut up and let the big kids talk. Go back to giggling while punching buttons on your microwave oven. If you don't know how to defend your hardware the way Art does, don't bother joining the conversation.

I'll help him out with some statistics:
Link: www.tuaw.com


Apple's market share is actually lower that 10% because a lot of sheep still use Windows because that is all they know. The iPhone puts Mac marketshare above 10%



Macs have been using Intel processors for about 4 years BUT 75% of the Mac marketshare have them, Mac users buy new hardware and upgrade to newer, better faster computers because they LIKE using their computers. That 31.7% figure is MAINLY people upgrading but also a few people coming over from Windows (small growth but steady).



I don't think that 0.94% went to Linux? 65% don't want to upgrade or advance because they probably actually dislike using their computer or afraid or scared to advance. Windows Vista is what Toyata is at the moment. Windows 7 is a step forward, but people aren't running to upgrade.

From wikipedia: Windows XP is an operating system produced by Microsoft for use on personal computers, including home and business desktops, laptops, and media centers. It was released in 2001.

So the majority of Windows users are working on a OS that will be soon be 10 yrs old???? Maybe they write viruses for Windows ONLY because it is so easy and vulnerable - damn slackers.

Jay said it best: Men Lie, Women lie, numbers don't.

I agree with frost and fear that one day there will be a real Mac Virus - respect man, I only mess with him when he throws that 10% is not worth while comment.

A computer is just a tool and you shouldn't have to jump thru hoops to use it, like a screw driver, a hammer, or a Mac. - it should just WORK. Us idiot Mac users should be able to hang a picture or build a House with our TOOL and it should work like we want it to.

Not much to ask, and it does.

and when it DOESN'T we have Applecare!!!

Oops - fanboy side coming out. Let me stop.

BAM! Get em Payne!

That's why you're a tool, and Art gets respect.

I just think you take things way too serious Frost and I'm glad Art was here to drop some knowledge on yo butt son! :P

Calm down Frost, let that vein relax.

haha.. you sound like rain man fighting with himself in a lame attempt to come up with a coherent statement that's actually relevant to the conversation at hand. Did you even bother to read anything Art or I wrote, or are you too busy yelling "YEAH MAC.. BOO WINDOWS!!"

lmao.

I've grown up using PCs, and know them inside and out... registry, anti-virus stuff, etc. The only major virus I ever got was from a used computer I bought and the virus came on it (Blaster, or whatever that BS was called, but I removed it easily).

Last October I bought a Macbook for use with Serato, now I use it for everything. I don't think I've turned on my PC in over a month.

It's late and I don't remember where I was going with this. Basically I love my Mac and like my PC (although not enough to turn it on).

Now are you really laughing your ass off? Or is that the cool thing to say now. Did I say Boo windows? ...and no I didn't care to read your post seeing as a majority of it was copied from a website. Plus your attitude sucks and I have no interest in what you have to say.

Relax Frost, let that vein in your forehead chill. =]

mac is the "it just works" PC is the "can you come to my house to look at my computer because it does not work"

frost-9,

calm down. It's all good, you can have your PC and do all the cool things that you like to do and art will have a mac like we ALL do and the world will be just fine

if you bothered to read Art and my last posts on the issue, you'd realize that we both said that. Apparently reading comprehension is an issue for this group as well.

oh my!!

frosty the snow man...

mac is better!!!!



**********Runs to the top of the mountain to yell it!***********

yeah.. I figured as much.

ha ha ......ha......ha ........................gay.........mbp......ha ha ha.... funny snow man, funny.... go eat some tube stake and stay away from the sun!

www.istudyathes.com
steve jobs is a black belt in haikido. if he knows you went pc he'll come after you. that's why i switched.

I know there are tons of mac and pc lovers on this board, and unfortunately i'm a pc.

I've mixed with a lot of DJs and the majority of them use macs... the sad part is that i always have to be ready to mix because EVERY TIME their mac will crash, or external hard drives will just disconnect. I know they're less pron to viruses, but if you use your windows laptop for just DJing, it'll be fine.

I'm running:
OS: Windows Vista 32 bit
4gb SDRAM
320 GB Hard Drive
2..4 ghz Processor
... and it's a Dell.

I have YET to have serato crash... or a system crash during a performance. The only time serato has crashed (once) was when i was cueing and setting up my Sp6-Sampler at home.

Just my take....

Wilkins,
mac OR pc have their own fanboyz here. Better check skratchworx, djtechtools and with the newer generation. Generally it true, if you not tech savvy or a full-time music profession, you should get a MAC.

I moved to a PC and I have no complaints DJing with it for more than 3 years.
Also just don't compare a MAC with a generic PC.
You are OK with a PC, if you are tech savvy and own a good brand (Check Toshiba) high-end PC that has a well-built structure and is in the market for more than a year.
Remember PC's don't have the cool factor, and you may get harassed at times in the DJ community (keep checking the post). Why the hel I dragged myself in to this...

Watchwww.youtube.com

I'm using a dell
3gig ram
dual core
360HD

I've never had any serato function problems with my first dell, my gateway nor my current dell.
its just the virus thing is annoying.
I just had mine at the shop and he said I had 20 viruses and the laptop is only three months old.
oh well what can ya do

I never got why everybody types mac as MAC?

This has actually been one of the most on point debates of this I have ever seen without people resorting to "windows is shit, mac is better" and nothing more.

No matter what but, the point will always come down to using what you prefer.
I use PCs because I'm totally comfortable with them and I never (ever) have issues with them.

I find it funny though how many people (more the fanboys that just buy apple products because it has an apple on it) Can have all their stuff be utter shit and they still think it is the greatest thing in the world.
Friend of mine had his macbook pro, imac and iphone all completely die within 2 months of buying them, yet even while they were in the shop being fixed he was telling me how my computer was shit because it was a PC and mac was better.

It's like someone trying to push religion onto you.

I own a Macbook, iPod and iPhone. I use a G5 PowerPC at work and use my Macbook for Serato & Ableton. But I'll say this..Apple makes the best software and operating system...but man their hardware's build quality can be shit at times. My Macbook had its battery replaced twice and the DVD ROM is dead again after changing it once....not to mention my G5 at work randomly freezes and shut down my Illustrator & Photoshop when it's having PMS and overheats itself. The OS and software all work beautifully...but I can't say the same about Apple's hardware sometimes.

Some more relevant stats on market share: www.skratchworx.com

I will admit to being a former fanboy - almost evangelical - for a number of years. But now I couldn't care less. It's an utterly pointless circular argument that never comes to a sensible conclusion and just ends up with heaps of flames and many hours lost for those involved.

I use Mac hardware because of the undoubted quality. I use OS X because it is proven to be more stable and more user friendly (years in tech support for a graphics company showed me that). Personally I also use Macs because I can run Windows and OS X on the same computer and at the same time if I so choose.

Yes I pay a premium, but these days it's not much. Resale values however are considerably higher than PCs.

Running music software is much the same experience on Macs or PCs. There are exceptions - some software is Windows, and some is Mac only. But somewhere along the line, all bases are covered.

I use Macs because I prefer them for a number of legitimate reasons. That's my choice, and one that I am very happy with. Unless anything changes dramatically, I'll be doing it for a number of years to come too.

But rest assured...the Mac platform is and always will be the better choice when it comes to DJing and production software. It's proven to be more stable than my Windows 7 machine.

I find that you get alot more free programs on the mac too.

Great post. I always wondered what the actual numbers were based on "a" DJ community BUT people that usually frequent scratchworx are a little more forward thinking, advanced, and tech savvy than your average laptop toting DJ. Over at the DJChat forum, the stats seem more like the real world based on the posts, 10-20% w/Macs. They are mainly wedding and mobile jocks using Windows and Virtual DJ.



Funny, when i first came here I was a huge Fanboy trying to convince everybody that Mac was better by correcting misinformation and untruths, then I came to the realization one day that if people don't "get it", fuck 'em - let them do what they do. I got mine and I am happy.

But back in the 90's, Apple and Mac needed to be evangelized - people really didn't know about it or that it was "better", the iPod came and the world caught on, now it is truly a matter of choice.

Now, if they know about the Mac OS and if Windows, viruses, and saving a few $ makes them happy who am I to tell them different - again - let them do what they do,

The reason why people luv their Macs is because of their ease of use, the fact that 2 gigs of ramm in a Mac is the equivelant of 4 gigs of ramm in a PC etc etc etc. The fact that if you have issues you can go to the Apple store and get help, and the fact that the hardware last much longer then the average PC with less operating system reinstalls and all that good stuff.

I use both platforms and I try to stay unbiased, but it's hard not to when my PC is always getting system and security updates, and having to dodge viruses and malware and my 5 year old G5 desktop G4 laptop still works flawlessly with minimal maintenance.

I guess I will Chime in here.. I use both and I feel, at this point, You have to use both.... Why, well PC's Of course I am very familier with. And thats what I think is the main point. I love my Macbook Pro, and plan on getting an I Mac, I love my I Phone. And to me Apple as of late, makes quality equipment that you can depend on. I believe Apple is great for someone who just needs everything wrapped up in one, with not too many Options.

However the P.C. I believe is just what we call "Industry Standerd" and think of it, can anybody on this forum say they have never needed to use one, or have never used one. But I personally know many people that have never touched a Mac. Myself included untill about two years ago.

So that being said, its really a dead topic. Its personal preferance and thats it. In life, you need choices, Mcdonalds, Or Burger King. Technics, or (enter your brand of choice). Bank of America, or Citibank... Its all just, what you like, and to each there on.

Raises hand... (well kinda)

Only because I was at a place or situation where I didn't have a choice. Public computer, friends computer, etc.

5 or 10 years ago there were things and websites that were not Mac friendly (think Active X controls) and a few applications that didn't have a Mac equivalent, but now, email, the web, and most Apps/Situations are compatible/available for the Mac.

me too. never had a pc. don't know how to use one.

@ frost9 !! but ohh wait. My kids cpu has windows 7 with virus I just put in a new harddrive with xp on it.

Laz,


Let's be serious, all 3 completely die within 2 months? Honest answer??

ya id like to know more details on that story

did he fall out of a plain wile he had all 3 items in his possession?

They didn't all break at once but all within 2 or so months of getting them.

Iphone just completely shut down and was replaced (twice) he's actually since given up on those and gone blackberry.

The macs were both dodgy harddrives, once again replaced but without any issues after.

More than likely just unlucky to get some dodgy ones. That wasn't my point anyway, it's just funny how even with that he was still always in my ear about why I should have a mac because "they just work"

I have a HP 17" with 2 internal hard drives. I upgraded to larger drives and kept the original as backup ghost images of the boot drive. It would cost a lot more for me to have gone with a 17" Mac.My HP was about $999 3 years ago with XP Media Center. I could get a new 17" HP with Windows7 for $799 while a 17" Mac is what? About $2199 or something?
If you buy a PC Laptop on QVC or HSN you get a bunch of software free with it (someone mentioned you get more software with Mac), but it might cost just a little more than shopping around elsewhere.
A guy I talked to yesterday said his kid hit something on his Mac and wiped the drive and he had to restore it and has no idea what happened.

Oh yeah, and I've never had it crash or needed to restore or use the backup drives.

fall out of a plane lol

But yea, he has to be the most unlucky person ever. If that really happened :P

You're calling the computer itself a "cpu" --- proof you're a computer idiot.

Keep your mac.

Amen brother. They really need to shut up and start their own church already.. they're more annoying than Jehovah Witnesses...

The only thing i can add here is that neither platform is as secure as they would like you to think. Apple releases just as many critical security updates as microsoft. Many of the updates i see on the mac side are 100's of megabytes in size at a time.

There are vulnerabilities on both OS's that can be exploited. These are some Apple just patched.

threatpost.com



Most security experts are predicting a huge mac vulerability being exploited this year. If not through the OS then through 3rd party unpatched apps.

www.watchguard.com
"Mac Threats Double
Most Mac fanatics think their platform of choice is bulletproof against malware. Yet, in 2009, Apple fixed hundreds of vulnerabilities in its OS and supporting products and Apple users began to see increased examples of Mac malware (like DNSchanger variants). Making matters worse, Apple's products are making gains in market share. These factors will entice both security researchers and black hats alike to focus more heavily on vulnerabilities in the Mac platform. Mac users won't want to hear it, but expect to see twice as many Mac threats in 2010."


Then theres things like this:
www.darkreading.com

Granted none of these exploits have been hit by hackers yet, but its only a matter of time.

In closing, they both suck and need to do more as far as security is concerned. Its getting bad out there in internet land. Keep your systems and your apps up to date.

CMOS.. I don't think anyone came saying windows machines are inherently secure, because they're not... again.. the it's the mac fanboys that will jump up and down screaming about how macs do not get viruses when they have absolutely no understanding of computer security concepts, they just automatically associate pcs with malware and viruses. You made some great points... I'm looking forward to watching the misguided mac prophets fall victim to something major this year... I have a feeling the majority of them will have difficulty installing antivirus software when it becomes a necessity for them as well.

I think demographics has a lot to do with it. Your Joe Retard can't afford no mac AND doesnt know how to use a PC. So there you go

~89% of computers windows - 79% not knowing what the fuck they are doing = ~10%

10% computers mac - pretty much all working ok because your experience is so controlled you really cant fuck'em up if you wanted to = ~10%

So where does that leave you?

Only ~20% of all computers working properly. LOL

By the way I'm a PC and for two reasons.

1. Philosophically - I am an open source kind of guy and Apple is so closed and controlling that it is almost fascism. I understand the argument why I just dont get down with it.

2. Cost - I just dont understand paying 2 to 3 times as much for a computer that has half the hardware specs. I'll give you they have the best design and build quality seems great but daaayuum they are proud of them.

Also if you take the time to learn about your tool you will realize you can have a somewhat devent macbookish-netbook for 300 bucks. Not sure how it would run serato if at all but pretty decent for surfing the web and basic computing. Slap in a solid state drive and you are looking at like 10 hrs battery life.

gizmodo.com

I can't help but suppress a sideways ironic smirk at the "closed system and very expensive" comments against Apple.

It's the very foundation of SSL and what makes it so good - tight control and the revenue to support it too.

+1

Open Source software is everywhere since OS X dropped, back in the OS 9 days any decent non commercial App was Shareware and you often had to pay to play.

SSL is just now venturing outside of a "closed" system with Midi Controllers. VSL and Abelton, Buggy Traktor has had plug ins for a while if I am not mistaken.

so by saying this, you are indicating that you believe closed systems (such as macs) are inherently more secure and all around better than those coming from open source?

If so, you're completely wrong, and it's been proven many times over.

You keep adding "inherently" to these statements, which is incorrect and too much black/white thinking. It is not ALWAYS and COMPLETELY secure, and it is not ALWAYS better. That is not what was being said.

But MOST of the time a closed and controlled system will render more stable and secure results. There is no denying in it, it is a simple physical law, not an opinion.
That however does NOT mean it's impossible for open systems to become stable and secure. It will however take more time and be a slower process because many parameters are not controlled and it will need more work and effort to keep under control. But eventually over time an open system can become as good as the closed one, but it will be after more effort/time/resources than a closed one.

I wasn't talking about security per se, but in Serato and Rane's case, it has worked out incredibly well. Their totally closed system has ensured that to use the software, you must have the hardware. If however SSL had a greater and more consumer focussed following, you can be damned sure that it would be cracked wide open. The iPhone is a classic example of this, and the iPod before that.

But as soon as a product is opened up, chaos ensues. I've lost count of the number of hooky plugins and VSTs that have brought normally stable software to its knees. This is where the closed loop wins - keeping all that badly written crash fest inducing crap away from forums and support calls.

I totally get that open source is deeply attractive, but free for all anarchy isn't good for most people. Most want to plug in, switch on and know that it'll work - and that's what a closed system generally allows. Control is good sometimes, but choice often makes things grind to a halt, both in making decisions and function too.

Apple store is down... Could be refresh time!

i dont see whats so hard to understand about the facts of the situation, OSX being closed and unix based IS more secure than windows, is it 100% bulletproof, no of course not, are there viruses for macs, yes tons but most of them rely totally on the user purposley downloading some shady software, and installing it with their password, VS a windows machine which you can get a pop up from some weird site click close and suddenly have gigs of viruses corrupting your entire registry or tons of viruses just from loading a web page. I hate hearing the argument that "macs are just as succeptable to viruses as PCs watch one day in the next 6 years youll probably get 1" when your typical windows machine catches 6 a week. As far as our uses OSX handles media better its its bread and butter, can a windows machine do the same stuff sure it could but you have to really know your machine and optimize it. My old macbook pro with 2 gigs of rams runs VSL pretty well, my buddy had a dell with 8 gigs of ram and he gets drop outs every 10 secs, could he optimize his machine to run it right sure he could but hes still working on what all he has to optimize to do so

this is of course not the "norm" but Ive noticed many people who are having crazy PC issues are on PCs that are sub-par machines in general.
used, refurbished,cheap,consumer grade.

even a decent old 13" MBP your looking at probably $700+
if you get the "right" PC Laptop (IE not one from wal-mart/best-buy) you should
be fine.
again it comes down to research & "getting what you paid for"

alot of people in the last few years went with the 15" mbp.
base model is 1500-1700.
damn right SSL better work on a $1500 machine.
you drop 1500 to 1700 on the right PC it will work like butter too.

what makes it easy is Mac, you cannot really buy the "WRONG" one.
you get 3 sizes, with minimal variables...
how many PC varients are out there... thousands every year.
from the $100 economy net book to the $5000 gamer machine.

Im leaning to a mac for alot of reasons, but one of them is NOT performance.
for the mac Im looking at (15" 2.83x500gb/$2100) I got my pc for a few hundred more
and it runs SSL sooo smooth, and runs VSL with zero issues)

point is.
do your research.
dont buy a pc "off the shelf"
you get what you pay for, mac or pc

another important thing to note is that once software prepped for a mac, theres very little variable room for it to mess up on when its run, SSL made for mac was tested on a maching thats going to be damn near isentical to your system, SSL for windows needs to run with 14 million configurations, motherboard\processor combos, several different opperating systems, regerstrys, drivers, ect ect

finally some valid points in this thread...

so it makes sense to if you have the money!!

thats good info which mac are you guys using and could you provide the build or specs such as ram processor and hard drive size I dont know which one to get

get the green one its prettiest

I think the 10% market share/virus thing is the real reason there are no viruses for Macs. Most people writing viruses are out to get the maximum number of users which means PC, largely because of the corporate sector--the VAST majority of businesses run PCs. Many of the viruses written are targeted at crippling corporate networks, so why would you write one for a Mac when you could create a worm for Outlook?

The bottom line for me is that a computer is a tool to get the job done. PCs are indeed more bang for the buck, but Apple makes a better OS, plain and simple. Vista was a fucking nightmare, but I've been pretty impressed by 7 so far. Neither of them match OS X though. All this quasi-religious nonsense about one being UNQUESTIONABLY better than the other is often spouted by people who have bought in (subconsciously or not) to Apple's annoying marketing. Maybe "bought in" isn't the right term...duped, maybe??

I own both and to be honest, my next computer will likely be a Mac, mostly because the OS is better and if need be, I can run Windows with Boot Camp. The virus thing is nice, but the logic behind it is admittedly dodgy at best. But are Macs invincible? No, I see the spinning pin wheel every now and then, it fucks up from time to time, but it feels like it takes less to fuck it up than a PC. Having said that, if Microsoft comes out with a better OS I'll start buying PCs again.

My loyalties have nothing to do with a brand and everything to do with getting the job done.

Pcs...
its 100x easier for John Q Public to jack up his PC with all sorts of bad things
(viruses, worms, drivers,ect ect)
but its also easier for someone who is a little tech saavy to avoid these things and push
his configuration to its limits

I use both mac and pc.... i have anti virus software on both mac and pc (although i watch my pc more closely), pro's and con's to each.. blah blah blah, buy whatever you want.
just think about what you need to do with a computer, then start making your decision from there.

The proper term is the Steve Jobs Reality Distortion Field or RDF (seriously it is a term: en.wikipedia.org ). It's actually not just marketing but the way Apple has always done business, they want to be better and they want to retain customers.

That said, it is true that Hardware is Hardware (Technics 1200's/CDJ's work with both Traktor and Serato) and software is basically software (Serato Scratch Live is "better" than Traktor Scratch Pro) but then you couple that with Support and sell the whole package and that is Apple (or Rane/Serato).

It's not just Apple telling us it is great/cool/better - it actually IS great/cool/better.

Back in the 80's when I worked doing Promo at a Record Label we used a computer called the Amiga that was way, way, way ahead of its time (en.wikipedia.org ) It was doing Video and 3D rendering 20 years ago plus doing Desktop Graphic stuff like Text warping that just appeared in Photoshop this decade. Amiga users would put Apple and the Mac to shame with fanboy cult status.

I saw the Amiga OS was dying so I bought a $1500 demo floor model Mac from a department store for $300. They said I could call Apple and they would send me the manuals, Os disks, and everything that came with it for FREE, plus it had full warranty and tech support.

I was hooked, that was customer service! They still do business the same way, they want to retain customers for life, not just for this quarters profit sheet.

Again it is the whole package, hardware, software, support - shit just works.

No smirk. I was telling you why I dont own a Mac, not why you shouldn't. Also, I should not have said cost but instead value. I actually like OSX. Is it better? I dont know. Maybe? I cannot justify the difference in price. I could afford to go get one tomorrow. I just dont see the value in it but definitely not judging someone for their decisions.

As far as closed vs open sources go. I dont see the SSL - Apple comparison but whatever. I dont completely subscribe to any particular philosophy. I just lean that way. Take a look at the monome, great business model.

Really? Is it cooler? Or is it cooler because Mac guy tells you it's cooler, and PC guy is fat and wears glasses? Is it cooler that they STILL don't have an eject button? I know, I know, there's on one the keyboard--what happens when your computer freezes and you can't get your CD out? I've had this happen on both systems--on a Mac, total frustration; on a PC, you press the eject button and the CD pops out--it just works.

And don't give me this shit about, "an eject button will mess up the feng shui of the design." Fuck that. If they're such design hellcats, WHY CAN'T THEY DESIGN AN EJECT BUTTON THAT LOOKS COOL?

Or how about the right click? HOW long did it take them to get on board with that?

Both of these are examples of Apple putting their design before my function, which, the last time I heard, was a design faux pas, ESPECIALLY on something that needs to be very easy to use.

People believe Apple's cooler because they spend billions of dollars a year convincing you that they're cooler.

As for their customer service, I can't comment as I've never dealt with them (nor have I dealt with Microsoft).

Again, I still like Apple products--not because they're cool, but because they work better than Microsoft, for the moment.

^^^^ agreed.... little separates the fanboys from the uninformed masses chanting "chaaaaaaange"

you stick an idea in their head, and they're on board.

... head usb sticks. put them in your ear, they log your memory for future reference.... it'll be an apple product

CHAAAAANGE!!!

haha

Mac help Desk is open... During restart if you hold down the "click" on your mouse or trackpad while restarting it FORCE EJECTS the CD. Say one "Hail Jobs" while facing Cupertino for you are now blessed with knowledge of the Mac

: )

Seriously, since the inception of the Mac, Apple has had everything going against it (many mentioned in this thread) - closed system, low market share, etc, etc, etc. Somebody came up with idea of MARKETING and ADVERTISING it as a product, when computers were not traditionally advertised that way. Apple has been selling cool or a lifestyle way before the iPod.

The Apple Lisa was a overpriced Apple failure that debuted in the early 80's right before the Macintosh, way back then Apple was advertising and selling the coolness factor as seen in this Ad with a then unknown actor named Kevin Costner:

Watchwww.youtube.com

Note the look and feel of the commercial (for that time) and pay attention to the last line of the Ad - selling "cool factor".

Just because they choose to Advertise in a way to sell more products and increase marketshare that makes them bad? They hire the BEST and MOST CREATIVE Ad agencies to help them increase sales and it works. Microsoft and Windows runs the world, but (after Vista flops) they "borrow" from Apple again with the "I'm A PC" ads and I invented Windows 7 thing to regain consumer confidence?

You don't really have to sell cool, just make good solid reliable products that people want

The hamster is 20% bigger in a Mac than a PC.


Thats all you need to know

No, I never said it makes them bad, I just don't think they're nearly as cool as they think they are, or at least as much as they want us to believe. Hiring creative ad agencies makes them a good business, it does NOT make them cool.

I guess I just feel like they're exploiting and commodifying "cool" and I don't buy it for a second. Cool is not a target market. And if anyone thinks they're cool by virtue of owning an Apple product--hell, ANY product--they've played themselves. Actually, I guess it's the marketing company that's played them.

LOL.. the reason I continue to read this thread..

Art.. we get it. Enough bleeding heart shit..

sony 700 headphones.

PC denial.

mac fag

Humping your PC all day long.

www.urbandictionary.com

Doest it hurt when you inject steroids?

are you raw from all that photoshop pr0n?

I am baby boy, I got lotion ready for ya'

for anyone not reading other threads.. it's apparent we've got a gay here.

Watchwww.youtube.com

Queer for you! So much!

LOL, see Frost, u always get me started. I'm like a recovering alcoholic (fanboy) and I peek in here to see what is going on, next thing I know I am spewing Mac logic and wearing my Rainbow Apple Shirt.

(Fuck there really is a Apple Rainbow shirt www.tshirtbooth.com - how gay is that?)

: )

I don't really care anymore, using Windows is like the DJ that makes the Club slut his woman, who am I to tell him that his woman is a dirty bitch that has done half the Club - if he is happy I am happy for him.

Again, who am I to tell people that there is better, nicer, cleaner, sweeter shit out there (and yes just like women, it costs a little more).

get a pc....

ROTFL - good one!

Wilkins820
America is all about choices. If you use a pc because you can afford it so be it. Mac is good for those who can afford them. Mac users always trash PCs to justify the dough they really got to dish out to own one. Update your IE to Version 8. It's safe or delete the link and use FIREFOX. Heck with memory sold at dollar stores nowadays who cares. For $699 I own a Sony Vaio with 4 GB and lots of extras and Cre 2 Duo same processor on a Mac.

There's a learning curve to Mac if you switch. They will make you believe a Mac will even serve your breakfast. That's a bull. The many viruses targeting Windows is because there are gazzillion of them in the market compared to Mac. Macs have viruses too.

I don't know, a Mac is over priced and overblown piece of equipment from iPhone to Mac Pro.

this is true BUT if youve ever been to a def con or a black hat conference or even know a hacker youll realise quick that their arrogant little fuckers and in that culture names are huge, and making the 1st big mac virus would def earn you stripes. Windows systems are targeted by hackers who do it for profit but theres a large culture out there of talented hackers who are just assholes who want to make a name for themselves. its kinda like the dj culture theres djs that only play when someone pays them and theres dudes who get crazy good playing a home and make a name for themselves posting youtube vids and mixtapes

^^^ thank you - somebody FINALLY understands the "macs are not worthwhile nonsense". It would be equal or maybe better than hacking the FBI OR CIA among hackers if it was a successful widespread crippling mac virus.

I'm planning on buying a MacBook Pro 2.26Ghz 4GB RAM and was wondering if an upgrade to 2.53Ghz would be the right choice. Will the 2.26Ghz run well enough for me to save the extra $300?
I plan on using the laptop for DJing and simple everyday use.

^^ i have the 2.53ghz. it runs serato awesome and i do use it everyday. im actually on it rite now. lol. i think the 2.26 would run fine but if you feel like you need it go for it.

Thanks.
I got my tax refund coming soon..I think I'll splurge.

Damn Apple. Taking to long to update MBP. I'm spending money I had saved for an upgrade. Hopefully next week....