I have no idea what's going on. I've been down with the flu for the past week.

Your not missin anything. The president thinks he has what's known in the mafia world as a "no-show job."

I think people expect too much from him. There's no way he alone can fix this country. I was never in to politics so I wouldn't know anything about his pros and cons.

He sure got us in a crazy amount of debt all by himself... i think hes a dumb fuck.. i mean dumb duck... i mean. plain retarded...

He is a good talker... and the more bullshit he says the more he screws america. I'm saving my pecos and going to mexico... at least they admit they are corrupt.

I agree, He had a hard task ahead, however he's not even trying. For me it has nothin to do with political party. It has always had to do with the mans background and experience. In this case, it never added up. A year ago I was alone and was getting abused by everyone that thought he would change the world, change we can believe in and all that garbage. It was all a hoax. I am sure everyone is still gonna be on the defensive but truth is his numbers have slipped within his own party and he has proven that he is not the leader everyone hoped he would be. The economy has recovered slightly but not enough to credit him. He continues to spend money we don't have and eventually it will bite us all in the ass. America can't keep printing money to solve the budget deficit. Thats like sweeping dirt under a rug. The mess is still there. By printing money, our dollar weakens globally. It's already worth nothing. We are still in for bad times. We need a financial genius to run our country, not a community organizer. That may sound harsh but its true. I would elect Warren Buffett president right now. Im serious.

pecos? or pesos?

your right Palin woulda done a MUCH better job

so you think the Mccain\Palin ticket woulda been the route to go on that, the "i dont have a complete understanding on how economics work" and "i can see russia from my house" financial genious ticket??

Typo. He meant mecos. He wants to make more babies in Mexico. Hahahaha



PS. Obama is just another bullshit politician who will tell you what you wanna hear to get what he wants. In my eyes, he hasn't done jack.

PS. More debt to the U.S.... plain stupid. And, the stimulus payouts couldn't have been more favorable to to special interest groups. Fuck Osama... I mean, Obama.

i agree with this....but do you think it woulda been that much better had another party won?? Politicians are politicians period

Typical liberal responses bezzle. Reread I have never mentioned anyone else doing a better job. I don't care what party is elected as long as the job gets done. Your inability to admit obama isn't up to the job shows how close minded you are. If he was doing a good job I would gladly give him props. My argument has never been for mcain or palin but against Obama experience in which I am correct by saying he has none and it is proven. Wake up and admit he is not doing what he signed up for man.

Sixxx is on the money. Politicians are all bullshitters and Obama might be the best at it ever.

heres what you said




heres what i said in the post DIRECTLY before yours




notice how i agree with you that he hasnt done jack...how does that make me close minded again??

I think the other party had at least enough experience to give the common sense to not fuck us over as much as Obama has...

look at this small argument on Govt ran health care...

Obama: it will provide healthcare to millions who dont have health care... and if you think you've been fucked already by my office... just wait and see what happens if you choose to not have gove health care...
More govt will make everything better, we know what we're doing...

Me: uhhhhhhh this is going to work better than social security right?
orrrrrr... its as good as a decision as to borrow from another country in order to throw money into the shitter because tossing money away will save our economy...

look at what happened... tons of people have lost their jobs, their homes, and businesses...

When banks go out of business, to me, that seems like a pretty bad sign...

I think borrowing nothing would have helped more.

Obama doesnt know shit... and thats what i said from the begining... if you want a politician to be president, at least have a politician with the experience of being a leader... isnt it common knowledge that every time Obama voted that he just voted for what the majority of democrats voted?

OBAMA= SOCK PUPPET

ill even grant you that but guys......palin.....i mean really palin...have you really listend to the shit this bitch says

i would have hoped for no heart attacks for the following 4 years, and someone better 4 years later...

at least Palin ran a state... what is Obama running? he sees numbers getting bigger, but the " - " in the front isnt a good thing....someone please tell him that...

Politics politics blah blah blah.

I've said it over and over to everyone I could....... You should vote for Ron Paul. Hopefully he runs in 2012

Why do u keep mentioning palin? Were talkin about Obama. Palin isn't as dumb as you think and who cares she didn't win. She was running for vice president, that's a do nothin job unless the president dies.
Free man your wrong on 1 thing. Obama never voted yes with whatever the democratic party voted when he was senator. He votes "present" 100% of the time. If that don't probe he's a joke what does?
Should I mention he was the lawyer for acorn or should we save that for a rainy day?

thats what i meant... sorry if i was i not clear.

Can't we all just get along??!!

Its not about us getting along, its about our country slowly losing grip on its core values. And Obama is giving it away like its warm hot pussy.

+1

+1


Constitution

vs

Obama


Obama: 100 Points
Constitution: -2,000 Points.

You Republicans distort, lie, cheat and use every subversive technique to confuse the sheep with the sole intent of disrupting anything the Democrats do and THEN complain that they are not doing anything.

Obama could find the goose that lays the golden egg, give one to every American and Republicans would find some kind of problem with it. I can hear Rush Bimbo now, "This golden egg thing is a burden on the post office...Obama is taking advantage of the flat rate boxes...etc."

+1


Constitution

vs

Obama


Obama: 100 Points
Constitution: -2,000 Points.

I don't think anyone here is a republican. We're probably all independents

Exactly what has Obama done to violate the constitution? Just curious.

at least obama is going to acutually finish the term o the job he was elected for lol



Im mentioning palin because as much as i dont think obamas doing a bang up job i highly dout we would be in a better situation had the other party won, and i realise she was running for vice president but you cant tell me she wouldnt have been trying to run the show, for gods sake she threw a hissy fit when she wasnt aloud to give the consession speech, a speech that no VP candidate had ever made, she constantly acted against campaign orders and shes a lunatic. And you yourself said we need a financial genious and the "i dont understand the basics of economics" quote was from mccain not palin

That's the same shit democrats do.

+10000

politics + serato forum dont mix too well.

Fine...Conservatives.

nope were not complaining about it lol

+ 1

fixed it and thats why none of it is worth complaining about

1)again This is an Obama discussion. We can have a separate thread on palin.
2) I don't listen to rush limbaugh so I can't comment on that.
3) I don't think palin is as dumb as everyone thinks but I also think she is a cancer to what the republican party is tryin to accomplish.
4)

4) Obama will not win re election as long as another party puts a solid candidate up.

i acutually agree with everything you just said, my purpose in bringing up the palin mccain camp was they were the alternative, i dont see any purpose in critizing a man for his faults but either not offering any alternative or offering an alternative that may very well have created a worse situation then the one on hand. As i said in another thread i think the overall fault lays not in 1 man but in the system as a whole, theres something fundamentally wrong with a system where 2 groups who hold opposite views and garner success of the faults of the other group are supposed to come together and agree on things that should better the country and its people. None of them up there give 2 shits about fixing things, both partys are focused on making sire the other party fails so they can stay in office and keep their cushy lives and high salaries, even in the bills that are offered over half of the damn bill is personal agenda fluff which uses the bill as a delivery system its a joke

Republicans cheat on their wives with other men and paiges. At least Democrats bone other chicks when they cheat on their wives. Ahhh, who am I kidding, I didnt even vote. All the candidates were subpar in my opinion, but that still doesnt change thefact that Republicans are fags.

Off the top of my head, I don't remember all of the things that i've read that obama has done that violate the constitution. But i know there was something to do with him putting himself in as chairman of the security council for nuclear disarmament talks or soemthing like that. I was just making a point that most of these people in office have probably never even read the constitution. If you guys really wanna know how our constitution has been violated, go read one of those bills that have passed. You now, the ones that are 10 million pages long, with 500,000 laws in them that are not related whatsoever to the bill itself. The ones that these idiots sign and no one ever reads.

LOL

awsomeness

All of the parties are fucked up. PERIOD

lol @explanation of how he violated the constitution, as far as the bills if those bills are in violation of the constitution (which im sure they are) then all of congress (both sides) are equally responsible, those bills ARE ridicluous straight up.

this is the point ive been driving home

\thread

Obama taught constitutional law at the University of Chicago. I'm pretty sure he's read the constitution.

Well said.

I don't give a fuck who wins or what party they represent as long as they get the job done!

why lol @ my explanation? He did violate the constitution.

U.S. Constitution - Article 1 Section 9 - No Title of Nobility shall be granted by the United States: And no Person holding any Office of Profit or Trust under them, shall, without the Consent of the Congress, accept of any present, Emolument, Office, or Title, of any kind whatever, from any King, Prince or foreign State.


According to the constitution he is not allowed to be Chairman of the U.N. Security Council.

oh well

I dont think he cares about the constitution...

exactly

just like George Bush doesnt care about Koreans!! or was it black people?

guess he didn't study too well then

This is going to get into semantics but the chairman of the UN Securities Council is not unconstitutional. That position is not a gift from any King, Prince or foreign State as the UN is none of these and furthur more the title of chairman does not fit the intent of the article. Duke, knight, prince, and marquis are all titles. Chairman is a position.

yeah semantics.

I'm not trying to pick a fight with you skiggz. You seem like a cool dude but you did say and I hear things like this all the time:

Which would infer that Obama has blatantly violated the Constitution and that example is the best you got?

Yeah, well i'm talking mostly about the bills that have passed and the stuff inside that no one knows about.

I've read some articles with a few other things....I think there was something with hilary clinton but I don't remember exaclty what it was- something about money I think? My point is that our leaders have lost their way, and I'm not really picking on obama either. It has been this way for a while now and sick of it. I would just like to have a president that lives by a set of values that made this country great in the first place.

And no, not like McCain and Palin, Bezzle.

Although a ticket with Ron Paul and Palin would be interesting.

Ah. The stuff no one knows about. Bills are public record and you can go read them yourself.

Anyway I have to go to class now and its pouring here. Yuck. Peace.

you consider Chairman of the U.N. Security Council a title of nobility??

more great explanations, you should be in charge of the commisiion to prosacute this feind!!!

stfu biatch!

sure let's all go read 500,000 pages. RIiiiiiiiiiiiiight! haha

i do agree withthe bills though these bills shold be used to fix problems not further personal agendas

How about a law that prevents them from being more then 50 pages? Maybe? dunno

they should come up with a way to make politicians work on commishion like a million bucks for every problem you fix lol, or base their salary on the yearly state of the country

or a law that says 1 issue 1 bill

I'm sure these guys probably don't even double check their work. They just write and write and write and before they know it it's been 48 hours and they're like damn, I'm sick of writing this shit. Fuck it, no ones gonna read it anyway....click submit, confirm. President's like hell yes, thanks guys you did an excelent job getting this here in such short notice. Excellent work, Sign.

then some senator calls president and is like, hey dude, I forgot to add something can you give it back to us. President is like ok cool no problem hommie. Then the senator adds something that funds research to make our poop recyclable that way we save the cows.

Haha, then they would know how it feels to be in the sales industry. Every 1 of them will be selling marijuana under the table because they can't afford their house payment. Since when have any of them fixed anything?

Crucify and criticize a man thats been in office 1year tryin to UNFUCK 8 years of Stevie O's hero's (republicans) foulups and blunders. How fair is that?

I hate to say it but some of you are starting to sound like those people that were showing up at the mccain campaign rallies. And we all know how they sounded.

What has he done to even make an attempt to unfuck the country? If anything, he's been adding to it.

Here's where i gracefully bow out. I don't have the energy to argue. Peace to all. To each his own.

Easy to say when there is no alternative for comparison.

True it has been 1 year only, but he certainly hasn't lived up to America's expectations, yet. Maybe he just doesn't have what it takes to lead? They have been fighting with eachother trying to pass this damn health care bill. And it's going to be even harder now since he no longer has a full house in the senate. It should be interesting to see how he's going to get his colleagues on the same boat as him.

More like unfuck 20 years.

Will you criticize a Republican for once? Geez.

And no, my comment isn't in defense of Obama. I just think your political views lean to the right and it clearly shows when you've exhibited a pattern of placing more criticism on left-leaning politicians. If you want to bitch about injustice in politics, at least be fair and criticize every politician out there who has placed more importance on themselves and their party instead of on the real issues.

+1001

we REALLY need to get out of the two party system, but the only thing the democrats or republicans agree on is that they definately DON'T want that to happen!

it's hard to vote libertarian or green party due to not enough widespread support YET... but their numbers get greater and greater every year!

I hate republicans.

I wonder if Obama will release the 2.0 Beta, then I will be satisfied. Throw us a bone man

wow i stopped reading after "palin isnt as dumb as you think".

zomg its been a year and the country hasnt yet recovered from the shitpile bush threw it into

dont let him know... he'll fuck that up too!

I dont get the democrat party this last election... It's like they were really hoping that something different would get the win... you had Hillary Clinton, and Obama... first woman, or first black dude... well, it worked.

for me i think obama won because he was a good talker. I think McCain kind of screwed himself... if he was a better talker i think he could have done better...

my fav part of the debates was when obama was talking about taxes and everything that he was going to do and blah blah blah... and McCain was like WTF!!! I've seen everything you want to do... you arent going to save anything!!! you're going to cost us _____ more than we are right now!

I said it before, I think that a mind set of presidents is more of they have an interest in something and in the long run its going to benefit them. Before now I didnt know what it was for Obama, but he sure has an interest in fucking the current health care system.

www.fuckyouobama.com

except americans werent expecting him to lead they were somehow expecting him to stand on a hill and turn water to wine, feed the country with a single loaf of bread and walk on water, to me this first year just proves hes not a magician or a demigod, hes a person just like everyone else whos figuring out his job

thats all any good politician is, a good talker, especially for the president since he by himself dosent really make any of the rules he has to get congress, the senate, the people ect ect ect to agree on some shit first, 100% where fucked up was picking palin as his VP, but as ive said a million times in this thread i dont think the country would be in very good shape had his side won, hes a warrior and the country would have been 100% focused destroying our enemys and winning wars than fixing things here, all while palin rewrote the constitutiion to be a perfect almagmation of the bible and her fanatical nut religious views and establishing gold statues dedicated to her greatness across the globe



would that be better than the part where mccain said he really dosent have any grasp of basic principles of economics??



healthcares an important part of our econmy

There's only about 4 of ya'll Obama haterz in cackling nonsense this thread... (((hoping the thread will die from lack-of-interest death and disappear)))... [continue nonsense]

Cost to train someone where I work $5000...

cost of Obama figuring out his job... $10,000,000,000 and growing

your right we shoulda just elected someone who already had presidental experience, mabye we can find another country whos downsizing and theyll have an extra lol.....and for everyone whos saying its getting worse arent we now comming OUT of the recession??

imagine if every president borrowed half of that from china... we would have been soooo fucked such a long time ago...

coming out of the recession... i just think we dont have as many banks going out of business...

explain this to me though... this isnt a bash session... just a war question.

they say that war is good for the economy because it creates jobs and spending...

well, how does that work when there really isnt money to spend on war...

i mean, i see war making jobs and keeping people employed, but how about just dumping money into making the roads better and construction stuff? we could have a pretty amazing transportation system by now.

i dont think that whole, war is good for the ecoonomy thing, applies to wars that last for decades with no real goal or enemey

those=retarded...

I have no idea what is going on... but with the threat of all the terrorist stuff and blah blah blah... maybe they need to cut all the bull shit and find a Jack Bauer to get things done

the funney thing about fighing terrorism...you cant win a war against an idea, PERIOD. Its a mindset, its the emotion or revenge and hate, its been here since the dawn of time it will be here at the last second. Its liek saying your going to fight a war against viloence

Chuck Norris can fight a war against violence...

Chuck Norris killed Bruce Lee irl

Chuck Norris is a racist!

isnt everyone who lives in Texas? I swear if it wasnt for the south there' wouldnt be the KKK... and the rest of the US would be healing from the bullshit we call racism

racism is everywhere. Try talking to Italians in Bensonhurst BK about blacks, asians or puerto ricans. People in Dallas are actually pretty cool

you think racisim only exsits in the south?????

when will people learn that hating on someone based on the color of their skin is waste of time and energy?

I do think that the south has its own type of racist... and its more common. I went to high school in cali... had all different races there. sure the asians hung out with asians, the indians with indians, persians with persisns... blah blah blah...

but i wouldnt say there was a hate. I remember living in Memphis on the other hand, and that was where i first came to see neighborhoods that you dont stop in. where cops dont go, and they'd shoot you if you werent black. In memphis it wasnt something like i had ever seen. So, what did i do? I moved to the middle of the ghetto, and had a great time... took people some time to get to know me (i'm white), but after they knew me we were all cool...

very true, theres sooo many other logical reasons to hate people

the fucked up part is that works the other way too...and i think that applies in cali too

sure it does... its still different though... at least it felt different. not as black and white

im not sayin racism dosent exist in the south but its defiantley not as bad is its percieved to be by stereotype and i think theres just as much of it in places outside the south

The way i see it is that its lame to hate someone because of something they cant change... to hate someone because of the color of their skin is just plain stupid

help me with this though... this is not racist... just a honest question...

when it comes to president, i just want the best person for the job.

Why does it seem to me that many people who are black voted for obama for the single reason of him being black?

I think its great he won... i think it shows that people are more open minded than they use to be... but to win votes because of someones race doesnt seem like a good enough reason to me.

exactly

Bottom line... all politicians will promise all kinds of shit they're even unsure of being able to deliver AS LONG AS THEY GET ELECTED or re-elected.

You just answered your own question....

But I'm sure there were many white people who voted against Obama because he was black as well so ignorance goes all around

thats the sad truth...

when i was in Memphis I went to a friends house, her dad grandpa lived with her family and was always sitting on a chair on the front porch. he always looked through me with a stare like he was trying to light me on fire. (and mumbling shit the whole time)

one day... being the smart ass that I am, i stopped as i was walking inside and said to him,..

ya know, i'm sorry if me being white makes you uncomfortable. I dont like racism and think that its sad to judge people because of the color of their skin.

If it makes ya feel better, when its dark, we're all black. then i smiled real big.

for the first time ever, he looked up at me. then he smiled and laughed sooooooo hard. after that i wouldnt say we were friends, but at least he had a respect for me as a person and would smile and joke around with me when i came over

How come 2 years ago, we had this almost exact thread and at that time everyone was like yah go obama, we need a change, horray for the savior. It was 99% Obama lovers in there. Now it's the opposite.

cause he never said want to be fucked? cause i'm gonna fuck everyone! including tiger woods

I hope it changes, but so far Obama has been the same as the last 4 or 5 presidents and every politician elected in the last 10 years, full of bullshit.

+1

i think he has a different opinion than me of what a president is suppose to do... he seems to enjoy being in front of the camera instead of doing something...

i remember growing up if the president was on TV there must be something important to be said...

with obama i just see his face and look for the remote. i'd rather hear what Miss USA has to say, or see what she was doing... especially if its a swimsuit shoot or something...

I really think obama means good for the country though.

i'd hope that all of the presidents all do... its their personal ideas that screw stuff up though

lol @ blaming obama for tiger woods need to fuck


ill admit people DID have unrealisitic expectations going into this btu that tends to happen when the devil himself has been the president for the last 8 years

our president is a figurehead PERIOD, its not a monarchy or a discatorship, in a democracy the people and the senate\congress make the decessions he just has the power to block them

+1

i dont think bush jr did, i think he just wanted to impress his dad and not get a real job

also you cant blame him for always being on TV blame the media

IMO, Most of them don't have the balls to get shit done. Sometimes a president needs to tell his collegues to fuck off!!!! And this is how it's going to be. I'm the fucking president. This bullshit has to stop! Not literally but ya know...

what about the fireside chats back in the day those shits was like weekly

at least Obama act like he cares, you can tell Bush hated black people. Well...that's what Kanye told me

I think bush had good intentions too, he was just inexperienced and stubborn and yeah, he was too invested in proving something to his dad. The prolonged war was a bad move, he didn't really have a chance to do anything but blow shit up.

but thats not how our system works he has to make the 2 partys agree to get something accomplished and they refuse to do so. If he was able to say fuck you this is how its gonna be done it wouldnt be a president hed be a king.......unless your bush who somehow managed to ignore the enire system so blatanltly that noone was sure enough he was overstepping his bounds to tell him no....it was like one of those situations like that is soooo obviously wrong you dout if its wrong or not, and your stuck going wait did he just.....he...he cant....can he??

As much as i dont like bush obama would probably ACUTUALLY be able to do the amazing shit people expect of him if he had the outright tenacity that bush did

Kanye is a bitch... Even Obama basically said he needs to STFU... according to Ms west... MTV hates black people too.. IMO Kanye makes black people look bad.


Now thats the 100% truth... I dont know Bush... I dont agree with everything that happened while he was president... But I think the guy did have some people that made him look pretty dumb....

obama has his state of the union on jan 27. People are kinda disapointed right now, It should be interesting to see if he says the same shit as he always does or change it up. It's business as usual up there in washington and people are angry.

i think that he has always been a good talker... but he a voids stuff thats not good... and focuses on the good that he's going to do... he'd be a great motivational speaker... just doesnt have things i support for the country.

yeah bezzle, i don't mean tell them to fuck off literally. I'm saying he's got to get up and talk people on the opposition into getting on his side. And to do that he's going to have to work with them and make some compromises. That's what a good leader is able to do regardless of whether or not they're democrats or republicans or whatever party. Right now he's just hopping on the backs of his cabinet and party and letting them lead the way "my way or the highway". They're creating a separation in washington. If he's not able to bring them together then what good is he.

Well... for years i've thought the president is more of a puppet... and works in the interest of the companies and individuals that supported him... he has to make them happy doesnt he?

I think he does what he thinks is best, but doesnt really know what is needed

Yeah freeman. Almost everyone one (probably everyone) of these elected people are intimately invested in billion $ corporations. They can't get shit done because they won't stand up and say to them, "Ok guys, I know you helped me get this seat but we can not continue business as we have in the past." They won't pass the needed legislation because it will ruin the life that they know. Basically none of them have balls.

serious... imagine accepting millions from a company with the catch you will make gove health care mandatory. yes it will fuck the country, but you will win the election... and there is no other way...

powerful people make powerful people... without them, well average rarely works

ya i get you but the thing is: when your task is to get someone to agree with you and you failing is going to advance them and their cause well.....i think you can piece together how the rest goes.

also you guys gotta keep in mind (not defending just throwin it out there) hes in year 1 of a 4 year term, its chess not checkers and a marathon not a race. I personally refuse to pass good or bad judgment until his terms up then i can look back and say ok this is what hes accomplished. For all we know hes putting pieces into place and making key moves that wont REALLY start to kick in until year 3 or 4 or even 5 or 6

One of my good friends in Seattle voted for Obama. She is also black. She never cared one ounce for politics but was so excited to vote for Obama.

We were talking and I told her how sick of Obama I am and can't wait for 2012. She got all pissy with me like "Don't say that, he's doing his job blah blah blah" She got real confrontational with me.

I then asked her if she knew what he was campaigning and what out of all those promises has he even made an attempt to start (other than healthcare). She couldn't name one thing. She didn't even follow his campaign. So I asked her "Why did you vote for him then?" Of course she couldn't give me an answer because she didn't want to admit that she voted for him simply because he was black.

All this talk of doing nothing is bullshit. Last year at this time the DOW was in the 6000 to 7000 range. Now its been back up over 10000, a considerable improvement. I work in retail and Christmas 08 we did numbers close to what we did in 04. Christmas 09 we were up to 07 numbers. Once again an improvement. I am in school for a specialized construction management degree. Last year NO ONE was hiring. We could not even get internships. This year has already shown some considerable increase in jobs.

You may not like what he is doing but things are happening. I know it seems a bit too slow for this spoiled instant gratitude generation but things a going to take a little time. This country was majorly in the shit mostly due to mistakes our parents made but no one even the almighty Obama would have been able to sprinkle majic dust everywhere and poof things are fixed.

We are going to have to fix this as a country the old fashioned way...cover your ears...with hard work and time. You all sound like a bunch of little brats, "Obama didnt fix the shit we fucked up...wimper, wimper." All this haterism is not helping our country.

*magic dust

Watchwww.youtube.com

please watch in full. Its on topic with what sniffles is correctly trying to say.
I took tons of criticism for my opposition to Obama last year and why he shouldnt be President. SKiggz took some too. This clip shows the stupidity of the American public, mostly the american voters. Thats why I call them sheep. Thank God the sheep are finally waking up and taking control back from the shepherd

Plenty of morons on both sides. That doesnt really make an argument either way.
Watchwww.youtube.com

By the way, don't hold your breath. The sheep never wake up. They just flock to a different shepherd.

Sorry to burst your bubble of a comfortable reality but there is no Red or Blue, either way its all fucked. You can say "LIBERAL" or you can say "CONSERVATIVE" "GO DEMS" "GO REPUBS" it doesn't matter. The powers that be is far greater than either side.

Heard that^

Word to burger.

Watchwww.youtube.com

Seems like a reasonable mentor^. If any of you can't find this man disturbing and insane than you need help. The only reason I bring this disturbing clip up is it shows the inability of our leader to show good judgement in people. It is extremely important for leader to show good judgement. If he can sit in Reverand Wright's mass and not see anything outreagous in this mans behavior, who's to say he has a good read on other insane world leaders such as, Kim jong ill and ahmadenajad.
Just sayin.

Anyone that subscribes to any form of religion is insane(except maybe Buddhist but I have yet to determine if that is actually a religion or more of a method). Unfortunately there just are not enough enlightened people and the few of us don't waste their time on politics. We become scientists. LOL

Everyone has a conscience, we know what is right and what is wrong. These people in washington are not all BAD people. They are just caught up in their own lives and endevors. Yeah I get you that there are people on the otherside who would love to have Obama fail to push their own cause, but it takes a great leader to be able to convince them to do what's right. That is what we need, and so fair Obama has failed to prove he can do that.

The dow figures are artificial. It is not real growth. Job growth is completely at a halt. Construction is one of the things that has improved slightly, however, those jobs are only temporary. Things have not improved, everything has been put to a halt so they can work on their damn healthcare bill meanwhile everyone is suffering. What happened to regulating the market, and financial industry? That should have been the first thing on the list.

right and wrong is all a matter of personal perception, those islamic extremists believe fully that blowing themselves up in a crowd of innocents is right

+1

I just read this entire post and it's clear that you guys still don't know what's actually going on in politics. Skiggz keeps saying things like, "Well, I'm not sure exactly but I read this thing that said something about money or something." Stevie posts one sided links that contain nothing more than rhetoric, and nobody is really posting anything that shows they actually know what's going on, or how things work.

Here's the deal.

Democrats are PUSSIES. Obama can't do anything, not for lack of trying, but because even with a supermajority up until yesterday, the Dems can't get it together. How can anyone who's been paying attention put the blame for anything not happening on Obama, when Republican memos have surfaced that say Republicans in Congress are to vote no on everything, and Democrats can't get it together enough to use their supermajority for Yes votes.

The Congressmen are all worried about getting re-elected, not doing good for their country. Everyone is so worried about made up shit like "death panels" and Kenyan Socialism, that the American people are getting fucked over.

We absolutely need Universal healthcare. Polling shows the majority of americans are FOR a public option, yet these assholes in congress block it.

I'll tell you one thing...you gotta respect the Republicans ability to tow the party line. Bush had nowhere near the majority in the house and senate that Obama has, and he did whatever the fuck he wanted. The dems are such a bunch of pussies that Obama is basically handcuffed.

That having been said, nobody who knows anything about economics expected us to be out of the hole dug by Bush, Clinton, and Reagan so soon...the most optimistic estimates call for Job Growth to start in mid to late 2010. These things always work the same way...wall street always recovers before "main street." It's just the way a semi-capitalistic economy recovers. Don't kid yourselves, we're not pure capitalistic by any means.

So what has Obama actually done?

Here's a few MAJORLY important things.

He changed the world's view of us. Conservatives tend to scoff at this...but Bush did a great job of giving the rest of the world a pretty poor opinion of the ol' USofA. In our current global economy, and with the internet bringing the world closer together with every day that passes, this is a HUGE deal.

He signed an executive order to ban torture. Big deal in my eyes.

Obama promised to pull troops out of Iraq, and send more troops to Afghanistan. He has done both.

Economists across the board agree that Obama has taken necessary steps to steer us away from depression and towards eventual recovery. You can blame him for raising our deficit to record levels, but he's doing what he had to do. Maybe Glen Beck and Sean Hannity don't think so, but economists across the board and across the world agree that it needed to be done.

Looking at the policies of conservatives, nomatter who won the election...McCain/Palin or anyone else on the right side, if we had conservative leadership right now, we'd be in a deeper hole than we are now.

As I said during the election process...I'd absolutely love to have a debate with someone who can present some real facts and figures about what Obama is doing/not doing that's so horrible.

I'll tell you where my discontent with him lies. He promised to end don't ask don't tell and he waffled. He promised to close Gitmo and he has thus far waffled here too. He promised to reign in credit card companies and banks, and I feel more could have been done in those areas as well.

There are many promises he made on the campaign trail that he hasn't lived up to yet...but you know what? It's been a year. He's been VERY busy, he has a lot of things on his plate, and he's got a congress that doesn't have his back.

You wanna blame him for inaction? You obviously aren't paying enough attention to what's actually going on.

to be fair i work in retail in the mall and this last year has been one of the worst christmas seasons in the last 10 years....though it has been a steady decline durring that entire period not a new trend

though now that i think about it mabye its cause i sell gawdy bling bling jewlery and having a

best post in this thread

Democrats are pussies, and Obama is one of them.

I can almost agree with that Skiggz...but you gotta admit it must be tough for him to do what he needs to do knowing his party can't stand together on anything to back him up.

Yeah I know Michael, but if he can't get his party to stand together what good is he as a president? So far he has shown he doesn't know how to lead, he can't even get his own party to agree for crying out loud. I hope he takes a different approach this time, but that's exactly why I didn't vote for him and why the biggest ? mark on his resume was his lack of experience. I don't care if he is a democrat, conservative, republican, green party, whatever. I'll vote for anyone who I think would have the cahones to get shit done. He has always seemed too WEAK in my view, he's a good man but too pussy to be a president. A good leader would be able to get people to forget about their own personal endevors and actually get shit done. I will give him some credit though, yeah, he did change the way the worlds view of us. That is a great thing, but was that really that difficult to accomplish? Bush expiring contract paved the way for that. I mean, who could fuck up our world view more then bush did? And closing gitmo, Hmm might be good, but bringing them to USA? Might not be something to be proud of. Americans don't want that. And we don't want his damn healthcare bill either, it's full of bullshit that Americans don't want. It all boils down to his leadership. Him and his party have seperated washington once again, just like Bush, just like Clinton, It's business as usual. Same bullshit. What he's done is not enough in 1 year, IMO. At this pace, we will still be in a shit hole for 4, maybe 6 or 7 years.

yeah but them dudes be crazy man!

Do you honestly think the guys at Gitmo are any more dangerous on American Soil than someone like Dahmer or Manson? That whole line is a ruse. I guarantee you if they threw those guys in our jails they wouldn't last more than a couple weeks.

As for him not being a good leader...I doubt anybody could get the democrats together right now.

This whole argument is moot anyway...with what the supreme court just did...elections will never be the same again...I doubt we'll see another liberal president in my lifetime unless something else changes.

@Bezzle That sucks. I am in the Nashville market and 08 was honestly our worse year. I dont sell bling but consumer electronics(almost as much of a luxury item). Retail is a grind it sucks when it doesnt pay.

@Basic I feel pretty well informed. Nice post though. I am pretty much in total agreement. Did you hear about his proposal to seperate investment banking from commercial banking? Thats going to ruffle some lobbyist feathers.

Thank god. We don't need no more damn liberals. They're all pussies.

Yeah sorry Ninjaty I should have noted that you seemed to be the exception...not because you agree with me, but because your posts seem to have some basis in actual fact.

I heard about the Commercial/Investment banking thing, but it pales in comparison to the fact that corporations can now put however much money they want into political campaigns.

Its cool lol
The reason Republicans get shit done and Democrats dont is because Republicans are all the same guy with the same agenda. Democrates are everyone else. Lots of different people coming together not based on common ideas but based on for what ever reason against the Republicans. Environmentalist are dems because of the environment but may not care about abortion. Pro choicers are dems because of that and may not care aboput black people. Black people may be against abortion but are dems cause republicans hate black people. lol jk but you get my point Obama really is hearding cats with this congress.

Stop acting like you guys know everything. This is a topic based on opinion, you guy's are not discussing facts anymore then we are. This is not a debate. We are merely discussing our opinions of his performance in 1 year. We all agree that he has not done enough, and could be doing more. And we all understand that it's only been 1 year. So please, spare us all the undercover insults.

I'm a PS major, and I don't even know what I'm talking about ;)

Sorry if I come across as a know it all. I really like it that this has remained friendly. I do disagree though. I dont think the blame lies on Obama except that he is technically the boss. I honestly think it is congress that is fucking things up. We have a bunch of freshman senators that dont know what the fuck they are doing up there.

Just like Obama, freshman? lol

You guys think it's coincidence that since they no longer have #60 seats in the senate, that news comes out that Obama and his cabinet are discussing alternatives to their healthcare bill? Which means they are going to have to work with republicans to make something happen. If that doesn't give clear message that it's business as usual up there, then what else could be the reason.

I would love to see them work together.

They don't have 60 seats in the senate anymore because the democrat that ran in the special election in mass. was a bigger retard than Palin. She didn't know how to campaign, she insulted the red sox, she didn't want to "stand in the cold and shake hands." Theres no way she was going to win.

This might actually be a good thing. Maybe this win will give Republicans their dignity back and maybe just maybe they will approach the table and start acting like adults. Their sore looser attitude has been disgraceful to their entire party. Things are not hopeless for them now and that's probably a good thing.

Its been said many times that Obama only won because he out spent McCain 3 to 1. What do you guys think about the Supreme Court ruling today that coorperation and special interest groups can basically buy elections now?

*cooperations sorry

I think it has more to do with people being sick of the bullshit. That's the same reason Obama got in the white house. Even Obama thinks so, It's more of a "who cares what they're about, we need something different because this shit is not working dam it!"

Welcome back basic, I have been waiting for your response, and a new mixtape.
1)The links I posted both proved a point. First showed the ignorance of the American voter and the second showed Obamas influences.
2) There is a clear difference in your opinion of Democrats as is the rest of the Country, this year as opposed to the Fantasy World Obama supporters were living in last year. It's obvious the country was scammed by this man with his brilliant speech and false promises. All his change we can believe in was all bullshit and was never possible. It was merely a genius way to get elected. Nobody on earth can run a country, business, or even a fantasy football league with zero experience. That was, and was always my argument from day 1. You can atleast admit I was right about that.
3} As far as your other points we have different views on terrorism. Being closely associated with victims of 911 and living and workin a stones throw away I have a more personal vendetta with the savage animals that cowardly murdered 3000 people that day. Lookin at it from far away on tv in California doesn't give a vivid enough vision of the horror I saw as I stood on the burning remains of steel for 2 days doing anything I could to help while fellow Americans and people I knew were burning underneath my feet. So I don't give a shit about a few known terrorists being waterboarded to recieve vital intel to help prevent further attacks. As much as the liberal media wants to paint a picture that it was ineffective, the CIA was tipped off plenty with information that saved lives. Some of those guys sung like a bird and we are safer for it. And bringin the terror trials to downtown MAnhattan to be tried is insane. It will cost millions of taxpayer dollars for security and tie up traffic in an area that is already gridlocked. And for what so these ADMITTED murderers can have a fair trial? They already admitted their involvement, they are guilty, end of story, no need for a trial. Why should they be allowed basic human rights when they have proven they are not human. Thats all on that.

As I said many times as an American it is our patriotic duty to stand behind the leadership and I do. I wan't him to succeed unlike most on the right that have an agenda to take back the white house. I hope Obama pulls out of this a great President and when he leaves I hope the counrty is in better shape than it was when he started. Unfortunately I am a realist and the chips are stacked against him, and his ratings are showing that. Especially from his own party. You say we shouldn't judge him on inactivity? Well thats what he has done his whole career. He never did anything as Senator, never voted yes or no on a policy. He showed up for a year and voted present. Before that he was a lawyer for Acorn and a community organizer (whatever that means). He has no military background which I think should be required to be President. ( I know Bush was a fuck up, but did have some military.) His inexperience is showing big time, The facts are we are lookin at a 1 term President.

I know one word that won him who knows how many votes, maybe its what got him elected.

The word is "Change"

we all know that we want change. We all think things should be done differently. For me its hard to see him put so much time in this health care bill that everything else gets neglected, And... if this bill gets passed, the health care isn't even good enough for him to want it. WTF??? isn't that a warning sigh?

I think that the President should be an office not associated with a Party. Sure call him conservative or liberal... but let them be nominated by the public. let the democrates and republicans fight in the senate and congress... but having them pick sides with the president or be against the president because of which party he belongs to seems like a board game to me...

nobody had presidential experience going into the job



So because of the horrible acts they commited waterboarding and other forms of tourture which violate international law and basic human rights are permittable......but paying for a trial and causing traffic in downtown manhattan is just outta the question??



It basically means he was organized the community into action..you know "LEAD IT" the same thing people are now saying he cant do and has no experience doing



So his inexperience is his biggest drawback....so we should def not let him stay in office after he gains sed experience lol, also MOST presidents are 1 term so hes in good company.....honestly i think dude would be a beast in his second term because he wouldnt have anything to worry about, as a politician hes still got to worry about burning bridges so he can run again and not fucking up as the first black president ect ect...if he gets elected for a 2nd term where he cant do it again he may pull a bush and say fuck it were gonna do it my way.....or not guy kinda seems llike a pussy to the core, itll be interesting to see who they run against him though cause the republican talent pool is chocked full of looneys...all i know is the day i hear the phrase president palin im seriously looking to move to ibiza or costarica or something

i wold take that further and say abolish the party system in general....most of the issues fucking this country are caused cause the partys cant agree cause the partys dont want the other one to shine when the whole system is imaginary, if i republican wakes up one day and says im a democrat does anything change no....they should just nominate the best people for the job, people who have good ideas and good intentions who will make decessions based on the best interest of the people....only problem there is coperate greed would eat that up too so whatever itll always be fucked

there's too much money tied up in it. i dont see that happening any time soon...

imagine the progress that could be made though

on a side note... can you say that you agree with every view of either party? I know i cant...

i dotn liek to label myself as any party, i have my views and that makes me a person plain and simple...especially since alot of my views are kinda nuts

ha ha... you just admitted to being nuts

oh extremley.......dude do you read any of the shit i post on here, do you think normal people say shit like that, im certifiably insane..OBAMA BIDEN '12

no... insane is me... i was actually married to the wicked witch of the west... and her family from hell... (SPEAKING OF MY X-WIFE)

lol just kiddin but i do think pretty far outside the box on somethings, and on most things im incapable of holding a personal view all i see are the flaws in the other persons arguments

obviously not you left her.....im still dating mine lol

ok... you're more insane than me... you need someone to take her off your hands... but then she may come back after he ditches her... and she wont leave

I love warm pussy

......already happened

awwww man!!! time to move... i do remember AL having some hott chicks though...

Damn. I thought you were just a conservative. I didnt know you were a Nazi. jk
I think you just forfeited any constitution violation argument you might have had.

AL and MS both have TONS of insanley hot chicks......not many of those are my type though, to begin with their all from the south lol

to be fair it was skiggz complaining about the constitution being pissed on, steve o is the nazi

Lots of insanely "large" ones too though...

veya that too lol

We could post links back and forth all day that show people on both sides being retarded...it doesn't prove anything. There are always idiots on both sides.

I read your second sentance over and over, and it couldn't figure out what it said. Can you type it out again more clearly? I'm not being a dick here, I really don't know what

"There is a clear difference in your opinion of Democrats as is the rest of the Country, this year as opposed to the Fantasy World Obama supporters were living in last year. "

means.

Are you saying that I'm the only one who thinks the democrats in congress are pussies and responsible in part for Obama's hands being tied on a lot of issues? Because if that's what you're saying it's false...it is the common consensus of people who are actually up on the facts of what's going on right now. I and many others think it's pathetic that the democrats are basically throwing in the towel now that they don't have a supermajority in the senate anymore, when bush did whatever the fuck he wanted with a minority.

Ninjaty hit the nail on the head though. Conservatives have a pretty narrow party line, while democrats are "everyone else." This is why it's so hard to get them all together.

The bottom line on Gitmo and torture is this. These terrorists who admitted their guilt, and everyone else there, can be tried according to our constitution, and either given the death penalty or be put in our jails where criminals much harder than they will tear them apart. There is no reason for us to piss on the constitution and everything we were founded on just because we're really pissed off. It's easy for you to say, "Oh, you're all the way in california, you don't know what it's like." Perhaps it's true that I didn't witness the devastation first hand, but if I had, because of the way I view things, I'd still want us to stick to our ideals as a country. The last thing I want us to do is be reactive and stoop to the level of the terrorists.

Everyone deserves basic human rights. When we start deciding who does and who doesn't, we are no better than the cave dwellers. We have a process to decide who is and who isn't a criminal, and with these guys it's an open and shut case. Do you really think our court system would let any of them go free on a technicality? When our government does pretty much whatever it wants?

This is a little off topic though. The majority of the american people are against torture and want to see Gitmo closed...people are mad at Obama for not closing gitmo, not the other way around.

Anyway, Obama's approval rating is down 18 points to 50%...a pretty expected drop after coming in so high. It's way too early to tell...1/4 of the way into his term, how things will turn out.

I will give you this, though...with this weeks supreme court ruling about corporate financing for election campaigns, Obama might be the last liberal president we have for a LONG time.

i really got to find me a no show rotfl... is there a such thign as a no show djing job...

The biggest problem I see here is the fact that you shouldn't vote yes just because of your party. That's the problem with this country. If it's bad for our country, it shouldn't be an automatic yes just because your party says so. Fuck a party - unless it's a hip hop party.

+10 billion

These politicians are supposed to be a voice for their constituency. When people vote for a democrat, they expect certain things. Healthcare has been a major part of the democratic platform for as long as I've been alive. The fact that these guys can't get it together when they have complete power across congress and the white house means that next election we'll see a lot less democrats keeping their jobs. It's not about saying yes or no just because there is a D or an R next to your name...it's that all the Rs are saying no nomatter what, so to get anything done the Ds have to do the same, but they won't. Because of this, Obama isn't getting as much done as people want him to. You can argue all day about whether or not the way our political system works is right or wrong in your opinion...but to say Obama is a do nothing president ignores the facts of how our system works.

maynoaise color benz i push miracle whips

It's about leadership Michael. A Leader is able to get people to follow him. The fact that his party can't get it together shows me that he is not a good leader. IMO, Obama is the type of person who let's the cards play.

I can agree with Michael about torturing, but lets be honest. Do you honestly think this is the first time the US has ever tortured? During a time of war, I'm pretty sure every country doesn't have clean hands. People don't like to say it, but it is sometimes absolutely necessary, especially when the enemy is second to the devil himself.

so its ok for middle eastern countries to tourture any and all US soldiers captured since were at war and to them were second to if not THE devil himself??

But they are absolutely nuts man. They don't care if the rest of the world does not believe in torture. They're going to do it anyway. They are fucking brutal, remember that video with the dude getting his head cut off, daniel peal? You think we're that sick? There is an extent of torture that I can accept.

Those type of people need to be exterminated. Why do you think we're in Afghanistan? We want to kill them, we could care less if they're captured. We want them dead.

agree

and... coming from a leader... if he say you do this.... but i dont want to because i want something different (speaking of health care) what does that mean?

Wouldnt it be better to have a plan that is so good that you to want to be the first to sign up? what kind of example is that?

It's just strange that on 1 hand we're willing to send our troops to a country where the goal is to KILL a brutal enemy. But then on the other hand, if we capture 1 we are to be nice to them and give them a trial. Sounds crazy to me. It's not like these guys are soldiers who are sent to war to fight for their people and country. These people fight for their GOD, they don't care about it's country and people. It's not like they are going to say "Ok i give up, you guys win". They don't care if they die.

it sounds crazy to you that we dont just stoop down to their level, that we hold core values above what theres are??

hitler said the same thing about the jews

you said this


then this


and wonder why things arent going our way over there?

that wasnt torture as much as an execution...and since we plan on doing the same thing to those guys who are going on trial ....logically well...ya


which is the EXACT same thing your telling us to do lol, say fuck what the world thinks about it and do it anyway, just like they would

I'm just being a realist, sometimes torture is necessary. It's not like it isn't going to happen just because there is a concensus that it is wrong. It's still going to happen behind closed doors by us or any other country. I'm not saying brutal torture, but some torture is necessary.

I'm in the middle. I think for the most part, torture is wrong. But there are exceptions to the rules! (just don't tell everyone). Just like you don't want your friends knowing you have a fling saturday nights with that cougar from the bar 2 blocks down. lol

so if the government thinks djskiggz may have information that could help protect people from something terrible then its ok to come pull yuo out of your home strad you down upside down and simulate drowning for a few days??

"To be fair it was skiggz complaining about the constitution being pissed on, steve o is the nazi
bezzle

Bezzle your callin me a Nazi? Nazis killed thousands of INNOCENT people. I kill no one but don't give a fuck what happens to the scum responsible for 911. They shouldve been killed instantly when they admitted their involvement. Fuck em.

"Everyone deserves basic human rights."
Michael basic

Basic, you always bring a solid, intelligent argument to the table and I respect that. I'm also glad everyone can have a mature debate about this for the most part. Your above quote is where we disagree, and heres why. These men waived their "human" rights the minute they commited mass murder. Read this clearly. These people want to kill you. I repeat THESE PEOPLE WANT TO KILL YOU. If they do not succeed they will try again until we are all dead. They have no respect for human life so why should we respect theirs? They want to die. They are not happy until they die and go to their so called promise land. Do you think they want a trial? Absolutely not. In their minds if they are put to death they are martyrs and they get their 7 virgins and all that bullshit. If they go to trial and some scumbag lawyer finds a scumbag loophole and these men are freed, do you actually think they are gonna go live a peaceful life? These guys show no remorse. They will go right back to planning another attack on us. Were not dealing with a logical enemy here. Thats why we can't win in Afghanistan. We don't want to die, they do. Advantage them. No war in the history of the world has been won on Afghanistan soil. Ghengis Khan even avoided this area .
To sum up. These people will stop at nothing and you want to give them rights and a fair trial. There is probably nothing I can do to convince you how insane that sounds, and there is nothing you can say to me that will convince me that these savage animals deserve anything but a slow painful death.

Moot point, I'm talking about terrorist that have admitted guilt, people whom we have captured fighting with the enemy, people whom we have gathered undeniable intelligence that they are involved. You think they honestly would torture someone who we have no proof that they are involved? Naww...

100% Correct^
Bezzle. answer this honestly if you can. If someone murdered your entire family (god forbid) (hypothetically). And you found the guy who could give you the location of where these people are who were responsible, Would you take every measure to find out or would you call the cops and let them have a fair trial? Would life in prison be justice? Would waterboarding be ok in this situation ?(no jersey shore).
Just wondering.

Agreed. However, it has to stop at an extent. No chopping off body parts. That's too much. Waterboarding is ok, and shoving things in their fingernails would be cool too. And keep that shit secret.

I didnt call anyone a nazi i was clarrifying what was previously said by someone else

because we as americans should be better than that, were a world leader for a reason



honestly i would let them have a trial you want to know why its not because im a good person or forgiving, its because if i stoop to their level ILL BE PUNISHED in the same manner they would and me sitting in a jail cell waiting for death isnt winning, im better than that and i wont sink to that level and sacrafise who i am as a person to accomplish something that WOULDNT BRING THEM BACK

and do you really thing genocide is the answer, the reason most of these people (at this point) want us dead is cause were on their land slaughtering their people, the more of them we kill the more contempt for us and our way of life we breed in their people and were causing a young generation to be raised with more reason to want us dead than their parents did, you cant beat a people like this into submission and you cant just exterminate a people based on the actions of a few, lets say we round up all the extremests and murdered them all just for having the INTENT to want to kill us, it dosent end there, those people who may have never acted out a crime have familys wives children brothers cousins who are now revengul against the foreigners who came onto their land and murdered their loved ones, do you think their just gonna forgive and forget no of course not, and what do you suggest at that point slaughter every resident of the country just to be sure....dont you think genocide may spark anti american views in other countrys causing extremists to want us then....then what do we do just slaughter everyone who isnt american??

"and do you really thing genocide is the answer"

woah woah woah hold the presses.
I didn't read one word past that first sentence. Who said anything about genecide? You are way off with your opinion of me and thats why I think I will let this debate die out. I am all for killing and contributing to the misery of ADMITTED KNOWN TERRORISTS, however I never said anything about genecide. I am sure there are many good hearted people that come from the same area where these evil men breed and I don't wish harm on them. I repeat I only care about the demise of the known terrorists and they should be caught captured and killed. When you use words such as nazi and genocide to associate with me it is borderline slander. There are a few people on this forum that really know me and anyone that met me would never question my charachter.

Hence why I'm prolly gonna go independent.

(no webbie)

...and (no wetback) at the no webbie. Just thought I'd clarify.

ok every1 needs to chill politics shouldn't be discussed in a dj forum ever..... shit gets out of hand....... off topic discussion should be limited to go jetss ya there i said it... jets r goin to super bowl sunday..... on the real i know steve n he is stand up dude who gets along with every1. unfortunatly hit in the middle east has and always be fucked.... tht region was at war for thousands of years n will always be at war with eachother and any1 who gets involved there....

All i have to say is god bless the troops there, i myself have a friend who put in a tour to afghanistan and iraq each and was saved by armor in his vehicle after a roadside bomb blew up by his truck....

so lets end this thread b4 it gets out of hand

thanks

/rant

Changing the world is not up to 1 man.

I'm just glad to have a leader that can speak in complete sentences.

+1 for voting for Jack Bauer

Craig Mac is back bitches!!! I say we start a "SERATO" political party and vote Mike Basic for president and when he's elected we all get a cabinet position in his administration. I dont think we could "F" things up no more than they already are. lol

That was me that originally called you a Nazi. I apologize if it was not clearly a joke.

We are a civilized country of laws based on our constitution. We must follow the rules that makes this country great and remain rational people or else who knows where that could end up. Anything else is crazy talk.

i dont think anyones heated or out of hand yet...this isnt near the level of intensity going on in the various no\yes to auto sync and mac vs pc threads.......if for some reason mac runs against PC for president any time soon were all fucked

i wasnt accusing you of that, if you read the rest (no attitude) the point i was making was if you slaughter even just the guilty assholes all your doing is creating new terrorists that hate americans more than they did out of their family wives brothers children ect ect....if slaughtering them is your only way to fix it genocide would be necessary.. the 15th law of power

Crush your Enemy Totally

All great leaders since Moses have known that a feared enemy must be crushed completely. (Sometimes they have learned this the hard way.) If one ember is left alight, no matter how dimly it smolders, a fire will eventually break out. More is lost through stopping halfway than through total annihilation: The enemy will recover, and will seek revenge. Crush him, not only in body but in spirit.

I myself was saved by armor by some pretty hefty IED's and have friends who didn't have that luxury. Are we suppose to look the other way for that reason? FUCK NO!!!!!!!! Keep the thread going suckas!!!!

Civil discourse in a public forum is what this country is all about.

exactumundo

I'm not going to read the 240 posts in this thread but I'll say this:

The analogy I'll use is the football one. Obama inherited a 1-15 football team. If he gets them to 7-9 by the end of year 2, it's a success. He's going to pass HCR and THAT is what will matter in 2012. As Basic said, he's done shit like stopping torture (something I am equally on board with) and he's improved our standing in the world.

He's had just over 365 days in office. Give the man time, he's dealing with a litany of problems that range from the economy to now Haiti.

We are a divided country. If tomorrow Obama said that Hitler was bad, the Republicans in Congress would say the opposite. I'm not slamming the Republicans here, mind you -- it's about taking the polar opposite view from the leader of the opposition party. The Democrats did the same thing. I fully believe that no matter what Obama does with HCR, he will never get a single Republican to vote with him. He tried to get them on his side and talk to him, and what did they do? They fucking turned around and said the President wanted to start death panels and kill the elderly. Well, FUCK THAT. People bitch that Obama hasn't been the uniter he claimed he wanted to be, but when the opposition party openly called you an executioner, you should say fuck off and cut off all ties to them.

I agree with Basic -- the Democrats are pussies. They should sack up and say fuck off to the Republicans and just pass all the bills they want to.

THIS
THIS
A THOUSAND TIMES THIS.

This ruling basically equates corporations to individuals, which is a slippery fucking slope that we may never see the end of.

This is just a small piece of your statement, but let me ask you.... when did Haiti become OUR problem? We reacted faster and more diligent to Haiti than we did to New Orleans. It doesn't even matter who is in office for that. There are departments of the government that doesn't sit on their hands until the "president" says to do something. That's just our fall back to put blame on someone because we don't know who is actually in charge of that front.

Haiti became our problem when our economy became part of the world economy. Nations are all tied together, and the sooner we embrace this, the better off we'll be.

"He's had just over 365 days in office. Give the man time"

I waited over a year to post for this reason alone. At what point do the liberals quit using the we inherited bushs america excuse? Just wondering.
Obama has spent more money in the past year and gotten us in a bigger hole than ever. That has nothing to do with bush. If i have a credit card balance of 1000$, I don't go out and spend another 1000$. I pay off the first 1000. Spending money does not decrease a debt. Very simple.

Actually, according to some, you're wrong. The Keynesian way to get out of a depression is to in fact spend more money. While that's not "debt" exactly, what would you like the government to do? They can spend no money and hope things get better -- which will cause the right to whine that he's not doing enough. So he went the opposite way and tried to make things happen. It's a no-win situation for him -- either way he gets criticized by the right. If they side WITH his decision and he's right then they look like chumps and can't say shit when it comes to the next election. So you go against what the President decides because it's a smart political move.

As for the "inheiriting Bush's America" crack, it would be wrong it if weren't true. The right blamed Clinton for every problem for the first 4 years of Bush's presidency (including 9/11, mind you - as Giuliani just did the other day with his "There were no terror attacks on the US in the Bush presidency" line).


We reacted more swiftly for a few reasons. One, the BA spent a few days screwing around and not getting their shit together to help their own citizens. Two, the amount of damage and loss of life in Haiti as compared to New Orleans is monumental. Less than 1,500 people died in NOLA - we're looking at possibly 250,000 people in Haiti. You still want to know why the reaction was so strong?

umm im from\partially in new orleans and were still waitin, half the city is still fucked, you drive through the east and it looks the same as it did the day after the water resided, jobs dipped and aint commin back, weeks after the flood we were still waiting to be acknowledged but in hati they had paris hilton on the first plane out ready to give emergency BJS. mean what the fuck hati dont even have an NFL team. And where is all this money going half the areas of destruction their showin on TV were just4 pieces of wood houses anyway, get them some nails and tell em to prop it back up, and if its for medical reasons if cali gets hit with a big earthquake are all the people who get hurt there going to get free nedical care.....oh thats right no cause we dont have universal health care. I understand the nations of the world are all connected but shit can we just pay our own citizens just a tad bit more attn since were the ones paying

Acutually yes, if you have 1000 debt and spend another 1000 on something producitve...lets say dj equipment, something that will earn you money then you can pay off the original 1000 in a much quicker time AND build revenue afterwards.....you def dont pay it off by doing nothing

Watchwww.youtube.com

I know you're angry about New Orleans and Katrina -- I have friends down there who are probably just as angry as you are. But you are really vastly underrating the damage and loss of life in Port au Prince right now.

Again, the loss of life in Haiti is at a minimum, 70 times worse than New Orleans. I just read they are at 111,000 dead which is probably on the low side simply because there's plenty of people who will never be found and there are plenty of bodies that were disposed of without being counted (burned, mass graves, etc). This is a truly epic loss of life and damage done to a country that was already the poorest country in the Western Hemisphere to begin with.

that only really works if its putting money into the economy to be spent... if its going to companies that basically burn it... well then the only thing to show for it is more debt...

I am well aware of the "you have to spend money to make money" concept. I live by it. That is the polar opposite of what the government does with the money.

I can't believe you truly believe that republicans think obama wants to start death panels and kill the elderly. Really?? Don't fall into this political propoganda trap that pundits like Keith Olberman and Sean hannity try push. It's all BULLSHIT. They stretch the truth.

And Obama, his democratic collegues, and cabinet already said FUCK REPUBLICANS. They have been left out in the cold since he took office. Look where that got them. They are fighting with their own party, can't pass the healthcare bill, and already lost 1 seat in the senate. Americans don't want a divide in washington. There is an independent majority who want to see Republicans and Democrats work together. We like ideas from both parties, and if they can get past their fucking ego's we'd probably be in good shape. But nooooooooooo as usual it is the same shit again up there. What we need is people up there who are common sense leaders, with common sense ideas. Enough with the experimental policies!

That's a bunch of BS Skiggz. Again, you prove you just aren't paying attention. You think it was just Hannity and Olberman talking about Death Panels? Really? You had members of congress speaking to congress about death panels. You had flow charts used as evidence. If you think it's just the Opinion Programs like Beck, Maddow, Hannity, and Olberman spreading this stuff, it's clear right there why you don't know what you're talking about.

If you want some actual history about Death Panels...you can trace it first back to a facebook post made by Palin. House Republican Leader John Boehner issued a statement July 23 that said, "This provision may start us down a treacherous path toward government-encouraged euthanasia if enacted into law." Rep. Virginia Foxx, R-N.C., said on the House floor July 28 that a Republican alternative for health reform was "pro-life because it will not put seniors in a position of being put to death by their government."

Sen. Charles Grassley of Iowa, the senior Republican on the Finance Committee, told people at a town hall meeting on Aug. 12 that people "have every right to fear. You shouldn't have counseling at the end of life; you ought to have counseling 20 years before you're going to die. You ought to plan these things out. And I don't have any problem with things like living wills, but they ought to be done within the family. We should not have a government program that determines you're going to pull the plug on Grandma."

Former House Speaker Newt Gingrich, asked about the issue on This Week with George Stephanopoulos , said, "You are asking us to trust turning power over to the government, when there are clearly people in America who believe in establishing euthanasia, including selective standards."

So again...do I truly believe that republicans think Obama wants to start death panels? Not most of them...I know they don't believe that. That doesn't stop them from lying about it baldfacedly on the floor of congress, and in town hall meetings addressing their constituency.

And again, your second paragraph shows yet another disconnect between your thoughts on how things are going and reality. Obama spent quite a bit of time early on trying to get republicans on board. Some people say he wasted too much time trying to coddle them. The reason he has said, to quote you, "FUCK REPUBLICANS" is because they have made it very clear...with their actions and memos regarding party line, that they are going to go against whatever the president says or wants to do, nomatter what it is.

Don't tell me I don't know what's going on because you don't understand my point. Your facts do not prove anything but back up exactly what I am saying. The people who are using terms phrases like "obama wants to start death panels" and "kill the elderly" are from exactly what i said, political idiots who are expressing "what might happen" if that sort of thing is put into the hands of the government.

I clearly don't understand your point. These "political" idiots you are talking about are elected republican congressmen, and the VP candidate who was running against Obama. It is also the fearmongering used by the entirety of the right wing...both elected officials and newsmedia to scare their constituency into opposition of healthcare. The people who are anti healthcare...hear just the word healthcare and are automatically opposed to it at this point. Public Option, like socialism, has been turned into a bad word by Fox news and the GOP.

Meanwhile, you're trying to prove your point by saying Obama said "Fuck Republicans" and doesn't want to deal with them, and in the same post you say that the people bringing up deathpanels are "political idiots." if you were Obama, would you want to include these "Political idiots" in your discourse? Really and truly? I don't believe it.

Skiggz:

To be clear, this guy: crooksandliars.com <--- is the spokesperson for much of the right in this country.

...............

acutually im for kilkling the elderly....ill elaborate on my views on the subject if anyones interested.....which i dout anyone is

soylent green is made of people!

You know, I make it a point to not debate over religion or politics. Everyone is right in his/her own mind. Facts are all a matter of perspective but honestly ask yourselves, have any of you have ever had a job with the amount of responsibility that comes with the job of being president? I sure wouldn't want to deal with what he's going through. It wouldn't matter what he has done in office because someone will always find a flaw in his methods.

How many crazy arguments have we all read between the different types of DJs who think there's something wrong with the way another DJ does things? I too have my own opinions of the job that he's doing but I don't think he can take direct credit for fixing or breaking anything in this country. After all, as bad as the economy might be, people are still finding the money to pay us to do what we do. We are also still buying $1500-$3000 DJ gear without ending up homeless.

My 2 pennies...

i like to hear peoples opinions.. I think he has done some stuff that is retarded... but i'm not him, and i hope that he knows a lot that i dont, and give him credit for trying to do whats right...

I have the same opinion about Bush...

One thing is certain in all of this. An african-american was elected president for the first time in u.s. history. Now that that's out of the way, let's elect people that are capable of bringing this country to where it once stood.

are you trying to say electing an american indian would fix our problems??

its sad that it took till 2008 for people to be that open minded. I think that old people have a hard time changing how they are use to doing things...

wasnt it odd to see McCain on SNL? i watched it twice to try to figure out if someone was doing a spoof making fun of him. at least he was open enough to joke about himself

for further refrences and examples do a search for auto-sync on this forum ;)

If they can run our country the way they run casinos, we would be rich!!!! and no, that's NOT what I was implying.

lol

Next Monday's announcement should be interesting.
politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com

wasn't it mccain that was proposing the same thing about spending during the debates? I think i remember obama making fun of him. lol

Oh lawd. Here we go. The people are bitching about out of control spending so he cuts it out and you just watch, Fox News will have a whole panel of guest dipshits bitching about him ruining the country by cutting spending.

i really doubt anyones going to bitch about him freezing spending.

im tracking that quote......im making a skiggz list of quotes i know will come back t haunt you a few months later

lol, bezzle is the new nik

lol

Thats the worst insult ever. No one is that bad. Not even satan

nik will take something you said two years ago and bring it up.

Tonight:

Blah
Blah
Blah
Blah
Blah
Blah
Blah
Blah
Blah

Not sure.

Is it too early to admit that you felt this way before he was even sworn in?

You're point/ question would have more teeth if you ended it with: "No matter what he does, he'll still be a lame duck to me." Because that's what you're saying for the most part.

The empty obstructionist thing is kinda played man. People are hip to the whole neo-con philosophy. No one really gives a fuck whether it's big or small when their families are hungy; their homes are being foreclosed on.

Meanwhile, people are dying in these wars (read: farces). We spend billions each month, but american citizens are hurting. So, yeah... we're still on the "Bush fucked up" bullshit. History will hold him in that same regard.

Lies, All Lies!!!

all i know is this oatmeal im eating is delicious

+1 id vote for oatmeal again

"So, yeah... we're still on the "Bush fucked up" bullshit. History will hold him in that same regard."

History, in fact will hold Bush in a totally different light. All your information on Bush was spoon fed to you by the liberal media. Not all of it was true.
Numbers don't lie, people do. The History books will print the numbers, not the lies.

+1

and for bush it sure looks better than Obama's -4,000,000,000,000 within months of office...

what positive numbers are we looking at under bush again??

My bank account was pretty happy... I was doing 4 gigs a week...

did bush hired you 4 times a week? how is this even relevant to the discussion?

Are you serious?

what did bush or any president has do for you personally?

The economy is in the shitter right now... I think that it would be better if no money was borrowed. I bet i'd have just as many gigs and be able to charge more... my gigs that pay $500 use to be $900...

Yeah, and that didn't happen because Barack Obama is in office.

That happened because the economy collapsed in 2007 and 2008.

You sound like the manager of a place I used to work at who blamed the slow Wednesday nights we had on Obama -- instead of on the shitty promoters, bad weather and the fact that we were in the worst economic crisis since the 1930s.

But keep mindlessly blaming Obama.

As for those of you bitching about the "It's Bush's fault!", you do realize that Bush II blamed Clinton for most of his problems, Clinton blamed Bush I, Reagan blamed Carter, and so on. Why?

Because that last guy can't defend himself. It's what they do. Acting like Obama is the first to do this pretty much marks you as someone who knows zero about political history.

Free Man, you are not the only one making dramatic cuts. 90% of America is on the same boat as us, not just us dj's but the whole population.

Dj lad makes a great point and keep in mind I am "not" an Obama supporter, or Bush for that matter. But the economy was already collapsing way before the elections. This just didn't happen from one month to the other, there are a lot of factors that contributed to the economy collapsing but if it's just makes it easier for some folks to blame it on the black guy, lol then go right ahead but we all know that this bullshit politics ain't gonna get us no where...

What did you all think about the State of the Union?

IMO, there was a lot of blame pushed around, it was condesending, and full of lies. Is it just me or does all of his speeches feel like he's running for office again?

I think the same thing... prob has his speech writers go in and they cant think of anything else to say, so they recycle his speeches...

what did i think? you can quote me on this... "bullshit bullshit bullshit..."

talk about the last 8 years.. is he giving Bush a good first year, and admitting he had a bad first year?

i think its good that he reads teleprompters well... one thing he does well

He's good at lying too. with the "we excluded lobbyist" blah blah blah. What a lie!!!!!

and i'm sure he's the only politician ever to lie.....

Please provide references to your statements. Legitimate sources are preferred. APA or MLA format is optional.

you don't think there are lobbyist working up there in his little group?

so hes lying cause you think there probably are some?

No, there are. Go look it up.

go look it up? you made a statement that according to you is true, we just want to know your source.

It's all over the place, choose your source. Politico has an article, politifact has a list of 4 of them. It's all over the place.

hmmmm, must be nothing to important since their headlines are all about Bernanke being re-elected

it's old news.....

I'm just saying that he blatantly lied to everyone. And then made the judicial branch look like idiots with a lie too

oh your talking about this article: www.politifact.com

Flip flops on spending freeze. He's full of shit.

The Judicial branch made themselves look like idiots when they overturned a 100 year old law that says corporations can't flood political campaigns with as much money as they want.

theres an old article on politico too

www.politico.com

Well, he promised job creations!

Well, he promised job creations!

Although i don't agree with the decision, that doesn't give the president the right to lie to everyone. What kind of leadership is that?

Condescending bastad!!!!!! Damn I can't stand that guy lol.

we are going to iraq because we have intel about weapons of mass destruction!!!!!!

who cares about bush. I don't understand why everyone goes back to Bush in-order to justify this guys actions.

don't make us go even farther than that!!

oh yeah, lets not forget about the "healthcare negotiations will air on CSPAN" lie.

Lies lies lies!!! it's the same shit again!

2.0 beta was supposed to be released this week, all LIES!!!!!!

I'm pouring over all the info trying to figure out what he lied about when referring to the Supreme court ruling. I can't find it. Enlighten me Skiggz.

Nice! No one has a defense for Obama. Even progressive democrats think he's a pussy and a LIAR.

I saw it on politifact Michael.

i'm sure he's been the only president to be a pussy and a liar

and Skiggz...you sound like a little kid. Honestly...you're calling a politician a liar. There's an argument with teeth.

post the link skiggz

You saw it on politifact? What did he lie about specifically with regards to the supreme court ruling. I read the transcript and looked at the ruling, and I didn't see a lie. All I saw was that Alito mouthed the words, "Not true."

If all you can say as proof is, "Politifact said so." All you're doing is spewing rhetoric you don't seem to understand.

www.politifact.com

There you go saying i don't understand. lol whatever Michael you understand everything. Good grief.

Yeah...I'm reading that now...and I still don't see a lie. If you knew what you were talking about here Skiggz, you might say, "Well, he said this would open the floodgates for foreign companies to put money into elections." which is what politifact is saying is not a lie, but exaggerated. You sit here and say LIAR LIAR LIAR LIAR and your source says it's a possible exaggeration. Makes you sound silly.

For the educated...what politifact is saying is that when Obama said "Last week, the Supreme Court reversed a century of law that I believe will open the floodgates for special interests – including foreign corporations – to spend without limit in our elections."

he was stretching the truth. The reality is, however, now that corporations have the go ahead to dump however much money they want into an election...do you really think it would be tough for a foreign corporation to funnel money through an american one into a campaign? Really? Do you honestly think that? If you do...let's just say you live in a dream world.

A stretch of the truth is a lie.

Watchwww.youtube.com

lol

hahahahaha

I don't know why I expect intellectual debate out of any of you.

C'mon, when geniuses are calling people pussies and liars instead of engaging in actual debate, how can you turn down the opportunity to discuss!

People can't change their views or opinions?

When Democrats do it, it's a flip-flop. When Republicans do it, it's "learning".

lol seriously? Did you not learn your lesson from arguing with them in other threads?

There's no point debating with you. You are clearly one sided, and convienently discredit anyone's argument by failing to acknowlege the entirety of somones post. Instead, you take peices of the post, quote it, add a witty insult, and then spin it to your liking. I know your little tricks.

Thats what msnbc does too^

In regards to the whole "open the floodgates" kerfuffle, keep in mind this: Obama was a con law professor at a top 10 law school in the country. This is his thing. Now, saying what he said may not be entirely 100% accurate in that just because they CAN spend money doesn't mean that they will -- but let's be honest here -- they will spend money. Now, while most of the SCOTUS has forgotten more about con law than Obama can pretend to have learned, it doesn't change the fact that the possibility of this remains.

All that aside, Scalia and Alito are both hard-right conservatives who openly will mock the left and cheer the right. This whole "decorum when talking to the SCOTUS" is a bunch of horseshit when the SCOTUS will do the exact thing back at politicians (and has many times in the past).

Way too much substance in that post Lad...they'll respond with, "Well he's a liar."

True, but forget about the "if" for a second. My biggest problem with Obama and his statement about the supreme court ruling is that- He blatantly stretched the truth for the sole purpose of making the judicial branch look bad. That is the same condescending attitude that, IMO, that creates a LEFT vs RIGHT attitude. He is playing politician up there, and that is not good etiquette from leader who is supposed to be leading us into an age of "change".

WOW. Ive missed a lot, Not sure where to begin but isn't it the Right that is usually hating the courts? Aren't they always the ones bashing judges claiming "activist judges" are "dictating policy from the bench?" This country has gotten real strange. No one knows their place anymore. LOL

Obama said, quote "What I Believe will open the floodgates." There's no lie in there...I'm sure he truly does believe it. I sure do. Am I lying?

Yeah. you think people were pissed when Dubai was buying our ports. Wait till they own all our politicians.

I like turtles.

But I guess its good to see you Republicans finally in support of globalization. haha

Ok Michael, I guess you are right. I guess it's not an actual lie since it is his opinion, but lie or not- that doesn't discredit my point. It was still a condescending comment which I thought wasn't needed. There was a lot of "talking down" in that speech, which I didn't like.

What? You posted "He's a LIAR" all over this thread...that seems to be the entirety of your point. The talking down with regards to the Supreme Court decision was absolutely deserved. Just as the deregulation of the markets and banks after almost a hundred years of no more boom and bust economy started by Reagan and furthered by Clinton was horrible for our economy, this will be equally horrible for our already messy political process.

He is a liar, he lied about lobbyist not being in his administration, did he not? He lied about heathcare being on CSPAN, right? He lied about earmarks, did he not?

The entirety of my point is he is the same shit as usual.

Although it may be deserved, i don't think the blame game should be something the President should endulge into. I think it creates more problems then it solves.

Well here it is I hate to wiegh in this one because I have a bad habit of
being really honest and lengthy so I'll try to make this short and simple


Had Sarah Palin been the head of the ticket instead of the Back Sarah Palin would be president Palin right now and she would've fixed this economy the way she fixed economy
and brought us back to life by doing the same thing she did in alaska wich was taxed
the super rich companys and given the checks directly back to the people
thats a fact she is not as conservative or neo con as you all may think
The same way scott brown is not a conservative these people listen to thier constituants
and make policy based on whats right for growth

Mccain was a super Liberal that would taken us down exact same path as Obama
but Faster and in the wrong direction check his record he is not the Uber conservative
everyone made him out to be the policies that are taking us down are Bush era policys
but Bush did one thing that kept us in balance wich was cut our taxes and didnt
talk reckless about taxing the rich wich makes rich people nervous and causes them to make decisions that further drop this country into recession Mistake #1 Obama
he quickly back tracks as soon as he wins the election but not soon enough
Fast forward to today

Technically What Obama proposes will Bring back the countrys economy but what he has
done is follow the advice of too many esablishment democrats wich will cost this president
politcal capitol wich he can't expend if he wishes to have a second term Yes I said it
Socialized Medicine will Bring Us BACK! But not as the democrats have proposed
the first part of the Bill that will bring us back needs to include a system that will expedite
pay to doctors you see a patient today you get paid tomorrow along those lines the second
part needs to be insentives for people who want to be doctors free Med school Paid by
Gov for future doctors with high scores on the Mcat free training for existing doctors who wish to become surgeons deep tax cuts for Practicing doctors with thier Own offices
Higher pay for doctors who choose to live in rural areas and practice there Lowered malpractice insurance for doctors with no malpractice suits against them the next part
should be all americans will be covered with no contribution or out of pocket expenses
for conservatives think of it as a HUGE TAX CUT with restrictions of course like
if you dont pay taxes at the end of the year but some how you always end up with 5000
dollar check from the government because you have twenty kids and claim the child tax credit or earned income credit the amount of the services you used that year needs to count
against that Cash so if you get a 5000 dollar check but used 1000 in services your refund will
be 4000 dollars also no coverage for cosmetic surgerys exluding of course those for weight
loss or corrective surgerys that help you live a healthier life of course add to that some
of the policys that he has already suggested like improving the flow of information in
Medicine and those types of improvements to our general infostructure dental and eye care
need to be part of this as well also a few other things that are already in the bill but I cant think of them at the moment

Thats the health care Bill now for Cap and trade Wich sounds horrible but is actually a great Idea but again not the way it has been proposed to be implemented first of all there needs to be a natural carbon emissions deficet imposed on all business's and a natural carbon emissions surplus for every american and also carbon emision ratings for countys and states as a whole those americans wich wish to trade more of thier
carbon emmission credit to companys will have the choice to lower thier carbon dependancy on a yearly review and make more money for themselves based on free market
values Thats CAPITALISM for those who arent following what im suggesting this will cause an explosion of Green economy Jobs and new industries our continuing of these policy will cause us to tax our resources less and there for lower demand for energy production wich in turn will make our light and water bills lower with this said the utility company will also
update thier plants and powerlines to accomadate the lower demand wich creates more
jobs that will be higher paying The next part of Cap and Trade should be regulation to limit
the size of a corporation or businesses to a baseline limit for every county and every state
has anyone ever asked themselves why america has a Subway or Mcdonalds on every street corner in america ? Or How come east and west coast are so populated when there is so much space in the middle of the country to live in ? its simply this thats where the Jobs are if companys were limited by thier they size they would have to make decisions to franchize thier business in or to grow thier trade mark or product and distribute it around the
country of course this whole Idea would kill this country if we allowed companys in this
country to buy carbon emmission credits from other countries that would be exactly the same and actually worse than producing those products sold in america that are produced in other countries finally the trucking business should be exempt from Cap and Trade being that truckers are the only other alternative for delivery of said products to the end user
so there is no point in that it will only serve to increase the cost of freight delivery causing
inflation of all products also Farmers need to be exempt this will only cause our food prices to skyrocket

I can go on a to further explain but I dont think any of you will read most of what I wrote
because it so long well anyhow let the Hate and name calling begin

Dayum man. That's the longest run on sentence in history lol

Told you so I hate punctuation.

Looks like Palin neglected public education in Alaska, lol.

=P

I tried to read it, but i couldn't. It's too hard to guess where I'm supposed to pause. I find myself re-reading lines over and over. If you want someone to pay attention to what your saying, I think you should really consider using punctuation. Otherwise, why post anything at all. Sorry...not trying to be a dick but just being honest. I can guarantee that no one is going to take the time to figure out where there is supposed to be a . ! , or ?.

:x

and spelling shoulda gone to college I'm an ignorant mofo I read alot though wich makes
me uber opnionated . I guess everyone has a vice and a cross to bear.

DJskiggz again your right but since even when properly punctuated, people tend not to understand or listen to reason then what can I gain? I'm simply putting it out there as
therapy for my soul.

lol fair enough. haha

Wrong. Wrong, wrong, wrong. Palin was able to grow her state's economy because oil was $200 a barrel. With that she could very easily just give money to every state's citizen (sounds like socialism to me!). Once oil prices dropped, her state's economy turned to the shitter. So, no, it wouldn't have been a fix for the rest of the USA considering it was false in AK to begin with. Moreover, she didn't "tax rich companies" -- in fact she encouraged windfall taxes for the oil companies (big business in Alaska as I'm sure you know). So, wrong. She absolutely is a neoconservative consider she's regurgitated the same views as many of her neocon friends regarding things like the Rapture, the Jews place in Israel, and homosexuality. Just because you really want Palin to be a centrist doesn't make her so.


John McCain is NOT a super liberal. I have no idea where you're getting that. I may not always agree with him, but I respect him and he's far from a "super liberal". If anything, he's a classic conservative in the mold of Reagan and Bush I -- not in the mold of Bush II and Palin. Where the hell are you getting that Bush cut taxes for anyone but the rich were helpful? The tax cuts that Bush gave were designed to help mostly the rich - they did very little for the middle and lower class.


Giving every American $5000 (or whatever) is contradictory to so much of what the right believes about health care. They claim it's socialism or socialized medicine when the government helps provide health care, but giving cash to Americans (a redistribution of wealth) is socialism defined. Moreover, we have a socialized medical plan already called Medicare that Republicans have been in favor of for a long time -- if we drop the age on it from 65 to 15 -- suddenly it's Socialism as opposed to what it's been for a long time? What a load of crap. It's just the right fearmongering. While you are not exactly of the common school of thought on this, much of the right is this way. And, more importanly, I personally believe giving every American $5000 just isn't enough. I just had a CAT scan and a bunch of tests done and it would cost me $2500 if I didn't have insurance. So it's January and I have these tests and I'm uninsured -- great. Now I'm down to $2500 left for the next 11 months. That probably means I'm going without a few prescriptions and a few doctor's visits.

Universal Health Care would be a major progressive step forward for this country. It's something that is going to happen this year -- whether the right wants it or not. Offering people cash sounds like a nice idea but ultimately it won't enough for most people. Medical expenses are really high -- or people will just ignore their health and pocket the $5000. I think that would happen more often than not, and that's not the point of giving people this money. If they spend it on Serato, drugs, Chipotle, books, political donations -- those are all horrible ways to spend money that was earmarked for health care. I do like some of the ideas you've packaged in there (making medical/nursing school cheaper through government subsidies) for example.


I can't even understand most of this to be honest.


There's no name-calling here. I think you've probably written some intelligent things here and you've explained yourself pretty well as far as I can tell. I don't agree, but that's what makes this country great.

What does everyone think about Mitt Romney? He has a huge success as far as his company goes... IMO proven success is better than a lawyer...

Personally this is my favorite campaign promise from big O and i think the country should put this as a #1 prioritey.........as its what i do for a living, digitizing, procesing, sending and recieving of medical and insurance data lol.....while every other company in the country has been going down the shitter weve been sigining billion dollar contracts left and right......yet i still get paid in peanuts, i havent figured that one out yet but im sure theres a reason

I thought palin fixed her states economy with prayer and healthy living since god himself wanted alaska to suceed and her to save america by leading a choir of angels while riding a white horse with a firey sword driving out all the homosexuals, devil scientists and evil minds out of our country and into the abyss of fiery damnation

I think you fit the nail on the head here harder than you think, americans as a whole are too damn preoccupied with titles and definition, if someone has a good idea and calls it capitolism its a great idea but label it socialism and the same idea is now a horible idea, if a good person with a big hear has a great idea that will help alot of people and hes a democrat its a great idea but label him a republican and now its obviously a hate scheme designed to murder children (you can reverse democrat and republican there it works both ways) if people would just get over themselves and their damn titles and just look at the idea by itself in the big picture wed get alot more accomplished

Mitt's biggest problem is that he looks like your boss. He looks like the kind of guy who asks you to stay late on a Friday and then lays you of on Monday. He looks like a used car salesman.

Politically, I think he's prime for a 2012 run, though.

I think DJ lad is an example of some who watches too much network news.
I'll Break it down am I in favor of Universal Health Care ? > Yes but not in it's present form
Am I in Favor of Cap and trade ? >Yes but not in it's present form

I ask if you dont truly listen to the words that come from the people speaking them themselves but instead choose to listen pundants with thier own power agenda's
for your opnion's does that make you more intelligent or less? If you formed your own
opnion but your repeating verbatim what the politcal class thinks of the issues have you formed your own opinion or has it been formed for you?

If anything I have taken 2 programs that are in the works of becoming law and improved on the ideas in them. As they stand America will be worse off than having nothing at all.
Because too many concessions have been made to push this bill thru , talking about Universal Healthcare.
and far as cap and trade goes forcing the country as a whole to pay taxes to the rest of the
world for our carbon emissions does not sound like an idea that would benefit the health and prosperity of it's citizens.

as far as Mc'cain Palin go the ticket didn't win because there wasn't enough of a difference
between two choices to warrant voting in the republican. otherwise they got pretty close

I suggest everyone vote for a third party to shake up the establishment the problem is the third parties are too often than not more part of the fringe and dont really have suggestions most americans can agree with and if most of us did vote in third party canidates, the
republican and democrat parties will become more fringe partys as a result and continue
the downfall of our country as a whole. We have a lack of original thought in governement
and for the most part a revertance to Old failed policy .That is why Bush Failed That is why Obama is Failing now .The reason why clinton was so successful was because he did very
little while in office and tended to protect himself to keep his office by partnering with
the opposing party when his presidancy was in jepordy. When government does nothing
to change things up or down eventually americans get used to the way things are and we
start to progress again. The problem with Bush and now the problem with Obama is they
are arrogant and set in there views and both were/are working at a break neck speed to push they're extreme policy idea's on the country .

Mitt romney is an establishment canidate no matter who runs against Obama in 2012
the things happening now in the political arena will make it easier for a republican canidate
to win , Unless Obama does a 180 wich he is very good at and wouldn't surprise me at all
you saw signs of this in the state of the union speech suggesting elimination of the capital
invesments tax .

Mitt romney will not be a good choice for republicans and will ensure future loss of power for
the party. Obama represents the same for the democrats because the arguments made
for his policy's are not presented to the american people in a way all can understand .

@M-bezzle Medicare is already BROKE so something there isn't working
and to suggest that as a model for universal helthcare will ensure the failure of the
program.
@Dj lad I dont see that we exactly disagree but Im happy someone read thru all my nonsense and made I very good post about it

@everyone else
I dont see where any of us really disagree with the other I think I can speak for all that we
wish the recession to be over and for all of us to start making some real money and
Serato to Release 2.0 so we can forget about all this Political Garabage for a minute
and rock out like monkeys at the zoo .

when did i say anything about universal coverage or medicare......the point i was going war was about titles, sure medicares broken but if you slapped a new title on it people would back it the same where if you called it by another title those people would be against it......its like how people will bitch if a DJ goes and does a whole set on a laptop but if he changes his title from DJ to Producer, or Live PA everyone thinks hes great

For the record, I watch little to no network news. I watch the NewsHour on PBS and that's about it. I read the Economist on a weekly basis and a few blogs here and there.

ya im into to seasme street pretty seriously too!!!

Sesame street is the shit.

Cooookie! Nom nom nom nom.

I agree with Koeul Benny, there is too much bickering going back and forth for any party to get anything done. We either need a new party or a GREAT leader of character, one who can bring both sides together.

c is for cookie... i want to get a recording of that song

I just read an article about Obama's meeting with the GOP which he promised in his State of the Union speech. I'm happy to see them actually in debate and discussing their differences, finally.

If anyone's interested, 2nd article down.

www.politico.com

Thanks, i'll read it for sure! what an interesting idea... to talk things through instead of just disagreeing all the time...

TAHTS A HORRIBLE IDEA...I DISAGREE

yeah... and your relationship shows what happens if you dont try to improve things or make things better...

...guaranteed pussy??..if obama hooks that up ill vote him in 3 or 4 times lol

acutually thats a bad example when i try to fix things and make them better i typically end up getting hit with large objects and we end up more pissed off than we were before....ive found its better to just bottle it up and pretend the problems arent there lol

sounds like the beginning of life as an alcoholic...

oh the obama topic... i'll be really impressed if he can start working together with the republicans to improve things...

So far over the past year (mainly) and even years before that it seems like an ongoing war between Dems and GOP to get anything done. they call each other names (childish)and try to get a majority so that they can pass whatever (which seems stupid because stuff doesnt get as thought through as when it is necessary to sway people to contribute to your cause)

begining?? how do you think i make it through the day lol

@Mbezzle your right bro everyone has been for medicare but medicare is failing
and some how it doesnt seem right to jump on a sinking ship even if they do change
the name, also the comment at the end with Dj to producer was funny cuz its true.
When swizz Beatz was DJ Swizz he was in his bedroom all of a sudden he starts making Beatz he's a rockstar But when He's Like now I'm a rapper everyone sh*ts on em you just can't win for losing. LOL

@skiggz yeah I heard bout that but really republicans have tasted blood in water
with the election scott brown and really republicans are just going block him
on everything till they gain power democrats just power on thru and lay the ground work for america before they lose they're grip on the country ppl are freaking out
and just voting wildly

Here's a quote I saw today from Michael Steele:

""The Democrats are in effect daring the American people to stop them," Steele said. "They are playing with fire, and they are going to get burned. And we are going to help burn them."
politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com

Should we just make a whole new thread titled "Steele"?

Anyone think Steele's words would have fruitful at this event today?
www.cnn.com

Typical politics Republicans think they have the country in thier favor now so they will
do whatever is necessary to regain power Obama stretched his Hand out finally
and republicans have slapped it back all they want is for our country to fail so they
have power to Mess it up even More.Jayz " everyone should be afraid of what I'm Gonna do next"

To be fair, Michael Steele is an idiot. Even Republicans think he is.

I also LOVED what Obama did today with the Republicans. Fuck it, let's have Question Time like in the UK and Canada. That shit is a) hilarious b) awesome and c) important.

^ Well, Obama always did seem more willing to negoatiate with terrorists.
=P

yeah they go have pizza, watch a lakers game and then rub ("work") it out together...

Obama should've had some beers with the Republicans. More than one beer.

beers? he they should have all gone for the shots out of party cups...

anyone remember when ted kenedy used 2 show up to the senate drunk?
ah the good old days

my theroy is everyone stopped drinking and smoking and they are all poppin pills
and thats why the country is f*cked

when you got a bunch of suicidal sociopaths running the country this is what you get

and how come if we all have to drug test before we take even the shittiest jobs that elected officials dont have to do the same?


im all for drug testing these sons of b*tches maybe they'll legalize the herbage

this isn't the right forum for political talk because the majority of comments are ignorant and lacking of facts. When making claims, one needs to include references to credible news sources, congressional bills, etc... without verifiable facts you're simply venting and spewing hateful bullshit.

the majority of ya'll need to stick to dj-ing before you hurt yourselves....

Fox News is legit, homie.

www.publicpolicypolling.com

Fox News is legitimately biased. Moreover, they hire crazy pundits, they manipulate the news and they count on their viewers to be non-thinkers.

Anyone who counts on Faux News for their information is being told what to think... Republicans have a loyal group of people who vote based on their emotions and fear. Fox News tells people to be afraid, they tell people the sky is falling, and then they have idiots like Palin and Michelle Bachman use their squeeky voices to ramble nonsensically about the latest conspiracy theories.

The American education system has done a piss poor job because people are not taught the fundamentals of critical thought and they end up relying on their emotions and prejudices to make important decisions.

id rather listen palin than pelosi that b*tch is so annoying ...
ummn her and lynn samuels drive me up the wall

love to listen mark thomson tho his show is dope

ed schultz is annoying too he's like across between rush limbaugh and that fat sports caster guy i wanna say madden but that doesnt sound right

hannity is painful to listen to

but glenn beck is too entertaining not to watch

And what about the Dems?

thats because in reality the standard system of american education is not to produce scientists, engineeers and writers, people who need to think critically, the basic educational system of america is designed to teach the rest of the herd, the fast food workers, mechanics, police, army, ect ect (no offence to any of the professions mentioned im not taking away anything from them) but this class of people is basically the groups that follow orders, their told what to do assigned tasks to accomplish and scolded for getting out of line...look at the way our schools are today uniforms, standardised testing, raise your hands to be spoken too, answers come from this book so what this book says is right ect ect ect

reps do based on fear and emotion while dems vote based on facts and information they believe they know (wether that information is right or not isnt important its the belief that their making an educated choice)

...exactly... republicans count on the fact that they can convince people to vote against their best interests. All politicians try to tap into people's emotions; but republicans specialize in using fear to manipulate people.

example: Climate Change

Democara 1: There was a national scientific report that says glaciers are melting and the current temps are the highest ever recorded, these numbers correlate with the begining of mans use of fossil fuels, carbon emmissions need to be cut, this candadate is for that im voting for him

Democrat #2: I was having lunch with #1 and he said the glaciers are melting, and its because of man, theres a report to prove it voting for who hes voting for

Republican #1: God wants the US to be a world leader so we shouldnt cut emmissions because they help us be a world leader, besides if we cut emmissions islamic extrrmists will be able to come into our homes and kill our children, Im voting for the one whos against cutting emmissions and is for letting me keep a bazooka in my trunk to prevent this.

Republican #2: Did he just say islamic people will someonesgonna come in my home NOONES COMMIN IN MY HOME..Im voting with him

People who have a problem with Pelosi often feel that way because they are sexist and can't stand that a woman is in that position. Pelosi is far more accomplished and intelligent than Palin will EVER be...

Pailin is trailer trash and the republican leadership deals with her because she is a puppet and can excite her base.

+111

+1

...non-thinkers are easier to control... and the push towards standardized testing is misguided... how is a child's performance on a test taken on one day indicate anything about how that child can make important decisions or process complex information

Thats retarded...

IMO about climate change... if everything stayed the same, we wouldnt have seasons. Cars didnt exist a million years ago, so what stopped the ice age back then? cars cause pollution, but I dont see them melting ice burgs or causing global climate change. I see it just like the four seasons. as the earth turns and goes around the sun and the moon goes around the earth the earths axis shifts causing more exposure to certain parts that may typically colder.

here locally i thnk there is a 7 year rotation... example usually February isn't above 20 degrees. this year we are in the high 30's... it alternates every 7 years...

IMO Global Climate Change is bull shit created to make money, and a scare tactic all of its own

you dont think "green house gasses" put out by cars and other fossil fuel burning facilities contribute to the warming of our planet?

not enough... theres a new show that Jesse Ventura does... its about stuff like this. you should find the episode on global climate change.

seriously, its a money maker. why else would Al Gore push it so hard and live in a ridiculously large house that wastes all kinds of natural gas and electricity.

I'm all for reduce reuse and recycling and lessening my carbon foot print, but when it comes to GCC, i say its a joke and people trying to get richer.

yes because i want Jesse The Body Ventura to be my main source for scientific information

I also think that it is great what Honda is doing to try to make hydrogen powered vehicles, and lessening the polution.

I live in an area surrounded by mountains. it turns into a bowl and the sky turns very disgusting often... I think it is bad to waste and polute

dont forget the Governor title in the beginning... just watch though.. he goes after the gacts

im so totally for anternate energys, this is going to sound nuts but i have real bad panic attacks sometimes when im ridin round the city because i look around and i know that most of the energy we use comes from nonrenewable resources, and i think how many more people daily are consuming these resources (ie: china) and how much energy the shit were doing these days takes.....for example the energy requirments of every family owning a 54 inch plazma\lcd flat screen high def tv....knowing that peak oil is either here or right around the corner it damn near handicaps me knowing it could run out....i know theres other ways t generat power but the logic dosent always take.....its not even an enviromental thing its that i know how utterly dependant i am on this power....like im breaking out in a sweat just typing it lol....i REALLY need to see a Dr about this im positive i can get some good stuff outta it LEGIT

+1 LOL

GACTS? LOL oh yeah, those are grimy pseudo-facts republicans like to use.... gacts.... I'm going to submit that to the folks at Webster's Dictionary so they can include that in next year's edition

I sure i'm not the only one... but i hate those trucks with huge wheels that spew out clouds of black exhaust for a 1/4 mile after getting on the freeway...

Nope just hate her voice

I like Palin Cuz i dont have to listen to what she has to say I can just stare at her tits

I say the thinkers are easier to control because they naturally overthink every process

They are more predictable

how is being able to predict what someone does make them easier to control over someone who just does what their told?

This is one of the dumbest things I've ever read...ever. Amazing!

I'm sure we're contributing to the climate change somewhat, but the damage we are causing is microscopic compared to what is really happenning naturally by the earth's natural rotation cycle. If you've taken astronomy you will find out that the polar ice caps melting is inevitable. The earth doesnt rotate in just a horizontal axis. Like it or not, our climate is not supposed to stay the same. The earth is rotating on a rotational axis. Think of it like a rotating top tilted to it's side, i think it's every 20,000 years or so, the earth completes a full cycle known as a wobble. As we get closer and closer to the end of the cycle, certain parts of the earth are more closely exposed to the sun which cause changes in temperature and yes, global warming. Also, the moon is slowly moving away from the earth, about 4 centermeters a year. Think of what that's doing.

that sounds predictably stupid... someone who is an intelligent thinker can quickly assess a situation and know how much time, effort and brain power to devote to something... dummies just react on emotion or rely on loud mouths to tell them what to think...

so your saying dubstep is responsible for global warming?

lol

It's so naive to hold Democrats on some holy mountain, and then bash Republicans after. Let's be honest with ourselves here, both of the parties have their fucked up little group that fuck shit up for everyone. So fuck them both!

If I had made my comments and predicted what your reaction would be
would you have still had the same reaction ?

or if I had simply agreed with you would that have proven your influence over me?

how about this if I told you the truth was Both thinkers and Non thinkers
are easliy influenced and easliy controlled because they both are
stubbornly adamit to thier form of thinking would that ring true or is it Just
another form of B/S comming from me ?

We're all hypnotized!

+1 djSkiggs

probably the only scientificly correct analysis I've seen thus far



Less interference is better overall. I know people tend to believe that we need to fix this or need to fix that but for the most part Communitys grow and prosper the most
when they know the rules follow them , allowed to find ways around the road blocks
if things constanly change there is a natural fear of progress because
people dont want to operate out side of the law because of the consequences.

Your theories on global warming ignore the damage we've caused and continue to cause to the ozone layer. Yes it's true that climate naturally changes over the course of the earths journey through space...but as we chip away at the earth's protective layer, more of the suns harmful rays get through and do damage that isn't a part of the natural course of things.

It's not just cars and factories causing this pollution either. The way we raise cows now adays, feeding them corn and stacking them on top of each other...the methane that they give off is doing some serious damage too.

The great thing about predictions is that some of the time, you end up being right. I predict that this thread is going to go on and the ignorant, racist, sexist, and biased comments are going to continue....

Everyone has common motivations... regardless of their ability to think critically. And everyone is controlled...to some extent...

For the most part I believe people just want to live thier lives and dont really find themselves in the Thinker Over NoN thinker categories

it's only the Young and Naive or The Old and set in thier ways
that seem to fall in these categories

People raising families with the ability to pay for and fund the activitys they
wish to pursue Could careless wether the world is in turmoil

the problem is now this is starting to affect the majority of people in the country
and they are starting to pay attention and naturaly they want to go back to where they
were comfortable

not at all, nonthinkers by definition dont think they have someone to think for them so naturally the person doing the thinking is going to have a harder time predicting the actions of the person who makes his own decessions vs the person hes making decessions for, if the nonthinker does something other than what the person tellin him what to do then at that point he is thinking for himself and becomes a thinker

Thank you for agreeing with Me

Now if we could only get you to stop generalizing the populous as ignorant
you may have some hope

shit i could have told you that before the thread started, welcome to the forum LOL.....though i dont think ive seen any racist comments in here yet (though i may have missed it)

lol +1

Sorry...the populous is ignorant. To believe anything else is naive. That doesn't mean everyone is ignorant, but in this country...the majority is absolutely ignorant.

+1 there too...tie game

We're all fucked up to some extent.

+1

...it takes education to become un-ignorant... which is an area our nation has been failing...



I think you're ignorant to assume that I would have hope if I didn't believe much of the populous was ignorant. One only has to observe our culture and have a rudimentary knowledge of human history to know how people are...

Semantics .. and obvious

in a Marrige the stronger personality always takes the lead in the marriage
but for a marriage to work there can't be 2 strong leaders completely opposed to
eachother it simply wont work 1 always has to be submissive to the other

the same in government we elect people so we may be able to live our daily lives
without worry when we are thrown into turmoil we suddenly pay attention
and have to catch up on the working of our system it's not that a Majority
of the country is Ignorant they are Just catching up .

Some may say we have been too prosperous for too long others that we are arrogant

I believe we have lost control because our system of government no longer
represents us and has become too centralized.

tie my ass... I'm winning!!!! LOL

Do you have any scientific proof to back up this theory?

Who is "we" and "us"? When has the government ever represented the best interests of ALL Americans? It never has...

Certain groups of Americans are pissed because "their" America is not as good as "they" think it used to be. These are the same people who let loud mouthed pundits get them to vote against their interests and to protest things they know nothing about.

Life isn't supposed to be "without worry." Worry and stress are human emotions that are meant to keep us alert and alive. Certain groups of people are more alert now. They want to get back to their comfort zone...and they want people to blame. Too bad their comfort zone came at the expense of other groups of people....

The only thing constant about life is that things change.... you either have to be part of the change, adapt to the change, or stomp your feet and get mad at the change...

sure it has, there was a 2 hour period right after the end of the revolutionary war where the govenrment and all 4000 citizens were on the same page

@sugarcut


To assume there is a contest is to assume there will be a Prize

since none exisits and nothing can come from our banter aren't we only
just having conversation?

I naturaly assume that someone unEducated can become Educated and seek thier
own opnions

You assume that the unEducated are the reason for your problems and wish
to some how controll them so they maybe educated but agree with you

I seek no control over individuals only that who ever maybe reading my posts
may somehow gain something from my knowledge and apply it to thier
personal experience

and unlike you I am not of the opnion that simply because people dont agree with me
they are bigots, racists , unintelligent , or otherwise undesirable simply because
our opninions dont mesh

@ KoeulBenny... you take yourself way to seriously... and for someone with such poor command of the English language, you shouldn't.

In the begining of our constitution the powers that be enumerated powers to be seperate but equal and said as thus that certain powers they shall not have control over

time out theres no prize.....i thought the winner gets cookies....if theres no cookies then fuck this you win your right

i miss the point of that post in context with the quote it went with....i think you 2 are barking up 2 seperate trees

LOL...

@sugarcut


Im sorry that my english is not proper I am not a classicly educated person

But that does not mean that my points are not valid or hold less merrit than the opnions
of the next man

@Bezzle
My point was that the first years of our republic were a point in time in wich our government did represent us and ever since governement has sought greater power
to control us

It's not my theory. It's in "The Montreal Protocol on Substances that Deplete the Ozone Layer" which was signed by governments all over the world, including the US. It's pretty commonly accepted by scientists. The only people who don't accept it are republicans...but they don't disagree based on competing science...they just don't want industry to be adversely affected by restrictions.

The global warming debate isn't science vs. science...it's science vs. industry.

Your points aren't invalid because you lack the ability to convey them properly...but you come off as thinking you're way more educated and enlightened than you actually are.

@Michael basic

Thank you

Watchwww.youtube.com

Michael, that's a treaty signed by politicians, that doesn't really prove much. There are hundreds of scientist, climatologist, and meteroligist, etc who dont agree that we are contributing to global warming on the scale that the media, and goverment is shoving down our throats. A lot of them are skeptical because there isn't really solid scientific evidence or testing that proves we are actually the cause of the problem. Historically, our planet has gone through a number of warm and cold cycles way before the world became industrialized.

whats funney is people say theres no scientific evidence to support we are causing it but their scientific evidence against it is....shit like this just happens sometimes, its been hot before

star & Buc

Man that was funny

That's bullshit Skiggz. Facts are facts...since the Montreal protocol was enacted, Ozone depletion has reversed by hard, measurable numbers.

It's not bullshit, it's true. There is no scientific evidence that says enhanced greenhouse effects from humans will result in a catastrophe. I'm not saying that you are all wrong, all I am saying is it's a ideology that should be more tested, debated, and studied. I can't find the overwhelming scientific evidence that shows we are doomed. The world has gone through it's warm cycles and cold cylces before, and there are a number of theories that can explain why. The fact is, there is a lot of evidence that challenge the ideology and there are hundreds of scientist (who are not affliated with the movement), who are very skeptical.

Why are you talking about hot and cold Skiggz...do you not understand what Ozone Depletion is, or are you just ignoring the entirety of my post for the sake of being able to respond?

Stop trying to be a smart ass. You understand exactly what I am saying.

the fact is there have been many scientists disproven as frauds who argue
in favor of said phenom

My point would be that logically even if global warming is myth that technologies created to combat said threat are Overall beneficial to society in genral .

can everyone agree?

I'm not trying to be a smart ass. I'm telling you. Point blank. While the global climate changes naturally, OZONE DEPLETION, which is an entirely different thing, is caused by us...and there are hard numbers to back it up. OZONE DEPLETION, coupled with global warming, whether naturally occurring or otherwise, absolutely WILL lead to disaster. The scientifically proven reasons for this are vast. From the most obviously, like the higher rate of skin cancer, to the least, like how mosquiteos and other disease spreading insects will migrate when the climate of their natural habitat is unsuitable, and will spread disease to new places and new populations of human and animal.

The hard science is out there...and the only people who are refuting it are industrialists and the people who work for them.

The anti-global warming movement sounds strangely familiar to the tobacco industries answer to smoking being bad for you. Pretty much every doctor but the ten they paid agreed smoking was bad. Now there are tens of thousands of scientist worldwide with an overwhelming amount of data showing similar results but theres a couple hundred(being veeeerrrrrry generous) paid for by the industries of oil, coal, chemical, christians, etc. Wait! You guys are right smoking really isn't bad for you.

I'm sure DuPont has my best interest at heart.

Same shit, different toilet.

Skiggz...you truly are one of the most ignorant people I've had the honor of conversing with.

Truly amazing.

I agree, I support any advancement in technology as long as it's more efficient, cheaper, etc. It's just my opinion that the world is being led to believe something that isn't entirely true.

Interesting oxymoron there, you think i'm ignorant, yet you are honored to conversate with me, hmmm lol...

Insert the word "Ozone Depletion" into my last few post instead of "global warming". The same facts apply. It is not a scientific fact, it is a theory published back in the 70's, tied together with an idea that this could explain why we have skin cancer. The media took hold of it and here we are.

Skiggz I get it

But let me Use a lil Pop culture Pyschology on this one

In the movie Men in Black Will smith overly excited shoots his wepon at
the Bug as he gets away with the universe and the combo goes like this

tommy lee 2 will what you doing??
Will 2 Tommy lee MAN!!!! Your letting him get away we got to do SoMETHING!!!
Tommy Lee 2 Will Listen KID there is always an invation or attack pending
the only reason people are able to live thier lives normal is because they dont know
about
Will >BUT Hes going to get away!
tommy lee Nope we got his ship now lets see if we can track down where he maybe
able to find another

now lets equate this to Global warming

We have the liberal left who like Will is freaking out saying something has to be done
NOW!

And we the Conservative right who says its False lets do nothing it is just part of a cycle

is'nt it wiser to be more like tommy lee in this situation and say

Ok we got a Problem but let's not freakout lets work tword a better solution
We've Identified the threat but now we have to fix this

I am in full support to have advancement in technology. That's all great. But the problem I have is that legislation is being pushed through on what i think is either a lie, or a huge stretch of the truth. There's a general consensus of people out there who blindly believe that it is absolute FACT that enhanced levels CO2 emissions (caused by humans) are the reasons we have problems with the ozone layer, melting the ice caps, and warming the planet. That is a lie.

I am getting a dual degree one of them being in environmental science and have studied this quite a bit. I would not consider myself an expert but I feel confident in talking about this issue.

The problem is that the scale of this theory is really difficult to get your head around but lets look at it from a different angle. The northwest passage is for the first time in nautical history opening up. Russia planted a flag on the sea floor up there staking claim to it. Canada is building a the northern most military base in the world staking claim to it. We are petitioning the court and all three countries are probably going to end up in a legal dispute over who controls it. These countries would not be investing in this if next year things are going to get back to normal. So the globe is warming.

Now, the question is, are we causing it? It is hard to argue against the direct correlation of the rise in CO2 levels and the rise in average temps. There is sooooo much supporting evidence I dont even know where to begin but I can tell you its there. I have studied it.

The theory that it is some big money making scam is ridiculous and insulting to thousands of honest scientists who have devoted their lives to their research. For people to spend a couple of hours a night watching FOX news and they think they have it all figured out is laughable until it becomes evident that they are having an impact. Back to the money scam thing, what do you think the average researcher make compared to someone on the tele?

If anyone wants to discuss facts. I will be more than happy to try and help understand both sides arguments. Just be warned these posts could turn into books.

skiggs

I would say that those of us without an ideology are in constant search of an ideology
and when we find said ideology we project thus on all seeking to convert those
who already have a strong moral fortetudes

I guess the moral is when electing a leader we must first consider thier beliefs to be inline with our own

That's pretty much what I did. Too bad I cant say the same for congress.

@ninjaty

Ok lets argue Facts But lets asume that you are correct.

we will take the example of the effects of going green on just one product
the Light Bulb .

can we agree that most legislation is aimed at industry since they are greater
polluters than the average house Hold? ok we agree

Ok seeing that most legislation is aimed @ industry we will take the three technologies
that we have produced for creating light an essential tool for everyone in modern history

first we have the edison light bulb > we have deemed this too polluting to the enviroment to continue its production
Let's not get into an argument over who really invented the light bulb it's irelevent


second we have the compact florcent light wich is a green option > easily researchable the process that makes this Bulb currently pollutes the earth more than the production
of an edison bulb not including the destruction of these which realease more harmful
chemicals into the enviroment

and third we have the Led light > research has concluded that this is the less pollutant
option among the three and uses less power than any other lighting option
also with advances in science we are now able to produce this light to the consumer
at a more reasonable price

so Based on this information we can only conclude that the Led is the only green option
correct?

Now lets follow this Logic as it pertains to us and our power grid

Why do most transformer failures happen at night ?
answer because the cut in electricty from us turning off most of our lights overloads
our transformers and causes the power failure

what does the power company do when a sector of the grid goes down ?
answer it diverts the power to another grid while they perform repairs to bring the
down sector back to life.

Now why is all this Important?

Honestly not sure what you're getting at, but your premise is false.

Transformer failure does not happen most at night, and the major cause is not turning off lights.

According to a study by HSB, a company who insures everything from homes to shopping malls against, among other things, power failure, the following are the causes of the majority of transformer failure.

Lightening Surges (about 30%)
Line surges and external short circuits (this would not include turning off lights, this would be power surges where undue stress would be put on the transformer due to power out) (13%)
Poor Workmanship (10%)
Deterioration of insulation (10%)
Overloading (7%) (this might include what you're talking about)
Moisture (7%)
Inadequate maintenance (7%)
Sabotage (2.5%)
All others (13.5%)

Not sure where you're going with this argument you're about to present...but recheck your facts before you proceed. Maybe cite a reference.

@ michael basic

I read that too and also few others that state that power failures are mostly
caused by weather related instances

I dissmissed most of this research because if it could be proven that the light company
is responsible for most power failures then, they would be liable for any destruction
of property connected to the grid when failure happened

good work in researching some of the facts on power failures

although i was specificly talking about overload on transformers
due to decrease of usage in populated areas, wich is an area of study wich is currently being researched and not much info out there on the subject because the push is
generaly on going green not effects of green on our infostructure

here is a wiki on powerfailures due to increased demand also
en.wikipedia.org

Still don't understand your point. Rolling blackouts are a failsafe to avoid real power failures due to loads that the electric company can't handle. I get that, and it's sort of obvious. This other thing you're talking about...transformers failing because too many people are turning off the lights? I can't find anything about this anywhere...and as someone who has an A+ certification...I know my shit when it comes to electronics...I'd have to see some real indepth studies with lots of numbers for me to believe that the leading cause of transformer failure is too many people turning out the lights.

I don't buy it...

That aside, what was the point of your post?

here is a website for information on the power grid and its workings

en.allexperts.com

My point is in relation to national legislation of green tecnologies and the effects
of using less power and the strain it may cause to our current electrical system?

if we currently use a light bulb that needs more energy to work and switch to one
that uses over 50% less energy we can naturally assume that this will cause a surge
to our powerlines correct?

if we have determined that a surge can cause transformer failure to a sector in
the power grid
and that using significantly less energy can cause a surge

then we can assume that green tecnologies may cause blackouts.
if legislation forces us to convert to green power sources

in an extreme doomsday scenerio this means that if we reduced our usage by a significant enough amount we could cause permant damage to our system
if this all happened in one week we could see in theory the collapose of our entire
society not to inlcude the possability of catastrophic power failure causing our
nuclear power plants to explode or our hydro electric plants to collapase
currently the gateways on dams are not sufficient enough to allow enough
water to be released to keep the dams from overfilling if the hydro electric
turbines were all to cease at the same time


Because there is not enough research on the effects of going green on our society
is reason enough not to pursue this until there is enough solid eveidence that we can
go green and not destroy ourselves in the process

we can already see the effects on our sewage systems in idaho from green tecnologies being used in the citys sewage system because there is not enough water
in the system to keep debris flowing to its end point because low flush toilets
dont deliver enough water to our high flow sewage infastructure

www.allbusiness.com

Can this be wide spread if enough low flow toilets are introduced to a system


enough

I have a lot I want to say about all this but I am dog tired right now and about to hit the hay. I do want to be a part of this particular conversation. I hope it has not lost its essence by tomorrow. Good night.

also if the same way we saw low flush toilets being implement to our system is applied
to light bulbs and our electrical grid can we assume that there will be extreme consequence if we dont slow down in this go ultra green push?

I say yes lets step back analyze make an informed decision and make the switch when
we are ready not jump head first into unknown territory simply because we are being pushed by fear mongerers who say the planet will self destruct in 5 years if something is'nt done now.

We all agree that conservation and preservation are good but simply dont have the information necessary to make the switch over to extreme conservation and preservation.

interesting

WOW HOLY SHIT, there is soooooooooo much assumption and limited view in that senario that its scary

@mbezzle

It's a theory Bezzle My point is more scientific discovery is needed not less
and its sooooo much more scarier that your limited view Gives you panic attacks

Get help brother thats not natural

hows my view limited on the subject

are you somehow under the impression that oil and coal are going to be around forever??

and before you get into the alternate energys if you acutually read the post you would notice i said YES I REALISE alternate energys and the panic attacks are illogical....theres a reason they make perscription drugs for these cases, unwarrented panic attacks are a ligitamate medical situation genius

M-bezzle
no need to get to get defensive my post had nothing to do with oil and coal
I simply therorized the potential threats on our system

and gave you an example of how extreme conservation at the nez perce
facility created problems with their sewers

Im sure this is'nt the first or only example of how low flush tiolets have
caused infrastructure breakdowns in the system

But the push is so strong in favor of green products that there is literally a million
web pages before there is 1 substant story about the ultra low flush and
how it coralates to our high flow watershed the evedence is there it's just being buried

most of the information against low flush has been they dont get the waste out of your
bowl and I dont see how thats a valid point against not having them since
the improvement will cut down on the expenses of your city and state

But if we legislate these changes and dont make scientific inquries
into the effects on our society then Brace yourselves for breakdowns
in our way of Living.

WOW first ever stutter in a post

hehehe -chuckling to self-