Hi again!

First let me say what I'd like to do so you get a better idea of my needs: I'd like to scratch video (with VSL) over the visuals my girlfriend is doing on her laptop. We don't need to do a lot: simple fading and luma keying between the two laptops should be enough.

I know the Edirol V4 & 8 can mix composite, but I'm wondering if there is something waaaaaaay cheaper. 1k is still a lot ;-)

Since vga or dvi mixing seems to be even a whole different league, we would go out of the laptops with composite.

If anyone knows of a solution, please let me know!

Greetz,
NLS

hmmm,

Edirol V-1 ( is 200EUR. cheaper around 899EUR.)
Numark AVM-02 (also audio-mixer, 799EUR.)

I think Edirol have the cheapest but still good quality mixers, other brands like panasonic etc. are way more expensive.

See you tomorrow

What program is your girlfriend running? Have you looked at Livid Union? Its a software based mixer. Price is around $250 and offers some cool effects. The only other thing you would need is something to input your signal to her computer.

I almost forgot...I believe it accepts up to 4 inputs so you could later incorporate live feeds.

Well she is mainly running Modul8 but has Resolume3 as well. I know Modul8 accepts live feed. However I wouldn't know how to input my signal in hers (I AM TALKING ABOUT VIDEO SIGNALS INTO HER COMPUTER ;-). Also I wonder if that wouldn't induce extra latency. Since i would be scratching vids over her visuals, low latency is a key priority.

Edirol V1 is pretty cheap and decent, but doesn't give a lot of options on layering the images. Software would give more options, but you need a analog-to-digital converter, fast laptop and good software.

You could use something like the Canopus ADVC55 desktop.grassvalley.com to get the output from your computer to whatever software your girlfriend is using. It has a bit of a latency though and it would be an issue with av stuff like scratching. Haven't tested it in this way so can't say for sure if it would be noticeable.

I've read good things about this converter www.theimagingsource.com Heard it's almost zero latency. Haven't tried it though so I can't say for sure.

Thanks Mansteri, I also found this: www.asianproducts.com for 20$ on ebay. From what I've read on the Modul8 forum it has very low latency. If it doesn't work well... at that price it's not such a loss...

I'll keep you updated.

UPDATE!

Ok, got the video grabber today and did some tests. So far it seems to good to be true.
There is some latency but I can live with it. It's about 1-2 frames. Keep in mind that my girfriend has a 2,8hz unibody MBP. We first forgot to use her better GPU and then delay was a little higher. So I guess with lower spec laptop this would get worse.

One little catch, you'll need extra software to get the grabber recognized by your mac: Videoglide www.echofx.com , costs 30$

So basically for all the vdj's who want to mix vids without too much 'lipsync' (when the delay is more obvious) or who want to scratch over visuals, I would highly recommend this 50$ thingy. Google or ebay: Video Capture EasyCAP DC60+ v3.1B
Make sure it is the DC60+ with v.3.1, I've read that the earlier version doesn't work for mac.

Oh yeah, we tested this with Modul8 2.5.8 and it works. We haven't had time to check it with Resolume Avenue. I guess it will work with any software that accepts live video feed but of course I'm not sure...

@Rebelguy: thanks a lot for taking me in the direction of the software mixer route ;-) I wouldn't have thought of it myself!

Greetz,
NLS

hey NLS666.. nice setup .. basically you are using the video output from serato and going into the video grabber? Is your master output coming from Modul 8? Just curious because I'm looking to do the same. Thanks!- Joe

Yes VSL output goes into Modul8 and the Modul8 output goes to the screen. But, we've got best of both worlds:

My VSL signal goes first to a PCTV converter www.centralpoint.nl . This splits the signal into vga and svideo. From there I have one end that goes into a vga switch and another that goes 'svideo' to the grabber into Modul8. My girfriends output goes back to the switch as well.

This way, we can choose between having VSL thru Modul8 (with slight delay of VSL) OR having VSL straight to the beamer (no delay). In fact from the switch we go to a vga splitter allowing us to have multiple projectors connected.

Since we weren't sure of the whole setup, we used low budget switches/splitters/converter. Alltogher it was about 140€. However it all works very well!
We have our first live gig tonight so we will be able to check how everything works out with the quality of the projections. On tft screens it looks very good allready... VSL through Modul8 is a little degraded but still more than usable.

Greetz,
NLS

thank you for the in depth response. I would like to hear the outcome of your first live gig! Modul8 is a beast on its own.. and incorporating vsl into it.. makes it just that much more perfect.

Well the show went fine, not too much crowd but everyone appreciated what we did.

For the technical side: everything works as it should be. VSL into M8 is indeed a near perfect match. Once again, don't expect it to be fully realtime, there is a very small delay. But very workable.
The hard switch does his job but since it is a low budget model the screen goes black for about a second when switching. For us it wasn't a big deal because we only switched two or three times on the whole night.

www.whitespace.bz

just takin the piss!

NSL... how do you get Modul8 to recognize the video signal from the usb instead of the internal MAC cam?

Thank you,
Joe

got it NLS... wow.. pretty cool! The possibilities are endless. However, I'm a bit concerned with the quality of the picture. Which compression are you using in modul8?

Hey Joe,
I think we choose "none" or 'PhotoJpeg" (since M8 works very well with Photojpeg) but I'm not sure which one of the two.
We quickly tried a couple of compressions and I didn't have the impression that they changed a lot. What did make a big difference was changing "Video Buffer Precision".

Also in the settings for the USB video signal we had to make some adjustments to saturation/contrast/brightness to make the picture better. It looked allright at the end.

Have fun!

Hey again NLS.. what are you using for the output coming from the Modul 8 laptop?

Not really sure what you mean. We go out with the mini display port to VGA adapter.

Which device are you using from the vga adapter to get the video signal to your projection screen?

Hehe, sorry if it seems as I'm making fun of you, but it is quite funny though...

We basically use two things: one is called a vga cable, and the other is called a projector or beamer.

;-)

Oh, ok, maybe you were reffering to the switch I mentioned somewhere above. Sorry, it has been a long time since I wrote these comments.

This is it:
www.sunelectronics.gr

Hope this was what you were looking for. Keep in mind that this is what is called a "hard switch" and you'll have a fraction of a second black/distorted screen while switching.

Hey NLS.. first, thanks for responding. I understand you are using the hard switch for the output coming from VSL. From there, you are going into the SVideo Grabber into Modul 8. Are you using another hard switch for the output coming from the Modul 8 computer?

Ah now I understand! (I think)

The VSL-VGA output goes first into the PCTV converter.
This converter comes with a handy little cable that takes the vga in from the VSL laptop and splits it in two: 1 going into the converter and 2 coming out the converter ready to go to a monitor).
So from the converter I go svideo to the videograbber (to the M8 laptop) AND with the "monitor" side of the vga splitcable I go to the hardswitch.

I hope it makes more sense now.

I managed to find the manual for the converter: www.logingelectronics.com.mk
On page 4 you'll see the "Y" cable going from the PC to the converter and to the monitor.
Greetz,
hit me up if you need anything else!

Hey NLS thanks for all of your help. I have everything running, except for Modul8 recognizing videoglide as the video source. I see it in the list in Modul8, but it is not highlighted and I cannot select it. Any suggestions?

I forgot to mention that I am getting the video signal from serato into videoglide.. but I am unable to select videoglide as the source in Modul8

How did you do that , because i have te problem, that modul8 automaticly takes my internal mac cam, and i want the input video from my external cam, who is connected with firewire

I don't have modul8 here with me. But I guess it's somewhere in the settings. Video/capture thingie or something like that.

You need to install this:

webcam-osx.sourceforge.net

To integrate the external cam into software, u need to drag one of the files into your quicktime library (i think, instructions are there with the download - not at home now so can't verify for sure)

This does work, though, I used it to integrate a webcam into Camtwist. Without it, Camtwist only recognizes the iSight camera

and if you use a dv camera with firewire connection?

I only used USB, I would guess it's a similar process?

If I remember correctly I used macam on my old powermac G5 to get my Sony moviecam working with Skype through firewire. So I guess it should do ok.

Hi, Im trying same stuff and Im having sema problem, VideoGlide is greyed out in the video souce capture on modul8 preferences

Any help
JazzT

I'm sorry but I don't have Modul8 anymore so I can't check it out. Hope you get it sorted out...

ok, thanks anyway

JazzT

Got it, I just have to put to 640 x 480 capture size in VideoGlide rec setting

ME now has Syphon support. which can be seen in Modul8
this works on one computer with quartz...

and i think there might be a network solution as well with quartz
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